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CNN Live Today
Interview with Olivia Bosch
Aired September 20, 2002 - 13:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: With all the talk about weapons inspections and whether Saddam Hussein has anything to hide, we turn now to a former weapons inspector who has been there on the ground there in Iraq. Olivia Bosch is now a visiting fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.
Good to have you with us, Ms. Bosch.
OLIVIA BOSCH, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Hello.
O'BRIEN: First of all, Iraq in announcing it would allow these inspections to resume without conditions. Do you take that at face value, or do you see it as a ruse?
BOSCH: Well, the statement was not unexpected and falls within the familiar pattern that we have seen over the years. But when the threat of use of military force is imminent, the Iraqi regime tends to make more cooperative statements and with reference to allowing inspectors in on the ground. So, here is an opportunity for the inspections to resume again and on an unconditional basis.
I think what's important, too -- and if they are to be effective -- that in effect, we have a three-track process that seems to be rather interrelated. One is the resumption of the inspection process. Hans Blix has already put into place -- or made some initial talks with the Iraqis on that, hoping, in fact as was reported here, that by the 15th of October that there would be an advanced team to begin doing some work.
The second part of this three-track process is, of course, what we heard just before the U.N. diplomatic activity in terms of building a resolution, if only at least to reaffirm the Security Council Resolution 687.
And the third track, which has been important in the past, is the threat of use of military force and the continued pressure of the military presence that's currently in the Middle East.
O'BRIEN: Ms. Bosch, so the question remains: Is it a ruse?
BOSCH: Well, I think he has been given what isn't, in the analogy in a legal sense, a letter before action. And if the view here is, if regime survival is his main goal, if that is his end result, then he may see that he might, at this time, have no choice but to comply with the inspections coming in and fulfilling all of the resolutions for 687. He has no choice now but to cooperate.
O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about cooperation for just a moment. You have been there on the ground.
BOSCH: Right.
O'BRIEN: And the inspectors are oftentimes put in completely untenable situations, literally outgunned by the people that you are charted to inspect. If you were orchestrating this latest round of inspections, if they are to occur, what would you do to make it possible to do something that is real and not just a complete show and an opportunity for Saddam Hussein to just bide some time?
BOSCH: Well, it's important, as mentioned before, that there is a continued military presence and a threat of military force, so that he knows that something will happen to him.
The U.N. inspectors will be very aware of the various ruses that they have used over the seven years during the UNSCOM period.
O'BRIEN: All right...
BOSCH: Many of the denial of access to sites were, of course, journalistically appealing, and this time, I would expect that you will not see what we traditionally have seen in terms of the cat and mouse. He can't be seen to be reported to do that, if he is going to allow for unconditional access.
O'BRIEN: Well, just...
BOSCH: And therefore, the type of ruses...
O'BRIEN: Can you -- Ms. Bosch...
BOSCH: ...he would do, would be in the negotiations...
O'BRIEN: I know this is a big question, but I...
(CROSSTALK)
BOSCH: ... inspections on the ground.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about doing your job there? It's a big country, uncooperative hosts, if you will, and really, in many ways they suspect you of being spies. How can you really do the job given that whole atmosphere?
BOSCH: Over the seven years, as I said, it has been -- the journalistically appealing denial of access that we have seen, and they -- those were at various moments more subtle is the kind of obfuscation and tales, such as what Ralph Akais (ph) had mentioned in terms of the accounts they give as being similar to the Arabian tales of the 1001 nights.
When the -- or assuming that they do go in again, he cannot be shown to physically deny them, because that would be a rather obvious condition on which there may be, if a U.N. resolution comes in, there may be the resort to some form of military operation. Therefore, if there is going to be any kind of so-called un-cooperation, which required an elasticity in terms of definition. There is lot of -- there is some political nuance. At times, there may be some face- saving required for both inspections and the Iraqi regime.
O'BRIEN: Olivia Bosch is a former U.N. weapons inspector.
BOSCH: It will be unclear.
O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
BOSCH: OK.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate your time.
BOSCH: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired September 20, 2002 - 13:12 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: With all the talk about weapons inspections and whether Saddam Hussein has anything to hide, we turn now to a former weapons inspector who has been there on the ground there in Iraq. Olivia Bosch is now a visiting fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.
Good to have you with us, Ms. Bosch.
OLIVIA BOSCH, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Hello.
O'BRIEN: First of all, Iraq in announcing it would allow these inspections to resume without conditions. Do you take that at face value, or do you see it as a ruse?
BOSCH: Well, the statement was not unexpected and falls within the familiar pattern that we have seen over the years. But when the threat of use of military force is imminent, the Iraqi regime tends to make more cooperative statements and with reference to allowing inspectors in on the ground. So, here is an opportunity for the inspections to resume again and on an unconditional basis.
I think what's important, too -- and if they are to be effective -- that in effect, we have a three-track process that seems to be rather interrelated. One is the resumption of the inspection process. Hans Blix has already put into place -- or made some initial talks with the Iraqis on that, hoping, in fact as was reported here, that by the 15th of October that there would be an advanced team to begin doing some work.
The second part of this three-track process is, of course, what we heard just before the U.N. diplomatic activity in terms of building a resolution, if only at least to reaffirm the Security Council Resolution 687.
And the third track, which has been important in the past, is the threat of use of military force and the continued pressure of the military presence that's currently in the Middle East.
O'BRIEN: Ms. Bosch, so the question remains: Is it a ruse?
BOSCH: Well, I think he has been given what isn't, in the analogy in a legal sense, a letter before action. And if the view here is, if regime survival is his main goal, if that is his end result, then he may see that he might, at this time, have no choice but to comply with the inspections coming in and fulfilling all of the resolutions for 687. He has no choice now but to cooperate.
O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about cooperation for just a moment. You have been there on the ground.
BOSCH: Right.
O'BRIEN: And the inspectors are oftentimes put in completely untenable situations, literally outgunned by the people that you are charted to inspect. If you were orchestrating this latest round of inspections, if they are to occur, what would you do to make it possible to do something that is real and not just a complete show and an opportunity for Saddam Hussein to just bide some time?
BOSCH: Well, it's important, as mentioned before, that there is a continued military presence and a threat of military force, so that he knows that something will happen to him.
The U.N. inspectors will be very aware of the various ruses that they have used over the seven years during the UNSCOM period.
O'BRIEN: All right...
BOSCH: Many of the denial of access to sites were, of course, journalistically appealing, and this time, I would expect that you will not see what we traditionally have seen in terms of the cat and mouse. He can't be seen to be reported to do that, if he is going to allow for unconditional access.
O'BRIEN: Well, just...
BOSCH: And therefore, the type of ruses...
O'BRIEN: Can you -- Ms. Bosch...
BOSCH: ...he would do, would be in the negotiations...
O'BRIEN: I know this is a big question, but I...
(CROSSTALK)
BOSCH: ... inspections on the ground.
O'BRIEN: How do you go about doing your job there? It's a big country, uncooperative hosts, if you will, and really, in many ways they suspect you of being spies. How can you really do the job given that whole atmosphere?
BOSCH: Over the seven years, as I said, it has been -- the journalistically appealing denial of access that we have seen, and they -- those were at various moments more subtle is the kind of obfuscation and tales, such as what Ralph Akais (ph) had mentioned in terms of the accounts they give as being similar to the Arabian tales of the 1001 nights.
When the -- or assuming that they do go in again, he cannot be shown to physically deny them, because that would be a rather obvious condition on which there may be, if a U.N. resolution comes in, there may be the resort to some form of military operation. Therefore, if there is going to be any kind of so-called un-cooperation, which required an elasticity in terms of definition. There is lot of -- there is some political nuance. At times, there may be some face- saving required for both inspections and the Iraqi regime.
O'BRIEN: Olivia Bosch is a former U.N. weapons inspector.
BOSCH: It will be unclear.
O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
BOSCH: OK.
O'BRIEN: We appreciate your time.
BOSCH: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
