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American Morning
Interview with Alon Pinkus, Saeb Erakat
Aired September 20, 2002 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to the Middle East, another wave of violence. Two suicide bombings in the past two days in Israel broke six weeks of calm in the region for Israelis, raising new concerns about whether the Palestinians and Israelis are any closer to peace. Yasser Arafat is once again confined to his West Bank office this morning, as Israeli military forces have the Ramallah compound surrounded.
Joining us now from New York, Israeli Counsel General Alon Pinkus. On the phone from the West Bank city of Jericho, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat.
Welcome, gentlemen.
Mr. Erakat, I'm going to start with you this morning. What is going on inside the compound at this hour?
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, I think we're witnessing end game being realized, destroy the peace process, undermine the P.A., kill President Arafat and resume full Israeli occupation.
I think what's happening today marks maybe the end, the beginning of the end of Sharon's end game and today the compound, I think the only building that is still standing in this compound is President Arafat's office. Everything has been dynamited. One of President Arafat's presidential guards was killed this morning. Two were wounded. I think they don't have electricity or water now. And I believe that Sharon is going ahead with Israel's exit strategy from the peace process. I think it's a doomsday scenario what we're seeing today.
ZAHN: Mr. Pinkus, react to that, doomsday scenario? He accuses the Israelis of trying to kill Arafat, trying to kill the peace process and trying to undermine the Palestinian Authority. Your reaction?
ALON PINKUS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: Well, Paula, usually Saeb Erakat is more cool-headed than that. I'm sorry to hear all this self-propelled hysteria from him. There's no end game here. No one is going to kill Arafat. No one plans to expel Arafat. All we're doing in that compound is trying to get a hold of 20 suspected terrorists who have been on our wanted list for many months who the Palestinian Authority has not tried nor was willing to pass them on to us or transfer them to us or extradite them to us in order for them to stand trial. This is not an exit strategy and the only end game that I could talk about with confidence is the resumption of some kind of a political process. That can't be done as long as these terror attacks happen every day. And the fact that this is a story for you this morning is because there were three terror attacks in the last two days. But that is not to say that 60 or 70 others have not been prevented or foiled in the last six weeks.
ZAHN: Mr. Erakat, what about the status of those 20 alleged terrorists inside the compound? Will they turn themselves in?
ERAKAT: You know, Paula, I heard Alon, who I know very well and I appreciate very well. And I wish to god that we can go back to the negotiating table today, Alon, and I could find a partner in the Israeli cabinet to discuss these things. But the first time I heard about the 20 wounded was only last night. The first time. I've been meeting with Mr. Shimon Peres. I've been meeting with Israeli negotiators and never have they brought this issue. And some of the names they're throwing up, like Afif Tarawi (ph), has been in Ramallah. And Ramallah has been under Israeli occupation for the last seven months.
So I wonder what, why such pretexts now? We all know that when this suicide bombing happened in Tel Aviv yesterday President Arafat was the first to condemn this suicide attack. We all know that President Arafat on the 9th of September stood up and urged the Palestinian people to have full cessation of suicide bombing or any attacks on Israelis.
We had six weeks, as Alon said, of no suicide bombing. Why couldn't the Israeli government use this opportunity to reconcile, to have a quiet? On the contrary. When you say, Paula, that relatively quiet, quiet for whom?
In this period we had 71 Palestinians killed. Tens of homes were demolished. Israeli occupation, 3.3 million people confined to their homes under curfew. If it's quiet for the Israelis, it should also be quiet for the Palestinians.
But nevertheless, I will take Alon Pinkus' words to say that I agree with him that the only way out is not going to be through escalation. What we need at this stage is a de-escalation process, a de-confliction process and I really urge President Bush administration to focus on us in order not to negotiate for us or to make concessions for us, but to bring us to a meaningful peace process. Because there will, there is no way to reconcile, there is no way to save lives of Israelis and Palestinians other than resumption of a meaningful peace process. This deterioration must stop immediately because...
ZAHN: But Mr. Erakat, can you answer that question, though, that I asked you? What about the status of these 20 guys inside?
ERAKAT: I can't give...
ZAHN: The Israelis are calling them collaborators. Some Palestinians are calling them political prisoners. Who are they and will they turn themselves in?
ERAKAT: I honestly have really the slightest idea. I have really the slightest idea. I heard about it from the media last night. I'm yet to hear one Israeli official contacting me and telling me what's going on and I don't know, because most of the people who are inside the compound -- I know Dr. Salam Fayad, the minister of finance, is inside the compound. I know some other of my colleagues are inside the compound. But the Israeli side did not contact us and I'm afraid they're using this as a pretext because I...
ZAHN: Mr. Pinkus, what about that charge?
PINKUS: Well, if...
ZAHN: Is it possible that the Palestinians didn't know that you wanted these guys?
PINKUS: No. It is possible that Mr. Erakat did not know and I'm sure and confident that he's telling the truth and if he wants to be contacted by an Israeli official to learn more about who these people are, assuming he doesn't know who they are, and then by all means I will personally see to it that he's being contacted and being given that list.
But there's a broader picture here, Paula. Saeb Erakat and other Palestinians are blaming Prime Minister Sharon for an end game, for an exit strategy, for undermining the P.A. The one man who undermined the Palestinian Authority in both concept and structure is Yasser Arafat, and I think that people like Saeb Erakat are beginning to realize this. When they call for President Bush to re-engage in the Middle East, that know that he is already engaged in the Middle East and they know that he has set some very ambitious political goals that the Palestinians would be smart and prudent to listen to -- reform your government, democratize, stop terror, one source of authority.
But...
ZAHN: But Mr. Pinkus, before you get any further, Mr. Erakat told us yesterday very forcefully that you've undermined his, Arafat's ability to crack down on those responsible for these attacks because the Palestinian Authority is so weakened. He said you guys are holding him prisoner.
PINKUS: What we've undermined, Paula, is the infrastructure that Arafat built that has supported terror, not his ability to combat terror. Look, he's blaming Sharon. But there was terror under Prime Minister Rabin, whom they did not trust. There was terror and suicide bombings under Prime Minister Peres in the mid-'90s. There was terror under Prime Minister Netanyahu and there was terror under Prime Minister Barak, the very prime minister who came forth with that comprehensive peace plan with President Clinton at his side at Camp David.
Now, how many Israeli prime ministers are the Palestinians not going to trust and how many American presidents are they not going to trust? And my question to Saeb Erakat is very simple. Are you again going to trust only Saddam Hussein like you did in 1991? Are you going to...
ZAHN: All right...
PINKUS: Are you going to waste another opportunity...
ERAKAT: Come on. Come on, Alon. Come on.
ZAHN: Mr. Erakat...
PINKUS: Come on.
ZAHN: ... we can only give you 10 seconds. The satellite is going to go down.
ERAKAT: OK. All I want to say to Alon is stop this broken record. Stop blame, finger pointing, blame assignments. This will not save the lives of Palestinians and Israelis. We need Palestinians and Israelis to resume sanity, wisdom and courage. We need to come to negotiations. And I really urge the Israeli government to seize this opportunity and to come immediately back to the negotiating table.
There will never be military solutions alone. You know this. You know that President Arafat have recognized the state of Israel, he's the first Palestinian leader. And we need you back to the negotiating table and not on the battle ground.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there.
Thank you both for joining us this morning.
Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat and Israeli Consul General Alon Pinkus.
Thanks for your time, gentlemen.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 20, 2002 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to the Middle East, another wave of violence. Two suicide bombings in the past two days in Israel broke six weeks of calm in the region for Israelis, raising new concerns about whether the Palestinians and Israelis are any closer to peace. Yasser Arafat is once again confined to his West Bank office this morning, as Israeli military forces have the Ramallah compound surrounded.
Joining us now from New York, Israeli Counsel General Alon Pinkus. On the phone from the West Bank city of Jericho, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat.
Welcome, gentlemen.
Mr. Erakat, I'm going to start with you this morning. What is going on inside the compound at this hour?
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, I think we're witnessing end game being realized, destroy the peace process, undermine the P.A., kill President Arafat and resume full Israeli occupation.
I think what's happening today marks maybe the end, the beginning of the end of Sharon's end game and today the compound, I think the only building that is still standing in this compound is President Arafat's office. Everything has been dynamited. One of President Arafat's presidential guards was killed this morning. Two were wounded. I think they don't have electricity or water now. And I believe that Sharon is going ahead with Israel's exit strategy from the peace process. I think it's a doomsday scenario what we're seeing today.
ZAHN: Mr. Pinkus, react to that, doomsday scenario? He accuses the Israelis of trying to kill Arafat, trying to kill the peace process and trying to undermine the Palestinian Authority. Your reaction?
ALON PINKUS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: Well, Paula, usually Saeb Erakat is more cool-headed than that. I'm sorry to hear all this self-propelled hysteria from him. There's no end game here. No one is going to kill Arafat. No one plans to expel Arafat. All we're doing in that compound is trying to get a hold of 20 suspected terrorists who have been on our wanted list for many months who the Palestinian Authority has not tried nor was willing to pass them on to us or transfer them to us or extradite them to us in order for them to stand trial. This is not an exit strategy and the only end game that I could talk about with confidence is the resumption of some kind of a political process. That can't be done as long as these terror attacks happen every day. And the fact that this is a story for you this morning is because there were three terror attacks in the last two days. But that is not to say that 60 or 70 others have not been prevented or foiled in the last six weeks.
ZAHN: Mr. Erakat, what about the status of those 20 alleged terrorists inside the compound? Will they turn themselves in?
ERAKAT: You know, Paula, I heard Alon, who I know very well and I appreciate very well. And I wish to god that we can go back to the negotiating table today, Alon, and I could find a partner in the Israeli cabinet to discuss these things. But the first time I heard about the 20 wounded was only last night. The first time. I've been meeting with Mr. Shimon Peres. I've been meeting with Israeli negotiators and never have they brought this issue. And some of the names they're throwing up, like Afif Tarawi (ph), has been in Ramallah. And Ramallah has been under Israeli occupation for the last seven months.
So I wonder what, why such pretexts now? We all know that when this suicide bombing happened in Tel Aviv yesterday President Arafat was the first to condemn this suicide attack. We all know that President Arafat on the 9th of September stood up and urged the Palestinian people to have full cessation of suicide bombing or any attacks on Israelis.
We had six weeks, as Alon said, of no suicide bombing. Why couldn't the Israeli government use this opportunity to reconcile, to have a quiet? On the contrary. When you say, Paula, that relatively quiet, quiet for whom?
In this period we had 71 Palestinians killed. Tens of homes were demolished. Israeli occupation, 3.3 million people confined to their homes under curfew. If it's quiet for the Israelis, it should also be quiet for the Palestinians.
But nevertheless, I will take Alon Pinkus' words to say that I agree with him that the only way out is not going to be through escalation. What we need at this stage is a de-escalation process, a de-confliction process and I really urge President Bush administration to focus on us in order not to negotiate for us or to make concessions for us, but to bring us to a meaningful peace process. Because there will, there is no way to reconcile, there is no way to save lives of Israelis and Palestinians other than resumption of a meaningful peace process. This deterioration must stop immediately because...
ZAHN: But Mr. Erakat, can you answer that question, though, that I asked you? What about the status of these 20 guys inside?
ERAKAT: I can't give...
ZAHN: The Israelis are calling them collaborators. Some Palestinians are calling them political prisoners. Who are they and will they turn themselves in?
ERAKAT: I honestly have really the slightest idea. I have really the slightest idea. I heard about it from the media last night. I'm yet to hear one Israeli official contacting me and telling me what's going on and I don't know, because most of the people who are inside the compound -- I know Dr. Salam Fayad, the minister of finance, is inside the compound. I know some other of my colleagues are inside the compound. But the Israeli side did not contact us and I'm afraid they're using this as a pretext because I...
ZAHN: Mr. Pinkus, what about that charge?
PINKUS: Well, if...
ZAHN: Is it possible that the Palestinians didn't know that you wanted these guys?
PINKUS: No. It is possible that Mr. Erakat did not know and I'm sure and confident that he's telling the truth and if he wants to be contacted by an Israeli official to learn more about who these people are, assuming he doesn't know who they are, and then by all means I will personally see to it that he's being contacted and being given that list.
But there's a broader picture here, Paula. Saeb Erakat and other Palestinians are blaming Prime Minister Sharon for an end game, for an exit strategy, for undermining the P.A. The one man who undermined the Palestinian Authority in both concept and structure is Yasser Arafat, and I think that people like Saeb Erakat are beginning to realize this. When they call for President Bush to re-engage in the Middle East, that know that he is already engaged in the Middle East and they know that he has set some very ambitious political goals that the Palestinians would be smart and prudent to listen to -- reform your government, democratize, stop terror, one source of authority.
But...
ZAHN: But Mr. Pinkus, before you get any further, Mr. Erakat told us yesterday very forcefully that you've undermined his, Arafat's ability to crack down on those responsible for these attacks because the Palestinian Authority is so weakened. He said you guys are holding him prisoner.
PINKUS: What we've undermined, Paula, is the infrastructure that Arafat built that has supported terror, not his ability to combat terror. Look, he's blaming Sharon. But there was terror under Prime Minister Rabin, whom they did not trust. There was terror and suicide bombings under Prime Minister Peres in the mid-'90s. There was terror under Prime Minister Netanyahu and there was terror under Prime Minister Barak, the very prime minister who came forth with that comprehensive peace plan with President Clinton at his side at Camp David.
Now, how many Israeli prime ministers are the Palestinians not going to trust and how many American presidents are they not going to trust? And my question to Saeb Erakat is very simple. Are you again going to trust only Saddam Hussein like you did in 1991? Are you going to...
ZAHN: All right...
PINKUS: Are you going to waste another opportunity...
ERAKAT: Come on. Come on, Alon. Come on.
ZAHN: Mr. Erakat...
PINKUS: Come on.
ZAHN: ... we can only give you 10 seconds. The satellite is going to go down.
ERAKAT: OK. All I want to say to Alon is stop this broken record. Stop blame, finger pointing, blame assignments. This will not save the lives of Palestinians and Israelis. We need Palestinians and Israelis to resume sanity, wisdom and courage. We need to come to negotiations. And I really urge the Israeli government to seize this opportunity and to come immediately back to the negotiating table.
There will never be military solutions alone. You know this. You know that President Arafat have recognized the state of Israel, he's the first Palestinian leader. And we need you back to the negotiating table and not on the battle ground.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there.
Thank you both for joining us this morning.
Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat and Israeli Consul General Alon Pinkus.
Thanks for your time, gentlemen.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
