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American Morning

Interview With Madelyne Toogood

Aired September 23, 2002 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The mother caught on tape beating her 4- year-old daughter wants the world to know she is not a monster. Madelyne Gorman Toogood turned herself into authorities over the weekend. A parking lot surveillance camera captured her assaulting the little girl. The girl has since been placed with a foster family. Toogood is due in court later this morning to face a felony battery charge. She joins us now, along with her attorney, Steven Rosen, from South Bend, Indiana.
Thank you for being with us this morning.

Madelyne, how are you going to plead today in court?

MADELYNE TOOGOOD, MOTHER: I think my lawyer said not guilty.

STEVEN ROSEN, ATTORNEY: Right.

ZAHN: And why is that, Madelyne?

TOODGOOD: Not guilty. I think you have to ask him the legal stuff. I don't really know why.

Go ahead. Do you want to answer that?

ZAHN: Before I get to legal stuff, Madelyne, you have actually admitted to beating your daughter. So are you comfortable standing before a judge today saying you're not guilty of something you've already admitted to doing?

TOOGOOD: I'm putting my trust in him. That's all I can do. My lawyer, he told me that was the best thing to do, so that is what I'm doing.

ZAHN: Steven, why are you going to do that?

ROSEN: It's a formality, Paula. Going to a courtroom on a first appearance, you plead not guilty. In fact, yes, we have given a statement to police and, yes, in fact, Madelyne is here to talk to you about the event.

ZAHN: So, Madelyne, let's come back to the event. Why did you beat your 4-year-old daughter, Martha?

TOOGOOD: I've probably said it a million times, there is no excuse. I shouldn't have did it. There isn't a reason why. There would be nothing to provoke something like that on a child. The only thing I can say is apologize to my husband, my family, my child, which I've did all of that, and there is no explaining it. There is no -- there is nothing I really can say for it.

ZAHN: Madelyne, have you ever hit any of your three children before?

TOOGOOD: I've spanked them, but, no, I've never assaulted them, no.

ZAHN: So as you're sitting here getting ready for a court appearance, I'm wondering what led to this. You certainly have had to think about that over the last couple of days.

TOOGOOD: Yes, but there is really nothing in my mind that I could say that would lead to this. Martha was just being Martha. She was running, she was getting lost, she was opening up everything in the store. She was jumping from the counter to the stroller. You know, that's just a typical day with Martha. I was probably bickering with my sister, another sister, and my husband that day. But no, nothing that would even have anything to do with Martha.

ZAHN: So you're saying basically you just...

TOOGOOD: Misplaced.

ZAHN: You say you snapped and you have called it an impulse sieve mistake, but when America looks at this videotape, they see the beating doesn't go on to 15, 20 seconds, it goes on for 25 seconds, and it appears as though right before the beating started, you are actually looking around to see if anybody was watching you.

TOOGOOD: No, because there was people right in front of the store. That is not what I was doing. I was looking at a car that was dragging something, and I only looked one way. But that's not what I was doing.

ZAHN: We're seeing this right now. You kind of look behind you. Let me ask you this, at any point during your hitting of your child, were you thinking to yourself, I've lost it here, I've gone too far, what's happened to me?

TOOGOOD: No, I don't think I really -- I don't think I really even thought. At the time, I didn't think of -- after I done it, I thought to myself, that was -- you went too far, that was too much, that was too far. But did I think it looked like it was? No. I know I hit Martha, and I knew I pulled her hair, and I shouldn't have did either of it, but at the time, no, I didn't think I -- I didn't think it was as bad as it was on that videotape, no.

ZAHN: What did you think the first time you saw that videotape, Madelyne?

TOOGOOD: I was horrified. I was actually sick to my stomach. I was mortified. There is probably no one word to sum up all of my thoughts.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what happened after you left that parking lot. You eventually headed from Indiana to Maryland to New Jersey. You, obviously, changed your hair color. Were you trying to avoid public scrutiny? Were you trying to avoid being caught?

TOOGOOD: No -- after I left, after -- first of all, after we left the parking lot, Martha said that her wingy, which is a pigtail, was messed up, and I said, I'm sorry, Martha, I shouldn't have pulled your hair. I said, "I'm sorry, Martha, I shouldn't have pulled your hair." From then, we went back, later that evening, somebody come to my sisters and was -- I knew that they were looking for me. No videotape or anything was of knowledge right then.

A couple of days a later, they come back to question my sister and they held her for three days without charging her for anything. And I was afraid to go in with my daughter, because I thought they were going to take her. I left with my other two children, and flew to my mother's, and when I did that, this was all before it hit, you know, everywhere, like it has. It's come on the local news, and my sister still wasn't charged, and she still, you know, she still wasn't getting out. I videotaped my daughter in a bathing suit to -- and took pictures of her to make -- that they could see there was no marks on my daughter.

ZAHN: But a lot of people are saying that videotape was many, many days after you beat her. Can you confirm to our audience this morning that she didn't look anything different the day after the beating? Because what people are saying, it took you eight days to take her to a trauma specialist.

TOOGOOD: My child was fine. She never had a mark on her. She was checked out by two doctors, and both doctors said if she was beat like -- if she was beat, there would be -- bruises don't clear up in four days. She would have the bruises. She would have marks. You know, they ain't going to go away in three or four days. She could be -- there would be evidence.

ZAHN: Madelyne, finally, this morning, I know that you've heard people call you a monster, you've heard them call you something even worse than that, and your lawyer said you've gone public with your story, to admit you've made a mistake here. What is it that you're trying to teach other Americans about what went so horribly wrong that day?

TOOGOOD: Oh, just -- I don't -- just -- walk away. Count to 10. My God, look at this, they took my child, of every member of my family; it's ruined my husband, my other two children, my mother, my father, everybody is devastated. My little girl is probably terrified right now.

For the next person, it's -- you know, before you raise your hand to your child, just think, just walk away. Don't -- just walk away. It ain't worth it. My child is gone. It would be no different to me right now if my child was kidnapped.

And people might think I'm a monster, but I'm just -- I've been a mother for six years, you know. No harm has ever come to my children before this -- never. And the people that know me know me, I'm not. But, you know, all I can say is, I'm sorry, and that's it. That's all I can say to everybody else. ZAHN: And we will leave it there this morning. Madelyne Gorman Toogood and Steven Rosen, we appreciate your dropping by to join us on AMERICAN MORNING.

TOOGOOD: Thank you.

ROSEN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 23, 2002 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The mother caught on tape beating her 4- year-old daughter wants the world to know she is not a monster. Madelyne Gorman Toogood turned herself into authorities over the weekend. A parking lot surveillance camera captured her assaulting the little girl. The girl has since been placed with a foster family. Toogood is due in court later this morning to face a felony battery charge. She joins us now, along with her attorney, Steven Rosen, from South Bend, Indiana.
Thank you for being with us this morning.

Madelyne, how are you going to plead today in court?

MADELYNE TOOGOOD, MOTHER: I think my lawyer said not guilty.

STEVEN ROSEN, ATTORNEY: Right.

ZAHN: And why is that, Madelyne?

TOODGOOD: Not guilty. I think you have to ask him the legal stuff. I don't really know why.

Go ahead. Do you want to answer that?

ZAHN: Before I get to legal stuff, Madelyne, you have actually admitted to beating your daughter. So are you comfortable standing before a judge today saying you're not guilty of something you've already admitted to doing?

TOOGOOD: I'm putting my trust in him. That's all I can do. My lawyer, he told me that was the best thing to do, so that is what I'm doing.

ZAHN: Steven, why are you going to do that?

ROSEN: It's a formality, Paula. Going to a courtroom on a first appearance, you plead not guilty. In fact, yes, we have given a statement to police and, yes, in fact, Madelyne is here to talk to you about the event.

ZAHN: So, Madelyne, let's come back to the event. Why did you beat your 4-year-old daughter, Martha?

TOOGOOD: I've probably said it a million times, there is no excuse. I shouldn't have did it. There isn't a reason why. There would be nothing to provoke something like that on a child. The only thing I can say is apologize to my husband, my family, my child, which I've did all of that, and there is no explaining it. There is no -- there is nothing I really can say for it.

ZAHN: Madelyne, have you ever hit any of your three children before?

TOOGOOD: I've spanked them, but, no, I've never assaulted them, no.

ZAHN: So as you're sitting here getting ready for a court appearance, I'm wondering what led to this. You certainly have had to think about that over the last couple of days.

TOOGOOD: Yes, but there is really nothing in my mind that I could say that would lead to this. Martha was just being Martha. She was running, she was getting lost, she was opening up everything in the store. She was jumping from the counter to the stroller. You know, that's just a typical day with Martha. I was probably bickering with my sister, another sister, and my husband that day. But no, nothing that would even have anything to do with Martha.

ZAHN: So you're saying basically you just...

TOOGOOD: Misplaced.

ZAHN: You say you snapped and you have called it an impulse sieve mistake, but when America looks at this videotape, they see the beating doesn't go on to 15, 20 seconds, it goes on for 25 seconds, and it appears as though right before the beating started, you are actually looking around to see if anybody was watching you.

TOOGOOD: No, because there was people right in front of the store. That is not what I was doing. I was looking at a car that was dragging something, and I only looked one way. But that's not what I was doing.

ZAHN: We're seeing this right now. You kind of look behind you. Let me ask you this, at any point during your hitting of your child, were you thinking to yourself, I've lost it here, I've gone too far, what's happened to me?

TOOGOOD: No, I don't think I really -- I don't think I really even thought. At the time, I didn't think of -- after I done it, I thought to myself, that was -- you went too far, that was too much, that was too far. But did I think it looked like it was? No. I know I hit Martha, and I knew I pulled her hair, and I shouldn't have did either of it, but at the time, no, I didn't think I -- I didn't think it was as bad as it was on that videotape, no.

ZAHN: What did you think the first time you saw that videotape, Madelyne?

TOOGOOD: I was horrified. I was actually sick to my stomach. I was mortified. There is probably no one word to sum up all of my thoughts.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what happened after you left that parking lot. You eventually headed from Indiana to Maryland to New Jersey. You, obviously, changed your hair color. Were you trying to avoid public scrutiny? Were you trying to avoid being caught?

TOOGOOD: No -- after I left, after -- first of all, after we left the parking lot, Martha said that her wingy, which is a pigtail, was messed up, and I said, I'm sorry, Martha, I shouldn't have pulled your hair. I said, "I'm sorry, Martha, I shouldn't have pulled your hair." From then, we went back, later that evening, somebody come to my sisters and was -- I knew that they were looking for me. No videotape or anything was of knowledge right then.

A couple of days a later, they come back to question my sister and they held her for three days without charging her for anything. And I was afraid to go in with my daughter, because I thought they were going to take her. I left with my other two children, and flew to my mother's, and when I did that, this was all before it hit, you know, everywhere, like it has. It's come on the local news, and my sister still wasn't charged, and she still, you know, she still wasn't getting out. I videotaped my daughter in a bathing suit to -- and took pictures of her to make -- that they could see there was no marks on my daughter.

ZAHN: But a lot of people are saying that videotape was many, many days after you beat her. Can you confirm to our audience this morning that she didn't look anything different the day after the beating? Because what people are saying, it took you eight days to take her to a trauma specialist.

TOOGOOD: My child was fine. She never had a mark on her. She was checked out by two doctors, and both doctors said if she was beat like -- if she was beat, there would be -- bruises don't clear up in four days. She would have the bruises. She would have marks. You know, they ain't going to go away in three or four days. She could be -- there would be evidence.

ZAHN: Madelyne, finally, this morning, I know that you've heard people call you a monster, you've heard them call you something even worse than that, and your lawyer said you've gone public with your story, to admit you've made a mistake here. What is it that you're trying to teach other Americans about what went so horribly wrong that day?

TOOGOOD: Oh, just -- I don't -- just -- walk away. Count to 10. My God, look at this, they took my child, of every member of my family; it's ruined my husband, my other two children, my mother, my father, everybody is devastated. My little girl is probably terrified right now.

For the next person, it's -- you know, before you raise your hand to your child, just think, just walk away. Don't -- just walk away. It ain't worth it. My child is gone. It would be no different to me right now if my child was kidnapped.

And people might think I'm a monster, but I'm just -- I've been a mother for six years, you know. No harm has ever come to my children before this -- never. And the people that know me know me, I'm not. But, you know, all I can say is, I'm sorry, and that's it. That's all I can say to everybody else. ZAHN: And we will leave it there this morning. Madelyne Gorman Toogood and Steven Rosen, we appreciate your dropping by to join us on AMERICAN MORNING.

TOOGOOD: Thank you.

ROSEN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com