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CNN Talkback Live
Did Armey Insult Jews, Liberals?; Does Daschle Deserve Apology?; Are Congressmen, Bush Playing Politics on Iraq Question?; Should Madelyne Toogood's Daughter be Returned to Her?
Aired September 25, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle is demanding an apology from President Bush. We'll find out if Daschle deserves one. Plus, look at who's playing politics with Iraq as we close in on the midterm elections. Then stay tuned and see if Congressman Dick Armey's comments about Jews was out of line. And is there any reason to keep Madelyne Toogood away from her daughter?
First, let's meet our panel. Yolanda Gaskins is an attorney and radio talk show host in Dallas, Texas. Steve Malzberg is a radio talk show host on WABC in New York and columnist for NewsMax.com. Gareth Schweitzer is a White House correspondent for the Talk Radio News Service. And Peter Blute is a radio talk show host on WRKO in Boston. He is a former congressman. And his morning show is called "Blute and Ozone."
I want to thank all of you for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Good, good, good.
OK, let's start with why Senator Daschle thinks President Bush owes Democrats an apology. Here's what Daschle said this morning on the Senate floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: The president is quoted in "The Washington Post" this morning as saying that the Democratic-controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people.
Not interested in the security of the American people? You tell Senator Inouye he is not interested in the security of the American people. You tell those who fought in Vietnam and in World War II they are not interested in the security of the American people. That is outrageous, outrageous. The president ought to apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: CNN senior White House correspondent John King joins us to explain what the president and others said to get that response -- John,
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Arthel, let me start by saying Senator Daschle is not going to get the apology he demands, White House aides saying they think the senator is out of line here.
And they think this is evidence of the frustration many Democrats have, because we are five weeks from the election season. The Democrats want it to be about the economy and about health care and it is a campaign very much dominated -- at least the discussion here in Washington -- by the war on terrorism and now the confrontation with Iraq.
The White House makes this distinction. You heard Senator Daschle quote from the newspaper, saying the president said the Democratic-controlled Senate does not have the security interests, does not care about the security interests of the United States of America. The president never used in his speech the word "Democratic- controlled." He said "the Senate." It is the newspaper that added the words "Democratic-controlled."
Elsewhere in that same speech, the president said both Republicans and Democrats were helping him. This comment was directed specifically to the fight over the homeland security bill and the fight between the president, who wants broad powers to hire, fire, move people around, Democrats, who, at the request of labor unions, want some specific regulations about the workplace. So the White House thinks this is being blown out of proportion and they think it is a sign of frustration among the Democrats as the elections get closer.
NEVILLE: Now, John, Ari Fleischer is going to address reporters in about 25 minutes. What do you think he is going to say about all of this?
KING: Well, he will say, we are told, first and foremost, that there is no apology planned by the White House.
And what you might hear him say publicly is what we are being told by other White House officials who are not on camera. So we will see if Ari Fleischer goes as far. They say if Senator Daschle wants to blame someone for politicizing the war this week, perhaps he should give Al Gore a call and refer to the speech the former vice president and former Bush rival gave earlier this week in which he was sharply critical of the president.
Senator Tom Daschle also criticized Vice President Cheney, saying that Vice President Cheney said a Republican candidate in Kansas would be preferable to the Democrat when it came to waging the war effort and supporting the president on the war effort. The White House is saying a Kansas newspaper wrote a story that said that, but if you go back and look at what Mr. Cheney said, he never made that direct comparison.
So the White House is saying here is that Senator Daschle should be more careful before he delivers these speeches. But let's be clear. There is a sentiment among Republicans that any debate that focuses on Iraq and homeland security helps the party heading into the election. The president said today that this is his job, that he is going to talk about it at every appearance. You have tensions between the Democrats and the Republicans, perhaps to be expected this close to the election.
But the issues, of course, are of grave concern, because we are talking about war and the possibility of military action in Iraq.
NEVILLE: Absolutely.
John King, thank you very much for that report.
OK, panel, I want to bring you in on this discussion right now. Does Daschle have a point or is he way off base?
I'm going to start with you, Yolanda.
YOLANDA GASKINS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This whole thing is very disheartening to me.
And I'm sure a lot of the American people -- somehow, I think a lot of us thought that, after September 11, some of this political craziness would end, some of the name-calling, some of the jumping to conclusions. But, apparently, it is never going to end. And I think that it just really takes the focus off the real problems that we have in America right now.
NEVILLE: Which are?
GASKINS: Well, how long is this show? We are going to be going through a lot of them, but No. 1, the economy; No. 2, what is going on with the possibility of war; the stock market.
I mean, there are a lot of things that are going on internally right now. And somehow I feel that this kind of bickering needs to be put to an end. And I was optimistic that, after September 11, that some of this would happen. But I think my optimism was a little bit too fast.
NEVILLE: Peter Blute, how do you see it?
PETER BLUTE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think there is growing frustration in the White House that the Senate has not acted on this homeland security bill fully a year after 9/11.
And it appears they are holding it up at the request of a special interest group, organized labor, who are very invested in the Democratic politicians. I think national security should come first. Bush is right that this is a different type of agency. It should not be just another regular agency. You should be able to hire and fire very quickly, depending on performance and depending on need.
NEVILLE: Steve?
STEVE MALZBERG, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I agree with everything that was just stated. Obviously, they are playing politics in an effort to support the unions. When it comes to national security, you need to be able to move people around.
But Tom Daschle, I would like somebody to talk about Tom Daschle playing politics. Four years ago, in 1998, Tom Daschle was one of the co-sponsors of a bill in the Senate that authorized President Clinton to take whatever action necessary against Iraq if they did not live up to all the U.N. resolutions.
And also today, Tom Daschle said that George Bush's father had it right in 1991. He got international support and an international coalition. But guess what? In 1991, Tom Daschle voted no for the war. So who is playing politics here?
NEVILLE: Gareth, you answer that question.
GARETH SCHWEITZER, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Well, look, first of all, I would like to point out that they have now basically claimed that a special interest is anything that disagrees with the White House. These labor unions represent the workers who are going to work in this new department. So, in essence, what the Democrats are doing is, they're representing the people, the citizens of the United States who are going to work here.
In terms of the apology, no, Tom Daschle does not deserve an apology. Neither does the administration. This is the politics of the Bush administration riding a winning horse. Nothing is more popular than a war before it's started, there's been any casualties, there's been any bloodshed. And nothing is more unpopular than an economy that's sinking. They are getting on the horse that is winning the race.
NEVILLE: OK, listen, I want to let the audience speak out right now, beginning with Dennis (ph).
DENNIS: Well, right now, the economy is in pretty bad shape. And the potential war that we are having with Iraq is acting as a convenient shield for the president. And it allows him to not focus on the economy and all the other things that are happening at home.
NEVILLE: So, are you saying there may be a little bit of politics at play here?
DENNIS: Yes.
NEVILLE: OK.
Let's see what Diane (ph) has to say. She's joining us from Washington.
DIANE: Well, I think we have to use a lot of common sense here. If we don't keep a lid on our security and on the war on terror, we are not even going to have economy left to work on. It's just going to disappear.
NEVILLE: OK, thanks, Diane (ph), for that comment. Listen, we have to take a break right now, but I want to hear from you a little bit more on this. Who owes whom an apology? Of course, you can give me a call me at 1-800-310-4CNN or e-mail TALKBACK@CNN.com.
Plus, you'll hear from a senator who accuses the president of trading soldiers' lives for votes. The talk continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Today on TALKBACK LIVE: What did House Majority Leader Dick Armey say about liberal Jews? And are Democrats right to condemn him? Also, Kentucky Governor Paul Patton admits to an affair, but now tells reporters he does not want to talk about it anymore. Straying politicians and the media: How much coverage is too much?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The blood of our sons and daughters, our soldiers, sailors and airmen have far more value than a few votes in a ballot box. There's nothing more sobering than the decision to go to war. But the administration has turned the decision into a bumper sticker election theme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.
You just heard Senator Byrd accuse President Bush of turning Iraq into a bumper sticker election issue. Speaking on the Senate floor today, Byrd also said that, in 50 years, he has never seen a president or a vice president stoop to such low levels.
OK, I am going to address the panel again on this.
I think, Yolanda, I want to ask you this. Do you think that this is about something else?
OK, listen, what I am going to do right now is go to a phone call, where I have got Neil (ph), who is standing by from Connecticut.
Go ahead, Neil (ph). What do you have to say about all of this?
CALLER: Arthel, big fan, first-time caller.
First of all, thank God for John King. He seems to be the only man in Washington who seems to be able to read a newspaper. I am just hoping he can give some "Hooked on Phonics" lessons to Tom Daschle.
My problem with Daschle, though, is this. He did a beautiful job of talking in sound bites. And the media -- and I'm not faulting CNN. All the other networks are going to do this, too. They are going to continue playing that Daschle sound bite over and over again. And people who can only hear the things that they want to hear are going to make the mistake of assuming that Daschle knows what he's talking about.
And people who won't take the time to find out what the president really said will keep hearing all this wrong information and assuming it is the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: So, then, Neil (ph), how do you see it?
CALLER: I see what John King has been saying, that the president's comments were taken completely out of context. He is not talking about whether the World War II veterans in Congress care about security.
In fact, one of the things that was pointed out was that Bush was not even talking specifically about the Democrats in Congress. The fact that Democrats control the Congress was something that was inserted into Bush's quote by "The Washington Post." They put it in those square brackets that are around the quote that the press inserts when they want to add their own spin to what ever somebody really says.
NEVILLE: But I am just wondering now, is the Senate not dominated by the Democrats?
CALLER: Well, it is, but Bush did not single out the Democrats when he made the comment. He is talking about Congress, the entire body. He didn't say the Democrats in Congress don't care.
He said that Congress, by sitting on their hands, the way they have been doing with this issue right from the very beginning and not getting the work done that the people want done, he is painting Congress with a broad brush, instead of just the Democrats. The Democrats are going: "Oh, no, he is saying nasty things about the Democrats. It must be political."
NEVILLE: OK. All right, Neil (ph), thank you very much for calling us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.
And who was that with the big grin on? Was it Gareth? Steve.
Go ahead, Steve. What are you thinking?
MALZBERG: Well, I am thinking back to Senator Byrd and how good it is to hear from the former KKK member trashing Bush and Cheney as the most despicable one-two combo in the United States and the White House in 50 years. He has got a heck of nerve, let me tell you that. Talking about misinformation, the press never likes to mention the fact that he was a former proud KKK member.
Look, the fact the matter is, your studio audience member had it right. We could have the greatest economy in the world. If we can't take a bus, if we can't go to a pizza place, if we can't go to a mall, if we can't send our kids to school without the fear of them being blown up, like it is in Israel, then our economy and our country and our freedom is worth nothing. So the president is focusing on keeping us safe, which is the primary function of this government or any government.
NEVILLE: OK. I think you might want to hear what Peggy (ph) has to say, Steve.
PEGGY: Yes.
There is an opinion going around that this war, part of the motivation for it is to boost the economy and also to establish a stronger U.S. military presence in the Middle East to keep a tighter handle on the world oil supply.
NEVILLE: OK, thanks, Peggy (ph).
Listen, I want to share an e-mail with you right now -- if we can pop that up. It is from Bill in Delaware. He says, "Bush's remark is so outrageous that every senator should demand a personal apology."
On that note, we are going to go to the phones now, California, where we have -- oh, another e-mail from Dan in Iowa: "Bush is warning America that we will be hit again if something isn't done about Iraq now. Bush owes no one anything."
OK, now we will go to California, where we have a caller standing by.
Dan, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes.
Bush is exactly right. He does not owe anybody an apology. I am a retired Navy. I don't appreciate Daschle using the veterans for his little political scores.
NEVILLE: OK, sir, thank you for calling in.
And, Gareth, I want to hear your response right now.
SCHWEITZER: Well, first of all, what Senator Byrd's history of prejudice has to do with anything, I'm not sure about. And, quite frankly if you go into the history of a number of Republicans, you will find more of the same thing.
MALZBERG: Oh, really. How many are KKK members, sir? Where's many of the same thing? Give me one.
SCHWEITZER: First of all, you can go into the past of people like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond and find exactly the same things that you are talking about.
MALZBERG: They're KKK members?
SCHWEITZER: You know that as well as I do.
But my point was that these are irrelevant to the point and it's all rhetoric, because the reality of it is, the president went from 2 1/2, three months ago, saying he was going to make a case for war in Iraq, to three months later, saying he made the case for war, without stopping in the middle to actually make that case.
There is nothing that's been said in the last three months. And thank goodness for Democrats like Dennis Kucinich and Nancy Pelosi, who seem to be the only ones on the Democratic side of the aisle saying that, saying, "Listen, we have heard nothing in the last three months which has given us any indication that there is any new threat behind Saddam Hussein."
But the Democratic Party has rolled over, fearing losing this election, and let the president's war machine steamroll them. And I think that is terribly unfortunate. The opposition party should be the one asking a lot of questions right now.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: OK, listen, I have an interesting guest in the audience, if I will. His name in is Brian. He joins us from England. I would like to hear what he has to say about this.
Brian?
BRIAN: Yes.
We have a similar problem in England. People are saying that Tony Blair is using Iraq to cover up the internal problems that we've got. I think it is possibly convenient in some ways. But I think there is enough of an opposition, people pointing out the problems that we do have, that I think there's plenty of people getting on with the internal things while the people at the top deal with the big problems of the world.
NEVILLE: All right, Brian, thank you very much
It is time for a break.
Up next: Is it time to stop talking so much about Iraq and do something about the economy? It's on your mind. We have already been talking about it. So how is your 401(k) doing?
Give us a call. We're going to hear from you.
TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: The market may be up today, but overall Wall Street has been in a steady decline: the Dow reaching four-year lows this week; the Nasdaq at a six-year low; 401(k)s losing so much, some people put their retirements on hold. The Census Bureau reports the poverty rate was up last year and median household income was down. But, in the midst of all the gloom, President Bush says he's optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I'm optimistic because, one, I'm optimistic about America in general. I mean, the American people are resilient, they're strong, we've got the best workers in the world, inflation is down, interest rates are low. So when you combine the productivity of the American people with low interest rates and low inflation, those are the ingredients for growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK, Yolanda, I want to ask you first, is President Bush downplaying the state of the economy or not?
GASKINS: Well, I believe he can be optimistic. He does not quite have the same concern about money that most of us have. A lot of people are not even opening their financial statements now because they are so bad and so depressing.
With the median income of moderate families going down, I think that is something really to be concerned about, because that is really the backbone of our society. So, when we talk about tax cuts and we put so much emphasis on tax cuts, we need to be concerned about making some income so that we can worry about the taxes after that.
NEVILLE: Listen, I want to hear what David (ph) has to say. He's standing in our audience.
DAVID: I just find it really interesting as far as the timing on all this. This has come up in the last couple months. And six or eight months ago, we were not even talking about attacking Iraq. And all the sudden, it's become such an issue. And as we approach election time, it seems to be even more of an issue. And it just kind of seems a little bit odd, the timing on all this.
NEVILLE: And, Rick (ph), what do you say?
RICK: I find it disturbing that we as Americans would believe that George Bush would actually use a situation such as this to distract attention from the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
RICK: I think to accuse him of doing such a thing is to assume that the threat is not real. Ladies and gentlemen, the threat is real. And I think we all believe that the threat is real.
BLUTE: Arthel...
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Peter.
BLUTE: When I was in Congress, I was a Republican. And President Clinton asked my support on deployments in Bosnia and elsewhere. And I supported him because he was the president of the United States. He thought it was in our national interests. Some people accused him of playing politics with some of his deployments. But I didn't. I thought it was the right thing to do.
There's no election in Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair is not facing the voters anytime soon, yet he believes very strongly that Saddam Hussein is pursuing weapons of mass destruction. I think what President Bush is saying, we don't have to time to wait. Whether there's an election or not, we have to act and act quickly to prevent another 9/11 that would be 100 times worse.
NEVILLE: OK, panel, hang on for me. I have Keyshawn (ph) in the audience from New York.
KEYSHAWN: Yes.
I just believe everything that is going on is just taking place from the word God. In the Book of Matthew, he said that there would be rumors of wars, because it is the last days that is taking place. So, as far as Bush, Bush is just being used as a tool right now to fulfill what God has spoken. And in America, what we need to do is repent. And once we repent, then God will bless us from there. And we need to be secure in him. And when we are secure in him, then God will fulfill everything else.
NEVILLE: OK, thank you, sir, so much for your statement, sir.
And I want to go to Minnesota, where Diane is standing by on the phone.
Diane, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes.
I think that Bush has tunnel vision. All he is concerned about is Iraq. I was laid off in January. I am still unemployed. I am more worried about the economy and how I am going to pay my bills.
NEVILLE: Gareth, I think I see you shaking your head. Quick comment.
SCHWEITZER: Well, I agree. I think the president -- and they have said it all along, that this is not their fault; it's left over from the Clinton administration. Well, the question is, we are two years in now. When does this become the Bush administration's responsibility?
I don't think that they have created the war in Iraq to get rid of the economic problems, but it's certainly a nice coincidence. And it has allowed the president to let economic issues slip farther and farther off of his agenda. It is their problem now. They need to deal with it.
NEVILLE: OK, listen...
GASKINS: At the very least, what he's done is...
NEVILLE: I'm sorry, Yolanda. I have to take a break. I'm sorry about that.
But up next: Maybe this is the day for apologies. Some Democrats think House Majority Leader Dick Armey owes a big one to Jews. We'll tell you why after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(INTERRUPTED BY NEWS UPDATE)
NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE.
What did House Majority Leader Dick Armey say about Jews? Some congressional Democrats are calling his words "breathtaking in their ignorance," and have condemned them.
Armey was at a roundtable discussion in Florida with a mostly Jewish audience. He was asked why the Jewish-American community is so divided between liberals and conservatives. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK ARMEY, HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I always see two Jewish communities in America: the Jewish community of intellectual depth is the one that I know best. And then there's the Jewish community of, what I would call, shallow intellect and the arts."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Armey went on to say liberals work in occupations "of the heart," liberals; while he described conservatives as "more likely to be drawn to brainier occupations, like engineering, science and economics."
OK, Steve, are Armey's comments inappropriate or not?
MALZBERG: No. First of all, I do not think the Jewish community is split evenly between liberals and conservatives. I think it's bee a long time now very apparent that the Jewish community votes overwhelmingly liberal and democratic.
That is starting to change right now, and I think that has a lot of Democrats who are voicing their displeasure with these remarks as giving them an excuse to try to remedy the situation because many more Jews are going Republican. But traditionally, it has always been Jews vote democratic almost down the line, almost without a blink. So I do not think Dick Armey's remarks to a mostly Jewish audience are offensive or anything else.
NEVILLE: Go ahead.
BLUTE: I think it was mostly aimed at liberalism rather than Jews. He was speaking to a Jewish audience; he's a strong supporter of Israel.
I think he was basically making a comment about liberals and why they do not support conservative causes.
NEVILLE: So does that make it OK, Peter?
BLUTE: I do not think it is such a big deal. The Democrats have a strategy that they've rolled out in every election cycle that I can remember. Right before the election they seize on some perceived comment by a Republican leader somewhere, whether it's Newt Gingrich or somebody else.
GASKINS: Some perceived comment?
BLUTE: And say oh my god, they've offended some group.
SCHWEITZER: Look, first of all, the Democrats and Republicans all seize on comments by each other and the rhetoric goes through the roof. I think in this case probably he was not really directing these comments towards the Jewish population.
It was an idiotic thing to say, I think, but it also goes to show you that if you really want to get a member of the House of Representatives -- or of Congress for that matter -- to speak their mind, wait until three months before the end of their term when they're not running for reelection and they'll tell you exactly how they feel about everything.
NEVILLE: And he's like, what do I have to lose, right?
GASKINS: Well what he also did in this situation is he was saying that he didn't think the Jews would be offended by this. And is he speaking for Jewish people now as well? I mean it was an idiotic comment to make. It showed his own ignorance in making it.
NEVILLE: Oh well. The audience...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean that's your opinion. Others have a different opinion.
MALZBERG: It was liberals versus conservatives. That's what he was defining. He wasn't talking about Jews.
GASKINS: Well he's saying that anybody that pursues a liberal arts education is less intelligent than someone that goes into science or engineering. What a silly thing to say.
SCHWEITZER: Well, look -- and I'll be quite happy to say -- if they accuse liberals of going after professions of the heart, hey, I am perfectly happy to accept that role.
GASKINS: Well maybe part a of the problems that we're having now is people are not thinking both intellectually and with the heart. And that is why we are having some of the problems that we are having now.
NEVILLE: Interesting.
MALZBERG: Well we know that the liberals are thinking with, they are thinking with the election in mind. That's what they're thinking with, the liberals in Washington absolutely.
GASKINS: And the conservatives are not thinking that way? MALZBERG: No, the conservatives remember September 11 and they remember that down the street here there were 2,000 Americans evaporated, and they're trying to prevent that from happening again without playing politics.
SCHWEITZER: Which is why a lot of Democrats...
GASKINS: So you don't think that he's playing politics with his comment that he was making?
MALZBERG: No, he's giving his opinion.
GASKINS: That's naive on your part.
SCHWEITZER: Well, you know I think Democrats are interested in the war on terrorism, and that's why a lot of them have turned around and said what happened to our pursuit of al Qaeda? Why isn't that our purpose anymore?
MALZBERG: It's continuing. It's not stopping.
SCHWEITZER: We've gone after Iraq, no al Qaeda (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWEITZER: We haven't found any of those people and we're starting a new war now. I don't understand why...
BLUTE: We've been in the Philippines.
MALZBERG: It's the same war. It's the same war. And one thing has nothing to do with stopping the other thing. It's a continuous process.
We're going against al Qaeda, we're getting them in Yemen right now. We have troops on the ground there. We're going after them in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
It's not going to prevent this. We're not going to stop one and start the other. It's all the same war.
BLUTE: Plus, there's very strong indications.
GASKINS: How did we get back to this? I thought we were talking about Dick Armey's comments. How did you all slip back into this?
MALZBERG: Because they weren't that offensive to anybody.
GASKINS: Well, yes, it was offensive. I think it was very offensive. And it certainly shows his insensitivity.
MALZBERG: Oh sensitivity is overplayed sometimes, believe me.
SCHWEITZER: Well I think Dick Armey has also never been a guy who had anything particularly pleasant to say about liberals in general. GASKINS: Well, yes, that's very true. So you're right.
SCHWEITZER: So I don't think anybody is too shocked by the fact he was outspoken on this one.
NEVILLE: OK. I'm going to let Bob (ph) from Tennessee jump in here. Go ahead, Bob (ph).
BOB: I'd like to say Yolanda is doing an excellent job moderating the group. And you know the panel members may be worried about their jobs.
Dick Armey sounds like he is grooming himself for a career in talk radio. He's becoming less of a moderate congressman and more of just an (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
So, yes, it was not a smart thing for him to say. I don't think that anybody in particular was offended in the audience. I can probably understand that. But he is definitely speaking along party lines and ideology lines and not speaking as a real smart congressman.
NEVILLE: OK. Let's go to Illinois, where Andy (ph) is standing by on the phone. Go ahead, Andy (ph).
CALLER: Hi, Arthel.
I just want to say that I do not think that he is insulting anybody. I think that he is talking for the American people about the bickering going back between the Republicans and the Democrats, and I this I the American people are sick of it.
GASKINS: Did you hear the statement? Did you hear the statement that he made? You don't think he is offending anyone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was so bad about the statement? What was so bad about it?
NEVILLE: The caller is gone, Yolanda. Listen, I have to take a break right now.
And up next: Kentucky's governor says he doesn't want to talk about his affair anymore, but he could have a lot of explaining to do, and not just to his wife. We'll talk about that, as TALKBACK LIVE continues.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody, to TALKBACK LIVE.
Kentucky Governor Paul Patton has admitted having a sexual relationship with Tina Connor (ph), a nursing home owner. She's suing him, saying Patton punished her by having state regulators crack down on her business after she broke off the affair.
But Patton, who was expected to make a run for the Senate, says he doesn't want to talk about it to reporters anymore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. PAUL PATTON (D), KENTUCKY: I do not anticipate personally answering any further questions about my private personal life or personal legal issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK. So Patton says he'll take himself out of the political arena, which could mean that run for U.S. Senate. Does that put the governor in a position to decline further comment on his personal life -- Gareth.
SCHWEITZER: Well, I think he'd probably do well either way, since he still has a little time left in office to say something about this. But he should probably separate the two issues.
One, I think voters can decide on their own how much an affair has a bearing on someone's ability to be a good politician. That's for each voter to decide. If he was using his office somehow to exert undue influence against this woman, well that could be something criminal. And that probably is something which should be looked into.
NEVILLE: Peter.
GASKINS: Yes, I totally agree with that.
BLUTE: Yes, I agree with that, absolutely. There's a distinction there. And if the governor used his official arm to go out and harass this woman in her business, for whatever purpose, for whatever reason, then that should be investigated. There should be hearings in Kentucky about that.
That's a misuse of power.
NEVILLE: Steve.
MALZBERG: Well I agree with the separation concept. I mean since when is an elected official -- does he have personal legal problems that he won't talk about. If my elected official is in trouble with the law, he better talk about it or he better step down. So I don't think you could shut out the public from that.
I do think he's qualified himself...
NEVILLE: OK, Steve, let me -- I'm going to have to cut you off. Please excuse me, but we're going to go to the White House now, the press room, where Ari Fleischer is briefing reporters in the daily briefing. Let's listen.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)
NEVILLE: OK. We've been listening to Ari Fleischer briefing reporters at the press room in the White House.
And right now, I have a reaction from an audience member. Her name is Doris (ph). What do you have to say, Doris (ph)?
DORIS: I'm just very frustrated by the Bush administration's insinuation that if I have a different point of view I'm unpatriotic somehow.
NEVILLE: OK. Quick comment from the panel. Go ahead, Steve.
MALZBERG: Well, I don't think the Bush administration is saying that at all. But they're specifically referring to the Senate, which is holding up homeland security for the simple reason of making sure those workers are unionized. And the president is saying to operate homeland security I need the ability to move workers, fire the ones that don't do the job right, and putting them in a union...
NEVILLE: And that is the last word. Steve, I'm out of time. Yolanda, Steve, Gareth and Peter, thank you so much for joining me here today. I'm Arthel Neville. I'll see you again tomorrow for more TALKBACK LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Apology?; Are Congressmen, Bush Playing Politics on Iraq Question?; Should Madelyne Toogood's Daughter be Returned to Her?>
Aired September 25, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, HOST: Hello, everybody, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle is demanding an apology from President Bush. We'll find out if Daschle deserves one. Plus, look at who's playing politics with Iraq as we close in on the midterm elections. Then stay tuned and see if Congressman Dick Armey's comments about Jews was out of line. And is there any reason to keep Madelyne Toogood away from her daughter?
First, let's meet our panel. Yolanda Gaskins is an attorney and radio talk show host in Dallas, Texas. Steve Malzberg is a radio talk show host on WABC in New York and columnist for NewsMax.com. Gareth Schweitzer is a White House correspondent for the Talk Radio News Service. And Peter Blute is a radio talk show host on WRKO in Boston. He is a former congressman. And his morning show is called "Blute and Ozone."
I want to thank all of you for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: Good, good, good.
OK, let's start with why Senator Daschle thinks President Bush owes Democrats an apology. Here's what Daschle said this morning on the Senate floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: The president is quoted in "The Washington Post" this morning as saying that the Democratic-controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people.
Not interested in the security of the American people? You tell Senator Inouye he is not interested in the security of the American people. You tell those who fought in Vietnam and in World War II they are not interested in the security of the American people. That is outrageous, outrageous. The president ought to apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: CNN senior White House correspondent John King joins us to explain what the president and others said to get that response -- John,
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Arthel, let me start by saying Senator Daschle is not going to get the apology he demands, White House aides saying they think the senator is out of line here.
And they think this is evidence of the frustration many Democrats have, because we are five weeks from the election season. The Democrats want it to be about the economy and about health care and it is a campaign very much dominated -- at least the discussion here in Washington -- by the war on terrorism and now the confrontation with Iraq.
The White House makes this distinction. You heard Senator Daschle quote from the newspaper, saying the president said the Democratic-controlled Senate does not have the security interests, does not care about the security interests of the United States of America. The president never used in his speech the word "Democratic- controlled." He said "the Senate." It is the newspaper that added the words "Democratic-controlled."
Elsewhere in that same speech, the president said both Republicans and Democrats were helping him. This comment was directed specifically to the fight over the homeland security bill and the fight between the president, who wants broad powers to hire, fire, move people around, Democrats, who, at the request of labor unions, want some specific regulations about the workplace. So the White House thinks this is being blown out of proportion and they think it is a sign of frustration among the Democrats as the elections get closer.
NEVILLE: Now, John, Ari Fleischer is going to address reporters in about 25 minutes. What do you think he is going to say about all of this?
KING: Well, he will say, we are told, first and foremost, that there is no apology planned by the White House.
And what you might hear him say publicly is what we are being told by other White House officials who are not on camera. So we will see if Ari Fleischer goes as far. They say if Senator Daschle wants to blame someone for politicizing the war this week, perhaps he should give Al Gore a call and refer to the speech the former vice president and former Bush rival gave earlier this week in which he was sharply critical of the president.
Senator Tom Daschle also criticized Vice President Cheney, saying that Vice President Cheney said a Republican candidate in Kansas would be preferable to the Democrat when it came to waging the war effort and supporting the president on the war effort. The White House is saying a Kansas newspaper wrote a story that said that, but if you go back and look at what Mr. Cheney said, he never made that direct comparison.
So the White House is saying here is that Senator Daschle should be more careful before he delivers these speeches. But let's be clear. There is a sentiment among Republicans that any debate that focuses on Iraq and homeland security helps the party heading into the election. The president said today that this is his job, that he is going to talk about it at every appearance. You have tensions between the Democrats and the Republicans, perhaps to be expected this close to the election.
But the issues, of course, are of grave concern, because we are talking about war and the possibility of military action in Iraq.
NEVILLE: Absolutely.
John King, thank you very much for that report.
OK, panel, I want to bring you in on this discussion right now. Does Daschle have a point or is he way off base?
I'm going to start with you, Yolanda.
YOLANDA GASKINS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This whole thing is very disheartening to me.
And I'm sure a lot of the American people -- somehow, I think a lot of us thought that, after September 11, some of this political craziness would end, some of the name-calling, some of the jumping to conclusions. But, apparently, it is never going to end. And I think that it just really takes the focus off the real problems that we have in America right now.
NEVILLE: Which are?
GASKINS: Well, how long is this show? We are going to be going through a lot of them, but No. 1, the economy; No. 2, what is going on with the possibility of war; the stock market.
I mean, there are a lot of things that are going on internally right now. And somehow I feel that this kind of bickering needs to be put to an end. And I was optimistic that, after September 11, that some of this would happen. But I think my optimism was a little bit too fast.
NEVILLE: Peter Blute, how do you see it?
PETER BLUTE, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think there is growing frustration in the White House that the Senate has not acted on this homeland security bill fully a year after 9/11.
And it appears they are holding it up at the request of a special interest group, organized labor, who are very invested in the Democratic politicians. I think national security should come first. Bush is right that this is a different type of agency. It should not be just another regular agency. You should be able to hire and fire very quickly, depending on performance and depending on need.
NEVILLE: Steve?
STEVE MALZBERG, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I agree with everything that was just stated. Obviously, they are playing politics in an effort to support the unions. When it comes to national security, you need to be able to move people around.
But Tom Daschle, I would like somebody to talk about Tom Daschle playing politics. Four years ago, in 1998, Tom Daschle was one of the co-sponsors of a bill in the Senate that authorized President Clinton to take whatever action necessary against Iraq if they did not live up to all the U.N. resolutions.
And also today, Tom Daschle said that George Bush's father had it right in 1991. He got international support and an international coalition. But guess what? In 1991, Tom Daschle voted no for the war. So who is playing politics here?
NEVILLE: Gareth, you answer that question.
GARETH SCHWEITZER, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Well, look, first of all, I would like to point out that they have now basically claimed that a special interest is anything that disagrees with the White House. These labor unions represent the workers who are going to work in this new department. So, in essence, what the Democrats are doing is, they're representing the people, the citizens of the United States who are going to work here.
In terms of the apology, no, Tom Daschle does not deserve an apology. Neither does the administration. This is the politics of the Bush administration riding a winning horse. Nothing is more popular than a war before it's started, there's been any casualties, there's been any bloodshed. And nothing is more unpopular than an economy that's sinking. They are getting on the horse that is winning the race.
NEVILLE: OK, listen, I want to let the audience speak out right now, beginning with Dennis (ph).
DENNIS: Well, right now, the economy is in pretty bad shape. And the potential war that we are having with Iraq is acting as a convenient shield for the president. And it allows him to not focus on the economy and all the other things that are happening at home.
NEVILLE: So, are you saying there may be a little bit of politics at play here?
DENNIS: Yes.
NEVILLE: OK.
Let's see what Diane (ph) has to say. She's joining us from Washington.
DIANE: Well, I think we have to use a lot of common sense here. If we don't keep a lid on our security and on the war on terror, we are not even going to have economy left to work on. It's just going to disappear.
NEVILLE: OK, thanks, Diane (ph), for that comment. Listen, we have to take a break right now, but I want to hear from you a little bit more on this. Who owes whom an apology? Of course, you can give me a call me at 1-800-310-4CNN or e-mail TALKBACK@CNN.com.
Plus, you'll hear from a senator who accuses the president of trading soldiers' lives for votes. The talk continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Today on TALKBACK LIVE: What did House Majority Leader Dick Armey say about liberal Jews? And are Democrats right to condemn him? Also, Kentucky Governor Paul Patton admits to an affair, but now tells reporters he does not want to talk about it anymore. Straying politicians and the media: How much coverage is too much?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The blood of our sons and daughters, our soldiers, sailors and airmen have far more value than a few votes in a ballot box. There's nothing more sobering than the decision to go to war. But the administration has turned the decision into a bumper sticker election theme.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody.
You just heard Senator Byrd accuse President Bush of turning Iraq into a bumper sticker election issue. Speaking on the Senate floor today, Byrd also said that, in 50 years, he has never seen a president or a vice president stoop to such low levels.
OK, I am going to address the panel again on this.
I think, Yolanda, I want to ask you this. Do you think that this is about something else?
OK, listen, what I am going to do right now is go to a phone call, where I have got Neil (ph), who is standing by from Connecticut.
Go ahead, Neil (ph). What do you have to say about all of this?
CALLER: Arthel, big fan, first-time caller.
First of all, thank God for John King. He seems to be the only man in Washington who seems to be able to read a newspaper. I am just hoping he can give some "Hooked on Phonics" lessons to Tom Daschle.
My problem with Daschle, though, is this. He did a beautiful job of talking in sound bites. And the media -- and I'm not faulting CNN. All the other networks are going to do this, too. They are going to continue playing that Daschle sound bite over and over again. And people who can only hear the things that they want to hear are going to make the mistake of assuming that Daschle knows what he's talking about.
And people who won't take the time to find out what the president really said will keep hearing all this wrong information and assuming it is the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: So, then, Neil (ph), how do you see it?
CALLER: I see what John King has been saying, that the president's comments were taken completely out of context. He is not talking about whether the World War II veterans in Congress care about security.
In fact, one of the things that was pointed out was that Bush was not even talking specifically about the Democrats in Congress. The fact that Democrats control the Congress was something that was inserted into Bush's quote by "The Washington Post." They put it in those square brackets that are around the quote that the press inserts when they want to add their own spin to what ever somebody really says.
NEVILLE: But I am just wondering now, is the Senate not dominated by the Democrats?
CALLER: Well, it is, but Bush did not single out the Democrats when he made the comment. He is talking about Congress, the entire body. He didn't say the Democrats in Congress don't care.
He said that Congress, by sitting on their hands, the way they have been doing with this issue right from the very beginning and not getting the work done that the people want done, he is painting Congress with a broad brush, instead of just the Democrats. The Democrats are going: "Oh, no, he is saying nasty things about the Democrats. It must be political."
NEVILLE: OK. All right, Neil (ph), thank you very much for calling us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.
And who was that with the big grin on? Was it Gareth? Steve.
Go ahead, Steve. What are you thinking?
MALZBERG: Well, I am thinking back to Senator Byrd and how good it is to hear from the former KKK member trashing Bush and Cheney as the most despicable one-two combo in the United States and the White House in 50 years. He has got a heck of nerve, let me tell you that. Talking about misinformation, the press never likes to mention the fact that he was a former proud KKK member.
Look, the fact the matter is, your studio audience member had it right. We could have the greatest economy in the world. If we can't take a bus, if we can't go to a pizza place, if we can't go to a mall, if we can't send our kids to school without the fear of them being blown up, like it is in Israel, then our economy and our country and our freedom is worth nothing. So the president is focusing on keeping us safe, which is the primary function of this government or any government.
NEVILLE: OK. I think you might want to hear what Peggy (ph) has to say, Steve.
PEGGY: Yes.
There is an opinion going around that this war, part of the motivation for it is to boost the economy and also to establish a stronger U.S. military presence in the Middle East to keep a tighter handle on the world oil supply.
NEVILLE: OK, thanks, Peggy (ph).
Listen, I want to share an e-mail with you right now -- if we can pop that up. It is from Bill in Delaware. He says, "Bush's remark is so outrageous that every senator should demand a personal apology."
On that note, we are going to go to the phones now, California, where we have -- oh, another e-mail from Dan in Iowa: "Bush is warning America that we will be hit again if something isn't done about Iraq now. Bush owes no one anything."
OK, now we will go to California, where we have a caller standing by.
Dan, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes.
Bush is exactly right. He does not owe anybody an apology. I am a retired Navy. I don't appreciate Daschle using the veterans for his little political scores.
NEVILLE: OK, sir, thank you for calling in.
And, Gareth, I want to hear your response right now.
SCHWEITZER: Well, first of all, what Senator Byrd's history of prejudice has to do with anything, I'm not sure about. And, quite frankly if you go into the history of a number of Republicans, you will find more of the same thing.
MALZBERG: Oh, really. How many are KKK members, sir? Where's many of the same thing? Give me one.
SCHWEITZER: First of all, you can go into the past of people like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond and find exactly the same things that you are talking about.
MALZBERG: They're KKK members?
SCHWEITZER: You know that as well as I do.
But my point was that these are irrelevant to the point and it's all rhetoric, because the reality of it is, the president went from 2 1/2, three months ago, saying he was going to make a case for war in Iraq, to three months later, saying he made the case for war, without stopping in the middle to actually make that case.
There is nothing that's been said in the last three months. And thank goodness for Democrats like Dennis Kucinich and Nancy Pelosi, who seem to be the only ones on the Democratic side of the aisle saying that, saying, "Listen, we have heard nothing in the last three months which has given us any indication that there is any new threat behind Saddam Hussein."
But the Democratic Party has rolled over, fearing losing this election, and let the president's war machine steamroll them. And I think that is terribly unfortunate. The opposition party should be the one asking a lot of questions right now.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVILLE: OK, listen, I have an interesting guest in the audience, if I will. His name in is Brian. He joins us from England. I would like to hear what he has to say about this.
Brian?
BRIAN: Yes.
We have a similar problem in England. People are saying that Tony Blair is using Iraq to cover up the internal problems that we've got. I think it is possibly convenient in some ways. But I think there is enough of an opposition, people pointing out the problems that we do have, that I think there's plenty of people getting on with the internal things while the people at the top deal with the big problems of the world.
NEVILLE: All right, Brian, thank you very much
It is time for a break.
Up next: Is it time to stop talking so much about Iraq and do something about the economy? It's on your mind. We have already been talking about it. So how is your 401(k) doing?
Give us a call. We're going to hear from you.
TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: The market may be up today, but overall Wall Street has been in a steady decline: the Dow reaching four-year lows this week; the Nasdaq at a six-year low; 401(k)s losing so much, some people put their retirements on hold. The Census Bureau reports the poverty rate was up last year and median household income was down. But, in the midst of all the gloom, President Bush says he's optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, I'm optimistic because, one, I'm optimistic about America in general. I mean, the American people are resilient, they're strong, we've got the best workers in the world, inflation is down, interest rates are low. So when you combine the productivity of the American people with low interest rates and low inflation, those are the ingredients for growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK, Yolanda, I want to ask you first, is President Bush downplaying the state of the economy or not?
GASKINS: Well, I believe he can be optimistic. He does not quite have the same concern about money that most of us have. A lot of people are not even opening their financial statements now because they are so bad and so depressing.
With the median income of moderate families going down, I think that is something really to be concerned about, because that is really the backbone of our society. So, when we talk about tax cuts and we put so much emphasis on tax cuts, we need to be concerned about making some income so that we can worry about the taxes after that.
NEVILLE: Listen, I want to hear what David (ph) has to say. He's standing in our audience.
DAVID: I just find it really interesting as far as the timing on all this. This has come up in the last couple months. And six or eight months ago, we were not even talking about attacking Iraq. And all the sudden, it's become such an issue. And as we approach election time, it seems to be even more of an issue. And it just kind of seems a little bit odd, the timing on all this.
NEVILLE: And, Rick (ph), what do you say?
RICK: I find it disturbing that we as Americans would believe that George Bush would actually use a situation such as this to distract attention from the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
RICK: I think to accuse him of doing such a thing is to assume that the threat is not real. Ladies and gentlemen, the threat is real. And I think we all believe that the threat is real.
BLUTE: Arthel...
NEVILLE: Go ahead, Peter.
BLUTE: When I was in Congress, I was a Republican. And President Clinton asked my support on deployments in Bosnia and elsewhere. And I supported him because he was the president of the United States. He thought it was in our national interests. Some people accused him of playing politics with some of his deployments. But I didn't. I thought it was the right thing to do.
There's no election in Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair is not facing the voters anytime soon, yet he believes very strongly that Saddam Hussein is pursuing weapons of mass destruction. I think what President Bush is saying, we don't have to time to wait. Whether there's an election or not, we have to act and act quickly to prevent another 9/11 that would be 100 times worse.
NEVILLE: OK, panel, hang on for me. I have Keyshawn (ph) in the audience from New York.
KEYSHAWN: Yes.
I just believe everything that is going on is just taking place from the word God. In the Book of Matthew, he said that there would be rumors of wars, because it is the last days that is taking place. So, as far as Bush, Bush is just being used as a tool right now to fulfill what God has spoken. And in America, what we need to do is repent. And once we repent, then God will bless us from there. And we need to be secure in him. And when we are secure in him, then God will fulfill everything else.
NEVILLE: OK, thank you, sir, so much for your statement, sir.
And I want to go to Minnesota, where Diane is standing by on the phone.
Diane, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes.
I think that Bush has tunnel vision. All he is concerned about is Iraq. I was laid off in January. I am still unemployed. I am more worried about the economy and how I am going to pay my bills.
NEVILLE: Gareth, I think I see you shaking your head. Quick comment.
SCHWEITZER: Well, I agree. I think the president -- and they have said it all along, that this is not their fault; it's left over from the Clinton administration. Well, the question is, we are two years in now. When does this become the Bush administration's responsibility?
I don't think that they have created the war in Iraq to get rid of the economic problems, but it's certainly a nice coincidence. And it has allowed the president to let economic issues slip farther and farther off of his agenda. It is their problem now. They need to deal with it.
NEVILLE: OK, listen...
GASKINS: At the very least, what he's done is...
NEVILLE: I'm sorry, Yolanda. I have to take a break. I'm sorry about that.
But up next: Maybe this is the day for apologies. Some Democrats think House Majority Leader Dick Armey owes a big one to Jews. We'll tell you why after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(INTERRUPTED BY NEWS UPDATE)
NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE.
What did House Majority Leader Dick Armey say about Jews? Some congressional Democrats are calling his words "breathtaking in their ignorance," and have condemned them.
Armey was at a roundtable discussion in Florida with a mostly Jewish audience. He was asked why the Jewish-American community is so divided between liberals and conservatives. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK ARMEY, HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I always see two Jewish communities in America: the Jewish community of intellectual depth is the one that I know best. And then there's the Jewish community of, what I would call, shallow intellect and the arts."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Armey went on to say liberals work in occupations "of the heart," liberals; while he described conservatives as "more likely to be drawn to brainier occupations, like engineering, science and economics."
OK, Steve, are Armey's comments inappropriate or not?
MALZBERG: No. First of all, I do not think the Jewish community is split evenly between liberals and conservatives. I think it's bee a long time now very apparent that the Jewish community votes overwhelmingly liberal and democratic.
That is starting to change right now, and I think that has a lot of Democrats who are voicing their displeasure with these remarks as giving them an excuse to try to remedy the situation because many more Jews are going Republican. But traditionally, it has always been Jews vote democratic almost down the line, almost without a blink. So I do not think Dick Armey's remarks to a mostly Jewish audience are offensive or anything else.
NEVILLE: Go ahead.
BLUTE: I think it was mostly aimed at liberalism rather than Jews. He was speaking to a Jewish audience; he's a strong supporter of Israel.
I think he was basically making a comment about liberals and why they do not support conservative causes.
NEVILLE: So does that make it OK, Peter?
BLUTE: I do not think it is such a big deal. The Democrats have a strategy that they've rolled out in every election cycle that I can remember. Right before the election they seize on some perceived comment by a Republican leader somewhere, whether it's Newt Gingrich or somebody else.
GASKINS: Some perceived comment?
BLUTE: And say oh my god, they've offended some group.
SCHWEITZER: Look, first of all, the Democrats and Republicans all seize on comments by each other and the rhetoric goes through the roof. I think in this case probably he was not really directing these comments towards the Jewish population.
It was an idiotic thing to say, I think, but it also goes to show you that if you really want to get a member of the House of Representatives -- or of Congress for that matter -- to speak their mind, wait until three months before the end of their term when they're not running for reelection and they'll tell you exactly how they feel about everything.
NEVILLE: And he's like, what do I have to lose, right?
GASKINS: Well what he also did in this situation is he was saying that he didn't think the Jews would be offended by this. And is he speaking for Jewish people now as well? I mean it was an idiotic comment to make. It showed his own ignorance in making it.
NEVILLE: Oh well. The audience...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean that's your opinion. Others have a different opinion.
MALZBERG: It was liberals versus conservatives. That's what he was defining. He wasn't talking about Jews.
GASKINS: Well he's saying that anybody that pursues a liberal arts education is less intelligent than someone that goes into science or engineering. What a silly thing to say.
SCHWEITZER: Well, look -- and I'll be quite happy to say -- if they accuse liberals of going after professions of the heart, hey, I am perfectly happy to accept that role.
GASKINS: Well maybe part a of the problems that we're having now is people are not thinking both intellectually and with the heart. And that is why we are having some of the problems that we are having now.
NEVILLE: Interesting.
MALZBERG: Well we know that the liberals are thinking with, they are thinking with the election in mind. That's what they're thinking with, the liberals in Washington absolutely.
GASKINS: And the conservatives are not thinking that way? MALZBERG: No, the conservatives remember September 11 and they remember that down the street here there were 2,000 Americans evaporated, and they're trying to prevent that from happening again without playing politics.
SCHWEITZER: Which is why a lot of Democrats...
GASKINS: So you don't think that he's playing politics with his comment that he was making?
MALZBERG: No, he's giving his opinion.
GASKINS: That's naive on your part.
SCHWEITZER: Well, you know I think Democrats are interested in the war on terrorism, and that's why a lot of them have turned around and said what happened to our pursuit of al Qaeda? Why isn't that our purpose anymore?
MALZBERG: It's continuing. It's not stopping.
SCHWEITZER: We've gone after Iraq, no al Qaeda (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWEITZER: We haven't found any of those people and we're starting a new war now. I don't understand why...
BLUTE: We've been in the Philippines.
MALZBERG: It's the same war. It's the same war. And one thing has nothing to do with stopping the other thing. It's a continuous process.
We're going against al Qaeda, we're getting them in Yemen right now. We have troops on the ground there. We're going after them in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
It's not going to prevent this. We're not going to stop one and start the other. It's all the same war.
BLUTE: Plus, there's very strong indications.
GASKINS: How did we get back to this? I thought we were talking about Dick Armey's comments. How did you all slip back into this?
MALZBERG: Because they weren't that offensive to anybody.
GASKINS: Well, yes, it was offensive. I think it was very offensive. And it certainly shows his insensitivity.
MALZBERG: Oh sensitivity is overplayed sometimes, believe me.
SCHWEITZER: Well I think Dick Armey has also never been a guy who had anything particularly pleasant to say about liberals in general. GASKINS: Well, yes, that's very true. So you're right.
SCHWEITZER: So I don't think anybody is too shocked by the fact he was outspoken on this one.
NEVILLE: OK. I'm going to let Bob (ph) from Tennessee jump in here. Go ahead, Bob (ph).
BOB: I'd like to say Yolanda is doing an excellent job moderating the group. And you know the panel members may be worried about their jobs.
Dick Armey sounds like he is grooming himself for a career in talk radio. He's becoming less of a moderate congressman and more of just an (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
So, yes, it was not a smart thing for him to say. I don't think that anybody in particular was offended in the audience. I can probably understand that. But he is definitely speaking along party lines and ideology lines and not speaking as a real smart congressman.
NEVILLE: OK. Let's go to Illinois, where Andy (ph) is standing by on the phone. Go ahead, Andy (ph).
CALLER: Hi, Arthel.
I just want to say that I do not think that he is insulting anybody. I think that he is talking for the American people about the bickering going back between the Republicans and the Democrats, and I this I the American people are sick of it.
GASKINS: Did you hear the statement? Did you hear the statement that he made? You don't think he is offending anyone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was so bad about the statement? What was so bad about it?
NEVILLE: The caller is gone, Yolanda. Listen, I have to take a break right now.
And up next: Kentucky's governor says he doesn't want to talk about his affair anymore, but he could have a lot of explaining to do, and not just to his wife. We'll talk about that, as TALKBACK LIVE continues.
(APPLAUSE)
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NEVILLE: Welcome back, everybody, to TALKBACK LIVE.
Kentucky Governor Paul Patton has admitted having a sexual relationship with Tina Connor (ph), a nursing home owner. She's suing him, saying Patton punished her by having state regulators crack down on her business after she broke off the affair.
But Patton, who was expected to make a run for the Senate, says he doesn't want to talk about it to reporters anymore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. PAUL PATTON (D), KENTUCKY: I do not anticipate personally answering any further questions about my private personal life or personal legal issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK. So Patton says he'll take himself out of the political arena, which could mean that run for U.S. Senate. Does that put the governor in a position to decline further comment on his personal life -- Gareth.
SCHWEITZER: Well, I think he'd probably do well either way, since he still has a little time left in office to say something about this. But he should probably separate the two issues.
One, I think voters can decide on their own how much an affair has a bearing on someone's ability to be a good politician. That's for each voter to decide. If he was using his office somehow to exert undue influence against this woman, well that could be something criminal. And that probably is something which should be looked into.
NEVILLE: Peter.
GASKINS: Yes, I totally agree with that.
BLUTE: Yes, I agree with that, absolutely. There's a distinction there. And if the governor used his official arm to go out and harass this woman in her business, for whatever purpose, for whatever reason, then that should be investigated. There should be hearings in Kentucky about that.
That's a misuse of power.
NEVILLE: Steve.
MALZBERG: Well I agree with the separation concept. I mean since when is an elected official -- does he have personal legal problems that he won't talk about. If my elected official is in trouble with the law, he better talk about it or he better step down. So I don't think you could shut out the public from that.
I do think he's qualified himself...
NEVILLE: OK, Steve, let me -- I'm going to have to cut you off. Please excuse me, but we're going to go to the White House now, the press room, where Ari Fleischer is briefing reporters in the daily briefing. Let's listen.
(INTERRUPTED FOR CNN COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)
NEVILLE: OK. We've been listening to Ari Fleischer briefing reporters at the press room in the White House.
And right now, I have a reaction from an audience member. Her name is Doris (ph). What do you have to say, Doris (ph)?
DORIS: I'm just very frustrated by the Bush administration's insinuation that if I have a different point of view I'm unpatriotic somehow.
NEVILLE: OK. Quick comment from the panel. Go ahead, Steve.
MALZBERG: Well, I don't think the Bush administration is saying that at all. But they're specifically referring to the Senate, which is holding up homeland security for the simple reason of making sure those workers are unionized. And the president is saying to operate homeland security I need the ability to move workers, fire the ones that don't do the job right, and putting them in a union...
NEVILLE: And that is the last word. Steve, I'm out of time. Yolanda, Steve, Gareth and Peter, thank you so much for joining me here today. I'm Arthel Neville. I'll see you again tomorrow for more TALKBACK LIVE.
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