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CNN Live Today
Inside Saudi Arabia: Friend or Foe?
Aired September 30, 2002 - 10:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: With the talk of a possible war in Iraq, the U.S. is taking a serious look at its friends and at its foes. Saudi Arabia could be a major player if a war does happen, but since September 11, the U.S. and the Saudis have been questioning their relationship. There is some tension there and both sides have a list of grievances.
And our Andrea Koppel explores this complex relationship between the two countries along with Saudi Arabia's potential role in the showdown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Friend or foe? As the U.S. lobbies for support for a possible war on Iraq, it is a question leaders in Saudi Arabia and the United States have been asking a lot, each about the other, and it's shaking the very foundation of this 60-year alliance, built on a basic formula: in exchange for Saudi oil, the U.S. military will defend the Saudi kingdom.
Ever since the September 11 attacks, U.S. officials say both sides have been forced to confront sensitive issues they had long ignored.
YOUSSEF IBRAHIM, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: The Saudi relationship with the United States has deteriorated to a point where I can describe it, if I want to be melodramatic, as one that is on the verge of a divorce.
KOPPEL: Publicly, both governments deny reports of a serious rift, on display last spring when Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah refused to join President Bush at a press conference after their meeting at his Texas ranch. Privately, Washington and Riyadh point to a long list of grievances. The Saudis, outraged about a classified briefing to a Pentagon advisory group suggesting Saudi Arabia should be treated as an enemy, a recent INS decision to fingerprint Saudi men, among those from other Muslim countries, who are applying for U.S. visas and a perceived bias toward Israel, which the Saudis say complicates efforts to end two years of Palestinian Israeli violence.
For its part, the U.S. criticizes the Saudis for refusing to provide enough intelligence on 15 of 19 hijackers who were Saudi citizens, accuses the kingdom of exporting and funding radical Islam, and remains unsure whether Saudi Arabia will support a war on Iraq.
In an interview with CNN this month, the Saudi foreign minister indicated his government would cooperate, but only if that action is supported by the U.N.
PRINCE SAUD AL-FAISAL, SAUDI FOREIGN MINSTER: Every country that has signed the charter of the United Nations has to fulfill that.
KOPPEL: With several thousand U.S. troops based at Prince Sultan airbase in the Saudi desert, next door to Iraq, U.S. officials say Saudi support will be very important.
(on camera): At the end of the day, explained one State Department official, there isn't a lot of leverage we can exercise with one another. The real strength of this relationship, he said, is that we both want to make it work, despite all the differences.
Andrea Koppel, CNN, at the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So exactly what would it take for the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to resolve their differences? A former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia joins us now from Washington for more insight on that.
Wyche Fowler, we thank you very much for your time, sir. Thank you very much for coming in...
WYCHE FOWLER, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Good morning -- Leon.
HARRIS: ... to talk about this. This is a very complex subject here this morning, and I'm going to take it for granted here that because of the time you spent there, you don't see this as simply a friend versus foe issue, do you?
FOWLER: No, we have a 60-year friendship, a solid friendship based on working together on everything from fighting terrorism, back when it was communist terrorism in the '60s and '70s, up through all of the training that we have done for the armed forces and their military in Saudi Arabia. And of course you know the story of our dependence on Middle East oil, Saudi oil, to -- for the United States. This is a country that has been a reliable ally. Many, many Saudis were educated in the United States and have gone home as being very pro-American and buy American and think American in many -- in many aspects. Obviously, you get into some rough patches and disagreements, mainly surrounding foreign policy issues, and this is one of those times.
HARRIS: Well do you see this -- at this particular time, do you see this relationship between the two countries being, as we heard in that report by Andrea Koppel, that one expert saying that this relationship is close to divorce here or what?
FOWLER: No, I think it may need a little counseling from cooler heads, but we'll save the marriage. Again, the foreign minister that you -- Saud Al-Faisel that you just interviewed, his father, King Faisel, was killed by a terrorist attack in 19 -- in the '70s. Bin Laden declared war on Saudi Arabia before he declared war on the United States. The Saudis have been fighting terrorists for at least two decades. And of course I was sent by President Clinton right after a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia in 1996 that killed 19 Americans but also killed Saudis. So that's when Saudi Arabia knew that it had a problem with terrorists, knew that there were cells operating, knew that there were Saudis who had become extreme terrorists and that was the beginning of our cooperation to track down al Qaeda and bin Laden himself.
So I prefer to believe President Bush and the members of his Cabinet when he says that the Saudis are cooperating. And certainly as we saw, despite the dispute over -- by some in America about our troops in the desert in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis allowed us to conduct the whole air war against Afghanistan, the terrorists in Afghanistan from that base on Saudi soil. There's far more cooperation, serious cooperation, intelligence sharing than you would believe if you listened to some pundits. They have a right to their view, but I think we will survive this patch and we need the Saudis if we're going to win this war on terrorism in any meaningful way.
HARRIS: Well let me ask you -- I'm sorry, in the final moments that we have this morning, I want to ask you about another topic that I've heard pundits mention quite a bit of late here, the fact that, in their -- in their view, that many people in Saudi Arabia and around the world believe that the U.S. has been somewhat hypocritical in promoting democracy and has not been speaking out as piscivorously (ph) about it in Saudi Arabia as they have been about it in Iraq. And that the U.S. approach to the public of Saudi Arabia by forcing that government or at least encouraging it to move toward democracy might actually help relations in the end better between these two countries. Your view on that?
FOWLER: Well, I think that we confuse that. Some times we use the term democracy just to mean Western-style Jeffersonian democracy, a sort of one size fits all for everybody in the world. I think that we in encouraging empowerment of people, in encouraging the delegation of responsibilities and openness in society, whether it be people voting or a free and open press to express themselves in non- democratic societies, America just ought to -- it would help if we realized that they're going to as they move towards democracy remember their own culture and traditions and try to fit that plan to fit the society that they govern.
HARRIS: And we're going to have to leave it there this morning.
Ambassador Wyche Fowler, thank you very much for your time this morning.
FOWLER: Always a pleasure.
HARRIS: Have a good day (ph) and take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 30, 2002 - 10:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: With the talk of a possible war in Iraq, the U.S. is taking a serious look at its friends and at its foes. Saudi Arabia could be a major player if a war does happen, but since September 11, the U.S. and the Saudis have been questioning their relationship. There is some tension there and both sides have a list of grievances.
And our Andrea Koppel explores this complex relationship between the two countries along with Saudi Arabia's potential role in the showdown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Friend or foe? As the U.S. lobbies for support for a possible war on Iraq, it is a question leaders in Saudi Arabia and the United States have been asking a lot, each about the other, and it's shaking the very foundation of this 60-year alliance, built on a basic formula: in exchange for Saudi oil, the U.S. military will defend the Saudi kingdom.
Ever since the September 11 attacks, U.S. officials say both sides have been forced to confront sensitive issues they had long ignored.
YOUSSEF IBRAHIM, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: The Saudi relationship with the United States has deteriorated to a point where I can describe it, if I want to be melodramatic, as one that is on the verge of a divorce.
KOPPEL: Publicly, both governments deny reports of a serious rift, on display last spring when Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah refused to join President Bush at a press conference after their meeting at his Texas ranch. Privately, Washington and Riyadh point to a long list of grievances. The Saudis, outraged about a classified briefing to a Pentagon advisory group suggesting Saudi Arabia should be treated as an enemy, a recent INS decision to fingerprint Saudi men, among those from other Muslim countries, who are applying for U.S. visas and a perceived bias toward Israel, which the Saudis say complicates efforts to end two years of Palestinian Israeli violence.
For its part, the U.S. criticizes the Saudis for refusing to provide enough intelligence on 15 of 19 hijackers who were Saudi citizens, accuses the kingdom of exporting and funding radical Islam, and remains unsure whether Saudi Arabia will support a war on Iraq.
In an interview with CNN this month, the Saudi foreign minister indicated his government would cooperate, but only if that action is supported by the U.N.
PRINCE SAUD AL-FAISAL, SAUDI FOREIGN MINSTER: Every country that has signed the charter of the United Nations has to fulfill that.
KOPPEL: With several thousand U.S. troops based at Prince Sultan airbase in the Saudi desert, next door to Iraq, U.S. officials say Saudi support will be very important.
(on camera): At the end of the day, explained one State Department official, there isn't a lot of leverage we can exercise with one another. The real strength of this relationship, he said, is that we both want to make it work, despite all the differences.
Andrea Koppel, CNN, at the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So exactly what would it take for the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to resolve their differences? A former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia joins us now from Washington for more insight on that.
Wyche Fowler, we thank you very much for your time, sir. Thank you very much for coming in...
WYCHE FOWLER, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Good morning -- Leon.
HARRIS: ... to talk about this. This is a very complex subject here this morning, and I'm going to take it for granted here that because of the time you spent there, you don't see this as simply a friend versus foe issue, do you?
FOWLER: No, we have a 60-year friendship, a solid friendship based on working together on everything from fighting terrorism, back when it was communist terrorism in the '60s and '70s, up through all of the training that we have done for the armed forces and their military in Saudi Arabia. And of course you know the story of our dependence on Middle East oil, Saudi oil, to -- for the United States. This is a country that has been a reliable ally. Many, many Saudis were educated in the United States and have gone home as being very pro-American and buy American and think American in many -- in many aspects. Obviously, you get into some rough patches and disagreements, mainly surrounding foreign policy issues, and this is one of those times.
HARRIS: Well do you see this -- at this particular time, do you see this relationship between the two countries being, as we heard in that report by Andrea Koppel, that one expert saying that this relationship is close to divorce here or what?
FOWLER: No, I think it may need a little counseling from cooler heads, but we'll save the marriage. Again, the foreign minister that you -- Saud Al-Faisel that you just interviewed, his father, King Faisel, was killed by a terrorist attack in 19 -- in the '70s. Bin Laden declared war on Saudi Arabia before he declared war on the United States. The Saudis have been fighting terrorists for at least two decades. And of course I was sent by President Clinton right after a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia in 1996 that killed 19 Americans but also killed Saudis. So that's when Saudi Arabia knew that it had a problem with terrorists, knew that there were cells operating, knew that there were Saudis who had become extreme terrorists and that was the beginning of our cooperation to track down al Qaeda and bin Laden himself.
So I prefer to believe President Bush and the members of his Cabinet when he says that the Saudis are cooperating. And certainly as we saw, despite the dispute over -- by some in America about our troops in the desert in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis allowed us to conduct the whole air war against Afghanistan, the terrorists in Afghanistan from that base on Saudi soil. There's far more cooperation, serious cooperation, intelligence sharing than you would believe if you listened to some pundits. They have a right to their view, but I think we will survive this patch and we need the Saudis if we're going to win this war on terrorism in any meaningful way.
HARRIS: Well let me ask you -- I'm sorry, in the final moments that we have this morning, I want to ask you about another topic that I've heard pundits mention quite a bit of late here, the fact that, in their -- in their view, that many people in Saudi Arabia and around the world believe that the U.S. has been somewhat hypocritical in promoting democracy and has not been speaking out as piscivorously (ph) about it in Saudi Arabia as they have been about it in Iraq. And that the U.S. approach to the public of Saudi Arabia by forcing that government or at least encouraging it to move toward democracy might actually help relations in the end better between these two countries. Your view on that?
FOWLER: Well, I think that we confuse that. Some times we use the term democracy just to mean Western-style Jeffersonian democracy, a sort of one size fits all for everybody in the world. I think that we in encouraging empowerment of people, in encouraging the delegation of responsibilities and openness in society, whether it be people voting or a free and open press to express themselves in non- democratic societies, America just ought to -- it would help if we realized that they're going to as they move towards democracy remember their own culture and traditions and try to fit that plan to fit the society that they govern.
HARRIS: And we're going to have to leave it there this morning.
Ambassador Wyche Fowler, thank you very much for your time this morning.
FOWLER: Always a pleasure.
HARRIS: Have a good day (ph) and take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
