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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.N. Weapons Inspectors Reach a Deal With Iraq; White House Publicly Advocates Assassination of Saddam

Aired October 01, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Back to work? U.N. weapons inspectors reach a deal with Iraq. But President Bush isn't looking for compromise from either the U.N...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United Nations most show it's backbone, and we'll work with members of the Security Council to put a little calcium there.

BLITZER: ... or Congress.

BUSH: I don't want to get a resolution which ties my hands.

BLITZER: One way to avoid a full scale war, assassinating Saddam Hussein.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The cost of one bullet -- if the Iraqi people take it on themselves -- is substantially less than that. The cost of war is more than that.

BLITZER: Walter Cronkite and Mario Cuomo find common cause in questioning the president's Iraq policy. I'll speak live with the former governor.

Eye on the storm, the U.S. Gulf coast braces for Round 2 as Lili slashes Cuba.

This walk in the park was no walk in the park for a notorious spy, how the FBI got him. And, urban rescue, high hopes for a high rise escape shoot.

It's Tuesday, October 1, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Iraq is holding the door open for new U.N. weapons inspections and after intensive discussions, the inspectors say they're ready to take Iraq up on the offer. Our Christiane Amanpour is joining us now live from Vienna, Austria where all of these arrangements were worked out - Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf for the last two days, all eyes were on Vienna and on whether Iraq would cooperate with the U.N. This was considered a first sign of whether Iraq would show good faith, if you like, in its new confrontation over weapons inspections, and certainly after these two days, Iraq has made what amounts to a 180-degree reversal of the position it's been holding for several years. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice over): Two days of talks in Vienna led the Iraqi government to reverse the position it's held for the past four years. Iraq now says the U.N. can carry out weapons inspections mandated under existing resolutions.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: On the question of access, it was clarified that all sites are subject to immediate unconditional and unrestricted access.

AMANPOUR: All sites except the eight presidential sites. Restrictions on them were agreed to by the U.N. Secretary-General and later enshrined in a resolution. The U.S. would have to muster a majority in the Security Council to annul that deal; however, in a significant move, Iraq will not lift restrictions it imposed on other sensitive sites such as key ministry buildings.

GEN. AMR AL-SADI, IRAQI DELEGATION: We have come to a very practical arrangement that we would from our side anticipate every inspection to sort of go to sensitive sites and we will take the measures that will cancel the need for waiting period and getting approvals.

AMANPOUR: Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix says that Iraq has also agreed to all the practical arrangements for weapons inspections including the use of aircraft and helicopters for reconnaissance, although, Iraq said security in the U.S. no-fly zones was out of its hands. General Amr Al-Sadi said that he was happy agreement had been reached, and along with Blix described the talks as businesslike and focused.

Iraq also handed over four CD-ROMs containing four years of information that it owes the U.N. about what's been happening at so- called dual use facilities that inspectors inspect can be used to produce weapons of mass destruction. Both sides said weapons inspectors could be back in Iraq by mid-October.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (on camera): Now Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, has to brief the Security Council in New York on Thursday and he'll give them a much fuller briefing of what happened here than he did to us at the press conference. However, of course, two questions remain. Although Iraq has made these agreements here, will they translate to full implementation on the ground and how will the deal struck here be effected if there are newer and tougher demands issued by the United Nations? Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, it's hypothetical but if there is no new U.N. Security Council resolution, I assume the inspectors under Hans Blix directions, they just go back to Iraq under the old U.N. Security Council resolutions mandate.

AMANPOUR: Well, they've been operating under the existing Security Council resolutions and, of course, they have heard what's been coming out of the United States. Secretary Powell, others, have said that they do not want the inspectors to go back without a new resolution; however, Blix has been saying that the Security Council is his boss. Unless he gets a red light, unless he's told not to send the inspectors back by the Security Council, then he intends to send them back.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Vienna, Christiane thank you very much. The deal in Austria may not necessarily be good enough for the Bush administration as Christiane just reported. A senior State Department official says the United States will thwart efforts to send inspectors back in if the U.N. Security Council fails to first pass a new resolution backing the inspections with the threat of course. Meantime, the White House remains focused on the Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Here is our White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Bush administration's call for regime change today reached a new pitch when White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer was asked about the cost of a possible war with Iraq.

FLEISCHER: I can only say that the cost of a one-way ticket is substantially less than that. The cost of one bullet if the Iraqi people take it on themselves is substantially less than that.

MALVEAUX: Was this a signal that the Bush administration would support the Iraqi people sending Saddam into exile or possibly assassinating him?

(on camera): I'm asking you if you intend to advocate from that podium that some Iraqis -- you know, person put a bullet in his head?

FLEISCHER: Regime change is welcome in whatever form that it takes.

MALVEAUX: So the answer is yes.

FLEISCHER: Thank you. Regime change is welcome in whatever form it takes.

MALVEAUX: Fleischer later said he was simply making a rhetorical point that the U.S. policy barring assassinations of foreign leaders by U.S. officials still stands but that no one would cry over the loss of Saddam Hussein. President Bush is still trying to win support for a congressional resolution that would give him broad authority to use military force against Saddam.

But Republican Senator Richard Lugar in meetings with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and White House Counsel Al Gonzalez, is pushing for a bipartisan resolution that would give the president the green light for military action only if it's used to dismantle Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Bush is insisting he can not be limited when it comes to going after Saddam. BUSH: I don't want to get a resolution which ties my hands, a resolution which is weaker than that which was passed out of the Congress in 1998. The Congress in 1998 passed a very strong resolution. It wisely recognized that Saddam Hussein is a threat, was a threat in '98 and he's more of a threat four years later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now the president just wrapped up his meeting with House lawmakers just a moment ago. Both sides very optimistic, this group more in step with the kind of resolution the president would like to see but those lawmakers saying it's just a matter of changing a few words now. They expect there's going to be a resolution that the White House and the House will sign off on by tomorrow, by the breakfast meeting that the president will have with the congressional leaders -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, Suzanne thank you very much.

And, if the United States does go to war, the price tag could be staggering. It would cost up to $9 billion a month to fight and the Congressional Budget Office says it would cost at least that much just to get U.S. forces to the battlefield, $9 billion to deploy a quarter million personnel with 300 tanks and up to 2,500 aircraft, the so- called heavy air option, and up to $13 billion for the heavy ground option, fewer aircraft but up to 800 tanks with another 800 helicopters, big numbers indeed.

Let's turn now to the deadly situation involving Hurricane Lili. Now it's a Category 2 hurricane capable of causing considerable damage to homes, piers, and low-lying coastal areas. Lili has been pounding Cuba all day with violent winds and torrential rain and is headed toward the U.S. Gulf Coast where it's expected to make landfall Thursday.

Earlier, Lili killed seven people in Jamaica and St. Vincent. We'll go the National Hurricane Center in Miami, Florida in just a moment. First, our Havana Bureau Chief, Lucia Newman, is joining us now live with the latest on the storm's destruction. Lucia, tell us what's going on right now in Cuba.

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's hard to imagine by the looks of the things right now that a huge Category 2 hurricane has just passed but then again looks can certainly be very deceiving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN (voice-over): Unlike lightning, hurricanes do seem to strike twice in the same place, in this case in Cuba's unfortunate western province of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). For the second time is less than two weeks it's been pounded by a hurricane. Cuban television as well as our own television crews report that the worst hit area, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are cut off with trees blocking roads, no electricity, and heavy damage to homes. Ham radio operators are the only form of communication right now and they report one death so far. Along the low-lying areas of Havana province which we visited, there were also flood alerts as the seas threaten to swell into the town of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

NEWMAN (on camera): Unfortunately for Cuba, hurricanes named Lili seem to like this island and like the last Lili which struck in 1996 causing tremendous damage to central Cuba, this year's is just as unwelcome.

(voice over): In the city of Havana, the biggest threat is to some 4,000 people living in unstable and dilapidated buildings, particularly in old Havana. Authorities say some of these buildings could collapse as they often do when there is unusually heavy rain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: Wolf, we can also report that in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Lili has caused extensive damage to roads, to homes, and also to tobacco houses, which were barely left standing from the last hurricane, so in all, a very short-lived but very strong and damaging storm for this country. Wolf.

BLITZER: Lucia Newman in Havana, thank you very much. And, joining us now for the latest on Lili's strength and its speed as it heads towards the U.S. Gulf Coast, Max Mayfield he's over at the National Hurricane Center in Miami. What we just saw in Cuba, is it likely to happen here in the United States, Max?

MAX MAYFIELD, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Yes, it is and it will likely get even stronger before it reaches the U.S. coast, Wolf. You can see on the satellite imagery behind me that it's a very symmetric looking system. It definitely looks like it's getting stronger. The upper level environment is very favorable for a development. The Gulf of Mexico is very warm. I really don't see any reason why this should not continue and become a major hurricane as it gets into the Gulf of Mexico tomorrow.

Our future forecast track has it headed up into the northwestern Gulf of Mexico. We've just issued a hurricane watch from San Maritz (ph) Pass, Texas all the way across the Louisiana coast to the mouth of the Mississippi River and then we have a tropical storm watch out from the mouth of the Mississippi over to Pascagoula, Mississippi, including New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.

BLITZER: Max, it looks like New Orleans, which is of course below sea level, could be hit relatively strongly this time. How serious of a problem is it for New Orleans?

MAYFIELD: Well, it's more of a problem on our current track to the west of there. Now this is not nearly as large as Isidore was. If it stays on our track, New Orleans will not be in the worst impacted area but they obviously have to watch it very carefully. Eventually, this hurricane will turn up to the north and then eventually northeast. I can't tell you exactly when that turn is going to take place and that's why we have that hurricane watch over a large area. But the main concern right now is the upper Texas coast all the way over to the mouth of the Mississippi River, and the storm surge flooding is very, very important on this. We can have ten to 14 feet of storm surge near and to the east of where the center crosses the coast.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Max Mayfield. Thursday could be D-Day along the coast, the Gulf Coast of the United States. Thanks, we'll be staying in touch of course with you.

MAYFIELD: Thank you.

BLITZER: Switching now to the spy who was caught red-handed making a drop for Moscow outside the nation's capitol. Robert Hanssen is now in prison serving a life sentence. In a just-released FBI surveillance video, we see what happened on the day Hanssen was arrested.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): This is how you may have come to recognize Robert Hanssen or you may have seen him through the eyes of a courtroom sketch artist as he faced espionage charges. Images of one of the most notorious spies in U.S. history have for the past 20 months been confined to an official FBI snapshot and a few drawings.

But, the FBI has just released videotape of Hanssen's arrest in February, 2001. He just made a document drop for his Russian handlers at a park in Vienna, Virginia. As he's standing in a nearby residential street, agents from his very own FBI surround him, guns drawn. Hanssen shows remarkably little reaction. And, CNN has been told that he asked the agents what took them so long to catch him?

Hanssen later said he'd had a feeling he was being monitored by his colleagues but wanted to make one more drop. It was his final act of betrayal after 15 years of spying for the Soviet Union and Russia. Experts say this man being led away to an unmarked van was one of the most damaging spies in American history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: He's in prison right now for the rest of his life.

When we come back, a female serial killer who wants to die by lethal injection, lawyers are fighting to spare her life and Florida's governor has postponed her date with death. Should Aileen Wuornos have the right to decide her fate?

Plus, Noelle Bush off the hook for allegedly having crack cocaine. Find out why she won't be prosecuted.

Plus, medical news that every woman should know, breast self exams, do they really work in the fight against cancer? Our Elizabeth Cohen helps sort out controversial new findings.

But first, today's "News Quiz."

What method did the CIA use in a failed attempt to assassinate Cuban President Fidel Castro, poisoned cigars, poisoned pills, poisoned pens, all of the above? The answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A terrifying attack on a Greyhound bus traveling at freeway speed in California resulted in the deaths of two passengers and serious injuries to the driver. A suspect identified as a transient is charged with murder and attempted murder. CNN's James Hattori reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A cotton field turned triage zone after a Greyhound bus carrying 46 passengers careened off the interstate near Fresno, California Monday night, a terrifying trip caused by a sudden attack aboard the bus.

LT. MARGARET MIMS, FRESNO CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.: A passenger on the bus got up from his seat near the back, walked up the center aisle, attacked the driver of the bus with a pair of scissors stabbing him, wounding him very seriously in the neck.

MIKE MCCLURE, PASSENGER: The bus went out of control and it went off the road and it was really tumbling. We kind of were moving back and forth rough and all of a sudden it flipped on its side.

HATTORI: Two female passengers on the Los Angeles to San Francisco bus died. Three other passengers were seriously hurt, including the driver. The suspect was arrested after trying to run away from the scene. He's identified at 27-year-old Arturo Tapia Martinez (ph) described as a transient from Los Angeles. Investigators say he's given conflicting explanations for his actions.

MIMS: We're looking at under the influence of narcotics or drugs or alcohol. We're looking at maybe some health issues. We're looking at maybe he's covering up for some other crimes and so we don't know yet why. We don't have a good reason why and he's not made that clear to us.

HATTORI (on camera): Martinez faces two counts of murder and one count of attempted murder for attacking the bus driver who may have actually saved lives by steering the bus off the road despite his wounds. James Hattori CNN, Fresno County, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And checking other stories in our "Justice Files," the police department in Orlando, Florida has put its drug investigation of Governor Jeb Bush's daughter Noelle on inactive status. The move comes a day after a judge ruled that staff members at the drug treatment center, where Bush is being treated, do not have to cooperate with the investigation. The investigation was launched after another patient at the center told police that cocaine was found in Noelle Bush's shoe.

A young California man faces a seven-year prison sentence for plotting to bomb a college campus. Twenty-year-old Al Deguzman (ph) was sentenced this morning. His attorneys say he had a morbid fascination with weapons but never intended to carry out his plot. Deguzman attended Anza College in Cupertino.

After a decade and a half behind bars, a Montana man wrongly convicted of rape has won his freedom. A judge in Billings today order the release of Jimmy Ray Bromgard (ph). The recent DNA testing of evidence proved Bromgard's innocence. His attorney says misleading and fabricated testimony from the state Crime Lab director at the time helped send Bromgard to prison.

Tomorrow's planned execution of a death row inmate in Florida is back on after a mental examination found him competent. Another inmate, a female serial killer is awaiting the results of her mental examination, and as she waits Aileen Wuornos continues to fight efforts to spare her life. Here's CNN's Mark Potter with the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): Convicted serial killer Aileen Wuornos says she is ready to die. Last year she fired her lawyers, dropped her appeals and volunteered for execution. She insists she is mentally competent, despite the concerns of others.

AILEEN WUORNOS, CONVICTED SERIAL KILLER: I'm so sick of hearing that she's crazy. I've been evaluated so many times, I'm competent, sane, and I'm trying to tell the truth.

POTTER: In the early 1990s, Wuornos was convicted of killing six middle-aged men along the highways of north and central Florida where she was a prostitute. She received six death sentences. Her life has been the subject of books and movies. Now she is the focus of a legal debate.

RAAG SINGHAL, FORMER WUORNOS ATTORNEY: I don't think that there's any societal goal that's reached by executing somebody who could be mentally ill.

POTTER: Raag Singhal, a criminal defense attorney, was appointed to represent Wuornos in June after she complained about conditions on death row. In a long note to the court, Wuornos claimed she overheard corrections officers saying they wanted to rape her. She also complained of contaminated food which she claimed was sometimes cooked in dirt. Singhal says he became concerned she was mentally unstable and asked the Florida Supreme Court to have her evaluated, a move he is certain Wuornos would oppose.

SINGHAL: She's got to rely on somebody to stand up for her even though she doesn't want that person standing up for her. It's hard when you have a mental illness situation to allow that particular defendant to waive her rights.

POTTER: As a result of Singhal's letter, Governor Jeb Bush, who signed Wuornos' execution order, has now ordered a psychiatric evaluation.

GOV. JEB BUSH, FLORIDA: Based on his concerns, we're going to ask three psychiatrists to analyze her to make sure that she's fit for the execution which is a duty that I have and I intend to do it.

POTTER: Legal experts though say it doesn't take much to rule a person fit for execution.

The courts have basically said that if a person is mentally competent enough to understand: A -- that they're going to be put to death; and, B -- why they're going to be put to death, that that's pretty much as mentally competent as they have to be.

POTTER (on camera): So now, the medical experts will help decide if Aileen Wuornos gets her wish to die by lethal injection. Despite the best efforts of others to possibly save her against her will. Mark Potter CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Working at a high-rise building may become just a little bit less scary, an escape chute that lets you jump out the top floor and slide to safety. The former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak joins me live. We'll have a demonstration also. A billion dollars a day lost a sea as West Coast cargo sites remain idle, the latest on the port lockout. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. It looks like a giant yellow caterpillar but it may be a lifesaver for people trapped on the upper floors of burning apartment buildings, hotels, or office towers. Developed by an Israeli company, the advanced modular evacuation system was demonstrated earlier today here in Washington. The former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak is serving as an adviser to the developers and he joins me now live. This looks like an amazing invention. Has it ever been tested, though, in a real kind of situation where fire is in a high-rise?

EHUD BARAK, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: No, not yet but the sleeve around is a slinky kind of coil, steel coil. It's made of the most advanced fire resistant materials.

BLITZER: So even if the building is on fire, the actual slide, the shoot won't start to burn?

BARAK: Yes, it won't start to burn. Beyond this, you can put it on either floor in a different direction so fire always has certain direction, so the rest of the two or three directions are free.

BLITZER: So right now how many stories can this go to save people's lives?

BARAK: For now, it's somewhat over 100 feet, so it's about 11 or 12 stories but it can, it will be developed. The next prototype will be about 20 or 22 stories and so that's basically what you need since even in a higher tower if you have neighboring roofs which are no more than 20 stories interval.

BLITZER: So how long does it take to create this thing to establish it so that people in case of a fire can start to slide down?

BARAK: If you just put several (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cable in advance to a neighboring group or during the operation to the ground, it will take every five seconds or six seconds you can put another individual into this sleeve. And what is more impression in my judgment is the fact that you can take disabled people from nursing homes, from hospitals, or kids in the school, and I believe that it should become a standard. It might not cost more than one-tenth of percent of the price of a building and we make a massive evacuation system that goes outside the tower of the elevator (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: But how fast are these people, as they're sliding down the chute, how fast do they wind up going. It looks like the higher up they are, they start developing speed. That could be pretty fast.

BARAK: Oh, no. No, they don't accumulate speed since they lose energy to the coil and after the first maybe ten yards, they keep the same speed, which is not very fast and basically it's every five seconds you can end up with another individual coming in. So it becomes quite (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with many of them around and I believe that, you know, for hospitals, for schools and for building, high-rise buildings, it could become a very elegant, simple, very cheap in fact insurance policy against (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: We all, of course, know...

BARAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: We all know the World Trade Center.

BARAK: Yes.

BLITZER: Is it in your mind theoretically possible, you're a scientist, you went to Stanford University, you've spend a career in the military, to have a chute big enough for something like a World Trade Center?

BARAK: I don't believe that at the World Trade Center site there will be another 100 floors, building, but I believe that we will end up with something that will be able to work for 30 stories or 40 stories and with higher than this you will end up finding a neighboring roof, which by itself is no more than 30 or 40 floors in difference of height.

BLITZER: It could save some lives and you're trying to sell it here in the United States. Congratulations. Good luck to you.

BARAK: Thank you.

BLITZER: The former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak. Thank you very much.

BARAK: Thank you. BLITZER: And should the United States launch a unilateral preemptive strike against Iraq? The former New York Mayor Mario Cuomo says slow down. Think about it. We'll hear why when we come back. Also, every woman's been told the importance of breast self exams but how much do they really stop the spread of cancer? New findings that may change what you do in the shower. And, a painful lesson in history, Mississippi moves forward after all these years, but first a look at making news around the world.

They eye of a powerful typhoon barely misses Japan's capitol but the storm still packed a punch. Heavy rains and high winds threw the transportation system into chaos. It's one of the strongest typhoons to menace Tokyo since World War II.

In Western India, more than a dozen deaths are reported after two Indian Navy planes collided and crashed. They were taking part in an aerial display marking the squadron's silver anniversary. Twelve crewmembers and at least three people on the ground were killed.

Israeli forces sweep through the West Bank looking for suspected terrorists. As part of the operation, Israeli troops moved into occupy several buildings near Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. Israel withdrew its forces from the compound two days ago after a 10- day siege.

German police say a body found in a lake near Frankfurt fits the description of a banker's son who was kidnapped Friday. The child was snatched on his way home from school. His parents paid a ransom of almost a million dollars. The kidnappers have promised to release the boy after the ransom was paid.

China marks more than half a century of communism. Today is the 53rd anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic. Celebrations include fire works.

Cambodians from far and wide are descending on a village to visit a cow. The animal's lick is said to cure arthritis, rheumatism and other ailments.

And in London, a different look for the heir to the British throne. A Russian artist has painted unusual portraits of Prince Charles. One features a laid-back Charles nicknamed "the prince of cool." And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what method did the CIA use in a failed attempt to assassinate Cuban president Fidel Castro? The answer, all of the above. That of course, occurred many, many years ago.

Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Coming up, the White House leaves the door open at least potentially for someone to assassinate Saddam Hussein. We'll discuss that much more with the former New York Governor Mario Cuomo. One hot item of political debate of course is the Bush administration's policy toward Iraq. And it's not just being heard on Capitol Hill. The debate over a possible war moved into the pages of the "New York Times" today with a full-page ad taken out by the Common Cause Organization. One of the signatories, the former New York governor, Mario Cuomo joins me now live from New York.

Governor, thanks for joining us. Sorry I called you mayor before, but everybody knows you were the -- once the governor of New York. Everybody knows. What made you go ahead and sign this ad, which among other things -- I'll read one sentence from it. It says, "Such a resolution, the draft resolution, the White House wants the Congress to support," if approved, you say, would give the president a blank check to make war on Iraq. What's wrong with that?

MARIO CUOMO (D), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Well, I don't think you should give the president a blank check to make war on anybody under any circumstances. The Constitution anticipated that question and answered it by saying a president shouldn't have a blank check. Abraham Lincoln made it very clear that that would be an atrocious thing to do.

I think what happened here, Wolf, is, and a lot of people are now starting to ask themselves the questions that were printed in the "New York Times" today. When did this thing arise? Why are we even talking about it? Where did it come from? I think what happened because 9/11. 9/11 came. We realize what had happened to us. The country made a judgment to support the president in a war against terrorism with very little reservation. And with all the fierceness that we could muster, we were behind him in the war against terrorism. And all of a sudden they insinuated into that the war against Iraq.

BLITZER: But...

CUOMO: If you ask most people today, Wolf, when did that come up and why? And what was the association between 9/11 and Iraq? They can't answer that question.

BLITZER: Well, the administration would argue, as you well know, Governor, that this is a terrorist regime that has weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological, and as the president repeatedly says, may be on the verge of developing a crude nuclear device after 9/11. They say, wouldn't it be better to take this guy out rather than let him develop a -- this kind of capability which could threaten not only his own people but his neighbors, including the United States?

CUOMO: Yes, it might be. What about North Korea? What about Iran? What about other places? That logic doesn't work, Wolf. You could have said that in your campaign of 2000. You could have said the first thing I'm going to do is declare war on Iraq before 9/11, before terrorism. What you just offered by way of rational, George Bush had in 2000.

BLITZER: Well, let me tell you...

CUOMO: And he had it right...

BLITZER: ... what the administration...

CUOMO: Excuse me, and he had it right after 9/11.

BLITZER: But the administration...

CUOMO: And he never said a word about it.

BLITZER: The administration would argue that this is a leader, Saddam Hussein, who has proven that he is reckless, that he invaded Kuwait. He tried to kill an American president, this president's father, used poison gas against his own people and he's got a record of atrocity unlike North Korea, let's say, or Iran.

CUOMO: That's absolutely right and you supported him, too. The presidents of the United States supported him and encouraged him and that's part of the record, too. I'm saying this, Wolf. Before you go to war, before you sacrifice, perhaps thousands and thousands of lives, our lives, their lives, the lives of innocent people, there are certain questions you should answer.

The piece that you read in the "New York Times" doesn't conclude that the president's wrong. It simply says let's pause for a moment and ask questions. Why didn't it come up before? What exactly do you know now that you didn't know two years ago, a year ago?

BLITZER: Governor, let me ask you a question about your fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill. They are raising these questions. Senator Biden...

CUOMO: More and more.

BLITZER: ... had hearings before the Foreign Relations Committee.

CUOMO: Good.

BLITZER: There's going to be a whole debate now on this resolution.

CUOMO: Excellent.

BLITZER: So are they being derelict in their responsibilities because the ad seems to suggest that they're not living up to what you believe they should be doing?

CUOMO: No, we're trying to support those who are asking questions. We just don't want people to be panicked by polls. And we don't want people to make the mistake that this is the logical sequel to 9/11. See and every once in awhile somebody will say, well, actually there is a connection between al Qaeda and Iraq and that is the logic here. That's why we have to go after Iraq and that logic doesn't work. And you can point that out and then they back away from it. And all we're saying is this, Wolf, we're with the president in the war against terrorism, everybody is. Now make the case against Iraq. Tell us why it comes up now. Tell us how many lives we may lose.

BLITZER: Let me ask you what you mean...

CUOMO: Ask what you mean by regime change. Tell us isn't it possible that if he is the madman you say he is and we make a false move, he's liable to fire those weapons at us in anticipation. And...

BLITZER: Governor?

CUOMO: Yes?

BLITZER: You don't believe when the president addressed the United Nations he made that case because the administration, as you well know, argues that they are answering all of the questions that you asked in this full-page ad...

CUOMO: Fine, I'll read tomorrow's -- well, then all they have to do is publish it in the "Times" tomorrow and I'll read the answers nice and clearly and then, I'll come back and apologize to them.

BLITZER: The -- finally before I let you go, Governor, in 1991, there were those who raise questions about going after Saddam Hussein following his invasion of Kuwait. Obviously, many of them were Democrats, and only some who supported the then first President Bush. A lot of Democrats are right nervous -- very nervous right now. They could be making a similar mistake. You recognize the political pitfalls here.

CUOMO: Well, there's plenty of time to make a decision to agree 100 percent with everything the president's asking for. I'm just saying it's premature to do it until he answers those questions.

And go back to 1991, Wolf. You're an expert on this. You remember all of the different rationales they gave for this war? Remember first, they said this is a matter of economy and jobs and then they said this and then they said that. Do you remember that?

And when it was all over and they didn't go all the way, people wondered about why they hadn't gone all the way. We're still confused about some of those rationales, you know, exactly why we were doing it. All I want is answers to simple questions that I would ask before I send somebody I loved out on to a battlefield to risk his or her life.

BLITZER: All right, Governor Cuomo, let's continue this conversation, maybe Sunday on "LATE EDITION." We'll continue this conversation.

CUOMO: If you like.

BLITZER: The administration -- in fairness to the first President Bush, he'll argue that the rationale for the first war was to liberate Kuwait and that was achieved. But we'll continue this discussion, a lot more to talk about. Mario Cuomo, it was good to have you on the program.

CUOMO: Thank you.

BLITZER: The Justice Department is drawing heavy flack for its actions in the war on terrorism. Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, reports now on the latest controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the government held an immigration hearing for Rabih Haddad, the first open hearing for a detainee with suspected links to terrorism, Attorney General Ashcroft strongly defended the government's detention policy and other terror-fighting tactics.

JOHN ASHCROFT, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our actions are firmly rooted in the Constitution, secure in historical and judicial precedent. And consistent with the laws passed by the Congress.

ARENA: Haddad's case has become the rallying cry for opponents of secret hearings. He is the chairman of the Muslim charity, Global Relief Foundation, and has been in custody for nine months because of suspected links to terrorism and for Visa violations. The charity's assets have also been frozen.

Haddad's case has been conducted mostly in secret, but a judge ordered the Justice Department to grant a new and open detention hearing for Haddad or release him.

DAVID COLE, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: I think it's absolutely critical because the rule of law only operates if it operates in full view, so that the public, the press, the family members, people interested can ensure that in fact this man is being afforded a fair trial.

ARENA: The government's war on terror has been sharply criticized by some who argue the very civil liberties the government is trying to defend are being undermined in the process. But Ashcroft sees it differently.

ASHCROFT: Neutralize potential terrorist threats by getting violators off the street by any means possible as quickly as possible. Detained individuals who pose a national security risk for any violations of criminal or immigration laws. Delay only if there's a valid national security reason.

ARENA (on-camera): The government argues Haddad is a national security risk and would be a threat if let out on bail. Haddad says that's simply not true and that his work in the community proves it. He remains in federal custody.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this, should all detention hearings for terrorism suspects be open to the public. We'll have the results a little bit later in this program. Go to Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote.

Health news that goes against everything we've been taught. A new study says breast exams are useless in the fight against cancer. Our Elizabeth Cohen joins us live to explain what this means for women everywhere. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: On the medical front, the new study says breast self- exams are worthless because they do not detect tumors early enough to reduce the risk of death from breast cancer. This is a critically important story. Let's check in with our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, in Atlanta to find out what is going on right now -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I know, Wolf. I think a lot of people will be surprised to hear this. This was a huge study, 260,000 women in Shanghai, China. What they did is they split the women into two groups. Half of them were told to do breast examinations and they were taught how to do it and followed up for 10 years. The other half, no breast examinations of themselves and they were also followed up.

What they found is that both groups seemed to die of breast cancer at the same rate. And in fact, the women who did the breast self-exams, they had a lot of needless biopsies. In other words, doctors did biopsies because the women found lumps but they turned out to be completely benign.

Now, this has prompted --- this study has prompted now an editorial in the "Journal of The National Cancer Institute." And what that editorial -- this is by American doctors -- said, "Until we receive further evidence, physicians can stop spending time routinely teaching women's fingers to do breast self-exams."

Now that's pretty surprising. You might think, you know, how can we do this? They've been telling women -- you can see the brochures here -- to do these exams. My producer bought a pair of sneakers and with the sneakers came instructions on how to do breast self- examinations. Here's a little shirt. If you look, it shows a map of how to do a breast exam. So it just seems incredible that now these people are saying don't do them.

Well, I think, it's important to note that not everyone agrees with the findings of the study. For example, at the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, they say you should still do them. "The Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation maintains its recommendation that women age 20 years and older practice monthly breast self- examination despite recently published findings."

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Early detection could be your key to peace of mind and a healthy life.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: In fact, this is from the Susan G. Komen Web site. And they have a video that teaches people how to do breast examinations. So again, some groups are still recommending it.

I think it is important to note -- not to make this even more confusing -- but the U.S. Preventive Task -- Health Service Task Force, which is a part of the federal government, they say, you know what, there's not enough evidence to continue doing this. So, Wolf, I think the controversy is going to continue.

But people like the Susan G. Komen Foundation say, look, even if a big study finds that fewer women or that just as many women died if they did the exam or not that doesn't mean that an individual person can get some benefit out of doing an exam. They said we can name women whose lives were saved because they found lumps by themselves. Now that statistically might not come out in a study, but to that woman, what does she think about the statistic? She knows that she found a lump herself and that it saved her life --Wolf.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen, as always, thank you very much. We'll continue to monitor this important story.

Torricelli grows emotional. A balance of power is up for grabs. And Barbara Streisand belts it out. A look at the lighter side of politics with funnyman, Dave Barry, when we come back.

(INTERRUPTED BY COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

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House Publicly Advocates Assassination of Saddam>


Aired October 1, 2002 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Back to work? U.N. weapons inspectors reach a deal with Iraq. But President Bush isn't looking for compromise from either the U.N...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United Nations most show it's backbone, and we'll work with members of the Security Council to put a little calcium there.

BLITZER: ... or Congress.

BUSH: I don't want to get a resolution which ties my hands.

BLITZER: One way to avoid a full scale war, assassinating Saddam Hussein.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The cost of one bullet -- if the Iraqi people take it on themselves -- is substantially less than that. The cost of war is more than that.

BLITZER: Walter Cronkite and Mario Cuomo find common cause in questioning the president's Iraq policy. I'll speak live with the former governor.

Eye on the storm, the U.S. Gulf coast braces for Round 2 as Lili slashes Cuba.

This walk in the park was no walk in the park for a notorious spy, how the FBI got him. And, urban rescue, high hopes for a high rise escape shoot.

It's Tuesday, October 1, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Iraq is holding the door open for new U.N. weapons inspections and after intensive discussions, the inspectors say they're ready to take Iraq up on the offer. Our Christiane Amanpour is joining us now live from Vienna, Austria where all of these arrangements were worked out - Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf for the last two days, all eyes were on Vienna and on whether Iraq would cooperate with the U.N. This was considered a first sign of whether Iraq would show good faith, if you like, in its new confrontation over weapons inspections, and certainly after these two days, Iraq has made what amounts to a 180-degree reversal of the position it's been holding for several years. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice over): Two days of talks in Vienna led the Iraqi government to reverse the position it's held for the past four years. Iraq now says the U.N. can carry out weapons inspections mandated under existing resolutions.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: On the question of access, it was clarified that all sites are subject to immediate unconditional and unrestricted access.

AMANPOUR: All sites except the eight presidential sites. Restrictions on them were agreed to by the U.N. Secretary-General and later enshrined in a resolution. The U.S. would have to muster a majority in the Security Council to annul that deal; however, in a significant move, Iraq will not lift restrictions it imposed on other sensitive sites such as key ministry buildings.

GEN. AMR AL-SADI, IRAQI DELEGATION: We have come to a very practical arrangement that we would from our side anticipate every inspection to sort of go to sensitive sites and we will take the measures that will cancel the need for waiting period and getting approvals.

AMANPOUR: Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix says that Iraq has also agreed to all the practical arrangements for weapons inspections including the use of aircraft and helicopters for reconnaissance, although, Iraq said security in the U.S. no-fly zones was out of its hands. General Amr Al-Sadi said that he was happy agreement had been reached, and along with Blix described the talks as businesslike and focused.

Iraq also handed over four CD-ROMs containing four years of information that it owes the U.N. about what's been happening at so- called dual use facilities that inspectors inspect can be used to produce weapons of mass destruction. Both sides said weapons inspectors could be back in Iraq by mid-October.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (on camera): Now Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, has to brief the Security Council in New York on Thursday and he'll give them a much fuller briefing of what happened here than he did to us at the press conference. However, of course, two questions remain. Although Iraq has made these agreements here, will they translate to full implementation on the ground and how will the deal struck here be effected if there are newer and tougher demands issued by the United Nations? Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, it's hypothetical but if there is no new U.N. Security Council resolution, I assume the inspectors under Hans Blix directions, they just go back to Iraq under the old U.N. Security Council resolutions mandate.

AMANPOUR: Well, they've been operating under the existing Security Council resolutions and, of course, they have heard what's been coming out of the United States. Secretary Powell, others, have said that they do not want the inspectors to go back without a new resolution; however, Blix has been saying that the Security Council is his boss. Unless he gets a red light, unless he's told not to send the inspectors back by the Security Council, then he intends to send them back.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Vienna, Christiane thank you very much. The deal in Austria may not necessarily be good enough for the Bush administration as Christiane just reported. A senior State Department official says the United States will thwart efforts to send inspectors back in if the U.N. Security Council fails to first pass a new resolution backing the inspections with the threat of course. Meantime, the White House remains focused on the Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Here is our White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Bush administration's call for regime change today reached a new pitch when White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer was asked about the cost of a possible war with Iraq.

FLEISCHER: I can only say that the cost of a one-way ticket is substantially less than that. The cost of one bullet if the Iraqi people take it on themselves is substantially less than that.

MALVEAUX: Was this a signal that the Bush administration would support the Iraqi people sending Saddam into exile or possibly assassinating him?

(on camera): I'm asking you if you intend to advocate from that podium that some Iraqis -- you know, person put a bullet in his head?

FLEISCHER: Regime change is welcome in whatever form that it takes.

MALVEAUX: So the answer is yes.

FLEISCHER: Thank you. Regime change is welcome in whatever form it takes.

MALVEAUX: Fleischer later said he was simply making a rhetorical point that the U.S. policy barring assassinations of foreign leaders by U.S. officials still stands but that no one would cry over the loss of Saddam Hussein. President Bush is still trying to win support for a congressional resolution that would give him broad authority to use military force against Saddam.

But Republican Senator Richard Lugar in meetings with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and White House Counsel Al Gonzalez, is pushing for a bipartisan resolution that would give the president the green light for military action only if it's used to dismantle Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Bush is insisting he can not be limited when it comes to going after Saddam. BUSH: I don't want to get a resolution which ties my hands, a resolution which is weaker than that which was passed out of the Congress in 1998. The Congress in 1998 passed a very strong resolution. It wisely recognized that Saddam Hussein is a threat, was a threat in '98 and he's more of a threat four years later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now the president just wrapped up his meeting with House lawmakers just a moment ago. Both sides very optimistic, this group more in step with the kind of resolution the president would like to see but those lawmakers saying it's just a matter of changing a few words now. They expect there's going to be a resolution that the White House and the House will sign off on by tomorrow, by the breakfast meeting that the president will have with the congressional leaders -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, Suzanne thank you very much.

And, if the United States does go to war, the price tag could be staggering. It would cost up to $9 billion a month to fight and the Congressional Budget Office says it would cost at least that much just to get U.S. forces to the battlefield, $9 billion to deploy a quarter million personnel with 300 tanks and up to 2,500 aircraft, the so- called heavy air option, and up to $13 billion for the heavy ground option, fewer aircraft but up to 800 tanks with another 800 helicopters, big numbers indeed.

Let's turn now to the deadly situation involving Hurricane Lili. Now it's a Category 2 hurricane capable of causing considerable damage to homes, piers, and low-lying coastal areas. Lili has been pounding Cuba all day with violent winds and torrential rain and is headed toward the U.S. Gulf Coast where it's expected to make landfall Thursday.

Earlier, Lili killed seven people in Jamaica and St. Vincent. We'll go the National Hurricane Center in Miami, Florida in just a moment. First, our Havana Bureau Chief, Lucia Newman, is joining us now live with the latest on the storm's destruction. Lucia, tell us what's going on right now in Cuba.

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's hard to imagine by the looks of the things right now that a huge Category 2 hurricane has just passed but then again looks can certainly be very deceiving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN (voice-over): Unlike lightning, hurricanes do seem to strike twice in the same place, in this case in Cuba's unfortunate western province of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). For the second time is less than two weeks it's been pounded by a hurricane. Cuban television as well as our own television crews report that the worst hit area, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are cut off with trees blocking roads, no electricity, and heavy damage to homes. Ham radio operators are the only form of communication right now and they report one death so far. Along the low-lying areas of Havana province which we visited, there were also flood alerts as the seas threaten to swell into the town of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

NEWMAN (on camera): Unfortunately for Cuba, hurricanes named Lili seem to like this island and like the last Lili which struck in 1996 causing tremendous damage to central Cuba, this year's is just as unwelcome.

(voice over): In the city of Havana, the biggest threat is to some 4,000 people living in unstable and dilapidated buildings, particularly in old Havana. Authorities say some of these buildings could collapse as they often do when there is unusually heavy rain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: Wolf, we can also report that in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Lili has caused extensive damage to roads, to homes, and also to tobacco houses, which were barely left standing from the last hurricane, so in all, a very short-lived but very strong and damaging storm for this country. Wolf.

BLITZER: Lucia Newman in Havana, thank you very much. And, joining us now for the latest on Lili's strength and its speed as it heads towards the U.S. Gulf Coast, Max Mayfield he's over at the National Hurricane Center in Miami. What we just saw in Cuba, is it likely to happen here in the United States, Max?

MAX MAYFIELD, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Yes, it is and it will likely get even stronger before it reaches the U.S. coast, Wolf. You can see on the satellite imagery behind me that it's a very symmetric looking system. It definitely looks like it's getting stronger. The upper level environment is very favorable for a development. The Gulf of Mexico is very warm. I really don't see any reason why this should not continue and become a major hurricane as it gets into the Gulf of Mexico tomorrow.

Our future forecast track has it headed up into the northwestern Gulf of Mexico. We've just issued a hurricane watch from San Maritz (ph) Pass, Texas all the way across the Louisiana coast to the mouth of the Mississippi River and then we have a tropical storm watch out from the mouth of the Mississippi over to Pascagoula, Mississippi, including New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain.

BLITZER: Max, it looks like New Orleans, which is of course below sea level, could be hit relatively strongly this time. How serious of a problem is it for New Orleans?

MAYFIELD: Well, it's more of a problem on our current track to the west of there. Now this is not nearly as large as Isidore was. If it stays on our track, New Orleans will not be in the worst impacted area but they obviously have to watch it very carefully. Eventually, this hurricane will turn up to the north and then eventually northeast. I can't tell you exactly when that turn is going to take place and that's why we have that hurricane watch over a large area. But the main concern right now is the upper Texas coast all the way over to the mouth of the Mississippi River, and the storm surge flooding is very, very important on this. We can have ten to 14 feet of storm surge near and to the east of where the center crosses the coast.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Max Mayfield. Thursday could be D-Day along the coast, the Gulf Coast of the United States. Thanks, we'll be staying in touch of course with you.

MAYFIELD: Thank you.

BLITZER: Switching now to the spy who was caught red-handed making a drop for Moscow outside the nation's capitol. Robert Hanssen is now in prison serving a life sentence. In a just-released FBI surveillance video, we see what happened on the day Hanssen was arrested.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): This is how you may have come to recognize Robert Hanssen or you may have seen him through the eyes of a courtroom sketch artist as he faced espionage charges. Images of one of the most notorious spies in U.S. history have for the past 20 months been confined to an official FBI snapshot and a few drawings.

But, the FBI has just released videotape of Hanssen's arrest in February, 2001. He just made a document drop for his Russian handlers at a park in Vienna, Virginia. As he's standing in a nearby residential street, agents from his very own FBI surround him, guns drawn. Hanssen shows remarkably little reaction. And, CNN has been told that he asked the agents what took them so long to catch him?

Hanssen later said he'd had a feeling he was being monitored by his colleagues but wanted to make one more drop. It was his final act of betrayal after 15 years of spying for the Soviet Union and Russia. Experts say this man being led away to an unmarked van was one of the most damaging spies in American history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: He's in prison right now for the rest of his life.

When we come back, a female serial killer who wants to die by lethal injection, lawyers are fighting to spare her life and Florida's governor has postponed her date with death. Should Aileen Wuornos have the right to decide her fate?

Plus, Noelle Bush off the hook for allegedly having crack cocaine. Find out why she won't be prosecuted.

Plus, medical news that every woman should know, breast self exams, do they really work in the fight against cancer? Our Elizabeth Cohen helps sort out controversial new findings.

But first, today's "News Quiz."

What method did the CIA use in a failed attempt to assassinate Cuban President Fidel Castro, poisoned cigars, poisoned pills, poisoned pens, all of the above? The answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A terrifying attack on a Greyhound bus traveling at freeway speed in California resulted in the deaths of two passengers and serious injuries to the driver. A suspect identified as a transient is charged with murder and attempted murder. CNN's James Hattori reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A cotton field turned triage zone after a Greyhound bus carrying 46 passengers careened off the interstate near Fresno, California Monday night, a terrifying trip caused by a sudden attack aboard the bus.

LT. MARGARET MIMS, FRESNO CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.: A passenger on the bus got up from his seat near the back, walked up the center aisle, attacked the driver of the bus with a pair of scissors stabbing him, wounding him very seriously in the neck.

MIKE MCCLURE, PASSENGER: The bus went out of control and it went off the road and it was really tumbling. We kind of were moving back and forth rough and all of a sudden it flipped on its side.

HATTORI: Two female passengers on the Los Angeles to San Francisco bus died. Three other passengers were seriously hurt, including the driver. The suspect was arrested after trying to run away from the scene. He's identified at 27-year-old Arturo Tapia Martinez (ph) described as a transient from Los Angeles. Investigators say he's given conflicting explanations for his actions.

MIMS: We're looking at under the influence of narcotics or drugs or alcohol. We're looking at maybe some health issues. We're looking at maybe he's covering up for some other crimes and so we don't know yet why. We don't have a good reason why and he's not made that clear to us.

HATTORI (on camera): Martinez faces two counts of murder and one count of attempted murder for attacking the bus driver who may have actually saved lives by steering the bus off the road despite his wounds. James Hattori CNN, Fresno County, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And checking other stories in our "Justice Files," the police department in Orlando, Florida has put its drug investigation of Governor Jeb Bush's daughter Noelle on inactive status. The move comes a day after a judge ruled that staff members at the drug treatment center, where Bush is being treated, do not have to cooperate with the investigation. The investigation was launched after another patient at the center told police that cocaine was found in Noelle Bush's shoe.

A young California man faces a seven-year prison sentence for plotting to bomb a college campus. Twenty-year-old Al Deguzman (ph) was sentenced this morning. His attorneys say he had a morbid fascination with weapons but never intended to carry out his plot. Deguzman attended Anza College in Cupertino.

After a decade and a half behind bars, a Montana man wrongly convicted of rape has won his freedom. A judge in Billings today order the release of Jimmy Ray Bromgard (ph). The recent DNA testing of evidence proved Bromgard's innocence. His attorney says misleading and fabricated testimony from the state Crime Lab director at the time helped send Bromgard to prison.

Tomorrow's planned execution of a death row inmate in Florida is back on after a mental examination found him competent. Another inmate, a female serial killer is awaiting the results of her mental examination, and as she waits Aileen Wuornos continues to fight efforts to spare her life. Here's CNN's Mark Potter with the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): Convicted serial killer Aileen Wuornos says she is ready to die. Last year she fired her lawyers, dropped her appeals and volunteered for execution. She insists she is mentally competent, despite the concerns of others.

AILEEN WUORNOS, CONVICTED SERIAL KILLER: I'm so sick of hearing that she's crazy. I've been evaluated so many times, I'm competent, sane, and I'm trying to tell the truth.

POTTER: In the early 1990s, Wuornos was convicted of killing six middle-aged men along the highways of north and central Florida where she was a prostitute. She received six death sentences. Her life has been the subject of books and movies. Now she is the focus of a legal debate.

RAAG SINGHAL, FORMER WUORNOS ATTORNEY: I don't think that there's any societal goal that's reached by executing somebody who could be mentally ill.

POTTER: Raag Singhal, a criminal defense attorney, was appointed to represent Wuornos in June after she complained about conditions on death row. In a long note to the court, Wuornos claimed she overheard corrections officers saying they wanted to rape her. She also complained of contaminated food which she claimed was sometimes cooked in dirt. Singhal says he became concerned she was mentally unstable and asked the Florida Supreme Court to have her evaluated, a move he is certain Wuornos would oppose.

SINGHAL: She's got to rely on somebody to stand up for her even though she doesn't want that person standing up for her. It's hard when you have a mental illness situation to allow that particular defendant to waive her rights.

POTTER: As a result of Singhal's letter, Governor Jeb Bush, who signed Wuornos' execution order, has now ordered a psychiatric evaluation.

GOV. JEB BUSH, FLORIDA: Based on his concerns, we're going to ask three psychiatrists to analyze her to make sure that she's fit for the execution which is a duty that I have and I intend to do it.

POTTER: Legal experts though say it doesn't take much to rule a person fit for execution.

The courts have basically said that if a person is mentally competent enough to understand: A -- that they're going to be put to death; and, B -- why they're going to be put to death, that that's pretty much as mentally competent as they have to be.

POTTER (on camera): So now, the medical experts will help decide if Aileen Wuornos gets her wish to die by lethal injection. Despite the best efforts of others to possibly save her against her will. Mark Potter CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Working at a high-rise building may become just a little bit less scary, an escape chute that lets you jump out the top floor and slide to safety. The former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak joins me live. We'll have a demonstration also. A billion dollars a day lost a sea as West Coast cargo sites remain idle, the latest on the port lockout. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. It looks like a giant yellow caterpillar but it may be a lifesaver for people trapped on the upper floors of burning apartment buildings, hotels, or office towers. Developed by an Israeli company, the advanced modular evacuation system was demonstrated earlier today here in Washington. The former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak is serving as an adviser to the developers and he joins me now live. This looks like an amazing invention. Has it ever been tested, though, in a real kind of situation where fire is in a high-rise?

EHUD BARAK, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: No, not yet but the sleeve around is a slinky kind of coil, steel coil. It's made of the most advanced fire resistant materials.

BLITZER: So even if the building is on fire, the actual slide, the shoot won't start to burn?

BARAK: Yes, it won't start to burn. Beyond this, you can put it on either floor in a different direction so fire always has certain direction, so the rest of the two or three directions are free.

BLITZER: So right now how many stories can this go to save people's lives?

BARAK: For now, it's somewhat over 100 feet, so it's about 11 or 12 stories but it can, it will be developed. The next prototype will be about 20 or 22 stories and so that's basically what you need since even in a higher tower if you have neighboring roofs which are no more than 20 stories interval.

BLITZER: So how long does it take to create this thing to establish it so that people in case of a fire can start to slide down?

BARAK: If you just put several (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cable in advance to a neighboring group or during the operation to the ground, it will take every five seconds or six seconds you can put another individual into this sleeve. And what is more impression in my judgment is the fact that you can take disabled people from nursing homes, from hospitals, or kids in the school, and I believe that it should become a standard. It might not cost more than one-tenth of percent of the price of a building and we make a massive evacuation system that goes outside the tower of the elevator (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: But how fast are these people, as they're sliding down the chute, how fast do they wind up going. It looks like the higher up they are, they start developing speed. That could be pretty fast.

BARAK: Oh, no. No, they don't accumulate speed since they lose energy to the coil and after the first maybe ten yards, they keep the same speed, which is not very fast and basically it's every five seconds you can end up with another individual coming in. So it becomes quite (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with many of them around and I believe that, you know, for hospitals, for schools and for building, high-rise buildings, it could become a very elegant, simple, very cheap in fact insurance policy against (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: We all, of course, know...

BARAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BLITZER: We all know the World Trade Center.

BARAK: Yes.

BLITZER: Is it in your mind theoretically possible, you're a scientist, you went to Stanford University, you've spend a career in the military, to have a chute big enough for something like a World Trade Center?

BARAK: I don't believe that at the World Trade Center site there will be another 100 floors, building, but I believe that we will end up with something that will be able to work for 30 stories or 40 stories and with higher than this you will end up finding a neighboring roof, which by itself is no more than 30 or 40 floors in difference of height.

BLITZER: It could save some lives and you're trying to sell it here in the United States. Congratulations. Good luck to you.

BARAK: Thank you.

BLITZER: The former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak. Thank you very much.

BARAK: Thank you. BLITZER: And should the United States launch a unilateral preemptive strike against Iraq? The former New York Mayor Mario Cuomo says slow down. Think about it. We'll hear why when we come back. Also, every woman's been told the importance of breast self exams but how much do they really stop the spread of cancer? New findings that may change what you do in the shower. And, a painful lesson in history, Mississippi moves forward after all these years, but first a look at making news around the world.

They eye of a powerful typhoon barely misses Japan's capitol but the storm still packed a punch. Heavy rains and high winds threw the transportation system into chaos. It's one of the strongest typhoons to menace Tokyo since World War II.

In Western India, more than a dozen deaths are reported after two Indian Navy planes collided and crashed. They were taking part in an aerial display marking the squadron's silver anniversary. Twelve crewmembers and at least three people on the ground were killed.

Israeli forces sweep through the West Bank looking for suspected terrorists. As part of the operation, Israeli troops moved into occupy several buildings near Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. Israel withdrew its forces from the compound two days ago after a 10- day siege.

German police say a body found in a lake near Frankfurt fits the description of a banker's son who was kidnapped Friday. The child was snatched on his way home from school. His parents paid a ransom of almost a million dollars. The kidnappers have promised to release the boy after the ransom was paid.

China marks more than half a century of communism. Today is the 53rd anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic. Celebrations include fire works.

Cambodians from far and wide are descending on a village to visit a cow. The animal's lick is said to cure arthritis, rheumatism and other ailments.

And in London, a different look for the heir to the British throne. A Russian artist has painted unusual portraits of Prince Charles. One features a laid-back Charles nicknamed "the prince of cool." And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what method did the CIA use in a failed attempt to assassinate Cuban president Fidel Castro? The answer, all of the above. That of course, occurred many, many years ago.

Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Coming up, the White House leaves the door open at least potentially for someone to assassinate Saddam Hussein. We'll discuss that much more with the former New York Governor Mario Cuomo. One hot item of political debate of course is the Bush administration's policy toward Iraq. And it's not just being heard on Capitol Hill. The debate over a possible war moved into the pages of the "New York Times" today with a full-page ad taken out by the Common Cause Organization. One of the signatories, the former New York governor, Mario Cuomo joins me now live from New York.

Governor, thanks for joining us. Sorry I called you mayor before, but everybody knows you were the -- once the governor of New York. Everybody knows. What made you go ahead and sign this ad, which among other things -- I'll read one sentence from it. It says, "Such a resolution, the draft resolution, the White House wants the Congress to support," if approved, you say, would give the president a blank check to make war on Iraq. What's wrong with that?

MARIO CUOMO (D), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Well, I don't think you should give the president a blank check to make war on anybody under any circumstances. The Constitution anticipated that question and answered it by saying a president shouldn't have a blank check. Abraham Lincoln made it very clear that that would be an atrocious thing to do.

I think what happened here, Wolf, is, and a lot of people are now starting to ask themselves the questions that were printed in the "New York Times" today. When did this thing arise? Why are we even talking about it? Where did it come from? I think what happened because 9/11. 9/11 came. We realize what had happened to us. The country made a judgment to support the president in a war against terrorism with very little reservation. And with all the fierceness that we could muster, we were behind him in the war against terrorism. And all of a sudden they insinuated into that the war against Iraq.

BLITZER: But...

CUOMO: If you ask most people today, Wolf, when did that come up and why? And what was the association between 9/11 and Iraq? They can't answer that question.

BLITZER: Well, the administration would argue, as you well know, Governor, that this is a terrorist regime that has weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological, and as the president repeatedly says, may be on the verge of developing a crude nuclear device after 9/11. They say, wouldn't it be better to take this guy out rather than let him develop a -- this kind of capability which could threaten not only his own people but his neighbors, including the United States?

CUOMO: Yes, it might be. What about North Korea? What about Iran? What about other places? That logic doesn't work, Wolf. You could have said that in your campaign of 2000. You could have said the first thing I'm going to do is declare war on Iraq before 9/11, before terrorism. What you just offered by way of rational, George Bush had in 2000.

BLITZER: Well, let me tell you...

CUOMO: And he had it right...

BLITZER: ... what the administration...

CUOMO: Excuse me, and he had it right after 9/11.

BLITZER: But the administration...

CUOMO: And he never said a word about it.

BLITZER: The administration would argue that this is a leader, Saddam Hussein, who has proven that he is reckless, that he invaded Kuwait. He tried to kill an American president, this president's father, used poison gas against his own people and he's got a record of atrocity unlike North Korea, let's say, or Iran.

CUOMO: That's absolutely right and you supported him, too. The presidents of the United States supported him and encouraged him and that's part of the record, too. I'm saying this, Wolf. Before you go to war, before you sacrifice, perhaps thousands and thousands of lives, our lives, their lives, the lives of innocent people, there are certain questions you should answer.

The piece that you read in the "New York Times" doesn't conclude that the president's wrong. It simply says let's pause for a moment and ask questions. Why didn't it come up before? What exactly do you know now that you didn't know two years ago, a year ago?

BLITZER: Governor, let me ask you a question about your fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill. They are raising these questions. Senator Biden...

CUOMO: More and more.

BLITZER: ... had hearings before the Foreign Relations Committee.

CUOMO: Good.

BLITZER: There's going to be a whole debate now on this resolution.

CUOMO: Excellent.

BLITZER: So are they being derelict in their responsibilities because the ad seems to suggest that they're not living up to what you believe they should be doing?

CUOMO: No, we're trying to support those who are asking questions. We just don't want people to be panicked by polls. And we don't want people to make the mistake that this is the logical sequel to 9/11. See and every once in awhile somebody will say, well, actually there is a connection between al Qaeda and Iraq and that is the logic here. That's why we have to go after Iraq and that logic doesn't work. And you can point that out and then they back away from it. And all we're saying is this, Wolf, we're with the president in the war against terrorism, everybody is. Now make the case against Iraq. Tell us why it comes up now. Tell us how many lives we may lose.

BLITZER: Let me ask you what you mean...

CUOMO: Ask what you mean by regime change. Tell us isn't it possible that if he is the madman you say he is and we make a false move, he's liable to fire those weapons at us in anticipation. And...

BLITZER: Governor?

CUOMO: Yes?

BLITZER: You don't believe when the president addressed the United Nations he made that case because the administration, as you well know, argues that they are answering all of the questions that you asked in this full-page ad...

CUOMO: Fine, I'll read tomorrow's -- well, then all they have to do is publish it in the "Times" tomorrow and I'll read the answers nice and clearly and then, I'll come back and apologize to them.

BLITZER: The -- finally before I let you go, Governor, in 1991, there were those who raise questions about going after Saddam Hussein following his invasion of Kuwait. Obviously, many of them were Democrats, and only some who supported the then first President Bush. A lot of Democrats are right nervous -- very nervous right now. They could be making a similar mistake. You recognize the political pitfalls here.

CUOMO: Well, there's plenty of time to make a decision to agree 100 percent with everything the president's asking for. I'm just saying it's premature to do it until he answers those questions.

And go back to 1991, Wolf. You're an expert on this. You remember all of the different rationales they gave for this war? Remember first, they said this is a matter of economy and jobs and then they said this and then they said that. Do you remember that?

And when it was all over and they didn't go all the way, people wondered about why they hadn't gone all the way. We're still confused about some of those rationales, you know, exactly why we were doing it. All I want is answers to simple questions that I would ask before I send somebody I loved out on to a battlefield to risk his or her life.

BLITZER: All right, Governor Cuomo, let's continue this conversation, maybe Sunday on "LATE EDITION." We'll continue this conversation.

CUOMO: If you like.

BLITZER: The administration -- in fairness to the first President Bush, he'll argue that the rationale for the first war was to liberate Kuwait and that was achieved. But we'll continue this discussion, a lot more to talk about. Mario Cuomo, it was good to have you on the program.

CUOMO: Thank you.

BLITZER: The Justice Department is drawing heavy flack for its actions in the war on terrorism. Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, reports now on the latest controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the government held an immigration hearing for Rabih Haddad, the first open hearing for a detainee with suspected links to terrorism, Attorney General Ashcroft strongly defended the government's detention policy and other terror-fighting tactics.

JOHN ASHCROFT, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our actions are firmly rooted in the Constitution, secure in historical and judicial precedent. And consistent with the laws passed by the Congress.

ARENA: Haddad's case has become the rallying cry for opponents of secret hearings. He is the chairman of the Muslim charity, Global Relief Foundation, and has been in custody for nine months because of suspected links to terrorism and for Visa violations. The charity's assets have also been frozen.

Haddad's case has been conducted mostly in secret, but a judge ordered the Justice Department to grant a new and open detention hearing for Haddad or release him.

DAVID COLE, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: I think it's absolutely critical because the rule of law only operates if it operates in full view, so that the public, the press, the family members, people interested can ensure that in fact this man is being afforded a fair trial.

ARENA: The government's war on terror has been sharply criticized by some who argue the very civil liberties the government is trying to defend are being undermined in the process. But Ashcroft sees it differently.

ASHCROFT: Neutralize potential terrorist threats by getting violators off the street by any means possible as quickly as possible. Detained individuals who pose a national security risk for any violations of criminal or immigration laws. Delay only if there's a valid national security reason.

ARENA (on-camera): The government argues Haddad is a national security risk and would be a threat if let out on bail. Haddad says that's simply not true and that his work in the community proves it. He remains in federal custody.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this, should all detention hearings for terrorism suspects be open to the public. We'll have the results a little bit later in this program. Go to Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote.

Health news that goes against everything we've been taught. A new study says breast exams are useless in the fight against cancer. Our Elizabeth Cohen joins us live to explain what this means for women everywhere. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: On the medical front, the new study says breast self- exams are worthless because they do not detect tumors early enough to reduce the risk of death from breast cancer. This is a critically important story. Let's check in with our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, in Atlanta to find out what is going on right now -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I know, Wolf. I think a lot of people will be surprised to hear this. This was a huge study, 260,000 women in Shanghai, China. What they did is they split the women into two groups. Half of them were told to do breast examinations and they were taught how to do it and followed up for 10 years. The other half, no breast examinations of themselves and they were also followed up.

What they found is that both groups seemed to die of breast cancer at the same rate. And in fact, the women who did the breast self-exams, they had a lot of needless biopsies. In other words, doctors did biopsies because the women found lumps but they turned out to be completely benign.

Now, this has prompted --- this study has prompted now an editorial in the "Journal of The National Cancer Institute." And what that editorial -- this is by American doctors -- said, "Until we receive further evidence, physicians can stop spending time routinely teaching women's fingers to do breast self-exams."

Now that's pretty surprising. You might think, you know, how can we do this? They've been telling women -- you can see the brochures here -- to do these exams. My producer bought a pair of sneakers and with the sneakers came instructions on how to do breast self- examinations. Here's a little shirt. If you look, it shows a map of how to do a breast exam. So it just seems incredible that now these people are saying don't do them.

Well, I think, it's important to note that not everyone agrees with the findings of the study. For example, at the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, they say you should still do them. "The Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation maintains its recommendation that women age 20 years and older practice monthly breast self- examination despite recently published findings."

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Early detection could be your key to peace of mind and a healthy life.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: In fact, this is from the Susan G. Komen Web site. And they have a video that teaches people how to do breast examinations. So again, some groups are still recommending it.

I think it is important to note -- not to make this even more confusing -- but the U.S. Preventive Task -- Health Service Task Force, which is a part of the federal government, they say, you know what, there's not enough evidence to continue doing this. So, Wolf, I think the controversy is going to continue.

But people like the Susan G. Komen Foundation say, look, even if a big study finds that fewer women or that just as many women died if they did the exam or not that doesn't mean that an individual person can get some benefit out of doing an exam. They said we can name women whose lives were saved because they found lumps by themselves. Now that statistically might not come out in a study, but to that woman, what does she think about the statistic? She knows that she found a lump herself and that it saved her life --Wolf.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen, as always, thank you very much. We'll continue to monitor this important story.

Torricelli grows emotional. A balance of power is up for grabs. And Barbara Streisand belts it out. A look at the lighter side of politics with funnyman, Dave Barry, when we come back.

(INTERRUPTED BY COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

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House Publicly Advocates Assassination of Saddam>