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American Morning

Interview with Judith Miller

Aired October 02, 2002 - 09:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Weapons inspectors left Iraq back in 1998 and since then, there has been no reliable way of telling what weapon the country has right now, and what it might be working on.
President Bush says Saddam Hussein has been trying to build mobile labs to produce biological weapons.

"New York Times" reporter Judith Miller has co-authored a book about biological weapons. It is called "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War."

Judith Miller back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING -- great to see you.

JUDITH MILLER, COAUTHOR, "GERMS": Good morning.

HEMMER: Start in the beginning. How much do we know about the origination point for Iraq and biological and chemical weapons, how they got them in the first place, and how we found out.

MILLER: Well, we know that almost as early as Saddam Hussein became leader of that country, he has thrown his country into a series of wars, and in connection with those wars he was always seeking biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. We also know that he actually used those weapons on his own people and on the Iranians during the war, the long war that he fought with them. So this is -- as people call him a kind of serial murderer. He is very unusual, even in Middle Eastern terms, in terms of what he's willing to use on his own people and on...

HEMMER: OK. As part of that argument, your answer, goes back 15, 20 years. Today, what do we understand about how substantial the threat is in Iraq?

MILLER: I think the problem is what we don't know about what he's doing. The inspectors, before they had to leave in 1998, had a series of questions about what Iraq had not been able to account for. We know from defectors and people that I've interviewed all over the world that he is continuing to search for nuclear material to build a bomb, for chemical agents to perfect his arsenal, and for biological weapons. It is believed that he has these mobile laboratories that you referred to. UNSCOM, that is the organization that preceded UNMOVIC, our new inspectors, estimated that he had at least 10,000 liquid liters of anthrax stored. Now, that's a lot of anthrax.

HEMMER: And that goes back when, what year?

MILLER: Well, that is a current estimate of what he may have now. But, as I said, what we don't know is what really worries us.

HEMMER: All right. Let me give you a case in point here. There is a report that came out late yesterday that said apparently there is some movement at suspected sites where some of these chemical could be produced. If, indeed, they have been moved and taken away, if an inspector is back on the ground, let's be conservative, say a month from now, can they take soil samples, can they do testing and say definitively whether or not those weapons were here at one point?

MILLER: It's very hard to say, specifically, whether or not an inspector could, under the right circumstances, find something. Yes, if weapons have been in a place, and the Iraqis have been sloppy, there are chemical residues in the ground, you could find it. But the whole point of the inspection system as it was constituted before and as it is still constituted is it doesn't give the inspectors full and unfettered access to where they want to go.

HEMMER: So, which leads me to the point, then, whether you inspect for a month or some say even a year, do you still then know, definitively, as to the extent of the program, and where the items may or may not be?

MILLER: I think the Bush administration's concern and the inspectors that I've talked share that concern, but the answer to your question is no. We won't know, and inspection in and of itself is not the solution. It helps, and the inspectors did a fantastic job when they were in Iraq before. We wouldn't know about the biological weapons program, if it hadn't been for the extraordinary work done by the inspectors, but it can only take you so far unless and until Saddam Hussein is willing to disarm, there is no guarantee.

HEMMER: You wrote a piece today, A-16 in the "New York Times."

MILLER: A careful reader.

HEMMER: Very true. And the point you make, through talking with numerous people from the Iraqi, let's say, detraction group, is that the White House right now has not forged a future for the government of Iraq, for the people of Iraq if, indeed, Saddam Hussein is thrown out of power.

What are you learning right now about the plans that are in place for that, and how effective have they been in terms of putting them into motion?

MILLER: Well, I think the first thing that concerns us is that the military plans seem to be far ahead of the political plans for what kind of future Iraq we would have, after and if Saddam Hussein is deposed or overthrown. I think the Iraqi dissidents really feel strongly that their decision to make, and the Bush administration has been torn. On one hand, some people would like to just have a kind of nice Muslim general whom they can put in there and establish law and order, but another part of the administration says, no, what's the point of replacing one dictator with another? We have to get behind democracy, and they are trying to encourage the groups to get together to forge a coalition, but... HEMMER: The reality on the ground can be much more difficult, as we have seen time and time again.

MILLER: Yes, and very unpredictable.

HEMMER: Thank you, Judith. Great to see you.

MILLER: Thank you.

HEMMER: Judith Miller, "New York Times." The new book, "Germs," you can pick it up now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 2, 2002 - 09:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Weapons inspectors left Iraq back in 1998 and since then, there has been no reliable way of telling what weapon the country has right now, and what it might be working on.
President Bush says Saddam Hussein has been trying to build mobile labs to produce biological weapons.

"New York Times" reporter Judith Miller has co-authored a book about biological weapons. It is called "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War."

Judith Miller back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING -- great to see you.

JUDITH MILLER, COAUTHOR, "GERMS": Good morning.

HEMMER: Start in the beginning. How much do we know about the origination point for Iraq and biological and chemical weapons, how they got them in the first place, and how we found out.

MILLER: Well, we know that almost as early as Saddam Hussein became leader of that country, he has thrown his country into a series of wars, and in connection with those wars he was always seeking biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. We also know that he actually used those weapons on his own people and on the Iranians during the war, the long war that he fought with them. So this is -- as people call him a kind of serial murderer. He is very unusual, even in Middle Eastern terms, in terms of what he's willing to use on his own people and on...

HEMMER: OK. As part of that argument, your answer, goes back 15, 20 years. Today, what do we understand about how substantial the threat is in Iraq?

MILLER: I think the problem is what we don't know about what he's doing. The inspectors, before they had to leave in 1998, had a series of questions about what Iraq had not been able to account for. We know from defectors and people that I've interviewed all over the world that he is continuing to search for nuclear material to build a bomb, for chemical agents to perfect his arsenal, and for biological weapons. It is believed that he has these mobile laboratories that you referred to. UNSCOM, that is the organization that preceded UNMOVIC, our new inspectors, estimated that he had at least 10,000 liquid liters of anthrax stored. Now, that's a lot of anthrax.

HEMMER: And that goes back when, what year?

MILLER: Well, that is a current estimate of what he may have now. But, as I said, what we don't know is what really worries us.

HEMMER: All right. Let me give you a case in point here. There is a report that came out late yesterday that said apparently there is some movement at suspected sites where some of these chemical could be produced. If, indeed, they have been moved and taken away, if an inspector is back on the ground, let's be conservative, say a month from now, can they take soil samples, can they do testing and say definitively whether or not those weapons were here at one point?

MILLER: It's very hard to say, specifically, whether or not an inspector could, under the right circumstances, find something. Yes, if weapons have been in a place, and the Iraqis have been sloppy, there are chemical residues in the ground, you could find it. But the whole point of the inspection system as it was constituted before and as it is still constituted is it doesn't give the inspectors full and unfettered access to where they want to go.

HEMMER: So, which leads me to the point, then, whether you inspect for a month or some say even a year, do you still then know, definitively, as to the extent of the program, and where the items may or may not be?

MILLER: I think the Bush administration's concern and the inspectors that I've talked share that concern, but the answer to your question is no. We won't know, and inspection in and of itself is not the solution. It helps, and the inspectors did a fantastic job when they were in Iraq before. We wouldn't know about the biological weapons program, if it hadn't been for the extraordinary work done by the inspectors, but it can only take you so far unless and until Saddam Hussein is willing to disarm, there is no guarantee.

HEMMER: You wrote a piece today, A-16 in the "New York Times."

MILLER: A careful reader.

HEMMER: Very true. And the point you make, through talking with numerous people from the Iraqi, let's say, detraction group, is that the White House right now has not forged a future for the government of Iraq, for the people of Iraq if, indeed, Saddam Hussein is thrown out of power.

What are you learning right now about the plans that are in place for that, and how effective have they been in terms of putting them into motion?

MILLER: Well, I think the first thing that concerns us is that the military plans seem to be far ahead of the political plans for what kind of future Iraq we would have, after and if Saddam Hussein is deposed or overthrown. I think the Iraqi dissidents really feel strongly that their decision to make, and the Bush administration has been torn. On one hand, some people would like to just have a kind of nice Muslim general whom they can put in there and establish law and order, but another part of the administration says, no, what's the point of replacing one dictator with another? We have to get behind democracy, and they are trying to encourage the groups to get together to forge a coalition, but... HEMMER: The reality on the ground can be much more difficult, as we have seen time and time again.

MILLER: Yes, and very unpredictable.

HEMMER: Thank you, Judith. Great to see you.

MILLER: Thank you.

HEMMER: Judith Miller, "New York Times." The new book, "Germs," you can pick it up now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com