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CNN NEWSNIGHT AARON BROWN

Another Shooting in Virginia After Monday's Attack Outside a Middle School; A Town in Maine is Unhappy With Its New Immigrants

Aired October 9, 2002 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, GUEST HOST: Good evening, everyone.
We have some late developments in the sniper case tonight. Word of another shooting. Whether it is connected to the string we've seen over a week is still unclear at this moment. We will have more on that story in just a second.

But for a second here we want to talk about a victim. Someone described today as just plain old Jim. He came from pretty modest roots. A quiet family man, they say. A Boy Scout leader who liked red wine and could make a mean milkshake.

A civil war buff, like quite a few men in their 50's. An ordinary guy doing the most ordinary thing a week ago tonight: out in a store buying soda and snacks for his son's church youth group. An ordinary guy who got caught up in an extraordinary tragedy, the first to be gunned down by a sniper still on the loose at this hour in the Washington suburbs.

James Martin was remembered today by hundreds of friends and family, some of whom say plain old Jim would have been embarrassed by all the fuss being made. The victims, it seems, have been a bit obscured in this story. But not half as much as the killer himself, operating almost like a phantom.

As we said, there are late developments and that is what leads off "The Whip" tonight. Kathleen Koch is in Rockville, Maryland, for us tonight -- Kathleen, the headline, please.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, as you said, there is apparently a new shooting, this one in Virginia. We do not know if it is connected yet to the sniper shooting. That, as the killer appears to be trying to communicate with police.

COOPER: All right. We'll follow up with that in a second.

Also tonight, following the al Qaeda money trail. An indictment today out of Chicago, Jeff Flock is on that for us -- Jeff, the headline.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF: Anderson, one of the biggest and most respected Muslim charities in the United States stands tonight accused of funneling money to al Qaeda and terrorism. We'll take a look at what the government's got. COOPER: All right. Jeff, back to you in a minute.

The voice of one of the most wanted terrorists in the world, Kelli Arena is in Washington with that story tonight -- Kelli, your headline.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fresh attacks against the United States and says Osama bin Laden is alive and healthy. U.S. officials say a new audio tape that they believes features Ayman al-Zawahiri is causing a great deal of concern. Back to you, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Kelly. Back with all of you in a moment.

Also coming up tonight: one small town tonight and a struggle over a new group of people moving in. The town is Lewiston, Maine; the people Somalis.

Also, she's bigger and badder than Barbie could ever be. We'll talk with plus-size Emme about her new full-figured doll and look at why the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) crowd is so -- well, so 50 pounds ago.

And in case you're still busy this week reading foreign affairs, as we know you do every week, we'll give you the Cliff notes on the rest of what's on the newsstands. Those are the hard to get through brainteasers like -- well, like "Us Weekly."

All that to come in the hour ahead.

We begin with what might be a new development to the string of sniper shootings in the Washington, D.C. area. We underscore "it might." The story is unfolding as we speak.

The pictures now coming in from Manassas, Virginia. It's about 30 miles southwest of the District, courtesy of Washington station WTTG. There was a shooting here a short time ago. One witness reported hearing a single shot as a man was pumping gas.

Police are on the scene, as you can see right there. Whether it is connected to the string of eight shootings, six fatal that we have seen over a week, it is still unclear. Those are pictures coming in just now from Manassas.

Not the only development in a day that saw several. Here again is CNN's Kathleen Koch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): A taunting calling card found at the site of Monday's shooting may or may not have been left by the killer. A tarot, or fortune telling card like this one, that law enforcement sources say shows the figure of death. A message on the card reads, "Dear policeman, I am God."

Tarot cards are packed with symbolism, but experts say leaving one as a calling card could provide a break-through clue. JAMES STARRS, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: To leave a tarot card at the scene, the way the son of Sam did in the New York cases and the zodiac killer did in California, these are not the kinds of things that show a cunning and careful killer. This is the kind of thing that could be a dead give away.

KOCH: The Montgomery County, Maryland police chief was livid the information had leaked, first reported by a local TV station.

CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: The people in my community have asked the police department to work the case. So I beg of the media, let us do our job. If the community wants you to do it, they will call today and we will have a vote and if it's decided that channel 9 is going to investigate this case, then so be it.

KOCH: Law enforcement sources say evidence found at the Bowie, Maryland middle school, including the card, has been taken to an FBI lab for routine testing, looking for possible DNA, fingerprints, the card's origin, and analysis of the message. Ballistics tests have determined the casing found at the same site is a .223 round, the same type of ammunition used in other shootings.

No word on whether fingerprints were found or whether markings on the casing reveal what gun it was fired from. Dozens of officers, aided by dogs and helicopters, combed through a wooded area in Prince George's County, Maryland, after a resident reported seeing a man enter carrying a dark bag. Nothing turned up.

In Montgomery County, in another incident, police took a 38-year- old man into custody who they say has a history of mental illness, after he fired shots inside a house. It was a short distance from the site of one of the fatal sniper shootings, but police say he's not a suspect.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

When police took the man into custody they spotted one or a number of weapons in the home. They're working right now on typing up a search warrant. And they plan to execute it probably in the wee hours of the morning, Anderson. At that point, they're going to see just what those weapons are. But, again, this mentally ill man's mother says he does not own any weapons that are of the same caliber or that fire the same sort of rounds that have been used in the sniper shootings. Back to you.

COOPER: Well, Kathleen, as we mentioned just a few seconds ago, there has been another shooting in the area again. We want to emphasize that we do not know if this is in anyway connected. Have any of the other shootings that have occurred been at night, or have they all been during the day?

KOCH: All but one. There was one, if you'll recall, Thursday night last week. The 72-year-old man in Washington, D.C., who was shot, and that was at about 9:12 at night. So that was the first night shooting that was among this shooting spree.

So, again, it is very possible that the killer could have struck again at night. It is not beyond the realm of possibility.

COOPER: All right. Kathleen Koch, thanks very much.

We move now to the war on terrorism. The federal government today indicted the leader of an Islamic charity based near Chicago, accusing him of using the charity to funnel money to al Qaeda. The man was already in jail on another matter. The charges this time, much more serious. Here's CNN's Jeff Flock.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

FLOCK (voice-over): This man runs one of the biggest and what had been most respected Muslim charities in the United States. But the government says Enaam Arnaout is not the picture of charity.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: In fact, funds were being used to support al Qaeda and other groups engaged in armed violence overseas.

FLOCK: This is the Benevolence International Foundation Headquarters outside Chicago. An office like this one in Bosnia yielded these pictures of the 40-year-old Syrian-born Arnaout and evidence, the government says, the charity bought rockets and mortars, notes on the founding of the al Qaeda terrorist network, and this Arab newspaper article with a picture of Arnaout and Osama bin Laden.

JOE DUFFY, ARNAOUT'S ATTORNEY: Did Mr. Arnaout know Mr. bin Laden in the 1980's? I would say yes. What was Mr. bin Laden doing in the 1980s? He was building roads and highways in Afghanistan.

FLOCK: And fighting Soviet occupation. Arnaout's lawyers say even the United States government backed bin Laden then. They claimed Arnaout has not had contact with bin Laden since, when these pictures were taken.

ASHCROFT: It is chilling that the origins of al Qaeda were discovered in a charity claiming to do good.

FLOCK: Kareem Irfan, who lives in the Chicago suburbs, has given more than $5,000 to Benevolence International over the years.

KAREEM IRFAN, COUNCIL OF ISLAMIC ORGANIZATIONS: I definitely do not regret it because I did it under the understanding that this was an outstanding institution.

FLOCK: He is not alone. Recent corporate donors through employer-matched programs, according to BIF, include Microsoft, which gave more than $10,000; UBS Warburg, $5,000; Sun Microsystems, American Express, Compaq Computers and Pepsico. How much money did they raise? CNN has obtained a copy of its year 2000 tax filing, which shows contributions of $3.6 million. A review of financial statements show hundreds of thousands sent to Bosnia, Pakistan and Chechnya in its last fiscal year.

The Justice Department is now looking at those records to determine if any of the donors knew their contributions were going to fund terrorism.

ASHCROFT: We will sort through the evidence and separate legitimate donors from those who break the law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLOCK: Anderson, this is some of the evidence. This is a list of some of the donors the government is certain to be looking at that. The other thing we would point out, though, is that at this point, the government still needs to prove its case. One person's terrorist may be another's freedom fighter. So this all still needs to play out. Back to you.

COOPER: Well, Jeff, do we have any sense from the government what percentage of the money that was raised went to what the government says are terrorists?

FLOCK: We absolutely have no indication from the government. Of course the charity maintains that if some small percentage of money fell into the wrong hands, perhaps it's not their fault. But the government even would not say specifically how much money they think went to fund terrorists.

COOPER: You know we saw some of those pictures of this gentleman with what looked like machine guns or various forms of weaponry. Is there any explanation of why he would be photographed? Or if he was just there for charitable reasons?

FLOCK: These pictures date to the late 1980s, when, of course, the Mujahadim (ph) was fighting Soviet occupation. His lawyer described at one point having your photograph taken with artillery or guns sort of akin to being photographed with Mickey at Disney World. It wasn't as big a deal back then as perhaps it is today.

COOPER: All right. Jeff Flock, we will be following the story. Thanks very much.

There is no shortage of things to keep you up at night. Tonight, this next story no exception. Associated Press television news got a hold of an audio tape. Now the voice on it apparently belongs to one of the most dangerous and most wanted terrorists in the world. What he says is causing a lot of concern and tighter security tonight in New York.

Here again, CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Investigators believe the voice on the tape belongs to Ayman al-Zawahiri, thought to be the number two ranking al Qaeda official and the organization's primary strategist. There are a number of dated references on the tape, including increased conflict with Iraq and the first anniversary of the American attack on Afghanistan, leading investigators to believe the tape was made as recently as July. Zawahiri threatens fresh attacks against the United States and claims Osama bin Laden is still alive. The new tape also references attacks on the U.S. economy, leading officials in New York City to tighten security. While no specific target is named, law enforcement sources say security at bridges, tunnels and other sensitive locations was increased.

The tape, combined with the attack on U.S. marines in Kuwait, an explosion aboard a French tanker off the coast of Yemen, and a different audio tape, reportedly with the voice of Osama bin Laden also threatening new attacks, has led to a "period of increased concern," according to senior officials. As one source said, it is not clear which bits and pieces of these events are connected.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Sources say that there has been much discussion about these events and whether they warrant an increase in the national threat level. As you know, Anderson, the level was just lowered two weeks ago to yellow, which signifies an elevated state of alert. Back to you.

COOPER: Now, if I remember correctly, Zawahiri was always sort of in the company or often in the company of Osama bin Laden. Do you we have any idea of where APTV got this tape or where it generated from?

ARENA: We don't know where the tape was made. And Zawahiri's location, Osama bin Laden's location, of course, still unknown. And, as you know, there is a great debate going on within the U.S. government as to whether or not Osama bin Laden is in fact alive or dead. This, of course, some new information suggesting that he is still alive.

COOPER: So, there were time references on this tape. I mean basically references to the one-year anniversary, references to pressure on Iraq.

ARENA: Right. There were several, several things that went throughout the tape. And according to investigators, they believe that they placed this late June, early July, as to when he would have -- he would have put his voice down on this tape. There is still a little bit of analyzing going on to be 100 percent sure that this is Zawahiri's voice on the tape. But experts who have listened to him, countless hours of his voice on tape, say that they're about 98 percent sure that it is in fact him, and that is the operating assumption at this point.

COOPER: And I mean that's a very big deal. There has been a lot of speculation previously that this man was killed perhaps in the Tora Bora caves or elsewhere.

ARENA: Exactly. He and Osama bin Laden. And this is someone who, investigators say, is one of the major strategists, one of the masterminds of al Qaeda. And so, if he is alive and he is willing to -- and able to give a go ahead to sleeper cells around the globe, that is, of course, the big concern.

COOPER: All right. Kelli Arena, thanks. Scary stuff.

Officials in Kuwait say the attack on Marines yesterday might have been -- and I say might have been the first response. The message on the Zawahiri tape. Today there were some other disturbing developments as well.

The head of Kuwait's main mosque is now suspected of helping the gunman. The mosque is more or less the official state mosque, where members of the royal family come to pray.

Now sources tell us authorities think the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) might have helped the gunman get access to the island, which is where the Marines were training where the attack took place. The two gunmen were killed shortly after the raid; it left one Marine dead. The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in question was from the island which is now off limits to civilians. Both the U.S. and Kuwaiti authorities say the gunmen trained at an al Qaeda camp, but they don't know whether they carried out the attack on the orders of al Qaeda or whether they acted alone.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll have an in-depth report on Palestinian civilians killed by the Israeli defense forces. And what Israel is and is not doing to investigate.

And up next, a small main town and the controversy over its new immigrants.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well the execution of a serial killer tops our look at stories from around the country tonight. Aileen Wuornos was put to death this morning at the state prison in Starke, Florida. She was known as the "Highway Hooker," at one time, because that's where she picked up her victims. Also known as "The Damsel of Death" for what she did to them.

She killed six men in 1989 and 1990. After a decade on death row she said enough already, volunteered to die. "I killed those men," she said "and I'd do it again. I have hate crawling through my system." It seems she got her wish today.

In Los Angeles, no bail for actor Robert Blake. The judge today said no. Blake is awaiting trial in the shooting death of his wife. The hearing today featured no evidence and no testimony. Blake's lawyer says he'll ask the California Supreme Court for a full bail hearing where evidence can be presented.

Up and down the West Coast, the first shift of dock workers began showing up on the waterfront today. They'll have a lot in front of them: goods that piled up during the lockout. The judge ordered them back on the job yesterday at the request of President Bush. Now they're up to their (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in cars and lumber and produce and, yes, they have bananas: by the ton. And remember the rally on Wall Street? Well, forget about it. It's back to the daily grind. Big money goes in and comes out small change. The Dow fell 215 points, leaving blue chips down (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Those are 1997 levels, my friends. The other indices fell as well. No good news there.

The rough outlines of our next story could best be described any number -- well it could describe any number of stories from 19th century America, frankly. New immigrants who look and behave very differently from the people already there. And the tension that comes as new and old compete for the same small pool of resources.

But this is 21st century America, not 19th, and the story comes from Lewiston, Maine.

The new faces in town are from Somalia. The old are some of the Mainers who say they're struggling city cannot handle any more strain. Here is Bill Delaney.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that question, what are you going to do?

BILL DELANEY, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): In downtown Lewiston, Maine, Somalis learning how to use the public library. A welcoming unlike a kind of sudden unwelcome last week from Lewiston mayor, Larry Raymond (ph), an open letter asking of Somalis.

"Breathing room," he said. The large number of new arrivals cannot continue without negative results for all. That large number, being 1,060 Somalis, come to the city of 35,000 in the past year and a half.

Somalis, a few days later, offered an open letter of their own, writing, "Your letter is inflammatory and disturbing." And saying of their community, "Of the 416 able-bodied men and women, 215 persons are currently employed." There are three small businesses in Lewiston which opened in less than a year, like Abril Buhon's (ph) month and a half old grocery.

Buhon says of the mayor, who refused CNN's request for an interview ...

UNIDETIFIED FEMALE: ... and he's the leader (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And we'll work with him.

DELANEY: But the Somalis have their work cut out for them.

(on camera): For many non-Somalis living here in the projects in Lewiston's Centerville (ph) neighborhood, the American dream is as lovely an idea and ideal as ever. It's just that right now it seems like someone else's dream is coming true a little too close to home.

(voice-over): Tammy Brown believes the influx into the Centerville (ph) projects of Somalis inevitably means less for the poor already in Lewiston.

TAMMY BROWN, LEWISTON RESIDENT: There has been hostility, yes. My 11-year-old's bus stop last year was about probably 12 to 15 kids, and there are 44 kids now at her one bus stop. And some speak English and some don't. And it is very frustrating.

DELANEY: Bilingual education and other services for the newcomers already cost the city more than half a million dollars. Contributing to the need for cuts in things like little league.

(on camera): Isn't this what America is all about, new people coming in?

BROWN: Yes, it sure is. Yes.

DELANEY: But it's not always so simple.

BROWN: No, not at all.

DELANEY (voice-over): The Somalis say they await an apology from the mayor and they haven't told any of their own not to move to Lewiston.

Bill Delaney, CNN, Lewiston, Maine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well we thought the story worth a closer look. As NEWSNIGHT continues, we'll talk with the city administrator of Lewiston about the situation. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: More now on the controversy going on in Lewiston, Maine between the city leadership and the Somali community. Jim Bennett is the city administration of Lewiston, Maine, and he joins us now from Auburn, Maine.

Mr. Bennett, thanks for being with us tonight.

JIM BENNETT, CITY ADMINISTRATOR, LEWISTON, MAINE: You're welcome.

COOPER: Essentially, what does this issue boil down to? Is this just a matter of two different cultures not getting along? Or is it, perhaps like the mayor says, it is a question of burning our city resources?

BENNETT: Well, my sense is that the vast majority of the people that have expressed concerns in the community, it is about resources. I mean there are a lot of other things that mix into that, obviously, and it's not that simple and you can't put it into a sound bite.

But I believe the vast majority of the people are mostly concerned about the competition for resources and how it's impacted on the decisions that both the council and the mayor and the community have to make.

COOPER: Well you know the mayor wrote this letter to Somali elders. Somali elders responded, as Bill Delaney mentioned in his piece. And basically, they said, look, we have been good for this community. More than 50 percent of the people are able-bodied and able to work, are working. We have opened up at least three businesses and we revitalized some downtown areas.

Apartments were empty; we've occupied those apartments. We are paying money to landlords. What is the problem?

BENNETT: Well think there are a couple things that are going on. First of all, the state of Maine clearly was not ready for this. This is unparalleled in our state and certainly there is no place for us to take a look at it. A lot of our money comes from the state and they have formulas that don't help us capture dollars as quickly as we would like. And certainly the same thing with the Feds.

And why there are successes that we've had, and I think we've done a great job in terms of creating a service delivery. We still have made economic decisions in our budget that are directly related to the short-term help for our new residents.

COOPER: But you know, someone looking at this from the outside, would say, well, look, if these were a bunch of Scandinavian immigrants, or immigrants from Ireland, would there be these same problems? Would the mayor have written a letter to that community?

BENNET: I think they would, if there was a group of individuals regardless of where they're coming from that had the demands that we had on our services and it was easy to be able to identify them through -- because they came as secondary immigrants or if they came in some other fashion. I clearly think that the same process would have played out.

It might have played out a little differently, obviously. But just asking for their help, and that's essentially what the mayor's letter really did, was say, can you help us out a little bit? The staff has said, you know, in a lot of ways, Jim, we feel like we have been running a 100-yard dash for a marathon here. And we just need to catch our breath.

COOPER: Why this letter, though, and why now? My understanding is that since August no new Somali arrivals have come to Lewiston. It seems, if anything, the numbers have dropped off.

BENNETT: They are starting to drop off, that is true. My sense is that the mayor had contemplated doing this for some time. And why we may be, at this point, seeing a little bit of a downturn in terms of the arrivals or the economic impact. I think the pressure within the community, the uncertainty, our big billion-dollar deficit at the state level, a lot of other things were playing into this. And I think it was an attempt to try to be able to talk to a lot of different people and not just the Somali community.

COOPER: My question then is, why -- if you're trying to talk to a lot of people, why just write a letter to 25 Somali elders telling them don't want any more Somalis coming here? Do you write a letter to all the people who receive public services from the city and say, you know, be a little more responsible?

BENNETT: Well I think it was really -- and very specifically to address the new arrivals that have come in. And it is a very informal group. They communicate socially and in ways that are untraditional for us. And it was the easiest way, I think, that the mayor felt to try to be able to communicate to everybody about the issue.

COOPER: What happens now? A lot of hurt feelings. Somalis are angry. The mayor has not met with them. Is there going to be a meeting?

BENNETT: Well, actually, I think things are a lot better off than what is being reported at this point. I met with the informal group of elders that we have -- staff has been meeting with on a regular basis every month. I met with them Tuesday after the events, after their press conference.

I'm scheduled to meet with them again tomorrow. We continue to remind them that their service delivery that they have received from the city continues, it hasn't changed. There are none of those issues.

COOPER: We're sorry, we just got to go. We're out of time. Thank you very much, Jim, we appreciate you coming in tonight. We have a lot of stories going on and we appreciate you spending the time with us.

On to a different controversy between two very prominent African- Americans. Secretary of State Colin Powell and entertainer Harry Belafonte. Belafonte yesterday blasted Secretary Powell for his role in the White House policy involving Iraq. He suggested Powell was acting like a slave who had been invited into the house of the master and was unwilling to challenge the master because of it."

Secretary Powell responded tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it's unfortunate that Harry used that characterization. I'm very proud to be serving my nation once again. I'm very proud to be serving this president.

If Harry had wanted to attack my politics, that was fine. If he had wanted to attack a particular position I hold, that was fine. But to use a slave reference, I think, is unfortunate, and is a throwback to another time and another place that I wish Harry had thought twice about using.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And we have asked to hear from Mr. Belafonte, and we are still waiting for a response.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, we'll update the latest shooting in northern Virginia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We want to bring you up to date on a shooting outside Washington, D.C. Authorities are looking into whether it is connected to the serial sniper who already has six confirmed kills. It happened at around 8:18 tonight at a gas station in Manassas, Virginia. That is the county seat of Prince William County, which is about 30 miles west-southwest of the district.

We're showing you a live picture right now.

The victim, a white man, died. Police say the victim was pumping gas when the shooting occurred. A witness said he heard one shot fired. That is all we know at this time. We will bring you more as the story developments.

We go to the Middle East now, and more bloodshed in Gaza. A clash between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli soldiers. The Palestinians said the firing began after Israeli bulldozers flattened several homes in a refugee camp that's already been damaged.

Israeli forces deny that, saying they were clearing a road when they were fired on.

Two Palestinians were killed and another 15 wounded.

This was just the latest round of violence in Gaza this week. The most deadly incident, of course, was on Monday with more than a dozen Palestinians were killed after Israeli forces went into the area, saying they were going after Hamas. Some civilians were killed, though how many depends on exactly who you ask.

Israel says the raids are necessary to stop terror attacks, but the raid Monday brought criticism from Europe, some members of the Israeli Knesset and the U.S.

Israel says it regrets the death of innocent people and that it will investigate.

But Israeli human rights groups and Palestinian activists say the track record on investigation is spotty at best.

CNN's Ben Wedeman set out to look at the Israeli response to the deaths of three young Palestinians.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saharad Bahaj (ph) rushes to see her son, 13-year-old Baha (ph) killed in Nablus.

Baha might have been just another statistic in this conflict's steadily mounting death toll, but for the presence of witnesses, who say he was killed for no apparent reason.

(on camera): Baha Bahaj was shot on the 22nd of September at 12:30 in the afternoon. He was hit by one round fired from an Israeli armored personnel carrier just down the street.

(voice-over): The Israeli army says Baha was up to no good.

CAPT. JACOB DALLAL, ISRAELI ARMY SPOKESMAN: The initial inquiry indicates that the Palestinian was throwing a Molotov cocktail at Israeli troops. The senior level has ordered further investigation of the incident.

WEDEMAN: The day of the incident the army said Baha was killed when a Molotov cocktail exploded in his hand.

Doctor Fathi Sharif examined Baha's corpse. He says he found no burn marks anywhere on the body.

DR. FATHI SHARIF, ITIHADIYA HOSPITAL, NABLUS: The injury was intrathoracic by a bullet injury from the right side of the chest passed to the left side of the chest and exit wound (ph).

WEDEMAN: Carol Karnes from Santa Cruz, California says she was standing next to him.

CAROL KARNES, ACTIVIST: He had nothing in his hand. And, in fact, the same ABCN (ph) had seen, like I said, they had seen him walking with us for an hour, and during that time he had been holding onto one of the internationals, like gripping onto him almost for protection.

WEDEMAN: Ewa Jasewiecz, like Carol, is an activist who doesn't hide her pro-Palestinian sympathies. She was also there.

EWA JASEWIECZ, ACTIVIST: Yes, he died there in front of us. Blood was flowing profusely from his mouth, from his nose, from his ear.

WEDEMAN: "They killed him in cold blood," his mother told us. "He wasn't do anything."

The army has yet to release the results of its investigation.

Two weeks after Baha's death, none of the witnesses we found have been approached by Israeli investigators.

An Israeli Defense Force's statement said a request for information from members of international agencies who witnessed the incident went unanswered.

(on camera): Israel's chief of staff says that from now on the army will conduct high-level investigations into the killing of every Palestinian women and child. An army spokesman says that about 220 such investigates have been conducted over the last two years, and that around 30 soldiers have been brought to trial before military courts.

He did not have any information, however, about how many Israeli soldiers had been convicted of violating military regulations involving Palestinian civilians. (voice-over): Human rights workers say they have little faith in the army's ability to investigate its cells.

YAEL STEIN, B'TSELEM: When they do investigate, they usually speak only to the soldiers. It is very rare that they are speaking to Palestinians.

WEDEMAN: The Israeli army spokesman says it is standard procedure for military police to question only the enlisted men and officers involved.

The Israeli human rights group, B'Tselem, is following the case killed of Morad Delaoasa (ph), killed last April a day after being taken into Israeli custody in Ramallah.

Israeli troops had taken over the building in which Morad lived with his parents. The soldiers entered their apartment and his mother and sisters say they were closed in a room. Through the door his mother heard her son being beaten.

"I begged them," she recalls. "I begged them, please don't hit him, he's had four operations. They told me, quiet."

Morad suffered from hydrocephalus, a neurological disorder. His doctors had told the 17-year-old, no sports, nothing that would risk injury.

Israeli human rights investigators say that after the beating he was taken to the top floor of the building. The next day, gunshots were heard.

His father shows us the room where he says Morad was killed. The actual circumstances of his death are unclear.

STEIN: The did a token (ph) investigation, as far as we know, and we are now almost half a year after that, and we still didn't have any response from the army about the investigation.

So as far as we know, the investigation is still going on.

WEDEMAN: The army confirms that to CNN, but none of those we spoke to about Morad's death say they were contacted by Israeli army investigators.

15-year-old Ali Khosher (ph) was shot last April in Ramallah while on his way to buy bread for his sister's family 10 minutes before the curfew was lifted.

"No one was throwing stones, nothing," recalls his sister, Halud (ph). "Most people were still inside."

Ali's great uncle Hamada (ph) says the soldiers let him bleed to death.

"They didn't try to help him," he says. "They wouldn't let anyone take him away. Every time someone tried to go near, they would shoot at them."

The army says it looked through its records for information about Ali's death, but found nothing. The death is not under investigation, says the army, because no one filed a complaint.

Few Palestinians file complaints because, they say, the army does little to investigate such deaths and rarely punishes those involved.

Israel's defense minister has consistently denied such charges.

BINYAMIN BEN ELIEZER, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: Everything -- every incidence (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the investigation, that's what I want you to know and (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And when I know that the result is coming, I can take actions. In any case, actions are taken there.

WEDEMAN: With many Israelis traumatized by waves of suicide bombings, the rights of Palestinians are a low priority, say human rights groups.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you're so scared and when you're so terrified, I mean you don't really care about human rights on the other side. You just want to continue living your life. And that's understandable up to a limit. And to think that, I mean, I can understand the feeling of revenge, or the feeling of anger and all those feelings, but I still don't think that the Israeli Army can do whatever it wants.

WEDEMAN: What the Israeli army says it will do, investigate all cases involving women and children. A new system of accountability that might help prevent the death of innocence.

Ben Wedemen, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We'll be back with more news in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: All right, so guess what? Real women are not built like fountain pens. No of course, that's not news unless you're an entertainment industry executive, in which case you may have just discovered the amazing fact that you need three or four of those praying mantis television and Hollywood actresses to make up one actual woman because it is news to them. TV and Hollywood tastemakers, oh very proud of themselves just now, and very excited about a trend their setting. They'll tell you what the zeal of new converts -- that they've broke the last taboo. They are putting women of substance on the screen. Whatever will they think of next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): There is, for instance, the ABC sitcom, "Less Than Perfect" whose heroine, played by Sarah Rue, does not shop in the Petites Department.

SARAH RUE, ACTRESS: Seriously, I just feel a little out of place here having slightly more than 3 percent body fat.

COOPER: This is in primetime. Talk about network bravery. It's stunning, isn't it? Also the biggest -- sorry, not biggest. Didn't say biggest. One of the most successful movies of the season concerns a young woman who -- well, let's just she could wear Calista Flockhart as a belt.

Notice that this movie is not called "My Big Plump Greek Wedding," it's called "My Big Fat Greek Wedding." Thought fat is not what this hot new trend is about, it's about, you know, real women. The kind you actually find walking around.

Not that this hasn't happened before. Here's Cameron Manheim accepting her Emmy a few years back.

CAMERON MANHEIM, ACTRESS: This is for all the fat girls!

COOPER: Who would have imagined that a woman with some flesh on her could act? Unbelievable really.

And now there are even dolls that look like real women. They're made in the image of the well-known plus-size model Emme.

Plus-size, by the way, is one of the new approved euphemisms like zaftig. And Rubensesque, because Peter Paul Reubens painted woman who clearly enjoyed a good meal more than once a month.

Come to think of it, the skinny thing is pretty new, really. The "Venus De Milo" was the standard for feminine beauty for a millennium or so. And she would have been, what a size 14, maybe a 16 depending on the cut of the suit.

Then came Twiggy and Barbie. Actually it's only Barbie's waist that was too small. And all those Greyhounds of the big and little screen.

And now, drum roll, please. Entertainment moguls boldly go where they have never gone before: to Lane Bryant.

GROUCHO MARX: I can see you right now in the kitchen, bending over a hot stove, but I can't see the stove.

COOPER: Note to Hollywood, as long as you're being so incredibly brave, most men don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger, either.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well like Arnold, our next guest is known by one name, Emme. Unlike most of our guest, her name sounds just as good when you say it backwards, Emme. Welcome to NEWSNIGHT.

EMME, PLUS-SIZED MODEL: Well, it's nice to see it.

COOPER: So do you think this really is a new trend? I mean it seems odd that Hollywood seems to be congratulating themselves for just portraying women as they are. EMME: As they are. The diversity of women. It is about time. I don't think it is a trend. I think women who are larger and smaller and medium size have been around since the beginning of time.

COOPER: Well, Hollywood seems to have recently discovered this and seems pretty proud of the fact.

EMME: It's a spin on just drawing attention to, hey, look, this is what we're doing. I'm applauding that and saying this is really, really wonderful that you're stepping in the right direction to showing diverse body shapes as well as hues of colors skin, which we need to see more of as well.

COOPER: There was an article in the "Times" which was basically saying as more women are becoming writers on sitcoms and things, this is why we're seeing this. Before when it was men...

EMME: I think you're right. As women do step into positions of power where certain roles are being made and created, especially with entertainment, this is what's going to happen. Your you're going to see more diverse representations of women.

COOPER: Because when it was men writing these things, they had no problem having full-figured men dating very stick-figure women.

EMME: That could be the stereotypical situation. But I think as people -- when the collective voice keeps on writing to the movies and to the movie houses and as well as the fashion houses, all the entertainment aspects, magazines -- you see magazines turning over and say, Hey, we have been representing beauty in a one dimensional way for way too long. Let's start diversifying and not make a full- figured issue. If we do use someone who...

COOPER: Well that seems to be the thing. Now when -- the few times magazines do the subject, it has to be a full-figured issue not just incorporated. You think about "Us Weekly" and it's what the stars really eat and how to be as thin as Jennifer Aniston.

EMME: Right, Very sad. Unfortunately, I do think that in fact just seeing diversity and getting it out there. Because that's a new step, you're going to make it an issue. But, hopefully in time -- just like the doll that I came out with -- other manufacturers will come out with diverse shapes and it won't be an issue of full-figured.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: These are normal bodies. This is what people look like.

EMME: Right, there's three different body types. And when you know that and when you really truly understand that, that's what is out there. Not just one particular body type.

So, it's a very interesting time. I think that because women have been writing it and because there are more women who are in positions of power are really using their voice and saying we need to see more diversity, there are going to be changes. And it's good. It's not bad.

COOPER: You have done a variety of things in this industry and you've modeled and you work in television and stuff.

I mean, do people know how to deal with you?

I mean, you mentioned just before you went on air, sometimes people say, Well, you're not, you know, big enough.

EMME: I'm not big enough or I'm not small enough and I've have been asked to, you know, wear fat suits for certain auditions -- you know, would I wear a fat suit for a show, a sitcom, that type of thing and I've said no.

I would love to get into acting. I would love that. It would be a wonderful to be able to play all different roles and characters. However, I do not want to jump through loops -- through hoops. I don't want to have be something that I'm not and have the role have to be, Yea for me or nay for me if I have to lose or gain 50 pounds. I mean, that's not healthy.

COOPER: So this is...

EMME: So I keep, you know, I wanted to be able to say, Hey, want to do 125 push ups in an hour? I'll do that with you. I could do that, you know.

But I don't want to have to play with my body that way. Because if I lose 50 pounds, all of a sudden people say, Oh, I loved you at 50 pounds before. Forget about it.

COOPER: You have these dolls out, which are, I guess, full figured?

EMME: You have to feel her, go ahead.

Go ahead. She's got some curves.

COOPER; Right, she has hips.

EMME: Yes, she does. And she's a 14-16. And she's 5-foot...

COOPER: You can't make Barbie like that. Barbie...

EMME: Well, I think there's a lot of room in the doll house, OK?

COOPER: It's not going to come down to fisticuffs.

EMME: No way. No way. No mudfights here. This is a part of extending the doll market and actually helping kids with their body image and self esteem. Percentage of proceeds ware going to be going to those organizations I'm affiliated with.

And I think it's about time to be able to have diversity in the shape. And let it be a subtle thing where kids can feel the difference -- that there's girth difference, but they like the clothes and have they fun with her, so, you know.

COOPER: All right. Emme, thank you very much. We got to run. We got to run to a breaking story.

EMME: OK, got it.

COOPER: Thanks very much.

EMME: All right. Goodbye.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

Next on NEWSNIGHT we'll update our top stories.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, before we go, we want to let you know where things stand with the shooting outside Washington, D.C.

Authorities are looking into whether it is the work of the sniper who is already connected with eight shootings and the death of six people.

This shooting, as we told you about just moments ago, happened at around 8:18 tonight. The place was a gas station in Manassas, Virginia. It's the county seat of Prince William County, about 30 miles or so west southwest of the district.

We're showing a live picture right there. Police are on the scene. The victim was a white man pumping gas. A witness says a single shot was fired, killing the man.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is working the story tonight, the broader investigation as well. She joins us again from Rockville, Maryland.

Kathleen, what's the latest on this shooting?

KOCH: Well, Anderson, a team of investigators from Montgomery, Maryland, the site of five of these fatal shootings left this evening not long after this shooting occurred in Virginia, to go down and see if it is linked in any way.

Obviously, there are a great deal of similarities. Witnesses again report hearing a single shot. This person was alone...

COOPER: Kathleen, Kathleen, I'm sorry -- Kathleen, I'm sorry we have to interrupt you. We have a press conference at Prince William County we are going to live right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:...I will not discuss where in the body he was shot, how many times. We're still preliminarily beginning this investigation. We have been in contact with the officials from Maryland and the task force there. We have some of them here, others are en route. So we are sharing any information that we have.

We also would like if anyone was traveling in the area a little bit after --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody decided to turn up the tape. I don't know who the hell did that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ....to please call Crimesolvers if you saw, heard or know anything. The number is 1-800-673-2777.

QUESTION: Can you tell us if there were any witnesses?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are interviewing a few people now. But that's all I can tell you.

QUESTION: And where was this shot? One shot? Two shots?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going to discuss where the person was injured.

QUESTION: What about Montgomery County or did they contact you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We contacted them.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot comment on how many times the person was shot or where...

COOPER: That is a press conference from police in Manassas, Virginia where a man was shot earlier tonight.

For all the latest on developments in both tonight's shooting, whether it's connected to the others in the broader investigation, stay with CNN for "AMERICAN MORNING", 7:00 a.m. Eastern, right here, bright and early tomorrow morning.

Good night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com



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