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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Tarot Card left at Scene of Monday's Sniper Shooting May Have Been Calling Card; Counties Still Living in Fear
Aired October 9, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: a chilling note left for police. Does the Maryland sniper thinks he's God?
ANNOUNCER: A special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "A Community in Fear: Sniper on the Loose."
Tonight: the search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: The investigators are working very hard. We really appreciate the number of people that have called with tips. And I hope we are closer than we were in the past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Will a tarot card lead police to the killer?
People afraid to go outside, schools in lockdown. What are parents telling their children?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you think you're in a safe area. And safe is only as far as your next step.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Plus, one week since the very first shot was fired: a day-by-day look back at a timeline of terror.
A special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "A Community in Fear: Sniper on the Loose."
Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight: a haunting clue and a possible glimpse into the mind of a serial sniper: a tarot card found near a shell casing at the scene of Monday's shooting at a Maryland middle school. Its disclosure prompted an angry outburst from the police chief.
On the story tonight: CNN's Kathleen Koch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A taunting calling card found at the site of Monday's shooting police say may or may not have been left by the killer. A tarot or fortune-telling card like this one that law enforcement sources say shows the figure of death. A message on the card reads: "Dear policeman, I am God." The Montgomery County, Maryland police chief was livid the information had leaked, first reported by a local TV station.
MOOSE: I am convinced that we are broaching interference and the interference is unacceptable.
KOCH: Moose says police have now tightened up procedures to prevent future leaks.
MOOSE: This is an unwanted adjustment and it does slow us down. It does alter it but we will proceed. We will exercise due diligence but yes, it has caused a change.
KOCH: Law enforcement sources say evidence found at the Bowie, Maryland, middle school, including the card, has been taken to an FBI lab for routine testing, looking for possible DNA, fingerprints, the card's origin, and analysis of the message. Ballistics tests have determined the casing found at the same site is a .223 round, the same type of ammunition used in other shootings.
No word on whether fingerprints were found or whether markings on the casing reveal what gun it was fired from. Dozens of officers, aided by dogs and helicopters combed through a wooded area in Prince George's County, Maryland after a resident reported seeing a man enter carrying a dark bag. Nothing turned up.
(on camera): So, one week after the shootings began, the first possible clue revealed as to what the killer may be thinking. It's information that only creates a greater sense of unease.
Kathleen Koch, CNN, Montgomery County, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: The chief law enforcement official in Montgomery County is Douglas Gansler, the county state's attorney. The sniper struck five times in that Montgomery County. And Douglas Gansler joins me now from Washington.
Thank you, sir, for being with us.
I know you can't talk about the tarot card and the shell casing that was found. But what can you tell us about the progress in the investigation?
DOUGLAS GANSLER, MARYLAND STATE'S ATTORNEY: Well, one of the things that we have gotten is an enormous amount of tips from the community, actually thousands of tips, people calling in, people who know somebody who may have been responsible for this.
The police have checked on each and every one of the credible tips. And the fact of the matter is, cases like this are often solved just like that, through a tip. Somebody calls in and thinks, this guy has been acting crazy lately; he hasn't been around. And that's the way these cases are often solved.
CHUNG: And do you believe that, in fact, this is the way that this case will be solved, because, apparently, the sniper hasn't left a great many clues?
GANSLER: Well, what's so unusual about this case, what makes this case very different from any other case that I'm familiar with is the indiscriminate, random nature of the killings. There is absolutely no discernible pattern amongst the victims or the locations that these crimes have been committed in.
So we have some evidence. We have a great deal of physical evidence. We have a lot of tips. And the police are doing an incredible job, using an incredible amount manpower to follow them up. And, hopefully -- and I'm optimistic that this will be resolved.
CHUNG: You say you have a great deal of physical evidence. Can you give us any more information about that?
GANSLER: Well, not specifics.
But we do know a number of things. We know sort of the type of rifle that this was -- the gun was fired from. We know the locations, approximately. We know that the person, for example, is a marksman. So we know. And then, of course, we have some of the evidence that's been discussed in the media. So we do have some evidence. We hope to get more. And that evidence may or may not become more relevant as we get the identity of a suspect down the road.
CHUNG: And when you say the type of rifle, are you saying specifically a hunting rifle? Or exactly what are you saying?
GANSLER: We're talking about an assault rifle, a rifle that can be fired with pinpoint accuracy from 100 to 500 yards away. And there's very few of those types of rifles that have and hold the caliber of bullet that we do know we are dealing with.
CHUNG: Now, police Chief Moose was very upset today. He was upset about the leaks and he was also upset about certain media coverage. Do you believe that the media coverage has hampered the investigation?
GANSLER: I don't think the media coverage has hampered the investigation. Quite the contrary. This is -- we have an unprecedented level of coordination between the federal, state and local law officials in law enforcement.
And leaks do happen. It's very unfortunate. And I think the chief was expressing his concern for the leak that may have come from a neighboring jurisdiction, something that he can't control. So it's very difficult. And what happens is, the media is necessary in this case, because we need to keep people aware of this. We need to keep the tips coming in, while maintaining the integrity of the investigation and maintaining the safety of our citizens.
So he's walking a fine line. But I think he's doing an admirable job.
CHUNG: I know you personally are not immune from this feeling of fear, because you do have children in the area, in this system, as well, isn't that correct?
GANSLER: That's right.
Montgomery County, as you know, is a very affluent county. It's a huge county of almost one million people. It's bigger than six states. And we have very, very little crime there. We usually count our homicides in the teens. So this has exponentially increased our homicide rate.
There is concern with everybody. My children are also in a lockdown situation at school and don't really understand why their practices have been canceled. This terrorist has injected fear into the very marrow of the community. And everybody in the community feels it.
CHUNG: All right, thank you, sir, so much for being with you, Montgomery County's State's Attorney Douglas Gansler.
As of last year, the Census Bureau estimated that 2.3 million people live in those four counties where the sniper has struck, 2.3 million looking over their shoulders, peering in the trees across the road, sheltering their kids on the way to and from school.
And joining us now to tell us about life in the crosshairs today and a lead that police pursued tonight: CNN's Jeanne Meserve in Kensington, Maryland -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, police have been scrambling all day, responding to tips and emergency calls.
One of those came from this street in Kensington, Maryland. A mother called police about four hours ago to say that her son, a 38- year-old with a history of mental illness, had shot out a window. She told police he had already been interviewed by police about the sniper shootings. When police arrived here, the man gave himself up peacefully, he and the mother both being interviewed.
The mother told police that the gun used to shoot out the window was not the same caliber as the one used by the sniper, but police believe there are other weapons inside. Right now, they are waiting to execute a search warrant to get a look at those. No word yet, no indication whether or not this is related to the sniper shootings, just another anxious moment in a series of anxious moments for this community. The fear is affecting people, particularly where they go. We went to a park in Wheaton, Maryland, today, not too far from where some of sniper attacks took place. For some of the time we were there, there were only two kids playing. Normally, this would be crowded. Now, the kids were thrilled to have the equipment all to themselves. The adults with them said they were unfazed by the security concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to be a prisoner in my own house. And I can't keep the kids in all day. Got to come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If some person is going to shoot you, you should always stand behind a big tree, so the bullet can't go through the tree. Little ones it can go definitely through.
MESERVE: Who told you that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My granddad.
MESERVE (voice-over): Others in the Maryland suburbs chose to forsake the great outdoors for the secure indoors. Shopping malls reported a banner day. Of course, it helped that schools were closed for a previously scheduled staff development day. And some malls had play areas, where kids who have been restricted for days could work off a little pent-up energy. But some patrons said they simply felt safer in an enclosed area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we got out of the car to come in here, I was nervous walking across. I tried to park as close as I could and get in as quickly as I could, and then watching around.
MESERVE (on camera): But inside, you feel secure?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel -- yes, I feel secure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just feel a little bit nervous. And I hope they catch this guy as soon as they can, so we can actually do lots of outdoor activities and get back to our regular schedule.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: The mall we visited has had tight security since 9/11, but officials say they have increased outdoor patrols since the sniper attacks, just one of many steps that businesses and individuals are taking here to try to avert another tragedy -- Connie.
CHUNG: Jeanne, it just breaks my heart to see those little boys talking about how to avoid a bullet. I mean, it's astounding.
MESERVE: The kids didn't voice any fear to us in our conversations, despite that sound bite about hiding behind a tree. But it was interesting to watch them -- amongst the games they were playing on that playground: shooting at one another -- Connie.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh.
CNN's Jeanne Meserve, thank you, reporting from Kensington, Maryland, tonight.
And joining me now, two people who have had to deal more intensely than most with the fear this sniper has created.
Otha Akrea's 13-year-old friend was the sniper's eighth victim on Monday. And that friend remains in critical condition. And Otha's mother, India Haskins, this morning faced the frightening task of sending her son back to the school that served as the sniper's hunting grounds.
Thank you, again, for being with us.
Otha, did you go back to school today?
OTHA AKREA, FRIEND OF SNIPER VICTIM: Yes, I did. I only went there for half a class, because I felt I couldn't stay there today. So I called my mother and I told her I was coming home. I asked to go home.
CHUNG: Why did you feel you couldn't stay there? What was wrong?
AKREA: Because the feeling that happened on Monday, going back to the same place that happened there, I didn't think I could do it.
CHUNG: Really? Were you scared, Otha?
AKREA: Yes, I was. Yes, I was.
CHUNG: What was going through your mind, through your body? Can you try and describe for me what it was?
AKREA: I felt fear. That's what I felt, fear, coming back, you know, going through the school, you know, that happened to my friend. I just couldn't do it. Sorry.
CHUNG: How about your friends? Were they there? Did they stay in school all day, do you think?
AKREA: Yes, I do think they stayed at school. They said that they are not going to let one person scare them away from going to school.
CHUNG: But it was a little too hard for you because it hit too close to home to you?
AKREA: Yes.
CHUNG: Because of your friend.
Tell me, has this affected also the way you feel about people, about trusting people, about having confidence that you are safe?
AKREA: No. This has nothing to do with the way people affected me. No, I don't think so.
CHUNG: All right, well, do you feel that you can go back to school maybe tomorrow or the next day? How long do you think it will take for you to feel better about going to school?
AKREA: Until Monday, probably until Monday.
CHUNG: Let's go over to your mother.
India, I know you did send your daughter, your 11-year-old daughter to school today. Was she OK, because I know she stayed home one day as well?
INDIA HASKINS, MOTHER: Yes, she went to school today and she was fine. I asked her, "How was everything at school today?" And she said she was a little bit nervous, but she said, otherwise than that that she was fine.
CHUNG: Did you feel that it was all right to send your son off to school? Did he seem OK in the morning?
HASKINS: I didn't want him to go to school this morning. But he told me, no, to let him go ahead and go and that he would be OK. And I just kept questioning my husband about it. And my husband said, "Let him go ahead if he wants to go." And he went. And then he called and he said he needed to come home. And I went to picked him up. And he came home. So I was glad of that.
CHUNG: India, what...
HASKINS: I felt better.
CHUNG: Sure. I would imagine you would. And I guess the only other thing you can do is just hug him, huh?
HASKINS: Yes, yes. I do that every day.
CHUNG: That's kind of -- those kinds of hugs just make all the difference in the world, don't they?
HASKINS: Yes, it does.
CHUNG: Now, tell me, how about you? How do you feel about the safety in the area? I know he did go on a bus. You didn't take him.
HASKINS: No, he went on the bus today. Yes, he did.
CHUNG: How do you feel about safety around there now?
HASKINS: I know that we have a lot of security. And I really trust the police officers and the troopers and everyone else that's involved. And I know that they are doing their best. So I feel safe with that. But myself inside, I feel still a little nervous. And everybody is going to feel nervous regardless because of just the situation itself, because you don't know where he's at and you don't know what's going to go on next. CHUNG: I remember talking to you last night. You mentioned 9/11. And you said, even the anthrax scares, all of these things put together have just piled on for you and your family.
HASKINS: Yes. And for a lot of families, because of the fact that it is just so much tragedy. It's just so much going on at one time. And you think everything is good for a couple of months. Then, the next thing, it's something else. So it's tough. It's tough.
CHUNG: Have you considered sending your son to maybe one of the school counselors? Because we're going to be talking with one of the counselors at your school.
HASKINS: Well, I did speak to one. And today at school, my son did speak with someone. And this evening, prior to us coming in here, we spoke to someone for a brief moment in reference to counseling.
CHUNG: Otha, what did you tell the counselor?
AKREA: I told him that I might need a little counseling because of what had happened that Monday and about 9/11 and how I feel about it.
CHUNG: Specifically, what are your feelings about 9/11 and what happened and also what happened on Monday?
AKREA: I'm scared. That's mostly me scared and how that it would be better inside than outside. That's my opinion.
CHUNG: Otha, you seem so confident and so strong. Honestly, I don't see any of that fear in you.
HASKINS: I'm scared.
CHUNG: Well, but you obviously know how you feel.
I want to thank you so much for being with us. You take care.
AKREA: I will. I will.
CHUNG: And, obviously, you have a wonderful mother there and dad who are going to take care of you, too. So thank you for being with us.
HASKINS: OK, thank you.
AKREA: You're welcome.
CHUNG: All right, one of the countless personal stories here: a parent and a child and how they deal with the tragedy and the fear.
And when we come back, we'll meet one person who has been on the front lines for the past few days talking to students, that counselor that I mentioned.
Stay with us. ANNOUNCER: Still to come: eight shootings, six dead, one week, a timeline of terror.
"A Community in Fear: Sniper on the Loose," a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT, will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: If you want an indication of how people are holding up living in the hunting grounds of a sniper, listen to this. Calls to Montgomery County's mental health hot lines are up. Three out of five calls are about the killings. The county Department of Health and Human Services called in extra staff and therapists.
At Tasker Middle School, the site of Monday's school, school counselor John Johnston has been talking to kids affected by the shooting spree.
And he joins us tonight from Washington.
Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for being with us.
I know you've been talking to the students and you've attended some of the classes. What are the kids telling you?
JOHN JOHNSTON, COUNSELOR, TASKER MIDDLE SCHOOL: For the most part, the children are telling me that they are frightened. They want to know what happened and why. But other than that, they want to get on with things. They want to get on with the business of education.
CHUNG: And what do you tell them?
JOHNSTON: What we did, pretty much the staff, the counseling staff and others, on Monday told them that someone was injured. They told them that they were safe and we were doing what we could. We gave them a chance to process and talk a little bit about what they were feeling.
CHUNG: Are they worried that they will become a target of this sniper? It seems obvious, but do they really believe that?
JOHNSTON: Some of the children say that. They say that they are worried, that they are afraid. They are afraid to go outside. They usually have told me they feel safe in school. They feel safe at home. But outside is something pretty scary for them right now.
CHUNG: So how do you assure them that it is actually OK for them to go from the bus to the school or from the car to the school?
JOHNSTON: One of the things I point out is, we have staff there for them. A number of teachers that aren't even supposed to be on duty in the morning are out at the buses now greeting the children. We have police. We have security. We have members from the Upper Marlboro School Board staff. So there's a lot of people there to support the children. CHUNG: My tendency as a parent would be to want to keep my child at home. But I also know as a parent that kids really like routines and schedules and that that works for them. So do you think school provides them with that structure that they need?
JOHNSTON: That's a real good point.
One of the things that we tried to do at Tasker was have, as much as possible, business as usual. Education continued. In some classes, education had to do with discussing what happened on Monday, and how people felt about it, and what they could do about it, and what was safe for them in their lives, and what they could control.
I think part of the feeling that children have, part of the feeling that all of us have at this point is, there is some helplessness. There are a number of things in this world we can't control. If we focus on what we can control, what we can rely on, that we can make some decisions whether or not we're going to have one beverage or another, that we make a decision that we get up out of bed five minutes after or 15 minutes after the hour, if we make some decisions, then we're in control of that aspect of our life.
And those things we can't control, we just simply can't control. And we need to sometimes let those go.
CHUNG: So what was perhaps your most surprising reaction that you got out of any of these kids who came to you and needed help?
JOHNSTON: I don't know that there was something real surprising. I was gratified. Most of the children talked about feeling sad and concerned for the student that was injured, as well as their family. They had their own personal issues of security, but they were concerned about a fellow student.
CHUNG: I think that one student had said to you that she was angry. Wasn't that remarkable?
JOHNSTON: Today, in one of the classes, I was talking and I asked the students about how they felt the adults had handled the situation. For the most part, the students commended the staff, which was phenomenal, in how they attended to not only the students, but each other.
The staff had the same students the entire day on Monday in the classroom. And other staff members, when they could, would give them a break, so that they could relax or take care of some personal needs. But the students were saying: "The staff was wonderful. Our principal was wonderful." They were a little bit concerned about being able to get back to the routine, of: "When were those trucks, the satellite dishes, when were they going to go away? When could we just have a regular day?"
The anger was, one student told me that she was really upset. She heard that somebody in the news said that the school was chaotic on Monday. And I tried to explain maybe somebody from outside saw parents rushing in to make sure their children were safe. But, in the building, the children didn't experience chaos. And the children were concerned. And I said, well, maybe it's a misunderstanding because of what people saw from the outside. They weren't in the building with us.
CHUNG: All right, John Johnston, thank you so much for being with us. And continue on with your good work for those kids.
JOHNSTON: Thank you, ma'am.
CHUNG: Still ahead: tracking the sniper's movements, a moment- by-moment rundown of exactly where and how the sniper struck.
That's coming up right after this.
ANNOUNCER: Still to come: their loved ones lost to a deadly sniper. Families and friends of the victims share their grief.
"A Community in Fear: Sniper on the Loose," a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT, continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: And still ahead: creating a profile of a serial sniper. What does it mean that a tarot card, the death card, the card of change, was found with a note saying, "I am God"? With the help of a veteran profiler, we'll go inside the mind of a possible serial sniper.
We'll be back in 90 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: As of tonight, it is one week since the sniper began his shooting rampage. It began with a single shot Wednesday night. One week and eight bullets later, six are dead, two more injured.
We asked CNN's Gary Tuchman to put a week of fear and loss into focus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Wednesday, October 2. A bullet ripped through a window at a Michaels craft store in Wheaton, Maryland. Nobody was hurt.
But it foreshadowed terrible things to come; 45 minutes later, a gunshot rang through a parking lot of a grocery store in the same city of Wheaton. James Martin was in that parking lot. He was 55 years old, a program analyst for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association. He was also a husband and a man doted upon by an 11- year-old son. He was at the Shoppers Food Warehouse to buy groceries for a church.
The next morning, at 7:41 a.m., the second victim was killed. James "Sonny" Buchanan, a 35-year-old landscaper, was shot while cutting a lawn at a car dealership as a favor for a friend. He taught gardening to children and volunteered his time at Boys & Girls Clubs.
GREGORY WIMS, BOYS & GIRLS CLUB: Sonny was the dad to literally 400 kids. He came to the club two or three times a week, helped with homework, etcetera.
TUCHMAN: Thirty-one minutes later, a man celebrating his 25th wedding anniversary was shot and killed. Prem Kumar Walekar was filling his minivan with gas in nearby Aspen Hill. He was born in India and had hoped to retire there someday. He had a wife, daughter and a son.
ANDREW WALEKAR, SON OF SNIPER VICTIM: I just want everybody to know that my dad was a man -- he was the greatest person I ever met, I ever knew.
TUCHMAN: The shooter was now streaking to another location. Only 25 minutes later, Sarah Ramos is shot dead at a post office near a retirement community. Her relatives mourn next to the bench where she was sitting and waiting for a ride when she was shot. The immigrant from El Salvador was married and had a 7-year-old son. She worked as a housekeeper for this man.
LARRY GAFFIGAN, EMPLOYER OF SNIPER VICTIM: The thing that impressed me about Sarah is that, when she walked into the room, not just a person walked in the room, but something walked in the room with her, something that just warmed the house in your soul.
TUCHMAN: 9:58 a.m. the same morning: A 25-year-old woman is shot and killed while vacuuming her van. It was Lori Ann Lewis- Rivera, who had moved to Maryland from Idaho to start a new life. She was a wife, mother and dear friend.
ROSA MALONE, NEIGHBOR OF SNIPER VICTIM: She comes and goes, and all of a sudden, she gets caught up in this. It's just devastating. There's no words for it.
TUCHMAN: Day turns to night on Thursday and another person is about to be fatally shot. Pascal Charlot was 72 years old, killed while walking near a shopping center in Washington, D.C. The retired carpenter was just going to the store. By this time, tips started pouring in and authorities were taking to the airwaves.
MOOSE: We are certainly anxious. We have our resources deployed. But, yes, people need to continue with life.
TUCHMAN: The next day, a 43-year-old woman was shot near another Michaels craft store in Fredericksburg, Virginia. She survived the attack after the bullet pierced her back and exited her chest. Washington and its suburbs then entered a weekend of anxiety.
And then on Monday, the most recent sniper victim: A 13-year-old boy is shot as he arrives at his middle school in Bowie, Maryland. He is seriously wounded and remains hospitalized.
MOOSE: We have a level of fear that we're not used to, but today it went down to the children. TUCHMAN: And that has only increased the fear. Potential clues have emerged: a tarot card with the taunting words, "Dear policeman, I am God," was found near the middle school, as was a shell casing. But the sniper still remains at large.
Gary Tuchman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: So a week of anxiety and fear, and it's possible this story has an even earlier beginning. In a moment, you'll meet a man who just may have been the sniper's first victim. He nearly died. Now he's telling his story.
You'll hear it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Police have not yet determined whether the sniper's rampage actually began more than two weeks earlier, as early as September 14. That night an unknown shooter, firing from a hidden location, took aim at Rupinder Oberoi and fired a single shot into his torso. Rupinder came close to dying. He was released from the hospital last week and spoke with us from his home earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Rupinder, take us back to September 14. You were helping to close up the liquor store where you worked. And what happened?
RUPINDER OBEROI, POTENTIAL FIRST SERIAL SNIPER VICTIM: Every day, we close the whole store around like 10:10, 10:15.
At that night, 10:10, we closed the store. And all of a sudden, we heard a big pop noise. And I didn't feel anything at that time.
CHUNG: You didn't feel anything?
OBEROI: No, I didn't feel anything. It sounded like a Fourth of July firecracker. But after a few seconds, I couldn't breathe. I had no breath at all. I held my chest. And I had tremendous pain in my chest area, my stomach area. Then I fell down right in front of the store.
CHUNG: So an off-duty police officer came to help. And, eventually, you got into an ambulance. You were on the way to the hospital. Did you think you were going to be OK?
OBEROI: I was scared, very scared. I heard one guy talking to the other guy that: "It looks bad. I don't think he's going to make it."
CHUNG: Were you fearful that you would die?
OBEROI: Yes, because my body inside was hurting real bad. It was hard to breathe. When the ambulance moved, like it turned or bumps or anything, my body really hurt really bad.
CHUNG: What damage did this bullet cause you?
OBEROI: It bruised my kidney. It bruised my liver. It bruised my diaphragm. It punctured my colon from three different places. They had to cut my chest and stomach all the way down, 18 inches, to operate inside.
CHUNG: When did you realize that the person who shot you may very well be this sniper who has been shooting many people?
OBEROI: Thursday morning, I just woke up around 8:00. My brother called. He was like: "Turn the TV on. You want to see this, CNN."
I turned the TV on and it just clicked. Everything just clicked, one shot. All these innocent people were getting killed, no motive. Nobody saw anything.
CHUNG: Can you tell me how you are, Rupinder, your physical condition?
OBEROI: Every day, it's getting better. It's really hard to get out of the bed. Or, if I'm sitting, I really need a good pole to get up. I cannot walk more than two, three minutes. So, slowly, it will get better.
CHUNG: Do you think you'll ever go back to work at that liquor store?
OBEROI: I really don't think so. Even my owner told me that it's really hard for him to come there every day. For the first week, it was really hard for him, because it felt so weird, because he had been there for 14, 15 years, and nothing happened, anything like this, no robberies, no gun shooting in that community.
CHUNG: Rupinder Oberoi, thank you so much for being with us.
OBEROI: Thank you.
CHUNG: And still ahead: inside the mind of a serial sniper. We'll talk to a criminal profiler.
So don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: How could a sniper strike again and again and again in a developed area around the nation's capital in an age of surveillance cameras everywhere? No one seems to have seen the shooter, because the weapon can be used to strike from a great distance.
CNN's Michael Okwu reports on just how a sniper can turn cities into hunting grounds.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm in Kensington, Maryland, which is right in the heart of Montgomery County, where five people were shot. As a matter of fact, one of the victims of this sniper was shot just four blocks from this gun store.
BILL PRINTZE, GUN SHOP OWNER: Yes, hi, how you doing? Hi, Bill Printze. How you doing today?
OKWU (voice-over): He showed me a range of .223 caliber bullets.
And the .223, that refers to the diameter, the size of the actual bullet?
PRINTZE: That's the bullet itself, yes.
OKWU: The kind of high velocity bullet authorities believe are being used by the sniper. This box contains 20 rounds, selling price, $6.95.
PRINTZE: These are made right here for varmint hunting, for shooting ground hogs, for shooting prairie dogs, shooting coyotes where they get -- and something would move in a hurry but they needed to get it to get the bullet to them before they move.
OKWU: This gun shop owner believes police may have a hard time tracking down the gun used. The .223 has been adapted to fit into many different cartridges and hundreds of guns can fire them.
PRINTZE: There are three different rifles here using three of those five cartridges.
OKWU: Bolt action rifles, the at least expensive, $260.
And does it have to be a specially expert to be doing what this fellow is doing?
PRINTZE: For somebody to shoot the way this person is doing, he has to be an expert, has to be proficient in the weapon he's using and he has had to have had a lot of training.
OKWU: Like the police, he believes the sniper is using a rifle with a high intensity scope like this one, easy to target his victims.
PRINTZE: Because it's optically just like somebody wearing glasses or using a magnifying glass when looking...
OKWU: But Printze believes it takes an expert to use one.
PRINTZE: You've got to be exactly right in the centerline of the scope to be able to get there. And your iris of your eye is only this big and that's what you're looking through. It's like taking a piece of cardboard and sticking a wooden match through it and you're trying to move it like that, trying to see something.
OKWU: How do you feel about the possibility that this person might have bought weapons in your store? PRINTZE: I certainly hope that we're not in any way, shape or form part of it. I dearly hope we aren't. You know I would very bad about it if we were.
OKWU: Purchasing a rifle like this one could take you three days. You don't have to be an expert for that.
Michael Okwu, CNN, Kensington, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: No matter what weapon is being used, the question remains: What kind of person would turn it on innocent human beings?
As of tonight, police have yet to establish for sure that the tarot card with the figure of death on it, bearing the notation, "Dear policeman, I am God," is really from the sniper. But because it was found near a shell casing from Monday's shooting, police are treating it seriously and trying to figure out what it might tell them about the shooter. This case is already a rare one because it doesn't easily fit the profile of a spree killer or a serial killer.
Joining us now from Washington to help us sort all of this out is criminal profiler Pat Brown.
Pat, thank you for being with us.
Now, if indeed the tarot card was left by the sniper, what does it tell you?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, it tells us he's exactly the kind of guy we would expect him to be.
This guy is a psychopath. He likes playing games. He wants to be master of the universe. He probably is -- people know this guy. They'll know he's a pathological liar, that he has grandiose thinking. Maybe he's said, "Oh, I've been in the special-ops," and things like that. And he wants to control things. He wants to have a lot of power.
He would be the exact type of person who would leave such a message, "I am God," because, actually, at this point in time, he thinks he is.
CHUNG: What about the shell casing? Do you think that was intentional or was it just a mistake? Was he slipping up?
BROWN: Well, it's hard to say. The longer he does this, the more arrogant he is going to become, and possibly -- and we hope this -- the stupider he's going to become, because he's going to get careless.
Now, when he left this card, if this is his message -- and we don't know that it is yet -- but if he left this card, he knew the police would scour the area and find this. I think he's playing games and he wants to have everybody recognize that he knows he's the center of attention and he is plotting and planning each one of these acts he's doing.
CHUNG: But does he want to be caught?
BROWN: No, he doesn't want to be caught. He just wants to be recognized. No serial killer ever wants to be caught. That's an old myth. What happens is, they just want more and more attention. And sometimes it gets away from them and then they get careless. And then they do get caught.
CHUNG: Now, the Montgomery County police chief was very upset because of a leak. He did not want this information about a tarot card to get out. And it did. He was also upset with people like you and me.
BROWN: Right.
CHUNG: Me, for instance, a member of the media, interviewing someone such as yourself, and what you might say which might hamper the case. Now, is it likely that the killer will actually alter his behavior because of something you say?
BROWN: No, I don't think so. This is one of the things I've been arguing against for a long time, this concept of keeping all this information so hidden from the public, where police believe that, if they let any information out, it will compromise the case.
In a case of a serial killer, you must get as much information out to the public as possible.
CHUNG: Why?
BROWN: Why?
Because we have no idea who the guy is. And millions of people, we have no idea of who this guy is. It's not like you have a pretty good idea it's one or two people, and then you want to keep your evidence hidden for that reason. You have no idea. You need the public's help. This tarot card, the police ought to show the front of that tarot card, the back of that tarot card, and the writing of this person, because somebody out there might recognize it.
CHUNG: What is that going to do to help them in the investigation?
BROWN: Well, this guy obviously owned these tarot cards. He had to buy them some place or somebody had to give them to him or he had them sitting around his house. And he's probably got an interest in this kind of thing as well.
This kind of person may have interest in superheroes, Dungeons & Dragons, any kind of game with power and control, kind of movies like Arnold Schwarzenegger movies, where the "Predator," where he goes after people. He's going to have this kind of interest. Someone might know: "Hey, my cousin Johnny has a deck of those. And he has got guns, too. And he hasn't been around." You want to give people as much information. The more information given out -- and I agree with Chief Moose that you don't want to narrow things. No profiler should say he's between 25 and 30 and he's definitely white. That's silly. But the more information that people can be encouraged to think about that could link some idea in their head -- because what happens is, people don't call in if they have no reason to believe someone might be connected. They're not just going to call in for no reason.
And they're going to say, "I'll feel stupid if I say anything about cousin Johnny." But if they think cousin Johnny has all these things -- he has been in that area; he has the gun; he has this car; he has been talking about being God -- then they're going to call in about Johnny. And that's what we want. We want more tips about who this guy could be.
CHUNG: Every time we have spoken to you, you have said you've always been a proponent of getting more information out there, using the media to disseminate the information.
BROWN: Absolutely, especially in serial killer cases, especially in serial killer cases.
CHUNG: And do you think that this is a classical serial killer, because some of the profilers are saying this person does not fit into a slot.
BROWN: Yes, he does. He fits into the serial killer slot.
In the beginning, he looked like a spree killer. But he has slowed down. He's taking his time. He's picking his people. He's picking his targets. He doesn't have to pick exactly the same kind of victim every time. And no serial killer actually does that. Mostly, they pick males, females, children, kind of a big group. This guy wants stationary targets he can hit. That's his group.
And he does fit a serial killer profile. And that's why we want to use the techniques that we would use to catch a serial killer.
CHUNG: So, if this conglomeration, this group, this coordinated group of law enforcement people indeed have profilers who are gathering information about this person, they should get before the media, you are saying, and describe this person to the hilt?
BROWN: Yes, they should. And they should at least describe the traits of a psychopath. People do not know what a psychopath is like.
And psychopaths have specific behaviors. And that's what we are looking for, not just some poor guy who just happens to have a tarot card in his possession, but the guy who also is the pathological liar, has the grandiose thinking, who says everybody has done him wrong, who lost his job last week. All of these things put together will make people think: "Oh, wait a minute. Maybe I do know who this person is and maybe I ought to call the police."
CHUNG: All right, and, finally, is it likely, in your opinion, that this killer might drop another clue somewhere along the way?
BROWN: He might, because he's enjoying this game so much and he is so arrogant, he might well throw another one out there and say: "OK, you couldn't figure out the last one. Can you figure this out?" or: "You think you're so smart? I'm smarter." And he just might be getting so arrogant, he's getting careless, because, the more crimes you commit, the more chance you have of screwing something up.
CHUNG: All right, Pat Brown, thank you so much. We appreciate it. And I'm sure we'll check in with you again and hope that this story actually will be over.
BROWN: We hope so.
CHUNG: When we come back: a few quick thoughts about tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tomorrow: A shooter stalking the Washington area, few clues to go on, but this was 10 years ago. How did police catch that shooter? We'll ask a former D.C. homicide cop who worked the case.
Plus: Last month, an alligator attacked him and swallowed his arm. So they caught it and actually pulled the arm back out. What happened then? You'll find out from the man who survived the attack tomorrow night.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Secretary of State Colin Powell; plus, Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, have a good night.
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