Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Talk with Witness at Scene of Falls Church Shooting

Aired October 15, 2002 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to that scene now in Virginia. Last night about nine o'clock Eastern Time, Falls Church, near a very crowded intersection there.
Michael Okwu standing by again with us to talk more about what happened last night and with a witness who was near that scene -- Michael, good morning again.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

This morning's edition of the "Washington Post" has an article inside of it of what happened at the Home Depot and what the scene was inside. It talks about people, the whole world rushing into the store and about the people, the customers inside laying down onto the ground and essentially screaming at the top of their lungs to shut the door, that there was a shooter outside and that somebody had been shot.

I'm joined now by Joy Zucker, who arrived here on the scene just minutes after the shooting.

Can you tell me what you saw and what you did?

JOY ZUCKER, EYEWITNESS: I was up on the upper deck doing some errands and came through the parking lot. I had actually been passed by a police officer who had his lights on, was not running any sirens. I didn't really think much of it. I came down into the parking lot, parked my car at Home Depot. I was going to run an errand in there.

And as soon as I got out of the car I noticed that there was another police car already in the parking lot. It turns out that police car was actually right in front of the victim, who was already covered at that point. And as I approached the store front, it was amazing. There were 25 or 30 customers as well as employees that were all gathered at the front entrance, an incredibly significant fear and calm over these individuals, very well aware that a crime, whether it was the sniper or not, but a crime had come to their home in Falls Church, and these people were very affected.

I think the most interesting thing, though, was that these individuals knew that they had seen a crime and they were waiting to talk to officials. They were otherwise, I mean there were some people who were concerned and wanted to leave and, in fact, because police were very busy cordoning off the area and trying to contain the crime scene, there were several individuals who were trying to make their way out of the store and I just walked up to several of them and asked if they had seen anything, had they heard anything, did they know anything firsthand. And as I was able to identify a couple of those witnesses, just made sure that they were waiting off to the side and were willing to talk to police, if they hadn't already. There were a couple of people who hadn't talked to police yet.

OKWU: Joy, give me a sense, I mean for people all around the country who don't know what it's like to live here and just be here and travel from Point A to Point B in this area right now, give me a sense of what you were feeling and what other people were feeling when they arrived at the scene and it became very clear that their worst nightmare, certainly the worst nightmare in the past week and a half, had actually occurred.

ZUCKER: I think that people, by and large, have been very concerned. I had been out of the country until this weekend but I was very well aware of the story. I came back on Saturday night. And I know my own family was very worried. I was taking care of my nephews yesterday. They were off from school. And the concern about not being outside.

But I think people here really didn't think it was going to come this close to their neighborhood. But these individuals were just shocked. It's, you hear it every time at a crime scene. But until you actually are physically here and you see that fear in your eyes, but these individuals, if that shooter were anywhere in the parking lot, I don't think they would have waited a second for the police. They would have taken matters into their own hands.

OKWU: Joy Zucker, appreciate your time.

ZUCKER: You're welcome.

OKWU: Take care.

ZUCKER: You, too.

OKWU: That just gives you a sense, Bill, of some of the tension that's here. She talks about the fact that people here were willing to do anything to try to get this person and, in fact, when we were driving to a location just on Friday, the last location of the last victim, we heard on the radio several people calling into authorities, trying to give them descriptions of white vehicles in the area. You get a sense that people are very scared here, but also very determined to try to find this sniper or snipers, whatever the case may be.

Back to you -- Bill.

HEMMER: Investigators need all eyes and all ears on the ground. They can take it.

Michael, thank you.

CNN criminologist Dr. Casey Jordan our guest now this morning.

Good morning again to you.

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning.

HEMMER: Your take today on this is what, now?

JORDAN: Actually, I was caught by surprise. We had gotten so far through Monday that I really thought we were going to get through a day without a shooting, a Monday without a shooting.

HEMMER: What led you to believe that? Why did you think that way?

JORDAN: Well, we had gone the weekend, and it was a very interesting weekend that we were on standby, because we were comparing it to the previous weekend, in which we had had no shootings. Then we started to hypothesize that because Monday was a holiday, perhaps he would not strike. Certainly there was no school and the Monday previous there had been the school shooting. And even though it's a little bit later by only a few minutes, I think it was the latest shooting that we had experienced so far.

HEMMER: Last hour Mike Brooks said that police now have two shell casings. That's the first time I heard that.

JORDAN: It's the first time.

HEMMER: Prior to that we only thought they had one. As a criminologist, where would that take you now?

JORDAN: Well, we can't, again, read too much into it, except if the information is coming out this morning, we could probably assess that they recovered a shell casing last night. I think last night really showed a turnout of police manpower and determination. There's such a heightened determination that we have not seen before, that, of, with all the effort they put out there, if they recovered a shell casing last night, it would not surprise me.

HEMMER: And that's why it makes it so complex, because the response was so quick and so immediate and still the killer got away.

JORDAN: Well...

HEMMER: Same case last Friday morning.

JORDAN: Right. And it's really an issue of very careful planning with traffic arteries. We call that permeability, how many escape routes are there in a given location. He or they are choosing their targets very carefully, not the victim, per se, but the location, so that they had a getaway route, I would guess, planned in advance and were out of there before police got there.

HEMMER: One exception on this case, though, an exception from the previous three or four shootings. There was no highway nearby, no quick on ramp to get away. There was an intersection where seven roads essentially come together. Quite bold. Quite brazen.

JORDAN: Yes. Except that you also have a lot of back alleys behind major shopping complexes. HEMMER: Sure.

JORDAN: And I think what disturbs me the most, of course, is that all reports are that the victim was shot in the presence, standing next to her husband. That's a new thing that we have not see yet either.

HEMMER: Absolutely sick. It makes your stomach turn.

Thank you, Casey Jordan. We'll talk again, unfortunately.

JORDAN: Yes.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 15, 2002 - 08:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to that scene now in Virginia. Last night about nine o'clock Eastern Time, Falls Church, near a very crowded intersection there.
Michael Okwu standing by again with us to talk more about what happened last night and with a witness who was near that scene -- Michael, good morning again.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

This morning's edition of the "Washington Post" has an article inside of it of what happened at the Home Depot and what the scene was inside. It talks about people, the whole world rushing into the store and about the people, the customers inside laying down onto the ground and essentially screaming at the top of their lungs to shut the door, that there was a shooter outside and that somebody had been shot.

I'm joined now by Joy Zucker, who arrived here on the scene just minutes after the shooting.

Can you tell me what you saw and what you did?

JOY ZUCKER, EYEWITNESS: I was up on the upper deck doing some errands and came through the parking lot. I had actually been passed by a police officer who had his lights on, was not running any sirens. I didn't really think much of it. I came down into the parking lot, parked my car at Home Depot. I was going to run an errand in there.

And as soon as I got out of the car I noticed that there was another police car already in the parking lot. It turns out that police car was actually right in front of the victim, who was already covered at that point. And as I approached the store front, it was amazing. There were 25 or 30 customers as well as employees that were all gathered at the front entrance, an incredibly significant fear and calm over these individuals, very well aware that a crime, whether it was the sniper or not, but a crime had come to their home in Falls Church, and these people were very affected.

I think the most interesting thing, though, was that these individuals knew that they had seen a crime and they were waiting to talk to officials. They were otherwise, I mean there were some people who were concerned and wanted to leave and, in fact, because police were very busy cordoning off the area and trying to contain the crime scene, there were several individuals who were trying to make their way out of the store and I just walked up to several of them and asked if they had seen anything, had they heard anything, did they know anything firsthand. And as I was able to identify a couple of those witnesses, just made sure that they were waiting off to the side and were willing to talk to police, if they hadn't already. There were a couple of people who hadn't talked to police yet.

OKWU: Joy, give me a sense, I mean for people all around the country who don't know what it's like to live here and just be here and travel from Point A to Point B in this area right now, give me a sense of what you were feeling and what other people were feeling when they arrived at the scene and it became very clear that their worst nightmare, certainly the worst nightmare in the past week and a half, had actually occurred.

ZUCKER: I think that people, by and large, have been very concerned. I had been out of the country until this weekend but I was very well aware of the story. I came back on Saturday night. And I know my own family was very worried. I was taking care of my nephews yesterday. They were off from school. And the concern about not being outside.

But I think people here really didn't think it was going to come this close to their neighborhood. But these individuals were just shocked. It's, you hear it every time at a crime scene. But until you actually are physically here and you see that fear in your eyes, but these individuals, if that shooter were anywhere in the parking lot, I don't think they would have waited a second for the police. They would have taken matters into their own hands.

OKWU: Joy Zucker, appreciate your time.

ZUCKER: You're welcome.

OKWU: Take care.

ZUCKER: You, too.

OKWU: That just gives you a sense, Bill, of some of the tension that's here. She talks about the fact that people here were willing to do anything to try to get this person and, in fact, when we were driving to a location just on Friday, the last location of the last victim, we heard on the radio several people calling into authorities, trying to give them descriptions of white vehicles in the area. You get a sense that people are very scared here, but also very determined to try to find this sniper or snipers, whatever the case may be.

Back to you -- Bill.

HEMMER: Investigators need all eyes and all ears on the ground. They can take it.

Michael, thank you.

CNN criminologist Dr. Casey Jordan our guest now this morning.

Good morning again to you.

CASEY JORDAN, CNN CRIMINOLOGIST: Good morning.

HEMMER: Your take today on this is what, now?

JORDAN: Actually, I was caught by surprise. We had gotten so far through Monday that I really thought we were going to get through a day without a shooting, a Monday without a shooting.

HEMMER: What led you to believe that? Why did you think that way?

JORDAN: Well, we had gone the weekend, and it was a very interesting weekend that we were on standby, because we were comparing it to the previous weekend, in which we had had no shootings. Then we started to hypothesize that because Monday was a holiday, perhaps he would not strike. Certainly there was no school and the Monday previous there had been the school shooting. And even though it's a little bit later by only a few minutes, I think it was the latest shooting that we had experienced so far.

HEMMER: Last hour Mike Brooks said that police now have two shell casings. That's the first time I heard that.

JORDAN: It's the first time.

HEMMER: Prior to that we only thought they had one. As a criminologist, where would that take you now?

JORDAN: Well, we can't, again, read too much into it, except if the information is coming out this morning, we could probably assess that they recovered a shell casing last night. I think last night really showed a turnout of police manpower and determination. There's such a heightened determination that we have not seen before, that, of, with all the effort they put out there, if they recovered a shell casing last night, it would not surprise me.

HEMMER: And that's why it makes it so complex, because the response was so quick and so immediate and still the killer got away.

JORDAN: Well...

HEMMER: Same case last Friday morning.

JORDAN: Right. And it's really an issue of very careful planning with traffic arteries. We call that permeability, how many escape routes are there in a given location. He or they are choosing their targets very carefully, not the victim, per se, but the location, so that they had a getaway route, I would guess, planned in advance and were out of there before police got there.

HEMMER: One exception on this case, though, an exception from the previous three or four shootings. There was no highway nearby, no quick on ramp to get away. There was an intersection where seven roads essentially come together. Quite bold. Quite brazen.

JORDAN: Yes. Except that you also have a lot of back alleys behind major shopping complexes. HEMMER: Sure.

JORDAN: And I think what disturbs me the most, of course, is that all reports are that the victim was shot in the presence, standing next to her husband. That's a new thing that we have not see yet either.

HEMMER: Absolutely sick. It makes your stomach turn.

Thank you, Casey Jordan. We'll talk again, unfortunately.

JORDAN: Yes.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com