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American Morning
Interview With Cliff May, Jennifer Palmieri
Aired October 31, 2002 - 07:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Haitian-Americans are demanding that the refugees, who came on shore Tuesday in Florida, be given the same treatment as Cubans, who are usually allowed to stay. Having a hot- button issue like this wash ashore is the last thing Governor Jeb Bush needs in the middle of a close race.
Joining us now from Washington to debate the issue and the elections, Cliff May, former communications director of the Republican National Committee, and Jennifer Palmieri, press secretary for the Democratic National Committee.
Welcome back, you two.
CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIRECTOR: Good morning.
JENNIFER PALMIERI, DNC PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.
ZAHN: Let's talk about this hot race for the governorship of Florida. The sparks really began to fly yesterday as we see the poll numbers tightening there. And this whole issue of the Haitians washing ashore came up.
Let's listen to some of the debate right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came to ask you if you would call your brother and ask him to call INS to release the Haitians that are in detention. They don't need any new policy. All they have to do is call (ph), the wet foot-dry foot policy will take affect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: All right, Cliff, that's Carrie Meek (ph), who represents a number of those in the African-American community, who think this policy is very unfair, and that there is a double-standard for Haitians and Cubans.
Why is she wrong?
MAY: Well, let's say -- first of all, we're a nation of immigrants. We should always have immigration. We have a very strong Haitian-American community in this country, and they are great citizens. But, people should come to this country as immigrants legally, not illegally.
And when you have hundreds of people piling on boats and rafts and jumping into the water and coming ashore, and you say, OK, that's OK, you can all come in, and particularly after 9/11, we cannot have our borders be like broken screen doors. Now, there's a difference...
ZAHN: Come to the question -- hang on one sec.
MAY: Yes.
ZAHN: Is there a double-standard or not here?
MAY: No, there's a difference is what there is. We have an embassy in Haiti. People can come and apply for citizenship. We don't have relations with Castro. Castro doesn't let people leave. The few people who do get out, if we send them back, they will be either killed or put into prison.
By contrast, Haiti is a nation we have tried to build up. President Carter went there in the 1990s. Nine times, President Clinton sent the army in. We need to help the Haitian people in Haiti. Unfortunately, we cannot help the Cuban people in Cuba.
There is a difference. We are a nation that stands against tyranny. We cannot send back people who have escaped from that tyranny that Castro has instituted...
ZAHN: Jennifer...
MAY: ... to Castro's arms.
ZAHN: ... jump in here.
PALMIERI: OK. I think that, Paula, you really hit on it when you talked about a double-standard. I think that all of us are uncomfortable seeing refugees who, you know, so desperately risk their lives to come to our country being treated like common criminals. And I think that's because we sense there's a fundamental unfairness in that.
It's true that, you know, I think it's fortunate that when Cuban refugees come to this country, they are treated fairly. They are offered the opportunity to seek political asylum, and what we are -- you know, many Democrats and many Republicans in Florida are searching for is the same treatment for Haitian refugees.
MAY: You know, the answer to global poverty simply cannot be that America opens its doors to all of the world.
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: Well, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is the answer to global poverty.
MAY: We have -- well, then we can't say that people who come here illegally...
PALMIERI: But...
MAY: ... and jump off boats a chance, of course, are going to be given refugee as political refugees.
PALMIERI: OK, but...
MAY: We're going to treat the Haitians and the Mexicans...
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: ... clear that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
MAY: ... but more like we treat the Mexicans...
ZAHN: OK, hang on., hang on.
PALMIERI: It's kind (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is not...
ZAHN: One at a time here.
PALMIERI: ... but it's clear that the current situation is not working. I mean, the reality is the Haitians are going to continue to try to come to the United States. You know, we don't see thousands and thousands of them coming. We have, you know, an incident here involving some 200 people.
MAY: And we're going to have...
PALMIERI: But what we need to do...
MAY: Jennifer, we're going to have...
PALMIERI: But what we need to -- these people deserve due process...
MAY: Of course, they deserve due process. No one is suggesting...
PALMIERI: And when we see -- I mean, when we have refugees coming here with the way they're risking their lives...
MAY: Jennifer, what are you saying?
PALMIERI: I'm saying that they deserve due process.
MAY: What does that mean?
PALMIERI: That they deserve to have -- to be considered...
MAY: Are these political refugees?
PALMIERI: They deserve to be considered as to whether or not they're political asylum (ph).
MAY: Wait a minute, we have...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, can I -- quickly, because I've got to move you onto the politics of all of this. There are Democrats, Cliff, who suggest that the reasons why Cubans get this treatment is that they vote Republican. I need a quick closing thought from you on that, and then, Jennifer, you get to wrap up the segment. You've got about 10 seconds.
MAY: And the Republicans are going to say that the reason that Jennifer is saying, sure, let all of the Haitians who want to come here to escape poverty come, is because they're trying to get the African-American vote in Florida jenned (ph) up to make sure that there's a big turnout there.
PALMIERI: We're not saying that...
MAY: But the difference is that is when you have a political refugee and an economic refugee are in different classes. Haitian refugees, Mexican refugees, it's one thing if they're fleeing form tyranny; it's another thing if they're coming here for jobs and health care and education. I understand the impulse. We cannot take all of the world's poor here. There are hundreds of millions of people.
ZAHN: Jennifer?
PALMIERI: Yes.
ZAHN: So, you get the last word. We're going to get bump up into a commercial break.
PALMIERI: OK, thanks. I mean, we're not saying that they deserve to say, and definitely they deserve to be considered for political asylum. And you know, politics is always at play, and I think that Cubans have been the beneficiaries of that. And it's time for Haitians to be treated fairly.
Fix the INS, and then we can treat all people fairly. Right now, the INS is broken, and the Democrats won't fix it.
PALMIERI: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that.
MAY: Then fix it, because there's a bill in the House that's very good to fix the INS...
ZAHN: Jennifer?
PALMIERI: Yes, ma'am.
MAY: ... nothing in the Senate.
ZAHN: A quick yes or no. Does Jeb Bush get reelected? Or is this issue really going to hurt him?
PALMIERI: Oh, I don't think so, and I think it's just -- it's pretty damning for the president of the United States that he can't get his little brother elected -- reelected as governor of the state of Florida with the type of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that President Bush has. So, we're going to have an interesting weekend in Florida with President Clinton down there and President Bush, and... ZAHN: Cliff, you get five seconds, and then we've really got to go, because we're going to go jam into this commercial.
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: ... Tuesday.
MAY: Yes, I think Jeb Bush is going to do just fine, despite the fact that this is an effort, obviously to increase turnout among African-Americans by saying that the Haitians who are coming here jumping off of boats are not being treated fairly. What's really not unfair is if we say to Haitians, come here on any raft you can, risk your lives...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Got to leave it there, you two.
MAY: Thank you.
ZAHN: Cliff May, Jennifer Palmieri, got to go.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired October 31, 2002 - 07:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Haitian-Americans are demanding that the refugees, who came on shore Tuesday in Florida, be given the same treatment as Cubans, who are usually allowed to stay. Having a hot- button issue like this wash ashore is the last thing Governor Jeb Bush needs in the middle of a close race.
Joining us now from Washington to debate the issue and the elections, Cliff May, former communications director of the Republican National Committee, and Jennifer Palmieri, press secretary for the Democratic National Committee.
Welcome back, you two.
CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIRECTOR: Good morning.
JENNIFER PALMIERI, DNC PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.
ZAHN: Let's talk about this hot race for the governorship of Florida. The sparks really began to fly yesterday as we see the poll numbers tightening there. And this whole issue of the Haitians washing ashore came up.
Let's listen to some of the debate right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came to ask you if you would call your brother and ask him to call INS to release the Haitians that are in detention. They don't need any new policy. All they have to do is call (ph), the wet foot-dry foot policy will take affect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: All right, Cliff, that's Carrie Meek (ph), who represents a number of those in the African-American community, who think this policy is very unfair, and that there is a double-standard for Haitians and Cubans.
Why is she wrong?
MAY: Well, let's say -- first of all, we're a nation of immigrants. We should always have immigration. We have a very strong Haitian-American community in this country, and they are great citizens. But, people should come to this country as immigrants legally, not illegally.
And when you have hundreds of people piling on boats and rafts and jumping into the water and coming ashore, and you say, OK, that's OK, you can all come in, and particularly after 9/11, we cannot have our borders be like broken screen doors. Now, there's a difference...
ZAHN: Come to the question -- hang on one sec.
MAY: Yes.
ZAHN: Is there a double-standard or not here?
MAY: No, there's a difference is what there is. We have an embassy in Haiti. People can come and apply for citizenship. We don't have relations with Castro. Castro doesn't let people leave. The few people who do get out, if we send them back, they will be either killed or put into prison.
By contrast, Haiti is a nation we have tried to build up. President Carter went there in the 1990s. Nine times, President Clinton sent the army in. We need to help the Haitian people in Haiti. Unfortunately, we cannot help the Cuban people in Cuba.
There is a difference. We are a nation that stands against tyranny. We cannot send back people who have escaped from that tyranny that Castro has instituted...
ZAHN: Jennifer...
MAY: ... to Castro's arms.
ZAHN: ... jump in here.
PALMIERI: OK. I think that, Paula, you really hit on it when you talked about a double-standard. I think that all of us are uncomfortable seeing refugees who, you know, so desperately risk their lives to come to our country being treated like common criminals. And I think that's because we sense there's a fundamental unfairness in that.
It's true that, you know, I think it's fortunate that when Cuban refugees come to this country, they are treated fairly. They are offered the opportunity to seek political asylum, and what we are -- you know, many Democrats and many Republicans in Florida are searching for is the same treatment for Haitian refugees.
MAY: You know, the answer to global poverty simply cannot be that America opens its doors to all of the world.
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: Well, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is the answer to global poverty.
MAY: We have -- well, then we can't say that people who come here illegally...
PALMIERI: But...
MAY: ... and jump off boats a chance, of course, are going to be given refugee as political refugees.
PALMIERI: OK, but...
MAY: We're going to treat the Haitians and the Mexicans...
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: ... clear that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
MAY: ... but more like we treat the Mexicans...
ZAHN: OK, hang on., hang on.
PALMIERI: It's kind (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is not...
ZAHN: One at a time here.
PALMIERI: ... but it's clear that the current situation is not working. I mean, the reality is the Haitians are going to continue to try to come to the United States. You know, we don't see thousands and thousands of them coming. We have, you know, an incident here involving some 200 people.
MAY: And we're going to have...
PALMIERI: But what we need to do...
MAY: Jennifer, we're going to have...
PALMIERI: But what we need to -- these people deserve due process...
MAY: Of course, they deserve due process. No one is suggesting...
PALMIERI: And when we see -- I mean, when we have refugees coming here with the way they're risking their lives...
MAY: Jennifer, what are you saying?
PALMIERI: I'm saying that they deserve due process.
MAY: What does that mean?
PALMIERI: That they deserve to have -- to be considered...
MAY: Are these political refugees?
PALMIERI: They deserve to be considered as to whether or not they're political asylum (ph).
MAY: Wait a minute, we have...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, can I -- quickly, because I've got to move you onto the politics of all of this. There are Democrats, Cliff, who suggest that the reasons why Cubans get this treatment is that they vote Republican. I need a quick closing thought from you on that, and then, Jennifer, you get to wrap up the segment. You've got about 10 seconds.
MAY: And the Republicans are going to say that the reason that Jennifer is saying, sure, let all of the Haitians who want to come here to escape poverty come, is because they're trying to get the African-American vote in Florida jenned (ph) up to make sure that there's a big turnout there.
PALMIERI: We're not saying that...
MAY: But the difference is that is when you have a political refugee and an economic refugee are in different classes. Haitian refugees, Mexican refugees, it's one thing if they're fleeing form tyranny; it's another thing if they're coming here for jobs and health care and education. I understand the impulse. We cannot take all of the world's poor here. There are hundreds of millions of people.
ZAHN: Jennifer?
PALMIERI: Yes.
ZAHN: So, you get the last word. We're going to get bump up into a commercial break.
PALMIERI: OK, thanks. I mean, we're not saying that they deserve to say, and definitely they deserve to be considered for political asylum. And you know, politics is always at play, and I think that Cubans have been the beneficiaries of that. And it's time for Haitians to be treated fairly.
Fix the INS, and then we can treat all people fairly. Right now, the INS is broken, and the Democrats won't fix it.
PALMIERI: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that.
MAY: Then fix it, because there's a bill in the House that's very good to fix the INS...
ZAHN: Jennifer?
PALMIERI: Yes, ma'am.
MAY: ... nothing in the Senate.
ZAHN: A quick yes or no. Does Jeb Bush get reelected? Or is this issue really going to hurt him?
PALMIERI: Oh, I don't think so, and I think it's just -- it's pretty damning for the president of the United States that he can't get his little brother elected -- reelected as governor of the state of Florida with the type of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that President Bush has. So, we're going to have an interesting weekend in Florida with President Clinton down there and President Bush, and... ZAHN: Cliff, you get five seconds, and then we've really got to go, because we're going to go jam into this commercial.
(CROSSTALK)
PALMIERI: ... Tuesday.
MAY: Yes, I think Jeb Bush is going to do just fine, despite the fact that this is an effort, obviously to increase turnout among African-Americans by saying that the Haitians who are coming here jumping off of boats are not being treated fairly. What's really not unfair is if we say to Haitians, come here on any raft you can, risk your lives...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Got to leave it there, you two.
MAY: Thank you.
ZAHN: Cliff May, Jennifer Palmieri, got to go.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
