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CNN Saturday Morning News

Story of Atheist Eagle Scout

Aired November 02, 2002 - 08:47   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And now the story of the atheist Eagle Scout. Nineteen-year-old Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges. He has achieved the highest Boy Scout rank, Eagle Scout, and he's on the verge of being kicked out. The Boy Scout oath includes a vow to do my duty to God. There you see the key point right there on the screen. And Darrell says he's not a believer.
Darrell joins us from Seattle. We asked the Boy Scouts to send a representative. They declined. We'll read a statement from them in just a little bit.

Darrell, good to have you with us.

DARRELL LAMBERT, ATHEIST BOY SCOUT: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: All right, when did this sort of all come to a head? Did they ask you point blank about your beliefs at some point in the process of becoming an Eagle Scout?

LAMBERT: No, I said them, it was, I elected to say them after some comments were said about atheists cannot be good citizens and that they, you know, a person asks, you know, kids during Scoutmaster conferences if they believe in God and if they don't he will, you know, not pass them and boot them out.

O'BRIEN: So you were asked a point blank question, do you believe in God? And your response was what?

LAMBERT: No, I don't believe in God.

O'BRIEN: OK. And what was their response after that? Were they sort of shocked? Did they tell you well, do you want to reconsider? How did it go from there?

LAMBERT: Well, I said if -- they told me that if those were my beliefs, then I'm no longer welcome in Scouting. And they have given me more, you know, time to reconsider and I still have that time, I guess. They gave me even more time yesterday. So I'm not sure when they're going to figure out that my beliefs are not going to change.

O'BRIEN: So you're not changing your beliefs. Now, one of the Scout leaders there was quoted as saying well, he could profess allegiance or whatever you will, or a belief in Mother Nature as a supreme being. That wasn't enough? That's a bit of a fudge factor there. You weren't willing to go along with that?

LAMBERT: No. I don't believe in a supreme being. It just, it goes against what I believe.

O'BRIEN: All right, it goes against what you believe, but it also goes against something you've worked very hard for, which is to become an Eagle Scout. This is a bit of a quandary for you. Did you debate it long and hard or was it a straightforward decision?

LAMBERT: I've debated it for quite some years now and I mean I've looked at all the different points of the Scout oath and the law and the declaration of religious principle and, you know, most of the time it does say you have to believe in God. But it also says to respect other people's opinions.

O'BRIEN: And it also says that you should be trustworthy and honest, of course, as well. So I guess that is the catch-22, isn't it?

LAMBERT: Yes. I won't lie about what I believe.

O'BRIEN: All right, let me read a statement that the Boy Scouts put out and then I want to ask you about your feelings about this organization which you've devoted 10 years of your 19 year life to, more than half your life. Let's read the statement.

"All leaders in the Boy Scouts of America are required to observe the Scout oath, which includes an obligation to do one's duty to God and the Scout law, which includes an obligation to be reverent toward God and a declaration of religious principle. The BSA does not define God or the practice of religion. We regret that Mr. Lambert feels his beliefs must be compromised. That is never requested or desired by the BSA. It would be a disservice to the millions of Scouts and their families to allow individuals to selectively obey or ignore elements of Scout oath and law, statements that define the principles and values of Scouting."

That last point, what about that last point? Do you, would you suggest that the Boy Scouts should either make an exception or perhaps change the rules?

LAMBERT: I think they should have it open for every Scout, for anybody to be in Scouts. And, you know, they say, you know, selectively choose which rules you want to go by in the Scout oath, I love in the part in the Scout oath where it says that you're supposed to be physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. I don't see us kicking people out of Boy Scouts for not, you know, exercising regularly. It does say that in the Scout oath.

O'BRIEN: So you think they're being selective on who they're picking on, if you will?

LAMBERT: They are being very selective.

O'BRIEN: And the other group, which, of course, has gotten a lot of attention is homosexual Boy Scouts. What does that tell you about this organization?

LAMBERT: It's in the past. It has time honored principles and most of them are great. It's just got this one principle, I mean our country is based on religious freedom and they're not upholding that principle.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this, as you look back on it now and as you face the possibility of having to remove that uniform, quite literally, do you feel it was all a waste of your time?

LAMBERT: No. Boy Scouts is, has taught me to, you know, stand up for what I believe in and do what I'm doing now. It's gave me great leadership experience and memories that I'll never forget. It's, I think it's the best organization in this world. I really do.

O'BRIEN: Darrell, how do your parents feel about all this?

LAMBERT: They, I mean they're hurt that Boy Scouts would do this. They don't agree with their decision and they back me a hundred percent.

O'BRIEN: And so they don't quibble with your views? I mean you share their views, they share yours?

LAMBERT: My mom believes in God, not necessarily organized religion, but she respects my views. So...

O'BRIEN: All right, a final point. Is it going to be a hard day when you take off that uniform and all those merit badges, some 37 of them that you earned?

LAMBERT: It will. It'll be a hard day.

O'BRIEN: Darrell Lambert from Seattle, the atheist Boy Scout soon to be just an atheist from Seattle.

Thank you very much.

I think we all learned a little lesson in leadership right then and there.

We appreciate it.

LAMBERT: Thanks for it.

O'BRIEN: Our pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 2, 2002 - 08:47   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And now the story of the atheist Eagle Scout. Nineteen-year-old Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges. He has achieved the highest Boy Scout rank, Eagle Scout, and he's on the verge of being kicked out. The Boy Scout oath includes a vow to do my duty to God. There you see the key point right there on the screen. And Darrell says he's not a believer.
Darrell joins us from Seattle. We asked the Boy Scouts to send a representative. They declined. We'll read a statement from them in just a little bit.

Darrell, good to have you with us.

DARRELL LAMBERT, ATHEIST BOY SCOUT: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: All right, when did this sort of all come to a head? Did they ask you point blank about your beliefs at some point in the process of becoming an Eagle Scout?

LAMBERT: No, I said them, it was, I elected to say them after some comments were said about atheists cannot be good citizens and that they, you know, a person asks, you know, kids during Scoutmaster conferences if they believe in God and if they don't he will, you know, not pass them and boot them out.

O'BRIEN: So you were asked a point blank question, do you believe in God? And your response was what?

LAMBERT: No, I don't believe in God.

O'BRIEN: OK. And what was their response after that? Were they sort of shocked? Did they tell you well, do you want to reconsider? How did it go from there?

LAMBERT: Well, I said if -- they told me that if those were my beliefs, then I'm no longer welcome in Scouting. And they have given me more, you know, time to reconsider and I still have that time, I guess. They gave me even more time yesterday. So I'm not sure when they're going to figure out that my beliefs are not going to change.

O'BRIEN: So you're not changing your beliefs. Now, one of the Scout leaders there was quoted as saying well, he could profess allegiance or whatever you will, or a belief in Mother Nature as a supreme being. That wasn't enough? That's a bit of a fudge factor there. You weren't willing to go along with that?

LAMBERT: No. I don't believe in a supreme being. It just, it goes against what I believe.

O'BRIEN: All right, it goes against what you believe, but it also goes against something you've worked very hard for, which is to become an Eagle Scout. This is a bit of a quandary for you. Did you debate it long and hard or was it a straightforward decision?

LAMBERT: I've debated it for quite some years now and I mean I've looked at all the different points of the Scout oath and the law and the declaration of religious principle and, you know, most of the time it does say you have to believe in God. But it also says to respect other people's opinions.

O'BRIEN: And it also says that you should be trustworthy and honest, of course, as well. So I guess that is the catch-22, isn't it?

LAMBERT: Yes. I won't lie about what I believe.

O'BRIEN: All right, let me read a statement that the Boy Scouts put out and then I want to ask you about your feelings about this organization which you've devoted 10 years of your 19 year life to, more than half your life. Let's read the statement.

"All leaders in the Boy Scouts of America are required to observe the Scout oath, which includes an obligation to do one's duty to God and the Scout law, which includes an obligation to be reverent toward God and a declaration of religious principle. The BSA does not define God or the practice of religion. We regret that Mr. Lambert feels his beliefs must be compromised. That is never requested or desired by the BSA. It would be a disservice to the millions of Scouts and their families to allow individuals to selectively obey or ignore elements of Scout oath and law, statements that define the principles and values of Scouting."

That last point, what about that last point? Do you, would you suggest that the Boy Scouts should either make an exception or perhaps change the rules?

LAMBERT: I think they should have it open for every Scout, for anybody to be in Scouts. And, you know, they say, you know, selectively choose which rules you want to go by in the Scout oath, I love in the part in the Scout oath where it says that you're supposed to be physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. I don't see us kicking people out of Boy Scouts for not, you know, exercising regularly. It does say that in the Scout oath.

O'BRIEN: So you think they're being selective on who they're picking on, if you will?

LAMBERT: They are being very selective.

O'BRIEN: And the other group, which, of course, has gotten a lot of attention is homosexual Boy Scouts. What does that tell you about this organization?

LAMBERT: It's in the past. It has time honored principles and most of them are great. It's just got this one principle, I mean our country is based on religious freedom and they're not upholding that principle.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this, as you look back on it now and as you face the possibility of having to remove that uniform, quite literally, do you feel it was all a waste of your time?

LAMBERT: No. Boy Scouts is, has taught me to, you know, stand up for what I believe in and do what I'm doing now. It's gave me great leadership experience and memories that I'll never forget. It's, I think it's the best organization in this world. I really do.

O'BRIEN: Darrell, how do your parents feel about all this?

LAMBERT: They, I mean they're hurt that Boy Scouts would do this. They don't agree with their decision and they back me a hundred percent.

O'BRIEN: And so they don't quibble with your views? I mean you share their views, they share yours?

LAMBERT: My mom believes in God, not necessarily organized religion, but she respects my views. So...

O'BRIEN: All right, a final point. Is it going to be a hard day when you take off that uniform and all those merit badges, some 37 of them that you earned?

LAMBERT: It will. It'll be a hard day.

O'BRIEN: Darrell Lambert from Seattle, the atheist Boy Scout soon to be just an atheist from Seattle.

Thank you very much.

I think we all learned a little lesson in leadership right then and there.

We appreciate it.

LAMBERT: Thanks for it.

O'BRIEN: Our pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com