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Look at Prosecution's Top 10 List in Ryder Trial

Aired November 05, 2002 - 10:26   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now a very different view of reality TV. It centers around a courtroom drama and one of the biggest names in Hollywood, Winona Ryder. The actress' fate is now in the hands of a Beverly Hills jury. She is accused of stealing more than $5,500 worth of merchandise from a Saks Fifth Avenue store.
Ryder says she's innocent. The prosecution lawyers disagree, and they came up -- I mean, this is no joke -- they came up with a top 10 list that they included in their closing arguments.

Harvey Levin, executive producer of "Celebrity Justice," joins us now with more on the case.

Harvey, good morning.

HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Hey, Daryn. You've got to love that.

KAGAN: This is scripted for your show, can I just say?

LEVIN: I mean, you know, it's also really smart if you think about it. I mean, this is not a murder case. And I think if the prosecution tried to present this as this incredibly serious, violent crime, the jury is not going to buy that.

I think they presented it for what it is. They kind of were sarcastic about it all, but there was an underlying seriousness to it. And I thought it was really a clever Beverly Hills kind of legal ploy.

KAGAN: Like so L.A. OK, let's put the top 10 list up for our viewers...

LEVIN: OK.

KAGAN: ... who were not in the courtroom yesterday. No. 10, "There's a higher standard of proof for celebrities." No. 9...

LEVIN: What they're trying...

KAGAN: Go ahead.

LEVIN: Just so you know, what they're trying to do here is poke holes in all of the defense arguments. These are things that the defense raised that the prosecution is trying to pooh-pooh. And they say, no way.

KAGAN: "Pooh-pooh," is that a legal term? LEVIN: That is Latin, actually, Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, I believe so. OK, No. 9, "Two wrongs make a right." What are the two wrongs?

LEVIN: Well, they're talking about the videotape. That the police said that there was a videotape showing Winona Ryder cutting the tags off. Just because the prosecutors and the police erred on that doesn't mean it justifies any shoplifting. The prosecution is saying, there are two separate issues. If she shoplifted, she should be found guilty.

KAGAN: No. 8, "If you sell $200 hair bows, you deserve to get ripped off."

LEVIN: You've got to love that. That's the funniest one. That's like, you know, the old line about Rodeo Drive and Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills that they're so overpriced, they deserve to be stolen from. And they're saying that's just a ridiculous argument. I think it's pretty funny.

KAGAN: No. 7 goes to a key part of the defense, and that is, "If it's not in the first report, it didn't happen."

LEVIN: Yes, that's a serious one. And what they're really saying is, look, you know what? The -- you know, people make mistakes. People don't put every single memory in the first account, but they remember things afterwards. And they're just saying, look, you can't suddenly play "Alice in Wonderland" and say that just because a security guard forgot one detail that suddenly none of this happened. It did happen, they say.

KAGAN: OK, let's move through a few of these. No. 6, "Only defense attorneys and celebrities drive nice cars." No. 5, "The D.A." -- the district attorney -- "must call every single person working at Saks Fifth Avenue." No. 4, "It's not stealing if you pay for some items.

LEVIN: That's a funny one, because that actually goes to the heart of this case. The defense is saying, hey, look, she paid for $2,000 worth of items. And the prosecution is saying, well, she paid for 2,000 and she stole 5,000. So, they're trying to say one doesn't negate the other.

KAGAN: And No. 3, also part of the defense, "Crime is OK if your director tells you to do it." The alibi that she was actually researching a role where the character is supposed to shoplift.

LEVIN: That came out with the security guards in the -- right outside the door of Saks, so the prosecution says.

KAGAN: No. 2, "If there's no video, then there's no crime," meaning that the security video from the store didn't really show her stealing exactly like perhaps the prosecution would like.

LEVIN: It didn't show her cutting the tags. KAGAN: Right.

LEVIN: The prosecution is saying, they saw her bag growing each time she went in the dressing room.

KAGAN: And No. 1 -- the No. 1 reason, "Only poor people steal," meaning if she's this rich actress, why in the world would she steal in the first place?

LEVIN: You know, you seem to have a future in late-night television. You did that pretty well.

KAGAN: Well, this morning thing isn't working out so well, so...

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey!

KAGAN: Hey, OK, I'm not leaving, Leon. He gets very sensitive about that.

But anyhow, it's in the hands of the jury. Do we expect this one to come back quickly, Harvey?

LEVIN: Well, you know, the cases are pretty clear on both sides, and I think either these jurors are going to buy the defense that she was set up, or they're not. It seems very black and white to me. Of course, you could end up with a hung jury.

And what I just can't wait for, I can't wait to talk with one juror in particular. We're not allowed to mention names, but as you know, there is somebody on this jury who worked with her before three times. And...

KAGAN: Would that be the Hollywood executive?

LEVIN: Yes, I'm not allowed...

KAGAN: I can say it.

LEVIN: Oh, you know, you're making me nervous. I can't talk about it.

KAGAN: OK.

LEVIN: But there is somebody I really want to talk to, to find out his experience on this jury. This is just an unbelievable Hollywood trial.

KAGAN: Something tells me he will be a special guest on "Celebrity Justice" when he...

(CROSSTALK)

LEVIN: Something tells me, too, Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. Harvey Levin, thanks so much. We'll be watching for the verdict. LEVIN: My pleasure.

KAGAN: Appreciate it.

LEVIN: See you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired November 5, 2002 - 10:26   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now a very different view of reality TV. It centers around a courtroom drama and one of the biggest names in Hollywood, Winona Ryder. The actress' fate is now in the hands of a Beverly Hills jury. She is accused of stealing more than $5,500 worth of merchandise from a Saks Fifth Avenue store.
Ryder says she's innocent. The prosecution lawyers disagree, and they came up -- I mean, this is no joke -- they came up with a top 10 list that they included in their closing arguments.

Harvey Levin, executive producer of "Celebrity Justice," joins us now with more on the case.

Harvey, good morning.

HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Hey, Daryn. You've got to love that.

KAGAN: This is scripted for your show, can I just say?

LEVIN: I mean, you know, it's also really smart if you think about it. I mean, this is not a murder case. And I think if the prosecution tried to present this as this incredibly serious, violent crime, the jury is not going to buy that.

I think they presented it for what it is. They kind of were sarcastic about it all, but there was an underlying seriousness to it. And I thought it was really a clever Beverly Hills kind of legal ploy.

KAGAN: Like so L.A. OK, let's put the top 10 list up for our viewers...

LEVIN: OK.

KAGAN: ... who were not in the courtroom yesterday. No. 10, "There's a higher standard of proof for celebrities." No. 9...

LEVIN: What they're trying...

KAGAN: Go ahead.

LEVIN: Just so you know, what they're trying to do here is poke holes in all of the defense arguments. These are things that the defense raised that the prosecution is trying to pooh-pooh. And they say, no way.

KAGAN: "Pooh-pooh," is that a legal term? LEVIN: That is Latin, actually, Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, I believe so. OK, No. 9, "Two wrongs make a right." What are the two wrongs?

LEVIN: Well, they're talking about the videotape. That the police said that there was a videotape showing Winona Ryder cutting the tags off. Just because the prosecutors and the police erred on that doesn't mean it justifies any shoplifting. The prosecution is saying, there are two separate issues. If she shoplifted, she should be found guilty.

KAGAN: No. 8, "If you sell $200 hair bows, you deserve to get ripped off."

LEVIN: You've got to love that. That's the funniest one. That's like, you know, the old line about Rodeo Drive and Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills that they're so overpriced, they deserve to be stolen from. And they're saying that's just a ridiculous argument. I think it's pretty funny.

KAGAN: No. 7 goes to a key part of the defense, and that is, "If it's not in the first report, it didn't happen."

LEVIN: Yes, that's a serious one. And what they're really saying is, look, you know what? The -- you know, people make mistakes. People don't put every single memory in the first account, but they remember things afterwards. And they're just saying, look, you can't suddenly play "Alice in Wonderland" and say that just because a security guard forgot one detail that suddenly none of this happened. It did happen, they say.

KAGAN: OK, let's move through a few of these. No. 6, "Only defense attorneys and celebrities drive nice cars." No. 5, "The D.A." -- the district attorney -- "must call every single person working at Saks Fifth Avenue." No. 4, "It's not stealing if you pay for some items.

LEVIN: That's a funny one, because that actually goes to the heart of this case. The defense is saying, hey, look, she paid for $2,000 worth of items. And the prosecution is saying, well, she paid for 2,000 and she stole 5,000. So, they're trying to say one doesn't negate the other.

KAGAN: And No. 3, also part of the defense, "Crime is OK if your director tells you to do it." The alibi that she was actually researching a role where the character is supposed to shoplift.

LEVIN: That came out with the security guards in the -- right outside the door of Saks, so the prosecution says.

KAGAN: No. 2, "If there's no video, then there's no crime," meaning that the security video from the store didn't really show her stealing exactly like perhaps the prosecution would like.

LEVIN: It didn't show her cutting the tags. KAGAN: Right.

LEVIN: The prosecution is saying, they saw her bag growing each time she went in the dressing room.

KAGAN: And No. 1 -- the No. 1 reason, "Only poor people steal," meaning if she's this rich actress, why in the world would she steal in the first place?

LEVIN: You know, you seem to have a future in late-night television. You did that pretty well.

KAGAN: Well, this morning thing isn't working out so well, so...

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey!

KAGAN: Hey, OK, I'm not leaving, Leon. He gets very sensitive about that.

But anyhow, it's in the hands of the jury. Do we expect this one to come back quickly, Harvey?

LEVIN: Well, you know, the cases are pretty clear on both sides, and I think either these jurors are going to buy the defense that she was set up, or they're not. It seems very black and white to me. Of course, you could end up with a hung jury.

And what I just can't wait for, I can't wait to talk with one juror in particular. We're not allowed to mention names, but as you know, there is somebody on this jury who worked with her before three times. And...

KAGAN: Would that be the Hollywood executive?

LEVIN: Yes, I'm not allowed...

KAGAN: I can say it.

LEVIN: Oh, you know, you're making me nervous. I can't talk about it.

KAGAN: OK.

LEVIN: But there is somebody I really want to talk to, to find out his experience on this jury. This is just an unbelievable Hollywood trial.

KAGAN: Something tells me he will be a special guest on "Celebrity Justice" when he...

(CROSSTALK)

LEVIN: Something tells me, too, Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. Harvey Levin, thanks so much. We'll be watching for the verdict. LEVIN: My pleasure.

KAGAN: Appreciate it.

LEVIN: See you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.