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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
VNS Won't Provide Election Results
Aired November 05, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Shocking revelations about Princess Diana from the butler she trusted. It's Tuesday, November 05, 2002, Election Day. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The polls haven't even closed yet, but that's not stopping the Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura from talking about the real losers this year, and it's not Democrats or Republicans; in a moment fighting words from the former wrestler and soon to be former governor.
But first, the battle for the U.S. Senate, Democrats currently control the Senate by the narrowest of margins, one vote, but Republicans are hoping to change that. Pre-election polls indicated several Senate races across the country were simply too close to call. CNN correspondents are standing by in South Dakota, New Hampshire, North Carolina and Minnesota. That's just to start with. Let's begin with South Dakota. That's where Jonathan Karl is standing by -- Jon.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, near an army of volunteers has targeted a tiny electorate of fewer than a half a million registered voters and that has meant today crowded polling places across the state and indications of record high turnout for South Dakota.
Now, Tom Daschle's name is not on the ballot here in South Dakota, but he may have more at stake than virtually anybody else. His man is Democratic incumbent Tim Johnson, who just this morning was still reminding voters that he's the guy who says that he will preserve South Dakota's clout in the U.S. Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM JOHNSON (D), S.D. SENATE CANDIDATE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: But Republican John Thune has got a big supporter in President George Bush and he's saying that George Bush is the person who will support John Thune in South Dakota. That's a powerful argument here because South Dakota is a place where George Bush is especially popular. He's got a 73 percent approval rating here in this state according to the latest CNN/USA Today Gallup Poll, and that's the latest here from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bill Delaney in New Hampshire where turnout is high, in the 60 percent range, and where margins are expected to be razor thin in this Senate race between Republican Congressman John Sununu and Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen. Independent voters here in New Hampshire key. There are more than a third of voters now in New Hampshire and how they cut, who they vote for, will make the difference here. There's also a wildcard, outgoing Republican Senator Bob Smith who lost the primary to Congressman Sununu.
But now disgruntled Republicans say they'll write his name in, and if two percent of they do as they predict, that could be more than enough to drain away from Congressman Republican Sununu enough votes to throw this election and the Republican seat to the Democrat Governor Shaheen, and that's the latest from here in New Hampshire.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve in Salisbury, North Carolina. What started out as a lopsided Senate race here now appears to be pretty well balanced. Elizabeth Dole, a political folk hero here for her positions in Republican administrations and her time as head of the American Red Cross, started out looking invincible, but Erskine Bowles, the former chief of staff for President Clinton, has made great headway.
Analysts say if he is going to power past Mrs. Dole, it is going to be because of a strong African-American vote, and Democratic leaders tell me tonight that they are hearing anecdotally that African-American turnout across the state is very heavy this evening. They say it is at presidential levels. That, of course, appears to be good news for Mr. Bowles but a different story from the Republicans. They say they are hearing of heavy voting in Republican precincts all across North Carolina. Republican leaders saying to me that they are still confident there will be a Dole victory here tonight, and that's the latest from North Carolina.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Anderson Cooper in St. Paul, Minnesota at what will be Mondale Headquarters tonight where they hope there will be a celebration though it is far too close to call at this time. Polls are open for another four hours here in Minnesota and the candidates are neck-and-neck, simply too close to call. Both candidates this morning not taking any chances, Walter Mondale voting right there with his wife, later on went to a union hall urging his supporters to get out the vote.
Norm Coleman working all night long, driving to several different cities in Minnesota, this morning cast his vote with his wife here in St. Paul. He seemed relaxed, confident; both men hoping tonight will be their night. As I said, polls close in about four hours and then it is anybody's call. It is a hand count tonight because of the supplemental ballots. It is likely that this will go very late tonight and it will be very exciting, and that's the latest from Minnesota.
BLITZER: Anderson Cooper and all of our correspondents thanks very much. And earlier, just a little while ago, I spoke about the Minnesota race and other political matters with the always outspoken Governor Jesse Ventura.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): Governor Ventura, thanks as usual for joining us. Tell us how it's looking out in Minnesota today. Who's going to win that big Senate race?
GOV. JESSE VENTURA (I), MINNESOTA: Well, I can't make that prediction, Wolf, but I can tell you that the media did the best job they could and the two, the Democratic and Republican Parties did the best job they could on eliminating the third party, and the third party being involved in the debate. I'm outraged, Wolf, over the fact that a seated governor's party was not included in the final debate before an election.
I mean Vice President Mondale came in and set the terms. He said only he and Coleman would debate. He said what time it would happen and where it would take place and that any other candidates were left out in the cold. That's outrageous to me. That isn't what American politics should be about and it certainly shouldn't be what freedom is about.
BLITZER (on camera): The argument I guess they made, both of the other political parties, was that Jim Moore (ph) the third party candidate, your candidate, was very low in the polls and he really was not a factor.
VENTURA: Oh, really well they said that four years ago when I ran too, Wolf. Not one poll had me leading. Why do we even allow polls? I think polls should be banished. They influence elections. They're simply to give the media stories and, as I said, they influence elections and they influence who's allowed to participate in elections.
The same thing happened in 1996. You had an Independent candidate that got 20 percent of the vote in the previous election and then was not allowed to debate in 1996. It's a disgrace to America, Wolf, what the media is holding up. I guess what it comes down to, if you contribute $12 million a piece, as the Democrats and Republicans did to the media coffers, then the media will let you be in their debates.
BLITZER: Is it as simple as that or, do you believe that it was, you know, with 48 hours to go or even 24 hours to go, they just wanted to get this one debate between the two leading candidates?
VENTURA: Well, the point being is they always raise the bar, Wolf. First they tell us we have to achieve major party status. In my opinion, any candidate that belongs to a party that has received major party status should be allowed to debate regardless of what these phony polls say because, as I said, there wasn't one poll that had me winning. Polls are fraudulent, nothing more than you used to write media stories on.
Then what happens is once you achieve major party status, then they up the bar. Then they said well he had to be polling three percent. Well, he achieved three percent. Then they said well he had to do it two times in a row. So, it really doesn't matter, Wolf, what level we achieve. We are going to be cut out by the media and the two party system. Remember our system gives Americans one more choice than what the Iraqis get with Saddam Hussein.
BLITZER: Is that why you asked Dean Barkley, your old friend, to be the interim Senator?
VENTURA: No, that's not why. I asked him because who would I ask if not someone I can trust, someone who I understand, someone I know very well? Would Republicans and Democrats ask me to pick one of theirs? That's ridiculous. I picked someone who I...
BLITZER: I was going to say how long do you think he will actually serve in the Senate? There seems to be some dispute when his term is over, either when the new Senate is convened in January or November 19th when the election is certified.
VENTURA: Well, again those are rules that will have to be sorted out and, you know, Dean Barkley is prepared to serve until they tell him that he no longer is the U.S. Senator, and whoever wins the election will take over. But, in the interim he will go out there. They'll go back in session the 12th and he will be one of two votes along with Senator Mark Dayton from Minnesota.
BLITZER: Who do you like better as far as Mondale and Coleman are concerned?
VENTURA: I don't like either of them equally. I'm anti the two party system. I'm a third party person. I don't vote for Democrats or Republicans. If I go in and there's only a Democrat or Republican on the ballot for that particular spot, I don't vote for that spot because I refuse to vote for Democrats and Republicans.
I believe it is these parties that are ultimately hurting America and they're choking off. And I'll give you an example, Wolf, 60 percent of Minnesotans almost say they don't belong to either of the two parties. They're made to pick between these two parties and they get no help whatsoever from the media in having the opportunity to vote for a third party.
BLITZER: And before I let you go, governor, I just want to make sure that our viewers are not confused. You're not comparing our political system here in the United States to that of Saddam Hussein's in Iraq, are you?
VENTURA: No, I'm not comparing it. I'm only saying you get one more choice. You know the way our system is set up with the Democrats and Republicans in charge, with them taking their soft dirty money, with them setting up the rules, you get one more choice than Russia used to have, one more choice than Cuba has if they elections, one more choice than Iraq. Here, they give you choice, Republican or Democrat, and the third party is out in the wind and they won't allow it to grow. They won't allow it to flourish.
BLITZER: Given the passion, the fire in your voice, I sense that we haven't heard the last of Jesse Ventura, the politician that some day you'll be coming back into the political arena.
VENTURA: No, I doubt that, Wolf. You never say never but I've had my fill of it. I'm moving on and going to the private sector.
BLITZER: And how are you feeling, governor? VENTURA: I'm feeling overjoyed about it. I can't wait. I'm 60 days in a wakeup.
BLITZER: All right, Governor Jesse Ventura, good luck to you. Good luck to everyone in Minnesota, the whole nation, indeed a lot of people around the world are going to be focusing in on your state today.
VENTURA: Thank you, Wolf, always a pleasure.
BLITZER: Thank you, and here's your chance to weigh in on the story. Our web question of the day is this: How important are these elections to you? We'll have the results later in this program. Vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments, your questions. We'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
Turning now to the other top story of the day, the smallpox virus in the wrong hands, secret stocks of the deadly virus in four nations, an intelligence debrief when we return. Also, Winona watch in Beverly Hills, the jury is still out but a verdict is expected at any time now.
And, a Diana tell-all, her former butler's reported statement to police on intimate details of a royal private life, all that plus more election coverage. It's all coming up, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We'll have much more coverage of the election coming up this hour, but we turn now to some chilling findings from a U.S. intelligence review which says four nations, including Iraq and North Korea, secretly possess the deadly smallpox virus. Let's go straight to CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. He has details -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf last year the Bush administration asked U.S. intelligence to report to it on who might have secret stocks of the smallpox virus since, although the disease was eradicated years ago, it could be used as a biological weapon. Smallpox kills roughly a third of those who get infected with the virus. Through human history, it's estimated to have taken hundred of millions of lives.
The intelligence report came back last spring and it said four nations are believed to have secret stocks of smallpox, two nations President Bush calls part of the "axis of evil," Iraq, North Korea, plus Russia and a surprise here, France. The secret stocks are in addition to publicly known samples of the smallpox virus, which are held at two labs, one in the United States and one in Russia.
The report also noted U.S. officials say that evidence captured in Afghanistan and elsewhere suggests Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda put some effort, money, and personnel into trying to acquire a smallpox virus that could be used as a weapon but the report also says there's no indication al Qaeda succeeded or that it had the wherewithal to use smallpox as a weapon.
Still, the report has been fueling a debate within the Bush administration over how many Americans should be vaccinated and how soon. Vice President Cheney reportedly feels strongly that a major vaccination program should be initiated very soon. Others, like HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, argue for waiting for better quality vaccine stocks and for a more limited program to start in about two years. You can find experts on both side of that debate, Wolf, in this town.
BLITZER: That's not that surprising that you could find experts on all sides of all debates. David Ensor thanks for that important information. Millions of us, of course, received routine smallpox vaccinations as children, though the immunizations were halted decades ago as the disease was wiped out around the world. A resumption of mass immunizations could thwart a bioterror attack but the side effects can be serious and sometimes indeed fatal. I recently spoke with Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIR. CDC: We expect maybe five to ten very serious complications per million people vaccinated, but it depends in part on how good we are at screening out the people at high risk. In an emergency, the overriding goal is to get vaccine to the exposed people, so we will have some complications.
BLITZER: And, in general, who are the people at highest risk?
GERBERDING: The people who are immuno-suppressed, little children, and people with underlying diseases are the ones that are most likely to have the serious complications. But, the people who are immunized in their youth probably have a lower risk, so they may have fewer complications overall.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We want to immediately go to CNN's Jeff Greenfield at CNN Headquarters in Atlanta. He's got some breaking election news. Jeff, tell us what you have.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, even though the polls are still open everywhere in the United States, we have some rather dramatic news to report about how these votes will be projected, or particularly how the exit polls will or won't be. As you know, traditionally over the last several years when polls close, the networks project the winner if they can off exit polls. You know, we ask voters as they're leaving the polling booth what they're doing.
Well, earlier this afternoon, actually a few minutes ago, Voter News Service, that's the consortium of news organizations, networks, and a couple of news gathering groups, said, told everyone they are not satisfied with the accuracy of the exit poll analysis and will not be in a position to be providing exit polls for the national voter trends or for state races. Let me say that again, the Voter News Service has said because of a glitch in the analysis part of the voting of the polling data, they are not satisfied with the accuracy of the analysis, are not in a position to provide information, exit poll information nationally or about state races.
What this means is that when the polls close, instead of seeing what you the viewers are used to seeing, instant projections, we at CNN will wait for votes to come in. We will be using sample precincts from VNS, vote tabulations from AP, and CNN's own real vote system that we established some time ago. You've been hearing about it for days in ten states where there are key races.
So, it means, Wolf that while we will be projecting races once we have analyzed votes, there will be from us no exit poll projections tonight.
BLITZER: Jeff, this is shocking news, obviously, for those of us who have grown up with these exit polls over the years. Is this the result, though, of being extra cautious in the aftermath of the Florida debacle?
GREENFIELD: It's more than that. We at CNN were being extra cautious when we established this real vote system, where we will be sending people, our own people into hundreds of precincts to gather thousands of votes in sample precincts and analyze votes, not polling data, votes.
But this is something else. This is Voter News Service, the organization that all the networks use to gather exit polls and analyze them saying, you know what, we collected the polling data OK, but when we put it through the computer, we just don't have confidence in its accuracy and VNS is saying, we're not providing as of this moment, we're not in the position to provide not only national data, you know, how did women vote, how did young people vote, how did blue collar vote, but in states. They will not be in a position to produce reliable exit poll data.
So, in other words, half hour after the polls close or 15 minutes or an hour, once VNS has enough real votes, actual votes, or once CNN has our own vote data, we may be in a position to project or, Wolf, as some people have wished that they could do, go back to the past, we may be waiting around until enough real votes are tabulated that we can saw who won and who lost.
BLITZER: We may have to wait and do it as you say, Jeff, the old-fashioned way. We'll have to wait for real votes to be counted instead of these projections. This is a huge story. We'll continue to monitor it and I know you'll be with us throughout the night. Jeff Greenfield with very important news for all of us who have been watching these elections, Jeff thanks very much.
Let's go on to some other important news that we're monitoring right now as well. New details on that remote-controlled missile strike in Yemen. Once again here's CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice over): Official public confirmation that the U.S. made the attack in Yemen killing six al Qaeda members came during a CNN interview with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's a very successful, tactical operation.
ENSOR: And an operation that may be used again.
WOLFOWITZ: We've just got to keep the pressure on everywhere we're able to and we've got to deny the sanctuaries everywhere we're able to, and we've got to put pressure on every government that is giving these people support to get out of that business.
ENSOR: The attack was made using Hellfire missiles fired from a pilotless drone aircraft controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency. Sources say the CIA drone followed the car for over an hour before firing. It was the first time the tactic has been used by the U.S. outside of Afghanistan.
Among the six killed was Abu Ali Al-Harithi, also known as Kayeed Sinan (ph) Al-Harithi, who was once a senior bodyguard for Osama bin Laden, seen in this exclusive CNN video. Officials say he led al Qaeda in Yemen, was among the top 15 leaders worldwide, and was suspected of involvement in the attack in 2000 on the USS Cole in Yemen. Until Wolfowitz spoke, American officials had refused to confirm it was a U.S. attack, one reason concern about the impact on Arab and Yemeni public opinion.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE): Any Yemeni citizen, regardless of whether he is thought to be involved or not, should be prosecuted, tied by the Yemeni government itself, by the people here in Yemen. So, having the death sentence applied by a foreign state wouldn't have the public happy at all.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And hunt them down.
ENSOR: But, as President Bush himself made clear only Monday, the administration sees this incident as part of a war on terror, not a legal proceeding. It hopes the attack may cause other al Qaeda leaders to feel unsafe and keep them on the run. David Ensor CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And there are dramatic developments in the sniper story we've been following over the past many weeks. Federal prosecutors have just two days to indict the sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad. He was back in court today for a detention hearing and afterward we heard from his attorney. CNN's Patty Davis is just outside the courthouse. She's joining us now live -- Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf that was Muhammad's third time in court since he was arrested a week and a half ago. Today, a federal magistrate ordered him detained because of his alleged connection to the sniper killings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS (voice over): Sniper suspect John Muhammad looked somber and unemotional in his maroon prison jumpsuit staring straight ahead as a federal magistrate ruled he should be kept behind bars until he goes to trial. Magistrate Jillen Shultz (ph) agreed with federal prosecutors that there is "clear and convincing evidence that Muhammad is both a danger to the community and a flight risk."
Among charges in a 20-count federal criminal complaint brought last week, Extortion, authorities say he left notes at murder scenes demanding $10 million to stop the killings. Public defender James Wyda calls that a stretch, describing the government's charge this way.
JAMES WYDA, PUBLIC DEFENDER: You know it is a bizarre, crackpot scheme, one that was unlikely to be accomplished in light of the chronology, one that was frankly impossible to accomplish as a matter of fact.
DAVIS: In court, Wyda called Muhammad a man who's never been convicted of a crime who served his country and loves his children. Muhammad has been charged with Murder in Maryland and Virginia for his alleged involvement in the sniper killing spree. He's also been charged with two other homicides in Alabama and Louisiana. His alleged accomplice, John Malvo, was ordered detained Monday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS (on camera): The federal magistrate set a preliminary hearing for Muhammad for this Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Patty Davis just outside the courthouse thanks very much. Meanwhile, Maryland and Virginia prosecutors are working with the Justice Department to decide who gets to try the sniper suspects first, and we're told a decision could come Thursday. Our Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena is following that part of the story -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well that's right, Wolf, but if you'll allow me, I'd like to start with telling you that police in Tucson, Arizona are taking another look at a homicide that occurred there back in March. According to the sniper task force here in Washington, the two sniper suspects were in Tucson at that time visiting Muhammad's sister. Now, police along with the FBI and the ATF are reexamining evidence from a March 19th shooting that occurred at a golf course in Tucson, the victim a 60-year-old male. The weapon that was used in that shooting was a rifle.
Now, Wolf, I also wanted to add a bit to what Patty just reported. The preliminary hearing that was set for Friday for Muhammad is very unlikely. According to sources, the government will seek an indictment against Muhammad before then and we're likely to hear that by Thursday because grand juries don't meet on Friday.
We're also expecting a decision out of the Justice Department this week regarding which jurisdiction will get to take the case to court first. Attorney General John Ashcroft is reviewing his options. He did meet today with FBI Director Robert Mueller, Justice Department lawyers to go over evidence that has been gathered so far. Sources say that it is likely that a county in Virginia will go first because both Muhammad and Malvo would face the death penalty there. As you know, Wolf, Virginia law does permit the execution of juveniles, back to you.
BLITZER: All right, 48 hours we'll soon find out who gets to go first. Kelli Arena thanks very much for that report. That's to Patty Davis as well.
When we come back, Saks, lies, and videotape, Winona Ryder on trial awaiting a verdict. We'll go live to Beverly Hills for the celebrity shoplifting trial. Will the actress face hard time or get off the hook?
Plus, Mondale and Bush, not the dads, but their political savvy sons, George P. Bush and Bill Mondale. Join us live to talk about the next generation of leaders. And, this is a live look at CNN's Election Headquarters. Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of all the late-breaking election news, and we mean late-breaking news. We'll have it all, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Now, that Britain's Queen Elizabeth has cleared him of theft charges, Paul Burrell is ready to go public. The former butler to Princess Diana will break his silence tomorrow in a newspaper interview. As CNN's Robin Kernoy (ph) reports, stories about the late princess dominate British headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBIN KERNOY (ph), CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her story still sells newspapers five years after her death in a Paris car crash. New allegations about Diana, Princess of Wales, sparked a tabloid war in Britain. Alleged royal secrets said to come from a confidential briefing her former butler, Paul Burrell, had with police mysteriously leaked to some newspapers.
ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL PHOTOGRAPHER: These stories about her going out to see lovers naked beneath her fur coat or going to Paddington Station to try and persuade prostitutes to get off the street, these are shocking and revelatory, but actually they're part of the great image of Saint Diana.
KERNOY (ph): The papers say her former butler, Paul Burrell, is devastated by these sensational new allegations.
PIERS MORGAN, EDITOR, "DAILY MIRROR": Trying to create an impression that he would be prepared to betray Diana and he never would. This is a guy that I think was totally loyal to her when she was alive and will always be totally loyal.
KERNOY (ph): So he's giving an exclusive interview to the "Daily Mirror" about his relationship with Princess Diana and the royal family. It's due in the Wednesday edition. The interview is Paul Burrell's first since all criminal charges against him were shockingly dropped last Friday at London's Old Bailey Court. He had been standing trial for the alleged theft of more than 300 of Diana's personal items after her death. The trial collapsed after the queen revealed to prosecutors that Burrell told her he was taking items for safe keeping.
MORGAN: This is going to be explosive, sensational material because Paul is getting very emotional. He's angry. He's vengeful.
KERNOY (ph): Competing newspapers are speculating that he was paid between four and $800,000.
Robin Kernoy (ph), CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: This time, I'll be speaking with Sir David Frost from London about this and other subjects.
Meanwhile it's Mondale and Bush, Democrat and Republican. Political sons Bill Mondale and George P. Bush weigh in on this year's election. Where's the next generation of leaders heading? We'll ask them. You're watching WOLF BLITZER REPORTS on this Election Day. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're following an important story, the Voter News Service, a consortium that represents the television networks as well as the associated press in exit polls now says they will not, repeat, not be able to provide accurate information on those exit polls, as Jeff Greenfield reported just a little while ago. We're going to have much more from Jeff and Bill Schneider coming up shortly.
But as we've been promising all hour, we have a couple of special guests with us right now and they're named Mondale and Bush. Of course there's a catch. The Mondale we'll be talking to is Walter Mondale's son, Bill. And the George Bush joining us is not the president, but the president's nephew, George P. Bush, who also happens to be the son of the Florida governor, Jeb Bush. As we all now, Jeb Bush is in one of the most closely watched governor's races in the country today.
George, thanks so much for joining us. How's it look for your dad right now?
GEORGE P. BUSH, SON OF FLA. GOV. JEB BUSH: Things are looking good. My father is still continuing to try to encourage voters to hit the polls. But today he's generally upbeat and he's positive about his chances tonight. BLITZER: The last time I spoke to you was a couple years ago at the convention. I know you were planning on going to law school. Is that what you're doing now?
BUSH: Yes, sir. I'm in my third year of law school and getting prepared to take the bar this upcoming summer and chipping in for my father's campaign whenever I have the chance.
BLITZER: It's hard to be in law school and campaigning at the same time as we all know. What is your future looking like, law, politics, a little bit of both?
BUSH: Well, I just follow my grandmother's advice and that is to make a name for yourself outside of politics, you know, pay off a mortgage, pay taxes and do what normal folks do before you even think about going into politics. And so right now I'm focused on graduating from law school and possibly practicing. And we'll see down the road, but I don't know. Right now, I enjoy my role in helping out my uncle and my father.
BLITZER: Well, you should listen to your grandmother, Barbara Bush. She's a very smart woman. She knows what she's talking about. Why are so many young people your age, in their 20s, sort of apathetic when it comes to politics, really don't care, and certainly don't go out and vote in significant numbers?
BUSH: The statistics you would think lead us to believe that younger voters don't go out. But I think that it's right now an incredibly opportunistic time for campaigns on both sides of the aisle to reach out to younger voters. I think today there's a study done that showed that close to 30 million voters aged between 18 and 30 didn't show up to the polls in 2000. That's an incredible -- large number. So what we're trying to do is reach out to younger voters to try to tap that resource.
BLITZER: George P. Bush, I think you got a great future ahead of you and we'll look forward to talking to you many times. Good luck to you, your family, of course, as we watch these poll results unfold in the coming hours, appreciate it very much.
Let's go to St. Paul, Minnesota now. That's the scene of another tight and unexpected Senate race between the Republican Norm Coleman and the Democrat, Walter Mondale. The former senator and vice president entered the contest, as we all know, after the incumbent, Paul Wellstone, suddenly died late last month in a plane crash. Joining me now is Walter Mondale's son, Bill Mondale.
Bill, thanks for joining us. I guess you were just as surprised as all of us to see your dad out there campaigning once again for himself.
BILL MONDALE, SON OF WALTER MONDALE: Well, when the tragedy happened, I think it became pretty clear that in order to unify the state and to move forward, it had to be dad. So I was surprised but not shocked. You know, they asked my mom -- they said, "Well, if you win, you have to move to Washington. You have to leave your grandsons. What's that going be like?" And she said, "I'm a public servant. That's what we do." SO I'm surprised but really proud today.
BLITZER: How's he doing out there? As far as you can tell, this past week has been a rough week, obviously, for him and the rest of your family.
MONDALE: Well, tumultuous, yes, that's an understatement. But let me tell you, this has been just an amazing turnout. And you were talking to George P. Bush by the way, good luck on the bar, George. It was fun for me, too. But the kids today are just -- those crazy college kids, they're out like crazy. Today the voter turnout is amazing. We'll reach higher than the last general election.
And our campaign, the well Wellstone/Mondale campaign is full of kids and they're anything but apathetic. I just drove back from Minneapolis and every single bridge top was filled with kids with signs and it's just amazing. It really -- you know today, when I went to vote, I have never seen so many people in the voting booth and most of them were young Americans, Minnesotans. They're ready to vote and they're excited about this campaign. So I don't see any apathy here in Minnesota.
BLITZER: You like politics, Bill. Is there a future for the next generation of Mondales in politics in Minnesota?
MONDALE: Well, I think there's always a future when you have the conscious to vote. That's for sure. I'm so proud of my brother. He's been involved. My sister, she's more the glamorous type, but any way that I can serve. That was the great thing about this campaign. It was five days long. I walked into the Wellstone campaign and, like my dad did, we just said, "Hey, tell me what I need to do?" That's what happened and it's been really fun. I really loved it.
BLITZER: Bill Mondale, the son of Walter Mondale. Give my best wishes to your entire family. Good luck to you, of course. We'll be watching the outcome in Minnesota. Huge voter turnout relatively speaking in Minnesota today and tonight. Thanks, Bill, for joining us...
MONDALE: Thanks.
BLITZER: ...on CNN, of course. CNN.com, we'll have complete coverage of the election returns. You can click on our election scorecard for customized coverage of the races that interest you the most. That and much more at www.CNN.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We've got a huge story we're following right now. We want to go back to CNN headquarters in Atlanta. That's where Jeff Greenfield is standing by together with Bill Schneider.
Jeff, for our viewers just tuning in right now, tell us what's going on. GREENFIELD: Wolf, a few minutes ago, about a half hour ago, Voter News Service, that's the joint effort of the five networks and Associated Press that collects and analyzes exit poll data said that they would simply lack confidence in the accuracy of their analysis of exit polls and were not in a position to produce national or state exit poll data this evening. What that means is that the traditional way we've seen election nights where as soon as the polls close, the networks project winners based on exit poll data at least as of now will not happen. Instead, we'll go back to a kind of older -- old fashion notion of bringing in votes.
And I don't mean to say old fashion about the person next to me. That is senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, who has spent a lifetime at this.
Bill, quickly, does this mean we will have to wait until every last vote is counted to project winners?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, no, Jeff, in some races where pre-election polls showed one candidate with a big lead and where the exit poll is consistent with that big lead, we may project a winner. In cases where the exit poll is not showing a decisive lead, we're going to be very cautious and we're only going to project outcomes based on real votes. That's the old fashion way.
GREENFIELD: All right, now one thing that is new fashion is that CNN, perhaps anticipating or remembering what happened in 2000, has created real vote. That in 10 states with close races, we have -- there are sample precincts, several hundred of them where we'll be gathering data but not from exit polls, from votes, actual counted votes. And we will be analyzing them as will the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) be analyzing sample precincts and data. So we may actually project but off votes.
SCHNEIDER: Real votes and we have different sources. We have our own sources as well as VNS.
GREENFIELD: Very quickly, what about all those factoids we get on Election Night? Here is how young people voted, how women voted, how labor people voted. Are we going to have them tonight?
SCHNEIDER: We won't have them tonight. We usually can explain what groups supported each candidate and why. We may not be able to do that tonight. But in the future and then in the next few days, we think we'll be able to start explaining what happened.
GREENFIELD: So Wolf, I guess we have a big story even for any poll in America has closed -- to you, sir.
BLITZER: It's a huge story that we'll be watching all night. Jeff Greenfield and Bill Schneider, the two best political analysts in the business by far. They'll be with us, of course, all night here on CNN. Ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't get any better than that.
Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." How important are these elections to you? Log on to CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked -- how important are these elections to you? Seventy-seven percent of you say very important, 11 percent say important, 12 percent say not important. You can find the exact vote tally and continue to vote by the way on my website CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have right now. Join me tomorrow of course 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also weekdays at noon Eastern for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." After the break, Larry King will interview Trent Lott. The Senate minority leader is looking to be the majority leader. We'll see if he will be. In less than 10 minutes, CNN special coverage of "AMERICA VOTES" will continue. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
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Aired November 5, 2002 - 17:00 ET
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Shocking revelations about Princess Diana from the butler she trusted. It's Tuesday, November 05, 2002, Election Day. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The polls haven't even closed yet, but that's not stopping the Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura from talking about the real losers this year, and it's not Democrats or Republicans; in a moment fighting words from the former wrestler and soon to be former governor.
But first, the battle for the U.S. Senate, Democrats currently control the Senate by the narrowest of margins, one vote, but Republicans are hoping to change that. Pre-election polls indicated several Senate races across the country were simply too close to call. CNN correspondents are standing by in South Dakota, New Hampshire, North Carolina and Minnesota. That's just to start with. Let's begin with South Dakota. That's where Jonathan Karl is standing by -- Jon.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, near an army of volunteers has targeted a tiny electorate of fewer than a half a million registered voters and that has meant today crowded polling places across the state and indications of record high turnout for South Dakota.
Now, Tom Daschle's name is not on the ballot here in South Dakota, but he may have more at stake than virtually anybody else. His man is Democratic incumbent Tim Johnson, who just this morning was still reminding voters that he's the guy who says that he will preserve South Dakota's clout in the U.S. Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM JOHNSON (D), S.D. SENATE CANDIDATE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: But Republican John Thune has got a big supporter in President George Bush and he's saying that George Bush is the person who will support John Thune in South Dakota. That's a powerful argument here because South Dakota is a place where George Bush is especially popular. He's got a 73 percent approval rating here in this state according to the latest CNN/USA Today Gallup Poll, and that's the latest here from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bill Delaney in New Hampshire where turnout is high, in the 60 percent range, and where margins are expected to be razor thin in this Senate race between Republican Congressman John Sununu and Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen. Independent voters here in New Hampshire key. There are more than a third of voters now in New Hampshire and how they cut, who they vote for, will make the difference here. There's also a wildcard, outgoing Republican Senator Bob Smith who lost the primary to Congressman Sununu.
But now disgruntled Republicans say they'll write his name in, and if two percent of they do as they predict, that could be more than enough to drain away from Congressman Republican Sununu enough votes to throw this election and the Republican seat to the Democrat Governor Shaheen, and that's the latest from here in New Hampshire.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve in Salisbury, North Carolina. What started out as a lopsided Senate race here now appears to be pretty well balanced. Elizabeth Dole, a political folk hero here for her positions in Republican administrations and her time as head of the American Red Cross, started out looking invincible, but Erskine Bowles, the former chief of staff for President Clinton, has made great headway.
Analysts say if he is going to power past Mrs. Dole, it is going to be because of a strong African-American vote, and Democratic leaders tell me tonight that they are hearing anecdotally that African-American turnout across the state is very heavy this evening. They say it is at presidential levels. That, of course, appears to be good news for Mr. Bowles but a different story from the Republicans. They say they are hearing of heavy voting in Republican precincts all across North Carolina. Republican leaders saying to me that they are still confident there will be a Dole victory here tonight, and that's the latest from North Carolina.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Anderson Cooper in St. Paul, Minnesota at what will be Mondale Headquarters tonight where they hope there will be a celebration though it is far too close to call at this time. Polls are open for another four hours here in Minnesota and the candidates are neck-and-neck, simply too close to call. Both candidates this morning not taking any chances, Walter Mondale voting right there with his wife, later on went to a union hall urging his supporters to get out the vote.
Norm Coleman working all night long, driving to several different cities in Minnesota, this morning cast his vote with his wife here in St. Paul. He seemed relaxed, confident; both men hoping tonight will be their night. As I said, polls close in about four hours and then it is anybody's call. It is a hand count tonight because of the supplemental ballots. It is likely that this will go very late tonight and it will be very exciting, and that's the latest from Minnesota.
BLITZER: Anderson Cooper and all of our correspondents thanks very much. And earlier, just a little while ago, I spoke about the Minnesota race and other political matters with the always outspoken Governor Jesse Ventura.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): Governor Ventura, thanks as usual for joining us. Tell us how it's looking out in Minnesota today. Who's going to win that big Senate race?
GOV. JESSE VENTURA (I), MINNESOTA: Well, I can't make that prediction, Wolf, but I can tell you that the media did the best job they could and the two, the Democratic and Republican Parties did the best job they could on eliminating the third party, and the third party being involved in the debate. I'm outraged, Wolf, over the fact that a seated governor's party was not included in the final debate before an election.
I mean Vice President Mondale came in and set the terms. He said only he and Coleman would debate. He said what time it would happen and where it would take place and that any other candidates were left out in the cold. That's outrageous to me. That isn't what American politics should be about and it certainly shouldn't be what freedom is about.
BLITZER (on camera): The argument I guess they made, both of the other political parties, was that Jim Moore (ph) the third party candidate, your candidate, was very low in the polls and he really was not a factor.
VENTURA: Oh, really well they said that four years ago when I ran too, Wolf. Not one poll had me leading. Why do we even allow polls? I think polls should be banished. They influence elections. They're simply to give the media stories and, as I said, they influence elections and they influence who's allowed to participate in elections.
The same thing happened in 1996. You had an Independent candidate that got 20 percent of the vote in the previous election and then was not allowed to debate in 1996. It's a disgrace to America, Wolf, what the media is holding up. I guess what it comes down to, if you contribute $12 million a piece, as the Democrats and Republicans did to the media coffers, then the media will let you be in their debates.
BLITZER: Is it as simple as that or, do you believe that it was, you know, with 48 hours to go or even 24 hours to go, they just wanted to get this one debate between the two leading candidates?
VENTURA: Well, the point being is they always raise the bar, Wolf. First they tell us we have to achieve major party status. In my opinion, any candidate that belongs to a party that has received major party status should be allowed to debate regardless of what these phony polls say because, as I said, there wasn't one poll that had me winning. Polls are fraudulent, nothing more than you used to write media stories on.
Then what happens is once you achieve major party status, then they up the bar. Then they said well he had to be polling three percent. Well, he achieved three percent. Then they said well he had to do it two times in a row. So, it really doesn't matter, Wolf, what level we achieve. We are going to be cut out by the media and the two party system. Remember our system gives Americans one more choice than what the Iraqis get with Saddam Hussein.
BLITZER: Is that why you asked Dean Barkley, your old friend, to be the interim Senator?
VENTURA: No, that's not why. I asked him because who would I ask if not someone I can trust, someone who I understand, someone I know very well? Would Republicans and Democrats ask me to pick one of theirs? That's ridiculous. I picked someone who I...
BLITZER: I was going to say how long do you think he will actually serve in the Senate? There seems to be some dispute when his term is over, either when the new Senate is convened in January or November 19th when the election is certified.
VENTURA: Well, again those are rules that will have to be sorted out and, you know, Dean Barkley is prepared to serve until they tell him that he no longer is the U.S. Senator, and whoever wins the election will take over. But, in the interim he will go out there. They'll go back in session the 12th and he will be one of two votes along with Senator Mark Dayton from Minnesota.
BLITZER: Who do you like better as far as Mondale and Coleman are concerned?
VENTURA: I don't like either of them equally. I'm anti the two party system. I'm a third party person. I don't vote for Democrats or Republicans. If I go in and there's only a Democrat or Republican on the ballot for that particular spot, I don't vote for that spot because I refuse to vote for Democrats and Republicans.
I believe it is these parties that are ultimately hurting America and they're choking off. And I'll give you an example, Wolf, 60 percent of Minnesotans almost say they don't belong to either of the two parties. They're made to pick between these two parties and they get no help whatsoever from the media in having the opportunity to vote for a third party.
BLITZER: And before I let you go, governor, I just want to make sure that our viewers are not confused. You're not comparing our political system here in the United States to that of Saddam Hussein's in Iraq, are you?
VENTURA: No, I'm not comparing it. I'm only saying you get one more choice. You know the way our system is set up with the Democrats and Republicans in charge, with them taking their soft dirty money, with them setting up the rules, you get one more choice than Russia used to have, one more choice than Cuba has if they elections, one more choice than Iraq. Here, they give you choice, Republican or Democrat, and the third party is out in the wind and they won't allow it to grow. They won't allow it to flourish.
BLITZER: Given the passion, the fire in your voice, I sense that we haven't heard the last of Jesse Ventura, the politician that some day you'll be coming back into the political arena.
VENTURA: No, I doubt that, Wolf. You never say never but I've had my fill of it. I'm moving on and going to the private sector.
BLITZER: And how are you feeling, governor? VENTURA: I'm feeling overjoyed about it. I can't wait. I'm 60 days in a wakeup.
BLITZER: All right, Governor Jesse Ventura, good luck to you. Good luck to everyone in Minnesota, the whole nation, indeed a lot of people around the world are going to be focusing in on your state today.
VENTURA: Thank you, Wolf, always a pleasure.
BLITZER: Thank you, and here's your chance to weigh in on the story. Our web question of the day is this: How important are these elections to you? We'll have the results later in this program. Vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments, your questions. We'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
Turning now to the other top story of the day, the smallpox virus in the wrong hands, secret stocks of the deadly virus in four nations, an intelligence debrief when we return. Also, Winona watch in Beverly Hills, the jury is still out but a verdict is expected at any time now.
And, a Diana tell-all, her former butler's reported statement to police on intimate details of a royal private life, all that plus more election coverage. It's all coming up, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We'll have much more coverage of the election coming up this hour, but we turn now to some chilling findings from a U.S. intelligence review which says four nations, including Iraq and North Korea, secretly possess the deadly smallpox virus. Let's go straight to CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. He has details -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf last year the Bush administration asked U.S. intelligence to report to it on who might have secret stocks of the smallpox virus since, although the disease was eradicated years ago, it could be used as a biological weapon. Smallpox kills roughly a third of those who get infected with the virus. Through human history, it's estimated to have taken hundred of millions of lives.
The intelligence report came back last spring and it said four nations are believed to have secret stocks of smallpox, two nations President Bush calls part of the "axis of evil," Iraq, North Korea, plus Russia and a surprise here, France. The secret stocks are in addition to publicly known samples of the smallpox virus, which are held at two labs, one in the United States and one in Russia.
The report also noted U.S. officials say that evidence captured in Afghanistan and elsewhere suggests Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda put some effort, money, and personnel into trying to acquire a smallpox virus that could be used as a weapon but the report also says there's no indication al Qaeda succeeded or that it had the wherewithal to use smallpox as a weapon.
Still, the report has been fueling a debate within the Bush administration over how many Americans should be vaccinated and how soon. Vice President Cheney reportedly feels strongly that a major vaccination program should be initiated very soon. Others, like HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, argue for waiting for better quality vaccine stocks and for a more limited program to start in about two years. You can find experts on both side of that debate, Wolf, in this town.
BLITZER: That's not that surprising that you could find experts on all sides of all debates. David Ensor thanks for that important information. Millions of us, of course, received routine smallpox vaccinations as children, though the immunizations were halted decades ago as the disease was wiped out around the world. A resumption of mass immunizations could thwart a bioterror attack but the side effects can be serious and sometimes indeed fatal. I recently spoke with Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIR. CDC: We expect maybe five to ten very serious complications per million people vaccinated, but it depends in part on how good we are at screening out the people at high risk. In an emergency, the overriding goal is to get vaccine to the exposed people, so we will have some complications.
BLITZER: And, in general, who are the people at highest risk?
GERBERDING: The people who are immuno-suppressed, little children, and people with underlying diseases are the ones that are most likely to have the serious complications. But, the people who are immunized in their youth probably have a lower risk, so they may have fewer complications overall.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We want to immediately go to CNN's Jeff Greenfield at CNN Headquarters in Atlanta. He's got some breaking election news. Jeff, tell us what you have.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, even though the polls are still open everywhere in the United States, we have some rather dramatic news to report about how these votes will be projected, or particularly how the exit polls will or won't be. As you know, traditionally over the last several years when polls close, the networks project the winner if they can off exit polls. You know, we ask voters as they're leaving the polling booth what they're doing.
Well, earlier this afternoon, actually a few minutes ago, Voter News Service, that's the consortium of news organizations, networks, and a couple of news gathering groups, said, told everyone they are not satisfied with the accuracy of the exit poll analysis and will not be in a position to be providing exit polls for the national voter trends or for state races. Let me say that again, the Voter News Service has said because of a glitch in the analysis part of the voting of the polling data, they are not satisfied with the accuracy of the analysis, are not in a position to provide information, exit poll information nationally or about state races.
What this means is that when the polls close, instead of seeing what you the viewers are used to seeing, instant projections, we at CNN will wait for votes to come in. We will be using sample precincts from VNS, vote tabulations from AP, and CNN's own real vote system that we established some time ago. You've been hearing about it for days in ten states where there are key races.
So, it means, Wolf that while we will be projecting races once we have analyzed votes, there will be from us no exit poll projections tonight.
BLITZER: Jeff, this is shocking news, obviously, for those of us who have grown up with these exit polls over the years. Is this the result, though, of being extra cautious in the aftermath of the Florida debacle?
GREENFIELD: It's more than that. We at CNN were being extra cautious when we established this real vote system, where we will be sending people, our own people into hundreds of precincts to gather thousands of votes in sample precincts and analyze votes, not polling data, votes.
But this is something else. This is Voter News Service, the organization that all the networks use to gather exit polls and analyze them saying, you know what, we collected the polling data OK, but when we put it through the computer, we just don't have confidence in its accuracy and VNS is saying, we're not providing as of this moment, we're not in the position to provide not only national data, you know, how did women vote, how did young people vote, how did blue collar vote, but in states. They will not be in a position to produce reliable exit poll data.
So, in other words, half hour after the polls close or 15 minutes or an hour, once VNS has enough real votes, actual votes, or once CNN has our own vote data, we may be in a position to project or, Wolf, as some people have wished that they could do, go back to the past, we may be waiting around until enough real votes are tabulated that we can saw who won and who lost.
BLITZER: We may have to wait and do it as you say, Jeff, the old-fashioned way. We'll have to wait for real votes to be counted instead of these projections. This is a huge story. We'll continue to monitor it and I know you'll be with us throughout the night. Jeff Greenfield with very important news for all of us who have been watching these elections, Jeff thanks very much.
Let's go on to some other important news that we're monitoring right now as well. New details on that remote-controlled missile strike in Yemen. Once again here's CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice over): Official public confirmation that the U.S. made the attack in Yemen killing six al Qaeda members came during a CNN interview with Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's a very successful, tactical operation.
ENSOR: And an operation that may be used again.
WOLFOWITZ: We've just got to keep the pressure on everywhere we're able to and we've got to deny the sanctuaries everywhere we're able to, and we've got to put pressure on every government that is giving these people support to get out of that business.
ENSOR: The attack was made using Hellfire missiles fired from a pilotless drone aircraft controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency. Sources say the CIA drone followed the car for over an hour before firing. It was the first time the tactic has been used by the U.S. outside of Afghanistan.
Among the six killed was Abu Ali Al-Harithi, also known as Kayeed Sinan (ph) Al-Harithi, who was once a senior bodyguard for Osama bin Laden, seen in this exclusive CNN video. Officials say he led al Qaeda in Yemen, was among the top 15 leaders worldwide, and was suspected of involvement in the attack in 2000 on the USS Cole in Yemen. Until Wolfowitz spoke, American officials had refused to confirm it was a U.S. attack, one reason concern about the impact on Arab and Yemeni public opinion.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE): Any Yemeni citizen, regardless of whether he is thought to be involved or not, should be prosecuted, tied by the Yemeni government itself, by the people here in Yemen. So, having the death sentence applied by a foreign state wouldn't have the public happy at all.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And hunt them down.
ENSOR: But, as President Bush himself made clear only Monday, the administration sees this incident as part of a war on terror, not a legal proceeding. It hopes the attack may cause other al Qaeda leaders to feel unsafe and keep them on the run. David Ensor CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And there are dramatic developments in the sniper story we've been following over the past many weeks. Federal prosecutors have just two days to indict the sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad. He was back in court today for a detention hearing and afterward we heard from his attorney. CNN's Patty Davis is just outside the courthouse. She's joining us now live -- Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf that was Muhammad's third time in court since he was arrested a week and a half ago. Today, a federal magistrate ordered him detained because of his alleged connection to the sniper killings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS (voice over): Sniper suspect John Muhammad looked somber and unemotional in his maroon prison jumpsuit staring straight ahead as a federal magistrate ruled he should be kept behind bars until he goes to trial. Magistrate Jillen Shultz (ph) agreed with federal prosecutors that there is "clear and convincing evidence that Muhammad is both a danger to the community and a flight risk."
Among charges in a 20-count federal criminal complaint brought last week, Extortion, authorities say he left notes at murder scenes demanding $10 million to stop the killings. Public defender James Wyda calls that a stretch, describing the government's charge this way.
JAMES WYDA, PUBLIC DEFENDER: You know it is a bizarre, crackpot scheme, one that was unlikely to be accomplished in light of the chronology, one that was frankly impossible to accomplish as a matter of fact.
DAVIS: In court, Wyda called Muhammad a man who's never been convicted of a crime who served his country and loves his children. Muhammad has been charged with Murder in Maryland and Virginia for his alleged involvement in the sniper killing spree. He's also been charged with two other homicides in Alabama and Louisiana. His alleged accomplice, John Malvo, was ordered detained Monday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS (on camera): The federal magistrate set a preliminary hearing for Muhammad for this Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Patty Davis just outside the courthouse thanks very much. Meanwhile, Maryland and Virginia prosecutors are working with the Justice Department to decide who gets to try the sniper suspects first, and we're told a decision could come Thursday. Our Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena is following that part of the story -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well that's right, Wolf, but if you'll allow me, I'd like to start with telling you that police in Tucson, Arizona are taking another look at a homicide that occurred there back in March. According to the sniper task force here in Washington, the two sniper suspects were in Tucson at that time visiting Muhammad's sister. Now, police along with the FBI and the ATF are reexamining evidence from a March 19th shooting that occurred at a golf course in Tucson, the victim a 60-year-old male. The weapon that was used in that shooting was a rifle.
Now, Wolf, I also wanted to add a bit to what Patty just reported. The preliminary hearing that was set for Friday for Muhammad is very unlikely. According to sources, the government will seek an indictment against Muhammad before then and we're likely to hear that by Thursday because grand juries don't meet on Friday.
We're also expecting a decision out of the Justice Department this week regarding which jurisdiction will get to take the case to court first. Attorney General John Ashcroft is reviewing his options. He did meet today with FBI Director Robert Mueller, Justice Department lawyers to go over evidence that has been gathered so far. Sources say that it is likely that a county in Virginia will go first because both Muhammad and Malvo would face the death penalty there. As you know, Wolf, Virginia law does permit the execution of juveniles, back to you.
BLITZER: All right, 48 hours we'll soon find out who gets to go first. Kelli Arena thanks very much for that report. That's to Patty Davis as well.
When we come back, Saks, lies, and videotape, Winona Ryder on trial awaiting a verdict. We'll go live to Beverly Hills for the celebrity shoplifting trial. Will the actress face hard time or get off the hook?
Plus, Mondale and Bush, not the dads, but their political savvy sons, George P. Bush and Bill Mondale. Join us live to talk about the next generation of leaders. And, this is a live look at CNN's Election Headquarters. Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of all the late-breaking election news, and we mean late-breaking news. We'll have it all, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Now, that Britain's Queen Elizabeth has cleared him of theft charges, Paul Burrell is ready to go public. The former butler to Princess Diana will break his silence tomorrow in a newspaper interview. As CNN's Robin Kernoy (ph) reports, stories about the late princess dominate British headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBIN KERNOY (ph), CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her story still sells newspapers five years after her death in a Paris car crash. New allegations about Diana, Princess of Wales, sparked a tabloid war in Britain. Alleged royal secrets said to come from a confidential briefing her former butler, Paul Burrell, had with police mysteriously leaked to some newspapers.
ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL PHOTOGRAPHER: These stories about her going out to see lovers naked beneath her fur coat or going to Paddington Station to try and persuade prostitutes to get off the street, these are shocking and revelatory, but actually they're part of the great image of Saint Diana.
KERNOY (ph): The papers say her former butler, Paul Burrell, is devastated by these sensational new allegations.
PIERS MORGAN, EDITOR, "DAILY MIRROR": Trying to create an impression that he would be prepared to betray Diana and he never would. This is a guy that I think was totally loyal to her when she was alive and will always be totally loyal.
KERNOY (ph): So he's giving an exclusive interview to the "Daily Mirror" about his relationship with Princess Diana and the royal family. It's due in the Wednesday edition. The interview is Paul Burrell's first since all criminal charges against him were shockingly dropped last Friday at London's Old Bailey Court. He had been standing trial for the alleged theft of more than 300 of Diana's personal items after her death. The trial collapsed after the queen revealed to prosecutors that Burrell told her he was taking items for safe keeping.
MORGAN: This is going to be explosive, sensational material because Paul is getting very emotional. He's angry. He's vengeful.
KERNOY (ph): Competing newspapers are speculating that he was paid between four and $800,000.
Robin Kernoy (ph), CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: This time, I'll be speaking with Sir David Frost from London about this and other subjects.
Meanwhile it's Mondale and Bush, Democrat and Republican. Political sons Bill Mondale and George P. Bush weigh in on this year's election. Where's the next generation of leaders heading? We'll ask them. You're watching WOLF BLITZER REPORTS on this Election Day. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're following an important story, the Voter News Service, a consortium that represents the television networks as well as the associated press in exit polls now says they will not, repeat, not be able to provide accurate information on those exit polls, as Jeff Greenfield reported just a little while ago. We're going to have much more from Jeff and Bill Schneider coming up shortly.
But as we've been promising all hour, we have a couple of special guests with us right now and they're named Mondale and Bush. Of course there's a catch. The Mondale we'll be talking to is Walter Mondale's son, Bill. And the George Bush joining us is not the president, but the president's nephew, George P. Bush, who also happens to be the son of the Florida governor, Jeb Bush. As we all now, Jeb Bush is in one of the most closely watched governor's races in the country today.
George, thanks so much for joining us. How's it look for your dad right now?
GEORGE P. BUSH, SON OF FLA. GOV. JEB BUSH: Things are looking good. My father is still continuing to try to encourage voters to hit the polls. But today he's generally upbeat and he's positive about his chances tonight. BLITZER: The last time I spoke to you was a couple years ago at the convention. I know you were planning on going to law school. Is that what you're doing now?
BUSH: Yes, sir. I'm in my third year of law school and getting prepared to take the bar this upcoming summer and chipping in for my father's campaign whenever I have the chance.
BLITZER: It's hard to be in law school and campaigning at the same time as we all know. What is your future looking like, law, politics, a little bit of both?
BUSH: Well, I just follow my grandmother's advice and that is to make a name for yourself outside of politics, you know, pay off a mortgage, pay taxes and do what normal folks do before you even think about going into politics. And so right now I'm focused on graduating from law school and possibly practicing. And we'll see down the road, but I don't know. Right now, I enjoy my role in helping out my uncle and my father.
BLITZER: Well, you should listen to your grandmother, Barbara Bush. She's a very smart woman. She knows what she's talking about. Why are so many young people your age, in their 20s, sort of apathetic when it comes to politics, really don't care, and certainly don't go out and vote in significant numbers?
BUSH: The statistics you would think lead us to believe that younger voters don't go out. But I think that it's right now an incredibly opportunistic time for campaigns on both sides of the aisle to reach out to younger voters. I think today there's a study done that showed that close to 30 million voters aged between 18 and 30 didn't show up to the polls in 2000. That's an incredible -- large number. So what we're trying to do is reach out to younger voters to try to tap that resource.
BLITZER: George P. Bush, I think you got a great future ahead of you and we'll look forward to talking to you many times. Good luck to you, your family, of course, as we watch these poll results unfold in the coming hours, appreciate it very much.
Let's go to St. Paul, Minnesota now. That's the scene of another tight and unexpected Senate race between the Republican Norm Coleman and the Democrat, Walter Mondale. The former senator and vice president entered the contest, as we all know, after the incumbent, Paul Wellstone, suddenly died late last month in a plane crash. Joining me now is Walter Mondale's son, Bill Mondale.
Bill, thanks for joining us. I guess you were just as surprised as all of us to see your dad out there campaigning once again for himself.
BILL MONDALE, SON OF WALTER MONDALE: Well, when the tragedy happened, I think it became pretty clear that in order to unify the state and to move forward, it had to be dad. So I was surprised but not shocked. You know, they asked my mom -- they said, "Well, if you win, you have to move to Washington. You have to leave your grandsons. What's that going be like?" And she said, "I'm a public servant. That's what we do." SO I'm surprised but really proud today.
BLITZER: How's he doing out there? As far as you can tell, this past week has been a rough week, obviously, for him and the rest of your family.
MONDALE: Well, tumultuous, yes, that's an understatement. But let me tell you, this has been just an amazing turnout. And you were talking to George P. Bush by the way, good luck on the bar, George. It was fun for me, too. But the kids today are just -- those crazy college kids, they're out like crazy. Today the voter turnout is amazing. We'll reach higher than the last general election.
And our campaign, the well Wellstone/Mondale campaign is full of kids and they're anything but apathetic. I just drove back from Minneapolis and every single bridge top was filled with kids with signs and it's just amazing. It really -- you know today, when I went to vote, I have never seen so many people in the voting booth and most of them were young Americans, Minnesotans. They're ready to vote and they're excited about this campaign. So I don't see any apathy here in Minnesota.
BLITZER: You like politics, Bill. Is there a future for the next generation of Mondales in politics in Minnesota?
MONDALE: Well, I think there's always a future when you have the conscious to vote. That's for sure. I'm so proud of my brother. He's been involved. My sister, she's more the glamorous type, but any way that I can serve. That was the great thing about this campaign. It was five days long. I walked into the Wellstone campaign and, like my dad did, we just said, "Hey, tell me what I need to do?" That's what happened and it's been really fun. I really loved it.
BLITZER: Bill Mondale, the son of Walter Mondale. Give my best wishes to your entire family. Good luck to you, of course. We'll be watching the outcome in Minnesota. Huge voter turnout relatively speaking in Minnesota today and tonight. Thanks, Bill, for joining us...
MONDALE: Thanks.
BLITZER: ...on CNN, of course. CNN.com, we'll have complete coverage of the election returns. You can click on our election scorecard for customized coverage of the races that interest you the most. That and much more at www.CNN.com.
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BLITZER: We've got a huge story we're following right now. We want to go back to CNN headquarters in Atlanta. That's where Jeff Greenfield is standing by together with Bill Schneider.
Jeff, for our viewers just tuning in right now, tell us what's going on. GREENFIELD: Wolf, a few minutes ago, about a half hour ago, Voter News Service, that's the joint effort of the five networks and Associated Press that collects and analyzes exit poll data said that they would simply lack confidence in the accuracy of their analysis of exit polls and were not in a position to produce national or state exit poll data this evening. What that means is that the traditional way we've seen election nights where as soon as the polls close, the networks project winners based on exit poll data at least as of now will not happen. Instead, we'll go back to a kind of older -- old fashion notion of bringing in votes.
And I don't mean to say old fashion about the person next to me. That is senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, who has spent a lifetime at this.
Bill, quickly, does this mean we will have to wait until every last vote is counted to project winners?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, no, Jeff, in some races where pre-election polls showed one candidate with a big lead and where the exit poll is consistent with that big lead, we may project a winner. In cases where the exit poll is not showing a decisive lead, we're going to be very cautious and we're only going to project outcomes based on real votes. That's the old fashion way.
GREENFIELD: All right, now one thing that is new fashion is that CNN, perhaps anticipating or remembering what happened in 2000, has created real vote. That in 10 states with close races, we have -- there are sample precincts, several hundred of them where we'll be gathering data but not from exit polls, from votes, actual counted votes. And we will be analyzing them as will the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) be analyzing sample precincts and data. So we may actually project but off votes.
SCHNEIDER: Real votes and we have different sources. We have our own sources as well as VNS.
GREENFIELD: Very quickly, what about all those factoids we get on Election Night? Here is how young people voted, how women voted, how labor people voted. Are we going to have them tonight?
SCHNEIDER: We won't have them tonight. We usually can explain what groups supported each candidate and why. We may not be able to do that tonight. But in the future and then in the next few days, we think we'll be able to start explaining what happened.
GREENFIELD: So Wolf, I guess we have a big story even for any poll in America has closed -- to you, sir.
BLITZER: It's a huge story that we'll be watching all night. Jeff Greenfield and Bill Schneider, the two best political analysts in the business by far. They'll be with us, of course, all night here on CNN. Ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't get any better than that.
Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." How important are these elections to you? Log on to CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
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BLITZER: Now here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked -- how important are these elections to you? Seventy-seven percent of you say very important, 11 percent say important, 12 percent say not important. You can find the exact vote tally and continue to vote by the way on my website CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have right now. Join me tomorrow of course 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also weekdays at noon Eastern for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." After the break, Larry King will interview Trent Lott. The Senate minority leader is looking to be the majority leader. We'll see if he will be. In less than 10 minutes, CNN special coverage of "AMERICA VOTES" will continue. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
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