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American Morning

Interview With Richard Preston

Aired November 07, 2002 - 07:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Pentagon officials have confirmed to CNN that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is going to the White House today to ask President Bush for permission to vaccinate troops for smallpox.
Separately, a tourist visiting New York City has tested positive for bubonic plague, a disease that hasn't been seen in this city for at least 100 years.

Bubonic plague is a worrisome phrase in these days of fears about bioterrorism. How vulnerable are we to such attacks?

Well, there is a new book out called, "The Demon in the Freezer," which looks at the threat of such germ warfare. And its author, Richard Preston, joins me now.

Good morning -- good to see you again.

RICHARD PRESTON, AUTHOR, "THE DEMON IN THE FREEZER": Good morning.

ZAHN: How do you get bubonic plague?

PRESTON: Well, you get it from being bitten by a flea, which is infected with the organism. It's a microbe. It's a bacterium. Its scientific name is yersinia pestis. But once you get it, you can't transmit it to someone else, fortunately.

ZAHN: And how does the flea get it?

PRESTON: The flea gets it by biting a rat. This organism cycles in nature among rats and fleas, and we get caught in the crossfire, as it were.

ZAHN: So, if you can't transfer it to another person, why is there so much concern about this case here in New York City that we haven't seen for almost a century?

PRESTON: Well, I think we're living now in an age of biological weapons and terrorism related to that. And the organism, the plague organism, has been created as a biological weapon in places like the former Soviet Union. So, it could be used as a terrorist weapon.

If it were to spread among people, it would spread in the form of a cough, like a pneumonia-like illness. And fortunately, these cases I think are not spreading that way. But because it is a weapon, it's the kind of thing that public health doctors always have to consider as -- you know, we have to think about this as terrorism.

ZAHN: You're saying that we have to assume that this case in New York City is the product of terrorism?

PRESTON: No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to imply that at all.

ZAHN: OK.

PRESTON: I think it's natural -- I think it's a natural outbreak. This was a couple. They were in New Mexico. They're from New Mexico, and they were visiting New York City. They apparently became infected in New Mexico, where the plague is an illness that occasionally appears. It's about something like, you know, 20 cases a year in the United States occur naturally.

ZAHN: And it's more common on the West Coast than it is here on the East Coast?

PRESTON: Yes, it's in the west -- in the southwest of the United States primarily.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the issue of smallpox. I guess it was on Tuesday -- it sort of got lost in all of the election coverage -- we learned that we now think that North Korea, Iraq, France and Russia have the virus.

Let's focus on North Korea and Iraq. What do they have, and how difficult is it to figure out what they're going to do with it?

PRESTON: Well, the smallpox virus is probably the biological equivalent of the nuclear bomb. It's the most powerful biological weapon in the world as far as we know. It's highly contagious among humans. It has a very high fatality rate, and it does spread in the air from person to person.

I think there's pretty good evidence that Iraq most likely has smallpox. It may be one of the most powerful weapons in Saddam Hussein's arsenal.

So, if a war with Iraq becomes more likely, then we have to ask the question as to whether or not Saddam would be crazy enough to ever release smallpox in the United States as a terror attack, or whether it could be part of a war zone in the Middle East, whether smallpox could in fact get to our troops.

ZAHN: It's pretty clear how that would be done against the troops. What would you use as your method of transport here to the United States?

PRESTON: Human bodies...

ZAHN: What would be the delivery system?

PRESTON: Human bodies.

ZAHN: You send someone infected over here? PRESTON: Yes, that would be the more likely way to do it. I wouldn't want to get too specific about other ways that it could be done.

But, you know, we think now -- we're in a new age. This is the age of biological weapons really. And we think about things like asymmetrical warfare. The experts talk about that. And asymmetrical war would be a war between the United States and Iraq, where the U.S. has overwhelming conventional forces and superiority, but Iraq has maybe smallpox.

ZAHN: I know you must be scaring the heck out of a lot of people listening to this, this morning. But for a different perspective, I wanted to put up on the screen something that Dr. Marc Siegel of NYU has had to say, and he says, you know, if it were to come here -- quote: "There is reason to believe that everyone vaccinated before 1972 still has some immunity and wouldn't get as sick from smallpox. This 'herd immunity' would also slow the spread in the event of an attack."

PRESTON: I certainly hope so. Of course, anybody under the age of 30 will have no immunity. So, the younger people are the ones who could be most vulnerable to this virus. We have to...

ZAHN: I know there has been so much debate in this country about ultimately whether everybody in the country will be required or have the opportunity to be inoculated. Where do you see that going...

PRESTON: Well, I think...

ZAHN: ...especially now that we've heard this announcement from Donald Rumsfeld, as related to U.S. troops?

PRESTON: Well, I just hope -- it appears that Rumsfeld does take seriously smallpox as a weapon, but you have to think about the American people as well. It would be a good idea to start vaccinating emergency people, but probably not more than that, so that the government can get some experience in how the vaccine works, get an idea of how we're going to get into people fast if we need to.

I, myself, would like to see the public given the choice, the free choice, to get the vaccine if they want it for their families.

ZAHN: And that's not even available yet, as this debate rages on.

PRESTON: Unfortunately.

ZAHN: Richard Preston, the author of "The Demon in the Freezer," thanks for dropping by -- appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired November 7, 2002 - 07:16   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Pentagon officials have confirmed to CNN that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is going to the White House today to ask President Bush for permission to vaccinate troops for smallpox.
Separately, a tourist visiting New York City has tested positive for bubonic plague, a disease that hasn't been seen in this city for at least 100 years.

Bubonic plague is a worrisome phrase in these days of fears about bioterrorism. How vulnerable are we to such attacks?

Well, there is a new book out called, "The Demon in the Freezer," which looks at the threat of such germ warfare. And its author, Richard Preston, joins me now.

Good morning -- good to see you again.

RICHARD PRESTON, AUTHOR, "THE DEMON IN THE FREEZER": Good morning.

ZAHN: How do you get bubonic plague?

PRESTON: Well, you get it from being bitten by a flea, which is infected with the organism. It's a microbe. It's a bacterium. Its scientific name is yersinia pestis. But once you get it, you can't transmit it to someone else, fortunately.

ZAHN: And how does the flea get it?

PRESTON: The flea gets it by biting a rat. This organism cycles in nature among rats and fleas, and we get caught in the crossfire, as it were.

ZAHN: So, if you can't transfer it to another person, why is there so much concern about this case here in New York City that we haven't seen for almost a century?

PRESTON: Well, I think we're living now in an age of biological weapons and terrorism related to that. And the organism, the plague organism, has been created as a biological weapon in places like the former Soviet Union. So, it could be used as a terrorist weapon.

If it were to spread among people, it would spread in the form of a cough, like a pneumonia-like illness. And fortunately, these cases I think are not spreading that way. But because it is a weapon, it's the kind of thing that public health doctors always have to consider as -- you know, we have to think about this as terrorism.

ZAHN: You're saying that we have to assume that this case in New York City is the product of terrorism?

PRESTON: No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to imply that at all.

ZAHN: OK.

PRESTON: I think it's natural -- I think it's a natural outbreak. This was a couple. They were in New Mexico. They're from New Mexico, and they were visiting New York City. They apparently became infected in New Mexico, where the plague is an illness that occasionally appears. It's about something like, you know, 20 cases a year in the United States occur naturally.

ZAHN: And it's more common on the West Coast than it is here on the East Coast?

PRESTON: Yes, it's in the west -- in the southwest of the United States primarily.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the issue of smallpox. I guess it was on Tuesday -- it sort of got lost in all of the election coverage -- we learned that we now think that North Korea, Iraq, France and Russia have the virus.

Let's focus on North Korea and Iraq. What do they have, and how difficult is it to figure out what they're going to do with it?

PRESTON: Well, the smallpox virus is probably the biological equivalent of the nuclear bomb. It's the most powerful biological weapon in the world as far as we know. It's highly contagious among humans. It has a very high fatality rate, and it does spread in the air from person to person.

I think there's pretty good evidence that Iraq most likely has smallpox. It may be one of the most powerful weapons in Saddam Hussein's arsenal.

So, if a war with Iraq becomes more likely, then we have to ask the question as to whether or not Saddam would be crazy enough to ever release smallpox in the United States as a terror attack, or whether it could be part of a war zone in the Middle East, whether smallpox could in fact get to our troops.

ZAHN: It's pretty clear how that would be done against the troops. What would you use as your method of transport here to the United States?

PRESTON: Human bodies...

ZAHN: What would be the delivery system?

PRESTON: Human bodies.

ZAHN: You send someone infected over here? PRESTON: Yes, that would be the more likely way to do it. I wouldn't want to get too specific about other ways that it could be done.

But, you know, we think now -- we're in a new age. This is the age of biological weapons really. And we think about things like asymmetrical warfare. The experts talk about that. And asymmetrical war would be a war between the United States and Iraq, where the U.S. has overwhelming conventional forces and superiority, but Iraq has maybe smallpox.

ZAHN: I know you must be scaring the heck out of a lot of people listening to this, this morning. But for a different perspective, I wanted to put up on the screen something that Dr. Marc Siegel of NYU has had to say, and he says, you know, if it were to come here -- quote: "There is reason to believe that everyone vaccinated before 1972 still has some immunity and wouldn't get as sick from smallpox. This 'herd immunity' would also slow the spread in the event of an attack."

PRESTON: I certainly hope so. Of course, anybody under the age of 30 will have no immunity. So, the younger people are the ones who could be most vulnerable to this virus. We have to...

ZAHN: I know there has been so much debate in this country about ultimately whether everybody in the country will be required or have the opportunity to be inoculated. Where do you see that going...

PRESTON: Well, I think...

ZAHN: ...especially now that we've heard this announcement from Donald Rumsfeld, as related to U.S. troops?

PRESTON: Well, I just hope -- it appears that Rumsfeld does take seriously smallpox as a weapon, but you have to think about the American people as well. It would be a good idea to start vaccinating emergency people, but probably not more than that, so that the government can get some experience in how the vaccine works, get an idea of how we're going to get into people fast if we need to.

I, myself, would like to see the public given the choice, the free choice, to get the vaccine if they want it for their families.

ZAHN: And that's not even available yet, as this debate rages on.

PRESTON: Unfortunately.

ZAHN: Richard Preston, the author of "The Demon in the Freezer," thanks for dropping by -- appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.