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CNN Live Today

Interview with Marcia Slacum Greene

Aired November 08, 2002 - 11:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: An ex-wife of John Allen Muhammad says that she is convinced that he came to the D.C. area to kill her.
That's according to a report in today's "Washington Post" based on a four-hour interview with Mildred Muhammad.

Marcia Slacum Greene is the "Post" reporter who wrote this article, and she joins us now live -- good morning, glad to have you with us this morning, because we read this article here, and I think it had the same -- everyone had the same reaction, it was like a kick in the stomach.

This woman told you that she believes that because of her, all of these people are dead?

MARCIA SLACUM GREENE, "WASHINGTON POST": Yes, she believes that he was looking for her, that he was -- had said that he was going to kill her, and she believed that he was a man of his word, and so she moved to this area to get away from him, and she always feared that one day, she was going to see him outside her door.

HARRIS: What did she tell you about what happened to make this man go from wanting to marry her to wanting to kill her?

GREENE: She said he changed dramatically after he had served in the Persian Gulf War, and she said that the man who came home was angry and seemed very, very different.

HARRIS: Like how?

GREENE: Well, different in the sense that he was quiet, he wasn't as talkative. He was bitter. He said that some things that happened when he was in the war had made him very angry and frustrated with the military. This was a guy who went into the military wanting it to make it a career, but when he came home, he wanted out of the military.

HARRIS: Now, as I understand it, she's convinced that the shootings that first happened at the Michael's stores were targeted at her? Can you explain that?

GREENE: Well, let me make something clear. She indicated that when she first heard about the sniper, she did not think that her husband -- ex-husband was involved.

In fact, she said she did think about it, but said, No, I'm sure he just wants to kill me, he wouldn't be shooting other people, so until he was arrested, and until she went back to look at the places where some of the shootings had taken place, it was only then she started seeing what could be clues.

She indicated that, for example, Michael's was one of her favorite stores, and she indicated when she lived in Tacoma, Washington, that was one of the places that she shopped, and that in fact, she bought material from Michael's to make the bride and groom for her wedding -- the miniature bride...

HARRIS: So, she thought that was a signal to her, then.

GREENE: So she thought that was a signal. She also looked at the fact that one of the shootings that has been linked to him in Maryland is less than a mile from where she lived, and directly across the street from where she used to catch the bus.

This was a woman who believed that he was in this area stalking her.

HARRIS: Well, how many children did the two of them have together?

GREENE: Three.

HARRIS: And they all lived there, correct?

GREENE: They lived with her, yes.

HARRIS: In fact, one of them is John Jr., correct?

GREENE: Yes, his name is John Jr., but...

HARRIS: Did she talk to you about the children -- I'm sorry -- did she talk to you...

GREENE: She talked about -- she talked about the children from the standpoint that when they lived in Tacoma, she accused him of abducting the kids, and the kids were missing from her for months, so she actually had been looking for him during that time, and during that time is when he threatened her life.

So then, she went into hiding, she got full custody of the children in 2001, and that was the last time that she saw him, and he made it clear to people that he wanted to have a chance to visit his children and that was not the case.

HARRIS: Did she describe to you at all what it was like to tell the kids, when the kids found out that it was their father who was responsible for this, and how they have been able to come to grips with that?

GREENE: Well, he's still a suspect, and she has made it clear that the children, it's been very painful for them, and she has indicated to them -- and this is difficult for her too, to try to make them feel better, she has said that, Remember, he is a suspect, all of the evidence is not in. Let's see what happens. HARRIS: Yes, of course. Of course, we must remember that. But one of the things that we've -- in the media, and as well as those people I have been talking to in the street about this case, everyone is wondering, how is it that John Allen Muhammad could get someone like Lee Malvo to join him in something like this, and you say that when you talked with her, she told you about mind games that John would play, John Muhammad?

GREENE: Yes. She used the term "psychological warfare." She said he was very good at it, and from her experiences with him, she said at one point, that even she had contemplated suicide.

HARRIS: Really?

GREENE: Yes. She never met Malvo, but she indicated that knowing her husband, knowing just how good he was at what she called mind games, that she said that you know, John Malvo, who's only 17, that his life was over when he met John Muhammad, because Muhammad would try to control him.

HARRIS: Did she give you any theory as to how she thinks he did do that?

GREENE: Well, she said that -- he's just very good at mind games, he is very good at convincing people of things.

Let me give you an example. Her son suffers from asthma, and this has been a problem since he's been a child, but her ex-husband always felt that asthma was not a manly thing, and she told me that sadly, even though he needed medication, that her husband constantly told him that, You need to stop whining, get over it, and you won't really be a man unless you get over this asthma thing.

HARRIS: Boy. What kind of -- I know you're not a psychiatrist, so this may be a tough question to ask you. What do you think about her state of mind right now, and what life inside that house must be like right now, because I know she's got to be in hiding right now.

GREENE: I can tell you what she told me, and that is that she's trying to be strong for the children. She indicated to me that it's as though she's carrying four emotions, set of difficult emotions, for the three children and herself, but she has to be strong for them.

She has a beautiful smile, and she says that she tries to put a smile on for them, she talks about trying to keep them from watching the news and all of the things that are being said about her father -- their father, and that she watches the news at night, and that she sometimes goes into the bathroom and cries into a towel, just so that the children won't hear.

HARRIS: Boy. Is she fearful that somehow, some way, he may be freed and may come after her again?

GREENE: She's very fearful. She thinks that from what she's seen, and she is following the news closely, that the evidence does not say that he's absolutely guilty, and she fears that one day she still may look around and see him with a gun pointed at her.

HARRIS: I've got to ask you this last one on the way out. You mentioned in your article that they discussed in the family there about changing their last name.

GREENE: Actually, she talked with the children about changing their entire names. Her son is named after his father, and so she says he's having a very difficult time, and she's just concerned that given the publicity that this case has received, that throughout the rest of their lives, the children are going to be haunted by the alleged deeds of their father.

HARRIS: Marcia Slacum Greene, congratulations. Very nice piece. Very good work there in giving the world a look at another human side of this will really sordid tale. Thank you very much. Good luck to you, take care.

GREENE: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 8, 2002 - 11:14   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: An ex-wife of John Allen Muhammad says that she is convinced that he came to the D.C. area to kill her.
That's according to a report in today's "Washington Post" based on a four-hour interview with Mildred Muhammad.

Marcia Slacum Greene is the "Post" reporter who wrote this article, and she joins us now live -- good morning, glad to have you with us this morning, because we read this article here, and I think it had the same -- everyone had the same reaction, it was like a kick in the stomach.

This woman told you that she believes that because of her, all of these people are dead?

MARCIA SLACUM GREENE, "WASHINGTON POST": Yes, she believes that he was looking for her, that he was -- had said that he was going to kill her, and she believed that he was a man of his word, and so she moved to this area to get away from him, and she always feared that one day, she was going to see him outside her door.

HARRIS: What did she tell you about what happened to make this man go from wanting to marry her to wanting to kill her?

GREENE: She said he changed dramatically after he had served in the Persian Gulf War, and she said that the man who came home was angry and seemed very, very different.

HARRIS: Like how?

GREENE: Well, different in the sense that he was quiet, he wasn't as talkative. He was bitter. He said that some things that happened when he was in the war had made him very angry and frustrated with the military. This was a guy who went into the military wanting it to make it a career, but when he came home, he wanted out of the military.

HARRIS: Now, as I understand it, she's convinced that the shootings that first happened at the Michael's stores were targeted at her? Can you explain that?

GREENE: Well, let me make something clear. She indicated that when she first heard about the sniper, she did not think that her husband -- ex-husband was involved.

In fact, she said she did think about it, but said, No, I'm sure he just wants to kill me, he wouldn't be shooting other people, so until he was arrested, and until she went back to look at the places where some of the shootings had taken place, it was only then she started seeing what could be clues.

She indicated that, for example, Michael's was one of her favorite stores, and she indicated when she lived in Tacoma, Washington, that was one of the places that she shopped, and that in fact, she bought material from Michael's to make the bride and groom for her wedding -- the miniature bride...

HARRIS: So, she thought that was a signal to her, then.

GREENE: So she thought that was a signal. She also looked at the fact that one of the shootings that has been linked to him in Maryland is less than a mile from where she lived, and directly across the street from where she used to catch the bus.

This was a woman who believed that he was in this area stalking her.

HARRIS: Well, how many children did the two of them have together?

GREENE: Three.

HARRIS: And they all lived there, correct?

GREENE: They lived with her, yes.

HARRIS: In fact, one of them is John Jr., correct?

GREENE: Yes, his name is John Jr., but...

HARRIS: Did she talk to you about the children -- I'm sorry -- did she talk to you...

GREENE: She talked about -- she talked about the children from the standpoint that when they lived in Tacoma, she accused him of abducting the kids, and the kids were missing from her for months, so she actually had been looking for him during that time, and during that time is when he threatened her life.

So then, she went into hiding, she got full custody of the children in 2001, and that was the last time that she saw him, and he made it clear to people that he wanted to have a chance to visit his children and that was not the case.

HARRIS: Did she describe to you at all what it was like to tell the kids, when the kids found out that it was their father who was responsible for this, and how they have been able to come to grips with that?

GREENE: Well, he's still a suspect, and she has made it clear that the children, it's been very painful for them, and she has indicated to them -- and this is difficult for her too, to try to make them feel better, she has said that, Remember, he is a suspect, all of the evidence is not in. Let's see what happens. HARRIS: Yes, of course. Of course, we must remember that. But one of the things that we've -- in the media, and as well as those people I have been talking to in the street about this case, everyone is wondering, how is it that John Allen Muhammad could get someone like Lee Malvo to join him in something like this, and you say that when you talked with her, she told you about mind games that John would play, John Muhammad?

GREENE: Yes. She used the term "psychological warfare." She said he was very good at it, and from her experiences with him, she said at one point, that even she had contemplated suicide.

HARRIS: Really?

GREENE: Yes. She never met Malvo, but she indicated that knowing her husband, knowing just how good he was at what she called mind games, that she said that you know, John Malvo, who's only 17, that his life was over when he met John Muhammad, because Muhammad would try to control him.

HARRIS: Did she give you any theory as to how she thinks he did do that?

GREENE: Well, she said that -- he's just very good at mind games, he is very good at convincing people of things.

Let me give you an example. Her son suffers from asthma, and this has been a problem since he's been a child, but her ex-husband always felt that asthma was not a manly thing, and she told me that sadly, even though he needed medication, that her husband constantly told him that, You need to stop whining, get over it, and you won't really be a man unless you get over this asthma thing.

HARRIS: Boy. What kind of -- I know you're not a psychiatrist, so this may be a tough question to ask you. What do you think about her state of mind right now, and what life inside that house must be like right now, because I know she's got to be in hiding right now.

GREENE: I can tell you what she told me, and that is that she's trying to be strong for the children. She indicated to me that it's as though she's carrying four emotions, set of difficult emotions, for the three children and herself, but she has to be strong for them.

She has a beautiful smile, and she says that she tries to put a smile on for them, she talks about trying to keep them from watching the news and all of the things that are being said about her father -- their father, and that she watches the news at night, and that she sometimes goes into the bathroom and cries into a towel, just so that the children won't hear.

HARRIS: Boy. Is she fearful that somehow, some way, he may be freed and may come after her again?

GREENE: She's very fearful. She thinks that from what she's seen, and she is following the news closely, that the evidence does not say that he's absolutely guilty, and she fears that one day she still may look around and see him with a gun pointed at her.

HARRIS: I've got to ask you this last one on the way out. You mentioned in your article that they discussed in the family there about changing their last name.

GREENE: Actually, she talked with the children about changing their entire names. Her son is named after his father, and so she says he's having a very difficult time, and she's just concerned that given the publicity that this case has received, that throughout the rest of their lives, the children are going to be haunted by the alleged deeds of their father.

HARRIS: Marcia Slacum Greene, congratulations. Very nice piece. Very good work there in giving the world a look at another human side of this will really sordid tale. Thank you very much. Good luck to you, take care.

GREENE: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com