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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
Did Residents Have Warning of Deadly Storms; Should Statements Made By Malvo Without Attorney Present be Admissible in Court?
Aired November 11, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN HOST: Hello everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
Killer storms in America, royal title waves in Britain, and in Virginia, guess who's talking to the police in the sniper investigation? We're going to start with those savage tornadoes unleashing winds of more than 100 miles an hour and leaving death and destruction in their wake.
Then stay tuned, because lawyers for accused sniper John Lee Malvo think they found a way to keep Malvo's statements to police out of court. We'll learn more about that.
Also, an alleged rape and cover-up turns up the heat on the British monarchy.
First, what happens, though, when good weather goes bad. Fast- moving storms spawned dozens of tornadoes. Hurricane-like wind and chunks of hail, as they destroyed homes, schools and churches across the Midwest and eastern United States. At least 35 people are dead. More than 100 missing. And the storms did some of their worst damage in Mossy Grove, Tennessee.
CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman is there. Good afternoon, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Well, Gary, obviously, it's very early to talk about this, but I am wanting to know, though, the people there. Are they able to start a regrouping process?
TUCHMAN: It was a very frightening night, Arthel. You were talking about 35 people -- at least 35 people killed in the Midwest and eastern United States. Half those people killed in the state of Tennessee: 17. And of those 17, it appears that 8 were killed in this general area, Morgan County. This is Mossy Grove. It's a very small, little town. Most of the town is intact and OK, but a swathe one mile wide by one mile long was hit by the tornadoes.
You can see behind me some of the damage. A house, its roof collapsed. The possession of these people in the yard. Cars flipped over. Trees that have been there for 100 years, you can see they were completely uprooted from these winds. And it was very scary. We are told that four of the people killed here in little Mossy Grove were in a car trying to get away last night. They did, indeed, get tornado watches and warnings. So most of the people did leave.
We're also told that one of the people who died was a firefighter who died this morning. He was looking for people who might be trapped. He suffered a heart attack and he later died at the hospital.
But as of now, the latest numbers coming to us from county emergency officials: 75 people are still missing, but very important to stress, they don't believe those people are wounded or dead. They just can't get in touch with them. There's no phone service here yet, no electricity. It's hard to get in touch with the people who live here in Mossy Grove.
NEVILLE: Well, at least there's a little bit of good news coming out of there. Do you know if the residents were able to get any sort of warning? Because usually these things hit before you know it.
TUCHMAN: Well, what's really interesting, Arthel, we're standing nearby a church, The New Life Pentecostal Church. And they had Sunday night services last night. When people who went to the services last night arrived at the church they were well aware, the people we talked to, that there were tornado watches. They decided to go to the church. They heard that proverbial freight train. They started praying inside the sanctuary. The tornado ripped through their church, partially collapsed the roof, broke glass through the building, but the sanctuary was spared, and nobody inside killed or injured. But they knew a tornado might be on its way.
NEVILLE: The power of prayer, huh? Well Gary stand by for us, because right now what we want to do is get a broader look at this from our meteorologist here at CNN, Jacqui Jeras, and Jacqui is standing here on the set with us.
Hello, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: First of all, tell us where is this storm system now?
JERAS: Well right now it's much farther off to the east. In fact, he worst of it is almost over and done with. I want to show you -- we have a radar picture, the most recent one behind me, and you can see that there are still watches in effect. Just coastal areas of North and South Carolina for a tornado watch. And then you can see, a severe thunderstorm watch from Charleston extending down towards Savannah, Georgia. The tornado watch just about set to expire and the thunderstorm watch should be expiring around 5:00 local time. Now it has been a number of hours, since about 11:30 this morning, since we've seen tornado warnings. So that's some good news. But we need to keep in mind that straight-line winds can cause just as much damage if not more than tornadoes at times.
NEVILLE: And at this point, who's is in the harm's way, if you will? JERAS: Still in harm's way, anywhere from the Outer Banks of North Carolina extending down into northern parts of Florida and we still have a slight risk of thunderstorms into tomorrow through about midday. That whole storm system is pushing on down to the South. So we'll watch from the Outer Banks, as I mentioned, down to about Lake Ocachobee, Florida tomorrow.
NEVILLE: Now Jackie, in layman's terms, tell us how all of this happened?
JERAS: Basically, this actually isn't all that unusual, by the way. We usually have what we call kind of a secondary severe weather season about this time of the year, because that cold air is trying to wedge in to place, and fight against that warm air. So you get the opposing air masses. This is a 24-hour loop. This started from 2:00 yesterday afternoon. You can see that line of severe thunderstorms that marched from the Great Lakes all the way down to the Gulf Coast.
Preliminary reports, though, that we had possibly up to 50 tornadoes that occurred in the last 24 hours. Along with other things like the straight-line damage that I had mentioned. We have warm air which is in place. We have a southerly flow at the surface. So down here where we live on the Earth, we have winds coming in strongly from the South. So that feeds in moisture from the Gulf of Mexico, and also brings in some very windy conditions as well. We call that kind of a low-level jet.
And there you see in the upper atmosphere our jet stream. And those winds move from west to east. And so when you get opposing winds like that, you can get the turning and the twisting in the atmosphere. The main three ingredients that you need for a thunderstorm to happen: you need warmth, you need moisture and you need some type of lift. And that lift is that cold front that's moving in, that cold air that's pushing in forcing the warm, buoyant air up.
NEVILLE: You know Jacqui, we love to take e-mails here on TALKBACK LIVE. And I have one coming through now, a question for you. Let's pop it up. From Clark in Alberta. He says -- "What can one do to prepare for severe weather such as this?"
JERAS: Well, what makes this situation, I think, particularly sad is that we knew well in advance that we were going to be seeing a severe weather outbreak like this. The storm prediction center in Norman, Oklahoma, yesterday morning issued a high risk of severe weathers including a threat of tornadoes from Ohio extending all the way down into northern parts of Mississippi and Alabama. So you need to keep aware of your local forecast and what is expected to come.
Second thing to do is just have a plan in mind. What are you going to happen, when those -- what are you going to do when the sirens go off? Of course, we always say the warning, you want to get to the lowest level of your home. You want to get away from doors and windows, and seek shelter. A bathroom is a great place to be. An interior closet if you don't have a basement.
NEVILLE: What if have windows in your bathroom?
JERAS: If you have windows in your bathroom, just get away from it as far as you can and I know it might sound a little bit silly to you, but you can -- if you have the time, you want to grab a mattress perhaps and put something over the top of you and just get right down in to that bathtub.
NEVILLE: In the tub. Listen, Gary Tuchman is still standing by for us.
And Gary, again, I spoke to you about this earlier -- that I know it's very early, the cleanup process -- of course, people are still concerned about loved ones and their whereabouts. Just wondering, though, just -- you know, what is the atmosphere there where you are?
TUCHMAN: Well, I'll tell you, Arthel, one of the things that put the chill in to you, as a reporter is we're standing around some of the rescue workers while they go through rubble, picking up heavy objects, hoping very much not to find anyone. And while we were around these people, they didn't find anyone. And that's the very good news.
But that's the most important thing right now, and throughout the day, looking for the possibility of survivors, someone who might be trapped or more unfortunately, looking for someone who perished. And that's how the fireman died this morning. Fireman looking for the possibility of people trapped, looking for the possibility of survivors, suffered a heart attack, he was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead. So that was the work going on this morning and still goes on right now. But it's fair to say that they're more optimistic that they won't find anyone else who died.
NEVILLE: And finally, before I let you guys go, Jacqui, how much more time are we looking at -- you said it's a 24-hour system, usually, but how much more time are we looking at to have to deal with this sort of weather?
JERAS: Well, like I said, through tomorrow we're looking at improving conditions. As you head later into the winter months, you know, the less likely you are to see severe weather.
But you can have a tornado any month of the year across the United States. We've had them recorded. Now where Gary is in Mossy Grove, I did talk to the National Weather Service there about an hour ago. And they said they do suspect it was likely a tornado. The meteorologists are out on the scene right now assessing the damage, and they expect within the next hour to confirm that it was likely a tornado and they'll let us know where it stands on the Fujita scale between an F-0 and F-5. So we know the damage of the wind gusts that were there.
Now also we know there was a tornado watch in place for Eastern Tennessee, and there was a warning in effect, a tornado warning, for Morgan County. But not everybody always hears those... NEVILLE: I was going to say -- but -- and we always hear -- we see the flashing of the local news, "tornado watch, " "tornado warning." Should we take these a little more seriously?
JERAS: You need to take them very seriously. The advanced time now by the National Weather Service on average is about 20 minutes. So often, you'll have 20 minutes to get where you need be. But once you hear those warnings go off, you really want to get to the basement or the lowest level of your home.
NEVILLE: And not in the car trying to drive away from the area?
JERAS: No, and we heard those people who died in that car. a car is one of the worst places to be. They just -- tornadoes can just pick up a car and throw it, you know, dozens of feet from the place.
Now if you don't have sirens in your area, because not everybody actually them. The more rural you are, the less chance is that you'll have sirens go off in your area.
This little instrument that I have here, this is called a NOAA weather radio, and you can purchase it at almost any electronics store like a RadioShack. And this will go off for your county if there's a warning or a watch in your area. It includes winter storms as well flash flooding and tornadoes. People may say, Well, this goes off all night long if I leave this thing on. And there are dozens of counties in my warning area. I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night for a warning if it's not my county. If you spend a little bit more money, closer to $70, you can get on these were you can program them only to your specific county.
NEVILLE: Right.
JERAS: It will only go off in your home for a watch or warning. So this is one of the best investments that you can make to keep yourself safe.
NEVILLE: Keep your family safe.
JERAS: Exactly.
NEVILLE: Jacqui, this type of weather, when it occurs, everyone asks about El Nino, and what, if anything, it has to do with the storm system?
JERAS: We've had a typical El Nino pattern, actually, the last several weeks across the southern tier of the country. We get what we call a subtropical jet. And storm systems travel along that jet stream. So the last couple of weeks, for example, here in the Atlanta area, where it's been so cloudy and so dreary and so wet, this is due a lot to El Nino. And that western storm we just had that brought up to five feet of snow in the Sierra Nevadas that more indicative of an El Nino-type storm. So the southern half of the country is the place that see the most active weather into the winter season. So between now and February, we expect to see more active weather.
NEVILLE: Jacqui Jeras, thank you for being here on TALKBACK LIVE today.
JERAS: You're welcome.
NEVILLE: And of course, Gary Tuchman, thank you for your report from Mossy Grove.
And coming up next, did police jeopardize the case against suspected sniper John Lee Malvo? Find out why his lawyers say Malvo's statements to police should never be heard in a courtroom.
I want to know what you're thinking. Give me a call at 1-800- 310-4CNN. Or you can e-mail me talkback@cnn.com.
We're back in a moment. Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: Today on TALKBACK LIVE attorneys for accused sniper John Malvo say police bungled. Now could some of the evidence be barred from court?
Also, allegations of rape and a royal cover-up plague the British Monarchy.
And could Saddam Hussein unleash a pox on his enemies?
Meet the author of "The Demon in the Freezer."
The talk continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
A source close to the sniper probe says John Lee Malvo told investigators he was the triggerman in a number of shootings. The 17- year-old faces first degree murder charges, and the death penalty in Fairfax, Virginia. But Malvo's attorneys want his statement suppressed at his trial. They say police questioned Malvo before he had access to a court-appointed guardian.
Joining me now with the latest is CNN's Patty Davis.
And Patty, first of all what did Malvo say during the interrogation?
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're told by a senior source that Malvo was indeed very talkative. In addition to saying he took part in some of those shootings, pulling the trigger in fact for the shooting of Linda Franklin. The FBI analyst at the Home Depot in Falls Church, Virginia, he apparently told investigators these sniper shooting were a military style operation and he and his partner communicated by walkie-talkies. And you'll recall, that there were walkie-talkies found in the car that he and Muhammad were arrested in October 24. Now, his court-appointed lawyer says that the questioning took place over seven to eight hours Thursday night into Friday morning without an attorney present. And as you said, he says he will move to have any incriminating statements from Malvo suppressed -- Arthel.
NEVILLE: What's the status of that process? Do you know, Patty?
DAVIS: Well, this is working through the court process right now. So it will take another court hearing for that to happen. But he says he intends to make that move.
NEVILLE: OK, thanks a lot, Patty Davis, for that report.
And joining us now to guide us through this legal haze is criminal defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt and Tom Fenton, president of Judicial Watch.
Hello, Tom and Jeralyn. Welcome to both of you, nice to see both of you again.
JERALYN MERRITT, ATTORNEY: Hi.
TOM FENTON, PRESIDENT, JUDICIAL WATCH: Hi.
NEVILLE: And Jeralyn, I'm going to start with you today. What do Malvo's lawyers need to do to keep Malvo's statements out of the courtroom?
MERRITT: They have to file a motion to suppress the statement. And I think it has a good chance of being successful, because in Virginia, as in many states, you cannot interrogate a juvenile in the absence of their parents. Now, Malvo doesn't have parents available. So the court appointed what is called a guardian add litum (ph) to protect his interest. The guardian ad litum (ph) says he went to the jail, he asked to be present at the questioning. They said they'd pass it on to Malvo, and then they made him leave the building. So this questioning was in direct violation of this juvenile's rights, and you also have the fact he was questioned without an attorney present.
NEVILLE: OK, but now if he waived his right to an attorney, then there is the right to the question him. Correct?
MERRITT: They don't have the right to question him in the absence of a guardian ad litum (ph), for the same reason they're not allowed to vote, not allowed to marry, not allowed own property. They're considered not old enough to be interrogated in the absence of a parent or guardian.
NEVILLE: Now, Tom, I read that there is no constitutional right for a parent to consult with their child if he or she is under age?
FENTON: Well, that's right. And in this instance, the guardian hadn't technically been appointed yet. And the guardian quoted in "The Washington Post" in today's edition as saying, I went to the building knowing I wouldn't get in. He essentially went there to see if he could throw a monkey wrench into the investigation. He hadn't been appointed yet, he no standing, which has hurt any rights on behalf of Malvo.
The question for the police is and the question judge is going to be did the police cross the T's and dot the I's? Did they make Mr. Malvo aware of his rights? Did he waive his rights? And if he did, these statements are going to be admissible, despite the screams of the defense attorney. But the defense attorney has a tough game now, because their client has admitted to shooting individuals, shooting a little boy in the stomach, and the defense attorney's obviously going to try to suppress this. I don't think they will succeed, and if they do, I don't think will be in the interests of justice.
NEVILLE: Now Tom, you mentioned that police have to prove they crossed their T's and dotted their I's. I want know how difficult or easy will that be to prove?
Hold that thought for me because I have to take a break right now. I want to remind everybody that later this hour Richard Preston, author of "The Demon In The Freezer," will tell us why he wants his family vaccinated against smallpox.
And when he's finished, you'll be ready to answer our "Question of the Day" at cnn.com/talkback. Should the vaccine be made available to anyone who wants it? Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SENIOR MARKET CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler at the New York Stock Exchange, were stocks are taking it on the chin here. The Dow Industrials hitting session lows. One problem there, stock of Hewlett-Packard is down better than $2. The company's president, Michael Capellas, is leaving. Reports are he might head up WorldCom, which has been struggling in bankruptcy court protection.
Nasdaq too sharply lower. Technology stocks very weak there. That's the latest from Wall Street.
TALKBACK LIVE continues now.
NEVILLE: Now, Sandra (ph) from Houston, Texas, I want you to tell me what you said during the break.
SANDRA: I just said that this is a minor, and you have all of these adults, and they accepted his testimony, and they should have had the proper authorities there when they accepted his testimony. It was not -- they didn't have legal representation for him, and he did not have -- he's a minor. He didn't have a guardian present, and with all of these adults, he should have had someone there handling what they should have been doing for this minor.
NEVILLE: Thank you for standing up and speaking out.
Listen everybody, I want to welcome you back to the show. We're talking with defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt and Judicial Watch president Tom Fenton about the sniper case.
And Tom, before we went to break, you mentioned that police have to prove that they dotted their I's and crossed their T's when interrogating Malvo, which is what Sandra is addressing here.
How easy or difficult will it be to prove they did just that?
FENTON: Well, it can be as easy as coming up with a piece of paper with John Malvo's signature on it saying he's aware of his rights and waiving them, vis-a-vis having an attorney present, or they can have the officers testify or -- I don't know if there's videotape or oral recording -- audio recording of this investigation questioning, but obviously, that would show whether or not it was coerced or not.
NEVILLE: OK, Jeralyn, I want to talk to you about that in a second. Let me let Terrel (ph) speak out. You said something regarding this very matter though?
TERREL: Yes. I believe that we should allow the -- this judicial system says we have the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. So, I believe that we should allow this to be -- let a verdict come down from a jury. Not a verdict in the media, but a verdict in a court of law.
NEVILLE: So getting to the point here, though, Terrel, do you think that even though -- and Jeralyn and hang in there with me on this one as well, Jeralyn, because even though Malvo's attorneys are going to fight to keep any statements out of the court for fear of undermining his process to a fair trial, Terrel in the audience is saying, It's too late for that. Is that what you're saying, basically?
TERREL: Am I saying it's too late to...
NEVILLE: For him to get a fair trial, because these statements are out there. They're floating around and now it's going to stick in everybody's head?
TERREL: Well, I'm not going to say that because the media's going to do their job. But what I am saying is that I don't believe -- I believe this should be suppressed, this statement, because he a minor, according to the rules of law, from what I understand, it should be suppressed. It should not allowed.
NEVILLE: OK, Jeralyn, you heard Terrel speak out. Again, some folks are saying...
MERRITT: He's right. Arthel, he's right. I mean, we should be trying cases in courtrooms, not in living rooms. And for the police and the prosecution to leak this kind of information about statements and evidence that they have generated during the case and to put their particular spin on it is extremely unfair. It's going to be hard to see an unbiased jury pool in Virginia. And while it isn't necessary that the jurors never had heard about the case, it is necessary that they haven't formed opinions that they can't put aside. And to prejudice the jury pool this way is not fair. I think the judge should slap a gag order on the prosecution in this case immediately that would cover these so-called unnamed senior officials that are speaking out.
NEVILLE: Tom, hang on for me...
FENTON: Sure.
NEVILLE: ...because I have an e-mail I want to share with everybody. It's from Paul in Louisiana. He says, "The illegal alien Malvo doesn't have any rights, since he is not a legal citizen. So how can any attorney cry "foul"?"
MERRITT: That's wrong. That's wrong. Legal and illegal aliens have the same rights, when it comes to a trial that other people have -- that citizens have. The Supreme Court has said so.
If he's convicted and he's an illegal alien, then he can be deported. But while he's in this country, if he's charged with a crime, he has the same rights that the constitution guarantees to all of us.
NEVILLE: But Tom, in the meantime, do Malvo's statements exclapate Muhammad?
FENTON: Well, the police, in terms of leading, need to be very careful there that they're not leaking material that could turns out to be inaccurate in the end. People are known to be making -- make false confessions and who knows about the relationship, whether Malvo is going to responsibility for crimes in order to help his buddy in crime Mr. Muhammad?
So the police have to be careful in their leaks. But the idea that prosecutors and police can't talk to the media about matters of public interest, I think, is poppycock. Only defense attorneys shouldn't be -- defense attorneys shouldn't be the only ones out there speaking.
NEVILLE: OK. Jeralyn Merritt and Tom Fenton, thank you both for joining us here on TALKBACK LIVE today.
MERRITT: Sure.
NEVILLE: We'll see you again, I'm sure.
And up next, the British royals are barely over wondering whether the butler did it. And now, an alleged rape and coverup is casting a shadow over the monarchy. I'll fill in the details right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody.
Urgent meetings were held today at the London residence of Prince Charles. It seems one of the prince's chief aides is accused of raping a male servant. In addition, the servant claims Prince Charles tried to hush it up. Tongues are wagging and it's all over the London papers.
So let's go to London and find out what we can from CNN's royal watcher and author of the book "Diana: Closely Guarded Secret." Robert Jobson is there.
Hi, Robert,
ROBERT JOBSON, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: Hello there.
NEVILLE: Now Robert, the alleged rape happened in 1989. Why is the story resurfacing now?
JOBSON: Well it all comes down to the Paul Burrell trial where there was a tape which was found which Diana -- she had recorded, which was Paul Burrell -- during the Paul Burrell trial.
And what actually happened was this tape included allegations made by this royal servant and as a result it's come to light now. It's very, very damaging for the monarchy.
NEVILLE: And Paul Burrell is Princess Diana's former butler.
Listen, was this ever investigated at the time, this accused or alleged rape and what was the outcome of that investigation?
JOBSON: Well, there was an internal inquiry initially, which was carried out by Prince Charles' staff. They found there was no case to answer.
But the police only became involved when Paul Burrell, the royal butler, case came to -- was being investigated by police and as a result they then carried out a full investigation, which was actually concluded in February this year.
Since then, there's been, police have been to visit this alleged rape victim twice and it was only actually served to the newspapers this weekend that the allegations have taken on a world and mind of their own, really.
NEVILLE: So let's clarify something. Did the investigation find that the alleged rape did not occur?
JOBSON: No. The investigation said there was not enough evidence for it to be brought to court. In Britain, basically what happens is the police will carry out a full investigation, they will pass all their information to Crown Prosecution Service. Once that evidence is assessed, then it's decided whether there will be a court case.
In this instance, they decided there was not to be a court case.
NEVILLE: OK. The accused says the victim, George Smith, an unreliable alcoholic. What do we know about George Smith? JOBSON: Well, George Smith was very popular with the princess of Wales. He was a valet to the Prince of Wales. He's a former veteran of the footman's war. He was -- accompanied the prince and princess on royal tours abroad. And actually from people that I've spoken to, think he was a decent guy. He was married with a couple of children. And these allegations led to a major investigation, as we've seen.
But what actually happened after this alleged incident is that Paul went to George Smith, had a breakdown, ended up in hospital and it was whilst he was in hospital suffering from emotional stress that the princess went to visit him and made a recording, on which the first allegations were first made.
NEVILLE: Now there are allegations that Prince Charles hushed this whole situation up. Is there any proof of that or any suggestion that he might have done anything illegally?
JOBSON: Well, that's the big crux this one, really. My understanding is that they carried out an internal change, palace inquiry, and did not report it to the police. Now, by not reporting to the police, you could be culpable of perverting the course of justice, which is a very damaging and serious allegation to be made against the prince of Wales.
I think at best we're not dealing with conspiracy here. I think we're dealing with a shoddy investigation. What should have happened is it should have been reported to the police immediately. Such is the severity of this allegation, and it wasn't. I think that's the key to the whole thing, really.
NEVILLE: And what's going to happen with that part of the story? Do you know?
JOBSON: Well, at the moment, Scotland Yard over here is saying that the inquiry will not be reopened. They believe that there is not enough evidence. But, obviously, with the fact that George Smith has come forward and spoken publicly to a newspaper and waived his rights to anonymity, it's quite a serious situation because they must now, I would think, have to go back and question him.
Also the business of the tape. Where is this tape? The very fact that Paul Burrell was the last person to see it, and that lady Sarah McCaucadell (ph), Diana's sister, swore on oath that she gave it to him raises serious questions about Paul Burrell as well. So I think the police will, perhaps, informally carry out their own internal inquiries.
NEVILLE; Now, Smith was interviewed by the "Daily Mirror" yesterday I understand. Is this the first time he publicly told this story, and was he paid for that story?
JOBSON: He actually was interviewed by "The Mirror" on Sunday, which is quite a reputable newspaper in Britain. And that -- I don't know if he was paid any money, but I would be surprised if he wasn't, because he has actually received a payoff of something like $50,000 from the Prince of Wales' office, which won't go very far. And that payment was seen, if you like, as part of this cover-up.
But Sir James' Palace adamant there has been no cover-up. But this Royalgate simple won't go away, I think.
NEVILLE: Robert Jobson, thank you very much for joining us here today on TALKBACK LIVE.
And Up next, are we all in danger from the demon in the freezer? Ask author Richard Preston why he's so worried about smallpox and thinks you should be, too.
TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back to TALKBACK LIVE everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
It wasn't that long ago that most of us thought smallpox had been eradicated from the face of the Earth. Vaccinations against the deforming and often deadly disease ended in the early '70s.
Well now we know the smallpox virus is alive and well, but few remember its devastating effects. According to our next guest, smallpox could become bioterrorism's favorite weapon. Author Richard Preston's latest best-seller is "The Demon in the Freezer," and it is one scary book. Welcome, Richard Preston.
RICHARD PRESTON, AUTHOR: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Hello.
OK, your bio says that whatever you write about eerily becomes the news. Most recently you wrote about weapons grade anthrax. If, in fact, you have a knack for fatal foreshadowing or forecasting, where do you think this ability comes from?
PRESTON: Well it may well be I love to talk with sources inside the government who tells me -- they tell me what's really going on, and my feeling for quite some time now is that biological weapons, especially smallpox, are a very big issue on the world stage right now.
You know, the United States is very likely to go to war with Iraq. And of the weapons that Saddam Hussein has, probably the most scary and most powerful one may very well be smallpox, the virus. So would Iraq be crazy enough to release smallpox in a terror attack on the U.S., in the context of a war? I don't think anybody can plum the mind of somebody like Saddam, but it's certainly something that this country has to be ready for.
NEVILLE: And having said that, do you think everyone should be vaccinated against smallpox?
PRESTON: Well, this is a great question. The vaccine carries a relatively high risk of side effects. And the experts are telling me that maybe 20 to 25 percent of the American population ought not to have the vaccine, that it doesn't come up to modern safety standards.
My own feeling about this is that we probably ought to start liminating -- you know, limited vaccinations of some people, emergency workers. And, as I've said, I would probably give it to my own family.
NEVILLE: You would. Now, let's go back to that 25 -- or 20 percent of the population that cannot accept this vaccine. Do you know why?
PRESTON: Well, it's got a very bad rate of reactions. You know, most people over the age of 30 have a little scar in their upper arm about the size of a nickel. That's the smallpox vaccination scar that you got in childhood. However, the vaccine wears off starting about five years later. So today, virtually nobody is fully protected against smallpox.
It could travel very fast our society. The concern, let me try to explain this. I'm going to be pretty graphic here, but this is something that people need to know about. Smallpox, some people think it's maybe like a bad version of chicken pox. Not. There are two major types of the disease that are fatal.
One is the classical smallpox in which the skin blisters up all over the body, particularly on the face. If these blisters or pustules (ph) join together in sheaths, the virus is essentially strip the skin off the body, and you will probably die.
There is another form, extreme smallpox, which is also known as bloody small pox or hemorrhagic. And in this type, the skin remains relatively smooth, it doesn't blister up. But you get a corrugated effect in the skin that is known by doctors as the crepe rubber skin. The whites of the eyes develop blood blisters all over them and then the skin can slip off the body in sheets while you get hemorrhages from all the natural openings of the body.
Now if a virus like this was going around. It's highly contagious. It travels in the air from person to person. It comes out of victims' mouth as they speak or as they cough. It can fill a hospital. It can spread very rapidly, like wildfire in medical settings. You've got a real problem on your hands if smallpox starts to go around.
I am not thoroughly convinced that our government takes this seriously or has adequate plans now in place.
NEVILLE: I have to take a break right now but I have many, many more questions for you. So if you would stick around for us, I'm going to ask you questions, and I want to take your questions as well.
So go ahead and give me a call at 1-800-310-4cnn or e-mail me at talkback@cnn.com and we're back in a moment continuing this conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. We're talking with Richard Preston, author of "The Demon in the Freezer." And before we go any further with Richard Preston, I want to get Kathy (ph) to go ahead and ask your question.
KATHY: I would like to know -- everyone's talking about the side effects of the vaccination. What exactly are the side effects of the vaccination?
PRESTON: OK, Kathy. That's a good question.
The vaccine is an old vaccine. It was actually invented in 1796 and Thomas Jefferson, as a matter of fact, highly recommended it to the American people. But it's biotechnology that's 200 years old. And it is a live virus called vaccinia. It's a mild virus.
When you become infected with it, your immune system goes into a state of screaming alarm and can then fight off an attack by smallpox. But the problem is that because the vaccine is a live virus, it can make some people sick who have depressed immune systems. And in our modern world, many people have depressed immune systems for any number of reasons. They may be having cancer chemotherapy, they may be elderly, they may be very young kids. People who are HIV positive, whether they know it or not. People who have had organ transplants, and people who have eczema, a history of eczema, even in their families.
So there's just a laundry list of people who may have a bad reaction to the vaccine. It's not to say that they will, but the bad reaction to the vaccine can be pretty awful. And in some instances, it can actually kill you with a disease that looks a good deal like smallpox.
NEVILLE: I have an e-mail coming in right now. Let's share that everybody. From Tom in California who says, "What impact could a terror attack of the smallpox virus have on the U.S. and world economy?"
PRESTON: I think that the experts who think about these things and do computer models of the spread of the virus, disagree about how fast it would spread. Some feel it could spread very rapidly. Others, maybe not so fast. But the one certain effect it would have, is great economic disruption.
People would not want to travel. Public transportation systems would be shut down. International borders could end up being closed very quickly. In the past, when there were smallpox outbreaks, what typically happened was the country that was experiencing the outbreak absolutely would have to shut itself off from the rest of the world.
Now, in the modern world, that could be a bad thing for developed economies, which is one reason, I think, why some countries, perhaps Iraq, would even consider the use of smallpox as a weapon. Or why it might be attractive to terrorists. After all...
NEVILLE: Richard -- Richard, quickly, if Iraq has smallpox, would the U.N. weapons inspectors be able to find it?
PRESTON: Well, they ransacked the country before. There's considerable circumstantial evidence that Iraq has smallpox, but they didn't find any. It's easy -- you can hide a little vial of it in a freezer and you'd never find it.
NEVILLE: Richard Preston, thank you so much for joining us today. Those were some serious statements you made here.
Listen, you've heard the man. Next, answer our "Question of the Day." Should smallpox vaccinations be made available to anyone who wants them? We'll hear from you after the break.
TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. It's time for our question of the day.
We have just heard smallpox could become a bioterrorist most effective weapon. So should the vaccine be available to anyone who wants it? I want to know what you think and I'm going to start with Claudia (ph) from Missouri.
CLAUDIA: Hi. I definitely think is should. I would want the opportunity to have it rather than to face the consequences that Mr. Preston talked about.
NEVILLE: Thank you very much. We are out of time.
Before we go, I want to come over here and say hello to Dan (ph), a veteran in our audience. Thank you very much, sir.
And Richie (ph) over there as well. We see you and we want to thank all of our veterans and thanks to everybody for watching. That is our show for today. I'm Arthel Neville.
Don't forget, as I just said, it's Veterans Day and a good day to thank the veterans for serving this country. We definitely appreciate them.
"INSIDE POLITICS" up next.
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