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American Morning
Threats to Cities
Aired November 18, 2002 - 07:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Security officials in Britain believe they have foiled a terrorist attack. Three men under arrest, suspected of planning to release poison gas in a London subway. The case shows how vulnerable big and crowded cities can be to terrorism.
Meanwhile, here at home, despite new threats, the nation's threat level is unchanged -- still remains at yellow. How useful is the alert system, especially for those who directly protect us, our police departments across the country?
Also, is local law enforcement getting enough information from the federal level?
We're going to talk about that from two different perspectives. The chiefs of two big city departments; first in Baltimore, Commissioner Edward Norris is our first guest today.
Commissioner, good morning to you.
EDWARD NORRIS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMM.: Good morning.
HEMMER: I want to be pretty specific about your position. You do not believe the cooperation at the federal level is enough with the local level. Tell us why not.
NORRIS: Well, just what was in your teaser, I don't need to know if the alert is yellow or orange; I need to know why, because this is exactly the problem. If bombs, bullets, nuclear bio, it's going to be delivered by people, I need to know more human intelligence.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: OK, now when a warning -- I apologize for the interruption. When a warning or a threat goes out, how is it relayed to you then in terms of what specifics you believe you need to know? Is it a complete blank page? It just says, here it is right now, and this is what we're looking at, but there are no specifics after that?
NORRIS: Very often that is the case, and that's a big problem. We don't need to know sources or methods, but we need a little more of specifically what the threat is.
HEMMER: OK, I'm trying to understand this. What would you like to hear from the feds then?
NORRIS: I'd like to know exactly who they're working on my city every day. I'd like to know what the threat is, how many al Qaeda suspected members we have here, what cases they're working on.
Big departments have intelligence divisions. We're working on the same people very often, and it's a tremendous waste of resources.
And we had the hospital threat. Johns Hopkins called us early in the morning. I had no information, other than what I saw on the news.
HEMMER: What would you like to know then?
NORRIS: I'd like every major city chief in America to be cleared, so we can talk daily with our FBI counterparts to know exactly what's happening in this country every single day.
HEMMER: OK, now, is there a chance, though, that if there are ongoing investigations, on perhaps sleeper cells that we've talked about in upstate New York or the state of Washington, they actually may be perhaps surrendering part of that investigation if they indeed allow you and other members of your department to get this information? Is that a possibility there, though?
NORRIS: Yes, and Robert Hanssen had a clearance, too. Yes, it is a possibility, but the fact is, we are the nation's homeland security. We need the information. It's always a risk. But the fact is, I need it. My entire department doesn't need it. The 4,000 people who work for me don't need it, just me, maybe my intelligence commander and a select few. It's a risk you take, but I think it's necessary.
HEMMER: All right, listen, hang on one second, Commissioner Norris there in Baltimore. I want to get a different perspective on this right now.
Here in New York City, more on the issue from the man who runs the police department here, Ray Kelly.
Commissioner, good morning to you -- nice to see you.
RAY KELLY, N.Y. CITY POLICE COMM.: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: You heard about the complaints in Baltimore. A fair complaint or not?
KELLY: Well, I can only talk about New York City, and we have I think a very free flow of information from the federal authorities, who work closely here. We're in a little different situation perhaps. We've been targeted here four times in the last decade.
I think what we do need from the federal government is additional resources. We've re-deployed a thousand police officers for counterterrorism duties. Obviously that's a major expense, and we'd like to see some reimbursement from the federal government.
But as far as information is concerned, we're getting I think every bit of information that we need. A more fundamental issue is what the nation is getting as far as intelligence is concerned. HEMMER: Listen to what Tom Ridge told Wolf Blitzer yesterday, specifically about places like New York City and Washington -- here's Tom Ridge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The threats are threats we've heard before. The conditions to avoid future terrorist acts are conditions we've heard before. And we know that New York and Washington continue to be potential targets for another attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That's your city. He mentioned it; you just backed it up.
Take me outside of New York then. What could folks in Baltimore be told from the federal level down to that local level that would help ease the burden right now with the concern that Commissioner Norris is talking about?
KELLY: Well, of course, I'm focused on New York.
HEMMER: Understood.
KELLY: And I think Chief Norris' point of sharing information with big city police chiefs is a good one. I mean, that's valid. But our position here in New York is the same as Governor Ridge's, that we're very high on the target list. New York and Washington consistently come up as the No. 1 and 2 targets in this so-called chatter that we talk about.
HEMMER: Do you get enough information then, here in New York City, from the feds when a warning goes out?
KELLY: We get the information that they have. And again, that is somewhat spotty, no question about it. I don't really think that they're holding back information...
HEMMER: So, you would like to get more if you could, but you're suggesting perhaps that they're giving you as much as they can at that point.
KELLY: Yes, yes. Again, I think there's a more fundamental issue of what we're getting as a nation. Our intelligence gathering entities overseas or wherever are certainly a challenge these days, but we, in my judgment, don't have enough information as a country.
But as far as what they have, what the FBI has or the CIA has, we're getting that information, to the best of my knowledge.
HEMMER: It appears to me that we're all learning as we go through this.
KELLY: Very true. HEMMER: And I also think that within time, that we should be able to satisfy a lot more folks down the road, like the commissioner in Baltimore. Agreed or not?
KELLY: Agreed.
HEMMER: Thank you, Commissioner Kelly; Commissioner Norris in Baltimore as well, appreciate your time this morning on this topic.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired November 18, 2002 - 07:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Security officials in Britain believe they have foiled a terrorist attack. Three men under arrest, suspected of planning to release poison gas in a London subway. The case shows how vulnerable big and crowded cities can be to terrorism.
Meanwhile, here at home, despite new threats, the nation's threat level is unchanged -- still remains at yellow. How useful is the alert system, especially for those who directly protect us, our police departments across the country?
Also, is local law enforcement getting enough information from the federal level?
We're going to talk about that from two different perspectives. The chiefs of two big city departments; first in Baltimore, Commissioner Edward Norris is our first guest today.
Commissioner, good morning to you.
EDWARD NORRIS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMM.: Good morning.
HEMMER: I want to be pretty specific about your position. You do not believe the cooperation at the federal level is enough with the local level. Tell us why not.
NORRIS: Well, just what was in your teaser, I don't need to know if the alert is yellow or orange; I need to know why, because this is exactly the problem. If bombs, bullets, nuclear bio, it's going to be delivered by people, I need to know more human intelligence.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: OK, now when a warning -- I apologize for the interruption. When a warning or a threat goes out, how is it relayed to you then in terms of what specifics you believe you need to know? Is it a complete blank page? It just says, here it is right now, and this is what we're looking at, but there are no specifics after that?
NORRIS: Very often that is the case, and that's a big problem. We don't need to know sources or methods, but we need a little more of specifically what the threat is.
HEMMER: OK, I'm trying to understand this. What would you like to hear from the feds then?
NORRIS: I'd like to know exactly who they're working on my city every day. I'd like to know what the threat is, how many al Qaeda suspected members we have here, what cases they're working on.
Big departments have intelligence divisions. We're working on the same people very often, and it's a tremendous waste of resources.
And we had the hospital threat. Johns Hopkins called us early in the morning. I had no information, other than what I saw on the news.
HEMMER: What would you like to know then?
NORRIS: I'd like every major city chief in America to be cleared, so we can talk daily with our FBI counterparts to know exactly what's happening in this country every single day.
HEMMER: OK, now, is there a chance, though, that if there are ongoing investigations, on perhaps sleeper cells that we've talked about in upstate New York or the state of Washington, they actually may be perhaps surrendering part of that investigation if they indeed allow you and other members of your department to get this information? Is that a possibility there, though?
NORRIS: Yes, and Robert Hanssen had a clearance, too. Yes, it is a possibility, but the fact is, we are the nation's homeland security. We need the information. It's always a risk. But the fact is, I need it. My entire department doesn't need it. The 4,000 people who work for me don't need it, just me, maybe my intelligence commander and a select few. It's a risk you take, but I think it's necessary.
HEMMER: All right, listen, hang on one second, Commissioner Norris there in Baltimore. I want to get a different perspective on this right now.
Here in New York City, more on the issue from the man who runs the police department here, Ray Kelly.
Commissioner, good morning to you -- nice to see you.
RAY KELLY, N.Y. CITY POLICE COMM.: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: You heard about the complaints in Baltimore. A fair complaint or not?
KELLY: Well, I can only talk about New York City, and we have I think a very free flow of information from the federal authorities, who work closely here. We're in a little different situation perhaps. We've been targeted here four times in the last decade.
I think what we do need from the federal government is additional resources. We've re-deployed a thousand police officers for counterterrorism duties. Obviously that's a major expense, and we'd like to see some reimbursement from the federal government.
But as far as information is concerned, we're getting I think every bit of information that we need. A more fundamental issue is what the nation is getting as far as intelligence is concerned. HEMMER: Listen to what Tom Ridge told Wolf Blitzer yesterday, specifically about places like New York City and Washington -- here's Tom Ridge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The threats are threats we've heard before. The conditions to avoid future terrorist acts are conditions we've heard before. And we know that New York and Washington continue to be potential targets for another attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That's your city. He mentioned it; you just backed it up.
Take me outside of New York then. What could folks in Baltimore be told from the federal level down to that local level that would help ease the burden right now with the concern that Commissioner Norris is talking about?
KELLY: Well, of course, I'm focused on New York.
HEMMER: Understood.
KELLY: And I think Chief Norris' point of sharing information with big city police chiefs is a good one. I mean, that's valid. But our position here in New York is the same as Governor Ridge's, that we're very high on the target list. New York and Washington consistently come up as the No. 1 and 2 targets in this so-called chatter that we talk about.
HEMMER: Do you get enough information then, here in New York City, from the feds when a warning goes out?
KELLY: We get the information that they have. And again, that is somewhat spotty, no question about it. I don't really think that they're holding back information...
HEMMER: So, you would like to get more if you could, but you're suggesting perhaps that they're giving you as much as they can at that point.
KELLY: Yes, yes. Again, I think there's a more fundamental issue of what we're getting as a nation. Our intelligence gathering entities overseas or wherever are certainly a challenge these days, but we, in my judgment, don't have enough information as a country.
But as far as what they have, what the FBI has or the CIA has, we're getting that information, to the best of my knowledge.
HEMMER: It appears to me that we're all learning as we go through this.
KELLY: Very true. HEMMER: And I also think that within time, that we should be able to satisfy a lot more folks down the road, like the commissioner in Baltimore. Agreed or not?
KELLY: Agreed.
HEMMER: Thank you, Commissioner Kelly; Commissioner Norris in Baltimore as well, appreciate your time this morning on this topic.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
