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CNN Live Today

Tiger's Take

Aired November 19, 2002 - 10:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We've been mentioning the story throughout the hour, Tiger's take on the battle of the sexes at Augusta National Golf Club. The club which hosts the marquee tournament, the Masters, does not admit women as members, it vows it will not do so at any time soon.
Well, "The New York Times" has called on Tiger Woods to boycott the Masters this year, but he has sidestepped that challenge. Instead, he issues this quote -- saying -- "I think there should be women members, but it's not up to me. I don't have voting rights. I'm just an honorary member." Tiger's comments are rippling across sports radio today, and, in fact that was the topic on Atlanta's sports radio show 790 The Zone. Steak Shapiro, the host, one of the host, joining us by phone.

Steak, good morning.

STEAK SHAPIRO, SPORTS TALK RADIO HOST: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Are your listeners reacting like our CNN viewers are?

SHAPIRO: Yes, I mean, this is obviously a hot topic, because it's not just a sports issue, it's a social issue, and it's a heated issue, particularly in the south, where Augusta and Atlanta are less than an hour or so away. You're hearing both sides of it. I think it's a hot issue because they're asking Tiger Woods to step forward. What I find about Augusta is men or women, they just want this topic to go away already. I don't think of all the causes women are going after, Augusta is in the top 100 of the things they're fighting for. You want to look at Fortune 500 companies, hiring practice, all those things, more power to you.

I get the sense from women and men, that a few hundred men that have this club in Augusta is not enough to really motivate people to think that this is a major issue. It is not like race. It is -- there are many examples of female and male private only club, whether it's sororities or fraternities, the Girl Scouts of America, private universities that are all female, and I think people for the most part look at Augusta as similar.

KAGAN: You say it's not like race. Some of our viewers would disagree. Joanne wrote in from North Park, Florida. She is calling on Tiger to boycott, and she says, "He has to remember how it felt when he, too, was not initially welcomed into golf because of the color of his skin." She is saying if he does the right thing, and she's saying, if he doesn't, he will no longer be a role model for her family. SHAPIRO: You know, Tiger -- I understand why people are asking Tiger to take any social cause up that they believe in. He is the most recognizable and the most famous athlete in the world. Let's talk about the fact what is different about this than a women's university, than a woman trying to join a fraternity, than a guy trying to get into a sorority. The fact is, women play Augusta, thousands of rounds a year, women are welcome at the Masters. I just think Of all the causes to take up, Martha Burk is shoving this thing down people's throats.

What I hear more often than not, is let's fight for things that matter, and a couple of stodgy men whose average age is 76 years old, who choose to spend time with each other, a few hundred of them, to me is not worthy of the attention it's creating. "The New York Times" probably doesn't know about that club and about this situation, and you know, Tiger has -- he's backed away from social causes that may have had a lot more impact.

He is not going to get involved here in this fray with the Masters, and I think he's going to stay clear of it. It's his favorite tournament in the world to play. It's the one tournament he wants to win more than any other.

KAGAN: Also trying to make history here.

SHAPIRO: Well, making history by boycotting it.

KAGAN: No, no, making history by winning.

SHAPIRO: Yes, no question, and, look, you know, the history of discrimination was -- as it relates to African-Americans is well documented. 1990, the first African-American member, nobody should be proud of that at Augusta, but there is a distinction, and again, I'll point to, if a male tries to get in an all-female college, it doesn't happen. The same examples, I don't want to be redundant, but Girl Scouts, fraternities, sororities, there are plenty examples, and there's women's only clubs in Canada, golf clubs as well. I don't think this is a social issue that Martha Burk is trying to create, and I'm hearing that -- men are fired up. Why can't we have our last bastion here?

KAGAN: You bring our Martha Burk, but I think Hootie Johnson, the chairman of Augusta National, hasn't helped his cause either in the way he's handled it, and probably shouldn't go into the public relations business. He spoke not that long ago about this, and let's listen in to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOOTIE JOHNSON, CHMN., AUGUSTA NATIONAL: Clubs all across America, these would include junior leagues, sororities, fraternity, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and countless others. And we all have a moral and legal right to organize our clubs the way we wish. We'll stand firmly behind our traditions and our rights to make our own policies, and we also are working on the 2003 Masters, which we believe will be one of our most exciting. We'll see if Tiger Woods can win three in a row.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: It's going to be exciting, Steak. Do you think we'll see a lot of protesters? I think Jesse Jackson announced even announced over the weekend he's going to be leading protesters outside the gates of Augusta.

SHAPIRO: You bring up a great point in terms of PR. I know a few members. I don't know why they would want to associate with a fellow like me, but I do know a few members of Augusta. They are not happy with the way it's been handled. It has become a media circus.

And if you know anything about this club, The last thing they want is this kind of media attention. Hootie Johnson is like an animal that you poked him with a stick and he came back ferocious. He could have quieted down by saying, we're considering female members. He chose to go on the attack, and you're right, the last thing Augusta wants is this kind of national publicity, which will be. It's going to be a circus at the Masters.

And if you know anything, again, about that atmosphere, that is supposed to be the serene haven of golf, and having protesters outside and making this a national issue is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable, and it's back -- it's taken on a life of its own, but Hootie Johnson, keep this in mind, he's got a great track record in the civil rights movement, he's got a great track record of hiring females in his -- around his corporation. He's got a great record, and that's one of the reasons why he reacted so vehemently to question it, and now you're left with Tiger Woods saying, man, oh, man, this has become an issue where they expect me to take a stand. It's not his your nature. You know that, Daryn, from covering him, he is not going to get involved in that fray.

KAGAN: Well, I think there's some legitimate arguments on either side, and perhaps everyone can agree that neither side, it's not like anyone picks their spokespeople, but it's good messages and the wrong messengers for each side.

Leon wants to jump in here real quickly.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Steak, hey, buddy, you mentioned the fact this could end up being a circus. You know how those folks there at that club hate that kind of a thing.

KAGAN: It's about the azaleas and the green.

HARRIS: And if Jesse Jackson has a demonstration out there, that also does detract away from that as well. What do you think CBS does about it at that particular point?

KAGAN: "The New York Times" is calling on CBS sports as well, saying that should not be broadcasting it.

HARRIS: She has used some very questionable tactics of going after and threatening members of Augusta, and their corporations, and CBS, you know, there are no sponsors at Augusta this year, because basically, Hootie Johnson said you won't go after our sponsors, because we're dropping all our sponsors, this is the most hallowed piece of television property. There's nothing like the Masters.

You remember on a couple of occasions, I know both of you follow it, where Gary McCord made a comment about the greens -- the bikini wax. He called a group of people a mob, and he wasn't welcome back there. You have to be careful to get a press credential for this tournament. There is too much money. It's too prestigious to risk losing being able to televise the tournament. I don't think CBS will go down that road.

And I also believe it's just where it's a sexy issue, I don't believe enough women in this country look at this club and say, this is something we have to take a hard stand on. If it was, CBS, I think they'll feel pressure, but I don't think it's the issue that Martha Burk wants to make it out to be. There's a lot of issues women should be fighting for, and I don't think membership to Augusta is one of them. I think CBS thinks they can ride out the storm, and maybe down the line there will be a female member. But Hootie Johnson says, I'm not going to be pressured into it.

KAGAN: I will just have to say on behalf of many of our female viewers who have written in via e-mail they would disagree with you.

SHAPIRO: They don't want to hear me tell them what they think.

KAGAN: It's both ways. There are some women who are writing in saying, hey, what's the big deal, but some women are saying, they do want Tiger to boycott it.

SHAPIRO: That's why we like good sports talk radio.

KAGAN: That's why you have the job that you do.

HARRIS: Way to go, Steak.

SHAPIRO: Great seeing you, guys.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 19, 2002 - 10:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We've been mentioning the story throughout the hour, Tiger's take on the battle of the sexes at Augusta National Golf Club. The club which hosts the marquee tournament, the Masters, does not admit women as members, it vows it will not do so at any time soon.
Well, "The New York Times" has called on Tiger Woods to boycott the Masters this year, but he has sidestepped that challenge. Instead, he issues this quote -- saying -- "I think there should be women members, but it's not up to me. I don't have voting rights. I'm just an honorary member." Tiger's comments are rippling across sports radio today, and, in fact that was the topic on Atlanta's sports radio show 790 The Zone. Steak Shapiro, the host, one of the host, joining us by phone.

Steak, good morning.

STEAK SHAPIRO, SPORTS TALK RADIO HOST: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Are your listeners reacting like our CNN viewers are?

SHAPIRO: Yes, I mean, this is obviously a hot topic, because it's not just a sports issue, it's a social issue, and it's a heated issue, particularly in the south, where Augusta and Atlanta are less than an hour or so away. You're hearing both sides of it. I think it's a hot issue because they're asking Tiger Woods to step forward. What I find about Augusta is men or women, they just want this topic to go away already. I don't think of all the causes women are going after, Augusta is in the top 100 of the things they're fighting for. You want to look at Fortune 500 companies, hiring practice, all those things, more power to you.

I get the sense from women and men, that a few hundred men that have this club in Augusta is not enough to really motivate people to think that this is a major issue. It is not like race. It is -- there are many examples of female and male private only club, whether it's sororities or fraternities, the Girl Scouts of America, private universities that are all female, and I think people for the most part look at Augusta as similar.

KAGAN: You say it's not like race. Some of our viewers would disagree. Joanne wrote in from North Park, Florida. She is calling on Tiger to boycott, and she says, "He has to remember how it felt when he, too, was not initially welcomed into golf because of the color of his skin." She is saying if he does the right thing, and she's saying, if he doesn't, he will no longer be a role model for her family. SHAPIRO: You know, Tiger -- I understand why people are asking Tiger to take any social cause up that they believe in. He is the most recognizable and the most famous athlete in the world. Let's talk about the fact what is different about this than a women's university, than a woman trying to join a fraternity, than a guy trying to get into a sorority. The fact is, women play Augusta, thousands of rounds a year, women are welcome at the Masters. I just think Of all the causes to take up, Martha Burk is shoving this thing down people's throats.

What I hear more often than not, is let's fight for things that matter, and a couple of stodgy men whose average age is 76 years old, who choose to spend time with each other, a few hundred of them, to me is not worthy of the attention it's creating. "The New York Times" probably doesn't know about that club and about this situation, and you know, Tiger has -- he's backed away from social causes that may have had a lot more impact.

He is not going to get involved here in this fray with the Masters, and I think he's going to stay clear of it. It's his favorite tournament in the world to play. It's the one tournament he wants to win more than any other.

KAGAN: Also trying to make history here.

SHAPIRO: Well, making history by boycotting it.

KAGAN: No, no, making history by winning.

SHAPIRO: Yes, no question, and, look, you know, the history of discrimination was -- as it relates to African-Americans is well documented. 1990, the first African-American member, nobody should be proud of that at Augusta, but there is a distinction, and again, I'll point to, if a male tries to get in an all-female college, it doesn't happen. The same examples, I don't want to be redundant, but Girl Scouts, fraternities, sororities, there are plenty examples, and there's women's only clubs in Canada, golf clubs as well. I don't think this is a social issue that Martha Burk is trying to create, and I'm hearing that -- men are fired up. Why can't we have our last bastion here?

KAGAN: You bring our Martha Burk, but I think Hootie Johnson, the chairman of Augusta National, hasn't helped his cause either in the way he's handled it, and probably shouldn't go into the public relations business. He spoke not that long ago about this, and let's listen in to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOOTIE JOHNSON, CHMN., AUGUSTA NATIONAL: Clubs all across America, these would include junior leagues, sororities, fraternity, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and countless others. And we all have a moral and legal right to organize our clubs the way we wish. We'll stand firmly behind our traditions and our rights to make our own policies, and we also are working on the 2003 Masters, which we believe will be one of our most exciting. We'll see if Tiger Woods can win three in a row.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: It's going to be exciting, Steak. Do you think we'll see a lot of protesters? I think Jesse Jackson announced even announced over the weekend he's going to be leading protesters outside the gates of Augusta.

SHAPIRO: You bring up a great point in terms of PR. I know a few members. I don't know why they would want to associate with a fellow like me, but I do know a few members of Augusta. They are not happy with the way it's been handled. It has become a media circus.

And if you know anything about this club, The last thing they want is this kind of media attention. Hootie Johnson is like an animal that you poked him with a stick and he came back ferocious. He could have quieted down by saying, we're considering female members. He chose to go on the attack, and you're right, the last thing Augusta wants is this kind of national publicity, which will be. It's going to be a circus at the Masters.

And if you know anything, again, about that atmosphere, that is supposed to be the serene haven of golf, and having protesters outside and making this a national issue is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable, and it's back -- it's taken on a life of its own, but Hootie Johnson, keep this in mind, he's got a great track record in the civil rights movement, he's got a great track record of hiring females in his -- around his corporation. He's got a great record, and that's one of the reasons why he reacted so vehemently to question it, and now you're left with Tiger Woods saying, man, oh, man, this has become an issue where they expect me to take a stand. It's not his your nature. You know that, Daryn, from covering him, he is not going to get involved in that fray.

KAGAN: Well, I think there's some legitimate arguments on either side, and perhaps everyone can agree that neither side, it's not like anyone picks their spokespeople, but it's good messages and the wrong messengers for each side.

Leon wants to jump in here real quickly.

LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Steak, hey, buddy, you mentioned the fact this could end up being a circus. You know how those folks there at that club hate that kind of a thing.

KAGAN: It's about the azaleas and the green.

HARRIS: And if Jesse Jackson has a demonstration out there, that also does detract away from that as well. What do you think CBS does about it at that particular point?

KAGAN: "The New York Times" is calling on CBS sports as well, saying that should not be broadcasting it.

HARRIS: She has used some very questionable tactics of going after and threatening members of Augusta, and their corporations, and CBS, you know, there are no sponsors at Augusta this year, because basically, Hootie Johnson said you won't go after our sponsors, because we're dropping all our sponsors, this is the most hallowed piece of television property. There's nothing like the Masters.

You remember on a couple of occasions, I know both of you follow it, where Gary McCord made a comment about the greens -- the bikini wax. He called a group of people a mob, and he wasn't welcome back there. You have to be careful to get a press credential for this tournament. There is too much money. It's too prestigious to risk losing being able to televise the tournament. I don't think CBS will go down that road.

And I also believe it's just where it's a sexy issue, I don't believe enough women in this country look at this club and say, this is something we have to take a hard stand on. If it was, CBS, I think they'll feel pressure, but I don't think it's the issue that Martha Burk wants to make it out to be. There's a lot of issues women should be fighting for, and I don't think membership to Augusta is one of them. I think CBS thinks they can ride out the storm, and maybe down the line there will be a female member. But Hootie Johnson says, I'm not going to be pressured into it.

KAGAN: I will just have to say on behalf of many of our female viewers who have written in via e-mail they would disagree with you.

SHAPIRO: They don't want to hear me tell them what they think.

KAGAN: It's both ways. There are some women who are writing in saying, hey, what's the big deal, but some women are saying, they do want Tiger to boycott it.

SHAPIRO: That's why we like good sports talk radio.

KAGAN: That's why you have the job that you do.

HARRIS: Way to go, Steak.

SHAPIRO: Great seeing you, guys.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com