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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
Where is Al Qaeda?; Inside the Prison Cell of John Lee Malvo
Aired November 21, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST: Good evening. I'm Paula Zahn, filling in for Connie Chung.
Tonight: new terror strikes, a big al Qaeda capture, and a rare glimpse at al Qaeda breeding grounds where Westerners dare not go.
ANNOUNCER: In search of al Qaeda: tracking hundreds of al Qaeda soldiers who seem to vanish into thin air. Where are they now and what are they doing?
John Lee Malvo, the teenage sniper suspect, we'll go behind prison walls and into his jail cell in Virginia.
She's a Palestinian-American and proud of her heritage. And it got her into trouble in school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YUSRA AWAWDEH, PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN: The dean goes, "Honey, the only flag you could represent in this school is the American flag."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: both sides of the controversy.
Does fast food put kids on the fast track to health problems? Some kids are taking matters into their own hands and McDonald's to court.
Love at 25th sight: the girl who got the final rose and "The Bachelor" no more. We'll answer the burning question: Is it really love?
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, sitting in for Connie Chung: Paula Zahn.
ZAHN: And good evening. Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
Tonight: several new developments from the front lines of the war on terror. A police officer in Kuwait pulled over two American soldiers today, shot one in the shoulder, the other in the face. They are both in stable condition tonight. Their attacker reportedly fled to Saudi Arabia.
The No. 2 man at the FBI sent out an e-mail saying he's -- quote -- "amazed and astounded" that anti-terror efforts have not proceeded more quickly. The e-mail also reminded FBI field offices to keep the war on terror as their top priority.
And, in Indonesia, police arrested the suspected mastermind of last month's nightclub bombing massacre in Bali.
And then there's this, a new report which suggests that al Qaeda is getting back on its feet and back to work. The PBS front-line report "In Search of Al Qaeda" took Western cameras into remote areas along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, where al Qaeda still manages to stay one step ahead of its pursuers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This home is demolished by the tribal leaders and the political administration. It is a demolished home of al Qaeda.
MARTIN SMITH, PBS REPORTER: He showed us this footage from a battle site in Wana in South Waziristan. Tribesmen here had sheltered 30 al Qaeda fighters. When the army moved in, al Qaeda opened fire and 10 Pakistani soldiers were killed. All 30 of the al Qaeda men escaped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And the journalist who reported "In Search of Al Qaeda" is Martin Smith, who is back from Pakistan and the other countries he hit to tell us what he learned.
Welcome. Good to have you with us.
SMITH: Good to be here.
ZAHN: Glad to have you back in this country.
SMITH: Thank you.
ZAHN: There has been so much debate about al Qaeda's ability to reconstitute itself. We did a report yesterday on these mobile training camps that are surfacing all over the country.
What did you find the level of al Qaeda's readiness to be?
SMITH: Well, it's clear that, since we had our big battles in Tora Bora, Shahi-kot, last fall, that al Qaeda has been able to move across into Pakistan, where U.S. troops are forbidden to go. The Pakistani government does not want to weaken itself politically, so that it kept the Americans out.
They can easily go into these tribal areas along the border, all the way from the northwest territories up in the Hindu Kush, all the way down into Baluchistan. Ask this is a vast area. The people are friendly towards al Qaeda. It's very easy for them to find safe haven. And there's plenty of evidence there's been battles between the locals, the local Pakistani troops that have been sent in there and al Qaeda.
Usually, al Qaeda has been getting away and, in some cases, killing Pakistani troops that have attempted to get them.
ZAHN: I want to talk about these key tribal areas now, because you just mentioned that the American soldiers have been kept out of those areas by the Pakistani government.
I want to show what happened to you when you and your team made your first attempt to get into those treacherous tribal areas.
Here's what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
SMITH: We were trying to get into one of the nearby tribal areas, but we were told time and again to forget it. We found out that, these days, even Pakistani journalists aren't getting in.
How come reporters can't go into this area anymore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reporters can go, but the government says that we cannot guarantee your safety.
SMITH: But they won't let me past the roadblock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, because they think that, if you go inside, you'll be kidnapped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Now, Martin, ultimately, you were able to get a member of your team that you sort of inherited over there into the area. Quickly, how did you do that? What did he see?
SMITH: Well, we sent in a local Pashtun-speaking journalist, a tribesman, who was able to go in and out of these areas freely. We sent him in there with a camera, trained him with it. And he brought back some remarkable pictures of Pakistani troops on the move, confronting al Qaeda, the bombing of some houses.
Nobody has been able to go into these areas. You see the footage right there of the houses being bombed. And he was the only journalist there covering this.
ZAHN: What happened to the al Qaeda members?
SMITH: They got away. There were four of them. They got away. The tribal elders then held demonstrations the next day, where they said that: "If you're coming after al Qaeda, we are all Qaeda. And down with America and down with the Musharraf government."
And this was a show the force on the streets. It was quite impressive. This is one of the homes of one of the local religious leaders that was bombed.
ZAHN: Wow.
Based on the observations of your Pashtun team member, did he say it appeared to be a legitimate effort on the Pakistani government's part or was this all for show?
SMITH: No, this is a legitimate effort to go in there and root people out, but they can't -- they can only go so far.
You see, for many years, the Pakistani government has supported these jihadis to help them prosecute India and keep the pressure on India over in Kashmir. It's a very complicated mix in the situation. But they've even sent these people over to al Qaeda camps for training, the ISI, the intelligence services in Pakistan.
So they can't go too far. They've already lost a whole bunch of parliamentary seats because of the war on terrorism. It's undermined their own stability.
ZAHN: I wanted to close with some sound from a woman who you all caught up with that I think almost every member of our audience is going to find chilling, if not disgusting. And then I want you to explain how prevalent this attitude is on the other side.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I didn't used to think that I could support violence. When I saw the World Trade Center and the Pentagon burn, I cried. I fainted with joy. And I prayed that God would help whoever did this operation.
I may support al Qaeda financially. I may support them with whatever I can. And if I have nothing to offer them, my last resort is to raise two or three children, maybe mine, to become Sheik Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: How many of the people that you interviewed feel that way?
SMITH: A lot of people feel that way. We've talked to a lot of people with those attitudes.
I would say that she's unusual in that she was willing to sit before a camera and speak openly. She is also perhaps one of the most compelling and articulate people that I've spoken to with this point of view. So it was chilling to listen to her speak.
ZAHN: Well, the documentary is, really, staggeringly good. Thank you. Best of luck to you.
Another rare glimpse today at a very different sort of terrorism. Our own cameras today were allowed inside the Fairfax County cell where Virginia police are now holding 17-year-old accused sniper John Lee Malvo. Malvo's lawyer claims it's wrong to keep the juvenile in the adult facility. The judge has disagreed.
And today, Jeanne Meserve was allowed inside the facility to show the world for the first time how Malvo is being held. And she joins us tonight from Washington -- good evening, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula.
Twelve hundred people held at this Fairfax County detention facility -- one of them is a juvenile, John Lee Malvo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN BARRY, FAIRFAX COUNTY SHERIFF: This is the area that we house the juvenile prisoner.
MESERVE (voice-over): We can't see 17-year-old John Lee Malvo, but we can see the identical cell block next door: shower, steel toilet, cement walls, metal table and chairs. It is a central day room area, not a 6-by-8 cell.
BARRY: I don't know if I'd call it a suite. But, as you can see, it's much larger and much roomier than the accommodations that any other prisoner has in this facility.
MESERVE: He is kept in this larger area so a camera can watch him 24 hours a day in case he tries to escape or hurt himself.
(on camera): The camera is fixed. It does not move. So guards can view Malvo while he's here in the day room. But, if he does go over to use the toilet or the shower, he has some privacy.
(voice-over): Malvo doesn't have a raised platform for his thin mattress like those in the cells. His goes on the floor.
BARRY: The comfort level is not different whether you're on the floor or on that little riser. And, in fact, there's probably between 100 and 150 other prisoners in this facility that are sleeping on the floor because of overcrowding.
MESERVE: Malvo has no television, no radio, no clock. But, because he is not believed to be a high suicide risk, he has been given a few items.
BARRY: Just some reading materials and legal materials, and cosmetics and a blanket and so forth.
MESERVE (on camera): Cosmetics?
BARRY: Cosmetics meaning shampoos and toothpaste and toothbrush and all of that.
MESERVE (voice-over): According to his guardian. Malvo has copies of the Koran and "Gulliver's Travels." He also has a phone on which he can make collect calls. The jail can monitor them, but is not at this point.
This is what he eats: a vegetarian loaf so unappetizing, it's usually given to prisoners in disciplinary segregation.
BARRY: And the things you have to try.
(LAUGHTER)
MESERVE: Malvo is being fed this at his guardian's request, because, for now, it is the only vegetarian meal available to him.
Apart from trips to court, Malvo is kept in this cell block 24 hours a day, not even let out to exercise because, by law, he must be kept away from adult inmates. Apart from his lawyers and guardians, he has had no visitors and little mail.
BARRY: Jail is not meant to be a nice place. It's a place to detain people or to house them for their time of incarceration.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Approximately 20 prisoners were displaced to create this isolated area for Malvo. It has made overcrowded conditions at the jail worse, but it keeps Malvo away from the adult population, as the law requires. And the sheriff says it keeps Malvo safe from anyone who might seek vigilante justice -- Paula.
ZAHN: Jeanne, recently, there's been a lot of interest in his mother and her status. Can you bring us up-to-date on that?
MESERVE: Well, a court has now ordered her deported, a court in Seattle, Washington. And she has indicated that she wants to go back to Jamaica. However, we also know that lawyers in this case have wanted to talk to her as a material witness. So it's unclear when she might leave the country -- Paula.
ZAHN: And before we let you go tonight, Jeanne, what is the latest on how John Lee Malvo is acting like in jail?
MESERVE: The sheriff says, actually, he's been a good prisoner, that they've had no problems with him whatsoever.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Jeanne Meserve, joining us from Washington tonight.
MESERVE: You bet.
ZAHN: Still ahead: She wore her pride on her sleeve and it got her in trouble at school. Which is more American: stopping a girl from wearing Palestinian symbols to school or letting her?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: a pledge of death? A college freshman dies of an alcohol overdose in an alleged fraternity hazing gone horribly wrong. His parents tell their story -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: And we're back.
Teenage drinking is at epidemic levels in this country. So, when Daniel Reardon drank too much at the University of Maryland, was it another example of teen excess or was his fraternity to blame?
Last February, at the age of 19, he was found unconscious at the Phi Sigma Kappa house. He died six days later after being taken off life support. The national fraternity closed the University of Maryland chapter. Now his parents are suing.
And Patty Davis explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the beginning, police saw signs of heavy drinking, two cases of Hurricane malt liquor taken as evidence after a pledge initiation event at the University of Maryland chapter of Phi Sigma Kappa.
MAJOR PAUL DILLON, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND POLICE: We found a 19- year-old man unconscious in the first-floor lounge area.
DAVIS: That man, freshman Daniel Reardon, was in a coma with a blood alcohol level of .579, seven times the legal limit to drive. Reardon's family claims it was fraternity hazing, that their underaged son was cheered on to drink until he passed out.
DOUGLAS FIERBERG, ATTORNEY FOR REARDONS: We understand that the pledge event lasted approximately an hour, during which time a 40- ounce can of Hurricane malt liquor and then a gallon of Jim Beam alcohol was consumed.
DAVIS: By then, Dan Reardon was unconscious, vomit running out of his nose. In police reports, two fraternity brothers denied Reardon was forced to drink and they say they kept a close eye on him for several hours after he passed out.
Several people continued to monitor his pulse, trying to wake him up, said pledge director Brian McLaughlin, but he continued to snore more loudly. Fraternity president Gary Kaufman says he assumed Reardon was in a deep sleep. Kaufman says he called 911 immediately after realizing Reardon stopped breathing. That call, the Reardons allege, should have come much sooner.
FIERBERG: By that time, Dan's opportunity to survive was gone. His life was gone.
DAVIS: Reardon's parents disconnected him from life support a week later.
The national Phi Sigma Kappa fraternity immediately suspended the campus chapter and says they don't condone the alleged hazing. This week, the University of Maryland banned the fraternity for the next five years. GEORGE CATHCART, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SPOKESMAN: We need to send a message to fraternities, to all organizations that there are some behaviors that simply can't be tolerated.
DAVIS (on camera): Police investigated, but declined to file charges. The Reardons' attorney concedes Daniel had a choice not to drink, but says the fraternity had an obligation not to haze him. The parents are suing Phi Sigma Kappa and the two fraternity brothers to discourage hazing at colleges across the country.
Patty Davis, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And joining me now from Washington are Daniel's parents, Dr. Daniel Reardon and Nancy McKemie, and their attorney, Douglas Fierberg.
Welcome to you all.
Dr. Reardon, I want to start with you tonight.
Take us back to that dreadful morning when you got a call from Maryland police confirming that your son was in the hospital. What exactly did they tell you?
DR. DANIEL REARDON, FATHER OF DANIEL REARDON: My son Patrick received the phone call. He came upstairs. He woke me up. He told me that Daniel was in very bad shape. I picked up the phone. The police department, the officer said that Daniel was in bad shape and I needed to get to the hospital immediately.
ZAHN: And what did you find when you got to the hospital?
REARDON: That my son was in a hospital gurney, unconscious, on life support.
ZAHN: And did they tell you about any of the circumstances that led to that condition?
REARDON: They just told me that he had an alcohol content in excess of 0.5.
ZAHN: And how long did it take you to put the pieces of the puzzle together, so you were able to figure out exactly what went wrong that night?
REARDON: I'm still trying to figure out the pieces of the puzzle, but I understand it better now. It was an awful night.
ZAHN: Can you explain to us what went wrong?
REARDON: That evening?
ZAHN: Yes.
REARDON: I had absolutely no idea that this was going to happen. It was the furthest thing from my mind.
And I did not believe that, at that time, before my son went into the fraternity, that there was going to be a hazing. As I understand it, is that, at some point, my son consumed an excessive amount of alcohol and passed out. And then they sequestered him in a room, as I understand it, for three, 3 1/2 hours and watched him die. Even amongst the other pledges asking to call 911 and help him, no one helped. It was a supervised death. It was horrible.
ZAHN: Nancy, why didn't anybody help?
NANCY MCKEMIE, MOTHER OF DANIEL REARDON: Even after they called the emergency medical technicians, for the three minutes it took for them to get there, no one attempted CPR. I hold this fraternity responsible for the death of my son. Alcohol was not allowed in a pledging ceremony. It was expressly against university regulations. I hold them accountable and guilty.
ZAHN: Mr. Fierberg, what could the other pledges or members of the fraternity done that night?
FIERBERG: Well, first off, they recognized immediately when Daniel lost consciousness that he needed help. And, in the police records, it identifies that somebody said they should call 911.
And then the fraternity members closed the doors, prevented people from getting to Daniel and, for approximately four hours, watched him as he lay on the floor with vomit running from his nose. And they did nothing. They could have helped. And they should have helped.
ZAHN: What about the horrible descriptions, Dr. Reardon, of some of these young men thinking that he was just sleeping, that they heard snoring some time during this process and they thought he had nodded off?
REARDON: I just think it's horrible that they knew he was in trouble. And I'm just thinking of my son lying there dying and no one was doing anything. And all they had to do was call 911. The fire barn was across the street. It could have saved my son's life. There was no reason for this to have happened.
ZAHN: Dr. Reardon, in closing tonight, I'd like to read to you a statement that I've just been handed that came from the grand chapter of Phi Sigma Kappa.
And I'm paraphrasing here, but it essentially said -- quote -- that, "College is a time for experimentation and examining adulthood and that you cannot do so without accepting responsibility for your actions."
How do you respond to that?
REARDON: That evening was a hazing. It was supervised, as far as I understand it, by the fraternity. It had officers that were supervising my son's death. They were responsible. They were standing over him as he was dying, people saying, "Call 911." And no one did anything. They are responsible for my son's death. This was a hazing.
ZAHN: Nancy, a final thought from you?
MCKEMIE: I think this. I think parents need to look at what's happening on university campuses. They need to be aware that their children can be at risk for these kinds of things. They need to be particularly careful with fraternities and ask questions. I don't want any family to experience what we have.
ZAHN: I don't either.
Dr. Daniel Reardon, Nancy McKemie, Douglas Fierberg, thank you all for joining us tonight and sharing some of your painful memories with us. Appreciate your time.
Up next: She wore a Palestinian flag to school. And that was just beginning of her problems.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
AARON BEURGE: Will you accept this rose?
HELENE EKSTEROWICZ: Of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Was it passion?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: No looking back. This is for real. We're going to make this work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Or playing to the cameras?
When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: If you buy food from someone and you like it and you eat too much of it, is it their fault or yours? Well, that is the question at the heart of a lawsuit filed by teenagers who blame McDonald's for their obesity. You're about to meet the attorney pressing the case.
But first, here's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a question that provokes a measure of eye-rolling as well as concern. Should a fast-food restaurant be held legally responsible if you get fat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they have a good argument, but I don't think they're going to win anything, to put it like that.
MATTINGLY: Such a lawsuit is now in the hands of a U.S. district judge in New York, alleging fast-food king McDonald's, while enticing child customers with characters and Happy Meals, didn't sufficiently warn parents that a steady diet under the arches would make their children unhealthy and obese. One of the teenage plaintiffs who regularly dines on McMuffins, Big Macs and apple pies reportedly weighs 270 pounds.
In a written statement released by McDonald's, the company calls the suit baseless, saying the lawsuit makes no sense. And at the Bronx McDonald's reportedly frequented by the plaintiffs, customers we talked to seemed to agree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are in charge of their own health wise. And if they feel they want to eat McDonald's every day, then that's on them. It's not McDonald's fault.
MATTINGLY (on camera): But critics of the fast-food industry, big fat, they call it, say that this lawsuit, win or lose, could eventually lead to even more lawsuits and the possibility of a big tobacco-type settlement, a settlement that would hold responsible multiple fast-food chains for the fattening of America.
JOHN BANZHAF, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: The basic idea is using the same tactics we used on tobacco to say to fast food, "Pay your fair share of the $115 billion a year it costs all Americans, including the great majority of us who are not obese, in terms of health care and other costs."
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Jeff Banzhaf, a leading figure in anti- tobacco lawsuits, is an adviser in the case against McDonald's.
BANZHAF: It's hard to argue that a 9-year-old lured into McDonald's by a toy and a Happy Meal should be exercising a lot of personal responsibility about nutrition.
MATTINGLY: In its most recent statement, McDonald's points to fat factors, like Americans' increasingly sedentary lifestyles and a lack of moderation in eating, even at home, saying McDonald's is no more responsible for an individual's overall diet and lifestyle choices than any other food destination.
If a U.S. district judge agrees, the case gets thrown out. If not, the door could be open to a potentially long and costly battle of the bulge.
David Mattingly, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: Joining us now is attorney Samuel Hirsch, who represents the teens in their lawsuit, and Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.
Good evening.
SAMUEL HIRSCH, ATTORNEY FOR OBESE TEENS SUING MCDONALD'S: Good evening.
ZAHN: What do you say to people who are laughing out loud tonight when they hear about the suit? And they're saying: "Wait a minute. Doesn't someone have to bear any kind of responsibility for what these kids put into their bodies?"
HIRSCH: I don't think the media has presented or reported this lawsuit properly. It's not just about obesity. It's about other health hazards that are totally unknown. But, more importantly, it's about the deceptive practices that McDonald's has engaged in over the years.
ZAHN: Is there anything you've seen in any McDonald's that you think encourages people to eat more? Is there evidence that the advertising would actually encourage people to do just that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, certainly there is a lot -- they advertise to get you to go in there. That's the purpose of the advertising.
ZAHN: Well, yes, but is there any advertising that suggests this is healthy for you?
TOOBIN: Go there every day?
The problem is, I've never seen them claim to be healthy. That's not something I've seen.
HIRSCH: You want to see it?
TOOBIN: Yes, I actually do.
HIRSCH: That's because there's a lack of information out there.
This is from their own Web site: "McDonald's can be a part of any balanced diet and lifestyle. Mighty meals for grownup kids." If you want to be a grownup kid, you've got to eat a mighty meal. Even if you're a little kid, go out there and get a fat, supersized Big Mac. And the bigger it is, the stronger you're going to become and the more muscles you are going to grow.
They don't want the information out there. They want you to go out there...
ZAHN: Isn't that just an advertising slogan?
HIRSCH: No, it's not just -- that's the same as saying: "You shouldn't have believed us. We are lying, but you should have known that." They don't. They have the toy promotions. They have such brilliant marketing strategies. They spend $1 billion a year. Think of that. Think of the power in the media that they control and the school food -- fast- food programs. And you have kids who are going to out there, they're being conditioned as youngsters.
When you're young, that's when you are kind of conditioned to certain eating habits. And if you start them young with growing up on McDonald's, and they continue. The bigger they get, the bigger the supersize, they become conditioned to eating that. And that's why we have -- or largely attributable -- an obesity problem in the United States.
We're not saying that there is no parental responsibility. But McDonald's puts it out there. They want those kids to come in for those toy promotions. They'll give you a coupon to come back for another supersize.
ZAHN: But where is the deceit in the promotion?
HIRSCH: The deceit is in the promotions because they are saying it's nutritious. They've touted themselves as being nutritious. It's anything but nutritious.
ZAHN: What are the chances that this lawsuit will succeed, Jeff?
TOOBIN: I think it's a big long shot.
(CROSSTALK)
HIRSCH: We knew you it was an uphill fight. We realized that.
TOOBIN: Can I just -- wait. Can I just talk for one second?
If you look at the class actions that have succeeded in recent years, things like tobacco, because tobacco is a product that is always bad for you. There's no safe way to use tobacco. But even handguns, handguns are a product that, you know, obviously has a very dangerous use at times. But juries have been very reluctant to hold handgun manufacturers liable, because juries say, look, it's the responsibility of the end user. There's a personal responsibility issue there, even though it's a potentially dangerous product.
And I think they're likely to have a similar reaction to McDonald's.
ZAHN: Mr. Hirsch, let's close with a final thought on where the issue of common sense should come into play here. Don't we all know that, if we eat a steady diet of doughnuts and french fries, we're probably not going to end up being too healthy?
HIRSCH: We don't know that there are other health hazards.
We don't know the extent of the trans-fatty acids. We don't know that fries have other type of problems when they're heated at a very high temperature, as McDonald's is doing. There are so many hidden factors in nutrition that are unknown to the consumer. It doesn't know how -- most average consumers don't have any idea of how many grams of fats there are or caloric content and so forth, because they don't post it in a simple, conspicuous manner, as, for example, Subway does.
ZAHN: All right.
Jeff, a final thought. I suspect, if you were the judge, you'd throw this case out.
TOOBIN: Well, I don't want to prejudge in that way. I have not seen all the evidence.
But I think the key question is always going to be personal responsibility. How much is the responsibility of the consumer of the product and how much is the responsibility of the producer of the product? That's the balance you have to strike. And when common sense, as you point out, suggests that too much of even -- of McDonald's is just obviously a bad thing, it's going to be very tough to hold McDonald's liable for these people being obese.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to leave it there. Mr. Hirsch is not so sure. I saw that look. We will have to end this segment, though, and move on.
Thank you both for dropping by tonight.
HIRSCH: You're welcome. Thank you.
ZAHN: Still ahead: You want to talk junk food, guilty pleasures? We've got "The Bachelor," fresh from making his pick from the menu on national TV last night.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: She put pro-Palestinian sticker on her books and now she's taking the heat for her heritage.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: In a country that prides itself on free speech, free thought, what limits should be placed on someone who exercises that free expression?
For example, a young woman who wore Palestinian symbols to school as a statement of support for her heritage says the school came down on her because of it.
Maria Hinojosa picks up the story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Awawdeh home each day, America meets tradition. The mother wears a scarf on her head. The daughters do not, two languages, two kinds of food, Palestinian parents and very American kids who believe in the very American value of freedom of expression, the right to be an American Palestinian, even at a public high school.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: He told me to stand and put my hands up, take off my shoes.
HINOJOSA (on camera): Where did they tell you to put your hands up, like how?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Like this.
HINOJOSA (voice-over): Yusra Awawdeh says school security officials frisked her, banned her pro-Palestinian stickers and T- shirts, and told her she can never display the Palestinian flag.
(on camera): And you have been told what about wearing this to school?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Because it represents it, because it has the colors, because it has the flag, they told me to put it away.
HINOJOSA: And they said: "You can carry any flag. You can't carry this flag"?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, they said any flag. And then the dean goes, "Honey, the only flag you could represent in this school is the American flag."
HINOJOSA (voice-over): New York education policy says students can wear political armbands and badges, but can't vandalize school property with stickers. The principal wouldn't comment, but the board of education is investigating the entire incident.
(on camera): What would you like your daughter to be doing?
YASER AWAWDEH, FATHER OF YUSRA: To be a good student in the school, you know, not to have any problem with the security, with the principal, with the teacher. And I think nothing wrong with that, to have the sticker on the book or her jacket or scarf on her neck, nothing wrong with that.
HINOJOSA (voice-over): The Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee says it's about more than stickers.
MONICA TARAZI, ARAB ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE: School is a place where students should be finding out about conflicts about the world, should be founding out about controversial topics, should be forming their opinions, and should be able to begin expressing those opinions.
HINOJOSA: That's not how Yusra felt.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I looked like a terrorist when they were searching me. Taking off my shoes? What is it, an airport?
HINOJOSA: Yet she says no one will stop her from representing her country, both of them.
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Yusra Awawdeh is with me now to further discuss this issue.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Thank you.
ZAHN: So you're wearing exactly what you were wearing on Tuesday when you got into trouble?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes. Yes.
ZAHN: When the security guards or guard yanked you out of class, did they tell you why?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No. I asked her why. She said, "You know that we don't discuss this." And they don't tell us anything.
ZAHN: So no one gave you any reason for why you had to be patted down on your abdomen?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, ma'am.
ZAHN: Where else did they touch you?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I wasn't patted. They searched me. They made me take off my shoes. They made me put my hands on my stomach and pull my pants up to see if I had anything there. She searched my jacket pockets and told me, if I had anything in my pants. I was, like, "No, nothing." Asked me if I had anything personal in my jacket. I said no.
They took out everything. They told me, "Watch me when I'm taking out the things out of your jacket." I watched them before they took anything from me. And they told me to take off my stickers off my book, told me to put -- when I walked in, she told me -- the dean told me to take this off, take off my button, and not to represent anything in this country but American colors.
ZAHN: So, as you're being frisked -- and I guess, in essence, you're patting yourself down when they're checking out your abdomen...
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes.
ZAHN: ... did you say: "What do you want? What are you looking for?"
YUSRA AWAWDEH: They told me that there's this sticker going around in school saying "Long live the intifada," "Zionism equal racism." And I so-called had a sticker like it. But on the bottom, it said "Arab Women Association." And the sticker going around on the bottom says "Arab Women Association. " So, after that, she was like, "Do you know who's doing it?"
I was like, "No, I do not know."
ZAHN: So you deny having put up any of those stickers around the school.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes. I would not.
ZAHN: Do you deny that you've done any kind of vandalism around the school?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, I never did it.
ZAHN: And do you think that is what the school is going to come back and say? Because that's what we were being told, that you're being accused of some kind of vandalism around the school and that's why they did this to you.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: That's why they searched me. They were looking for stickers. But the way they were searching me, they looked like they weren't looking for stickers.
ZAHN: They were looking for what?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I felt like they were looking for weapons or bombs or something on me.
ZAHN: Do you understand, though, the heightened concern just about everybody has post-September 11? Do you understand why someone might overreact and maybe think that? Or do you think that's just totally inexcusable?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: It's inexcusable. It's a school. Why would I walk in school like that, you know? I was born here. I'm American.
ZAHN: Do you think that maybe they thought you were trying to provoke other students in some way?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No. I've been representing Palestine in that school for three years. Nobody ever told me anything. Nobody told me to put away my stickers. Nobody told me to put this, my scarf, away. Nobody told me I can't put a button on my jacket.
ZAHN: Yusra Awawdeh, thank you very much for dropping by.
Just a reminder: We did make an attempt to contact not only the school, but the principal as well, to get their side of the story of what led to this frisking incident. They declined to comment.
Still ahead: It is the most magical moment of a couple's life, sandwiched, of course, between car commercials.
Stay with us to see how the happy couple came together with our own Anderson Cooper.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: When you propose to a woman, I'm told there are a couple of things that you want to get right. Obviously, you want her to say yes. You want your proposal to be romantic. And, most of all, you want your proposal to bring in the coveted 18-to-34-year-old demographic that advertisers love.
By those criteria, TV's "The Bachelor," Aaron Beurge, scored at least two out of the three last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: So, Helene, will you marry me?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes, I will, without a doubt.
BEURGE: Without a doubt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Aww.
Our own Anderson Cooper hasn't been invited to the bachelor party, but he is still so moved. And he managed to get some quality time with the bachelor today. Were you blown away?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Yes. We had our very romantic 10 minutes together, me, Aaron and Helene.
ZAHN: And how were they?
COOPER: They were interesting.
There were so many romantic moments in the eight weeks or so that that show was on the air. There was the time that Aaron made out with Helene in the tub. There was the time that Aaron made out with Christi in the pool.
ZAHN: Was that was around the same time, that all of these makeup sessions were going on?
COOPER: Yes, it was pretty much the same day. And there was the time Aaron made out with Brooke in the Jacuzzi. And who could forget that? And so, there were a lot of just good times I remember.
But, yes, did I meet with Aaron and his perhaps bride-to-be today. And one thing is clear. The reality show is over, but the reality of real life is just beginning for these two.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: So I have a pretty big question for you. COOPER: So, Helene, in the show last night, you said you accepted Aaron's proposal without a doubt. It's been like 2 1/2 months since you finished shooting. Do you have any doubts?
EKSTEROWICZ: I don't know. At this point, I really don't have any doubts. I just want us to get to know each other a little bit better outside of "The Bachelor" and see where it goes from there. But I'm very optimistic.
COOPER: How is it going to work, Aaron? You live in Missouri. She's lives in New Jersey. Long-distance things are tough.
BEURGE: Yes, they are.
COOPER (voice-over): Aaron is intent on living in Springfield, Missouri, opening up a sports bar. Helene seems less than thrilled with the notion of moving there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
EKSTEROWICZ: Now, where is your apartment in relation to this? Right upstairs.
BEURGE: Right above us.
EKSTEROWICZ: Is it going to be loud?
BEURGE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (on camera): Helene, are you ready to move to Springfield and live in a sports bar?
(LAUGHTER)
EKSTEROWICZ: Live above the sports bar? Yes, with earplugs. No, I can say I don't feel like I'm going to move tomorrow. But after I get to know him and if things go as well as they have been, then I wouldn't have any problem.
COOPER (voice-over): Sports bars definitely are not very romantic. And romance, or the dream of it, is what "The Bachelor" was all about. It was a reality romance, the premise ridiculous, a fantasy. But viewers didn't care -- one man chosen to choose from a harem of willing women.
At first, the women appeared modern-day icons. They were coifed, coutured, confident. But after a few episodes, a couple of dates, some of them simply snapped. There was Christi crying, clingy Christi. After one date to Napa, she was in love. Unfortunately for her, Aaron wasn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
CHRISTI: I'm not going to be OK. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And then there was Heather, a Texas beauty queen, who wrapped herself around Aaron and wouldn't let go, until that is, he let her go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
HEATHER: What have I done wrong? What did I do to deserve this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Even now, Aaron is not sure what to make of all the drama.
(on camera): Were you surprised at how quickly some of these women said that they fell in love with you? Christi, Heather, they all seemed like one date to Napa -- it must have been a pretty great date.
BEURGE: Yes. It amazed me to see how strongly they reacted after those dates. I don't understand why. It's not like that happens in the real world after I've known somebody for only a week or 10 days.
COOPER (voice-over): Maybe it had something to do with the hot tub. He sure did like that hot tub. For a Midwest male, he seemed like a big city slicker making out and mauling many amidst the bubbles and steam.
(on camera): Yes, what is it with you and hot tubs?
BEURGE: I have a hot tub fetish, I guess. I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: What was it like, Helene, watching him play tongue hockey with people in a hot tub?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes.
Well, I'd be lying to say that it didn't affect me or anything else. I've had some questions go about in my head, just questioning his sincerity, because here is at the last show saying, "I'm in love with you." And then, "Well, then why were you doing all that other stuff?" It's been a little bit difficult.
COOPER: How do you answer those questions?
BEURGE: It's been difficult.
COOPER (voice-over): After dumping most of the dames, last night, Aaron had to choose between two. Many thought he would choose Brooke, a 22-year-old Alabama pixie, young, sweet, ready for love.
But, instead, it was Helene, smart, tough and, surprisingly, brunette. The show was a blizzard of blonde. Today, they seemed happy, dazed by all the media attention, cautious about what would come. Aaron, for one, seemed ready to cover his bets.
(on camera): And I hope this isn't an offensive question, Aaron. But if this doesn't work out between you, would you consider looking up someone from the show, Gwen or Brooke or someone else?
BEURGE: Regardless of the outcome, I don't see any reason why I couldn't be in touch with Gwen as friends or pen pals, or anybody else from the show. I think everybody left with nothing but great things to say about each other. So, yes, I fully anticipate that I'll be in touch with them on a friendly basis.
COOPER: That's OK with you?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes, that's fine, as long it's just as friends, I guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ah, yes, it was quite a meeting there with Aaron and Helene.
ZAHN: What kind of a vibe did you get off the two of them?
COOPER: It was interesting. Clearly, they have not spent much time together. The show ended actually -- it ended taping like two -- September 6 or so. So they haven't had an opportunity to be together.
ZAHN: They haven't been together since then?
COOPER: Once or twice, they had secret meetings, but also not really without cameras. So they're still sort of caught up in like this whole media frenzy.
And I don't know. You look at them kind of when they're actually in their down moments together, like eating today at lunch, and they just kind of don't have much to talk about, frankly. But we'll see. Who knows?
ZAHN: It's so bizarre.
COOPER: Love can conquer all.
ZAHN: Oh, love can conquer all. But do you ever see the two of them walking down the aisle together, I don't know, in the 10 minutes of quality time that you had with the happy couple?
COOPER: I don't really see her wanting to live above some sports bar in Springfield, Missouri. But maybe that's just me. I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Now back to the subject of you. Our audience may not know tonight that I am sitting next to the man "People" magazine has proclaimed one of the sexiest journalists on TV. I am so lucky.
COOPER: Well, yes. I believe it was sexiest newscaster alive.
ZAHN: Alive?
COOPER: Not just on TV. I would like to...
ZAHN: I hope you're enjoying this moment.
Great to see you again.
COOPER: Nice to see you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Anderson.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Tomorrow: Why does the Pentagon need to know what you buy in order to keep you safe? Is this protecting America or threatening what it stands for?
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Julie Andrews. Will she ever sing again?
We really appreciate you watching tonight. Have a good night. Hope to see you tomorrow morning for "AMERICAN MORNING." It begins at 7:00 a.m. Eastern.
Again, thanks for joining us.
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Malvo>
Aired November 21, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, HOST: Good evening. I'm Paula Zahn, filling in for Connie Chung.
Tonight: new terror strikes, a big al Qaeda capture, and a rare glimpse at al Qaeda breeding grounds where Westerners dare not go.
ANNOUNCER: In search of al Qaeda: tracking hundreds of al Qaeda soldiers who seem to vanish into thin air. Where are they now and what are they doing?
John Lee Malvo, the teenage sniper suspect, we'll go behind prison walls and into his jail cell in Virginia.
She's a Palestinian-American and proud of her heritage. And it got her into trouble in school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YUSRA AWAWDEH, PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN: The dean goes, "Honey, the only flag you could represent in this school is the American flag."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: both sides of the controversy.
Does fast food put kids on the fast track to health problems? Some kids are taking matters into their own hands and McDonald's to court.
Love at 25th sight: the girl who got the final rose and "The Bachelor" no more. We'll answer the burning question: Is it really love?
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, sitting in for Connie Chung: Paula Zahn.
ZAHN: And good evening. Thanks so much for joining us tonight.
Tonight: several new developments from the front lines of the war on terror. A police officer in Kuwait pulled over two American soldiers today, shot one in the shoulder, the other in the face. They are both in stable condition tonight. Their attacker reportedly fled to Saudi Arabia.
The No. 2 man at the FBI sent out an e-mail saying he's -- quote -- "amazed and astounded" that anti-terror efforts have not proceeded more quickly. The e-mail also reminded FBI field offices to keep the war on terror as their top priority.
And, in Indonesia, police arrested the suspected mastermind of last month's nightclub bombing massacre in Bali.
And then there's this, a new report which suggests that al Qaeda is getting back on its feet and back to work. The PBS front-line report "In Search of Al Qaeda" took Western cameras into remote areas along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, where al Qaeda still manages to stay one step ahead of its pursuers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This home is demolished by the tribal leaders and the political administration. It is a demolished home of al Qaeda.
MARTIN SMITH, PBS REPORTER: He showed us this footage from a battle site in Wana in South Waziristan. Tribesmen here had sheltered 30 al Qaeda fighters. When the army moved in, al Qaeda opened fire and 10 Pakistani soldiers were killed. All 30 of the al Qaeda men escaped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And the journalist who reported "In Search of Al Qaeda" is Martin Smith, who is back from Pakistan and the other countries he hit to tell us what he learned.
Welcome. Good to have you with us.
SMITH: Good to be here.
ZAHN: Glad to have you back in this country.
SMITH: Thank you.
ZAHN: There has been so much debate about al Qaeda's ability to reconstitute itself. We did a report yesterday on these mobile training camps that are surfacing all over the country.
What did you find the level of al Qaeda's readiness to be?
SMITH: Well, it's clear that, since we had our big battles in Tora Bora, Shahi-kot, last fall, that al Qaeda has been able to move across into Pakistan, where U.S. troops are forbidden to go. The Pakistani government does not want to weaken itself politically, so that it kept the Americans out.
They can easily go into these tribal areas along the border, all the way from the northwest territories up in the Hindu Kush, all the way down into Baluchistan. Ask this is a vast area. The people are friendly towards al Qaeda. It's very easy for them to find safe haven. And there's plenty of evidence there's been battles between the locals, the local Pakistani troops that have been sent in there and al Qaeda.
Usually, al Qaeda has been getting away and, in some cases, killing Pakistani troops that have attempted to get them.
ZAHN: I want to talk about these key tribal areas now, because you just mentioned that the American soldiers have been kept out of those areas by the Pakistani government.
I want to show what happened to you when you and your team made your first attempt to get into those treacherous tribal areas.
Here's what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
SMITH: We were trying to get into one of the nearby tribal areas, but we were told time and again to forget it. We found out that, these days, even Pakistani journalists aren't getting in.
How come reporters can't go into this area anymore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reporters can go, but the government says that we cannot guarantee your safety.
SMITH: But they won't let me past the roadblock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, because they think that, if you go inside, you'll be kidnapped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Now, Martin, ultimately, you were able to get a member of your team that you sort of inherited over there into the area. Quickly, how did you do that? What did he see?
SMITH: Well, we sent in a local Pashtun-speaking journalist, a tribesman, who was able to go in and out of these areas freely. We sent him in there with a camera, trained him with it. And he brought back some remarkable pictures of Pakistani troops on the move, confronting al Qaeda, the bombing of some houses.
Nobody has been able to go into these areas. You see the footage right there of the houses being bombed. And he was the only journalist there covering this.
ZAHN: What happened to the al Qaeda members?
SMITH: They got away. There were four of them. They got away. The tribal elders then held demonstrations the next day, where they said that: "If you're coming after al Qaeda, we are all Qaeda. And down with America and down with the Musharraf government."
And this was a show the force on the streets. It was quite impressive. This is one of the homes of one of the local religious leaders that was bombed.
ZAHN: Wow.
Based on the observations of your Pashtun team member, did he say it appeared to be a legitimate effort on the Pakistani government's part or was this all for show?
SMITH: No, this is a legitimate effort to go in there and root people out, but they can't -- they can only go so far.
You see, for many years, the Pakistani government has supported these jihadis to help them prosecute India and keep the pressure on India over in Kashmir. It's a very complicated mix in the situation. But they've even sent these people over to al Qaeda camps for training, the ISI, the intelligence services in Pakistan.
So they can't go too far. They've already lost a whole bunch of parliamentary seats because of the war on terrorism. It's undermined their own stability.
ZAHN: I wanted to close with some sound from a woman who you all caught up with that I think almost every member of our audience is going to find chilling, if not disgusting. And then I want you to explain how prevalent this attitude is on the other side.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "IN SEARCH OF AL QAEDA")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I didn't used to think that I could support violence. When I saw the World Trade Center and the Pentagon burn, I cried. I fainted with joy. And I prayed that God would help whoever did this operation.
I may support al Qaeda financially. I may support them with whatever I can. And if I have nothing to offer them, my last resort is to raise two or three children, maybe mine, to become Sheik Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: How many of the people that you interviewed feel that way?
SMITH: A lot of people feel that way. We've talked to a lot of people with those attitudes.
I would say that she's unusual in that she was willing to sit before a camera and speak openly. She is also perhaps one of the most compelling and articulate people that I've spoken to with this point of view. So it was chilling to listen to her speak.
ZAHN: Well, the documentary is, really, staggeringly good. Thank you. Best of luck to you.
Another rare glimpse today at a very different sort of terrorism. Our own cameras today were allowed inside the Fairfax County cell where Virginia police are now holding 17-year-old accused sniper John Lee Malvo. Malvo's lawyer claims it's wrong to keep the juvenile in the adult facility. The judge has disagreed.
And today, Jeanne Meserve was allowed inside the facility to show the world for the first time how Malvo is being held. And she joins us tonight from Washington -- good evening, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula.
Twelve hundred people held at this Fairfax County detention facility -- one of them is a juvenile, John Lee Malvo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN BARRY, FAIRFAX COUNTY SHERIFF: This is the area that we house the juvenile prisoner.
MESERVE (voice-over): We can't see 17-year-old John Lee Malvo, but we can see the identical cell block next door: shower, steel toilet, cement walls, metal table and chairs. It is a central day room area, not a 6-by-8 cell.
BARRY: I don't know if I'd call it a suite. But, as you can see, it's much larger and much roomier than the accommodations that any other prisoner has in this facility.
MESERVE: He is kept in this larger area so a camera can watch him 24 hours a day in case he tries to escape or hurt himself.
(on camera): The camera is fixed. It does not move. So guards can view Malvo while he's here in the day room. But, if he does go over to use the toilet or the shower, he has some privacy.
(voice-over): Malvo doesn't have a raised platform for his thin mattress like those in the cells. His goes on the floor.
BARRY: The comfort level is not different whether you're on the floor or on that little riser. And, in fact, there's probably between 100 and 150 other prisoners in this facility that are sleeping on the floor because of overcrowding.
MESERVE: Malvo has no television, no radio, no clock. But, because he is not believed to be a high suicide risk, he has been given a few items.
BARRY: Just some reading materials and legal materials, and cosmetics and a blanket and so forth.
MESERVE (on camera): Cosmetics?
BARRY: Cosmetics meaning shampoos and toothpaste and toothbrush and all of that.
MESERVE (voice-over): According to his guardian. Malvo has copies of the Koran and "Gulliver's Travels." He also has a phone on which he can make collect calls. The jail can monitor them, but is not at this point.
This is what he eats: a vegetarian loaf so unappetizing, it's usually given to prisoners in disciplinary segregation.
BARRY: And the things you have to try.
(LAUGHTER)
MESERVE: Malvo is being fed this at his guardian's request, because, for now, it is the only vegetarian meal available to him.
Apart from trips to court, Malvo is kept in this cell block 24 hours a day, not even let out to exercise because, by law, he must be kept away from adult inmates. Apart from his lawyers and guardians, he has had no visitors and little mail.
BARRY: Jail is not meant to be a nice place. It's a place to detain people or to house them for their time of incarceration.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Approximately 20 prisoners were displaced to create this isolated area for Malvo. It has made overcrowded conditions at the jail worse, but it keeps Malvo away from the adult population, as the law requires. And the sheriff says it keeps Malvo safe from anyone who might seek vigilante justice -- Paula.
ZAHN: Jeanne, recently, there's been a lot of interest in his mother and her status. Can you bring us up-to-date on that?
MESERVE: Well, a court has now ordered her deported, a court in Seattle, Washington. And she has indicated that she wants to go back to Jamaica. However, we also know that lawyers in this case have wanted to talk to her as a material witness. So it's unclear when she might leave the country -- Paula.
ZAHN: And before we let you go tonight, Jeanne, what is the latest on how John Lee Malvo is acting like in jail?
MESERVE: The sheriff says, actually, he's been a good prisoner, that they've had no problems with him whatsoever.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Jeanne Meserve, joining us from Washington tonight.
MESERVE: You bet.
ZAHN: Still ahead: She wore her pride on her sleeve and it got her in trouble at school. Which is more American: stopping a girl from wearing Palestinian symbols to school or letting her?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: a pledge of death? A college freshman dies of an alcohol overdose in an alleged fraternity hazing gone horribly wrong. His parents tell their story -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: And we're back.
Teenage drinking is at epidemic levels in this country. So, when Daniel Reardon drank too much at the University of Maryland, was it another example of teen excess or was his fraternity to blame?
Last February, at the age of 19, he was found unconscious at the Phi Sigma Kappa house. He died six days later after being taken off life support. The national fraternity closed the University of Maryland chapter. Now his parents are suing.
And Patty Davis explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the beginning, police saw signs of heavy drinking, two cases of Hurricane malt liquor taken as evidence after a pledge initiation event at the University of Maryland chapter of Phi Sigma Kappa.
MAJOR PAUL DILLON, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND POLICE: We found a 19- year-old man unconscious in the first-floor lounge area.
DAVIS: That man, freshman Daniel Reardon, was in a coma with a blood alcohol level of .579, seven times the legal limit to drive. Reardon's family claims it was fraternity hazing, that their underaged son was cheered on to drink until he passed out.
DOUGLAS FIERBERG, ATTORNEY FOR REARDONS: We understand that the pledge event lasted approximately an hour, during which time a 40- ounce can of Hurricane malt liquor and then a gallon of Jim Beam alcohol was consumed.
DAVIS: By then, Dan Reardon was unconscious, vomit running out of his nose. In police reports, two fraternity brothers denied Reardon was forced to drink and they say they kept a close eye on him for several hours after he passed out.
Several people continued to monitor his pulse, trying to wake him up, said pledge director Brian McLaughlin, but he continued to snore more loudly. Fraternity president Gary Kaufman says he assumed Reardon was in a deep sleep. Kaufman says he called 911 immediately after realizing Reardon stopped breathing. That call, the Reardons allege, should have come much sooner.
FIERBERG: By that time, Dan's opportunity to survive was gone. His life was gone.
DAVIS: Reardon's parents disconnected him from life support a week later.
The national Phi Sigma Kappa fraternity immediately suspended the campus chapter and says they don't condone the alleged hazing. This week, the University of Maryland banned the fraternity for the next five years. GEORGE CATHCART, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND SPOKESMAN: We need to send a message to fraternities, to all organizations that there are some behaviors that simply can't be tolerated.
DAVIS (on camera): Police investigated, but declined to file charges. The Reardons' attorney concedes Daniel had a choice not to drink, but says the fraternity had an obligation not to haze him. The parents are suing Phi Sigma Kappa and the two fraternity brothers to discourage hazing at colleges across the country.
Patty Davis, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And joining me now from Washington are Daniel's parents, Dr. Daniel Reardon and Nancy McKemie, and their attorney, Douglas Fierberg.
Welcome to you all.
Dr. Reardon, I want to start with you tonight.
Take us back to that dreadful morning when you got a call from Maryland police confirming that your son was in the hospital. What exactly did they tell you?
DR. DANIEL REARDON, FATHER OF DANIEL REARDON: My son Patrick received the phone call. He came upstairs. He woke me up. He told me that Daniel was in very bad shape. I picked up the phone. The police department, the officer said that Daniel was in bad shape and I needed to get to the hospital immediately.
ZAHN: And what did you find when you got to the hospital?
REARDON: That my son was in a hospital gurney, unconscious, on life support.
ZAHN: And did they tell you about any of the circumstances that led to that condition?
REARDON: They just told me that he had an alcohol content in excess of 0.5.
ZAHN: And how long did it take you to put the pieces of the puzzle together, so you were able to figure out exactly what went wrong that night?
REARDON: I'm still trying to figure out the pieces of the puzzle, but I understand it better now. It was an awful night.
ZAHN: Can you explain to us what went wrong?
REARDON: That evening?
ZAHN: Yes.
REARDON: I had absolutely no idea that this was going to happen. It was the furthest thing from my mind.
And I did not believe that, at that time, before my son went into the fraternity, that there was going to be a hazing. As I understand it, is that, at some point, my son consumed an excessive amount of alcohol and passed out. And then they sequestered him in a room, as I understand it, for three, 3 1/2 hours and watched him die. Even amongst the other pledges asking to call 911 and help him, no one helped. It was a supervised death. It was horrible.
ZAHN: Nancy, why didn't anybody help?
NANCY MCKEMIE, MOTHER OF DANIEL REARDON: Even after they called the emergency medical technicians, for the three minutes it took for them to get there, no one attempted CPR. I hold this fraternity responsible for the death of my son. Alcohol was not allowed in a pledging ceremony. It was expressly against university regulations. I hold them accountable and guilty.
ZAHN: Mr. Fierberg, what could the other pledges or members of the fraternity done that night?
FIERBERG: Well, first off, they recognized immediately when Daniel lost consciousness that he needed help. And, in the police records, it identifies that somebody said they should call 911.
And then the fraternity members closed the doors, prevented people from getting to Daniel and, for approximately four hours, watched him as he lay on the floor with vomit running from his nose. And they did nothing. They could have helped. And they should have helped.
ZAHN: What about the horrible descriptions, Dr. Reardon, of some of these young men thinking that he was just sleeping, that they heard snoring some time during this process and they thought he had nodded off?
REARDON: I just think it's horrible that they knew he was in trouble. And I'm just thinking of my son lying there dying and no one was doing anything. And all they had to do was call 911. The fire barn was across the street. It could have saved my son's life. There was no reason for this to have happened.
ZAHN: Dr. Reardon, in closing tonight, I'd like to read to you a statement that I've just been handed that came from the grand chapter of Phi Sigma Kappa.
And I'm paraphrasing here, but it essentially said -- quote -- that, "College is a time for experimentation and examining adulthood and that you cannot do so without accepting responsibility for your actions."
How do you respond to that?
REARDON: That evening was a hazing. It was supervised, as far as I understand it, by the fraternity. It had officers that were supervising my son's death. They were responsible. They were standing over him as he was dying, people saying, "Call 911." And no one did anything. They are responsible for my son's death. This was a hazing.
ZAHN: Nancy, a final thought from you?
MCKEMIE: I think this. I think parents need to look at what's happening on university campuses. They need to be aware that their children can be at risk for these kinds of things. They need to be particularly careful with fraternities and ask questions. I don't want any family to experience what we have.
ZAHN: I don't either.
Dr. Daniel Reardon, Nancy McKemie, Douglas Fierberg, thank you all for joining us tonight and sharing some of your painful memories with us. Appreciate your time.
Up next: She wore a Palestinian flag to school. And that was just beginning of her problems.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
AARON BEURGE: Will you accept this rose?
HELENE EKSTEROWICZ: Of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Was it passion?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: No looking back. This is for real. We're going to make this work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Or playing to the cameras?
When CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: If you buy food from someone and you like it and you eat too much of it, is it their fault or yours? Well, that is the question at the heart of a lawsuit filed by teenagers who blame McDonald's for their obesity. You're about to meet the attorney pressing the case.
But first, here's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a question that provokes a measure of eye-rolling as well as concern. Should a fast-food restaurant be held legally responsible if you get fat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they have a good argument, but I don't think they're going to win anything, to put it like that.
MATTINGLY: Such a lawsuit is now in the hands of a U.S. district judge in New York, alleging fast-food king McDonald's, while enticing child customers with characters and Happy Meals, didn't sufficiently warn parents that a steady diet under the arches would make their children unhealthy and obese. One of the teenage plaintiffs who regularly dines on McMuffins, Big Macs and apple pies reportedly weighs 270 pounds.
In a written statement released by McDonald's, the company calls the suit baseless, saying the lawsuit makes no sense. And at the Bronx McDonald's reportedly frequented by the plaintiffs, customers we talked to seemed to agree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are in charge of their own health wise. And if they feel they want to eat McDonald's every day, then that's on them. It's not McDonald's fault.
MATTINGLY (on camera): But critics of the fast-food industry, big fat, they call it, say that this lawsuit, win or lose, could eventually lead to even more lawsuits and the possibility of a big tobacco-type settlement, a settlement that would hold responsible multiple fast-food chains for the fattening of America.
JOHN BANZHAF, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: The basic idea is using the same tactics we used on tobacco to say to fast food, "Pay your fair share of the $115 billion a year it costs all Americans, including the great majority of us who are not obese, in terms of health care and other costs."
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Jeff Banzhaf, a leading figure in anti- tobacco lawsuits, is an adviser in the case against McDonald's.
BANZHAF: It's hard to argue that a 9-year-old lured into McDonald's by a toy and a Happy Meal should be exercising a lot of personal responsibility about nutrition.
MATTINGLY: In its most recent statement, McDonald's points to fat factors, like Americans' increasingly sedentary lifestyles and a lack of moderation in eating, even at home, saying McDonald's is no more responsible for an individual's overall diet and lifestyle choices than any other food destination.
If a U.S. district judge agrees, the case gets thrown out. If not, the door could be open to a potentially long and costly battle of the bulge.
David Mattingly, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: Joining us now is attorney Samuel Hirsch, who represents the teens in their lawsuit, and Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst.
Good evening.
SAMUEL HIRSCH, ATTORNEY FOR OBESE TEENS SUING MCDONALD'S: Good evening.
ZAHN: What do you say to people who are laughing out loud tonight when they hear about the suit? And they're saying: "Wait a minute. Doesn't someone have to bear any kind of responsibility for what these kids put into their bodies?"
HIRSCH: I don't think the media has presented or reported this lawsuit properly. It's not just about obesity. It's about other health hazards that are totally unknown. But, more importantly, it's about the deceptive practices that McDonald's has engaged in over the years.
ZAHN: Is there anything you've seen in any McDonald's that you think encourages people to eat more? Is there evidence that the advertising would actually encourage people to do just that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, certainly there is a lot -- they advertise to get you to go in there. That's the purpose of the advertising.
ZAHN: Well, yes, but is there any advertising that suggests this is healthy for you?
TOOBIN: Go there every day?
The problem is, I've never seen them claim to be healthy. That's not something I've seen.
HIRSCH: You want to see it?
TOOBIN: Yes, I actually do.
HIRSCH: That's because there's a lack of information out there.
This is from their own Web site: "McDonald's can be a part of any balanced diet and lifestyle. Mighty meals for grownup kids." If you want to be a grownup kid, you've got to eat a mighty meal. Even if you're a little kid, go out there and get a fat, supersized Big Mac. And the bigger it is, the stronger you're going to become and the more muscles you are going to grow.
They don't want the information out there. They want you to go out there...
ZAHN: Isn't that just an advertising slogan?
HIRSCH: No, it's not just -- that's the same as saying: "You shouldn't have believed us. We are lying, but you should have known that." They don't. They have the toy promotions. They have such brilliant marketing strategies. They spend $1 billion a year. Think of that. Think of the power in the media that they control and the school food -- fast- food programs. And you have kids who are going to out there, they're being conditioned as youngsters.
When you're young, that's when you are kind of conditioned to certain eating habits. And if you start them young with growing up on McDonald's, and they continue. The bigger they get, the bigger the supersize, they become conditioned to eating that. And that's why we have -- or largely attributable -- an obesity problem in the United States.
We're not saying that there is no parental responsibility. But McDonald's puts it out there. They want those kids to come in for those toy promotions. They'll give you a coupon to come back for another supersize.
ZAHN: But where is the deceit in the promotion?
HIRSCH: The deceit is in the promotions because they are saying it's nutritious. They've touted themselves as being nutritious. It's anything but nutritious.
ZAHN: What are the chances that this lawsuit will succeed, Jeff?
TOOBIN: I think it's a big long shot.
(CROSSTALK)
HIRSCH: We knew you it was an uphill fight. We realized that.
TOOBIN: Can I just -- wait. Can I just talk for one second?
If you look at the class actions that have succeeded in recent years, things like tobacco, because tobacco is a product that is always bad for you. There's no safe way to use tobacco. But even handguns, handguns are a product that, you know, obviously has a very dangerous use at times. But juries have been very reluctant to hold handgun manufacturers liable, because juries say, look, it's the responsibility of the end user. There's a personal responsibility issue there, even though it's a potentially dangerous product.
And I think they're likely to have a similar reaction to McDonald's.
ZAHN: Mr. Hirsch, let's close with a final thought on where the issue of common sense should come into play here. Don't we all know that, if we eat a steady diet of doughnuts and french fries, we're probably not going to end up being too healthy?
HIRSCH: We don't know that there are other health hazards.
We don't know the extent of the trans-fatty acids. We don't know that fries have other type of problems when they're heated at a very high temperature, as McDonald's is doing. There are so many hidden factors in nutrition that are unknown to the consumer. It doesn't know how -- most average consumers don't have any idea of how many grams of fats there are or caloric content and so forth, because they don't post it in a simple, conspicuous manner, as, for example, Subway does.
ZAHN: All right.
Jeff, a final thought. I suspect, if you were the judge, you'd throw this case out.
TOOBIN: Well, I don't want to prejudge in that way. I have not seen all the evidence.
But I think the key question is always going to be personal responsibility. How much is the responsibility of the consumer of the product and how much is the responsibility of the producer of the product? That's the balance you have to strike. And when common sense, as you point out, suggests that too much of even -- of McDonald's is just obviously a bad thing, it's going to be very tough to hold McDonald's liable for these people being obese.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to leave it there. Mr. Hirsch is not so sure. I saw that look. We will have to end this segment, though, and move on.
Thank you both for dropping by tonight.
HIRSCH: You're welcome. Thank you.
ZAHN: Still ahead: You want to talk junk food, guilty pleasures? We've got "The Bachelor," fresh from making his pick from the menu on national TV last night.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: She put pro-Palestinian sticker on her books and now she's taking the heat for her heritage.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: In a country that prides itself on free speech, free thought, what limits should be placed on someone who exercises that free expression?
For example, a young woman who wore Palestinian symbols to school as a statement of support for her heritage says the school came down on her because of it.
Maria Hinojosa picks up the story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Awawdeh home each day, America meets tradition. The mother wears a scarf on her head. The daughters do not, two languages, two kinds of food, Palestinian parents and very American kids who believe in the very American value of freedom of expression, the right to be an American Palestinian, even at a public high school.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: He told me to stand and put my hands up, take off my shoes.
HINOJOSA (on camera): Where did they tell you to put your hands up, like how?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Like this.
HINOJOSA (voice-over): Yusra Awawdeh says school security officials frisked her, banned her pro-Palestinian stickers and T- shirts, and told her she can never display the Palestinian flag.
(on camera): And you have been told what about wearing this to school?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Because it represents it, because it has the colors, because it has the flag, they told me to put it away.
HINOJOSA: And they said: "You can carry any flag. You can't carry this flag"?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, they said any flag. And then the dean goes, "Honey, the only flag you could represent in this school is the American flag."
HINOJOSA (voice-over): New York education policy says students can wear political armbands and badges, but can't vandalize school property with stickers. The principal wouldn't comment, but the board of education is investigating the entire incident.
(on camera): What would you like your daughter to be doing?
YASER AWAWDEH, FATHER OF YUSRA: To be a good student in the school, you know, not to have any problem with the security, with the principal, with the teacher. And I think nothing wrong with that, to have the sticker on the book or her jacket or scarf on her neck, nothing wrong with that.
HINOJOSA (voice-over): The Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee says it's about more than stickers.
MONICA TARAZI, ARAB ANTI-DISCRIMINATION COMMITTEE: School is a place where students should be finding out about conflicts about the world, should be founding out about controversial topics, should be forming their opinions, and should be able to begin expressing those opinions.
HINOJOSA: That's not how Yusra felt.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I looked like a terrorist when they were searching me. Taking off my shoes? What is it, an airport?
HINOJOSA: Yet she says no one will stop her from representing her country, both of them.
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Yusra Awawdeh is with me now to further discuss this issue.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Thank you.
ZAHN: So you're wearing exactly what you were wearing on Tuesday when you got into trouble?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes. Yes.
ZAHN: When the security guards or guard yanked you out of class, did they tell you why?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No. I asked her why. She said, "You know that we don't discuss this." And they don't tell us anything.
ZAHN: So no one gave you any reason for why you had to be patted down on your abdomen?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, ma'am.
ZAHN: Where else did they touch you?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I wasn't patted. They searched me. They made me take off my shoes. They made me put my hands on my stomach and pull my pants up to see if I had anything there. She searched my jacket pockets and told me, if I had anything in my pants. I was, like, "No, nothing." Asked me if I had anything personal in my jacket. I said no.
They took out everything. They told me, "Watch me when I'm taking out the things out of your jacket." I watched them before they took anything from me. And they told me to take off my stickers off my book, told me to put -- when I walked in, she told me -- the dean told me to take this off, take off my button, and not to represent anything in this country but American colors.
ZAHN: So, as you're being frisked -- and I guess, in essence, you're patting yourself down when they're checking out your abdomen...
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes.
ZAHN: ... did you say: "What do you want? What are you looking for?"
YUSRA AWAWDEH: They told me that there's this sticker going around in school saying "Long live the intifada," "Zionism equal racism." And I so-called had a sticker like it. But on the bottom, it said "Arab Women Association." And the sticker going around on the bottom says "Arab Women Association. " So, after that, she was like, "Do you know who's doing it?"
I was like, "No, I do not know."
ZAHN: So you deny having put up any of those stickers around the school.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: Yes. I would not.
ZAHN: Do you deny that you've done any kind of vandalism around the school?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No, I never did it.
ZAHN: And do you think that is what the school is going to come back and say? Because that's what we were being told, that you're being accused of some kind of vandalism around the school and that's why they did this to you.
YUSRA AWAWDEH: That's why they searched me. They were looking for stickers. But the way they were searching me, they looked like they weren't looking for stickers.
ZAHN: They were looking for what?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: I felt like they were looking for weapons or bombs or something on me.
ZAHN: Do you understand, though, the heightened concern just about everybody has post-September 11? Do you understand why someone might overreact and maybe think that? Or do you think that's just totally inexcusable?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: It's inexcusable. It's a school. Why would I walk in school like that, you know? I was born here. I'm American.
ZAHN: Do you think that maybe they thought you were trying to provoke other students in some way?
YUSRA AWAWDEH: No. I've been representing Palestine in that school for three years. Nobody ever told me anything. Nobody told me to put away my stickers. Nobody told me to put this, my scarf, away. Nobody told me I can't put a button on my jacket.
ZAHN: Yusra Awawdeh, thank you very much for dropping by.
Just a reminder: We did make an attempt to contact not only the school, but the principal as well, to get their side of the story of what led to this frisking incident. They declined to comment.
Still ahead: It is the most magical moment of a couple's life, sandwiched, of course, between car commercials.
Stay with us to see how the happy couple came together with our own Anderson Cooper.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ZAHN: When you propose to a woman, I'm told there are a couple of things that you want to get right. Obviously, you want her to say yes. You want your proposal to be romantic. And, most of all, you want your proposal to bring in the coveted 18-to-34-year-old demographic that advertisers love.
By those criteria, TV's "The Bachelor," Aaron Beurge, scored at least two out of the three last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: So, Helene, will you marry me?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes, I will, without a doubt.
BEURGE: Without a doubt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Aww.
Our own Anderson Cooper hasn't been invited to the bachelor party, but he is still so moved. And he managed to get some quality time with the bachelor today. Were you blown away?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Yes. We had our very romantic 10 minutes together, me, Aaron and Helene.
ZAHN: And how were they?
COOPER: They were interesting.
There were so many romantic moments in the eight weeks or so that that show was on the air. There was the time that Aaron made out with Helene in the tub. There was the time that Aaron made out with Christi in the pool.
ZAHN: Was that was around the same time, that all of these makeup sessions were going on?
COOPER: Yes, it was pretty much the same day. And there was the time Aaron made out with Brooke in the Jacuzzi. And who could forget that? And so, there were a lot of just good times I remember.
But, yes, did I meet with Aaron and his perhaps bride-to-be today. And one thing is clear. The reality show is over, but the reality of real life is just beginning for these two.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
BEURGE: So I have a pretty big question for you. COOPER: So, Helene, in the show last night, you said you accepted Aaron's proposal without a doubt. It's been like 2 1/2 months since you finished shooting. Do you have any doubts?
EKSTEROWICZ: I don't know. At this point, I really don't have any doubts. I just want us to get to know each other a little bit better outside of "The Bachelor" and see where it goes from there. But I'm very optimistic.
COOPER: How is it going to work, Aaron? You live in Missouri. She's lives in New Jersey. Long-distance things are tough.
BEURGE: Yes, they are.
COOPER (voice-over): Aaron is intent on living in Springfield, Missouri, opening up a sports bar. Helene seems less than thrilled with the notion of moving there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
EKSTEROWICZ: Now, where is your apartment in relation to this? Right upstairs.
BEURGE: Right above us.
EKSTEROWICZ: Is it going to be loud?
BEURGE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (on camera): Helene, are you ready to move to Springfield and live in a sports bar?
(LAUGHTER)
EKSTEROWICZ: Live above the sports bar? Yes, with earplugs. No, I can say I don't feel like I'm going to move tomorrow. But after I get to know him and if things go as well as they have been, then I wouldn't have any problem.
COOPER (voice-over): Sports bars definitely are not very romantic. And romance, or the dream of it, is what "The Bachelor" was all about. It was a reality romance, the premise ridiculous, a fantasy. But viewers didn't care -- one man chosen to choose from a harem of willing women.
At first, the women appeared modern-day icons. They were coifed, coutured, confident. But after a few episodes, a couple of dates, some of them simply snapped. There was Christi crying, clingy Christi. After one date to Napa, she was in love. Unfortunately for her, Aaron wasn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
CHRISTI: I'm not going to be OK. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And then there was Heather, a Texas beauty queen, who wrapped herself around Aaron and wouldn't let go, until that is, he let her go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BACHELOR")
HEATHER: What have I done wrong? What did I do to deserve this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Even now, Aaron is not sure what to make of all the drama.
(on camera): Were you surprised at how quickly some of these women said that they fell in love with you? Christi, Heather, they all seemed like one date to Napa -- it must have been a pretty great date.
BEURGE: Yes. It amazed me to see how strongly they reacted after those dates. I don't understand why. It's not like that happens in the real world after I've known somebody for only a week or 10 days.
COOPER (voice-over): Maybe it had something to do with the hot tub. He sure did like that hot tub. For a Midwest male, he seemed like a big city slicker making out and mauling many amidst the bubbles and steam.
(on camera): Yes, what is it with you and hot tubs?
BEURGE: I have a hot tub fetish, I guess. I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: What was it like, Helene, watching him play tongue hockey with people in a hot tub?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes.
Well, I'd be lying to say that it didn't affect me or anything else. I've had some questions go about in my head, just questioning his sincerity, because here is at the last show saying, "I'm in love with you." And then, "Well, then why were you doing all that other stuff?" It's been a little bit difficult.
COOPER: How do you answer those questions?
BEURGE: It's been difficult.
COOPER (voice-over): After dumping most of the dames, last night, Aaron had to choose between two. Many thought he would choose Brooke, a 22-year-old Alabama pixie, young, sweet, ready for love.
But, instead, it was Helene, smart, tough and, surprisingly, brunette. The show was a blizzard of blonde. Today, they seemed happy, dazed by all the media attention, cautious about what would come. Aaron, for one, seemed ready to cover his bets.
(on camera): And I hope this isn't an offensive question, Aaron. But if this doesn't work out between you, would you consider looking up someone from the show, Gwen or Brooke or someone else?
BEURGE: Regardless of the outcome, I don't see any reason why I couldn't be in touch with Gwen as friends or pen pals, or anybody else from the show. I think everybody left with nothing but great things to say about each other. So, yes, I fully anticipate that I'll be in touch with them on a friendly basis.
COOPER: That's OK with you?
EKSTEROWICZ: Yes, that's fine, as long it's just as friends, I guess.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ah, yes, it was quite a meeting there with Aaron and Helene.
ZAHN: What kind of a vibe did you get off the two of them?
COOPER: It was interesting. Clearly, they have not spent much time together. The show ended actually -- it ended taping like two -- September 6 or so. So they haven't had an opportunity to be together.
ZAHN: They haven't been together since then?
COOPER: Once or twice, they had secret meetings, but also not really without cameras. So they're still sort of caught up in like this whole media frenzy.
And I don't know. You look at them kind of when they're actually in their down moments together, like eating today at lunch, and they just kind of don't have much to talk about, frankly. But we'll see. Who knows?
ZAHN: It's so bizarre.
COOPER: Love can conquer all.
ZAHN: Oh, love can conquer all. But do you ever see the two of them walking down the aisle together, I don't know, in the 10 minutes of quality time that you had with the happy couple?
COOPER: I don't really see her wanting to live above some sports bar in Springfield, Missouri. But maybe that's just me. I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
ZAHN: Now back to the subject of you. Our audience may not know tonight that I am sitting next to the man "People" magazine has proclaimed one of the sexiest journalists on TV. I am so lucky.
COOPER: Well, yes. I believe it was sexiest newscaster alive.
ZAHN: Alive?
COOPER: Not just on TV. I would like to...
ZAHN: I hope you're enjoying this moment.
Great to see you again.
COOPER: Nice to see you.
ZAHN: Thanks, Anderson.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Tomorrow: Why does the Pentagon need to know what you buy in order to keep you safe? Is this protecting America or threatening what it stands for?
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Julie Andrews. Will she ever sing again?
We really appreciate you watching tonight. Have a good night. Hope to see you tomorrow morning for "AMERICAN MORNING." It begins at 7:00 a.m. Eastern.
Again, thanks for joining us.
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