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American Morning
Officials Say Hezbollah Has Sleeper Cells in U.S.
Aired November 21, 2002 - 08:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There has been a lot of talk lately about all the terrorist groups that are up and operating. We just mentioned Hamas, now claiming responsibility for that suicide bombing in Jerusalem that we believe has killed at least 11 people, many of them schoolchildren. More than 50 people injured.
Now, there is another terrorist group you've also heard of called Hezbollah. That has also been described as the A Team of terrorism, more dangerous even than al Qaeda, some think. What's more, the group has been teaming up with al Qaeda, according to U.S. intelligence, and some officials say Hezbollah has sleeper cells right here in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: Absolutely and no doubt larger in number than al Qaeda. Because al Qaeda was the international terrorist group that hit us on September the 11th, we focused most of our attention on that one organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Jeffrey Goldberg of "The New Yorker" magazine has been reporting about Hezbollah's presence in this country for a long time now.
He joins us now from Washington.
Good morning, Jeffrey.
Thanks for joining us.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG, "THE NEW YORKER": Good morning.
ZAHN: Tell us a little bit about the numbers that we can confirm of Hezbollah members operating right here in the United States.
GOLDBERG: Well, that we don't know. I mean the nature of sleeper cells is that they're asleep and we have no way of knowing how many cells there are. We know of two cells because they've been broken up by law enforcement, one in North Carolina and one in Michigan. But beyond that, it's impossible to say.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the one in North Carolina that was penetrated. What were these guys involved with, cigarette smuggling?
GOLDBERG: These guys were involved in cigarette smuggling. They would smuggle cigarettes out of North Carolina to Michigan, take the profits and use some of those profits to buy military equipment for Hezbollah and have it shipped back to Lebanon. The interesting question, and this is, American intelligence officials believe that this cell had operational capability, as well. In other words, it wasn't simply a fundraising cell, but that it could have, if receiving an order, say, from Lebanon or from Iran, which is the sponsor of Hezbollah, it could have gone operational and conducted a terrorist attack.
ZAHN: Of what kind? Car bombings? Truck bombings? What do we believe they are capable of pulling off?
GOLDBERG: Hezbollah is very good at, Hezbollah invented, essentially, the suicide bomb. So they're obviously capable of that. They're capable of acquiring explosives and detonating them. I don't think that they're capable of committing a terror attack the size of the World Trade Center, but of course, you know, I could be wrong about that.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the dozen or so cells we know the FBI is keeping an eye on. Why are they in this country if they haven't gone operational yet? Is it to raise money, as you suggested with this North Carolina cell, for the larger organization?
GOLDBERG: Hezbollah has a budget each year of over $100 million. Most of that is provided by Iran, but they need to make, but Hezbollah itself needs to make up the balance. It does this by engaging in criminal activities in various parts of the world. But -- and here's the important point -- Hezbollah is, in a sense, Iran's life insurance policy. If the Bush administration, in a phase three, let's call it, of the war on terror, decides to take on Iran, Iran has the capability, through these cells and through other means, of striking at America at home. It's the kind of capability that I guess Saddam Hussein would love to have.
ZAHN: So help us understand this this morning. If the FBI believes that some of these cells already have that operational capability, why haven't they struck?
GOLDBERG: Why haven't the cells struck?
ZAHN: Yes.
GOLDBERG: Well, there is a tacit cease-fire, I guess you could call it, between Hezbollah, between Iran and the United States that goes back to 1996 after the Khobar Towers bombing. Hezbollah knows -- and I, and when I was in Lebanon recently, Hezbollah officials admitted as much -- we don't want to anger the United States when they're already angry about terrorism. It's something that they keep on the shelf and if they need it, if the United States, for instance, does as Bob Graham wants it to do and attacks Hezbollah bases in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon, then it will certainly activate its cells here.
But for the moment, it's trying to lay low and let al Qaeda take the brunt of American anger. ZAHN: All right, you just raised the issue of al Qaeda. What do we know about any ties between al Qaeda and Hezbollah?
GOLDBERG: Well, you have to remember with terror groups, even though Hezbollah is a Shiite group and al Qaeda is a Sunni group, these groups all swim in the same sewer. These guys exchange information, they exchange intelligence, they exchange weapons and tactics. We know that there is an al Qaeda presence in Lebanon in some of the Palestinian camps and we know that there have been high level contacts between Hezbollah terrorist leaders and al Qaeda leaders.
Beyond that, it's very hard to say because by the nature of this, these contacts are made as surreptitiously as possible. But there is definite...
ZAHN: Jeff, if you'd stand by, because I want you to react to this, we're going to go to Brent Sadler.
We understand he has some breaking news out of Beirut, Lebanon on this very note. It has something to do with Hezbollah -- Brent, good morning.
What have you learned?
BRENT SADLER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Paula.
It's not specifically to do with Hezbollah, but it's possibly to do with terror. And this is the shooting of an American missionary, a nurse, several hours ago in the southern Lebanese port city of Saidon. Now, this area is very close to a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism around and inside the Analhilweh (ph) Palestinian refugee camp. Inside that camp, Islamic Jihad, Hamas and other groups opposed to Israel's -- sorry, U.S. support of Israel and U.S. policy towards Iraq.
Now, what we know about this killing of an American missionary, Bonnie Weatherall, aged about 30, is that a lone gunman, according to police, went into a church run clinic at the southern end of Saidon, this port city about 30 miles south of Beirut, and fired at least three shots, .7 millimeter bullets, into the head and then fled the scene.
Now, the United States embassy has sent two officials down to Saidon, as, indeed, has the British embassy, because the American missionary who worked for the Alliance Church, Alliance and Missionary Church -- it has about six churches here in Lebanon -- she was married to a Briton, Gary Weatherall. He, along with the president of the church which ran the clinic, have been giving information to judicial authorities here in Lebanon over the past few hours and obviously concerned that there may be terror associations with this. But still no confirmation of motive at this stage -- Paula.
ZAHN: Brent Sadler, thank you.
Let's go to Jeffrey Goldberg. Jeffrey, we were told there might be some sort of Hezbollah connection. Clearly, that is not what Brent had to say, as they investigate what sort of terrorist ties there could potentially be to this latest shooting.
Just a final thought for us this morning about the level of concern Americans should have about these sleeper cells living among us.
GOLDBERG: They should be extremely concerned. These are groups -- keep in mind, Hezbollah, until September 11 of last year, killed more Americans than any other terror group. They're responsible for the marine barracks bombing in Beirut, which people remember. This is an extraordinarily dangerous group that is motivated by the ideology of Ayatollah Khomeini. It hates Americans and they're very, very capable. So it's something to not worry unduly about, but it's something to keep an eye on.
ZAHN: And as a man who's spent a lot of time in Lebanon, you would not be surprised to hear that this latest killing of a missionary is in some way related to terrorism?
GOLDBERG: Oh, I'm, that can, the only question is who. But I would fully imagine that camp, you know, Analhilweh, is actually one of the places that al Qaeda has an affiliate group. So that wouldn't be, it wouldn't be surprising at all.
ZAHN: Jeffrey Goldberg, thanks for all your insights this morning.
Glad to have you on with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 21, 2002 - 08:05 Â ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There has been a lot of talk lately about all the terrorist groups that are up and operating. We just mentioned Hamas, now claiming responsibility for that suicide bombing in Jerusalem that we believe has killed at least 11 people, many of them schoolchildren. More than 50 people injured.
Now, there is another terrorist group you've also heard of called Hezbollah. That has also been described as the A Team of terrorism, more dangerous even than al Qaeda, some think. What's more, the group has been teaming up with al Qaeda, according to U.S. intelligence, and some officials say Hezbollah has sleeper cells right here in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: Absolutely and no doubt larger in number than al Qaeda. Because al Qaeda was the international terrorist group that hit us on September the 11th, we focused most of our attention on that one organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Jeffrey Goldberg of "The New Yorker" magazine has been reporting about Hezbollah's presence in this country for a long time now.
He joins us now from Washington.
Good morning, Jeffrey.
Thanks for joining us.
JEFFREY GOLDBERG, "THE NEW YORKER": Good morning.
ZAHN: Tell us a little bit about the numbers that we can confirm of Hezbollah members operating right here in the United States.
GOLDBERG: Well, that we don't know. I mean the nature of sleeper cells is that they're asleep and we have no way of knowing how many cells there are. We know of two cells because they've been broken up by law enforcement, one in North Carolina and one in Michigan. But beyond that, it's impossible to say.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the one in North Carolina that was penetrated. What were these guys involved with, cigarette smuggling?
GOLDBERG: These guys were involved in cigarette smuggling. They would smuggle cigarettes out of North Carolina to Michigan, take the profits and use some of those profits to buy military equipment for Hezbollah and have it shipped back to Lebanon. The interesting question, and this is, American intelligence officials believe that this cell had operational capability, as well. In other words, it wasn't simply a fundraising cell, but that it could have, if receiving an order, say, from Lebanon or from Iran, which is the sponsor of Hezbollah, it could have gone operational and conducted a terrorist attack.
ZAHN: Of what kind? Car bombings? Truck bombings? What do we believe they are capable of pulling off?
GOLDBERG: Hezbollah is very good at, Hezbollah invented, essentially, the suicide bomb. So they're obviously capable of that. They're capable of acquiring explosives and detonating them. I don't think that they're capable of committing a terror attack the size of the World Trade Center, but of course, you know, I could be wrong about that.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the dozen or so cells we know the FBI is keeping an eye on. Why are they in this country if they haven't gone operational yet? Is it to raise money, as you suggested with this North Carolina cell, for the larger organization?
GOLDBERG: Hezbollah has a budget each year of over $100 million. Most of that is provided by Iran, but they need to make, but Hezbollah itself needs to make up the balance. It does this by engaging in criminal activities in various parts of the world. But -- and here's the important point -- Hezbollah is, in a sense, Iran's life insurance policy. If the Bush administration, in a phase three, let's call it, of the war on terror, decides to take on Iran, Iran has the capability, through these cells and through other means, of striking at America at home. It's the kind of capability that I guess Saddam Hussein would love to have.
ZAHN: So help us understand this this morning. If the FBI believes that some of these cells already have that operational capability, why haven't they struck?
GOLDBERG: Why haven't the cells struck?
ZAHN: Yes.
GOLDBERG: Well, there is a tacit cease-fire, I guess you could call it, between Hezbollah, between Iran and the United States that goes back to 1996 after the Khobar Towers bombing. Hezbollah knows -- and I, and when I was in Lebanon recently, Hezbollah officials admitted as much -- we don't want to anger the United States when they're already angry about terrorism. It's something that they keep on the shelf and if they need it, if the United States, for instance, does as Bob Graham wants it to do and attacks Hezbollah bases in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon, then it will certainly activate its cells here.
But for the moment, it's trying to lay low and let al Qaeda take the brunt of American anger. ZAHN: All right, you just raised the issue of al Qaeda. What do we know about any ties between al Qaeda and Hezbollah?
GOLDBERG: Well, you have to remember with terror groups, even though Hezbollah is a Shiite group and al Qaeda is a Sunni group, these groups all swim in the same sewer. These guys exchange information, they exchange intelligence, they exchange weapons and tactics. We know that there is an al Qaeda presence in Lebanon in some of the Palestinian camps and we know that there have been high level contacts between Hezbollah terrorist leaders and al Qaeda leaders.
Beyond that, it's very hard to say because by the nature of this, these contacts are made as surreptitiously as possible. But there is definite...
ZAHN: Jeff, if you'd stand by, because I want you to react to this, we're going to go to Brent Sadler.
We understand he has some breaking news out of Beirut, Lebanon on this very note. It has something to do with Hezbollah -- Brent, good morning.
What have you learned?
BRENT SADLER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Paula.
It's not specifically to do with Hezbollah, but it's possibly to do with terror. And this is the shooting of an American missionary, a nurse, several hours ago in the southern Lebanese port city of Saidon. Now, this area is very close to a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism around and inside the Analhilweh (ph) Palestinian refugee camp. Inside that camp, Islamic Jihad, Hamas and other groups opposed to Israel's -- sorry, U.S. support of Israel and U.S. policy towards Iraq.
Now, what we know about this killing of an American missionary, Bonnie Weatherall, aged about 30, is that a lone gunman, according to police, went into a church run clinic at the southern end of Saidon, this port city about 30 miles south of Beirut, and fired at least three shots, .7 millimeter bullets, into the head and then fled the scene.
Now, the United States embassy has sent two officials down to Saidon, as, indeed, has the British embassy, because the American missionary who worked for the Alliance Church, Alliance and Missionary Church -- it has about six churches here in Lebanon -- she was married to a Briton, Gary Weatherall. He, along with the president of the church which ran the clinic, have been giving information to judicial authorities here in Lebanon over the past few hours and obviously concerned that there may be terror associations with this. But still no confirmation of motive at this stage -- Paula.
ZAHN: Brent Sadler, thank you.
Let's go to Jeffrey Goldberg. Jeffrey, we were told there might be some sort of Hezbollah connection. Clearly, that is not what Brent had to say, as they investigate what sort of terrorist ties there could potentially be to this latest shooting.
Just a final thought for us this morning about the level of concern Americans should have about these sleeper cells living among us.
GOLDBERG: They should be extremely concerned. These are groups -- keep in mind, Hezbollah, until September 11 of last year, killed more Americans than any other terror group. They're responsible for the marine barracks bombing in Beirut, which people remember. This is an extraordinarily dangerous group that is motivated by the ideology of Ayatollah Khomeini. It hates Americans and they're very, very capable. So it's something to not worry unduly about, but it's something to keep an eye on.
ZAHN: And as a man who's spent a lot of time in Lebanon, you would not be surprised to hear that this latest killing of a missionary is in some way related to terrorism?
GOLDBERG: Oh, I'm, that can, the only question is who. But I would fully imagine that camp, you know, Analhilweh, is actually one of the places that al Qaeda has an affiliate group. So that wouldn't be, it wouldn't be surprising at all.
ZAHN: Jeffrey Goldberg, thanks for all your insights this morning.
Glad to have you on with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
GOLDBERG: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
