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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
U.N. Weapons Inspectors Begin Work in Iraq; Roger Ebert Examines Holiday Movies
Aired November 27, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I'm Bill Hemmer, in for Connie Chung.
And tonight: for the first time in four years, U.N. weapons inspectors back on the hunt in Iraq.
ANNOUNCER: The hunt is on. U.N. weapons inspectors begin their work in Baghdad, away from cameras, behind closed doors. Tonight: CNN's Christiane Amanpour and her one-on-one interview with the man in charge of finding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, Hans Blix.
The journalist whose writing sparked bloody riots in Nigeria is marked for death by Islamic fundamentalists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Irresponsible journalism in Nigeria bears responsibility for what happened in Nigeria.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Who's really to blame for burning, looting and killing in the name of Allah?
The holidays are here and it's time for the feast. How can something that looks so good be so bad for you? Tonight: food for Thanksgiving thought.
And a bounty of coming attractions, sequels, Oscar hopefuls and big-budget crowd pleasers -- a look at the holiday fare with Roger Ebert.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: sitting in for Connie Chung, Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: And good evening. Good to have you with us tonight.
And tonight, we are going to find out what inspectors have found on their first day of searching for weapons of mass destruction, again, day one today. That is one front in the war on terror.
Meanwhile, here on the home front, we want to start with the tens of millions of Americans on the road or on the rails or in the sky this week and traveling for Thanksgiving today, tomorrow and well into the weekend. It is the first big holiday travel period since federal screeners took up their posts at so many airports across the country. But it also comes at a time when politicians say they fear another major attack on American soil is possible.
CNN's Patty Davis has been tracking Thanksgiving travel by air today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIE WILLIAMS: Just have a safe trip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Security Chief Willie Williams is a man with a mission -- to keep passengers moving at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport this Thanksgiving.
WILLIAMS: There's three open lanes at the end if you're interested.
DAVIS: Williams expects a quarter of a million passengers to pass through his airport each day during the holiday rush. AAA estimates there will be six percent more airline passengers this Thanksgiving holiday than last year.
STEVE TIPPO, FEDERAL SCREENER: Please take all laptops out of the bag. Try to divest yourself of all your coins, metal items.
DAVIS: Thanksgiving is the first big test for Steve Tippo, one of 1,200 new federal screeners in Atlanta, and more than 44,000 deployed at airports across the country in the last few months. Will that mean delays?
TIPPO: People are going to have a little bit of a delay. But I think we're ready for it. I think the people are pretty much ready for it. I think they've been educated and I think we should be all set.
DAVIS: The Transportation Security Administration has launched a massive education campaign so passengers know what to expect. Make sure you have photo I.D., don't bring prohibited items in your carry- ons such as knives and metal scissors, don't wear metal jewelry or big soled shoes. Travel experts say keep an eye on airports that are beginning to screen all checked baggage for explosives, like the international terminal at San Francisco.
TOM PARSONS, BESTFARES.COM: San Francisco is the first airport that they actually put everything in place, from the new security of the bags, it's 100 percent checked. Everything has to be inspected either by humans or through machinery.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS: Well, Bill, how that goes could be a good indication of how the Christmas travel rush goes. Across the nation, most airports will be required to do a screening of all checked luggage. And that could certainly slow things down -- Bill.
HEMMER: Quickly, Patty, delays today: What did you perceive across the country?
DAVIS: Well, the crush of travelers that hit the airports really didn't seem to pose much of a problem for these new federal screeners. Overall, the Transportation Security Administration is saying delays about five minutes across the nation at those screening checkpoints.
HEMMER: Overall, thumbs-up or thumbs-down for the federal screeners on their first big test?
DAVIS: Well, thumbs-up, at least for the Atlanta federal screeners. They were able to catch a handgun today. And that's actually the second day in a row that they've caught a handgun coming through the passenger screening checkpoints. The one today was unloaded, a .44-caliber handgun, two ammunition clips alongside that.
That man, the owner of that bag, was arrested, in police custody, charged with carrying on a concealed weapon -- Bill.
HEMMER: Well, they got it when they could. Thank you, Patty -- Patty Davis, Reagan National today.
Joining us now with more on homeland security, as we head into the holiday, certainly a major topic again today, CNN's Jeanne Meserve is in Washington.
Jeanne, good evening to you.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: What do we know right now about specific threats across the country. Anything on the radar?
MESERVE: We know about one.
The FBI has sent out to local law enforcement agencies a warning about the potential for violence over the Thanksgiving weekend from an animal rights group. The group, which the FBI characterizes as extremist, is called SHAC, for Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty. The demonstrations this weekend are expected in New Jersey and New York City.
According to the FBI, protests could also occur at the homes of HLS employee, the company's insurance firm, and other undetermined targets -- Bill.
HEMMER: I heard New York in there. I heard New Jersey. Other parts of the country, anything given there or not, Jeanne?
MESERVE: No.
I should mention, also, in New York, you got have the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. I am told there probably will be extra security around that this year. Otherwise, it will be as it has been for the last several weeks, which is what's characterized as yellow- plus. The threat level has not gone up from yellow to orange.
But because of a series of recent events, including that audiotape believed to be Osama bin Laden, recent attacks in Bali and Yemen and elsewhere, and also recent chatter in the system, the federal government has asked federal agencies, state and local law enforcement, and the private sector to all increase their activity somewhat. They are very condition about the threat situation, but they don't have anything specific which would lead them to upgrade the threat level to orange.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeanne -- Jeanne Meserve in Washington on the national security front for us.
We want to turn now from the defensive to the offensive. U.N. inspectors today started their hunt across Iraq for any sign that Saddam Hussein has or is trying to get nuclear, chemical or possibly biological weapons.
Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, is in Baghdad. He followed the first teams today moving out from the capital city.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 7:00 a.m. and the first weapons inspectors are showing up at their base. Vehicles prepared for what could be a long day and journalists outside for a long wait.
(on camera): It's about 7:30 now. Most of the inspectors seem to have gone in. And everyone here is waiting for them to come out, so we can follow them to their first Inspection.
(voice-over): An hour later, engines gunning, the inspectors race out. And Iraqi officials have given us permission to follow.
(on camera): OK, now we're running to get into the cars, so that we can follow them.
(voice-over): We follow the team of nuclear experts. Turning right in their white U.N. jeeps, they pick up their Iraqi counterparts, who fall in behind.
Confusion for a moment, as the U.N. experts we're tailing appear to lose their way en route to the surprise inspection. By 9:00 a.m., the inspectors are arriving at the Tahadi industrial complex on the eastern outskirts of Baghdad.
Left outside in the enforced lockdown, under U.N. inspection rules, journalists jockey for scant camera positions. Through gaps in the barbed wire top wall surrounding the mile-square compound, inspectors can be seen taking photographs and visiting the dozen or so warehouses. By noon, the team of nuclear experts are finished, heading back to base.
Iraqi officials, keen to show they have nothing to hide, let us in as soon as the inspectors leave.
HAITHAM MAHMOUD, PLANT MANAGER: Nothing. Everything, it was in front of them. Thank you very much.
ROBERTSON: No weapons visible in the one building we were shown.
(on camera): This part of the factory appears to be for reconditioning heavy industrial motors. But we still don't know where the inspectors went or exactly what they were interested in.
(voice-over): According to Mahmoud, the inspectors saw all they wanted to see -- almost exactly the same language from the inspectors.
JACQUES BAUTE, IAEA TEAM LEADER: And we had access to what we wanted to see. We hope that the Iraqi response today reflects the future pattern of cooperation.
ROBERTSON: Day one, it seems, ended without major incident and without any weapons found.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: And, Bill, a cautionary note from one of the inspectors. "This day was a success," he said, "but there is a lot of work yet to be done" -- Bill.
HEMMER: Indeed there is.
Nic, you got pretty close today. Any reason to think that that will be the same tomorrow? Or, come day two, do you expect more restrictions regarding your access?
ROBERTSON: Our ability to follow them to the site, that really depends on Iraqi government officials. And, so far, they indicate that we can do that. They say that they want to show that they have nothing to hide. That's why they're letting it happen. Certainly, we don't expect the U.N. inspectors to let us on the site.
Really, I think we're just going to have to see how this unfolds over the next few days, Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, Nic, the other thing you point is that these were surprise stops today.
Curious to know, from your perspective, was there any indication that you picked up on behalf of the Iraqis that it was not a surprise, that perhaps they did anticipate one or two locations to be inspected on day one?
ROBERTSON: Negative, Bill.
They said they were surprised. And that's really how it seemed when we got to that first site. When we got there, it was kind of relaxed. And then they suddenly realized, boom, all these cars were there. The U.N. were there. Suddenly, the armed guards were being put outside. The director was being called to the gate. So, it did really look like the real deal -- Bill.
HEMMER: And quickly, Nic, the Iraqi officials monitoring the inspectors or monitoring the journalists, or even both at the same time, how closely were they watching today?
ROBERTSON: They seemed to watch pretty closely.
They travel around. They had at least as many vehicles and maybe twice as many people, from what I could see, as the inspectors had. They certainly had a lot of communications equipment with them. I think they are pretty on the ball as far as sort of following what the inspectors are doing and also keeping an eye on us at the same time, Bill.
HEMMER: Nic Robertson in Baghdad -- thanks, Nic.
Now, there has been a considerable amount of controversy about the man leading the inspectors right now hunting for weapons in Iraq. That man is Hans Blix. And today, he sat down for a very rare interview with our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.
And Christian is with us tonight here in New York.
Great to see you.
Day one, he said it went how?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As well as could be expected, so far, so good. He wasn't going to go into all the details of what had been found -- nothing, apparently, has been found -- that he's got to report back to the Security Council. But if this, he said, is a pattern of what we are going to expect over the next several weeks, well, this, is good.
HEMMER: The signs are positive, at least on day one, anyway.
AMANPOUR: Yes. But he made it very clear that there's a lot more tricky business to go through before there's a clean bill of health, if there's ever a clean bill of health given.
HEMMER: You spent about an hour with him today. Did he talk at all about how aggressive he wants his inspectors to be, how aggressive he wants them to fan out across this country and carry out the activity?
AMANPOUR: Well, he is very clear in repeating that he has a very clear mandate and a great deal of authority under the Security Council, that he can go anywhere, any time.
There mustn't be any closed doors, any file cabinets closed. There can't be disruptions with his vehicles, and this and that. But he said that he was not in the aggressive mode. That's not his character, nor does he believe that's appropriate, but that he will go wherever he wants to go. And this is what I asked him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: obviously, the White House, this administration has pretty much made it clear that it would like you to go and do confrontational inspections or surprise inspections, go to very sensitive locations to test Saddam Hussein's willingness to cooperate and to see whether this is a go or whether it's just the same old same old.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, we'll be ready to go anywhere where we think, as I said, it's plausible that there could be something. If they are hiding something then likely if they would deny us access. And denying access would then be like a smoke -- it's not finding a smoking gun, but finding the smoke, and that would be a very serious matter.
If they deny us access, we will report it to the Security Council. But even a delay of some little time will also be something that might be reported to the council.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And he went on to say that, obviously, the burden of proof is going to be on Iraq.
They can't just say, "Well, we don't have this or we don't have that," because there are things that the international community knows or suspects. So, they have to account for all of the details that are suspected. On the other hand, he did say it's not a criminal court and they can't prosecute them under criminal procedures, but there is a definite burden of proof on Iraq.
HEMMER: This is a man who has critics around the world. And his critics will say to him, for lack of a better word, they will call him a wimp. They say he is soft and he is not the man who can be tough enough against Saddam Hussein. You asked him about that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: As you know there's a drumbeat of criticism against you. Hard-liners in the United States administration, their allies inside and outside of government basically don't think you're up to the job. Things like "weak" have been bandied around, "wimp" has been bandied around.
Can you do this job?
BLIX: Well, I had 16 years at the International Atomic Energy Agency, and being responsible for that organization, and I was elected, re-elected three times, unanimously. I could have been elected a fourth time, re-elected a fourth time if I wanted. And I was unanimously picked by the members of the Security Council.
I think that the governments have confidence in me. There are a number of private individuals who are skeptical. Well, that's their business. But I have not had any criticism from any government.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: But, of course, as we've said, the fact is that there was a nuclear program fairly well under way and was stopped because of the Gulf War, essentially. And it was only defectors back in the mid- '90s who let the world know the true extent of the nuclear program.
HEMMER: Well, Hans Blix will tell you, the difference between now and 1998 or 1992 or however far back you want to go in the last 11 years, the difference today is that the U.N. Security Council tells Iraq: "You have to be truthful. You have to be forthcoming. Otherwise, the reaction could be severe. And it could be military. And that could make the difference this time around."
How did he address that today?
AMANPOUR: Well, he fully acknowledged that and said that the success of this mission is slightly more guaranteed than previous missions because of this tough, tough threat of invasion -- it doesn't get tougher than that -- that he's being backed up by.
So, again, I asked him about his critical, almost hair-trigger position right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Do you consider that your job could lead you to be a trigger for war?
BLIX: We would not be a trigger for war. But, of course, if we report a violation of some kind, that is for the Security Council to assess. We are not the ones that decide war and peace. It's the Iraqi and their behavior on the one hand, and the Security Council and its members on the other hand that decide on peace and war.
We will be factual. We will be objective. We will report as honestly as we humanly can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: He's had to address these questions of being weak and, as we just asked about, being a trigger.
Let's not forget, it has just emerged that the Clinton administration was about to order a preemptive strike on North Korea back around 1994 because Hans Blix told the administration and the Security Council that the North Koreans had not given him the access that he required to be able to describe their nuclear program.
So, here was this man back in '94 standing between a war on the Korean Peninsula and the solution. So, he knows what it's like to be in that position.
HEMMER: Back to Iraq. Now it is day one. We'll see what happens on day two. And how many days after that is an unanswered question now. AMANPOUR: December 8 the next milestone to look for, when they must provide their declaration of all their nuclear, chemical and biological programs.
HEMMER: We'll see you on down the road, OK? Christian, thanks -- Christian Amanpour here in New York.
When we come back in a moment: Does a recent rash of incidents suggest that extremist Islam might be overtaking the mainstream aspect of that religion? It is not just the Miss World riots we are talking about -- back with that in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Roger Ebert picks Hollywood's holiday best. Is your favorite on the list?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: In many cases, religion goes hand in hand with peace. But, clearly, it is not always that way.
Some believe Islam right now is going through an identity crisis: violent extremists trying to make their view of Islam the only view. For example, there's a Muslim leader in Nigeria saying it's the duty of all good Muslims to kill a young writer who offended them. He says the Koran, Islam's holy book, demands death for anyone who insults the prophet Muhammad. His words helped lead a mob in a deadly rampage recently.
The question tonight is: Why is this happening now and why is it just not in Africa, but in many parts around the globe?
From Lagos tonight, our bureau chief, Jeff Koinange, tells that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The trouble began when this woman, Amina Lawal, a Nigerian single mother, was sentenced to the death by stoning for having a child out of wedlock under a strict form of Islamic law know as Sharia. Several of the Miss World contestants decided to boycott the pageant.
Lawal became a cause celeb overseas and a political hot potato for Nigeria's beleaguered government. After assurances Lawal's sentence would be overturned, most of the Miss World contestants showed up, preferring to show support by their presence. But Islamic displeasure was growing with the mere presence of the contest, displeasure that was ignored by the largely Christian government.
Then came this: an English-language feature in one of the country's leading daily newspapers. In it, the writer suggested the prophet Muhammad would have condoned the staging of the pageant and might even have wished to marry one of the contestants. Excerpts from the article were translated into the local Hausa language. The comments outraged Muslims, particularly in the northern city of Kaduna, where mobs took to the street, killing Christians, burning churches and Christian homes. More than 200 people were killed and thousands more left injured and homeless.
Fearing the violence would spread to Abuja, the capital and site of the Miss World Pageant, organizers decided to switch venues. The Miss World contest was moved, lock, stock and evening gown, to London.
(on camera): The government blames the newspaper writer for the article. A Muslim leader in one of the country's northern Sharia states has issued a fatwa, an Islamic word for death sentence, against the journalist. Along with the Miss World contestants, she has since fled the country.
Jeff Koinange, CNN, Lagos, Nigeria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: We want to follow up to the story. For the record, the Muslim leader who issued that fatwa is not a fugitive terrorist. Rather, he is a government official working right now in Nigeria.
Meanwhile, in Pakistan, a country that's said to be America's ally, in recent elections, it showed extremist Muslim candidates, anti-American, pro-Taliban men enjoying alarming support from Pakistani people.
And, meanwhile, the White House position on Islam has stayed constant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: However, the recent events we've mentioned raise the question of whether or not Mr. Bush accurately reflects the reality of Islam in so many parts of the world. Or is radical Islam succeeding right now in redefining that faith?
Stephen Schwartz, author of "The Two Faces of Islam," is with us tonight from Washington. So, too, Rob Sobhani, professor at Georgetown University, joins us as well.
Gentlemen, good evening to both of you. Good to have you with us tonight.
Professor Sobhani, why is it that it appears right now the extremists around the globe are truly shaping the image of Islam as a religion? ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Bill, I think, to put it in historical context, Islam was hijacked by the Islamist revolution of 1979 by a man called Ayatollah Khomeini, whom all of us are familiar with.
"The death to America" that continued for the 22 years has given rise now to the Osama bin Ladens of the world, to the clerics in Pakistan. And what we have today is a situation where, as you mentioned, the true Islam is being hijacked and the vulgar nature of opportunists like bin Laden, like the clerics in Nigeria and elsewhere are taking charge.
It's time for the Muslim world to make a stand and free their religion from these hostage-takers.
HEMMER: Back up just a little bit. What did the ayatollah tap into back in 1979 that had such resonance around the world?
SOBHANI: Well, what he tapped into was basically a political situation in Iran that did not allow, necessarily, for freedom of expression.
But the irony is this, Bill. After 23 years of theocracy, the Iranian people, of all the people in the Muslim world, the Iranian people are rejecting Islam as a form of governance. And that's the opportunity for America. We have one Muslim nation that is rising up and saying: "You know what? We've had it with Islam as a form of governance. Islam as a form of governance is bankrupt."
And this is the opportunity for the rest of the Muslim world and for America in our war against terror.
HEMMER: Stephen Schwartz, I don't know if you agree with my initial point about whether or not the extremists appear to be winning or indeed are winning in terms of shaping Islam around the world. Do you agree with that, A? And...
STEPHEN SCHWARTZ, AUTHOR, "THE TWO FACES OF ISLAM": No, I don't think they're winning.
I think that 9/11 was a devastating setback for the Saudi Wahhabi extremist form of Islam. I think that the extremist agitation, the violence, the disruption we see in countries like Nigeria, Indonesia, the Philippines and elsewhere really is an expression of weakness rather than strength.
But I think what is going on is that there's a social crisis inside Saudi Arabia. And I do think that it's much more a problem of Saudi Arabia than of Iran, even in terms of the historical legacy, and that Wahhabism, the most extreme form of Islam, which is the state religion of Saudi. Saudi is attempting to export this everywhere throughout the Muslim world. From San Francisco to San Francisco, everywhere that there are Muslim found, the Saudis are there cultivating this form of extremist response.
HEMMER: But, Stephen, why is it, then, that the moderate voices around the world are not heard?
SCHWARTZ: Well, the moderate voices in America, Muslims are not heard, because, in America, the discourse on Islam is, in many respects, dominated by extremists.
In fact, in their own countries, many traditional Muslims and moderate Muslims are heard. After the Bali bombing in Indonesia, 70 million Muslims organized in two very large organizations, demanded a crackdown, the expulsion and the punishment of the terrorists. In the Balkans, Bosnia and Kosovo, in Turkey, in Central Asia, in many countries, in Morocco, in India, in many countries, Muslim, especially in Malaysia, the opponents of Islamic extremism are heard.
They're not heard in the United States. A lot of it -- and I say this as a reporter myself -- a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's a hard story. It's a hard story to go out to Malaysia and find an authoritative Muslim mufti who speaks good English and can talk about these issues.
HEMMER: Interesting point.
Professor, do you agree with that, A? And, B, who are the moderate voices that would go to a microphone, that would go to a podium, that would draft people who would say: "You know what? You're right and we're behind you because of that"?
SOBHANI: I could give you the example of a cab driver in New York City from Bangladesh who is a Muslim who would argue that Osama bin Laden should be put against the wall and shot to death because he murdered innocent people, including Muslims, on September 11.
What the United States government has not done and what we need to do is put on a plane 10 Muslim clerics and families of the victims of 9/11 and send them to Saudi Arabia, have them look into the camera, and say: "Your version of Islam is wrong. You're bastardizing our religion. You've hijacked our religion." And this would give voice and hope to the moderates in the region to come out.
HEMMER: Rob Sobhani, Stephen Schwartz, thank you both -- in D.C. with us tonight. Have a good holiday, men.
SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
SOBHANI: Thank you. Thanksgiving to you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, on a considerably lighter note, we will lighten it up just a bit. It is a holiday. What is Hollywood offering in the theaters? Kevin Kline stops by. And so, too, does Roger Ebert. We'll talk to them both in a moment here.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Next: Your eyes say yes, but your waistline says, "Oh, no." Surviving holiday feasts.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: One of the things a lot of people will give thanks for tomorrow on Thanksgiving is food right before consuming a staggering amount of it.
The average person is said to consume about 3,000 calories in a single Thanksgiving meal, more than the government recommends for an entire day. Enjoy that. You may just write off Thanksgiving as a day off from healthy eating, but does it have to be that way? That's our topic now.
Lisa Wheeler, editor from "Shape" magazine, has some guidance for us on this tonight.
Good to see you.
LISA WHEELER, EDITOR, "SHAPE": Thank you.
HEMMER: Happy Thanksgiving a day early.
WHEELER: Happy Thanksgiving.
HEMMER: We want to get to turkey talk in a second.
But first, two really interesting studies came out on Wednesday, today. "JAM" is reporting that this nutty diet, walnuts, peanut butter, may actually help keep Type II diabetes away. How does this work? What's the study say?
WHEELER: Absolutely.
Well, we've always known that nuts are good for you. They have really good nonsaturated fats and fiber and magnesium. But what the study shows is that it can actually balance out the insulin glucose level in your blood, which is a primary cause for Type II diabetes.
HEMMER: Does that replace something in your diet that you have to now switch or not?
WHEELER: Well, what they're saying is, if you're on a weight- loss diet -- which, obesity is a problem with Type II diabetes -- that you should substitute the nuts for your red meat that day.
HEMMER: Let's talk about fish right now.
"The New England Journal of Medicine" came out and essentially said something relative to the mercury level in fish may offset the benefits of fish. What's going on here?
WHEELER: Well, again, we have several studies that float around that contradict each other. But what this study is talking about is the level of mercury found, say, in swordfish, shark, tile and mackerel, that level is so high that we should avoid them, even though fish contains omega-3 fatty acids, which are excellent for you. So, you have to take into account if you're pregnant, nursing, or a child, you are more susceptible to the mercury that happens to be in this fish, which is not the natural mercury. It's the mercury that comes in from pollution.
HEMMER: OK, listen, let's talk turkey, huh? How about it?
WHEELER: Absolutely. Yes.
HEMMER: How do we, on this greatest day of the year, push ourselves away from the table?
WHEELER: You shouldn't push yourself away from the table.
That's the thing. Don't deprive yourself. But there's little things that you can do that will back the calories off and eliminate some of the fat and still be able to enjoy Thanksgiving dinner.
HEMMER: OK. Well, now, listen, we want to show our viewers here a bit of a sample dinner, I guess we could say, right?
WHEELER: Right.
HEMMER: If you take two servings of turkey, which is probably a conservative guess right now.
WHEELER: Absolutely.
HEMMER: About 344 calories, bit of gravy, 30 calories. Some stuffing is thrown in there, 178. You have got your cranberry sauce a little later. You put that on the plate as well, you're at 86 calories more. You've got some sweet potatoes, some string beans, 21 calories. And pumpkin pie checks in, finally, at 316 calories; 1,118 is the total. Most of us consume about 3,000, though.
WHEELER: I was about to say, that's a very small dinner at my house.
(LAUGHTER)
HEMMER: Well, if that's the case, then, where do you run into trouble, though? If you eat all that and you're still under the regular intake, you're doing OK, right?
WHEELER: Yes, because the things that you talked about, especially pumpkin pie -- that's the hidden favorite -- you can even bring those calories down a little bit by making it with nonfat evaporated milk, where a pecan pie is about 500 calories. You can almost have two pieces of pumpkin pie. Isn't that better?
HEMMER: And I really like pumpkin pie.
All right, you say there are some things that some people really should know. One of them is not skipping breakfast.
WHEELER: Yes. HEMMER: Thanksgiving is a day when everybody kind of waits to have that big intake at one time.
WHEELER: Exactly.
HEMMER: Why not skip?
WHEELER: Well, because we seem to approach Thanksgiving like we're never going to see turkey ever again.
So, you should treat it like a regular meal. If you skip breakfast, then you are going to be ravished by the time you get to the dinner table. And then you are going to eat more than you really need -- so a small breakfast.
HEMMER: But disciplined portion size, you also have some tips on that, too.
WHEELER: Portion.
If you simply cut the portion sizes -- like you said, a normal portion size generally is in the palm of your hand, or a 6-ounce piece of turkey is like two decks of cards. That's a portion size. We tend to double that come Thanksgiving dinner and mound up our plate like that. So, cutting portion size, keeping it small, get a smaller plate is going to help you right off the bat.
HEMMER: Quickly, the other thing you say is color. I never thought about this. Color means what, then?
WHEELER: Well, the more colorful -- that tends to be vegetables, sweet potatoes, rather than white potatoes -- there are going to be less calories and more of the nutrients that you need. So, the more colorful your plate is -- stay away from beige: gravy, mashed potatoes, stuffing. Try to put a little more color, a little less beige, and you're good to go.
HEMMER: Quickly, when that big old 20-pound turkey is now a carcass, after we pick at it repeatedly, the skin, do we eat it or not?
WHEELER: Skin: 110 calories and 10 grams of fat in one little piece of skin.
HEMMER: Really?
WHEELER: Throw it away.
HEMMER: But it's so darn good sometimes, too.
WHEELER: I know.
HEMMER: Lisa, have a great Turkey Day, OK?
WHEELER: You, too. Thank you.
HEMMER: Lisa Wheeler from "Shape" magazine stopping in tonight.
WHEELER: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, the holiday traditions, a few more of them for you tonight: the movies. Actor Kevin Kline is going to stop by. So, too, is super critic Roger Ebert. He is in Chicago. We'll talk with them both in a moment -- when we continue after this.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: the boy wizard, her majesty's secret agent, even jolly Saint Nick himself, movies worth seeing this weekend.
Get the thumbs-up from Roger Ebert -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: A little later, we're going to talk with Roger Ebert about the big holiday movies out.
But right now, one of the stars of the season's new movies is with us tone. Kevin Kline stars in "The Emperor's Club." And he plays a teacher locked in battle with a promising, but a rebellious student.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE EMPEROR'S CLUB")
KEVIN KLINE, ACTOR: Can you, in fact, name any of the emperors?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I know four.
KLINE: Very well.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: John, Paul, Ringo and George.
KLINE: Mr. Bell, a word of warning. With great wit, Aristophanes once wrote, roughly translated: "Youth ages. Immaturity is outgrown. Ignorance can be educated and drunkenness sobered. But stupid lasts forever."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Now, before Connie left for vacation this week, she sat down and talked with Kevin Kline about "The Emperor's Club" and also about, well, a very different kind of club.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: I want you to see something that I don't even know if you've seen it. This is E Online, alright? When I was reading the research, it has significant others, and it has your wife here first, but it has all these other women that you've dated.
KEVIN KLINE, ACTOR: A list?
CHUNG: You didn't know that, did you? KLINE: No, I did not.
CHUNG: This actress that you dated in the 1970s. See, I can't see it. It's...
KLINE: Oh, no -- yes, I can make it out.
CHUNG: Can you see it?
KLINE: Yes, I get the rough outline, yes.
CHUNG: And then you dated this actress. What does it say?
KLINE: Once.
CHUNG: Dated briefly.
KLINE: One night.
CHUNG: One night, OK.
KLINE: One date.
CHUNG: One date?
KLINE: Yes. It wasn't -- yes. Yes.
CHUNG: All right. And then this one dated from 19 -- together, it says, 1971 to 1978. True?
KLINE: '71 to '78. It's all a blur, but it sounds accurate, yes.
CHUNG: Isn't that amazing that they put that in? Also one other thing that I read about you, Kevin...
KLINE: What's amazing is what they left out.
CHUNG: Exactly. Because listen to this. "In press reports over the years, Kline has been linked romantically to so many women that his publicist once pointed out he'd be dead by now if he'd done half of it."
KLINE: That's true. That's true. Yes, I have been linked with people I have never met.
CHUNG: Did all of that finally end when you married Phoebe Cates?
KLINE: Yes. Now I've just been linked with her continually, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: And you've got two children.
KLINE: Yes.
CHUNG: And how old are they now?
KLINE: They're 11 and 8.
CHUNG: Great. They were actually in one of your movies.
KLINE: Well, yes.
CHUNG: And I'm actually a little surprised because you...
KLINE: I was shocked.
CHUNG: Oh...
(LAUGHTER)
KLINE: No, I was against the whole idea. But this was "Anniversary Party" that Phoebe's best friend, Jennifer Jason Lee wrote, and Phoebe actually came out of retirement because she's effectively retired from acting at the moment, and -- but because it was done so quickly -- it was done during the summer, did not disrupt school -- and because it was about having children and because Jennifer knew my son and daughter, she thought, well -- and because we wanted it to -- or they wanted it to not be like making a film, but sort of like going to a party, so they were included.
But I thought, "Well, no, they have to use other names. We don't want them" -- but then I got over that. And I thought, "Oh, they're having fun."
CHUNG: I've read before actually that you believe acting does not come naturally to you.
KLINE: I think it's finally begun to, but in the beginning it did not come easily to me. It was virtually impossible. I was really bad at it in college when I first started.
CHUNG: How could you be? I mean, what was wrong?
KLINE: Oh, I was very stiff, very physically -- I was kind of an athlete when I was in high school, and when I -- you know, you're suppose to not be terribly expressive with your body. So I wasn't. I was kind of rigid. And then when I got to Juilliard to really study in a focused way, they kind of beat that out of me, and I started to become more expressive.
CHUNG: Well, that's incredible because on -- I read some of the reviews of the plays which you won Tonys for, and one of them said you were like a jack in the box and you put acrobatics into your character.
KLINE: Yes. I made up for the paucity of lines with physical schtick.
CHUNG: All right. Tell us about this new movie, "The Emperor's Club." Quick synopsis.
KLINE: Dedicated teacher at a boy's academy. Very serious teacher about his work. Rather strict school. Into this classroom comes a disruptive, overly entitled, charismatic, attractive kid who kind of leads the class away from my authoritative position into a more, an archaic situation. And I -- there's a sort of battle between this kid and me. And I actually win him over and get him to apply himself. He starts studying.
But then, his true character emerges. And it becomes a lifelong thing, because the movie cuts to 25 years later. All these kids who are in this class have grown up and become movers and shakers.
CHUNG: You went to a prep school, right, from sixth grade to twelfth grade. It was an English-Catholic school run by Benedictine monks.
KLINE: Benedictine monks, yes. From Ampleforth Abbey in York, England. It was a bit stricter and bit more classical in its orientation than the other schools from St. Louis, where I grew up.
CHUNG: Do you think that was good for you?
KLINE: Yes, I do. I needed discipline. I think every adolescent needs some -- well, a good deal of discipline. And when you have very rigid rules, some of them make a military school, but there were certain things that were expected of you: certain decorum in the classroom, certain ways of behaving that showed respect to what was called the master, which we call today the teacher. But when the master came in the room, you stood up...
CHUNG: Right.
KLINE: ... never spoke out of turn, you wore a tie and you wore a jacket. And if you were bad, you were subject to corporal punishment of varying degrees...
CHUNG: Oh, dear.
KLINE: ... which is no longer the case at the school.
CHUNG: Right, right.
KLINE: But, yes, I think it's important.
Doing the movie was kind of an homage to my school. Aside from the story that the movie tells, there is a kind of homage to the dignity and the nobility of the teaching profession, especially the vocational teachers for whom it's not merely a job, but a lifelong devotion, which I was fortunate to have as my teacher.
CHUNG: All right, so career is going great. You've been married 13 years?
KLINE: What does it say there?
CHUNG: I think so.
KLINE: Yes, about -- yes, it seems like it.
CHUNG: I think that's a long time for a...
KLINE: I was in L.A., and I was doing an interview, and somebody said, "You have one of the longest marriages in Hollywood."
Really? That's long? It doesn't seem that long to me, but that's I think something -- there's something to be said for longevity.
CHUNG: It's a good thing.
KLINE: I feel quite fortunate, yes.
CHUNG: All right. I thank you so much for being with us.
KLINE: My pleasure.
CHUNG: Kevin Kline in "The Emperor's Club."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Connie Chung and Kevin Kline from earlier this week.
Next up for Kline: "Henry IV" here in New York City at Lincoln Center. That will start next fall.
When we come back: Want a good flick? Roger Ebert knows a thing or two about movies. We'll talk with him in Chicago after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All righty, let's face it here. It's the holiday. And even if you paid attention to that healthy eating segment a bit earlier, 24 hours from now, in all likelihood, you are going to be pretty full. Some of you may have had your fill with your family as well. So what to do then?
Well, if Hollywood's accountants have their way, you're going to head to the movies. And Roger Ebert of "The Chicago Sun-Times" and the "Ebert & Roeper" TV show is now with us from the windy and now the cold city of Chicago, too, about 18 degrees there on Wednesday afternoon.
Roger, good evening. Great to have you here.
ROGER EBERT, "EBERT & ROEPER": Hi, Bill. How are you?
HEMMER: I'm doing just fine.
Let's start with Nick Clooney -- George Clooney, the son of Nick Clooney.
EBERT: Yes. George Clooney has a film coming up that opens today, actually, "Solaris," directed by Steven Soderbergh. It's a remake of a Russian film from 30 years ago, a classic about a space station that's circling a planet that can apparently read the minds of the people in the station and supply them with their wishes.
And when he wakes up his first night on the station, his dead wife is in bed next to him.
HEMMER: Wow.
EBERT: And, of course, this is not really his wife, but it's everything he knows about his wife. And so it gets into a real interesting meditation on human identity.
HEMMER: It seems like it.
Let's take a quick look at that clip right now, George Clooney playing a psychiatrist in this film.
EBERT: And Natascha McElhone as his wife, yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SOLARIS")
GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: When do you want to get hitched?
NATASCHA MCELHONE, ACTRESS: It's so difficult for me.
CLOONEY: Still? Is it something that I'm not doing?
MCELHONE: No. No, no, no, that's not the issue at all.
CLOONEY: Because, you know, if you keep putting this off, then, in 15 or 20 years, I'm just going to stop asking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: A bit of a sci-fi there. Thumbs-up or thumbs-down? What did you think?
EBERT: Oh, I give that thumbs-up, yes. It's a very good movie. And it's part of Clooney's career attempt, I think, to position himself more seriously, not just as a matinee idol.
HEMMER: I got it.
Two animated films to take a look at. One is "Treasure Planet." The other one is "8 Crazy Nights."
Here's "Treasure Planet" for our audience to take a look at now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TREASURE PLANET")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: South by southwest, Mr. Turnbuckle (ph). Heading to 100.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Aye, captain, to 100.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Full speed, Mr. Arrow, if you please.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Take her away!
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Brace yourself, Doctor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: It looks like it might be fun. Good choice for the family? Bring the kids or not?
EBERT: Probably a good choice for the younger members of the family. I didn't like it that much. I had a little bit of a problem not only with the idea of real pirate ships in outer space -- which I could sort of accept -- but with the fact that it didn't really just have that magic and sparkle that we expect from the Disney holiday pictures.
But if you're looking for an animated film to go to this weekend, that would be your choice, I think, or another Disney release called "Spirited Away," rather than "8 Crazy Nights," the new Adam Sandler film, which is being advertised as jolly Hollywood fun. And this movie is violent. And it's got a potty mouth. And I don't know who it's for. I think it will offend a lot of people, both older and younger.
HEMMER: Not much for the family to go there.
Hey, listen, "James Bond" and "Harry Potter," we all know about them. We've been talking about them for weeks, in fact. You liked them both, as a matter of fact. But there is a movie that came down in "Sundance" that you really like, too: "Real Women Have Curves." I want to talk about...
EBERT: "Real Women Have Curves," yes, that is playing around the country right now, with a wonderful lead performance by America Ferrera, and the great Lupe Ontiveros on her mother.
And this is the story about a chubby Mexican-American girl in Los Angeles who has her sights on a career and on going to college and on not necessarily doing what her family wants her to do. And this is a great family move that's out there in general release right now.
HEMMER: Listen, Roger, we want to take a quick look at the clip. We'll come back and talk about it, why it's so special.
EBERT: oh, god. OK, here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES")
LUPE ONTIVEROS, ACTRESS: You know, Ana, you're not bad-looking. If you lost weight...
AMERICA FERRERA, ACTRESS: Just stop it.
ONTIVEROS: ... you could be beautiful.
FERRERA: Stop it. You're overweight, too. So why should I listen to you?
ONTIVEROS: Ana, don't eat the flan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FERRERA: "Don't eat the flan."
Why so special, Roger?
EBERT: Well, America Ferrera is so good in that performance, as you might have gotten just from the clip. She's an 18-year-old high school girl. It's her first professional acting job.
And our hearts go out to this young woman who wants to go to college and whose mother is afraid, really, of losing her. So, that would be a real sleeper. You know, you don't want to necessarily just go to the movie that has the $30 million advertising campaign. It's good to look for these independent films.
HEMMER: Yes, I agree with you completely on that.
Listen, the next film, no one knows a lot about this one, "Standing in the Shadows of Motown." Tell us about it.
EBERT: These are the Funk Brothers. They are the people who played behind all of the great artists who made the Motown hits in the '60s. And they were kind of in the shadows. They were in the shadows of Motown. So, at last, their story gets told. And there's a lot of good music in the movie.
HEMMER: Wow.
Listen, what should we skip? I know you didn't like "Jackass" very much, "Jackass: The Movie."
EBERT: Yes.
Another one that would be good to skip would be "Half Past Dead," which is the Steven Seagal film. And it's amazing to see all of the other actors in the movie trying to act around this dead zone that has become Steven Seagal.
HEMMER: Wow.
Well, listen, take us into December right now. What should we be looking toward?
EBERT: Bill, I just came from a movie. I saw it at the Toronto Film Festival in September. I just saw it again. Half an hour ago, it was over. And it's the only movie that has made me cry twice this year.
That's "Antwone Fisher," directed by Denzel Washington, starring Denzel Washington and a young newcomer named Derek Luke in the story of a young seaman, a Navy seaman, who gets into psychiatric care with Denzel Washington and brings out all of the issues of his young but very troubled life.
And this is one of the great movies of the year and one of the great heartwarming and heartbreaking movies of the year, if you really like to be emotionally impacted by a film.
HEMMER: Listen, we'll take a note of it.
EBERT: "Antwone Fisher."
HEMMER: You have a good Thanksgiving, OK?
EBERT: OK, Bill. You, too.
HEMMER: Roger Ebert, in Chicago, good to see you again.
Speaking of previews, we'll have another quick one in just a moment here -- back in a moment after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Now, tomorrow, right here, Connie is going to take a look back at some of her most interesting interviews, including a fascinating trip to Italy, where she was the guest of superstar Luciano Pavarotti. Again, that's coming up tomorrow.
Coming up next here on CNN tonight: "LARRY KING LIVE." Carol Channing sits down to talk with Larry.
Thank you for watching us tonight. Have a good night and a great tomorrow on Thanksgiving.
I'll see you tomorrow morning on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Good night now.
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Examines Holiday Movies>
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