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American Morning
Day One on the Ground for Inspectors
Aired November 27, 2002 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Baghdad quickly now. Inspectors day one on the ground there. For the first time since four years ago, 1998 when they left, quickly splitting up and dividing themselves into two teams.
Nic Robertson was with one team. He now joins us again back from Baghdad with more -- Nic, what did you see and how did things go on day one?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Day one a few small hiccups, Bill. The team we went with going to the east of Baghdad, getting a little bit lost just a mile or so out of their headquarters, maybe not surprising, they're new out on the roads here. But unlike us, they're not able to stop and ask people directions because these are no notice inspections and they're not allowed to tell anyone where they're going. So that wouldn't help.
They did find their way and within half an hour they were driving into their, driving into this industrial complex. Now, when the media got there, I mean take a look at these pictures, you can really see there was quite a scrum of cameras there trying to get in, a lot of noise and chaos there.
Once they got inside we were able to look at things through the fence there. You can see that chaos there, a lot of pushing and shoving, a lot of people wanting to follow the monitoring team, follow the inspection team inside the complex. That didn't happen. We were able to watch through some gaps in the wall. We could see there about six inspectors going between the different buildings, about a dozen warehouse buildings in that complex, taking some photographs, taking documents between buildings, speaking with a few Iraqi officials.
When they wrapped up, we were able to get in. They spent about three hours there. When we got in, we talked with the director general at the plant. He said that they'd seen everything that they wanted to see. He said that he had no weapons of mass destruction at that site and that as far as he was concerned, the doors were wide open and they could come back any time.
He also said, Bill, that they didn't take anything away with them.
HEMMER: Nic, quickly here, we talked about this high technology that's now being employed to aid the inspectors as they go about this round now. Did you take note of that in any way about that technology being employed today? ROBERTSON: Difficult to see from the distance we were at. Bill, this was a nuclear inspection team. They are some of the guys who have the high tech gamma detect -- gamma radiation detecting cameras. They have these handheld devices for detecting radioactive isotopes. That is, do they have a rich uranium, the type of stuff you put in a bomb.
So they have that kind of gear. But we were too far away to see, Bill.
HEMMER: Got it.
Thanks, Nic.
Nic Robertson again on the ground in Baghdad.
And the inspections, again, expected to get off to a slow start, day one today, starting with searches at sites that already were looked over about four years ago. But with the government of Iraq stating that it has no weapons of mass destruction, is there a chance for success on this front?
From D.C. this morning, back with us, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, the former U.S. Charge d'Affairs in Iraq.
Ambassador, good to have you back with us here.
AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: They were list...
WILSON: How are you today?
HEMMER: I'm doing just fine, thank you very much.
Happy holidays to you.
WILSON: To you, as well.
HEMMER: Nic Robertson, his report, you take away his comments to mean what thus far today?
WILSON: Well, I think so far so good. I mean it's still early. I don't think that anybody expected that in the first few inspections there would be anything dramatic. You've got December 8 coming up with the declaration that needs to be made and then you've got, I think, the more intense inspections as they ferret through some of the discrepancies that may show up between what the Iraqis say and what the U.N. and the U.S. and other intelligence services believe that they actually do have.
HEMMER: Yes, you have said, along with a lot of other people looking in on the outside of this story, that Saddam Hussein will cooperate, but not necessarily comply. Define the difference between those two terms in the way you see it. WILSON: Well, I think what you're seeing here is that at least thus far he's opened up the doors to the sites that the inspectors want him to go into, which is a little bit different from the last days of the last inspection regime. But nonetheless, it's entirely likely that they will attempt to hide the core technologies and the core expertise and some of the weapons of mass destruction that they have had in storage for the past several years.
HEMMER: Take me back to your first answer, though, going slow a little bit is the way you classify it today, almost indicting that you don't want to be provocative from the outset. What would that do, in essence, in terms of that relationship between inspectors and Iraqis, if, indeed, you were to push it too far early on?
WILSON: Well, I think it's less a question of the relationship between the inspectors and the Iraqis and more a question of getting the methodology right and avoiding any accidents that could trigger reactions that nobody wants. I mean when you go to war, you want to make sure that you go to war for the right reasons. Accidental wars are generally not great wars to fight and people have a tendency to regret them.
So you want to avoid misunderstandings early on. There'll be plenty of time to, for substantive disagreements down the road, which will, I'm sure, will test the zero tolerance policy.
I look at this really as a pre-season game, these first couple of inspections.
HEMMER: Hans Blix, who's leading up this team -- in fact, he's in New York today. He's going to be live on CNN later this afternoon with Christiane Amanpour. He is saying in essence that the Iraqi side -- we can put up a full screen quote to let our viewers know -- the Iraqi side remarked that entry into a presidential site and/or a ministry was not exactly the same thing as entering into a factory.
As you measure that statement, are there pretty apparent items at some point where the friction is just going to come to a head?
WILSON: Well, I don't recall anything in Resolution 1441 that distinguishes presidential palaces from other sites. So I don't know why the Iraqis would be making this interpretation. I think it is safe to assume that down the road there will be some friction as the inspectors press for the unfettered access that the U.N. Security Council resolution provides for.
HEMMER: Yes, but if you go back to Hans Blix's words, I mean that would seem to indicate that there is friction at some point, because if the U.N. is saying one thing about everything across the country and the Iraqis are responding and saying no, no, no, this fits a different definition, in essence you have what could be a confrontation on certain fronts, correct?
WILSON: Oh, I think that's absolutely right. I think I just tried to say that, maybe not very articulately. But absolutely. I think we should expect friction when you get to some of the more sensitive sites and that's why I think it's really important for the president and for the United Nations Security Council to maintain the credible threat of force. The president has articulated a zero tolerance policy, which one would expect to be exercised when Saddam, in fact, does try and block access to one of the sites that the inspectors have a legitimate need to see.
HEMMER: Yes, we were talking with Richard Butler in Sydney, Australia last hour. There are upwards of 900 sites that this team of inspectors, that will total about a hundred people eventually in the first part of December, in a country that is, in essence, the size of Texas. How realistic is this operation right now when you're trying to fully account for what Iraq may or may not have?
WILSON: Well, I think it's going to be time consuming. But my sense is that it's absolutely realistic. The purpose of the exercise is to disarm Saddam, peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary. It's important to go through the peaceful if possible part initially.
Now, 900 sites is a daunting task, but it's certainly not impossible. It may take some time. Time may not be our enemy in this regard. At the end of the day, Saddam Hussein is 65 years old. You look at pictures of the RCC, the regional or the Revolutionary Command Council, and they're all getting pretty old. The domestic support for Saddam has gotten appreciably less over the years.
So time actually may work to our advantage as we go through this process.
HEMMER: Interesting approach, yes.
WILSON: The other thing I guess I would say on this, Bill, is that, is that disarmament is a valid objective and we should go ahead and continue to pursue it as long as necessary. We need not be impatient on this.
HEMMER: Ambassador Joseph Wilson, good to talk to you again, live in D.C. We shall all see eventually.
WILSON: Have a happy Thanksgiving.
HEMMER: You the same.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
We'll talk again.
More coverage of the important first day, day one on the ground, 3:00 Eastern today, noon on the West Coast. Christiane Amanpour is going to sit down with Hans Blix, who heads up that team of inspectors.
Right, now we'll have it for you live only here on CNN later today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 27, 2002 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Baghdad quickly now. Inspectors day one on the ground there. For the first time since four years ago, 1998 when they left, quickly splitting up and dividing themselves into two teams.
Nic Robertson was with one team. He now joins us again back from Baghdad with more -- Nic, what did you see and how did things go on day one?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Day one a few small hiccups, Bill. The team we went with going to the east of Baghdad, getting a little bit lost just a mile or so out of their headquarters, maybe not surprising, they're new out on the roads here. But unlike us, they're not able to stop and ask people directions because these are no notice inspections and they're not allowed to tell anyone where they're going. So that wouldn't help.
They did find their way and within half an hour they were driving into their, driving into this industrial complex. Now, when the media got there, I mean take a look at these pictures, you can really see there was quite a scrum of cameras there trying to get in, a lot of noise and chaos there.
Once they got inside we were able to look at things through the fence there. You can see that chaos there, a lot of pushing and shoving, a lot of people wanting to follow the monitoring team, follow the inspection team inside the complex. That didn't happen. We were able to watch through some gaps in the wall. We could see there about six inspectors going between the different buildings, about a dozen warehouse buildings in that complex, taking some photographs, taking documents between buildings, speaking with a few Iraqi officials.
When they wrapped up, we were able to get in. They spent about three hours there. When we got in, we talked with the director general at the plant. He said that they'd seen everything that they wanted to see. He said that he had no weapons of mass destruction at that site and that as far as he was concerned, the doors were wide open and they could come back any time.
He also said, Bill, that they didn't take anything away with them.
HEMMER: Nic, quickly here, we talked about this high technology that's now being employed to aid the inspectors as they go about this round now. Did you take note of that in any way about that technology being employed today? ROBERTSON: Difficult to see from the distance we were at. Bill, this was a nuclear inspection team. They are some of the guys who have the high tech gamma detect -- gamma radiation detecting cameras. They have these handheld devices for detecting radioactive isotopes. That is, do they have a rich uranium, the type of stuff you put in a bomb.
So they have that kind of gear. But we were too far away to see, Bill.
HEMMER: Got it.
Thanks, Nic.
Nic Robertson again on the ground in Baghdad.
And the inspections, again, expected to get off to a slow start, day one today, starting with searches at sites that already were looked over about four years ago. But with the government of Iraq stating that it has no weapons of mass destruction, is there a chance for success on this front?
From D.C. this morning, back with us, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, the former U.S. Charge d'Affairs in Iraq.
Ambassador, good to have you back with us here.
AMB. JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. CHARGE D'AFFAIRS: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: They were list...
WILSON: How are you today?
HEMMER: I'm doing just fine, thank you very much.
Happy holidays to you.
WILSON: To you, as well.
HEMMER: Nic Robertson, his report, you take away his comments to mean what thus far today?
WILSON: Well, I think so far so good. I mean it's still early. I don't think that anybody expected that in the first few inspections there would be anything dramatic. You've got December 8 coming up with the declaration that needs to be made and then you've got, I think, the more intense inspections as they ferret through some of the discrepancies that may show up between what the Iraqis say and what the U.N. and the U.S. and other intelligence services believe that they actually do have.
HEMMER: Yes, you have said, along with a lot of other people looking in on the outside of this story, that Saddam Hussein will cooperate, but not necessarily comply. Define the difference between those two terms in the way you see it. WILSON: Well, I think what you're seeing here is that at least thus far he's opened up the doors to the sites that the inspectors want him to go into, which is a little bit different from the last days of the last inspection regime. But nonetheless, it's entirely likely that they will attempt to hide the core technologies and the core expertise and some of the weapons of mass destruction that they have had in storage for the past several years.
HEMMER: Take me back to your first answer, though, going slow a little bit is the way you classify it today, almost indicting that you don't want to be provocative from the outset. What would that do, in essence, in terms of that relationship between inspectors and Iraqis, if, indeed, you were to push it too far early on?
WILSON: Well, I think it's less a question of the relationship between the inspectors and the Iraqis and more a question of getting the methodology right and avoiding any accidents that could trigger reactions that nobody wants. I mean when you go to war, you want to make sure that you go to war for the right reasons. Accidental wars are generally not great wars to fight and people have a tendency to regret them.
So you want to avoid misunderstandings early on. There'll be plenty of time to, for substantive disagreements down the road, which will, I'm sure, will test the zero tolerance policy.
I look at this really as a pre-season game, these first couple of inspections.
HEMMER: Hans Blix, who's leading up this team -- in fact, he's in New York today. He's going to be live on CNN later this afternoon with Christiane Amanpour. He is saying in essence that the Iraqi side -- we can put up a full screen quote to let our viewers know -- the Iraqi side remarked that entry into a presidential site and/or a ministry was not exactly the same thing as entering into a factory.
As you measure that statement, are there pretty apparent items at some point where the friction is just going to come to a head?
WILSON: Well, I don't recall anything in Resolution 1441 that distinguishes presidential palaces from other sites. So I don't know why the Iraqis would be making this interpretation. I think it is safe to assume that down the road there will be some friction as the inspectors press for the unfettered access that the U.N. Security Council resolution provides for.
HEMMER: Yes, but if you go back to Hans Blix's words, I mean that would seem to indicate that there is friction at some point, because if the U.N. is saying one thing about everything across the country and the Iraqis are responding and saying no, no, no, this fits a different definition, in essence you have what could be a confrontation on certain fronts, correct?
WILSON: Oh, I think that's absolutely right. I think I just tried to say that, maybe not very articulately. But absolutely. I think we should expect friction when you get to some of the more sensitive sites and that's why I think it's really important for the president and for the United Nations Security Council to maintain the credible threat of force. The president has articulated a zero tolerance policy, which one would expect to be exercised when Saddam, in fact, does try and block access to one of the sites that the inspectors have a legitimate need to see.
HEMMER: Yes, we were talking with Richard Butler in Sydney, Australia last hour. There are upwards of 900 sites that this team of inspectors, that will total about a hundred people eventually in the first part of December, in a country that is, in essence, the size of Texas. How realistic is this operation right now when you're trying to fully account for what Iraq may or may not have?
WILSON: Well, I think it's going to be time consuming. But my sense is that it's absolutely realistic. The purpose of the exercise is to disarm Saddam, peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary. It's important to go through the peaceful if possible part initially.
Now, 900 sites is a daunting task, but it's certainly not impossible. It may take some time. Time may not be our enemy in this regard. At the end of the day, Saddam Hussein is 65 years old. You look at pictures of the RCC, the regional or the Revolutionary Command Council, and they're all getting pretty old. The domestic support for Saddam has gotten appreciably less over the years.
So time actually may work to our advantage as we go through this process.
HEMMER: Interesting approach, yes.
WILSON: The other thing I guess I would say on this, Bill, is that, is that disarmament is a valid objective and we should go ahead and continue to pursue it as long as necessary. We need not be impatient on this.
HEMMER: Ambassador Joseph Wilson, good to talk to you again, live in D.C. We shall all see eventually.
WILSON: Have a happy Thanksgiving.
HEMMER: You the same.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
We'll talk again.
More coverage of the important first day, day one on the ground, 3:00 Eastern today, noon on the West Coast. Christiane Amanpour is going to sit down with Hans Blix, who heads up that team of inspectors.
Right, now we'll have it for you live only here on CNN later today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
