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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
Talkback Live's Favorite Moments
Aired November 28, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ARTHEL NEVILLE, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this very special holiday edition of TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
Hope you're enjoying your Thanksgiving with family and friends, and we're really glad you invited us over.
And, you know, like the turkey and stuffing that's on your table, we want to bring you some of our old favorites. We're going to start with Bernard Kerik. He is the former New York City police chief, and he was here on our set here in Atlanta just days before the anniversary of September 11.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: But first, I have someone I want you to meet. He's a man whose extraordinary life as a crime fighter became an indelible part of the September 11 tragedy in New York. It's the story of a high school dropout and son of a prostitute who emerged a tower of strength when the Twin Towers collapsed. I'm talking about Bernard Kerik, former New York City police commissioner. His autobiography, by the way, is titled "The Lost Son: A Life in Pursuit of Justice. "
And I would like to welcome you to the show.
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Thank you.
NEVILLE: So good to see you.
KERIK: Thank you.
NEVILLE: I want to start, though, about -- I want to get to your thoughts on September 11. And I want to know how you plan to reflect on that day and honor the victims and heroes.
KERIK: I'll be attending a number of different ceremonies in the city, outside the city, meeting possibly some of the families.
That morning, I will be at ground zero to be involved in the actual memorial ceremony and just be able to sort of reflect on my own about that day and about the men and women that I lost and that was lost in the attack.
NEVILLE: What are some of the pictures and memories that will never leave your mind? KERIK: I think, first and foremost, was when I arrived at the towers. I was there probably within about eight or nine minutes after the first plane hit. And I was there before the second plane hit.
The visuals and the images of the people jumping from the buildings -- you know, I had gone there to meet the mayor and to get him into the emergency command center. But that was virtually impossible because the command center was across the street from tower one. And then I think, when Flight 175 hit tower two, the tower erupted and exploded over top of me and my staff.
And those images, walking into the auditorium of police headquarters and having to meet with the families of the 23 cops that were missing, those are the things that I remember most.
NEVILLE: And I know that you are a strong person, but I have to ask you, when you saw the towers collapsing on top of the station, coming down where you were, did you ever think, "Wow, am I going to make it out of here?"
KERIK: Well, the mayor and I were -- we were inside 75 Barkley Street when Tower Two collapsed. We didn't know what it was. We felt the vibration. It felt like a freight train was coming through the building. And then somebody told us to get down.
The windows started to shatter. And there was this burst of energy and dust and debris and smoke. And, at that point, I didn't know the towers had collapsed. I thought it was a third incoming aircraft. And then we eventually escaped from the building and learned, once we got outside, that the buildings had come down.
NEVILLE: At that moment, what was your world like?
KERIK: You know, your mind is sort of in a sense of denial.
That is, I have lived in New York since 1986 and I lived in New Jersey before that. I have seen those towers as long as I can remember. And to think that they could possibly come down, I think my mind was in sort of a sense of denial.
NEVILLE: If you could take us back a minute too because you told us that you were there what eight or nine minutes after the first plane hit. When you got word, though, where were you and what were you thinking? This is something that no one could comprehend.
KERIK: When the first plane hit at 8:45, I was in my office. I had just finished exercising. I was going to take a shower. My staff came in and began to bang on the door and said that a plane had hit tower one.
And, quite honestly, I thought it was a twin-engine plane. I thought it was one of the planes that fly up and down the Hudson. I told my guys to calm down. And they said: "No, you better look at it. You better see this."
And I went into my conference room. And I guess police headquarters is about nine blocks away from the towers. And then I saw what you saw, what the entire world saw.
And I really questioned at that point whether it was a plane. I turned around to my staff and I said, "Who said it was a plane?"
They said, "The helicopter pilots at aviation."
NEVILLE: But, again, here you are, the leader, the fearless leader, but you are a person, too. You had to pull it together and be the leader. But give me some of those inner thoughts that you had.
KERIK: I think the most pressing or the most confusion came within the first three to five seconds after the second plane hit, when I looked up and saw the explosion of tower two. And then we had to run from that, because it was coming down on top of us.
For a quick second, I didn't know what was going on. And then I heard that it was another aircraft. And, at that point, while the entire world watched, I really didn't have time to take a moment and get my grip and all that stuff. And people ask: "Were you afraid. Was the mayor afraid?"
We had to worry about the possibility of secondary attacks on the ground. We had to worry about incoming aircraft. We didn't know how many more aircraft there were. We had to worry about the evacuation, the response in the city, the mass transit system. There was just too much to do to sit back and think about fear and what we were doing.
NEVILLE: I want to let some -- the beauty of this show is that the regular people get to talk to people like you.
And right now, we have a call coming in from Kentucky.
And, Tom, you are live. Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, ma'am.
I would just like to say that it says a lot about the backbone of this country, where someone had to go do that. And I know it had to be devastating. And I just -- I can't say enough. And I respect the man so much.
KERIK: Thank you. Thank you.
NEVILLE: And thanks for calling in.
Commissioner, there, of course, has been criticism to the response, the lack of communication that day. What do you say to that?
KERIK: Well, I think people have to take a step back and look at it.
It's -- well, number one, it's always easier to analyze and judge something after the fact.
Number two, this was a police department. This wasn't a military. This wasn't an army. This wasn't a navy. This was a police department, a paramilitary organization, responding to a wartime event. There were 16 to 18 acres of destruction and devastation. There were 3,000 people killed at this event.
Was there communications issues? Absolutely. The cell phones went out. There were some radio problems. But this was an event that was sort of the unimaginable.
If you look at the damage and the devastation and the death, this was bigger than the attack on Pearl Harbor. And I think people have to take that into perspective when they think about that day.
NEVILLE: There was actually chaos, in every sense of the word.
KERIK: It was chaotic in its own sense. But you have to -- people also have to realize, for many years, since 1994, when the mayor took over, we had practiced and prepared and planned for the possibility of an attack like this.
And had this attack -- as ironic as this sounds -- had it happened in any other city in this country, I think the damages and the casualties would have been far more.
NEVILLE: I want to take a question from an audience member there.
Ralph, I think, is your name.
RALPH: Hi.
When did it first dawn on you or the mayor or anyone on your staff that this was a terrorist attack or could be a terrorist attack and not just a plane accident?
KERIK: Two or three seconds after the second tower was hit.
The mayor arrived at the scene with me within three minutes after the second plane hit tower two. But when the second plane hit Tower Two, it flew in from the south, blew out the north end of the building over top of us. I didn't know it was a plane until the aviation pilots started yelling that it was a commercial airliner. And it was at that second that I knew it was an attack.
NEVILLE: This gentleman here from New York, Ira, in our audience, wearing a Yankees shirt, a true New Yorker, wants to get in on this conversation.
IRA: Do you believe the terrorists will attack subway systems in New York?
KERIK: I can't say whether they will attack the subway systems, but they will be back.
I don't know if it's going to be New York. We can't say where it's going to be. I think it's extremely important that we commit to the war on terrorism that the president has committed. I think it's extremely important that we create the intelligence databases and the clearinghouse for intelligence that the president wants to do to make sure that the next time this happens, where they attempt to do this, we know what happens before -- we know it's going to happen beforehand. And that's going to be the key of fighting terrorism.
Where it's going to happen, when and how, we don't know yet. But I can promise you, there will be another attack on this country.
NEVILLE: And do you feel comfortable knowing that we can be or will be as prepared as we possibly can be?
KERIK: Right.
I think we are in much better shape today than we were a year ago. I think that will continue. I think we have to stay committed to the war on terrorism, both on the homeland front and abroad. I think the war in Afghanistan and on other countries that support terrorism has got to continue.
I think, on the homeland, we have to make sure that we create this intelligence network. We have to make sure that the federal agencies are talking to our local police officers. We have 660,000 cops and police officers that patrol our streets. They have got to know what the feds are looking for. And they have got to communicate. If they don't, we are going to miss the next attack.
NEVILLE: Well, of course, Bernard Kerik and Rudy Giuliani, you know that team. Well, guess what? They are up to something again. We are going to find out exactly what these two men have planned for us next.
Don't go anywhere. TALKBACK LIVE continues after this break.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody.
We are talking with former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. He is in town, by the way, here in Atlanta for the Battle of Atlanta, a Joe Corley-sponsored karate competition. We'll talk about that in a minute.
But what I want to do is clarify what you are doing now. You are working -- a firm called Giuliani Partners.
KERIK: We're still working with the mayor, Giuliani Partners, which is a business management consulting firm that was created by the mayor once he left office.
And, primarily, it's -- there are other members of the firm: his former chief of staff, the former fire commissioner, the commissioner of emergency management for the city of New York. You basically took the executive staff of New York City and transposed them into another building. And now we consult on different issues around the country, around the world. And my expertise in the field is security, naturally.
NEVILLE: And regarding that, we have some questions from the audience. I want to start with Steve.
What's your question, Steve?
STEVE: Yes, sir.
I just wanted to get your opinion on Bush's plan for homeland security and consolidation of all the agencies that have been identified in that plan.
KERIK: I think I have to give the president an enormous amount of credit. I think he's done more in the last 10 months to combat terrorism than we had done in the prior administration.
I think the merging of these agencies is absolutely necessary. We've got to create a mechanism where the agencies talk to each other and report to one command. We have got to make sure that those agencies, then, have a communication effort with the CIA and the FBI. If we do that, we'll be able to create the intelligence databases, to put them together into a clearinghouse, the dissemination of that information.
And that's what is going to prevent things like this from happening in the future. If we don't do that, they will be back and we'll miss it before they get here.
NEVILLE: What do you make of stories that we see when various airports across the country are shut down, evacuated for hours, because of suspicious packages?
KERIK: Well, I think it's the new world we live in. And I think we have to get accustomed to it. I think we have to understand it and we have to realize it's going to happen.
We have to police our streets differently. We have to be aware of our surroundings. You know, these people are going to come back. And when they do, they may not attack the country like the World Trade Center, like the Pentagon.
But if you took five areas in this country, and at 5:00 this afternoon, you sent in five suicide bombers to five airline counters or to five tourist sites and you killed 50 people, much less than what was killed on September 11, but you would devastate this country. You would cripple the economy, because you would frighten the entire country.
That's what terrorism is. It's sheer fear. And that's what they are attempting to do, because they despise this nation.
NEVILLE: Let me get another question in from another audience member -- Elaine.
ELAINE: Hi.
I wanted to know, do you think they are going to rebuild the tower back? And if they do, would it be as high as it was?
KERIK: Well, I think they are looking to rebuild the towers and create another economic development center like the towers.
But I have to say, from a personal perspective -- and maybe it's -- I have a different insight -- I am adamantly opposed to building on the footprints where the towers were. At 2:30 in the morning on the 12th, I went back to the site that night. And I met the mayor there. And I can recall looking out over the site and seeing the metal and the debris and the dust.
And I realized that there was nothing there. There was just metal and dust and dirt. Two buildings, 110 stories, had been disintegrated. They vaporized. They just disappeared. And the people that were in those buildings did the same. We never recovered all of the people in those buildings. They are still there. They're in the dust. They're in the ground. They're in the air.
And I, for one, I believe that is now a cemetery. I believe it's hallowed ground. And I don't think we would build on the battlefield of Gettysburg. And I don't think we should build there either.
NEVILLE: Wow, that's definitely a very -- yes.
(APPLAUSE)
NEVILLE: Very sensitive perspective. And I do appreciate that perspective.
What I'm going to do now, actually, just for the sake of time, I am going to take a turn here and talk about a totally different subject, which is going to be Tae Kwon Do. You have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do.
KERIK: Right.
NEVILLE: Correct?
And, yes, there is the Atlanta tournament here happening this weekend.
KERIK: Right.
Joe Corley's Battle of Atlanta is probably the largest martial art tournament in the world. And most of the people you see in this room in the front rows here are some of the masters over the last 20 or 30, 35 years. I don't want to give anybody's age away. But they are the pioneers, so to speak, that brought martial arts into this country.
NEVILLE: But how important is Tae Kwon Do in your life? KERIK: I grew up in Paterson, New Jersey. I was born in Newark. And I know a lot of people may have seen the movie "Lean On Me," and Joe Clark, East Side High. Well, I went to East Side before Joe Clark ever cleaned it up.
And it was a pretty bad neighborhood. And I needed some help. And my help really came from the martial arts. I started when I was about 13. I got my black belt when I was 16. And that was sort of the foot in the behind that got me started to put me where I am today.
NEVILLE: Well, listen, you are at a great place today. And I really appreciate your stopping by. . .
KERIK: Thank you.
NEVILLE: ... here at TALKBACK LIVE to share your stories with us. Thank you very much.
KERIK: Thank you. Thank you very much.
NEVILLE: OK.
(APPLAUSE)
NEVILLE: Bernard Kerik.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: Up next on this special edition of TALKBACK LIVE, we are going to mix it up with the unpredictable Charles Barkley.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back to this special holiday edition of TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
Many of you know Charles Barkley from his playing days in the NBA, and now he has a new show where he's talking basketball on TNT. And Charles, in case he didn't have enough to do, he has now joined the TALKBACK LIVE family. That's right, he's a weekly contributor here.
And Sir Charles recently sat down with me. We talked about his new book and a few other things that were on Charles's mind.
Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: Right now I would like to welcome a new addition to CNN and TALKBACK LIVE. Say hello to Charles Barkley. He will be a contributor to CNN, and this show, in particular.
Charles has a new book. It's called, "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt it." It has major attitude, of course.
And, Charles, welcome. Nice to see you again.
CHARLES BARKLEY, TALKBACK LIVE CONTRIBUTOR: What's up, girl? How you doing?
NEVILLE: I am great. We're going to get right to it. I know you just heard us talking about the background checks for the little league volunteers, right? I just wanted to know what do you think about that idea?
BARKLEY: Well I think that's just a no-brainer. I think anybody who is working with kids you've got to check out everything about them. And with all the technology we have available today, I mean we should be able to find out everything about anybody.
NEVILLE: And you also know what's on everybody's minds, particularly the folks living in the Maryland area. These sniper shootings, wondering if you had any thoughts you want to share with us on that story.
BARKLEY: Well, I think the number one thing, it just makes you sad. Because to know that there's a person capable of doing that, as a human being, you just feel like, I can't believe somebody that's living in my country and my world is that evil. So I just feel great sadness.
NEVILLE: Hey, listen, OK, so the name of your book, "I May Be Wrong, But I Doubt It," it's a little cocky title, by the way, Charles.
BARKLEY: Well, I'm a little cocky.
NEVILLE: Yes? I think so. A little bit?
OK. So what do you talk about in this book? You talk about everything. Give us an idea what you talk about, and who do you think will read this book?
BARKLEY: Well I think the book is really good. And I'm saying that -- I had a great guy writing it for me: Mike Wilburn (ph). We just talk about life. I talk about not graduating from high school and how bitter I was for a long time because they did not let me graduate.
I was bitter at my father. And I just talked about I wasted all that time and energy being mad at my high school and being mad at my father. And I didn't enjoy the first few years of my career because I was...
NEVILLE: Charles, why do you say they didn't let you graduate from high school?
BARKLEY: Because I flunked Spanish.
NEVILLE: Porque? BARKLEY: I don't know why the hell I was taking -- I don't know why the hell I was taking Spanish in the first place.
NEVILLE: Hey, you know it's very good to have a foreign language as something that -- I actually wish that here in America that, unlike over in Europe, that it became mandatory a second language when you're eight years old. That's how you really learn a second language.
BARKLEY: Well, I think it's good to learn a second language. But I just was mad because I had accomplished a lot of great things in high school. But not to graduate, I was so bitter and angry.
And I actually went and watched the whole ceremony from next door. And it was -- and I was just mad. I just wanted to be successful to prove to all those people and stick it to them.
NEVILLE: Right. But at the same time, Charles those were the rules. The rule was you had to take Spanish, you had to pass it in order to graduate.
BARKLEY: Well I didn't have to take it. I was just stupid enough to take it.
But the thing I wanted to talk about in the book was I spent all of that time being angry at my father and being angry at my high school, and it was unnecessary, because that's the point I want to make: it was my fault.
NEVILLE: Yes, anger is not a good thing. It's bad for the soul, right? We're going to move on now.
Harry Belafonte let everyone know what he thinks of Secretary of State Colin Powell during an interview on KFNB (ph) radio in San Diego. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)
HARRY BELAFONTE, SINGER: There's an old saying in the days of slavery: There are those slaves who lived on the plantation and there were those slaves who lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master. Colin Powell is permitted to come into the house of the master.
(END AUDIO TAPE)
NEVILLE: OK. That is the quote from Mr. Belafonte. And wanted to know, Charles, if you had any response to that at all.
BARKLEY: Well, it's unfortunate, because I have -- I love Colin Powell. He's one of my heroes. He's somebody I really admire. I honestly have great respect for Mr. Belafonte also.
I think one of the things I talk about in the book is black people, we should not -- just because we disagree with each other, we shouldn't make one right or one wrong. It's all right to be different, to have our own opinions. Just because Mr. Powell is a Republican, that does not make him bad. We, as black people -- one of the things I say is we are never going to be successful because of stuff like this. We treat each other so bad.
It's not always -- I guess he's referring to the white man. Everything bad that happens to black people is not the white man. We treat each other like crap.
Until we address our own problems, which is black on black crime, teenaged pregnancies and single parent homes, we're never going to be successful. And it's not fair for whites and people or black people to get mad at each other because we disagree.
Mr. Powell happens to be a Republican. I could care less who is a Republican and who is a Democrat. And until we as black people especially -- one of the things I talk about, I don't feel like I have to speak for poor black people, poor white people and Hispanics, because those are three groups I feel like get treated like crap in this country.
But what happens is they make us pick and choose, like now this is going to be a big deal, them criticizing each other. And it doesn't solve anything. But I admire Colin Powell.
And just because -- you know, one thing in the black community when black people started trying to be successful, a lot of black people resent them. They treat them bad. And that's wrong.
NEVILLE: OK. Listen, Charles, I have to take a break right now. And by the way, everyone else, you will get a chance to spar with Charles. After this, I have some people in the audience with questions or comments for you, Charles.
TALKBACK LIVE continues in a moment. Don't go anywhere.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville. We're talking with TALKBACK LIVE's new contributor, Charles Barkley. Hey, Charles, I have several audience members who want to ask you a couple of questions, starting here with James (ph).
JAMES: Yes, Charles. The movie "Barbershop" is out and a number of black leaders have been saying that Rosa Parks and, of course, Martin Luther King, have been stepped on. I would like to know have you seen the movie? And I would like to know when do we separate reality from comedy?
BARKLEY: That is an unbelievable point. I did go see the movie. I saw it the first day it was out because a couple of my friends are in the movie.
I wish they hadn't said anything about Rosa Parks because she is somebody I really admire. But I think you have to really -- your point is well taken. See, that's what we all talk about, political correctness. I think we have to be smart enough to decipher between what's comedy and what's serious.
And so I had no problem with the movie. I wish they hadn't said the thing about Dr. King or Rosa Parks. But I'm smart enough to know that it's just comedy.
NEVILLE: OK. And we have Susan (ph) from Alabama.
SUSAN: Yes, this is really exciting that I get to speak with you. I wish it could be in person. I would like to know what ties you still have with your home town, especially since I just learned that you were really upset about not getting your high school diploma at that time?
BARKLEY: Well I got over that. It took me a long time to get over that. But as far as my ties to my home town, this is one of the things that I talked about...
NEVILLE: Lees (ph), Alabama.
BARKLEY: That's it, baby. One of the things I talked about, I gave my high school $1 million -- I'm giving them $1 million. I'm giving my college $1 million. And I'm giving another inner-city school in Birmingham, Cornerstone (ph) schools, I'm giving them $1 million over the next few years.
As far as my hometown, right now I'm in the process of buying 10 houses and renovating them. Because I think that if kids live in a good neighborhood and don't have the rundown, abandoned and beaten down houses, I think it will improve their pride and self esteem.
So hopefully in the next two months we'll have all ten houses remodeled -- excuse me -- paid for and remodeled by next summer or by next Christmas hopefully. And just improve my neighborhood, because I think that that's a really big deal to me, to improve my own neighborhood first.
NEVILLE: OK. Hey, Charles, we have an e-mail coming across now I want to share with everybody from Larry (ph) in Oregon. He says, "Charles Barkley as a commentator on current news issues? You have to be kidding. What is CNN thinking?"
BARKLEY: Well, see, Larry is interesting because Larry is one of them guys who thinks his opinion is more important than mine. Everybody in this world has an opinion. And when somebody like myself, who has got no (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on the table, people get offended. But, Larry (ph), we played your stupid opinion and if my opinion is stupid, it's going to get played too.
NEVILLE: All right. Listen, I have Kevin (ph) here from Alabama.
KEVIN: Yes, like one year ago when Michael Jordan came back to the NBA, like all of my friends and people I know, they were like, I can't believe it, he's playing for another team because of his age. And I was wondering if you had any chance of playing professional basketball again.
BARKLEY: No. You know last year I wish Michael hadn't come back, because I said I thought he was going to get hurt. And that was unfortunate, because I love Michael like a brother. He's been my friend through this entire, obviously professional life, and he's been there for me in a lot of crucial situations.
But I didn't want him to come back because, number one, I knew he couldn't be as good as he was and I knew he was going to get hurt. And I'm really worried about him this year, because I think, as well as I know Michael, it's going to be tough on him coming off the bench from a -- because he is the most competitive person I've ever met in my life. And he's not going to be happy coming off the bench.
I know they can say all the good things they want to and they can make it like everything's going to be fine. But Michael is not going to be happy coming off the bench. I know him better than that.
NEVILLE: OK. Hey, listen, Charles, we have to take a break but we're not finished with Mr. Barkley just yet. After the break, we will continue, so get the questions ready and we'll continue in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. I'm Arthel Neville.
We're talking with TALKBACK LIVE's new commentator, Charles Barkley.
OK, Charles, Johnnie Cochran is going to sue the NFL because there are not enough black coaches. And he spoke with CNN's Connie Chung. And I want to play a little bit of that. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: I know one of the issues that you're very passionate about and have stepped forward regarding is the lack of African-American NFL coaches.
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, ATTORNEY: Yes. I am. And I'm a sports fan. And this is not anything where you -- you know, I'm trying to get a lot of money or get any publicity out of this, especially after Dennis Green (ph) was fired by the Minnesota Vikings. Here was a guy who had a remarkable career. He had one games. He had one bad season and he was out.
We commissioned a study by economist who came back with a report that showed the black coaches did generally better than the white coaches, they got the playoffs -- in terms of comparing their records.
They had more winning records, more times in the playoffs and that sort of thing. But they were still the last hired and the first fired. Four hundred NFL coaches in history, only six are black. Seventy percent of the players are black.
So these guys will have no place to go to be coaches, and so I'm saying -- but these owners have a lot of money and do what they want to do. So we've asked to meet with the commissioner. And I think he's been very progressive about this. They need to improve this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEVILLE: OK. Charles, would you like to expound on what Mr. Cochran just said?
BARKLEY: Well, I totally agree, we need more black coaches in the NFL. Obviously, we have a great deal in the NBA. We have a lot of guys in great positions. So they need more NFL coaches.
But the bottom line is, man, a lot of those guys are rednecks and they don't want brothers coaching. And I like Johnnie Cochran. I know if I ever kill anybody, I can call him and he'll get me off. But, you know he's got a point.
They need more black coaches in the NFL. And the main thing, we need some black owners in sports, period. That's one of the things I talk about in the book. It's a disgrace that there are no black owners in sports.
I mean there should be, because that's where the money is made. People talk about how much money the players make, but if you want to make a ton of money, it's best to own the team.
NEVILLE: OK. Another question regarding sports. The Augusta National Golf Course, you know women's groups, are trying to -- they're fighting to get women admitted as members. Do you think women deserve to be members there?
BARKLEY: No, because it's a private club. It's not a public place. And that goes back to what I just said about -- those guys are rednecks. They don't want brothers there; they don't want women there, and they probably don't want Jewish people. Most of the golf courses I play have no black members, a lot of them don't have Jewish members and some of them don't have women.
They don't want them. I mean that is the ultimate probably good old boy network.
NEVILLE: You know Augusta does have one black member.
BARKLEY: That's another -- that's a funny thing. I have to laugh when people say that. They've got maybe -- I think they might have two black members. And even if they admit one woman that still doesn't make them discriminatory.
That's the whole thing that makes me laugh about this was she wants them to have a woman. First of all, if they do get a woman there, that doesn't do anything. And first of all, it would be a famous woman.
NEVILLE: Charles, I have to take a break. We will continue with Sir Charles after the break.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEVILLE: Hey, everybody. I have 30 seconds for a question and an answer combined. Go ahead, Bud (ph).
BUD: Charles, great player, great career. How much does it hurt that you never won a championship?
BARKLEY: It bothers me that I didn't win a championship, but it will bother me a lot more if all I'm known for is being a great basketball player and having a lot of money. I'm at a great time in my life and I'm taking it to the next level.
NEVILLE: All right, Charles. We're out of time for today, but I know you're going to come back. Glad to have you on board. And we're going to see you back here in Atlanta next time. I want you here, Charles.
BARKLEY: I look forward to it.
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NEVILLE: And you can talk to Charles Barkley every Wednesday here on TALKBACK LIVE.
Up next, smallpox. Author Richard Preston paints a very terrifying picture of bioterrorism and how we are all vulnerable to this deadly disease. You don't want to miss that. We're back in a minute.
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NEVILLE: And welcome back, everyone, to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. This is our special holiday edition.
With the threat of war with Iraq, there has been a lot of fear lately about the threat of bioterrorism. In particular, a smallpox attack. Well recently, I spoke with author Richard Preston, who has a very scary book out now called "The Demon in the Freezer."
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NEVILLE: It wasn't that long ago that most of us thought smallpox had been eradicated from the face of the Earth. Vaccinations against the deforming and often deadly disease ended in the early '70s.
Well now we know the smallpox virus is alive and well, but few remember its devastating effects. According to our next guest, smallpox could become bioterrorism's favorite weapon. Author Richard Preston's latest best-seller is "The Demon in the Freezer," and it is one scary book. Welcome, Richard Preston.
RICHARD PRESTON, AUTHOR: Hi, Arthel.
NEVILLE: Hello.
OK, your bio says that whatever you write about eerily becomes the news. Most recently you wrote about weapons grade anthrax. If, in fact, you have a knack for fatal foreshadowing or forecasting, where do you think this ability comes from?
PRESTON: Well it may well be I love to talk with sources inside the government who tells me -- they tell me what's really going on, and my feeling for quite some time now is that biological weapons, especially smallpox, are a very big issue on the world stage right now.
You know, the United States is very likely to go to war with Iraq. And of the weapons that Saddam Hussein has, probably the most scary and most powerful one may very well be smallpox, the virus. So would Iraq be crazy enough to release smallpox in a terror attack on the U.S., in the context of a war? I don't think anybody can plum the mind of somebody like Saddam, but it's certainly something that this country has to be ready for.
NEVILLE: And having said that, do you think everyone should be vaccinated against smallpox?
PRESTON: Well, this is a great question. The vaccine carries a relatively high risk of side effects. And the experts are telling me that maybe 20 to 25 percent of the American population ought not to have the vaccine, that it doesn't come up to modern safety standards.
My own feeling about this is that we probably ought to start liminating -- you know, limited vaccinations of some people, emergency workers. And, as I've said, I would probably give it to my own family.
NEVILLE: You would. Now, let's go back to that 25 -- or 20 percent of the population that cannot accept this vaccine. Do you know why?
PRESTON: Well, it's got a very bad rate of reactions. You know, most people over the age of 30 have a little scar in their upper arm about the size of a nickel. That's the smallpox vaccination scar that you got in childhood. However, the vaccine wears off starting about five years later. So today, virtually nobody is fully protected against smallpox.
It could travel very fast our society. The concern, let me try to explain this. I'm going to be pretty graphic here, but this is something that people need to know about. Smallpox, some people think it's maybe like a bad version of chicken pox. Not. There are two major types of the disease that are fatal.
One is the classical smallpox in which the skin blisters up all over the body, particularly on the face. If these blisters or pustules (ph) join together in sheaths, the virus is essentially strip the skin off the body, and you will probably die.
There is another form, extreme smallpox, which is also known as bloody small pox or hemorrhagic. And in this type, the skin remains relatively smooth, it doesn't blister up. But you get a corrugated effect in the skin that is known by doctors as the crepe rubber skin. The whites of the eyes develop blood blisters all over them and then the skin can slip off the body in sheets while you get hemorrhages from all the natural openings of the body.
Now if a virus like this was going around. It's highly contagious. It travels in the air from person to person. It comes out of victims' mouth as they speak or as they cough. It can fill a hospital. It can spread very rapidly, like wildfire in medical settings. You've got a real problem on your hands if smallpox starts to go around.
I am not thoroughly convinced that our government takes this seriously or has adequate plans now in place.
NEVILLE: I have to take a break right now but I have many, many more questions for you. So if you would stick around for us, I'm going to ask you questions, and I want to take your questions as well.
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NEVILLE: And welcome back to this holiday edition of TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville. We continue our conversation now with author Richard Preston.
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NEVILLE: And welcome back, everybody. We're talking with Richard Preston, author of "The Demon in the Freezer." And before we go any further with Richard Preston, I want to get Kathy (ph) to go ahead and ask your question.
KATHY: I would like to know -- everyone's talking about the side effects of the vaccination. What exactly are the side effects of the vaccination?
PRESTON: OK, Kathy. That's a good question.
The vaccine is an old vaccine. It was actually invented in 1796 and Thomas Jefferson, as a matter of fact, highly recommended it to the American people. But it's biotechnology that's 200 years old. And it is a live virus called vaccinia. It's a mild virus.
When you become infected with it, your immune system goes into a state of screaming alarm and can then fight off an attack by smallpox. But the problem is that because the vaccine is a live virus, it can make some people sick who have depressed immune systems. And in our modern world, many people have depressed immune systems for any number of reasons. They may be having cancer chemotherapy, they may be elderly, they may be very young kids. People who are HIV positive, whether they know it or not. People who have had organ transplants, and people who have eczema, a history of eczema, even in their families.
So there's just a laundry list of people who may have a bad reaction to the vaccine. It's not to say that they will, but the bad reaction to the vaccine can be pretty awful. And in some instances, it can actually kill you with a disease that looks a good deal like smallpox.
NEVILLE: I have an e-mail coming in right now. Let's share that everybody. From Tom in California who says, "What impact could a terror attack of the smallpox virus have on the U.S. and world economy?"
PRESTON: I think that the experts who think about these things and do computer models of the spread of the virus, disagree about how fast it would spread. Some feel it could spread very rapidly. Others, maybe not so fast. But the one certain effect it would have, is great economic disruption.
People would not want to travel. Public transportation systems would be shut down. International borders could end up being closed very quickly. In the past, when there were smallpox outbreaks, what typically happened was the country that was experiencing the outbreak absolutely would have to shut itself off from the rest of the world.
Now, in the modern world, that could be a bad thing for developed economies, which is one reason, I think, why some countries, perhaps Iraq, would even consider the use of smallpox as a weapon. Or why it might be attractive to terrorists. After all...
NEVILLE: Richard -- Richard, quickly, if Iraq has smallpox, would the U.N. weapons inspectors be able to find it?
PRESTON: Well, they ransacked the country before. There's considerable circumstantial evidence that Iraq has smallpox, but they didn't find any. It's easy -- you can hide a little vial of it in a freezer and you'd never find it.
NEVILLE: Richard Preston, thank you so much for joining us today. Those were some serious statements you made here.
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NEVILLE: Well that's going to do it for this special Thanksgiving Day edition of TALKBACK LIVE. Thanks so much for inviting us over. We will be here again tomorrow with more TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Arthel Neville.
In the meantime, everyone, please enjoy your holiday with your family and your friends. We all have so much to be thank thankful for. We'll see you later.
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