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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Saudi Arabia Tries To Repair Image in U.S.
Aired December 03, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice over): Is this evidence of deception? As U.N. weapons inspectors pop in on a presidential palace, the Pentagon says there is more than meets the eye in Iraq. 9/11 scapegoat?
ADEL AL-JUBEIR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SAVIDGE: Or, anti-terror ally?
AL-JUBEIR: We will be vigilant. We will be determined and we will be merciless.
SAVIDGE: Saudi Arabia looks to repair its image, are Americans buying it? Training for war without firing a shot and without leaving the ground. Healthcare workers say the Bush administration is turning them into smallpox guinea pigs. And, the gloved one, he may not want you to see but all is revealed in a California courtroom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (on camera): It is Tuesday, December 03, 2002. I'm Martin Savidge in for Wolf Blitzer and I'm very happy to be with you.
To the news. Iraq seems to be cooperating with U.N. inspectors and says that it will report on its weapons program ahead of a Sunday deadline, but even if Iraq disarms, that may not be good enough for the Bush administration. Let's go live to CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre. He has more on this story.
Jamie, what's up?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin, that is exactly right. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today saying it may not be enough for Iraq to disarm but Saddam Hussein may have to end the repression of his own people in order to fully comply with that latest U.N. resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): This video from a Predator spy drone taken a week ago, shows an Iraqi spoon rest radar being parked next to what the U.S. says is a civilian facility to protect it from attack from U.S. and British planes, evidence the Pentagon says of Saddam Hussein's disregard for the lives of his own people.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I think that is, that's just an indication of how the Iraqi regime treats its civilian population and that they're willing to use them as shields.
MCINTYRE: In fact, the Pentagon appears to be upping the ante, insisting that Iraq's alleged abuse of its citizens, documented in a human rights dossier released by the British government this week, is also in violation of the U.N.'s disarmament resolution.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: That disarmament is only one of the steps required of Iraq in Resolution 1441 and the 16 Security Council resolutions that preceded it. Resolution 1441 also calls for Iraq to end repression of its civilian population.
MCINTYRE: But Rumsfeld admits his interpretation could be disputed. Ending repression isn't mentioned in the 14 main points of the latest U.N. resolution, only in the preamble where the U.N. deplores that Iraq has failed to comply with a 1991 resolution.
The U.S. also contends Iraq's firing at U.S. and British planes patrolling the no-fly zones also violates the new resolution but the U.N. has not agreed. Still, in the end, the U.S. argues it will be up to President Bush, not the inspectors and not the U.N. to decide if Iraqi compliance is enough to forestall war and the bar is set high.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEP. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We are looking for a fundamental change in attitude on the part of Iraq. Without that, there's no hope for peaceful disarmament.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Essentially, the U.S. reserves the right to take military action no matter what the U.N. and the rest of the world decides, leading what the Pentagon is calling a coalition of the willing -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Jamie McIntyre live at the Pentagon our thanks. Surprise, U.N. inspectors paid their first unannounced visit to one of Saddam Hussein's presidential palaces. CNN's Nic Robertson has the story from Baghdad.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Marty, very interesting today, two things. One is that all the inspectors went to this site together. That was a chemical, biological, nuclear missile. We've never seen that happen before, interesting the way they approached the site, coming in from the back door and the front door.
Now, they took about five minutes to get in for the Iraqi guards there to get permission to let them in. The inspectors, however, saying that they were able to see all the rooms and see all the corners in all the rooms, and certainly once the inspectors have left and the Iraqi officials are talking to journalists, they said the same things that the inspectors had been able to see everything they wanted to see. But as Iraqi officials let the journalists into the building, quite an ornate building, marble floors, crystal chandeliers, very little to know exactly what it was the inspectors were looking for there, no signs of an industrial process, no signs evident in the hall the journalists saw at least documents lying around.
Also today, an Iraqi official saying that Iraq will make its declaration of all of its weapons of mass destruction as called for in U.N. Resolution 1441. They will make it a day early, Saturday the 7th, rather than Sunday the 8th of December. They also, the same official said that in this declaration there would be new elements; however, he also said that it may not necessarily be the case these new elements would address weapons of mass destruction. He also said that as everyone knows, Iraq doesn't possess any weapons of mass destruction -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Thanks, Nic.
Well, we want to give you a view of that palace that inspectors did not get during their surprise inspection. Our CNN animation starts from space. First, we zoom into Iraq and then take you to downtown Baghdad. As we fly along the Tigress River, you will see the Al Sujud Palace. It is one of several in Baghdad. From this overhead look you can see the palace is more of a compound composed of many buildings. You can also see what appears to be a tennis court to the side, a huge broad band-shaped plaza, right there in front.
Well, if terrorists try to attack the United States with smallpox, healthcare workers will be America's first line of defense and some of them are raising questions about the government's plans. CNN Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. What are their questions, Elizabeth?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, their questions are about the president's plan for vaccinating healthcare workers. He hasn't announced it yet but word has leaked out that he plans to announce a plan for vaccinating half a million healthcare workers and then seven to ten million other healthcare workers and other first responders.
Well, the nation's largest union of healthcare workers has come out today saying wait a minute. We're not sure that our members of our union ought to be put at risk. This is a very dangerous vaccine. In fact, some people have called it probably the most dangerous vaccine that exists.
Let's take a look at some of the side effects that you can get. This is one of the side effects that you can get from the vaccine. Again, this is not smallpox. This is what you get or can get from getting the vaccine itself. Out of every million people vaccinated, one person will die from the vaccine and 15 will get life-threatening illnesses and the union is saying we're just not sure that our members want to do that. They're not opposed to vaccinations. They just say that it doesn't look like the government is going to do it in the safest way. Let's take a look at some of their specific complaints. The union is saying, for example, that everyone who is going to be given the vaccine should be offered an HIV and a pregnancy test if they're a woman. You're not supposed to give this vaccine if you're HIV positive or if you're pregnant, and so they say people ought to just not be asked if they have HIV or if they're pregnant, they ought to actually be screened.
Secondly, they say that a compensation fund ought to be set up if people are injured as a result of this vaccine. There ought to be money to compensate them. And thirdly, they're saying there should be paid sick leave. Some people get really sick from this vaccine and just sort of like feel like they have the flu and will have to miss work, and the union says that's not fair. They should be compensated.
Now, this is a voluntary vaccination. When the president makes his announcement, people can then, healthcare workers can then volunteer to get the vaccine. The union saying if our workers are going to volunteer, we think it ought to be done in as safe a way as possible -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Elizabeth Cohen with questions about smallpox, thank you very much for the update.
COHEN: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: We appreciate it.
Moving on, Saudi Arabia declares to the United States to stop pointing the finger at us, but will Americans buy what's contained in their latest public outcry? We'll hear from both sides. If it comes to war with Iraq, U.S. troops will be prepared they say because they've been playing games. We'll have a live demonstration in just a few minutes. And, it goes against the grain of drug education, but a new study says marijuana may not be the kiss of death after all. We'll talk to "Loveline's" Doctor Drew about it a little later.
And, we want to hear what you think. Our Web question of the day is, do you think marijuana is a gateway drug? Vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the latest results later in the broadcast, but first a look at news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice over): Underwater investigation, a small French submarine is being used to inspect the sunken tanker Prestige amid continuing efforts to control an oil spill off the Spanish coast. Oil from the tanker has coated Spanish beaches with sludge and killed fish, birds, and dolphins.
An overnight passenger train went off the tracks in Greece. It tumbled into a gorge and at least 17 people were injured. Investigators think the derailment was caused by rocks that fell on the tracks after an earthquake.
Double decker decked, one of London's famed double decker busses ran into a low-hanging tree branch, injuring at least eight people. Bus company officials say drivers on the roof normally steer away from the tree but concedes that something clearly went wrong this time.
The score in Britain, butlers two, prosecutors nothing, authorities have dropped charges against a second butler accused of stealing from Princess Diana's estate following the collapse of charges against the first butler, Paul Burrelle (ph). Prosecutors say there was no realistic chance of convicting the second butler Harold Brown.
Police investigating Britain's so-called trophy rapist case have arrested a 48-year-old man in Southeast England. The trophy rapist is accused of attacking ten women ranging in age from ten to 52. He took clothes from his victims, apparently to keep as mementos of his crimes and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Saudi Arabia's image in this country has suffered since it became clear that 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Now, in the wake of reports that charity money from the royal family ended up going to two of those hijackers, well the kingdom's pulling out all the stops to try to mend its image. CNN State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Call it public relations American style, from Riyadh to Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi kingdom's American educated spinmeister has taken to the airwaves to try to set the record straight. A series of recent reports alleging connections between Saudi citizens and 9/11 hijackers, al-Jubeir says, have turned his country into a convenient scapegoat.
AL-JUBEIR: I never expected to see this side of America, this visceral, knee-jerk if it's Saudi it's got to be bad reaction.
KOPPEL: Part of the problem, he says, a difference in cultures.
AL-JUBEIR: You tend to the public about expressing your emotions. We tend to be quiet and that comes across or came across after 9/11 as not caring, which is not the case.
KOPPEL: The centerpiece of al-Jubeir' PR pitch, a new reports summarizing steps the Saudis have taken since 9/11 to keep Saudi donations from falling into the hands of terrorists. The steps include auditing all charitable groups, establishing new guidelines and regulations, and insisting charities report to the foreign ministry. The report also claims the Saudis have frozen $5.6 million belonging to three individuals in 33 bank accounts with suspected links to terrorism.
AL-JUBEIR: Are all the funds accounted for? I believe in some of the charities they're not. Do we have any evidence that those funds went to terrorist groups? No, we don't. Does that mean none went? I can't answer that question.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: The Bush administration welcomed the Saudi announcement saying it is encouraged but it's unclear whether the Saudi PR blitz will be enough to counter reports about alleged contributions to terrorists by Princess Haifa al-Faisal, the wife of the Saudi ambassador here in Washington -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: I guess we will see. Andrea Koppel live at the State Department our thanks. So, will Saudi Arabia's public relations campaign pay off with the American public? Joining me now from our Washington Bureau is Stephen Push. His wife died on American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. He is the treasurer of a victim's advocacy group, Families of September 11. Thank you, sir for being with us.
STEPHEN PUSH, FAMILIES OF SEPTEMBER 11: You're welcome.
SAVIDGE: Did you buy it? Do you go along with what Saudi Arabia had to say today in defense?
PUSH: Well, Mr. Al-Jubeir is a very effective spokesperson and I was pleased to see that they have taken some steps to stem the flow of financing from Saudi Arabia to the terrorists. But, basically I'm not buying it. I still believe that Saudi Arabia is playing a double game.
SAVIDGE: So, you're not satisfied with what you've heard?
PUSH: No. No. They come to Washington and they say what they think they need to say to pacify the American public but then they go back to Saudi Arabia and they say something very different. For example, why is it that the government-controlled media allows all kinds of vehement racist comments about Christians and Jews in their official media? And yet he acts so shocked that Americans are angry at Saudis and so disappointed in America for being critical of the Saudis and yet they allow this vitriolic hate speech to go on in their own official media. It seems very disingenuous to me.
SAVIDGE: Well, what would you have wanted to hear or seen in this Saudi report?
PUSH: Well, for one thing, he mentioned that they've frozen the bank accounts of three individuals. I've hired my own private investigator to look into Saudi funding of al Qaeda and I've come up with several dozen individuals and charities and groups in Saudi Arabia that we don't have smoking guns on but very suggestive evidence that there is a significant amount of funding of al Qaeda going on.
And, he mentioned the Al-Rabida (ph) Trust as one of the institutions where they've frozen assets. Well, I'm no professional but I knew about the Al-Rabida Trust last spring. Why are we just hearing now that they're freezing the assets of this organization? SAVIDGE: Well, the Saudis would say that look the deck is stacked against us already, that there is an internal bias in the United States against our religion and against our society. Would you buy that?
PUSH: That's nonsense. I have no bias against the religion. I don't blame Islam for what happened on September 11th. I do blame the Wahabi sect in Saudi Arabia, which has developed a very hateful offshoot of Islam. It really is an insult to Islam what they're teaching but it's this Wahabi sect which started in Saudi Arabia and is being exported by wealthy Saudis around the country including to the United States and trying to poison the minds of Muslims and turn them against the west. And, the Saudi royal family because they need the support of the Wahabis to remain in power have been very reluctant to confront them and really deal with this problem in their own country.
SAVIDGE: Stephen, let me interrupt with one quick point and that is on a story I've heard about the Saudi ambassador, newly-named to Great Britain who is one of the defendants in your suit and the issue of diplomatic immunity. Have you heard on this?
PUSH: First of all, I'm not a party to that suit. I personally feel it's unfortunate that this summons has been issued. The lawyer in charge of the suit, Ron Motley (ph) when he announced it in August, promised that he would make public the evidence he had against the defendants.
He has not done that. He has filed -- he's planning to serve a summons on a member of the Saudi government, someone who potentially could be very helpful because he was in intelligence for 25 years in understanding what's going on in Saudi Arabia in the funding of terrorism.
And yet without providing any public evidence as he had promised, he's now serving a summons against this individual and I'm afraid that, even though I believe that the overall goals of the suit in weeding out terrorism funding from Saudi Arabia is an honorable one, I think this particular move may be counterproductive.
SAVIDGE: Stephen Push thank you very much for coming on the show and talking to us. We appreciate it.
PUSH: You're welcome.
SAVIDGE: Debate taken to the extreme, rivalry between two Ivy League teams turns violent we'll have the full story in just a few minutes. Michael Jackson, he was back on the stand today. We'll take you to the courthouse a little later, and how would your car hold up in a fender bender? Would you be looking at paying more than $1,000 to get it fixed? We'll have a look at the best and the worst a little later, but first the news quiz. Which car sustained the least damage in five miles per hour crash tests, Honda Accord, BMW Mini Cooper, Volkswagen Beetle, Audi A4, the answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: Pop star Michael Jackson made another courtroom appearance today. This time he wasn't wearing a mask but he was wearing only one shoe. CNN's Charles Feldman has the story in Santa Maria, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The self-proclaimed King of Pop, Michael Jackson, was in a courtroom in Santa Maria, California because of a legal case, a lawsuit against him, but there was a great amount of curiosity on the part of the press when Jackson showed up with crutches.
When I asked Jackson what happened to his foot, he said that he had been bitten by a small spider. He says it made his left foot well and he says his doctor now has him on antibiotics. Reporters were also eager to know more about that episode in Germany when Jackson appeared to be dangling his infant son from a window of his hotel suit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to know what your explanation is, Michael.
MICHAEL JACKSON, ENTERTAINER: It's my child. I love my children.
FELDMAN: As to the court case, this is the third time Michael Jackson took the stand in his own defense. What the case is all about is a promoter says that Jackson went back on his word to perform at two millennium concerts, one in Sydney, Australia, the other in Honolulu, Hawaii. But, on the stand, Jackson said nope it was the other way around, that he was shocked when he found out from the promoter and from his aides that the concerts had been canceled. Charles Feldman CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And this just in, we have more choice words from Michael Jackson. It deals with that incident you heard about in Berlin. You remember the video, Jackson dangling his child over a balcony. Jackson later issued a statement explaining the incident but that did not stop the outrage and a California attorney from filing a complaint about his treatment of his child. Now, reporters have asked him to comment and he says he has this to say, as he was returning to court after a lunch break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael what would you say about Gloria Allred?
JACKSON: Who's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's an attorney who's calling for an investigation (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as a result of the incident?
JACKSON: Tell her to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: We have a call in to the attorney. That's Gloria Allred and we hope to get an official response from her.
Well, it isn't the kind of behavior normally associated with college debating teams. Five University of Pennsylvania students face charges that they roughed up a Princeton student who was on campus last month for a debate tournament.
The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) happened about 4:00 a.m. in a lounge where the Princeton guests were sleeping. One of them was allegedly kicked, beaten, and doused with motor oil. He says he assailants threatened to set him on fire. The five students charged are not on Pennsylvania's debate team. They face a preliminary hearing tomorrow on aggravated assault and other charges.
A check of the headlines just ahead, San Francisco strippers are taking their show to the street. We'll tell you why they're off a stage and on the picket lines. An Israeli company says it's got just the thing to protect airliners from shoulder-fired missile attacks. We'll take a look at how it works in just a moment.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, we're live in the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando. I'm Miles O'Brien and this is something I've always wanted to do, fire. Fire. I just issued the command to flank an enemy tank. This is a simulated tank, of course, an M1A2, one of many simulations going on at this convention. We'll have a live report for you in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Martin Savidge in for Wolf Blitzer.
Coming up, a high-tech way to protect planes from terror.
Following last week's attempted downing of an Israeli jetliner or Kenya, there has been a scramble to find ways to protect such aircraft against shoulder-fired, heat-seeking shoulder missiles.
CNN's Jerrold Kessel has that story from Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The most dangerous time in any flight is landing or taking off. And there's also a general conception that a passenger plane is most vulnerable to attack when it's approaching or departing from the airport as happened in Mombassa last Thursday. But the risk zone, say experts, is actually much greater, up to 50 kilometers or 30 miles from the airport because a shoulder-held missile can hit a target up to a ceiling of 12,000 feet.
(voice-over): From the Tel Aviv officer of Patrick Bar-avi of Rafael, an Israeli government military research and development company, we see the planes heading for the airport.
PATRICK BAR-AVI, RAFAEL ARMAMENTS: Thirty kilometers away from the airport, the aircraft is still vulnerable, very vulnerable, almost like sitting ducks. Those aircraft are very slow, very bright. They are -- all the lights are on. Everybody can, you know, just sit down and do it, sitting ducks.
KESSEL: Bar-avi believes he has a solution, a device called brightening to ward off the shoulder-held missile threat.
BAR-AVI: A missile warning system that detects and tracts the threat the whole way, then we direct to it a light beam, a hot light beam, which diverts the threat from hitting the target. It does all of that in split seconds.
KESSEL: Fighter jets have long been equipped with deflection systems but such systems are not applicable to large commercial aircraft. September 11 was the spur for a 10-year development program at Rafael.
BAR-AVI: All the taboos were broken.
KESSEL: And since Thursday's attack, Bar-Avi says he's been fielding calls nonstop as Rafael began a crash scheme to bring brightening, adapted from military helicopters and untested on large commercial planes to fruition, and available, he says, within four months.
Jerrold Kessel, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: There's another technology to throw heat-seeking missiles off track, flares. Look at this CNN animation. Here you see a commercial jets takeoff. A tail of the plane in its heat -- we've indicated in red. Once a missile is launched, the plane sends out flares. The flares track the missile and divert it from the plane, saving lives. Again, it won't save money. Technology like this would cost up to $2 million per plane.
And if America fights a war with Iraq, it won't be doing that on the cheap either. Today, U.S. Army combat troops require specialized training for high-tech equipment, battlefield equipment, like the M-1, A-2 tank. CNN's Miles O'Brien joins us live from the Military Simulator Convention in Orlando, Florida -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Marty, it's quite a scene here. You know in many respects you might mistake this for a convention of the gaming world, but this is the real deal. A lot of the graphics technology, which is out there, used in the gaming industry has advanced simulator technology, tremendous. And of course, there's a lot more meat behind these programs since it's the deal.
Just take a look at this scene over here. There's more than 300 booths here, by far the largest Military Simulator Conference in the world, land, air and sea. And let's take a look. You probably think when you think of simulators of aviation. That comes to mind. It's also used heavily for armored applications. Jim Barrenhurst (ph) is the tank commander here. Thomas Calgo (ph), the gunner. We're aboard a simulator M1A2SEP tank and Jude Tomasello is going to kind of walk us through what's going on here as these plink the enemy, as it's called.
What are they doing?
JUDE TOMASELLO, PEOP STRI: OK, Miles, what you have are the gunner and the commander engaging targets in a simulator, virtual environment, virtual battlefield as if they were actually at war. What this does is they can train all day long without using a single bullet, a single gallon of gas. They're not tearing up the environment and most of all, they, themselves, are safe. They're not putting themselves in harm's way. There's room for error here and this is how they learn.
O'BRIEN: All right, so those are the key advantages to this simulator -- you save some money, you save the environment, you can you practice things you might not try in the real world.
TOMASELLO: Exactly.
O'BRIEN: What are the disadvantages to training this way?
TOMASELLO: Well, obviously, it's not the real thing and it will never replace the real thing but it does supplement the real thing. The constraints today are such that they don't get opportunities to go live as often as they used to and this supplements that.
O'BRIEN: Are you going to walk me through one? Jim, can you step aside. Let me be the commander here for just a moment as he lets a helicopter drop out of the sky. Hopefully, I can do it well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember your lesson?
O'BRIEN: This technology has come a long way in the last few years, hasn't it, Jude?
TOMASELLO: Yes, it has.
O'BRIEN: All right. So help me find a target here. I'm going to squeeze the trigger and go across this way. This is a forward- looking infrared radar. Are these helicopters good or bad? Are these good guys or bad guys?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bad guys.
TOMASELLO: Those are bad guys.
O'BRIEN: Those are bad guys. All right, that's good -- oh, I went a little too high. Let's come on down. Hopefully, they'd be hovering like this in the real world. Although...
TOMASELLO: These are actual dynamics and actual feedback.
O'BRIEN: All right.
TOMASELLO: It's as realistic as the tank.
O'BRIEN: All right. Now, we put a laser beam on them, right, like that, right, and then we squeeze the trigger. Let's see if I took them out.
TOMASELLO: There, you got him out.
O'BRIEN: I guess I'm ready for...
TOMASELLO: That's pretty good shooting to knock a helicopter out of the air like that.
O'BRIEN: Yes, well, I just smacked the turret right down.
TOMASELLO: Oh, you're fine. You're fine.
O'BRIEN: Imagine doing this though with the thing moving along in the desert heat, the other target not just sitting there and cooperating like one is. I imagine it's an entirely different scenario, isn't it?
TOMASELLO: It is. It's more of a fox war. That's where simulation comes into play. Things become habit. As you repeat them in simulation, they become habit.
O'BRIEN: Are you going to take -- why don't you take one there -- down there, Tom. There you go. Got it, simulation and habit and that is the key here.
It's interesting, you know, I've got to wonder how these guys pull it all off, how they put this all together. The amount of training that goes into this is pretty astounding.
TOMASELLO: Lots of training and lots of practice. And as you know, these guys do the best job in the world.
O'BRIEN: Yes, we've seen it. All right. Tom, thank very much. Jim, Jude, we appreciate it. Thanks for letting me take a few shots for a rookie here. We'll send it back to you, Marty.
SAVIDGE: All right, Miles O'Brien live from the virtual front. Thank you very much.
Well, if you have a fender bender, the last thing you want to do is pay hundreds of dollars for repairs. But for some cars, you may be handing over a lot more than that. New models put to the test. We'll tell you how they held up. And speaking of taking a licking, check this out. The full story still ahead on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: For years, conventional wisdom has been that marijuana use will eventually lead to hardcore drugs, but is that really the case? The results of a new study could surprise you. It's coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Earlier we asked, which car sustained the least damage in five mile-per-hour crash tests? The answer is the Audi A4.
The Toyota Corolla also did pretty well, while two other popular small cars fared poorly. CNN's Kathleen Koch has the story.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marty, you know, these tests are just literally at walking speed, five miles-per-hour, something that would not injure the passengers or the driver, but really, they can cause quite a lot of damage to the vehicles.
Now, let's take a look at one of the smaller vehicles, a very trendy, very retro, BMW Mini Cooper. When it hit the front angle barrier, just five miles per hour, it sustained $1,498 worth of damage. David (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is here to help explain why so damage with so much with just a slow-speed crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a big problem with the Mini Cooper is that the bumper doesn't extend very far in front of the rest of the car. You can see that you got damage to the bumper. It strokes its way through and eventually, the barrier hits the hood. So the hood needs to be repaired.
KOCH: I see a crack right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a crack in the radiator support. That needs to be replaced. The bumper reinforcement needs to be replaced. And we didn't absorb enough of the crash energy so we've actually damaged the main longitudinal structural elements and those need to be straightened out. It's a lot of time to get these repairs done and consequently, expensive damage.
KOCH: So the Mini Cooper gets a marginal. Let's take a look at one of your mid-sized, Honda Accord, very popular car, same exact test but it scored very well. It got -- only had 400 something dollars worth of damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Same test, angle barrier test, $400 to compare this damage compared to nearly $1,500 for the Mini Cooper. All of the damage here is to parts that are easy to fix and repair. There's a foam absorber that needs to be replaced, a little bit of finished work on the front cover here. Nothing behind that is damaged.
KOCH: Now, the redesigned Audi A4 though was your top performer. When you bumped it into those flat barriers in both the rear and the front, it had no damage whatsoever. I mean I find it hard to believe this is the car you used in the crash test because there's not a scratch on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Both the front and rear flat barrier test, no damage at all. A little bit more damage in the other two tests, the front angle and rear pole, but not as much as these other vehicles that we've been looking at.
KOCH: Now, let's look at the inside story literally because what you did is you have taken it apart. Now, this is what's normally inside of a bumper and you took the cover off the Audi's bumper. We see this is foam; this is not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
KOCH: And that makes a big difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. Many manufacturers use the foam to absorb the energy. In the Audi instead, we have shock absorbers that attach the bumper reinforcement to the body itself. These absorb some energy, then restore themselves after the crash so that they don't need to be repaired or replaced afterwards.
KOCH: David (UNINTELLIGIBLE), thank you very much.
And Marty, these kinds of claims of $1,000 or less, those make up nearly half of all the claims from new car owners. So if the auto manufacturers could build a better buffer, they could really make a dent in those insurance costs nationwide. Back to you.
SAVIDGE: Kathleen Koch, thank you very much.
We want to do a little news rewind here, take you back to the story we were telling you about earlier. Michael Jackson, you may remember the baby in Berlin over the balcony. Well, now, there has been a -- well, I don't want to say a suit that's been filed, but a complaint has been filed by an L.A. attorney.
Michael Jackson was asked about that as we outside the courtroom today. Let's listen in to his response. We'll follow up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you say about Gloria Allred?
JACKSON: Who's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's an attorney who's calling for an investigation by Children Services as result of the...
JACKSON: Ah, tell her to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right, there you hear it. Gloria Allred is the attorney. She joins us now on the telephone.
Gloria, I've got to ask you this. This seems a bit like headline grabbing here on your part. How serious is your intent?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Pardon me? Oh, you mean -- I thought you were going to say on Michael Jackson's part, that he told me to go to hell. SAVIDGE: No, on your part here.
ALLRED: Pardon me?
SAVIDGE: No, on your part.
ALLRED: Well, I mean, in other words, Martin, do you think that a person -- I -- see it's my view that any person who witnesses an act that they believe may be an act of child endangerment or abandonment of a child or neglect or abuse of a child or an act of cruelty towards a child, I think has a duty, a moral duty, to notify Children's Protective Services and ask for them to investigate because little babies and children cannot do that for themselves. They cannot protect themselves. It's for the rest of us to speak out and to ask the authorities to investigate, to make sure that child is protected.
SAVIDGE: All right. So what do you think of what Michael Jackson had to say to you in response?
ALLRED: Well, a famous person once said something to the effect of there's no hell like the hell of one's own personality and I think that would be something that Michael Jackson would probably have a lot of information about. And rather than engage in name calling, I think what we really needs to do is attend a parenting class and learn how to exercise better judgment rather than dangling a baby over the balcony from the fourth floor by one arm. That child could have been subjected by great bodily harm or even death. And he needs to learn that that's not funny. That's a real baby. That's not a Cabbage Patch doll and he better learn how to protect this child.
SAVIDGE: Gloria Allred, thank you very much for calling in. We appreciate it, talking to you on the telephone regarding the complaint she has now filed against Michael Jackson for the baby incident in Berlin.
Well, it flies in the face of one of the government's major anti- drug policies. A new study on teen-age marijuana use. We'll discuss it with Dr. Drew of "Love Line." WOLF BLITZER REPRTS returns right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Well, for decades, U.S. drug policy has been based on the assumption that marijuana serves as a gateway to harder drugs like cocaine, heroin. Now a study by the Rand Corporation is casting doubt on that premise. It finds that people predisposed to drug use are more likely than others to try marijuana first just because it's more available. Joining me from Los Angeles to talk about the implications of this is addiction expert, Dr. Drew Pinsky, co-host of "Love Line."
Thanks, Doctor, for being with us. You say you weren't surprised by this?
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTIONOLOGIST: I'm really not surprised. We have to examine many things about this study. One is what we call a gateway, what does that mean. And really, for people that are addictively prone, a gateway is whatever's available, whatever's culturally sort of reinforced. And marijuana is a drug that has a low perceived harm, so kids are likely to get into it. It doesn't mean it's not addictive. It's doesn't mean that people who do marijuana aren't going to go onto things, but the whole notion of a gateway really needs to be reexamined. I mean, tobacco's a gateway; alcohol is a gateway...
SAVIDGE: Well, that's just what I was going to ask. These things here that are considered legal, you say, also -- or the study seems to...
PINSKY: They -- but the notion of gateway really always implied that if you use it then you were going to go on to something else and that's not necessarily the case. A lot of people don't understand. Marijuana is a profoundly addictive drug for some people. For others, it is just simply not addictive.
Fr those who it is addictive, I've never met a drug -- and I've treated many, many hundreds of these folks -- never met one that wouldn't rather have stayed with pot their whole life. But eventually, the pot stops working. They start getting depressed. The effects of the marijuana become profound and then they graduate to something else in an attempt to solve the problems they're having with the marijuana. So often marijuana addicts, essentially, always in fact, they go on to something else. But that doesn't really meet the criteria for a gateway. It doesn't mean...
SAVIDGE: All right. Well, let me interrupt just to get in some points about parenting because it's a big concern to me, obviously. As a parent, that used and still is -- I guess in mind, it used to be a strong argument I had to a child. We would say, "Don't use marijuana, it leads to worse things."
PINSKY: Well, the idea was that this was the first illicit drug they were exposed to and that crossing that barrier into elicit use may have an important impact on them going on to other things. In reality, a lot of people are studying first alcohol exposure but by the age of 14 or 15. It looks as though early and adolescent exposure to alcohol changes the biology of the way the alcohol is conditioning the brain later on. So that actually may end up being more important than marijuana.
SAVIDGE: Could this be used by those who advocate legalizing pot, as an argument in favor of them?
PINKSY: I'm sure it will be. You know this is a strange drug. It has this remarkable political energy around it. I'm just glad to see that we're beginning to look at it systematically and scientifically and carefully and pull down some of this sort of reefer madness attitudes we've had about this drug for many years.
But the very -- that very piece, that very axiom -- aphorism, reefer madness, I've been combating that for 20 years. People can't get over how overstated the effects and the problems of marijuana have been. Let's look at it realistically. Let's accept what is scientifically sound about the drug and let's adjust our behavior accordingly.
SAVIDGE: How do you think kids are going to use this study, maybe against their own parents?
PINSKY: Of course. And I think you -- I'm picking up on your anxiety, Martin, in terms of how to get kids not to use this drug. The use of marijuana by adolescents and high school age kids is really remarkable. It's something like 60, 80 percent by senior year in high school. It is considered -- it's their drug and they aren't going to listen to anybody, any adult, about this drug because they feel as though we're pumping out misinformation on it.
Yes, they're going to grab onto this and it could become a source of defensive strategy that they'll use to try to justify their use. It doesn't mean it's good. It doesn't mean they should use it. It doesn't mean because you use it you're not going to go on to other things. There's still always that possibility and it's not a good thing for kids. There's no doubt about it.
SAVIDGE: I can see this one going around the dinner table. Dr. Drew Pinsky, co-host of "Love Line," thank you very much for joining us.
PINSKY: Thank you, my pleasure.
SAVIDGE: Here's your chance to weigh in on this very story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf. And while you're there, send us your comments and we'll try to read some of them at the end of this program. Well, we'll have the result of that question in a moment and all in a day's work, the trials and the tribulations of a Spanish matador. Check out the action when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Our "Picture of The Day" is from a bullfight in Peru that had spectators gasping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Spain's, Caesar Jiminez (ph) was fighting his first bull of the afternoon when things suddenly went wrong. Fans watched in horror as the animal got one of his horns into the bullfighter's jacket and began tossing him violently and dragging him over the ground. Finally, the jacket was ripped and Jiminez (ph) was freed. Others managed to distract the bull while Jiminez (ph) was removed from the ring. Remarkably, he suffered only minor abrasions and he was able to return a few minutes later. Fans saluted him for his bravery by hoisting him on their shoulders and carrying him around the arena.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right. Now, here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked, do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug? Sixteen percent of you said yes, 84 percent of you said no. This is, of course, not a scientific poll.
Time now to hear from you. Many of you wrote on our debate between Reverend Jerry Falwell and Congressman Barney Frank on the Supreme Court's decision to hear a case on sodomy.
Joseph writes -- "Jerry Falwell is like a car wreck and morbid fascination makes for good ratings. But he is not a spokesperson for Christianity. He is not a representative of the great majority of Christians seeking the way of Christ."
From Mohammed -- "Thank you for covering the sodomy case. All three major religions forbid homosexuality no matter what kind of theories and arguments these people provide to justify their acts. I think the congressman should be ashamed and resign."
And Ruben writes -- "I love Jesus and am an active member in church. I was appalled to see that fanatic expressing himself on the issue of sodomy. His views are not Christian. Thank God I live in a community where I am loved and respected for who am I, a bisexual Catholic."
That's all the time we have today. Join us tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern and join us weekdays at noon Eastern Time for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." I'm Martin Savidge sitting in for Wolf Blitzer.
"LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
1TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 3, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice over): Is this evidence of deception? As U.N. weapons inspectors pop in on a presidential palace, the Pentagon says there is more than meets the eye in Iraq. 9/11 scapegoat?
ADEL AL-JUBEIR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
SAVIDGE: Or, anti-terror ally?
AL-JUBEIR: We will be vigilant. We will be determined and we will be merciless.
SAVIDGE: Saudi Arabia looks to repair its image, are Americans buying it? Training for war without firing a shot and without leaving the ground. Healthcare workers say the Bush administration is turning them into smallpox guinea pigs. And, the gloved one, he may not want you to see but all is revealed in a California courtroom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (on camera): It is Tuesday, December 03, 2002. I'm Martin Savidge in for Wolf Blitzer and I'm very happy to be with you.
To the news. Iraq seems to be cooperating with U.N. inspectors and says that it will report on its weapons program ahead of a Sunday deadline, but even if Iraq disarms, that may not be good enough for the Bush administration. Let's go live to CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre. He has more on this story.
Jamie, what's up?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin, that is exactly right. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today saying it may not be enough for Iraq to disarm but Saddam Hussein may have to end the repression of his own people in order to fully comply with that latest U.N. resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): This video from a Predator spy drone taken a week ago, shows an Iraqi spoon rest radar being parked next to what the U.S. says is a civilian facility to protect it from attack from U.S. and British planes, evidence the Pentagon says of Saddam Hussein's disregard for the lives of his own people.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I think that is, that's just an indication of how the Iraqi regime treats its civilian population and that they're willing to use them as shields.
MCINTYRE: In fact, the Pentagon appears to be upping the ante, insisting that Iraq's alleged abuse of its citizens, documented in a human rights dossier released by the British government this week, is also in violation of the U.N.'s disarmament resolution.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: That disarmament is only one of the steps required of Iraq in Resolution 1441 and the 16 Security Council resolutions that preceded it. Resolution 1441 also calls for Iraq to end repression of its civilian population.
MCINTYRE: But Rumsfeld admits his interpretation could be disputed. Ending repression isn't mentioned in the 14 main points of the latest U.N. resolution, only in the preamble where the U.N. deplores that Iraq has failed to comply with a 1991 resolution.
The U.S. also contends Iraq's firing at U.S. and British planes patrolling the no-fly zones also violates the new resolution but the U.N. has not agreed. Still, in the end, the U.S. argues it will be up to President Bush, not the inspectors and not the U.N. to decide if Iraqi compliance is enough to forestall war and the bar is set high.
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEP. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We are looking for a fundamental change in attitude on the part of Iraq. Without that, there's no hope for peaceful disarmament.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Essentially, the U.S. reserves the right to take military action no matter what the U.N. and the rest of the world decides, leading what the Pentagon is calling a coalition of the willing -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Jamie McIntyre live at the Pentagon our thanks. Surprise, U.N. inspectors paid their first unannounced visit to one of Saddam Hussein's presidential palaces. CNN's Nic Robertson has the story from Baghdad.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Marty, very interesting today, two things. One is that all the inspectors went to this site together. That was a chemical, biological, nuclear missile. We've never seen that happen before, interesting the way they approached the site, coming in from the back door and the front door.
Now, they took about five minutes to get in for the Iraqi guards there to get permission to let them in. The inspectors, however, saying that they were able to see all the rooms and see all the corners in all the rooms, and certainly once the inspectors have left and the Iraqi officials are talking to journalists, they said the same things that the inspectors had been able to see everything they wanted to see. But as Iraqi officials let the journalists into the building, quite an ornate building, marble floors, crystal chandeliers, very little to know exactly what it was the inspectors were looking for there, no signs of an industrial process, no signs evident in the hall the journalists saw at least documents lying around.
Also today, an Iraqi official saying that Iraq will make its declaration of all of its weapons of mass destruction as called for in U.N. Resolution 1441. They will make it a day early, Saturday the 7th, rather than Sunday the 8th of December. They also, the same official said that in this declaration there would be new elements; however, he also said that it may not necessarily be the case these new elements would address weapons of mass destruction. He also said that as everyone knows, Iraq doesn't possess any weapons of mass destruction -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Thanks, Nic.
Well, we want to give you a view of that palace that inspectors did not get during their surprise inspection. Our CNN animation starts from space. First, we zoom into Iraq and then take you to downtown Baghdad. As we fly along the Tigress River, you will see the Al Sujud Palace. It is one of several in Baghdad. From this overhead look you can see the palace is more of a compound composed of many buildings. You can also see what appears to be a tennis court to the side, a huge broad band-shaped plaza, right there in front.
Well, if terrorists try to attack the United States with smallpox, healthcare workers will be America's first line of defense and some of them are raising questions about the government's plans. CNN Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. What are their questions, Elizabeth?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, their questions are about the president's plan for vaccinating healthcare workers. He hasn't announced it yet but word has leaked out that he plans to announce a plan for vaccinating half a million healthcare workers and then seven to ten million other healthcare workers and other first responders.
Well, the nation's largest union of healthcare workers has come out today saying wait a minute. We're not sure that our members of our union ought to be put at risk. This is a very dangerous vaccine. In fact, some people have called it probably the most dangerous vaccine that exists.
Let's take a look at some of the side effects that you can get. This is one of the side effects that you can get from the vaccine. Again, this is not smallpox. This is what you get or can get from getting the vaccine itself. Out of every million people vaccinated, one person will die from the vaccine and 15 will get life-threatening illnesses and the union is saying we're just not sure that our members want to do that. They're not opposed to vaccinations. They just say that it doesn't look like the government is going to do it in the safest way. Let's take a look at some of their specific complaints. The union is saying, for example, that everyone who is going to be given the vaccine should be offered an HIV and a pregnancy test if they're a woman. You're not supposed to give this vaccine if you're HIV positive or if you're pregnant, and so they say people ought to just not be asked if they have HIV or if they're pregnant, they ought to actually be screened.
Secondly, they say that a compensation fund ought to be set up if people are injured as a result of this vaccine. There ought to be money to compensate them. And thirdly, they're saying there should be paid sick leave. Some people get really sick from this vaccine and just sort of like feel like they have the flu and will have to miss work, and the union says that's not fair. They should be compensated.
Now, this is a voluntary vaccination. When the president makes his announcement, people can then, healthcare workers can then volunteer to get the vaccine. The union saying if our workers are going to volunteer, we think it ought to be done in as safe a way as possible -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: Elizabeth Cohen with questions about smallpox, thank you very much for the update.
COHEN: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: We appreciate it.
Moving on, Saudi Arabia declares to the United States to stop pointing the finger at us, but will Americans buy what's contained in their latest public outcry? We'll hear from both sides. If it comes to war with Iraq, U.S. troops will be prepared they say because they've been playing games. We'll have a live demonstration in just a few minutes. And, it goes against the grain of drug education, but a new study says marijuana may not be the kiss of death after all. We'll talk to "Loveline's" Doctor Drew about it a little later.
And, we want to hear what you think. Our Web question of the day is, do you think marijuana is a gateway drug? Vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the latest results later in the broadcast, but first a look at news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice over): Underwater investigation, a small French submarine is being used to inspect the sunken tanker Prestige amid continuing efforts to control an oil spill off the Spanish coast. Oil from the tanker has coated Spanish beaches with sludge and killed fish, birds, and dolphins.
An overnight passenger train went off the tracks in Greece. It tumbled into a gorge and at least 17 people were injured. Investigators think the derailment was caused by rocks that fell on the tracks after an earthquake.
Double decker decked, one of London's famed double decker busses ran into a low-hanging tree branch, injuring at least eight people. Bus company officials say drivers on the roof normally steer away from the tree but concedes that something clearly went wrong this time.
The score in Britain, butlers two, prosecutors nothing, authorities have dropped charges against a second butler accused of stealing from Princess Diana's estate following the collapse of charges against the first butler, Paul Burrelle (ph). Prosecutors say there was no realistic chance of convicting the second butler Harold Brown.
Police investigating Britain's so-called trophy rapist case have arrested a 48-year-old man in Southeast England. The trophy rapist is accused of attacking ten women ranging in age from ten to 52. He took clothes from his victims, apparently to keep as mementos of his crimes and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Saudi Arabia's image in this country has suffered since it became clear that 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Now, in the wake of reports that charity money from the royal family ended up going to two of those hijackers, well the kingdom's pulling out all the stops to try to mend its image. CNN State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Call it public relations American style, from Riyadh to Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi kingdom's American educated spinmeister has taken to the airwaves to try to set the record straight. A series of recent reports alleging connections between Saudi citizens and 9/11 hijackers, al-Jubeir says, have turned his country into a convenient scapegoat.
AL-JUBEIR: I never expected to see this side of America, this visceral, knee-jerk if it's Saudi it's got to be bad reaction.
KOPPEL: Part of the problem, he says, a difference in cultures.
AL-JUBEIR: You tend to the public about expressing your emotions. We tend to be quiet and that comes across or came across after 9/11 as not caring, which is not the case.
KOPPEL: The centerpiece of al-Jubeir' PR pitch, a new reports summarizing steps the Saudis have taken since 9/11 to keep Saudi donations from falling into the hands of terrorists. The steps include auditing all charitable groups, establishing new guidelines and regulations, and insisting charities report to the foreign ministry. The report also claims the Saudis have frozen $5.6 million belonging to three individuals in 33 bank accounts with suspected links to terrorism.
AL-JUBEIR: Are all the funds accounted for? I believe in some of the charities they're not. Do we have any evidence that those funds went to terrorist groups? No, we don't. Does that mean none went? I can't answer that question.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: The Bush administration welcomed the Saudi announcement saying it is encouraged but it's unclear whether the Saudi PR blitz will be enough to counter reports about alleged contributions to terrorists by Princess Haifa al-Faisal, the wife of the Saudi ambassador here in Washington -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: I guess we will see. Andrea Koppel live at the State Department our thanks. So, will Saudi Arabia's public relations campaign pay off with the American public? Joining me now from our Washington Bureau is Stephen Push. His wife died on American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. He is the treasurer of a victim's advocacy group, Families of September 11. Thank you, sir for being with us.
STEPHEN PUSH, FAMILIES OF SEPTEMBER 11: You're welcome.
SAVIDGE: Did you buy it? Do you go along with what Saudi Arabia had to say today in defense?
PUSH: Well, Mr. Al-Jubeir is a very effective spokesperson and I was pleased to see that they have taken some steps to stem the flow of financing from Saudi Arabia to the terrorists. But, basically I'm not buying it. I still believe that Saudi Arabia is playing a double game.
SAVIDGE: So, you're not satisfied with what you've heard?
PUSH: No. No. They come to Washington and they say what they think they need to say to pacify the American public but then they go back to Saudi Arabia and they say something very different. For example, why is it that the government-controlled media allows all kinds of vehement racist comments about Christians and Jews in their official media? And yet he acts so shocked that Americans are angry at Saudis and so disappointed in America for being critical of the Saudis and yet they allow this vitriolic hate speech to go on in their own official media. It seems very disingenuous to me.
SAVIDGE: Well, what would you have wanted to hear or seen in this Saudi report?
PUSH: Well, for one thing, he mentioned that they've frozen the bank accounts of three individuals. I've hired my own private investigator to look into Saudi funding of al Qaeda and I've come up with several dozen individuals and charities and groups in Saudi Arabia that we don't have smoking guns on but very suggestive evidence that there is a significant amount of funding of al Qaeda going on.
And, he mentioned the Al-Rabida (ph) Trust as one of the institutions where they've frozen assets. Well, I'm no professional but I knew about the Al-Rabida Trust last spring. Why are we just hearing now that they're freezing the assets of this organization? SAVIDGE: Well, the Saudis would say that look the deck is stacked against us already, that there is an internal bias in the United States against our religion and against our society. Would you buy that?
PUSH: That's nonsense. I have no bias against the religion. I don't blame Islam for what happened on September 11th. I do blame the Wahabi sect in Saudi Arabia, which has developed a very hateful offshoot of Islam. It really is an insult to Islam what they're teaching but it's this Wahabi sect which started in Saudi Arabia and is being exported by wealthy Saudis around the country including to the United States and trying to poison the minds of Muslims and turn them against the west. And, the Saudi royal family because they need the support of the Wahabis to remain in power have been very reluctant to confront them and really deal with this problem in their own country.
SAVIDGE: Stephen, let me interrupt with one quick point and that is on a story I've heard about the Saudi ambassador, newly-named to Great Britain who is one of the defendants in your suit and the issue of diplomatic immunity. Have you heard on this?
PUSH: First of all, I'm not a party to that suit. I personally feel it's unfortunate that this summons has been issued. The lawyer in charge of the suit, Ron Motley (ph) when he announced it in August, promised that he would make public the evidence he had against the defendants.
He has not done that. He has filed -- he's planning to serve a summons on a member of the Saudi government, someone who potentially could be very helpful because he was in intelligence for 25 years in understanding what's going on in Saudi Arabia in the funding of terrorism.
And yet without providing any public evidence as he had promised, he's now serving a summons against this individual and I'm afraid that, even though I believe that the overall goals of the suit in weeding out terrorism funding from Saudi Arabia is an honorable one, I think this particular move may be counterproductive.
SAVIDGE: Stephen Push thank you very much for coming on the show and talking to us. We appreciate it.
PUSH: You're welcome.
SAVIDGE: Debate taken to the extreme, rivalry between two Ivy League teams turns violent we'll have the full story in just a few minutes. Michael Jackson, he was back on the stand today. We'll take you to the courthouse a little later, and how would your car hold up in a fender bender? Would you be looking at paying more than $1,000 to get it fixed? We'll have a look at the best and the worst a little later, but first the news quiz. Which car sustained the least damage in five miles per hour crash tests, Honda Accord, BMW Mini Cooper, Volkswagen Beetle, Audi A4, the answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: Pop star Michael Jackson made another courtroom appearance today. This time he wasn't wearing a mask but he was wearing only one shoe. CNN's Charles Feldman has the story in Santa Maria, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The self-proclaimed King of Pop, Michael Jackson, was in a courtroom in Santa Maria, California because of a legal case, a lawsuit against him, but there was a great amount of curiosity on the part of the press when Jackson showed up with crutches.
When I asked Jackson what happened to his foot, he said that he had been bitten by a small spider. He says it made his left foot well and he says his doctor now has him on antibiotics. Reporters were also eager to know more about that episode in Germany when Jackson appeared to be dangling his infant son from a window of his hotel suit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to know what your explanation is, Michael.
MICHAEL JACKSON, ENTERTAINER: It's my child. I love my children.
FELDMAN: As to the court case, this is the third time Michael Jackson took the stand in his own defense. What the case is all about is a promoter says that Jackson went back on his word to perform at two millennium concerts, one in Sydney, Australia, the other in Honolulu, Hawaii. But, on the stand, Jackson said nope it was the other way around, that he was shocked when he found out from the promoter and from his aides that the concerts had been canceled. Charles Feldman CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And this just in, we have more choice words from Michael Jackson. It deals with that incident you heard about in Berlin. You remember the video, Jackson dangling his child over a balcony. Jackson later issued a statement explaining the incident but that did not stop the outrage and a California attorney from filing a complaint about his treatment of his child. Now, reporters have asked him to comment and he says he has this to say, as he was returning to court after a lunch break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael what would you say about Gloria Allred?
JACKSON: Who's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's an attorney who's calling for an investigation (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as a result of the incident?
JACKSON: Tell her to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: We have a call in to the attorney. That's Gloria Allred and we hope to get an official response from her.
Well, it isn't the kind of behavior normally associated with college debating teams. Five University of Pennsylvania students face charges that they roughed up a Princeton student who was on campus last month for a debate tournament.
The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) happened about 4:00 a.m. in a lounge where the Princeton guests were sleeping. One of them was allegedly kicked, beaten, and doused with motor oil. He says he assailants threatened to set him on fire. The five students charged are not on Pennsylvania's debate team. They face a preliminary hearing tomorrow on aggravated assault and other charges.
A check of the headlines just ahead, San Francisco strippers are taking their show to the street. We'll tell you why they're off a stage and on the picket lines. An Israeli company says it's got just the thing to protect airliners from shoulder-fired missile attacks. We'll take a look at how it works in just a moment.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, we're live in the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando. I'm Miles O'Brien and this is something I've always wanted to do, fire. Fire. I just issued the command to flank an enemy tank. This is a simulated tank, of course, an M1A2, one of many simulations going on at this convention. We'll have a live report for you in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Martin Savidge in for Wolf Blitzer.
Coming up, a high-tech way to protect planes from terror.
Following last week's attempted downing of an Israeli jetliner or Kenya, there has been a scramble to find ways to protect such aircraft against shoulder-fired, heat-seeking shoulder missiles.
CNN's Jerrold Kessel has that story from Israel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The most dangerous time in any flight is landing or taking off. And there's also a general conception that a passenger plane is most vulnerable to attack when it's approaching or departing from the airport as happened in Mombassa last Thursday. But the risk zone, say experts, is actually much greater, up to 50 kilometers or 30 miles from the airport because a shoulder-held missile can hit a target up to a ceiling of 12,000 feet.
(voice-over): From the Tel Aviv officer of Patrick Bar-avi of Rafael, an Israeli government military research and development company, we see the planes heading for the airport.
PATRICK BAR-AVI, RAFAEL ARMAMENTS: Thirty kilometers away from the airport, the aircraft is still vulnerable, very vulnerable, almost like sitting ducks. Those aircraft are very slow, very bright. They are -- all the lights are on. Everybody can, you know, just sit down and do it, sitting ducks.
KESSEL: Bar-avi believes he has a solution, a device called brightening to ward off the shoulder-held missile threat.
BAR-AVI: A missile warning system that detects and tracts the threat the whole way, then we direct to it a light beam, a hot light beam, which diverts the threat from hitting the target. It does all of that in split seconds.
KESSEL: Fighter jets have long been equipped with deflection systems but such systems are not applicable to large commercial aircraft. September 11 was the spur for a 10-year development program at Rafael.
BAR-AVI: All the taboos were broken.
KESSEL: And since Thursday's attack, Bar-Avi says he's been fielding calls nonstop as Rafael began a crash scheme to bring brightening, adapted from military helicopters and untested on large commercial planes to fruition, and available, he says, within four months.
Jerrold Kessel, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: There's another technology to throw heat-seeking missiles off track, flares. Look at this CNN animation. Here you see a commercial jets takeoff. A tail of the plane in its heat -- we've indicated in red. Once a missile is launched, the plane sends out flares. The flares track the missile and divert it from the plane, saving lives. Again, it won't save money. Technology like this would cost up to $2 million per plane.
And if America fights a war with Iraq, it won't be doing that on the cheap either. Today, U.S. Army combat troops require specialized training for high-tech equipment, battlefield equipment, like the M-1, A-2 tank. CNN's Miles O'Brien joins us live from the Military Simulator Convention in Orlando, Florida -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Marty, it's quite a scene here. You know in many respects you might mistake this for a convention of the gaming world, but this is the real deal. A lot of the graphics technology, which is out there, used in the gaming industry has advanced simulator technology, tremendous. And of course, there's a lot more meat behind these programs since it's the deal.
Just take a look at this scene over here. There's more than 300 booths here, by far the largest Military Simulator Conference in the world, land, air and sea. And let's take a look. You probably think when you think of simulators of aviation. That comes to mind. It's also used heavily for armored applications. Jim Barrenhurst (ph) is the tank commander here. Thomas Calgo (ph), the gunner. We're aboard a simulator M1A2SEP tank and Jude Tomasello is going to kind of walk us through what's going on here as these plink the enemy, as it's called.
What are they doing?
JUDE TOMASELLO, PEOP STRI: OK, Miles, what you have are the gunner and the commander engaging targets in a simulator, virtual environment, virtual battlefield as if they were actually at war. What this does is they can train all day long without using a single bullet, a single gallon of gas. They're not tearing up the environment and most of all, they, themselves, are safe. They're not putting themselves in harm's way. There's room for error here and this is how they learn.
O'BRIEN: All right, so those are the key advantages to this simulator -- you save some money, you save the environment, you can you practice things you might not try in the real world.
TOMASELLO: Exactly.
O'BRIEN: What are the disadvantages to training this way?
TOMASELLO: Well, obviously, it's not the real thing and it will never replace the real thing but it does supplement the real thing. The constraints today are such that they don't get opportunities to go live as often as they used to and this supplements that.
O'BRIEN: Are you going to walk me through one? Jim, can you step aside. Let me be the commander here for just a moment as he lets a helicopter drop out of the sky. Hopefully, I can do it well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember your lesson?
O'BRIEN: This technology has come a long way in the last few years, hasn't it, Jude?
TOMASELLO: Yes, it has.
O'BRIEN: All right. So help me find a target here. I'm going to squeeze the trigger and go across this way. This is a forward- looking infrared radar. Are these helicopters good or bad? Are these good guys or bad guys?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bad guys.
TOMASELLO: Those are bad guys.
O'BRIEN: Those are bad guys. All right, that's good -- oh, I went a little too high. Let's come on down. Hopefully, they'd be hovering like this in the real world. Although...
TOMASELLO: These are actual dynamics and actual feedback.
O'BRIEN: All right.
TOMASELLO: It's as realistic as the tank.
O'BRIEN: All right. Now, we put a laser beam on them, right, like that, right, and then we squeeze the trigger. Let's see if I took them out.
TOMASELLO: There, you got him out.
O'BRIEN: I guess I'm ready for...
TOMASELLO: That's pretty good shooting to knock a helicopter out of the air like that.
O'BRIEN: Yes, well, I just smacked the turret right down.
TOMASELLO: Oh, you're fine. You're fine.
O'BRIEN: Imagine doing this though with the thing moving along in the desert heat, the other target not just sitting there and cooperating like one is. I imagine it's an entirely different scenario, isn't it?
TOMASELLO: It is. It's more of a fox war. That's where simulation comes into play. Things become habit. As you repeat them in simulation, they become habit.
O'BRIEN: Are you going to take -- why don't you take one there -- down there, Tom. There you go. Got it, simulation and habit and that is the key here.
It's interesting, you know, I've got to wonder how these guys pull it all off, how they put this all together. The amount of training that goes into this is pretty astounding.
TOMASELLO: Lots of training and lots of practice. And as you know, these guys do the best job in the world.
O'BRIEN: Yes, we've seen it. All right. Tom, thank very much. Jim, Jude, we appreciate it. Thanks for letting me take a few shots for a rookie here. We'll send it back to you, Marty.
SAVIDGE: All right, Miles O'Brien live from the virtual front. Thank you very much.
Well, if you have a fender bender, the last thing you want to do is pay hundreds of dollars for repairs. But for some cars, you may be handing over a lot more than that. New models put to the test. We'll tell you how they held up. And speaking of taking a licking, check this out. The full story still ahead on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: For years, conventional wisdom has been that marijuana use will eventually lead to hardcore drugs, but is that really the case? The results of a new study could surprise you. It's coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Earlier we asked, which car sustained the least damage in five mile-per-hour crash tests? The answer is the Audi A4.
The Toyota Corolla also did pretty well, while two other popular small cars fared poorly. CNN's Kathleen Koch has the story.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marty, you know, these tests are just literally at walking speed, five miles-per-hour, something that would not injure the passengers or the driver, but really, they can cause quite a lot of damage to the vehicles.
Now, let's take a look at one of the smaller vehicles, a very trendy, very retro, BMW Mini Cooper. When it hit the front angle barrier, just five miles per hour, it sustained $1,498 worth of damage. David (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is here to help explain why so damage with so much with just a slow-speed crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, a big problem with the Mini Cooper is that the bumper doesn't extend very far in front of the rest of the car. You can see that you got damage to the bumper. It strokes its way through and eventually, the barrier hits the hood. So the hood needs to be repaired.
KOCH: I see a crack right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a crack in the radiator support. That needs to be replaced. The bumper reinforcement needs to be replaced. And we didn't absorb enough of the crash energy so we've actually damaged the main longitudinal structural elements and those need to be straightened out. It's a lot of time to get these repairs done and consequently, expensive damage.
KOCH: So the Mini Cooper gets a marginal. Let's take a look at one of your mid-sized, Honda Accord, very popular car, same exact test but it scored very well. It got -- only had 400 something dollars worth of damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Same test, angle barrier test, $400 to compare this damage compared to nearly $1,500 for the Mini Cooper. All of the damage here is to parts that are easy to fix and repair. There's a foam absorber that needs to be replaced, a little bit of finished work on the front cover here. Nothing behind that is damaged.
KOCH: Now, the redesigned Audi A4 though was your top performer. When you bumped it into those flat barriers in both the rear and the front, it had no damage whatsoever. I mean I find it hard to believe this is the car you used in the crash test because there's not a scratch on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Both the front and rear flat barrier test, no damage at all. A little bit more damage in the other two tests, the front angle and rear pole, but not as much as these other vehicles that we've been looking at.
KOCH: Now, let's look at the inside story literally because what you did is you have taken it apart. Now, this is what's normally inside of a bumper and you took the cover off the Audi's bumper. We see this is foam; this is not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
KOCH: And that makes a big difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. Many manufacturers use the foam to absorb the energy. In the Audi instead, we have shock absorbers that attach the bumper reinforcement to the body itself. These absorb some energy, then restore themselves after the crash so that they don't need to be repaired or replaced afterwards.
KOCH: David (UNINTELLIGIBLE), thank you very much.
And Marty, these kinds of claims of $1,000 or less, those make up nearly half of all the claims from new car owners. So if the auto manufacturers could build a better buffer, they could really make a dent in those insurance costs nationwide. Back to you.
SAVIDGE: Kathleen Koch, thank you very much.
We want to do a little news rewind here, take you back to the story we were telling you about earlier. Michael Jackson, you may remember the baby in Berlin over the balcony. Well, now, there has been a -- well, I don't want to say a suit that's been filed, but a complaint has been filed by an L.A. attorney.
Michael Jackson was asked about that as we outside the courtroom today. Let's listen in to his response. We'll follow up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you say about Gloria Allred?
JACKSON: Who's that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's an attorney who's calling for an investigation by Children Services as result of the...
JACKSON: Ah, tell her to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right, there you hear it. Gloria Allred is the attorney. She joins us now on the telephone.
Gloria, I've got to ask you this. This seems a bit like headline grabbing here on your part. How serious is your intent?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Pardon me? Oh, you mean -- I thought you were going to say on Michael Jackson's part, that he told me to go to hell. SAVIDGE: No, on your part here.
ALLRED: Pardon me?
SAVIDGE: No, on your part.
ALLRED: Well, I mean, in other words, Martin, do you think that a person -- I -- see it's my view that any person who witnesses an act that they believe may be an act of child endangerment or abandonment of a child or neglect or abuse of a child or an act of cruelty towards a child, I think has a duty, a moral duty, to notify Children's Protective Services and ask for them to investigate because little babies and children cannot do that for themselves. They cannot protect themselves. It's for the rest of us to speak out and to ask the authorities to investigate, to make sure that child is protected.
SAVIDGE: All right. So what do you think of what Michael Jackson had to say to you in response?
ALLRED: Well, a famous person once said something to the effect of there's no hell like the hell of one's own personality and I think that would be something that Michael Jackson would probably have a lot of information about. And rather than engage in name calling, I think what we really needs to do is attend a parenting class and learn how to exercise better judgment rather than dangling a baby over the balcony from the fourth floor by one arm. That child could have been subjected by great bodily harm or even death. And he needs to learn that that's not funny. That's a real baby. That's not a Cabbage Patch doll and he better learn how to protect this child.
SAVIDGE: Gloria Allred, thank you very much for calling in. We appreciate it, talking to you on the telephone regarding the complaint she has now filed against Michael Jackson for the baby incident in Berlin.
Well, it flies in the face of one of the government's major anti- drug policies. A new study on teen-age marijuana use. We'll discuss it with Dr. Drew of "Love Line." WOLF BLITZER REPRTS returns right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Well, for decades, U.S. drug policy has been based on the assumption that marijuana serves as a gateway to harder drugs like cocaine, heroin. Now a study by the Rand Corporation is casting doubt on that premise. It finds that people predisposed to drug use are more likely than others to try marijuana first just because it's more available. Joining me from Los Angeles to talk about the implications of this is addiction expert, Dr. Drew Pinsky, co-host of "Love Line."
Thanks, Doctor, for being with us. You say you weren't surprised by this?
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTIONOLOGIST: I'm really not surprised. We have to examine many things about this study. One is what we call a gateway, what does that mean. And really, for people that are addictively prone, a gateway is whatever's available, whatever's culturally sort of reinforced. And marijuana is a drug that has a low perceived harm, so kids are likely to get into it. It doesn't mean it's not addictive. It's doesn't mean that people who do marijuana aren't going to go onto things, but the whole notion of a gateway really needs to be reexamined. I mean, tobacco's a gateway; alcohol is a gateway...
SAVIDGE: Well, that's just what I was going to ask. These things here that are considered legal, you say, also -- or the study seems to...
PINSKY: They -- but the notion of gateway really always implied that if you use it then you were going to go on to something else and that's not necessarily the case. A lot of people don't understand. Marijuana is a profoundly addictive drug for some people. For others, it is just simply not addictive.
Fr those who it is addictive, I've never met a drug -- and I've treated many, many hundreds of these folks -- never met one that wouldn't rather have stayed with pot their whole life. But eventually, the pot stops working. They start getting depressed. The effects of the marijuana become profound and then they graduate to something else in an attempt to solve the problems they're having with the marijuana. So often marijuana addicts, essentially, always in fact, they go on to something else. But that doesn't really meet the criteria for a gateway. It doesn't mean...
SAVIDGE: All right. Well, let me interrupt just to get in some points about parenting because it's a big concern to me, obviously. As a parent, that used and still is -- I guess in mind, it used to be a strong argument I had to a child. We would say, "Don't use marijuana, it leads to worse things."
PINSKY: Well, the idea was that this was the first illicit drug they were exposed to and that crossing that barrier into elicit use may have an important impact on them going on to other things. In reality, a lot of people are studying first alcohol exposure but by the age of 14 or 15. It looks as though early and adolescent exposure to alcohol changes the biology of the way the alcohol is conditioning the brain later on. So that actually may end up being more important than marijuana.
SAVIDGE: Could this be used by those who advocate legalizing pot, as an argument in favor of them?
PINKSY: I'm sure it will be. You know this is a strange drug. It has this remarkable political energy around it. I'm just glad to see that we're beginning to look at it systematically and scientifically and carefully and pull down some of this sort of reefer madness attitudes we've had about this drug for many years.
But the very -- that very piece, that very axiom -- aphorism, reefer madness, I've been combating that for 20 years. People can't get over how overstated the effects and the problems of marijuana have been. Let's look at it realistically. Let's accept what is scientifically sound about the drug and let's adjust our behavior accordingly.
SAVIDGE: How do you think kids are going to use this study, maybe against their own parents?
PINSKY: Of course. And I think you -- I'm picking up on your anxiety, Martin, in terms of how to get kids not to use this drug. The use of marijuana by adolescents and high school age kids is really remarkable. It's something like 60, 80 percent by senior year in high school. It is considered -- it's their drug and they aren't going to listen to anybody, any adult, about this drug because they feel as though we're pumping out misinformation on it.
Yes, they're going to grab onto this and it could become a source of defensive strategy that they'll use to try to justify their use. It doesn't mean it's good. It doesn't mean they should use it. It doesn't mean because you use it you're not going to go on to other things. There's still always that possibility and it's not a good thing for kids. There's no doubt about it.
SAVIDGE: I can see this one going around the dinner table. Dr. Drew Pinsky, co-host of "Love Line," thank you very much for joining us.
PINSKY: Thank you, my pleasure.
SAVIDGE: Here's your chance to weigh in on this very story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf. And while you're there, send us your comments and we'll try to read some of them at the end of this program. Well, we'll have the result of that question in a moment and all in a day's work, the trials and the tribulations of a Spanish matador. Check out the action when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Our "Picture of The Day" is from a bullfight in Peru that had spectators gasping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Spain's, Caesar Jiminez (ph) was fighting his first bull of the afternoon when things suddenly went wrong. Fans watched in horror as the animal got one of his horns into the bullfighter's jacket and began tossing him violently and dragging him over the ground. Finally, the jacket was ripped and Jiminez (ph) was freed. Others managed to distract the bull while Jiminez (ph) was removed from the ring. Remarkably, he suffered only minor abrasions and he was able to return a few minutes later. Fans saluted him for his bravery by hoisting him on their shoulders and carrying him around the arena.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: All right. Now, here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked, do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug? Sixteen percent of you said yes, 84 percent of you said no. This is, of course, not a scientific poll.
Time now to hear from you. Many of you wrote on our debate between Reverend Jerry Falwell and Congressman Barney Frank on the Supreme Court's decision to hear a case on sodomy.
Joseph writes -- "Jerry Falwell is like a car wreck and morbid fascination makes for good ratings. But he is not a spokesperson for Christianity. He is not a representative of the great majority of Christians seeking the way of Christ."
From Mohammed -- "Thank you for covering the sodomy case. All three major religions forbid homosexuality no matter what kind of theories and arguments these people provide to justify their acts. I think the congressman should be ashamed and resign."
And Ruben writes -- "I love Jesus and am an active member in church. I was appalled to see that fanatic expressing himself on the issue of sodomy. His views are not Christian. Thank God I live in a community where I am loved and respected for who am I, a bisexual Catholic."
That's all the time we have today. Join us tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern and join us weekdays at noon Eastern Time for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." I'm Martin Savidge sitting in for Wolf Blitzer.
"LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
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