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American Morning
White House Not Commenting on Turkey
Aired December 04, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Iraq right now, the U.S. perspective now. Inspectors pressing on day seven now of those said to be unfettered inspections. The Bush administration is busy coalition building in the event of war with Iraq. Mixed messages, though, of support from Turkey may complicate the effort.
Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, watching and listening to the words there this morning -- good morning, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, White House officials aren't commenting on this privately or publicly. They're referring it to the Pentagon. But having said that, the deputy secretary of defense, Paul Wolfowitz, yesterday met with the Turkish foreign minister in Turkey to talk about the commitment on the war on terror on Turkey's part and understood that, yes, U.S. warplanes would be allowed to be based there. They'll also be able to use air space for a possible raid against Iraq.
But the U.S. would also like to perhaps station ground troops, tens of thousands. It seemed at least at that point the foreign minister indicated that that was a possibility and Wolfowitz had the same understanding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The next immediate step of our military planning and preparations is to identify with the kind of precision that military planners have to have which facilities might actually be used, which forces might actually be based on those facilities, which investments are required to bring those facilities up to the standards necessary for forces to operate out of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So what happened after that, the Turkish government said it was not committed, necessarily, to allowing those ground troops. What is the disconnect here? Well, it's explained that really this is not a very popular point of view among the Turkish people. It is a Muslim country. It is a neighbor to Iraq. The Turkish people desperately do not want a confrontation with Iraq. So while Turkey wants to express its support for the war on terror, as well as align itself with the United States, it is reluctant to appear too eager in doing so -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, Suzanne, a question here about strategy, and perhaps this is better to the Pentagon, but I want to know what you're picking up at the White House there. Given the massive amount of bases that are set up by the U.S. in parts south of Iraq, when it comes to Bahrain, when it comes to Oman, Saudi Arabia, Kuwaiti has a huge base there, as well.
How important, then, is it in the big picture to have Turkey's involvement and permission?
MALVEAUX: It's extremely important. There's a wide range of elements that they can use. But, first of all, the fact that it's in the north, that it neighbors Iraq, really puts a great deal of pressure on Saddam Hussein. It also would allow the United States to control the Kurdish situation so they wouldn't break away, necessarily, from Iraq, putting more pressure on Saddam. At the same time, also, they would be allowed to conduct air raids, pounding air raids, against Saddam Hussein without necessarily having to refuel, having those planes come from neighboring states, putting a lot of pressure on him.
HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks.
Yes, indeed.
Suzanne Malveaux at the White House this morning.
Thanks again.
As the U.S. continues getting ready for the possibility of war, things are getting very busy for some workers here at home. McAlester Army Ammunition Plant, located in central Oklahoma, manufactures virtually all of America's non-nuclear bombs.
Gary Tuchman is inside and joins us this morning in his exclusive report and look inside -- Gary, how goes it?
Good morning.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, good morning to you.
And you're right, almost all of the bombs the United States of America has used in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan have been made right here in McAlester, Oklahoma. This is the U.S. Army ammunition plant, a very understated name considering the fact that this is 70 square miles, 45,000 acres, three times the size of Manhattan and virtually all the non-nuclear bombs that this nation has used for the last 59 years have been made right here.
Seventy-four thousand bombs will be made in 2002. Now, no TV crew has ever been allowed to go live here. The reason for that is because it's a relatively secret place and also because of possible safety complications. We are not being permitted to go live right next to the bomb production units, because our frequencies from our live equipment could actually cause bombs to go off. But we are being allowed to go live for the first time, as we say, right inside the plant facility.
Now, as you go around, it's a very interesting topography here, you see hundreds and hundreds of bumps in the ground. These bumps are called igloos or bunkers, and this is where the finished bombs are kept. And earlier we went with one of the experts inside one of the bunkers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: In these igloos or bunkers, as you call them, we have bombs, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: How many do you have? How many bunkers are here on the grounds?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Approximately 2,200.
TUCHMAN: OK, now what are we looking at right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are 2,000 pound penetrators.
TUCHMAN: Penetrator bombs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TUCHMAN: Two thousand pounds each. What does the yellow paint on the cones indicate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That shows that its explosive loaded.
TUCHMAN: So it's loaded and ready to go?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: Ready to ship out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So these are here now in this bunker. Why are they all in separate bunkers? Why can't you have huge bunkers with hundreds and hundreds of bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's more or less with QTY (ph) distance.
TUCHMAN: So for safety reasons?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. There's so much explosive weight that you can carry in one magazine.
TUCHMAN: Now, have bombs like this been used in Afghanistan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I believe so.
TUCHMAN: And also, I imagine, the Persian Gulf War.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: But these were not the Vietnam era bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. These were probably developed in the early '90s, the late '80s. These are, like they call them bunker busters.
TUCHMAN: So these are the bunker busters, penetrator bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So how long will these be here in this bunker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It depends on when the customer's needs.
TUCHMAN: The customer being the U.S. government?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So you're just waiting to get an order and then these will be sent out and used?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: And if there's a war in Iraq, these bombs will probably be out of here pretty quickly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: As you can imagine, this is dangerous work. Since 1943 when this facility opened, 25 people here have been killed, the most recent death last year. A man was actually crushed here, an employee, when a 2,000 pound bomb fell on him. The last person killed by an explosion was in 1971. The worst case, 12 people killed by an explosion back in 1944.
Later this morning, we'll show you the bombs actually in production -- Bill, back to you.
HEMMER: Dangerous work there.
Gary, quickly here, we saw these conventional warheads, and part of the technology that is used by the military right now is this JDAM device that's applied to a conventional weapon, much like the bombs we just saw here in your story. They give it the satellite ability to geographically center on a location here, guided by computers, essentially. Can all of those weapons that we have seen now take that application of that JDAM?
TUCHMAN: Yes, they can. The bombs that are actually made here are dumb bombs. They don't have those fins that make them smart bombs that you're talking about. Most of the bombs that leave here are then sent to another facility and given those smart bomb fins, and that's what most of them here are made with the capability of doing.
HEMMER: And they give them deadly accuracy, too. Thank you, Gary.
A fascinating look inside.
Gary Tuchman, a very rare display of American firepower there in the State of Oklahoma.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 4, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get back to Iraq right now, the U.S. perspective now. Inspectors pressing on day seven now of those said to be unfettered inspections. The Bush administration is busy coalition building in the event of war with Iraq. Mixed messages, though, of support from Turkey may complicate the effort.
Suzanne Malveaux, front lawn of the White House, watching and listening to the words there this morning -- good morning, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, White House officials aren't commenting on this privately or publicly. They're referring it to the Pentagon. But having said that, the deputy secretary of defense, Paul Wolfowitz, yesterday met with the Turkish foreign minister in Turkey to talk about the commitment on the war on terror on Turkey's part and understood that, yes, U.S. warplanes would be allowed to be based there. They'll also be able to use air space for a possible raid against Iraq.
But the U.S. would also like to perhaps station ground troops, tens of thousands. It seemed at least at that point the foreign minister indicated that that was a possibility and Wolfowitz had the same understanding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The next immediate step of our military planning and preparations is to identify with the kind of precision that military planners have to have which facilities might actually be used, which forces might actually be based on those facilities, which investments are required to bring those facilities up to the standards necessary for forces to operate out of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So what happened after that, the Turkish government said it was not committed, necessarily, to allowing those ground troops. What is the disconnect here? Well, it's explained that really this is not a very popular point of view among the Turkish people. It is a Muslim country. It is a neighbor to Iraq. The Turkish people desperately do not want a confrontation with Iraq. So while Turkey wants to express its support for the war on terror, as well as align itself with the United States, it is reluctant to appear too eager in doing so -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, Suzanne, a question here about strategy, and perhaps this is better to the Pentagon, but I want to know what you're picking up at the White House there. Given the massive amount of bases that are set up by the U.S. in parts south of Iraq, when it comes to Bahrain, when it comes to Oman, Saudi Arabia, Kuwaiti has a huge base there, as well.
How important, then, is it in the big picture to have Turkey's involvement and permission?
MALVEAUX: It's extremely important. There's a wide range of elements that they can use. But, first of all, the fact that it's in the north, that it neighbors Iraq, really puts a great deal of pressure on Saddam Hussein. It also would allow the United States to control the Kurdish situation so they wouldn't break away, necessarily, from Iraq, putting more pressure on Saddam. At the same time, also, they would be allowed to conduct air raids, pounding air raids, against Saddam Hussein without necessarily having to refuel, having those planes come from neighboring states, putting a lot of pressure on him.
HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks.
Yes, indeed.
Suzanne Malveaux at the White House this morning.
Thanks again.
As the U.S. continues getting ready for the possibility of war, things are getting very busy for some workers here at home. McAlester Army Ammunition Plant, located in central Oklahoma, manufactures virtually all of America's non-nuclear bombs.
Gary Tuchman is inside and joins us this morning in his exclusive report and look inside -- Gary, how goes it?
Good morning.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bill, good morning to you.
And you're right, almost all of the bombs the United States of America has used in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan have been made right here in McAlester, Oklahoma. This is the U.S. Army ammunition plant, a very understated name considering the fact that this is 70 square miles, 45,000 acres, three times the size of Manhattan and virtually all the non-nuclear bombs that this nation has used for the last 59 years have been made right here.
Seventy-four thousand bombs will be made in 2002. Now, no TV crew has ever been allowed to go live here. The reason for that is because it's a relatively secret place and also because of possible safety complications. We are not being permitted to go live right next to the bomb production units, because our frequencies from our live equipment could actually cause bombs to go off. But we are being allowed to go live for the first time, as we say, right inside the plant facility.
Now, as you go around, it's a very interesting topography here, you see hundreds and hundreds of bumps in the ground. These bumps are called igloos or bunkers, and this is where the finished bombs are kept. And earlier we went with one of the experts inside one of the bunkers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: In these igloos or bunkers, as you call them, we have bombs, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: How many do you have? How many bunkers are here on the grounds?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Approximately 2,200.
TUCHMAN: OK, now what are we looking at right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are 2,000 pound penetrators.
TUCHMAN: Penetrator bombs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TUCHMAN: Two thousand pounds each. What does the yellow paint on the cones indicate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That shows that its explosive loaded.
TUCHMAN: So it's loaded and ready to go?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: Ready to ship out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So these are here now in this bunker. Why are they all in separate bunkers? Why can't you have huge bunkers with hundreds and hundreds of bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's more or less with QTY (ph) distance.
TUCHMAN: So for safety reasons?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. There's so much explosive weight that you can carry in one magazine.
TUCHMAN: Now, have bombs like this been used in Afghanistan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I believe so.
TUCHMAN: And also, I imagine, the Persian Gulf War.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: But these were not the Vietnam era bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. These were probably developed in the early '90s, the late '80s. These are, like they call them bunker busters.
TUCHMAN: So these are the bunker busters, penetrator bombs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So how long will these be here in this bunker?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It depends on when the customer's needs.
TUCHMAN: The customer being the U.S. government?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: So you're just waiting to get an order and then these will be sent out and used?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN: And if there's a war in Iraq, these bombs will probably be out of here pretty quickly?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: As you can imagine, this is dangerous work. Since 1943 when this facility opened, 25 people here have been killed, the most recent death last year. A man was actually crushed here, an employee, when a 2,000 pound bomb fell on him. The last person killed by an explosion was in 1971. The worst case, 12 people killed by an explosion back in 1944.
Later this morning, we'll show you the bombs actually in production -- Bill, back to you.
HEMMER: Dangerous work there.
Gary, quickly here, we saw these conventional warheads, and part of the technology that is used by the military right now is this JDAM device that's applied to a conventional weapon, much like the bombs we just saw here in your story. They give it the satellite ability to geographically center on a location here, guided by computers, essentially. Can all of those weapons that we have seen now take that application of that JDAM?
TUCHMAN: Yes, they can. The bombs that are actually made here are dumb bombs. They don't have those fins that make them smart bombs that you're talking about. Most of the bombs that leave here are then sent to another facility and given those smart bomb fins, and that's what most of them here are made with the capability of doing.
HEMMER: And they give them deadly accuracy, too. Thank you, Gary.
A fascinating look inside.
Gary Tuchman, a very rare display of American firepower there in the State of Oklahoma.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
