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Former Weapons Inspector Discusses Iraq

Aired December 05, 2002 - 11:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: President Saddam Hussein says that he's giving U.N. inspectors a chance to prove what Iraq has maintained all along, that it has no weapons of mass destruction.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has the latest now, live from Baghdad.

Hello -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Leon, President Saddam Hussein telling the people of Iraq that these U.N. weapons inspectors should be allowed the opportunity to look through the country for weapons of mass destruction. He says, of course, Iraq does not have such weapons of mass destruction.

0It's been a very interesting week here, Leon, starting out with good cooperation, degenerating, however, into accusations of unnecessary visits to presidential palaces, accusations that the inspectors are, in fact, spying for the United States and Israel. Despite that, however, the inspectors have been able to go about their work freely.

Searching high and searching low. U.N. weapons inspectors have now spent a week, crawling through an ornate presidential palace, corn fields littered with dilapidated aircraft, three gin factories, and an assortment of industrial complexes. Coming up with, well, little that can be shared with journalists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not authorized to disclose the outcome of the inspection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: The lack of detail is not for a lack of trying. Each day, journalists have risked disaster on Iraq's highways to follow inspectors. Occasionally, the inspectors clearly displeased at such close attention. But the dominant message, good cooperation between the U.N. and Iraqi officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY. GENERAL: It's only been a week. And obviously, the cooperation seems to be good, but this is not a one- week wonder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: After getting lost on the first day, inspectors on day two quickly hunted down a missing biowarfare fermenter, visited a chemical defense facility on day four, what the Iraqis call a sensitive site. On day five, an alcohol factory, never visited before by inspectors. And maybe from the look of the U.N. nuclear experts, a site never to be visited again. Day six, a super sensitive presidential palace compound. Full access, according to the U.N. Day seven, a remote, desert complex.

And as with all sites, journalists left on the outside while the inspectors are on the inside, doing their work. Only they know the true importance of their discoveries. But even the inspectors admit it's going to take many more days and weeks like this before they can build an accurate picture of what Iraq may or may not have. Already, for the U.N. inspectors taking heat from Washington for not working fast enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIMITRI PERRICOS, UN INSPECTIONS TEAM LEADER: It's the United Nations that sent us here. We're not serving the U.S. We're not serving the U.K.. We're not serving an individual nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Taking heat in Baghdad, too, Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan, however, in comments to an Egyptian delegation at the end of the week, directly attacking the integrity of the inspectors, accusing them of spying for the United States and Israel.

In a week that had started well, a sense that the level of pressure on everyone involved is rising.

Now, no indication, Leon, that this means the inspectors are going to stop their work. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Really, the declaration from the Iraqi authorities due this week and at the same time, a team of 35 more inspectors arriving into the country, so we're likely to see many more inspections starting by early next week, Leon.

HARRIS: You know, Nic, I know these inspectors aren't giving you any information about what they're finding when they go out. They're being very -- they're playing that very close to the chest. But I wonder if they're saying anything to you about the way they've been prepared for this job. I want to ask you about some words that have are coming from Dimetrius Perricos, who is one of the inspectors who's looking at the biological and chemical and missile inspections.

He's been saying some things in the press recently. They sound very critical of the administration here, saying that they have not given him -- sounding like the U.S. has not given the inspectors the same information that the U.S. has, and they don't think they're fully armed with information there on what to look or where to look, rather, and what to look for. Are they saying anything like that to you? ROBERTSON: Well, Dimitri Perricos is the head of the -- or the team leader, if you will, of the nuclear -- rather, the biological, chemical and missile inspectors. And he does seem, in the last few days, at least, to have really been feeling that pressure that he says is coming from Washington, the pressure that he should be working harder and faster.

But he hasn't shared with us the idea that there isn't enough -- he isn't getting enough information to do his job. Far from it, really. He's been telling us that they know where they want to go, that they have a lot of sites to visit, and they have, in their minds, a very clear road map ahead of what they do. That road map likely to be altered, however, after the declaration this weekend.

But the idea that they're feeling the pressure here from both the Iraqis and from the United States is something that he really succumbed to, if you will, in a press briefing yesterday, saying, look, we're here for the United Nations, not for the U.S., not for Great Britain, not for any other individual country. And here in Iraq, the local press and certainly the inspectors get translations of it, telling the inspectors they're at a crossroads. You can choose now. Do you become like the inspectors back in the 1990s, have a contentious relationship with the Iraqis, or do you do your work professionally -- Leon.

HARRIS: Very good. Interesting. Thanks, Nic. Nic Robertson, reporting live for us from Baghdad.

Now, let's talk some more about this, and ask the same question, if I can, of a former weapons inspector, Garth Whitty, is a former inspector, and he is with us right now in our London bureau.

Mr. Whitty, thank you for taking time and talking with us today. I'm wondering if you've seen these comments that have come from Mr. Perricos, who is the inspector now looking at this chemical and biological and missile programs, who seems to be indicating that he doesn't think that the Bush administration is really giving enough information to these inspectors about what to look for and where to look for them. Do you have that same sense?

GARTH WHITTY, FORMER WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, I think to be honest, it's in everyone's interest to give them as much information as possible, Despite the rhetoric, I don't think too many people actually want war. So it's in the interest to pass on as much information as we possibly can to mitigate the likelihood of there being a war.

HARRIS: Well, right now, I'm sure you've heard that the Iraqis, of course, are wanting these inspectors to go soft. The administration here is forcing them or pushing them to actually be more aggressive in the inspections. The U.N. is saying that they think things are going along just fine. Where do you think the truth lies in all of this?

WHITTY: I think the reality is that inspectors have to be robust, but what we can't get away from, the fact that they also need the cooperation of the Iraqis. So they have to satisfy a number of masters, and people obviously, ultimately in the United Nations. But also individual countries. To be successful, they've got to walk the tightrope, as it was, and produce the goods without causing undue upsets, but at the same time not letting anyone away with anything.

HARRIS: Let me ask you also about the inspectors and the number of them that are over there on the ground right now. You have personal experience with this, you've been there, you know how big the country is, you know how many different sites there may have to be examined. What do you make of the amount of inspectors who are there and the fact that they're starting by looking at places that have already been searched by the U.N. experts back in the '90s? They haven't gone to any new sites just yet. With that in mind, do you think there are enough inspectors there to do this job properly?

WHITTY: I suspect the answer is there will never be enough inspectors. There's always a limitation on the amount of manpower available and supporting resources. In terms of going to sites that have already been visited, I think that's absolutely critical to establish a baseline, to make sure that things are as they should be in those sites.

But when we talk about searching palace complexes, we could have hundreds of people searching them for very long periods, and if anything is very carefully hidden, it's a very difficult task. But on top of that, there has been time to move equipment, should that be desired on the part of the Iraqis.

HARRIS: Well, the task at hand right now for the Iraqis is to come up with this report on their weapons programs. And they're supposed to -- and they say they're going to be delivering this a day early, on Saturday, and it's due on Sunday. What do you think we should expect to see in this report?

WHITTY: I don't think we'll see any surprises. I doubt very much there will be a declaration of the possession of any weapons of mass destruction. What I suspect we will see is equipment and material that may be construed as dual use, but certainly not information declaring a significant WMD program.

HARRIS: You don't think that the Iraqis would at least come up with a least a couple of new nuggets which would at least indicate that they've gone a step further, to call off the dogs here?

WHITTY: They may declare residual equipment and weaponry. I read a report earlier today I think that suggested some -- one 55 millimeter artillery shells with mustard fills have been found and it's highly likely that's residual from previous inspections, you know, things that hadn't perhaps been cleared up as well as they might have been, but I don't anticipate any major new information suggesting that they have the capability.

HARRIS: Interesting. Garth Whitty, former weapons inspector, thank you for your time today, sir. We appreciate it.

WHITTY: Thank you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 5, 2002 - 11:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: President Saddam Hussein says that he's giving U.N. inspectors a chance to prove what Iraq has maintained all along, that it has no weapons of mass destruction.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has the latest now, live from Baghdad.

Hello -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Leon, President Saddam Hussein telling the people of Iraq that these U.N. weapons inspectors should be allowed the opportunity to look through the country for weapons of mass destruction. He says, of course, Iraq does not have such weapons of mass destruction.

0It's been a very interesting week here, Leon, starting out with good cooperation, degenerating, however, into accusations of unnecessary visits to presidential palaces, accusations that the inspectors are, in fact, spying for the United States and Israel. Despite that, however, the inspectors have been able to go about their work freely.

Searching high and searching low. U.N. weapons inspectors have now spent a week, crawling through an ornate presidential palace, corn fields littered with dilapidated aircraft, three gin factories, and an assortment of industrial complexes. Coming up with, well, little that can be shared with journalists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not authorized to disclose the outcome of the inspection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: The lack of detail is not for a lack of trying. Each day, journalists have risked disaster on Iraq's highways to follow inspectors. Occasionally, the inspectors clearly displeased at such close attention. But the dominant message, good cooperation between the U.N. and Iraqi officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY. GENERAL: It's only been a week. And obviously, the cooperation seems to be good, but this is not a one- week wonder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: After getting lost on the first day, inspectors on day two quickly hunted down a missing biowarfare fermenter, visited a chemical defense facility on day four, what the Iraqis call a sensitive site. On day five, an alcohol factory, never visited before by inspectors. And maybe from the look of the U.N. nuclear experts, a site never to be visited again. Day six, a super sensitive presidential palace compound. Full access, according to the U.N. Day seven, a remote, desert complex.

And as with all sites, journalists left on the outside while the inspectors are on the inside, doing their work. Only they know the true importance of their discoveries. But even the inspectors admit it's going to take many more days and weeks like this before they can build an accurate picture of what Iraq may or may not have. Already, for the U.N. inspectors taking heat from Washington for not working fast enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIMITRI PERRICOS, UN INSPECTIONS TEAM LEADER: It's the United Nations that sent us here. We're not serving the U.S. We're not serving the U.K.. We're not serving an individual nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Taking heat in Baghdad, too, Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan, however, in comments to an Egyptian delegation at the end of the week, directly attacking the integrity of the inspectors, accusing them of spying for the United States and Israel.

In a week that had started well, a sense that the level of pressure on everyone involved is rising.

Now, no indication, Leon, that this means the inspectors are going to stop their work. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Really, the declaration from the Iraqi authorities due this week and at the same time, a team of 35 more inspectors arriving into the country, so we're likely to see many more inspections starting by early next week, Leon.

HARRIS: You know, Nic, I know these inspectors aren't giving you any information about what they're finding when they go out. They're being very -- they're playing that very close to the chest. But I wonder if they're saying anything to you about the way they've been prepared for this job. I want to ask you about some words that have are coming from Dimetrius Perricos, who is one of the inspectors who's looking at the biological and chemical and missile inspections.

He's been saying some things in the press recently. They sound very critical of the administration here, saying that they have not given him -- sounding like the U.S. has not given the inspectors the same information that the U.S. has, and they don't think they're fully armed with information there on what to look or where to look, rather, and what to look for. Are they saying anything like that to you? ROBERTSON: Well, Dimitri Perricos is the head of the -- or the team leader, if you will, of the nuclear -- rather, the biological, chemical and missile inspectors. And he does seem, in the last few days, at least, to have really been feeling that pressure that he says is coming from Washington, the pressure that he should be working harder and faster.

But he hasn't shared with us the idea that there isn't enough -- he isn't getting enough information to do his job. Far from it, really. He's been telling us that they know where they want to go, that they have a lot of sites to visit, and they have, in their minds, a very clear road map ahead of what they do. That road map likely to be altered, however, after the declaration this weekend.

But the idea that they're feeling the pressure here from both the Iraqis and from the United States is something that he really succumbed to, if you will, in a press briefing yesterday, saying, look, we're here for the United Nations, not for the U.S., not for Great Britain, not for any other individual country. And here in Iraq, the local press and certainly the inspectors get translations of it, telling the inspectors they're at a crossroads. You can choose now. Do you become like the inspectors back in the 1990s, have a contentious relationship with the Iraqis, or do you do your work professionally -- Leon.

HARRIS: Very good. Interesting. Thanks, Nic. Nic Robertson, reporting live for us from Baghdad.

Now, let's talk some more about this, and ask the same question, if I can, of a former weapons inspector, Garth Whitty, is a former inspector, and he is with us right now in our London bureau.

Mr. Whitty, thank you for taking time and talking with us today. I'm wondering if you've seen these comments that have come from Mr. Perricos, who is the inspector now looking at this chemical and biological and missile programs, who seems to be indicating that he doesn't think that the Bush administration is really giving enough information to these inspectors about what to look for and where to look for them. Do you have that same sense?

GARTH WHITTY, FORMER WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, I think to be honest, it's in everyone's interest to give them as much information as possible, Despite the rhetoric, I don't think too many people actually want war. So it's in the interest to pass on as much information as we possibly can to mitigate the likelihood of there being a war.

HARRIS: Well, right now, I'm sure you've heard that the Iraqis, of course, are wanting these inspectors to go soft. The administration here is forcing them or pushing them to actually be more aggressive in the inspections. The U.N. is saying that they think things are going along just fine. Where do you think the truth lies in all of this?

WHITTY: I think the reality is that inspectors have to be robust, but what we can't get away from, the fact that they also need the cooperation of the Iraqis. So they have to satisfy a number of masters, and people obviously, ultimately in the United Nations. But also individual countries. To be successful, they've got to walk the tightrope, as it was, and produce the goods without causing undue upsets, but at the same time not letting anyone away with anything.

HARRIS: Let me ask you also about the inspectors and the number of them that are over there on the ground right now. You have personal experience with this, you've been there, you know how big the country is, you know how many different sites there may have to be examined. What do you make of the amount of inspectors who are there and the fact that they're starting by looking at places that have already been searched by the U.N. experts back in the '90s? They haven't gone to any new sites just yet. With that in mind, do you think there are enough inspectors there to do this job properly?

WHITTY: I suspect the answer is there will never be enough inspectors. There's always a limitation on the amount of manpower available and supporting resources. In terms of going to sites that have already been visited, I think that's absolutely critical to establish a baseline, to make sure that things are as they should be in those sites.

But when we talk about searching palace complexes, we could have hundreds of people searching them for very long periods, and if anything is very carefully hidden, it's a very difficult task. But on top of that, there has been time to move equipment, should that be desired on the part of the Iraqis.

HARRIS: Well, the task at hand right now for the Iraqis is to come up with this report on their weapons programs. And they're supposed to -- and they say they're going to be delivering this a day early, on Saturday, and it's due on Sunday. What do you think we should expect to see in this report?

WHITTY: I don't think we'll see any surprises. I doubt very much there will be a declaration of the possession of any weapons of mass destruction. What I suspect we will see is equipment and material that may be construed as dual use, but certainly not information declaring a significant WMD program.

HARRIS: You don't think that the Iraqis would at least come up with a least a couple of new nuggets which would at least indicate that they've gone a step further, to call off the dogs here?

WHITTY: They may declare residual equipment and weaponry. I read a report earlier today I think that suggested some -- one 55 millimeter artillery shells with mustard fills have been found and it's highly likely that's residual from previous inspections, you know, things that hadn't perhaps been cleared up as well as they might have been, but I don't anticipate any major new information suggesting that they have the capability.

HARRIS: Interesting. Garth Whitty, former weapons inspector, thank you for your time today, sir. We appreciate it.

WHITTY: Thank you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com