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CNN Live Saturday
Iraq Delivers Weapons Report to U.N.
Aired December 07, 2002 - 17:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more now about a busy day in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. Iraq delivered its mass weapons report to U.N. officials in Iraq, and it will be flown to New York tomorrow.
Also today, Saddam Hussein apologized to residents of Kuwait for invading their country 12 years ago. Kuwait emphatically rejected the apology. Nic Robertson has more now from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): A very interesting message from the leadership in Iraq to the people of Kuwait. Very interesting that they should deliver it to the people of Kuwait, not the Kuwaiti leadership. Iraq seems to have given up on winning support of the Kuwaiti leadership.
Of course, it is very important to Iraq at this time. Iraq sees its best method of defense against possible attack is to win support of neighboring countries in the region, Kuwait one of the primary countries that would be a launching pad for any war, any strike against Iraq.
In this message saying that the -- to the people of Kuwait that the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 was because it feared attack from the United States coming through Kuwait at that time.
Timing, as well, very important with this statement. Appearing to tie in Iraq pointing out that in 1989, the United States had war games in Kuwait, the timing of this seeming to be quite important, with the war games the U.S. is currently planning in the Gulf state of Qatar. Also in this statement, telling the people of Kuwait that they are being isolated by their leadership, that their leadership are coming under the influence of foreign powers, that in fact their leadership is being turned into agents for oil companies in the West, but perhaps most significantly in this statement, Iraq's leadership apologizing to the people of Kuwait for invading their country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We apologize to you. What we wish for you is what we wish for your brothers in Iraq, to live free from foreign rule and intervention in your wealth and future, and to remain free and faithful and serve your own interests and not allying yourself with aggressors.
ROBERTSON: As that message being delivered on Iraqi TV, Iraqi officials delivering to U.N. headquarters on the outskirts of Baghdad Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction. A very short handover.
Shortly before that, however, journalists had had an opportunity to look at the contents of Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction. Some 60 pamphlets, brochures and books laid out on a table, very neatly, all A-4 paper, some of the pages titled "A complete declaration," some of them saying, "currently accurate" on them. We are told some 11,807 pages, 1,300 on biological weapons issues, 1,800 on chemical weapons issues, 6,800 on missile issues. The remainder of the papers, we understand, dealing with nuclear issues.
Now, also with that declaration, some 529 megabytes of information contained on 12 CD-Roms. An Iraqi official, the head of Iraq's National Monitoring Directorate here, General Hussam Amin (ph), said that this declaration should be enough to head off any possibility of war. He said the United States should give this declaration a full reading and a full review.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, that Iraqi declaration will be precious cargo tomorrow on a plane that departs from Baghdad and lands in New York City. More than 11,000 pages of materials will be delivered to U.N. headquarters later in the day. Our Michael Okwu joins us now from the U.N.
Michael, so what happens when the document actually gets there?
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the next step is that chief weapons inspector Hans Blix would take it and essentially start siphoning through it, basically looking at what might be deemed to be very sensitive material on it. Blix, acting on the behalf of the Security Council, essentially is going to be editing out those sensitive areas because in his view and in the minds of the other Security Council ambassadors, they do not want to provide a manual for weapons of mass destruction.
He also made the point that if they actually convey this information out to the general public, they may very well be violating international treaties and conventions, so some of this document is going to be under wraps for quite some time. He's going to have an initial assessment, which he will provide to the Security Council sometime in the coming weeks, but we are told certainly weeks and not days -- Carol.
LIN: Well, Michael, what are the larger implications then of actually editing out parts of this document?
OKWU: Well, in very simple language, Carol, it's a very big deal, because basically, what has always been the understanding here is that the Security Council, who, of course, is acting for capitals around the world, that they would be trying to match up information that was garnered, that would be garnered by international intelligence agencies, and they would be basically comparing that information independently arrived at, trying to compare that with information in the document.
In addition to that, U.N. officials are hoping to take information that they already had. There are some one million pages in a dossier in a file, derived from other past declarations that the Iraqis have made, and they would be comparing all this information, to basically try to assess whether or not the Iraqis are being complicit. It makes it very, very difficult to do this if they do not have all sections of the document. So this is an issue, Carol, that they're going to be trying to resolve very, very quickly.
LIN: So I understand that actually the weapons inspections will still continue on the ground in and around Baghdad, but what is the point of those weapons inspections if the real meat of what they should be looking for is actually contained in these documents?
OKWU: Well, actually, this document is going to be very, very helpful for the inspectors on the ground. Even though Hans Blix is going to be keeping this information secret for quite some time while he looks over the sensitive materials, nobody is assuming that he's not going to be sharing this information with the rest of his inspection team.
So because Iraq has to declare everything that they have, all their facilities including what are commonly referred to as dual use facilities, those are civilian or industrial facilities that might be involved in chemical, biological agencies, that sort of thing, that because they are looking at this material, Hans Blix will be able to tell his inspectors where to basically look, because this is now something that the Iraqis have officially stated in their papers.
LIN: All right. Good point. Thank you very much, Michael Okwu, reporting live in New York.
Well, the president of the United States has been pretty circumspect so far about any progress made on the ground or what these documents may or may not actually declare. We're going to go to Suzanne Malveaux, our White House correspondent now at the White House with more on this -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, the White House is really marking this as the beginning of a process. They say sifting through all these documents could take days if not weeks, but the Bush administration says the end game, the goal is to determine whether or not Saddam Hussein will disarm peacefully.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): President Bush says his administration will reserve judgment on the Iraqi declaration until it has thoroughly examined the document. But in a written statement, the White House expressed some skepticism about its truthfulness. It says: "The Iraqi regime today submitted what it claims is a declaration of its programs to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles and other delivery systems.
A currently accurate, full and complete declaration is required." But if Saddam Hussein doesn't deliver, doesn't come clean, Mr. Bush warned in his weekly radio address that the Iraqi leader would be putting his country on the path to war.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States will be making only one judgment, has Saddam Hussein changed his behavior of the last 11 years and decided to cooperate willingly and comply completely, or has he not?
MALVEAUX: Administration officials say if there are any misstatements in the Iraqi documents, the White House will declare that Iraq is in material breach of the U.N. Security Council resolution, but that will not mean immediate military action. Instead, the administration will provide weapons inspectors with some U.S. intelligence, not all, to help them prove Saddam Hussein is hiding his weapons programs.
But the question is whether that will be enough to push U.S. allies to force Saddam Hussein to disarm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the administration has to on the one hand keep the pressure on but also recognize that most other countries are going to want more than the administration's say so as proof that Iraq is concealing its WMD program.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, the administration is fully aware that it's engaged now in a public relations war with Iraq, apparently cooperating with inspectors, beating the deadline to submit the declaration, even apologizing for invading Kuwait. Mr. Bush is warning allies, don't be fooled. Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction -- Carol.
LIN: You know, the thing is, Hans Blix on the ground in Baghdad has complained that if the Bush administration has specific information where weapons of mass destruction are actually being stored, actual proof of it, then why doesn't the Bush administration just tell Hans Blix and the inspectors where to go and prove the case?
MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. That's a point of debate that is actually taking place within the administration. There are really two schools of thought. Once they find and they do expect to find that Saddam Hussein is not being truthful in this declaration, do they lean more on the inspectors, the weapons inspectors, provide them with much U.S. intelligence, or they hold back and use that U.S. intelligence to make the case for themselves?
There is a security concern that they have. They don't want to release all of this intelligence, but of course, yes, that is a point of contention, it is something that is being discussed within the administration, as well as the United Nations.
LIN: But Suzanne, who is it that they don't trust? Who would be the security breach then? The inspectors themselves? MALVEAUX: I think it's a matter that they don't trust these inspectors, but it's fair to say that the administration, some within the administration, have been concerned that perhaps inspectors have not been tough enough, that perhaps Saddam Hussein will defy them, will fool them and that they'll become complacent if the administration doesn't keep pushing this argument that Saddam Hussein has a history, 11 years of defying the U.N. Security Council, beating these resolutions, that they really want to make sure that they hold them to that, and the concern is that, no, none of these allies want to go to war. The administration doesn't want to go to war either, but that because they don't want to go to war, they may be a little bit lenient on Saddam Hussein in terms of getting those inspections done.
LIN: All right, thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, reporting live at the White House.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 7, 2002 - 17:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more now about a busy day in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad. Iraq delivered its mass weapons report to U.N. officials in Iraq, and it will be flown to New York tomorrow.
Also today, Saddam Hussein apologized to residents of Kuwait for invading their country 12 years ago. Kuwait emphatically rejected the apology. Nic Robertson has more now from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): A very interesting message from the leadership in Iraq to the people of Kuwait. Very interesting that they should deliver it to the people of Kuwait, not the Kuwaiti leadership. Iraq seems to have given up on winning support of the Kuwaiti leadership.
Of course, it is very important to Iraq at this time. Iraq sees its best method of defense against possible attack is to win support of neighboring countries in the region, Kuwait one of the primary countries that would be a launching pad for any war, any strike against Iraq.
In this message saying that the -- to the people of Kuwait that the reason Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 was because it feared attack from the United States coming through Kuwait at that time.
Timing, as well, very important with this statement. Appearing to tie in Iraq pointing out that in 1989, the United States had war games in Kuwait, the timing of this seeming to be quite important, with the war games the U.S. is currently planning in the Gulf state of Qatar. Also in this statement, telling the people of Kuwait that they are being isolated by their leadership, that their leadership are coming under the influence of foreign powers, that in fact their leadership is being turned into agents for oil companies in the West, but perhaps most significantly in this statement, Iraq's leadership apologizing to the people of Kuwait for invading their country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We apologize to you. What we wish for you is what we wish for your brothers in Iraq, to live free from foreign rule and intervention in your wealth and future, and to remain free and faithful and serve your own interests and not allying yourself with aggressors.
ROBERTSON: As that message being delivered on Iraqi TV, Iraqi officials delivering to U.N. headquarters on the outskirts of Baghdad Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction. A very short handover.
Shortly before that, however, journalists had had an opportunity to look at the contents of Iraq's declaration of weapons of mass destruction. Some 60 pamphlets, brochures and books laid out on a table, very neatly, all A-4 paper, some of the pages titled "A complete declaration," some of them saying, "currently accurate" on them. We are told some 11,807 pages, 1,300 on biological weapons issues, 1,800 on chemical weapons issues, 6,800 on missile issues. The remainder of the papers, we understand, dealing with nuclear issues.
Now, also with that declaration, some 529 megabytes of information contained on 12 CD-Roms. An Iraqi official, the head of Iraq's National Monitoring Directorate here, General Hussam Amin (ph), said that this declaration should be enough to head off any possibility of war. He said the United States should give this declaration a full reading and a full review.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, that Iraqi declaration will be precious cargo tomorrow on a plane that departs from Baghdad and lands in New York City. More than 11,000 pages of materials will be delivered to U.N. headquarters later in the day. Our Michael Okwu joins us now from the U.N.
Michael, so what happens when the document actually gets there?
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the next step is that chief weapons inspector Hans Blix would take it and essentially start siphoning through it, basically looking at what might be deemed to be very sensitive material on it. Blix, acting on the behalf of the Security Council, essentially is going to be editing out those sensitive areas because in his view and in the minds of the other Security Council ambassadors, they do not want to provide a manual for weapons of mass destruction.
He also made the point that if they actually convey this information out to the general public, they may very well be violating international treaties and conventions, so some of this document is going to be under wraps for quite some time. He's going to have an initial assessment, which he will provide to the Security Council sometime in the coming weeks, but we are told certainly weeks and not days -- Carol.
LIN: Well, Michael, what are the larger implications then of actually editing out parts of this document?
OKWU: Well, in very simple language, Carol, it's a very big deal, because basically, what has always been the understanding here is that the Security Council, who, of course, is acting for capitals around the world, that they would be trying to match up information that was garnered, that would be garnered by international intelligence agencies, and they would be basically comparing that information independently arrived at, trying to compare that with information in the document.
In addition to that, U.N. officials are hoping to take information that they already had. There are some one million pages in a dossier in a file, derived from other past declarations that the Iraqis have made, and they would be comparing all this information, to basically try to assess whether or not the Iraqis are being complicit. It makes it very, very difficult to do this if they do not have all sections of the document. So this is an issue, Carol, that they're going to be trying to resolve very, very quickly.
LIN: So I understand that actually the weapons inspections will still continue on the ground in and around Baghdad, but what is the point of those weapons inspections if the real meat of what they should be looking for is actually contained in these documents?
OKWU: Well, actually, this document is going to be very, very helpful for the inspectors on the ground. Even though Hans Blix is going to be keeping this information secret for quite some time while he looks over the sensitive materials, nobody is assuming that he's not going to be sharing this information with the rest of his inspection team.
So because Iraq has to declare everything that they have, all their facilities including what are commonly referred to as dual use facilities, those are civilian or industrial facilities that might be involved in chemical, biological agencies, that sort of thing, that because they are looking at this material, Hans Blix will be able to tell his inspectors where to basically look, because this is now something that the Iraqis have officially stated in their papers.
LIN: All right. Good point. Thank you very much, Michael Okwu, reporting live in New York.
Well, the president of the United States has been pretty circumspect so far about any progress made on the ground or what these documents may or may not actually declare. We're going to go to Suzanne Malveaux, our White House correspondent now at the White House with more on this -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, the White House is really marking this as the beginning of a process. They say sifting through all these documents could take days if not weeks, but the Bush administration says the end game, the goal is to determine whether or not Saddam Hussein will disarm peacefully.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): President Bush says his administration will reserve judgment on the Iraqi declaration until it has thoroughly examined the document. But in a written statement, the White House expressed some skepticism about its truthfulness. It says: "The Iraqi regime today submitted what it claims is a declaration of its programs to develop chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles and other delivery systems.
A currently accurate, full and complete declaration is required." But if Saddam Hussein doesn't deliver, doesn't come clean, Mr. Bush warned in his weekly radio address that the Iraqi leader would be putting his country on the path to war.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States will be making only one judgment, has Saddam Hussein changed his behavior of the last 11 years and decided to cooperate willingly and comply completely, or has he not?
MALVEAUX: Administration officials say if there are any misstatements in the Iraqi documents, the White House will declare that Iraq is in material breach of the U.N. Security Council resolution, but that will not mean immediate military action. Instead, the administration will provide weapons inspectors with some U.S. intelligence, not all, to help them prove Saddam Hussein is hiding his weapons programs.
But the question is whether that will be enough to push U.S. allies to force Saddam Hussein to disarm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the administration has to on the one hand keep the pressure on but also recognize that most other countries are going to want more than the administration's say so as proof that Iraq is concealing its WMD program.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, the administration is fully aware that it's engaged now in a public relations war with Iraq, apparently cooperating with inspectors, beating the deadline to submit the declaration, even apologizing for invading Kuwait. Mr. Bush is warning allies, don't be fooled. Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction -- Carol.
LIN: You know, the thing is, Hans Blix on the ground in Baghdad has complained that if the Bush administration has specific information where weapons of mass destruction are actually being stored, actual proof of it, then why doesn't the Bush administration just tell Hans Blix and the inspectors where to go and prove the case?
MALVEAUX: Well, absolutely. That's a point of debate that is actually taking place within the administration. There are really two schools of thought. Once they find and they do expect to find that Saddam Hussein is not being truthful in this declaration, do they lean more on the inspectors, the weapons inspectors, provide them with much U.S. intelligence, or they hold back and use that U.S. intelligence to make the case for themselves?
There is a security concern that they have. They don't want to release all of this intelligence, but of course, yes, that is a point of contention, it is something that is being discussed within the administration, as well as the United Nations.
LIN: But Suzanne, who is it that they don't trust? Who would be the security breach then? The inspectors themselves? MALVEAUX: I think it's a matter that they don't trust these inspectors, but it's fair to say that the administration, some within the administration, have been concerned that perhaps inspectors have not been tough enough, that perhaps Saddam Hussein will defy them, will fool them and that they'll become complacent if the administration doesn't keep pushing this argument that Saddam Hussein has a history, 11 years of defying the U.N. Security Council, beating these resolutions, that they really want to make sure that they hold them to that, and the concern is that, no, none of these allies want to go to war. The administration doesn't want to go to war either, but that because they don't want to go to war, they may be a little bit lenient on Saddam Hussein in terms of getting those inspections done.
LIN: All right, thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, reporting live at the White House.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
