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CNN Live Today

Interview With Lawrence Eagleburger

Aired December 09, 2002 - 10:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's get a view of the Iraq weapons hunt from another perspective. Lawrence Eagleburger was Secretary of State in the administration of the first President Bush. In August, he joined former National Security Adviser General Brent Scowcroft in opposing a U.S. attack on Iraq.
And Lawrence Eagleburger, the former Secretary of State, joins us now live.

We thank you for time -- giving us some time again this morning, sir. Good to see you again.

First of all, let me ask you about this document dump that we've just seen that was -- that is now be -- will be discussed now at the U.N. Along with those -- the delivery of those documents came some very interesting comments by General Amir Alsadi (ph). And I'm sure you've seen some of these comments. I'd like to get your reaction to something that he said about -- when he was asked about how close Iraq actually did come to making a nuclear bomb, and he said that it's now up to the IAEA to determine how close they got. Did that strike you as odd at all?

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: No, I think that's the way the Iraqis will play it. I think, frankly, they probably were pretty close at one point. They may still be. In fact, I think they're probably quite close now, but it didn't strike me particularly one way or the other. I think the fact of the matter is we've got 12,000 pages to struggle through. And when we're through with that, we still won't know what they have, I'm afraid.

HARRIS: But the general also said that in those documents may potentially be some embarrassing information on countries and companies that have been helping Iraq all along, particularly perhaps in the last four years as there have been no inspections there on the ground. What do you expect to happen on that level?

EAGLEBURGER: Well it may well be that we're going to find that some of our erstwhile allies in Europe, for example, have been selling them things. I can't be sure, but there may well be some embarrassing information on people who have found the dollar more important than security and some of them may be close allies of ours.

HARRIS: Would you -- you wouldn't be surprised by that?

EAGLEBURGER: No, I wouldn't be.

HARRIS: OK. Now Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, also said something over the weekend, something we've actually heard quite often in the last couple of days of last week, about those countries that have information about what is going on in Iraq should provide that information to those inspectors. And it seems as though that's a comment that was directed here at the U.S.

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I suspect it may well be. I think what he's -- what he believes, and he may be correct, I don't know, that we have some intelligence information that leads us to know some things about what's going on in Iraq that we haven't revealed to others. And I'm afraid I think he's, to some degree, wrong -- substantially wrong in this regard.

I'd like us to have our information available to ourselves so that we can check to see whether, in fact, the Iraqis are telling us the truth or not. And if you give this to the inspectors, except perhaps as leads for them to -- where they might go to inspect, I think we're going to find that it quickly becomes of not much use to us. I think it's a good check on what the Iraqis tell us.

HARRIS: Do you -- what do you think of the information that's going to be uncovered in what was delivered over the weekend? Do you think it'll be anything for the U.N. and for the U.S. to use there?

EAGLEBURGER: There may well be some things as, for example, who has been supplying Iraq with equipment that can be used to build a bomb, for example. There may also be some hints that come from where they try to describe the weapons of mass destruction that they purportedly did away with it. That may lead us in some directions in terms of trying to get some sense, at least, of what they had and what they've done with it or what they haven't done with it, by the way. I think we may get something out of that 12,000 pages. But I come back to saying, as I always have, the fundamental question is what the inspectors are going to find.

HARRIS: Well, in the view of others, the most effective thing that could be done here is to get some defectors to come forth and to speak...

EAGLEBURGER: I think that's right.

HARRIS: ... and to speak out. And I know a lot of people, and I've actually heard you make comments about this as well, believing that that could be the key element here. However, it doesn't seem as though the weapons inspectors want to be put into position where they actually become anything like a witness protection program. And what do you think is likely to happen with that?

EAGLEBURGER: I think, well, it's going to be, again, very tough. But if there are ways in which the United States, if it can't be the inspectors, but if there are ways in which we can persuade Iraqis to leave the country and where their families are not in danger, I think if we can get some Iraqis out of the country, there are lots of things they may be prepared to tell us. Now getting them out of the country is going to be an extremely difficult thing to do. And there again, the attitude of the inspectors is going to be very, very critical here. And if we see too much of a desire to be neutral rather than to try to find every way they can to find out exactly what Iraq has, then the inspectors are, in my judgment, not doing their job. So I think -- I think they ought to be in the position of trying to get people to leave the country and to talk.

HARRIS: Well, thank you for coming and talking with us and helping us do our job today.

EAGLEBURGER: Thank you.

HARRIS: Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, always a pleasure to have you with us.

EAGLEBURGER: Good to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 9, 2002 - 10:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's get a view of the Iraq weapons hunt from another perspective. Lawrence Eagleburger was Secretary of State in the administration of the first President Bush. In August, he joined former National Security Adviser General Brent Scowcroft in opposing a U.S. attack on Iraq.
And Lawrence Eagleburger, the former Secretary of State, joins us now live.

We thank you for time -- giving us some time again this morning, sir. Good to see you again.

First of all, let me ask you about this document dump that we've just seen that was -- that is now be -- will be discussed now at the U.N. Along with those -- the delivery of those documents came some very interesting comments by General Amir Alsadi (ph). And I'm sure you've seen some of these comments. I'd like to get your reaction to something that he said about -- when he was asked about how close Iraq actually did come to making a nuclear bomb, and he said that it's now up to the IAEA to determine how close they got. Did that strike you as odd at all?

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: No, I think that's the way the Iraqis will play it. I think, frankly, they probably were pretty close at one point. They may still be. In fact, I think they're probably quite close now, but it didn't strike me particularly one way or the other. I think the fact of the matter is we've got 12,000 pages to struggle through. And when we're through with that, we still won't know what they have, I'm afraid.

HARRIS: But the general also said that in those documents may potentially be some embarrassing information on countries and companies that have been helping Iraq all along, particularly perhaps in the last four years as there have been no inspections there on the ground. What do you expect to happen on that level?

EAGLEBURGER: Well it may well be that we're going to find that some of our erstwhile allies in Europe, for example, have been selling them things. I can't be sure, but there may well be some embarrassing information on people who have found the dollar more important than security and some of them may be close allies of ours.

HARRIS: Would you -- you wouldn't be surprised by that?

EAGLEBURGER: No, I wouldn't be.

HARRIS: OK. Now Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, also said something over the weekend, something we've actually heard quite often in the last couple of days of last week, about those countries that have information about what is going on in Iraq should provide that information to those inspectors. And it seems as though that's a comment that was directed here at the U.S.

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I suspect it may well be. I think what he's -- what he believes, and he may be correct, I don't know, that we have some intelligence information that leads us to know some things about what's going on in Iraq that we haven't revealed to others. And I'm afraid I think he's, to some degree, wrong -- substantially wrong in this regard.

I'd like us to have our information available to ourselves so that we can check to see whether, in fact, the Iraqis are telling us the truth or not. And if you give this to the inspectors, except perhaps as leads for them to -- where they might go to inspect, I think we're going to find that it quickly becomes of not much use to us. I think it's a good check on what the Iraqis tell us.

HARRIS: Do you -- what do you think of the information that's going to be uncovered in what was delivered over the weekend? Do you think it'll be anything for the U.N. and for the U.S. to use there?

EAGLEBURGER: There may well be some things as, for example, who has been supplying Iraq with equipment that can be used to build a bomb, for example. There may also be some hints that come from where they try to describe the weapons of mass destruction that they purportedly did away with it. That may lead us in some directions in terms of trying to get some sense, at least, of what they had and what they've done with it or what they haven't done with it, by the way. I think we may get something out of that 12,000 pages. But I come back to saying, as I always have, the fundamental question is what the inspectors are going to find.

HARRIS: Well, in the view of others, the most effective thing that could be done here is to get some defectors to come forth and to speak...

EAGLEBURGER: I think that's right.

HARRIS: ... and to speak out. And I know a lot of people, and I've actually heard you make comments about this as well, believing that that could be the key element here. However, it doesn't seem as though the weapons inspectors want to be put into position where they actually become anything like a witness protection program. And what do you think is likely to happen with that?

EAGLEBURGER: I think, well, it's going to be, again, very tough. But if there are ways in which the United States, if it can't be the inspectors, but if there are ways in which we can persuade Iraqis to leave the country and where their families are not in danger, I think if we can get some Iraqis out of the country, there are lots of things they may be prepared to tell us. Now getting them out of the country is going to be an extremely difficult thing to do. And there again, the attitude of the inspectors is going to be very, very critical here. And if we see too much of a desire to be neutral rather than to try to find every way they can to find out exactly what Iraq has, then the inspectors are, in my judgment, not doing their job. So I think -- I think they ought to be in the position of trying to get people to leave the country and to talk.

HARRIS: Well, thank you for coming and talking with us and helping us do our job today.

EAGLEBURGER: Thank you.

HARRIS: Former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, always a pleasure to have you with us.

EAGLEBURGER: Good to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com