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Report Suggests Iraq May Have Supplied V.X. Nerve Agent to Terror Group
Aired December 12, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now the report suggesting that Iraq may have supplied V.X. nerve agent to a terror group affiliated with al Qaeda. The story first appeared in today's "Washington Post."
Let's check in with John King, who has been looking into the story, as well.
He joins us from the White House north lawn -- good morning, John.
What does the White House make of this?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.
Obviously very scary stuff if true. Senior administration officials do confirm to CNN that U.S. intelligence agencies have received information about the possibility that Iraq turned over to Islamic fundamentalists affiliated with al Qaeda the deadly V.X. nerve agent. It can kill almost instantly. It is one of the biological and chemical weapons the United States has long accused Iraq of having in its arsenal.
This tip is uncorroborated. U.S. officials stress that. It is a report to U.S. intelligence agencies that within the past two months someone in Iraq has turned over to Islamic fundamentalists associated with al Qaeda some of the deadly V.X. nerve agent. U.S. officials stressing to us this information is uncorroborated. They cannot confirm that this information is true.
One sign that there is a great deal of skepticism about whether it might be true is that we have seen no activity here in the United States to raise the threat level of a possible terrorist attack. Certainly if the administration believed there was conclusive evidence that al Qaeda had V.X. and could use it to attack the United States, you would see the terrorist threat level go up here at home. Also, administration officials say if they could say this conclusively, you certainly would have the president and other senior administration officials making the case, if they had any proof, of a definitive link between Iraq and al Qaeda.
Still, U.S. officials say it is a tip, a bit of information they are aggressively trying to pursue because of the obvious consequences if it is true. U.S. officials, though, emphasizing to us this is not corroborated information, but obviously they want to find out more if they can -- Paula. ZAHN: Well, John, while it might not be corroborated, buried in that "Washington Post" piece is something I think even scarier than the prospect of somebody having this gas, and that is apparently a CIA message or a message being analyzed by the CIA that would suggest that the United States might face a chemical attack in a major urban subway station.
What's that all about? And is anybody knocking that one down?
KING: This has been the subject of great speculation almost since the day after the September 11, 2001 attacks. The CIA director, George Tenet, in a speech here in Washington just last night, warned that al Qaeda is trying to attack again, that al Qaeda would use any and all means at its disposal to attack the United States again. This is the gray area of intelligence, if you will. Some analysts see information and say that it hints to them that there is an imminent threat. Others see the information and believe it is just chatter in the system, threatening talk in the system.
That is one of the great dilemmas the administration has faced since September 11. U.S. officials say they have no credible information of any specific targeting of anything here in the United States right now, no corroboration of this tip, this piece of information that al Qaeda might have obtained V.X. nerve agent. But they say they have no choice but to pursue every one of these leads just in case.
ZAHN: John, we've got just about 10 seconds left. If this ends up being corroborated, does this give the Bush administration the material breach it would need to ask for some kind of military action?
KING: If it could be corroborated, certainly, yes. But there is a debate even within the administration as to whether there is any proof of any link between Iraq and al Qaeda.
ZAHN: John King, thanks so much.
Appreciate it.
Now back to Iraq, where Baghdad denies it even has weapons of mass destruction. But inspectors continue their investigations and at an accelerated pace.
Let's check in with Nic Robertson, who's standing by in Baghdad as inspectors deploy to five different sites today -- good morning, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Well, it's a few hours before we'll get an accurate read from the U.N. of exactly where their teams went to. Since they've stepped up their activities, a little difficult to keep track of them through the day. We tend to wait for the U.N. briefing to get an exact readout at the end of the day.
But what we've seen so far, one team going to a pharmaceutical company on the east side of Baghdad; another team going to a former nuclear research facility, al-Nida (ph), south of Baghdad; another team going even further south to a former missile testing facility there. Of course, Iraq's missiles limited to a range of 90 miles. The inspectors following up possibly on information, the British dossier that suggests that Iraq on some new test beds that it developed out in the open, picked up through satellite photographs, that these were, Iraq was testing longer range missiles.
Interesting, we're getting more details from the U.N. in these daily briefings now, declarative statements, if you will, about some sites, albeit very short and brief, talking about a uranium ore mine visited yesterday by a team, saying that the inspectors confirmed that it was no longer producing uranium ore. That's kind of new information. We have not been getting that kind of level of information from the inspectors. Talking about another site visited yesterday, a former uranium enrichment site, saying that it was no longer involved in enriching uranium and there was no indications Iraq was planning to pursue that type of work at that site.
So the U.N. now giving briefings late in the day, but giving us a little more declarative information about what the teams are actually coming up with, Paula.
ZAHN: Nic, before we let you go, any official reaction on the Iraqis' part to this V.X. nerve gas story that broke in the "Washington Post" this morning?
ROBERTSON: Nothing new. Iraq's line, it has no weapons of mass destruction. Just over the weekend, their top scientist, the scientific adviser to President Saddam Hussein said that Iraq had accounted for all those V.X. programs in the past. The U.N. says 1.7 tons of the deadly nerve agent still outstanding. But according to this Iraqi official just a few days ago they don't have it, they've declared it all, they've dealt with it all, they don't have weapons of mass destruction, Paula.
That's what they continue to say from here.
ZAHN: Nic Robertson reporting from Baghdad this morning.
Thanks so much.
And as inspections intensify, critical questions emerge on two different fronts. Is there a war among opposition leaders in Iraq, as they try to decide who might lead Iraq post-Saddam Hussein? And can the U.N. force Iraqi scientists to talk?
Judith Yaphe is an expert on Iraq and a scholar at the National Defense University.
She joins us from Washington this morning.
Good to see you.
Welcome back, Judith. JUDITH YAPHE, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having me and thank you for your performance last Friday night at the Bush dinner.
ZAHN: Oh, that's right. I did an award when former President Bush was honored for being an American patriot, which also, I guess, helped raise some funds for your school.
Back to the issue of this V.X. nerve gas story. You heard John King's reporting, that it's not yet corroborated. But at least Bush administration officials saying they have confirmed part of this report. What does that suggest to you?
YAPHE: I'm not sure which part of the report they've confirmed. One has to look very carefully. It is interesting to me that, if true, this would be very important information, the first time we would have had serious evidence of not only Iraqi links to al Qaeda, which I have skepticism about, but it would also be very interesting in terms of their exporting this for use abroad. But we don't have confirmation.
I worked three years in counter-terrorism. You don't get best sources always. You rarely get smoking gun evidence.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, Judith, if it is ultimately confirmed that Iraq did make this transfer of this chemical weapon, how would that affect the war on terror?
YAPHE: Well, how it affects the war on terror I'm less certain than how it'll affect our campaign against Iraq. I'm more certain that it will have an effect there. It certainly gives us, if not causus belli, it certainly gives us more justification for our position on Iraq's use and willing to use, including willing to export abroad for use. But we're not quite the yet.
The war on terrorism, it comes at it from a different point of view. And I do believe that al Qaeda terrorists would like to get this kind of material for their use. But where they get it from, there we need evidence on the hows and whys. It's critical to establish a trail, a reliable trail of information.
ZAHN: I want to quickly move you to another issue that's gaining a lot of attention right now, and that's the issue of the Iraqi opposition leaders meeting in Iran in advance of a key meeting in London. What is it you think they're cooking up?
YAPHE: Well, it may be that they're cooking -- trying to cook up something very tasteful. This meeting has been delayed at least twice because the different opposition factions couldn't agree with each other. They were fighting on everything from how many of each would be represented to what the end game would be that they were looking to establish there, would it be a government in exile or broader representation, looking towards a day when they would move into Iraq?
It is important, though, that you had three key leaders present, Ahmed Shalabi of the Iraqi National Congress, which is probably the best known of the groups; the Kurdish faction led by Massoud Barzani, which is key; and the Iranian-backed Shia organization of Iraqi exiles, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. These groups have not, these leaders have not gotten together, in my memory, for a long time.
So it's highly significant that they did. They met in Iran, which shows a high degree of acquiescence to especially the group that they're hosting entering into some kind of effort which would be backed by the United States. I think these are very important indicators.
But these three factions and their leaders have to show that they can play well together, or if not well, at least they can play together, so that there's a basis for moving ahead with support from the United States and other governments that are interested in supporting the opposition to Saddam Hussein.
ZAHN: Judith Yaphe, as always, great to have your perspective and continued good luck with the very important work your school does as you turn out some of our most esteemed military leaders in this country.
YAPHE: Thank you. Thank you very much, Paula.
ZAHN: Appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Terror Group>
Aired December 12, 2002 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now the report suggesting that Iraq may have supplied V.X. nerve agent to a terror group affiliated with al Qaeda. The story first appeared in today's "Washington Post."
Let's check in with John King, who has been looking into the story, as well.
He joins us from the White House north lawn -- good morning, John.
What does the White House make of this?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.
Obviously very scary stuff if true. Senior administration officials do confirm to CNN that U.S. intelligence agencies have received information about the possibility that Iraq turned over to Islamic fundamentalists affiliated with al Qaeda the deadly V.X. nerve agent. It can kill almost instantly. It is one of the biological and chemical weapons the United States has long accused Iraq of having in its arsenal.
This tip is uncorroborated. U.S. officials stress that. It is a report to U.S. intelligence agencies that within the past two months someone in Iraq has turned over to Islamic fundamentalists associated with al Qaeda some of the deadly V.X. nerve agent. U.S. officials stressing to us this information is uncorroborated. They cannot confirm that this information is true.
One sign that there is a great deal of skepticism about whether it might be true is that we have seen no activity here in the United States to raise the threat level of a possible terrorist attack. Certainly if the administration believed there was conclusive evidence that al Qaeda had V.X. and could use it to attack the United States, you would see the terrorist threat level go up here at home. Also, administration officials say if they could say this conclusively, you certainly would have the president and other senior administration officials making the case, if they had any proof, of a definitive link between Iraq and al Qaeda.
Still, U.S. officials say it is a tip, a bit of information they are aggressively trying to pursue because of the obvious consequences if it is true. U.S. officials, though, emphasizing to us this is not corroborated information, but obviously they want to find out more if they can -- Paula. ZAHN: Well, John, while it might not be corroborated, buried in that "Washington Post" piece is something I think even scarier than the prospect of somebody having this gas, and that is apparently a CIA message or a message being analyzed by the CIA that would suggest that the United States might face a chemical attack in a major urban subway station.
What's that all about? And is anybody knocking that one down?
KING: This has been the subject of great speculation almost since the day after the September 11, 2001 attacks. The CIA director, George Tenet, in a speech here in Washington just last night, warned that al Qaeda is trying to attack again, that al Qaeda would use any and all means at its disposal to attack the United States again. This is the gray area of intelligence, if you will. Some analysts see information and say that it hints to them that there is an imminent threat. Others see the information and believe it is just chatter in the system, threatening talk in the system.
That is one of the great dilemmas the administration has faced since September 11. U.S. officials say they have no credible information of any specific targeting of anything here in the United States right now, no corroboration of this tip, this piece of information that al Qaeda might have obtained V.X. nerve agent. But they say they have no choice but to pursue every one of these leads just in case.
ZAHN: John, we've got just about 10 seconds left. If this ends up being corroborated, does this give the Bush administration the material breach it would need to ask for some kind of military action?
KING: If it could be corroborated, certainly, yes. But there is a debate even within the administration as to whether there is any proof of any link between Iraq and al Qaeda.
ZAHN: John King, thanks so much.
Appreciate it.
Now back to Iraq, where Baghdad denies it even has weapons of mass destruction. But inspectors continue their investigations and at an accelerated pace.
Let's check in with Nic Robertson, who's standing by in Baghdad as inspectors deploy to five different sites today -- good morning, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
Well, it's a few hours before we'll get an accurate read from the U.N. of exactly where their teams went to. Since they've stepped up their activities, a little difficult to keep track of them through the day. We tend to wait for the U.N. briefing to get an exact readout at the end of the day.
But what we've seen so far, one team going to a pharmaceutical company on the east side of Baghdad; another team going to a former nuclear research facility, al-Nida (ph), south of Baghdad; another team going even further south to a former missile testing facility there. Of course, Iraq's missiles limited to a range of 90 miles. The inspectors following up possibly on information, the British dossier that suggests that Iraq on some new test beds that it developed out in the open, picked up through satellite photographs, that these were, Iraq was testing longer range missiles.
Interesting, we're getting more details from the U.N. in these daily briefings now, declarative statements, if you will, about some sites, albeit very short and brief, talking about a uranium ore mine visited yesterday by a team, saying that the inspectors confirmed that it was no longer producing uranium ore. That's kind of new information. We have not been getting that kind of level of information from the inspectors. Talking about another site visited yesterday, a former uranium enrichment site, saying that it was no longer involved in enriching uranium and there was no indications Iraq was planning to pursue that type of work at that site.
So the U.N. now giving briefings late in the day, but giving us a little more declarative information about what the teams are actually coming up with, Paula.
ZAHN: Nic, before we let you go, any official reaction on the Iraqis' part to this V.X. nerve gas story that broke in the "Washington Post" this morning?
ROBERTSON: Nothing new. Iraq's line, it has no weapons of mass destruction. Just over the weekend, their top scientist, the scientific adviser to President Saddam Hussein said that Iraq had accounted for all those V.X. programs in the past. The U.N. says 1.7 tons of the deadly nerve agent still outstanding. But according to this Iraqi official just a few days ago they don't have it, they've declared it all, they've dealt with it all, they don't have weapons of mass destruction, Paula.
That's what they continue to say from here.
ZAHN: Nic Robertson reporting from Baghdad this morning.
Thanks so much.
And as inspections intensify, critical questions emerge on two different fronts. Is there a war among opposition leaders in Iraq, as they try to decide who might lead Iraq post-Saddam Hussein? And can the U.N. force Iraqi scientists to talk?
Judith Yaphe is an expert on Iraq and a scholar at the National Defense University.
She joins us from Washington this morning.
Good to see you.
Welcome back, Judith. JUDITH YAPHE, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having me and thank you for your performance last Friday night at the Bush dinner.
ZAHN: Oh, that's right. I did an award when former President Bush was honored for being an American patriot, which also, I guess, helped raise some funds for your school.
Back to the issue of this V.X. nerve gas story. You heard John King's reporting, that it's not yet corroborated. But at least Bush administration officials saying they have confirmed part of this report. What does that suggest to you?
YAPHE: I'm not sure which part of the report they've confirmed. One has to look very carefully. It is interesting to me that, if true, this would be very important information, the first time we would have had serious evidence of not only Iraqi links to al Qaeda, which I have skepticism about, but it would also be very interesting in terms of their exporting this for use abroad. But we don't have confirmation.
I worked three years in counter-terrorism. You don't get best sources always. You rarely get smoking gun evidence.
ZAHN: Let me ask you this, Judith, if it is ultimately confirmed that Iraq did make this transfer of this chemical weapon, how would that affect the war on terror?
YAPHE: Well, how it affects the war on terror I'm less certain than how it'll affect our campaign against Iraq. I'm more certain that it will have an effect there. It certainly gives us, if not causus belli, it certainly gives us more justification for our position on Iraq's use and willing to use, including willing to export abroad for use. But we're not quite the yet.
The war on terrorism, it comes at it from a different point of view. And I do believe that al Qaeda terrorists would like to get this kind of material for their use. But where they get it from, there we need evidence on the hows and whys. It's critical to establish a trail, a reliable trail of information.
ZAHN: I want to quickly move you to another issue that's gaining a lot of attention right now, and that's the issue of the Iraqi opposition leaders meeting in Iran in advance of a key meeting in London. What is it you think they're cooking up?
YAPHE: Well, it may be that they're cooking -- trying to cook up something very tasteful. This meeting has been delayed at least twice because the different opposition factions couldn't agree with each other. They were fighting on everything from how many of each would be represented to what the end game would be that they were looking to establish there, would it be a government in exile or broader representation, looking towards a day when they would move into Iraq?
It is important, though, that you had three key leaders present, Ahmed Shalabi of the Iraqi National Congress, which is probably the best known of the groups; the Kurdish faction led by Massoud Barzani, which is key; and the Iranian-backed Shia organization of Iraqi exiles, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. These groups have not, these leaders have not gotten together, in my memory, for a long time.
So it's highly significant that they did. They met in Iran, which shows a high degree of acquiescence to especially the group that they're hosting entering into some kind of effort which would be backed by the United States. I think these are very important indicators.
But these three factions and their leaders have to show that they can play well together, or if not well, at least they can play together, so that there's a basis for moving ahead with support from the United States and other governments that are interested in supporting the opposition to Saddam Hussein.
ZAHN: Judith Yaphe, as always, great to have your perspective and continued good luck with the very important work your school does as you turn out some of our most esteemed military leaders in this country.
YAPHE: Thank you. Thank you very much, Paula.
ZAHN: Appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Terror Group>
