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American Morning
Trent Lott Fighting to Keep Job as Senate's Top Republican
Aired December 17, 2002 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to shift our attention quickly back to D.C. right now. Trent Lott, you know, fighting to keep his job as the Senate's top Republican. He's been defending his reputation five times publicly since making remarks about a week and a half ago that appeared to support the 1948 segregationist campaign of Senator Strom Thurmond. Lott is trying to line up support ahead of a Republican Conference vote now set for the sixth of January, right when the law makers come back to D.C.
Kathleen Koch in Washington today to talk more about this -- good morning.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
And who we're dealing with here is a very savvy politician. This is a man who has been on Capitol Hill for 30 years. So while he has a lot of friends here, he's also made a few enemies. So you can bet in the days and weeks to come he is going to be doing some serious lobbying, going to really be pulling out all the stops and calling in all those IOUs that might be out there.
But what we saw last night was this veteran politician trying desperately to keep his head above water. He said on BET that he had "made a terrible mistake," "used horrible words."
Senator Lott admitted that he had been part of what he called "an immoral leadership in the South" that held what he called "wrong and wicked positions on race." And for some, surprisingly, it was enough. Congressman John Lewis of Georgia, who is a very well respected veteran of the civil rights movement, has come out in support of Senator Lott, has basically thrown him a much needed lifeline.
Now, granted, Senator Lott did seek out that life line. He had been pursuing Congressman Lewis since Friday. Lewis says it is time to give Trent Lott a chance, saying, "We all make mistakes. We all make blunders. It's very much in keeping with the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence to forgive and move on."
But again, many in the civil rights community, in the African- American community are not ready to forgive and forget. The Congressional Black Caucus continues to call for a censure of Senator Lott, and many of them believed, indeed, that his remarks last night were disingenuous and that his voting rights record, his voting record speaks much louder than his words.
They pointed to comments such as last night when he said he is now for affirmative action and would now vote for it, saying that he now supported the idea of a Martin Luther King holiday and would support that in a vote. And they said in many ways to them this sounded like the eleventh hour, conversion, Bill, of a politician trying desperately to save himself -- back to you.
HEMMER: Kathleen, thanks.
Kathleen Koch on Capitol Hill this morning -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Bill.
Senator Lott was on Black Entertainment Television last night and made his fifth apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRENT LOTT (R-MI), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The important thing is to recognize the hurt that I caused and ask for forgiveness and find a way to turn this into a positive thing and try to make amends for what I've said and for what others have said and done over the years. I'm looking for this to be not only an opportunity for redemption, but to do something about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Ed Gordon conducted the interview on BET yesterday and he joins us this morning to talk more about it.
Good to see you.
ED GORDON, BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION: Good to see you, Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by. I know you've had a busy couple of days.
GORDON: Indeed.
ZAHN: You might have heard what Kathleen Koch just reported, some folks who watched the interview viewed it as sort of the eleventh hour conversion of a guy trying to save his hide. Is that the way you saw the exercise?
GORDON: Well, I mean clearly, as I said to him during the interview, he would not have been with me had it not been for, as he calls it, the verbal faux pas. And I think there is some political expediency.
Now, whether this is the metamorphosis for Trent Lott or not, I don't know. Only he can tell that and only time will tell.
ZAHN: Did you think he was sincere?
GORDON: I think that there were parts of the interview that I think he was sincere. I think he's sincere about growing up in the time and the area and environment he grew up in. I don't know if it's for me as a journalist to really dictate whether he was sincere about the other things. I think that it's going to be hard to change those who see him as the devil and put rings on him, by virtue of what he said last night.
ZAHN: Let's listen to a little bit more of what he had to say. And we have a couple sections of the interview and here is a small part now where he's trying to talk about how he's reconciling the words that he said with, at Strom Thurmond's birthday celebration with his record.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOTT: I'm now trying to find a way to deal with the understandable hurt that I have caused. You can, you know, say it was innocent, but it was insensitive at the very least and repugnant, frankly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Now, the use of the word repugnant, I don't think that's the first time we've heard that. Did that seem well rehearsed?
GORDON: Well, I think that clearly you and I both know when you enter an interview like this you're going to practice. You're going to sit with your staff and they're going to assume certain questions will be asked. And he's a consummate politician. I think he was rehearsed. I think some of the questions may have surprised him a bit. There were a couple that I don't think he had a clear cut answer to. It didn't seem rehearsed. He seemed to stumble through some of the answers.
And whether the contrition that we see is honest or not, that's hard, that's to hard to tell, Paula.
ZAHN: And where do you think you caught him off guard? Because we all know how tough it is to prepare for interviews like this.
GORDON: Sure. Sure.
ZAHN: I mean it really is very much a collaborative effort on both sides.
GORDON: Well, I'll tell you where he caught most people off guard, and I don't know that I caught him as much as he caught most people when he talked about his support of affirmative action and clearly his voting record did not belie any support to, of affirmative action. I think he was surprised at the comeback when he talked about not knowing about Martin Luther King until the '60s and he started to learn him. And I said certainly you knew who Martin Luther King was by 1990 when you decided not to vote for the King holiday.
So I think there were moments like that and I think you have to read between the lines and determine whether or not you are going to believe whether this is an honest conversion. ZAHN: That's where it seems to me people are most skeptical, when he acknowledged in his interview with you, hey, look, my actions don't necessarily reflect my voting record.
GORDON: And...
ZAHN: What did that contradiction mean to you?
GORDON: Well, yes, it was huge. Well, I, as you may remember, I followed yup with saying but as a politician, really, isn't your voting record your action, particularly as a public figure? Not as a personal citizen, but as a public figure, those are your actions. So it's hard to juxtaposes the two and figure out whether they can, indeed, walk side by side.
ZAHN: At the very beginning of our conversation, you reflected on a part of the conversation where Trent Lott talked about the climate in which he grew up in, and we're going to play that small part of the interview right now.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LOTT: There has been immoral leadership in my part of the country for a long time. Progress has been made.
GORDON: Were you a part of that?
LOTT: Yes. I can't deny that. And I, you know, that, I, I believe that I have changed and that I'm trying to do a better job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Do you give him any credit for acknowledging that and acknowledging the work that needs to be done?
GORDON: Well, you know, the question is -- and I asked him later on why the acknowledgement now, you know? Did this all come in part of the firestorm you find yourself in in the last two weeks? Did you not know that you were part of that a month ago, a year ago, five years ago? And why the acknowledgement now?
And I don't know that he answered that to the, in fair-minded people's minds to the satisfaction to what they were hoping to hear.
ZAHN: Do you think he can survive this? And by that I mean not necessarily a Senate job, but his leader as the head of the Republican Party and head of the Senate?
GORDON: Well, I asked him whether or not he believed he could survive it. As of yesterday, he said he thought he could. As you know, he suggested that he did not think it appropriate for the president to ask him to step down. I asked him whether when his colleagues convene on January 6th whether he's going to, indeed, be the majority leader at that point. He believes so. Now, whether that's blind faith, denial or just reading tea leaves with a lot of hope, I don't know. I think as the days go on, it's much, much harder for him to hang on.
ZAHN: Well, I guess his fate may be decided by his fellow Senate colleagues...
GORDON: Indeed.
ZAHN: ... as of January 6th when they convene and try to figure out who they want to lead the party.
Ed Gordon, we really appreciate your dropping by.
GORDON: Paula, thank you so much.
ZAHN: I know you've traveled a lot of miles over the last couple of days.
GORDON: My pleasure.
ZAHN: Thanks for spending a little time with us this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Republican>
Aired December 17, 2002 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to shift our attention quickly back to D.C. right now. Trent Lott, you know, fighting to keep his job as the Senate's top Republican. He's been defending his reputation five times publicly since making remarks about a week and a half ago that appeared to support the 1948 segregationist campaign of Senator Strom Thurmond. Lott is trying to line up support ahead of a Republican Conference vote now set for the sixth of January, right when the law makers come back to D.C.
Kathleen Koch in Washington today to talk more about this -- good morning.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
And who we're dealing with here is a very savvy politician. This is a man who has been on Capitol Hill for 30 years. So while he has a lot of friends here, he's also made a few enemies. So you can bet in the days and weeks to come he is going to be doing some serious lobbying, going to really be pulling out all the stops and calling in all those IOUs that might be out there.
But what we saw last night was this veteran politician trying desperately to keep his head above water. He said on BET that he had "made a terrible mistake," "used horrible words."
Senator Lott admitted that he had been part of what he called "an immoral leadership in the South" that held what he called "wrong and wicked positions on race." And for some, surprisingly, it was enough. Congressman John Lewis of Georgia, who is a very well respected veteran of the civil rights movement, has come out in support of Senator Lott, has basically thrown him a much needed lifeline.
Now, granted, Senator Lott did seek out that life line. He had been pursuing Congressman Lewis since Friday. Lewis says it is time to give Trent Lott a chance, saying, "We all make mistakes. We all make blunders. It's very much in keeping with the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence to forgive and move on."
But again, many in the civil rights community, in the African- American community are not ready to forgive and forget. The Congressional Black Caucus continues to call for a censure of Senator Lott, and many of them believed, indeed, that his remarks last night were disingenuous and that his voting rights record, his voting record speaks much louder than his words.
They pointed to comments such as last night when he said he is now for affirmative action and would now vote for it, saying that he now supported the idea of a Martin Luther King holiday and would support that in a vote. And they said in many ways to them this sounded like the eleventh hour, conversion, Bill, of a politician trying desperately to save himself -- back to you.
HEMMER: Kathleen, thanks.
Kathleen Koch on Capitol Hill this morning -- Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Bill.
Senator Lott was on Black Entertainment Television last night and made his fifth apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRENT LOTT (R-MI), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The important thing is to recognize the hurt that I caused and ask for forgiveness and find a way to turn this into a positive thing and try to make amends for what I've said and for what others have said and done over the years. I'm looking for this to be not only an opportunity for redemption, but to do something about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And Ed Gordon conducted the interview on BET yesterday and he joins us this morning to talk more about it.
Good to see you.
ED GORDON, BLACK ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION: Good to see you, Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by. I know you've had a busy couple of days.
GORDON: Indeed.
ZAHN: You might have heard what Kathleen Koch just reported, some folks who watched the interview viewed it as sort of the eleventh hour conversion of a guy trying to save his hide. Is that the way you saw the exercise?
GORDON: Well, I mean clearly, as I said to him during the interview, he would not have been with me had it not been for, as he calls it, the verbal faux pas. And I think there is some political expediency.
Now, whether this is the metamorphosis for Trent Lott or not, I don't know. Only he can tell that and only time will tell.
ZAHN: Did you think he was sincere?
GORDON: I think that there were parts of the interview that I think he was sincere. I think he's sincere about growing up in the time and the area and environment he grew up in. I don't know if it's for me as a journalist to really dictate whether he was sincere about the other things. I think that it's going to be hard to change those who see him as the devil and put rings on him, by virtue of what he said last night.
ZAHN: Let's listen to a little bit more of what he had to say. And we have a couple sections of the interview and here is a small part now where he's trying to talk about how he's reconciling the words that he said with, at Strom Thurmond's birthday celebration with his record.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOTT: I'm now trying to find a way to deal with the understandable hurt that I have caused. You can, you know, say it was innocent, but it was insensitive at the very least and repugnant, frankly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Now, the use of the word repugnant, I don't think that's the first time we've heard that. Did that seem well rehearsed?
GORDON: Well, I think that clearly you and I both know when you enter an interview like this you're going to practice. You're going to sit with your staff and they're going to assume certain questions will be asked. And he's a consummate politician. I think he was rehearsed. I think some of the questions may have surprised him a bit. There were a couple that I don't think he had a clear cut answer to. It didn't seem rehearsed. He seemed to stumble through some of the answers.
And whether the contrition that we see is honest or not, that's hard, that's to hard to tell, Paula.
ZAHN: And where do you think you caught him off guard? Because we all know how tough it is to prepare for interviews like this.
GORDON: Sure. Sure.
ZAHN: I mean it really is very much a collaborative effort on both sides.
GORDON: Well, I'll tell you where he caught most people off guard, and I don't know that I caught him as much as he caught most people when he talked about his support of affirmative action and clearly his voting record did not belie any support to, of affirmative action. I think he was surprised at the comeback when he talked about not knowing about Martin Luther King until the '60s and he started to learn him. And I said certainly you knew who Martin Luther King was by 1990 when you decided not to vote for the King holiday.
So I think there were moments like that and I think you have to read between the lines and determine whether or not you are going to believe whether this is an honest conversion. ZAHN: That's where it seems to me people are most skeptical, when he acknowledged in his interview with you, hey, look, my actions don't necessarily reflect my voting record.
GORDON: And...
ZAHN: What did that contradiction mean to you?
GORDON: Well, yes, it was huge. Well, I, as you may remember, I followed yup with saying but as a politician, really, isn't your voting record your action, particularly as a public figure? Not as a personal citizen, but as a public figure, those are your actions. So it's hard to juxtaposes the two and figure out whether they can, indeed, walk side by side.
ZAHN: At the very beginning of our conversation, you reflected on a part of the conversation where Trent Lott talked about the climate in which he grew up in, and we're going to play that small part of the interview right now.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LOTT: There has been immoral leadership in my part of the country for a long time. Progress has been made.
GORDON: Were you a part of that?
LOTT: Yes. I can't deny that. And I, you know, that, I, I believe that I have changed and that I'm trying to do a better job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Do you give him any credit for acknowledging that and acknowledging the work that needs to be done?
GORDON: Well, you know, the question is -- and I asked him later on why the acknowledgement now, you know? Did this all come in part of the firestorm you find yourself in in the last two weeks? Did you not know that you were part of that a month ago, a year ago, five years ago? And why the acknowledgement now?
And I don't know that he answered that to the, in fair-minded people's minds to the satisfaction to what they were hoping to hear.
ZAHN: Do you think he can survive this? And by that I mean not necessarily a Senate job, but his leader as the head of the Republican Party and head of the Senate?
GORDON: Well, I asked him whether or not he believed he could survive it. As of yesterday, he said he thought he could. As you know, he suggested that he did not think it appropriate for the president to ask him to step down. I asked him whether when his colleagues convene on January 6th whether he's going to, indeed, be the majority leader at that point. He believes so. Now, whether that's blind faith, denial or just reading tea leaves with a lot of hope, I don't know. I think as the days go on, it's much, much harder for him to hang on.
ZAHN: Well, I guess his fate may be decided by his fellow Senate colleagues...
GORDON: Indeed.
ZAHN: ... as of January 6th when they convene and try to figure out who they want to lead the party.
Ed Gordon, we really appreciate your dropping by.
GORDON: Paula, thank you so much.
ZAHN: I know you've traveled a lot of miles over the last couple of days.
GORDON: My pleasure.
ZAHN: Thanks for spending a little time with us this morning.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Republican>
