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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Calls for Trent Lott's Removal Grow Louder; Gay Teen Banned From Gym Class
Aired December 18, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: Should high school girls be able to say they're uncomfortable about another girl and cause her to be banned from class?
ANNOUNCER: A teen banned from the girls locker room because she's a lesbian: fair or an outrage? The federal courts will decide.
It was something he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: And if the rest of the country would have followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: It was something he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE JACKSON: So, I had to wrestle with my soul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And how about him?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "POLITICALLY INCORRECT")
BILL MAHER, HOST: We have been the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Is putting your foot in your mouth an occupational hazard for life in the public eye?
A new face cream designed especially for you, but is a DNA wrinkle-remover too good to be true?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My skin has never looked better. It's a miracle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Miracle cream or marketing dream?
A baseball custody battle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX POPOV, HALF-OWNER OF BONDS BASEBALL: I was mugged. It's my ball. I caught it. I want it back.
PATRICK HAYASHI, HALF-OWNER OF BONDS BASEBALL: I look around and there's the ball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Who gets Barry Bonds' record-breaking home run ball?
Hot pursuit, high-speed chases, cops chasing down the bad guys: But all too often, the chase turns deadly for innocent bystanders. When should the police give chase?
And our "Person of the Day": a real lifesaver.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight: The demands for Senator Trent Lott to step down as Senate majority leader are growing louder and more public. For the first time, a sitting Republican senator, Rhode Island's Lincoln Chafee, said Lott should step down because of his remarks that a segregationist should have won the presidency in 1948. And the only African-American Republican in the House, J.C. Watts, who has backed Lott, today said that, if he were Lott, he would step down for the good of his family and his party.
And Secretary of State Colin Powell broke his silence on the matter, strongly condemning Lott's remarks. Lott has spent more than a week apologizing, but it's not clear whether that's helped his case or kept the story alive. Politicians have a mixed record of recovering from stumbles such as this. Consider Republican Congressman Dick Armey's infamous radio address and his remarks about a fellow congressman.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. DICK ARMEY (R), TEXAS: I like peace and quiet. And I don't need the listen to Barney fag -- Barney Frank haranguing in my ear because I made a few bucks off a book I worked on. I just don't want to listen to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Armey tried to deny his words, but apologized once he learned that they were taped.
Presidential candidate George W. Bush was unaware he was in front of a live microphone when he said this about a "New York Times" reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's Adam Clymer, a major league asshole.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, yes, he is, big time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Well, those guys did OK, too.
But, even when politics is just the subject of entertainment, words matter. This is what "Politically Incorrect" host Bill Maher said about September 11.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "POLITICALLY INCORRECT")
MAHER: We have been the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, not cowardly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Those words put his show off the air.
And then today, a former politician who's no slouch himself in politically incorrect behavior, weighed in on the Lott debate. In exclusive comments to CNN today, former President Bill Clinton offered his thoughts on how Republicans are reacting to Lott's remarks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How can they stand to jump on him when they're out there repressing, trying to run black voters away from the polls and running under the Confederate flag in Georgia and South Carolina? I mean look at their whole record. The others, how can they attack him? He just embarrassed them be saying in Washington what they do on the back roads every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Joining us now is with his insights on those back roads, on Senator Lott, and on political gaffes in general, we have Pennsylvania's senior Republican senator, Arlen Specter.
Senator, thank you so much for being with us.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Nice being with you, Connie. Thank you. CHUNG: Senator, actually, I'm a little surprised that you've been defending Senator Lott so much. And some of the things thank have said are just priceless.
You say it's a tough town. The razor blades are invisible. You said you know that you're losing your political skin by sticking your neck out, but, obviously, your political skin is fairly thick, because you are out there. You even said that you feel badly for Senator Lott. But, Senator Specter, he's a big boy. He's been around a long time. He's not a new, naive senator.
SPECTER: We're all big boys, Connie.
I've known Trent Lott for 14 years. And I know he's not a racist or a bigot. What he said was foolish to the extreme, but I don't think he ought to get the death penalty for it. I think that something very positive can come out of all of this. I think that it is obviously, a big wakeup call for Senator Lott. And I think it should be a wakeup call for the Republican Senate caucus and for the Republican Party.
When we meet in early January, I intend to press my moderate agenda on our caucus. I think our caucus ought to support hate crime legislation. There's a big case before the Supreme Court of the United States today on admissions to the University of Michigan. I wrote to the president urging him to take a position that race is a key governmental interest.
CHUNG: So, would you -- you would use this as a catalyst to get more things that you want?
SPECTER: Well, I think it might well be a catalyst, yes.
CHUNG: Let me ask you this, though.
SPECTER: Sure.
CHUNG: Isn't it better for the Republican Party if Senator Lott just does not keep pressing this and gracefully step aside?
SPECTER: Well, I don't consider Senator Lott expendable. It might be easier today. It might take the pressure off the party. But the Senate is independent. And that's a decision which the Republican caucus ought to make. And I'm sure Senator Lott will abide by that decision.
But you had Georgia Congressman John Lewis come out yesterday. I saw precious little in the news media about that, Connie. John Lewis said that Senator Lott's apologies ought to be accepted. Congressman Lewis has an outstanding record as a civil rights advocate, as an African-American. I don't think that taking it off the front page is necessarily in the long-run interest of the Republican Party.
I think what is in the interest of the Republican Party is to admit the failures. And look here. It's not just what Senator Lott said. This peels back the failures of the country on slavery, then on segregation, and now on racism. And I think it's time that we stopped talking about being the party of Lincoln and start acting like it.
CHUNG: Don't you think that maybe there's a body in the Senate saying, White House, you stay out of this, Mr. President, you stay out of this? Because, basically, what they're doing is, they're talking this little undercurrent basically silent on the outside, but quietly maneuvering on the inside.
In fact, I saw a couple of quotes yesterday that said that Lott is a walking pinata. And that came from, obviously, the same person quoted in one paper and another paper. So, is it that you all don't like the White House trying to push you around?
SPECTER: Well, I don't pay any attention to statements from unnamed sources. I think, if somebody has something to say, they ought to come out and say it. They ought to face the cameras and they ought to be very explicit.
I was with President Bush here in Philadelphia last Thursday when he condemned, in the strongest possible terms, what Senator Lott said. And that condemnation was accurate. And Senator Lott accepted it. And President Bush's spokesman has said that the president is not calling for Senator Lott to step down for his job. Now, a lot of people can say a lot of things. But, if they are not man enough or woman enough to come out and say it publicly, I disregard it.
CHUNG: Hear, hear. I like your spirit, Senator Specter. Thank you so much for being with us.
SPECTER: A pleasure to be with you. Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: When we come back: If a student makes other students uncomfortable, who should pay the price for that?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: We see them on TV and can't stop watching. But it's not entertainment. Cop chases are serious business, but have they gotten out of hand?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: When does a school go too far in trying to serve many students at the expense of one? Is it OK to kick a student out of class for having something, what, that might be used as a weapon? Or what if a teacher suspects a student is high or drunk or the student expresses controversial opinions on maybe religion or politics? That might make other students uneasy.
Well, you're about to meet a girl who was kicked out of her high school gym class last year. She claims she was banned because her teacher heard she is a lesbian and that other girls in the class said she made them feel uncomfortable in the locker room. She has filed a lawsuit against her gym teacher, the vice principal, the principal, and the superintendent. No one would comment. Amelia Massey is the young girl's mother. And she joins us from Los Angeles, along with her daughter at the eye of this firestorm, Ashley, and their ACLU attorney, Martha Matthews.
Thank you all for being with us.
All right, Ashley, tell us, one of the other girls in the gym class said that you were a lesbian when you were asked by someone if you were. And this other girl piped in and said you were a lesbian. And then what happened?
ASHLEY MASSEY, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: The gym teacher after class kind of reprimanded me, saying that: That's none of our business and we don't need to know that. And she left it at that.
CHUNG: So, then you were kept out of gym, right?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Right. The next day.
CHUNG: For about, what, a week?
ASHLEY MASSEY: About a week and a half.
CHUNG: All right.
And how did the other students treat you? Because, during gym class, you were sitting in the principal's office and it was quite obvious to the other students that's where you were.
ASHLEY MASSEY: Right.
CHUNG: So, the question is, how did the other students treat you?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Oh.
They would talk around the campus, because I didn't know why I was put in the office for that amount of time.
CHUNG: The principal's office? No one told you why you were sitting there?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Right. Right.
So, I knew that the kids were talking. And I'd get rude comments when I'd walk out of the office once in a while.
CHUNG: Specifically about your sexuality?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Right.
CHUNG: All right. So, eventually, you actually left the gym class. You never went back to it, correct?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Right.
CHUNG: All right.
Mom, tell us, Amelia, you found out about this because the gym teacher called you. What did she say?
AMELIA MASSEY, MOTHER OF ASHLEY MASSEY: Well, she said that there was an incident in the gym where it was said that Ashley was a lesbian. And I said, "OK, was there any misconduct going on in there?"
And she said no. And I asked her, "Well, is Ashley doing what she's supposed to do in the gym class?" And they said yes.
And so then she said, "But the girls feel uncomfortable."
And I said, "Well, I believe you need to take this up with your administrator, because if Ashley is doing what she's supposed to be doing, then I don't see a problem with that."
CHUNG: So, Ashley, did any of the other girls express to you that they indeed felt uncomfortable having you in the locker room?
ASHLEY MASSEY: No, they didn't, because I asked. I had asked them, because a lot of them were my friends. I said, "If you feel uncomfortable, you need to let me know." And they all said that they didn't mind it. It didn't matter. It was fine.
CHUNG: Now, what were we are hearing is your version and your mother's version. And then, in a minute, we'll hear your attorney's version. But the school, actually, the teacher, the superintendent, the principal, all of them have not given their side of the story, correct?
ASHLEY MASSEY: Correct.
CHUNG: They have not confirmed any of the allegations that you've made.
ASHLEY MASSEY: Correct.
CHUNG: All right.
So, Ms. Matthews, Martha Matthews, what exactly are you trying to achieve with this lawsuit?
MARTHA MATTHEWS, ATTORNEY FOR ASHLEY MASSEY: Well, first of all, the lawsuit protects a student's right to be treated equally in a public school. Every child in America has a right to go to public school and be treated fairly and equally. So, the lawsuit protects Ashley's constitutional right to equal treatment in a public school classroom.
The other thing is that there is a fairly recent California state law, the Student Safety and Violence Prevention Act of 2000, which specifically prohibits school districts from discriminating against students on the basis of real or perceived sexual orientation. And that law, although it's been around for a couple of years, it seems like not all school districts are aware of the fact that they have this obligation to make sure that every student is safe and is treated fairly, whether they're gay or lesbian or straight or bisexual, just like students...
CHUNG: So, what do you hope to gain from this lawsuit? Is it a monetary settlement?
MATTHEWS: It's both.
We are asking for damages for Ashley for the emotional harm of being put on display, sitting in the principal's office for a week and a half. We are also asking for an injunction that would require the school to have clearer written policies, training for teachers and administrators to make sure that no child is ever treated like this again.
CHUNG: Ashley, you're not in that school anymore, just because you happened to move to a different school, not because of this incident. How's it going there?
ASHLEY MASSEY: It's going a lot better.
CHUNG: All right.
What did you want the school to do? What are they expected to do, in your mind, because, after all, they need to protect the rights of the other students. They need to protect your rights. So, what are they supposed to do?
ASHLEY MASSEY: I think that, in this, they need to learn how -- if this comes up again, how to deal with it in the correct way and not put other students up as a spectacle, like I was made up to be. And...
MATTHEWS: Connie, if I could say something about that.
CHUNG: Just quickly, if I can just give you 10 seconds?
MATTHEWS: Sure.
Yes. Just because someone is uncomfortable -- students might have been uncomfortable with students of a different race in the early days of integration. People don't have a right to exclude people they're uncomfortable with from a space that everyone has the right to be in, like a public school.
CHUNG: All right, Martha Matthews, Amelia and Ashley Massey, thank you so much for being with us.
And, again, our calls for comment were referred to the school superintendent, who did not return our calls.
Now joining us with an outside perspective is our own legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
So glad you're back in New York. JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's nice to be here.
CHUNG: Sitting in the place that I always like you to be.
TOOBIN: That's where I like to be.
CHUNG: All right.
Can they win this lawsuit?
TOOBIN: They can, although it's interesting.
The federal government has done very little to protect the rights of gay people. The federal courts, under the U.S. Constitution, have, by and large -- not totally -- but, by and large, said sexual orientation is not something that we protect. However, many states are moving in that direction, especially California.
And California has said, as Martha Matthews pointed out, that discrimination in a school setting because of sexual orientation is grounds for damages. So, they could probably win, if their allegations are true, under California state law.
CHUNG: Well, what about the rights of the other students, if indeed they say they feel uncomfortable? And we don't even know in fact that that's what they're saying.
TOOBIN: That's right. And, as you pointed out several times, we don't know the school's side of the story.
But if it is purely a matter of accommodating the prejudices of students who simply don't like someone who has a different sexual orientation, that's not good enough. You cannot discriminate against someone, even if everybody else wants you to discriminate against them, under California law. Under the federal law, you might be able to get away with that.
CHUNG: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, so nice to have you.
TOOBIN: Good to be back.
CHUNG: Maybe another time before Christmas.
TOOBIN: You kidding?
CHUNG: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: All right.
In the war on terror today, a terrorism task force arrested four brothers in Dallas today. They are accused of ties to Hamas and helping funnel money overseas to rogue nations. Now, the White House hasn't issued its official report on Iraq's weaponry documentation yet, but today said that the documents include omissions and deceptions, falling short of meeting the U.N. requirements, but not so seriously as to merit a call for war.
And it's the prospect of war that tops tonight's look at "The World in: 60".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): The idea of war with Iraq isn't sitting well with most Americans, according to a new "L.A. Times" poll. More than two- thirds say President Bush still hasn't convinced them the conflict is justified.
The U.N. has been skeptical as well. And its chief weapons inspector will present his take on Iraq's arms declaration tomorrow. That's when the world body will get the official U.S. reaction as well.
Meanwhile, Britain's war machine is springing to life. Reservists are being told to stand by for new orders. And many cargo ships capable of transporting troops and tanks are being hired.
Ominous news on al Qaeda from the U.N.: A new report says foot soldiers for the terror group are making their way back to recently reactivated training camps in Afghanistan.
And a North Korean cargo ship that captured so many headlines last week has arrived at its destination. It off-loaded the Scud missiles reportedly ordered by Yemen's army.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: When is it not a crime to punch a guy in the face or slam him into a wall? Well, in sports, of course. That's why, when someone catches a potentially $1 million baseball at a baseball game, everyone around him thinks it's OK to treat him like a pinata. That's what happened as Barry Bonds made history with home run ball 73 last year.
As CNN's Rusty Dornin reports, today, a judge made the call on who owns that ball.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a decision worthy of King Solomon.
JUDGE KEVIN MCCARTHY, SAN FRANCISCO SUPERIOR COURT: They are equally entitled to the ball. The court therefore declares that both plaintiff and defendant have an equal and undivided interest in the ball. The ball must be sold and divided equally between the parties.
DORNIN: Who are those parties? Let's go back to October 7, 2001. Barry Bonds hit it. Alex Popov caught it. The man who ended up with it, emerging from the melee holding the record-breaking ball, was Patrick Hayashi. But Popov cried foul. POPOV: I was mugged. It's my ball. I caught it. I want it back.
DORNIN: To try to get the ball back, Popov sued, claiming Hayashi took it from him. Hayashi said he didn't take it from anybody. Basically, it was his for the taking.
HAYASHI: So, as I'm laying pretty much on the ground, I look around and there's the ball. It's in no one's possession at that time. And I put it right into my glove.
DORNIN: Fourteen months later, Judge Kevin McCarthy decided they both had rights to the ball. No one knows whether Popov could have hung on to the ball, because he was attacked, as the judge put it, by a band of bandits, and Patrick Hayashi did nothing wrong by picking up the ball. Hayashi says he is glad the judge cleared up accusations that he assaulted Popov.
HAYASHI: I think it's a partial victory, actually, for myself, because it does show that I did nothing wrong that day. It did show that I did hold the ball at the end. I did have full control of that ball. And it's unclear, actually, whether Mr. Popov actually held onto that ball.
DORNIN: Popov says he still believes the ball was his and he wanted to keep it and is upset it will be forcibly sold, but said it's a victory for the fans.
POPOV: Well, I'm happy with the decision, obviously. It is a good thing that violence will not be supported at all ballparks and hopefully all sporting events.
DORNIN (on camera): Just like in baseball, it ain't over until it's over. And both sides now say they are considering an appeal.
(voice-over): The ball remains locked up in a safe deposit box. Its value: maybe $1 million, minus, of course, attorneys fees and taxes.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And the attorneys getting those fees are with us tonight from San Francisco, along with their clients.
Alex Popov was first to get the ball. His attorney is Martin Triano. And Patrick Hayashi ended up with the ball. His attorney is Don Tamaki.
Thank you so much for being with us, all of you.
All right, let's start with Alex.
Alex, you brought this lawsuit. Are you angry with the judge? POPOV: Well, Connie, when this first happened, I called Mr. Hayashi and I said, look, let's go have a beer and let's talk about this. Let's try to work this out. He refused to return my call. I found out in the press that he hired an agent to sell the baseball. And that's when I had to go down the legal path.
CHUNG: I know, but now it's a tie. Now it's a tie. You have to share. So, maybe you're upset with the judge or maybe you're not. Tell me.
POPOV: Well, I am in the sense that I don't have full interest in the baseball. That's a disappointment. I was hoping for that. It was something that, with all the witnesses, the 17 witnesses that said that I caught the ball, I controlled the ball. There was no loose ball. They were there. They saw what happened.
And, clearly, the videotape also shows that. And what we didn't want to have happen is: Do people profit from violence? And, in some ways, I believe the judge spoke to that. But, if you look at this, Mr. Hayashi is, in some ways, profiting from violence. So I'm a little bit concerned about that.
CHUNG: Well, let me go over and talk to him.
Patrick, you in fact were cleared by the judge. What did he say? He said something like, you had not in fact assaulted Mr. Popov. So, in that respect, do you consider it a victory.
HAYASHI: That's right. It was clear today what the judge has said, that I had no involvement in any wrongdoing. And this is totally opposite to what Mr. Popov has been saying since day one.
CHUNG: And just now.
HAYASHI: He's been accusing me of...
CHUNG: Just now.
HAYASHI: Yes, and just now, even now claiming it.
And I find it kind of disturbing that a judge has done a through evaluation of his case, yet Mr. Popov still has not acknowledged that fact. And I would like to see him actually acknowledge the fact that I did nothing wrong that day, that the ball was there in no one's possession and I just put it right into my glove.
CHUNG: Well, apparently, it doesn't seem like he's ready to do that. Or, you want him to apologize as well, don't you?
HAYASHI: Well, I feel that he has to make a statement and clarify exactly what the judge said. And if you want to call it an apology, then that's what it is. And I think it will be the gentlemanly thing to do.
CHUNG: Yes.
And are you prepared to do that, sir?
POPOV: Well, Connie, if you listen to the Judge McCarthy, I am the one that was attacked by a bunch of bandits. I think Mr. Hayashi owes me an apology for not calling me 14 months ago to try to work this out. He's the won that drug it out.
And I'm not stating that Mr. Hayashi actually was involved in the violence that he's profiting from. But because of the violence of others, even if he is an innocent bystander and he sees something that rolled out of my glove, because of the wrongful acts of others, he is profiting by that. And that's what I have a problem with.
CHUNG: I want to ask you all one more question.
Don't you feel a little silly, because you spent 14 months of your lives haggling over the baseball? And, in the end, you are going to have to pay these lawyers who are sitting next to you -- which I haven't had a chance to ask a question of. But you're going to have to pay them. And, after taxes, who knows what you are going to get?
POPOV: Well, Connie, you never really know.
And, really, yesterday, I owned none of this ball. And today, the judge said that I have a recognizable interest. And it's 50 percent. So, 14 months ago, when Mr. Hayashi wouldn't return my calls, I had zero. So, today, I'm a lot better off. And I have to sit down and look at everything and evaluate. Do I want to go forward down the path further and try to get full recovery of the baseball? Otherwise...
CHUNG: Patrick, how about you?
HAYASHI: Yes.
And, like I say, this was several months before even the trial, and right before it. We did several rounds of negotiations. And I said just what Barry Bonds has said. Why not just put the ball on the table and split the proceeds? Yet Mr. Popov disagreed with that.
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: You know what? I have a feeling this is going to go on and on.
And I apologize, Martin and Don, for not talking to you. But we are going to have to go. Thank you all for being with us.
Still ahead: Who is our "Person of the Day"? One hint: He's a little kid who went off on his own in the dark of the night.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: a beauty cream that promises to make you look younger. Nothing new? Not so fast. This one's made with your own DNA -- why some say this is an ugly idea for a beauty product.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Well, naturally, television news anchors never pay any attention to such things as makeup or cosmetics.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: But for women who do and for men who do, the prospect of finding a product with real results is a tantalizing one. So, you may be intrigued to hear of a new face cream, which CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports is marketed on the promise that this face cream is really you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is it the next generation of skin care science or a scam?
Over the centuries, everything from herbs to sheep placentas have been used to make skin scream. Now it's DNA. The company Lab 21 has open shop at 14 malls in seven states. Come in. They'll swab your cheek, send the cells back to a lab and examine your genes. Then they say they'll formulate a product based on your specific variations of five genes related to skin sensitivity and aging.
CHARLES RYAN, LAB 21: There are literally thousands of ingredients that we can use in custom-formulating a product. It varies based on your particular skin.
COHEN: The tub of cream has your name on it and costs $250.
RYAN: For someone who is serious about skin care, $250 is not an exorbitant amount of money to spend on something that really is going to give you anti-aging benefits.
COHEN: But it will work? No way, according to several geneticists and dermatologists interviewed by CNN. Some even called it snake oil and misleading to consumers.
DR. RICHARD MYERS, GENETICIST: If they're expecting that they're going to buy a product that's genetically programmed for their skin, this won't accomplish what they're hoping to accomplish.
COHEN: The experts we talked to said knowing about your genes doesn't mean a thing. It's being able to make a treatment based on the genes that's important. For example, doctors have known the genes for Huntington's disease and breast cancer for years, but haven't come up with cures for those diseases.
MYERS: Simply studying a DNA sample, when we don't know which genes are regulating skin care, is science fiction.
COHEN: The company said they're not surprised by the criticism. They say their information is proprietary and the scientists we talked to just don't know about it. RYAN: There are people that we work with that are educated about the Lab 21 technology. And they would not call it snake oil. They would say that it's something spectacular.
COHEN: But many experts doubt it, saying the wrinkle is, the science simply isn't there yet.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Lab 21 hopes to publish their research soon and says that maybe then the skeptics would be convinced -- Connie.
CHUNG: Elizabeth, forget about your skin. You've got to take care of your voice. So, I'll get back to you in a minute, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: I've got someone here with me who I suspect has something to say about your report.
Nathaniel Benson is the president and CEO of Lab 21, which makes DNA cream.
Thank you so much for being with us.
NATHANIEL BENSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, LAB 21: Yes. Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: So, how does this work? I'm very skeptical. You have to understand that.
BENSON: Sure. And I have to say that most experts are very skeptical about this. And, quite frankly, I don't blame them.
The way it works is, we combine two things. We combine a very comprehensive series of questions which we ask our customers, which takes about 15 minutes. And that is processed by a high-speed computer equipment. And we combine that with a DNA test which allows us to look at five genes which pertain to skin health and skin aging.
CHUNG: But how do you know any particular gene will affect the particular problem that this person has?
BENSON: Well, we know -- according to our technology, which we spent millions of dollars researching over the last couple of years, we know that there are five genes, at least five genes -- and, right now, we are actually looking at others -- but five genes that provide us a lot of information about an individual's skin health and skin aging.
But bear in mind, we don't look at that in isolation. We combine that with an extensive amount of data that we gather about an individual, including other aspects of their skin, their lifestyle, their age, their ethnicity, etcetera. CHUNG: Why is it so darn expensive?
BENSON: To be quite honest with you, Connie, I would love it if our company could sell this product for less money because...
CHUNG: Oh, come on. No, you love
(CROSSTALK)
BENSON: Because we could actually put it in the hands of many more people.
But the fact of the matter is that we've spent millions of dollars developing the technology. It's extremely expensive to make. And DNA testing today is very, very costly.
CHUNG: And how long does it take, what?
BENSON: It takes about 10 days for the product from the time the DNA test is completed to when the consumer receives the product.
CHUNG: Elizabeth, you can be the truth squad here. It's not that I don't believe Mr. Benson, but I've been skeptical from the beginning.
So, Elizabeth, what are the geneticists telling you?
COHEN: The geneticists are telling me, Connie, that you can know whatever you want to know about the gene. That doesn't necessarily mean you have a treatment.
For example, I was speaking to a geneticist at Boston University who is an expert in Huntington's disease. Eight years ago, his lab found the gene for Huntington's disease. They know everything about that gene. They know what chromosome it's on. They know how it's passed from mother -- from parent to child. But they can't do anything about Huntington's disease. Just saying that you know what the genes are does not mean you can create a treatment.
So, just saying, oh, here's the gene for wrinkles does not mean you can get rid of the wrinkles.
CHUNG: Mr. Benson?
BENSON: Obviously, I feel sorry for the fact that the science has not moved far enough in terms of understanding Huntington's disease. But, in the area of skin care, we've made tremendous progress.
CHUNG: You mean you believe that there really is a link there and you are able to identify that link?
BENSON: Unquestionably.
And I have to tell you, Connie, that we have, in addition to reams and reams of clinical data, we have thousands of customers that have actually purchased this product and a great many of them who have repurchased it again.
CHUNG: Do you have a before-and-after that's dramatic?
BENSON: Well, we don't take before-and-after pictures. We're certainly not into gimmicks. But the fact of the matter is, I spend about half my day speaking to customers who call up raving about the results on their skin.
CHUNG: And what happened to their skin?
BENSON: And it could be any one of a variety of things.
In fact, I'll give you an example. If we were to do this to 10,000 people, each one of those 10,000 people would have a different formulation dealing with different issues. And I can give you a couple of examples.
CHUNG: I think we don't have time, but I just want to be sure that you're not blowing smoke in our faces.
BENSON: Absolutely not. This -- well, the proof is in the pudding. We filed one patent, which, quite frankly, is the first patent filed in this field. And we are working on three others. And that is a very, very major accomplishment.
CHUNG: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.
Nathaniel Benson, thank you as well.
When we come back: Are those high-speed police chases more dangerous than the suspected criminals running away?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The LAPD says it had almost 800 car chases last year. That's more than two per day. All the racing cars and screaming sirens led to 283 collisions and 139 injuries, most of them in chases started by minor traffic infractions.
Now, as CNN's Anne McDermott reports, the LAPD is considering slamming on the brakes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNE MCDERMOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Los Angeles leads the nation in police pursuits but too many of them, more than a third end like this and often end up hurting innocents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, he's getting on the on ramp, getting on the on ramp, oh my gosh. He's crazy.
MCDERMOTT: A baby boy lost an arm a couple of weeks ago after a car cops were chasing hit his family's van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A horribly violent collision.
MCDERMOTT: And a four-year-old girl died this summer after another police pursuit ended badly. Now Chief of Police William Bratton, following the lead of other cities, wants to ban some of these chases and is now at work on a plan that might stop cops from pursuits that begin with traffic violations, which is how almost 60 percent of L.A. police pursuits begin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As he continues now through High Park, he is flying.
MCDERMOTT: In Los Angeles, live coverage of police pursuits has been a staple of local news for years, not necessarily because news directors like it, Jeff Wald doesn't, but viewers do.
JEFF WALD, WTLA NEWS DIRECTOR: There's a tremendous fascination in seeing the bad guy getting caught and that's just what it's all about.
MCDERMOTT: But LAPD Chief Bratton isn't so sure.
CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE: It's risen to the level of entertainment rather than reporting of news in my perspective.
MCDERMOTT: It can be entertaining. Lots of Los Angelinos were transfixed by the sight of a stolen 7-Up truck crazily rounding corners dropping bottles like bombs. This one ended peacefully but, again, they don't always and not just in L.A. This one was in Las Vegas, Chicago, Philadelphia.
And smaller cities are not immune. This was Fresno just this week. The police say they have to do a balancing act, one that protects citizens and still allows them to nab the bad guys and sometimes there's a twist. This citizen thought the police were too slow to stop a pursuit and tried to end it himself. Amazingly it did end without any injuries.
Anne McDermott, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining me now from Northridge, California, are Vicky and Hank Medellin.
As Anne McDermott noted, two weeks ago, a driver trying to escape police hit their car. And their 3-week-old son Harley (ph) lost his left arm.
Thank you, Vicky (ph) and Hank, for being with us. I am so sorry, what has happened.
Tell us, your son is home from the hospital.
Hank, how is he? HANK MEDELLIN, FATHER OF INFANT MAIMED IN CRASH: He's doing good. I mean, he's stable. We're trying to get him adjusted to being back at home and just try to go on with our life.
CHUNG: We're looking at pictures of him. And he's really adorable.
Vicky, take us back to December 3. It was 2:30 in the afternoon. You and your husband and your baby were in the SUV. And what happened?
VICTORIA MEDELLIN, MOTHER OF INFANT MAIMED IN CRASH: Well, we were driving.
And before we knew it, we had started spinning. And it felt like a couple cars were hitting us. And we came to a stop. And before I got out, I realized there were so many officers around. And they had people laying on the floor with their guns drawn. And I just ran to the baby and realized that my baby's car seat was flipped over.
And I turned the car seat back around. And he looked like he was OK. And then they helped me get him out of the car. And then I just heard somebody scream that his arm was gone. And I looked and it wasn't there.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh.
So, you were airlifted. You and your baby were airlifted to Children's Hospital. At that point, you had to have known it was so serious.
V. MEDELLIN: Well, when you look at it, your son's arm and it's not there and there's blood, I mean, of course it's serious.
CHUNG: When did you realize that your son's arm could not be reattached?
V. MEDELLIN: The day after the accident. The night they lifted us to Children's Hospital, they were talking about getting some surgeons in and trying to reattach his arm. But they said they couldn't do it because it wasn't cut completely -- it was pulled. So, there was a lot more damage done to the whole entire arm, as opposed to just being severed off.
CHUNG: Hank, whom do you blame?
H. MEDELLIN: I blame everybody.
I blame the guy for taking off. I blame the police for chasing him through a residential school district. I blame everybody. This shouldn't have happened. None of this should have happened.
CHUNG: What do you think about this policy that the Los Angeles police chief is hoping to institute? And that would be to eliminate these police chases.
H. MEDELLIN: Eliminating them, I don't know. That's hard. Sometimes they need them, but at what point?
Like my wife said, he wasn't a murderer. I mean, you have to realize or decide on, is it really worth it? Is the neighborhood worth it? Is it really worth putting everyone else in that neighborhood, everyone else on that street in danger, putting their life on the line, just likes ours was, just like our sons?
CHUNG: You are so right.
Vicky, what's your son's prognosis? What are the doctors telling you?
V. MEDELLIN: He's stable right now. But, at this point, there's not much -- there's not much they can tell us, other than he's stable at the moment. He does have a healing process to go through. We don't know if there's any long-term effects. We just have to take it day by day...
CHUNG: All right.
V. MEDELLIN: ... and just hope and pray he'll get better.
CHUNG: Yes.
Vicky and Hank, our prayers are with you as well, and your little boy. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. We appreciate it.
Tonight: A Hollywood trip to half-a-world away for a good cause tops our "Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Actor Richard Gere helped dedicate a new home for women and children with AIDS in India, a nation second only to South Africa in total number of AIDS cases.
Actress Elizabeth Hurley is turning down $158,000 a year in child support offered by Hollywood producer Steve Bing, the father of their 8-month-old child. In a statement, Hurley said -- quote -- "The money is not wanted or welcome."
Many Trekkies will be trekking to London in the coming weeks to check out a new interactive exhibit dedicated to all things Enterprise. "Star Trek: The Adventure" opened today and runs through next month.
NASA is documenting the death of a glacier. These images of Mount Kilimanjaro show the steady decline of the mountain's icecaps, which some experts predict will be gone by 2015.
And, evidently, these fish at a Tokyo aquarium have been especially good this year. They just got an early Christmas dinner from a Santa Claus wearing scuba gear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: For our "Person of the Day" tonight, we picked a very quick-thinking and courageous 7-year-old boy who ran alone at night in his socks to become a hero.
Titus Adams of Colorado spoke at a news conference with his mother about the car crash that left his two younger sisters unharmed, but tossed his mother from the vehicle with fractured ribs and vertebrae. If Titus hadn't run more than a quarter-mile for help, paramedics said his mother might not have been alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMMY ADAMS-HILL, MOTHER: I call him my little hero, which he doesn't really like, because sometimes he says he's tired of being the hero. He just wants to be Titus. If it wasn't for Titus, I don't know if I'd be sitting here today.
TITUS ADAMS, 7 YEARS OLD: I told Tiffany (ph) to try to keep not Kierra (ph) from crying. And I told them that I would be back. And I told Tiffany. I promised. And I went out of the truck and I ran to go get help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Good job, Titus.
And that's exactly what he did, after making sure his sisters were OK, all of which makes him our "Person of the Day."
And that's our news. Whoops. There you are.
Tomorrow, we have a lot more news. Join us then.
"LARRY KING" is next. Good night.
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