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Interview with Former Weapons Inspector Garth Whitty

Aired December 18, 2002 - 11:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We are told now that President Bush is set to declare Iraq has not met a requirement to spill out its weapons program fully. Will he also pull the trigger on war now because of that?
Well, our senior White House correspondent John King is on this story this morning, and he's at his post there at the White House. Let's go to him now.

Good morning, John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Leon.

And to your last question, will the president consider this a trigger for military confrontation? We are told here at the White House, the answer is no, at least not yet. But a significant day this morning in the showdown with Saddam Hussein and the government of Iraq, Mr. Bush meeting with the full National Security Council at the White House here this morning. That meeting ran about an hour. On the way out, we did see leaving the Secretary of State Colin Powell, General Richard Myers. He's of course, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. The Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld also among those on hand.

At that meeting, we are told, the president decided with the full consensus of his senior national security team that Iraq failed to meet the test, and that its report, its declaration to the United Nations, does not come clean, if you will, on the question of what has happened with its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs.

As that meeting was going on, Ari Fleischer meeting with reporters, confirming to us, he says, "The president has been briefed on the Iraqi declaration," end quote. The president is concerned about omissions in the declaration and also problems in the declaration. Other senior officials telling us privately the United States has concluded the document falls far short of Iraq's promise and its commitment under the resolution to completely, fully and accurately account for its weapons programs. U.S. officials say, though, they will declare to the United Nations, tell the Security Council, that the United States believes this is a violation, that the United States now believes Iraq is in violation of the demands of that Security Council Resolution, that it make a full declaration. But no talk of any immediate military action.

In the short term, we are told, the administration will push for much more robust inspections on the ground. The Bush administration is closely coordinating with the government of Great Britain in this regard.

White House officials say any decisions about possibly turning the corner to a potential military confrontation are weeks, if not more, away. In the short term, the focus will be on much more robust inspections.

The United States wants to lay down this marker, that it believes Saddam Hussein failed the test, and has not fully disclosed it's weapons programs to the United Nations -- Leon.

HARRIS: I'm not even sure that you can answer this question. But is the intention there at the White House to put more pressure with it coming out now, with President Bush giving his assessment of Iraq's declaration on Friday, is the intention there at the White House, to put more pressure on the Security Council, or on the inspectors on the ground in Iraq?

KING: Both -- the question is valid on both accounts. Number one, the United States wants the inspectors to be more robust, including invoking the provisions of the resolution that allow the inspectors to take Iraqi scientists and other people involved in the weapons program outside of the country to interview them. The inspectors have been reluctant to do that. The United States thinks that is how you will get the most honest answer.

As for the number of the members of the Security Council, Prime Minister Blair perhaps put it best in terms of reflecting the strategy. In a speech to the House of Commons earlier today, he said, the United States and great Britain were working multilaterally, working through the United Nations, but that the United Nations then had an obligation. If the United States, Great Britain and others declare Iraq is in violation, in breach of its commitment, then the Security Council has to rise to the challenge of addressing the -- quote, unquote -- serious consequences. Of course, that would be a military confrontation.

One of the reasons the administration is taking this slowly, they say deliberately here at the White House is because it knows it has a lot of diplomacy to do to convince other members of the Security Council that we are anywhere close to the point where military action should be put on the table.

HARRIS: Understood. John King at the White House. Thanks, John.

We'll talk some more about this inspection regime right now. U.N. inspectors are busy in Iraq, visiting at least nine sites we hear. Experts have traveled to a water plant, paint factory and missile launch facility as well around Baghdad. In the north of the country, inspectors made their first visits to Masul (ph) University, and to the sprawling Sadam (ph) complex in the north.

Now, Garth Whitty is a former U.N. weapons inspector, and he joins us now from London this morning to talk about what we are hearing coming from the White House, as well as what we heard coming from the House of Commons this morning, when we heard Prime Minister Tony Blair discussing Iraq and the move now toward proving whether or not Iraq has fully complied with the U.N. demand for it to disclose everything that in its weapons program.

Garth Whitty, we thank you for taking time with us again this morning.

As you've seen in the recent hours, there's more information coming from both the British government and the U.S. government, saying that there were big omissions and problems with this declaration now that was made by Iraq, and now we're going to be seeing President Bush coming out on Friday, right after the U.N. Security Council gets its actually briefing from Hans Blix.

What do you make of that? Does President Bush coming out and speaking like this put more pressure on the inspectors there on the ground?

GARTH WHITTY, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Absolutely. I think it puts more pressure on all of the players in this drama that's unfolding in front of us, the inspectors certainly, and indeed Saddam Hussein and his regime.

HARRIS: In a positive way on the inspectors?

WHITTY: They are obviously under huge pressure and have been for sometime. Whether they see it as positive is hard to imagine, but the reality is that the only way a war will be prevented is by the inspectors being more robust than they have been able to be thus far, and demonstrating that there is nothing there or finding that which has been hidden.

HARRIS: Some official has been quoted this morning as saying that in the next phase, which is going to be taking place fairly soon, is going to be more robust. They'll be getting more information. We will have updated information. This is coming from an IAEA official, saying after the new year, we'll begin more intensive probing. Do we know what's happening, what's going to be different between now and after the new year?

WHITTY: I don't know. I can speculate that more information is coming to both the IAEA and UNMOVIC and from countries that have an interest and indeed have information that can be acted on. One of the problems, I think, that we're not going to get away from is the reality is that Iraq is a huge country. The regime has had a number of years to hide what they wish to hide, and there's a very limited number of inspectors available.

HARRIS: Now, let me ask you this, speaking as a former inspector here, as you know, there is a bit of a conflict here in the view from the White House and the U.N. weapons inspection team, this view of taking scientists out of the country and debriefing them there in the country or someplace else. Now, I have seen quotes from others who have been with the teams in the past, that said, that actually, in the past, they got more information from talking to Iraqi experts there on the ground and did not see a need to take them outside of the country. Do you agree with that? WHITTY: There certainly was information given in the past, but the circumstances were rather different. I think as we've discussed before, in 1991 when the inspection regime first started, there was cooperation from a number of highly placed Iraqis. With the passage of time, that cooperation was eroded; not entirely through Iraqi efforts, but also concessions were made by the United Nations that, with hindsight, probably shouldn't have been made.

I do see significant difficulty, in fact, in getting people out of the country, not the least of which problem is that unless they take their entire families, they will be hostage to whatever Saddam Hussein's regime wishes to do to their relatives back in Iraq.

HARRIS: Now with President Bush coming out and speaking before the U.N. gets a chance to evaluate this will report and this translation of the report that was turned over by Iraq, would you be concerned as someone from outside the country looking in here that perhaps that the administration here may be appearing to rush things by not allowing the U.N. to take this information and evaluate it fully and then make a decision based upon that evaluation?

WHITTY: Yes, I think that's entirely possible. In terms of maintaining international support, there would seem to be merit in using the good office of the U.N. to process all the information and actually be their conduit through which that information is passed on to the international community.

HARRIS: Garth Whitty, we thank you very much, as always, for the insight. Take care. We hope to talk with you fairly soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 18, 2002 - 11:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: We are told now that President Bush is set to declare Iraq has not met a requirement to spill out its weapons program fully. Will he also pull the trigger on war now because of that?
Well, our senior White House correspondent John King is on this story this morning, and he's at his post there at the White House. Let's go to him now.

Good morning, John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Leon.

And to your last question, will the president consider this a trigger for military confrontation? We are told here at the White House, the answer is no, at least not yet. But a significant day this morning in the showdown with Saddam Hussein and the government of Iraq, Mr. Bush meeting with the full National Security Council at the White House here this morning. That meeting ran about an hour. On the way out, we did see leaving the Secretary of State Colin Powell, General Richard Myers. He's of course, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. The Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld also among those on hand.

At that meeting, we are told, the president decided with the full consensus of his senior national security team that Iraq failed to meet the test, and that its report, its declaration to the United Nations, does not come clean, if you will, on the question of what has happened with its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs.

As that meeting was going on, Ari Fleischer meeting with reporters, confirming to us, he says, "The president has been briefed on the Iraqi declaration," end quote. The president is concerned about omissions in the declaration and also problems in the declaration. Other senior officials telling us privately the United States has concluded the document falls far short of Iraq's promise and its commitment under the resolution to completely, fully and accurately account for its weapons programs. U.S. officials say, though, they will declare to the United Nations, tell the Security Council, that the United States believes this is a violation, that the United States now believes Iraq is in violation of the demands of that Security Council Resolution, that it make a full declaration. But no talk of any immediate military action.

In the short term, we are told, the administration will push for much more robust inspections on the ground. The Bush administration is closely coordinating with the government of Great Britain in this regard.

White House officials say any decisions about possibly turning the corner to a potential military confrontation are weeks, if not more, away. In the short term, the focus will be on much more robust inspections.

The United States wants to lay down this marker, that it believes Saddam Hussein failed the test, and has not fully disclosed it's weapons programs to the United Nations -- Leon.

HARRIS: I'm not even sure that you can answer this question. But is the intention there at the White House to put more pressure with it coming out now, with President Bush giving his assessment of Iraq's declaration on Friday, is the intention there at the White House, to put more pressure on the Security Council, or on the inspectors on the ground in Iraq?

KING: Both -- the question is valid on both accounts. Number one, the United States wants the inspectors to be more robust, including invoking the provisions of the resolution that allow the inspectors to take Iraqi scientists and other people involved in the weapons program outside of the country to interview them. The inspectors have been reluctant to do that. The United States thinks that is how you will get the most honest answer.

As for the number of the members of the Security Council, Prime Minister Blair perhaps put it best in terms of reflecting the strategy. In a speech to the House of Commons earlier today, he said, the United States and great Britain were working multilaterally, working through the United Nations, but that the United Nations then had an obligation. If the United States, Great Britain and others declare Iraq is in violation, in breach of its commitment, then the Security Council has to rise to the challenge of addressing the -- quote, unquote -- serious consequences. Of course, that would be a military confrontation.

One of the reasons the administration is taking this slowly, they say deliberately here at the White House is because it knows it has a lot of diplomacy to do to convince other members of the Security Council that we are anywhere close to the point where military action should be put on the table.

HARRIS: Understood. John King at the White House. Thanks, John.

We'll talk some more about this inspection regime right now. U.N. inspectors are busy in Iraq, visiting at least nine sites we hear. Experts have traveled to a water plant, paint factory and missile launch facility as well around Baghdad. In the north of the country, inspectors made their first visits to Masul (ph) University, and to the sprawling Sadam (ph) complex in the north.

Now, Garth Whitty is a former U.N. weapons inspector, and he joins us now from London this morning to talk about what we are hearing coming from the White House, as well as what we heard coming from the House of Commons this morning, when we heard Prime Minister Tony Blair discussing Iraq and the move now toward proving whether or not Iraq has fully complied with the U.N. demand for it to disclose everything that in its weapons program.

Garth Whitty, we thank you for taking time with us again this morning.

As you've seen in the recent hours, there's more information coming from both the British government and the U.S. government, saying that there were big omissions and problems with this declaration now that was made by Iraq, and now we're going to be seeing President Bush coming out on Friday, right after the U.N. Security Council gets its actually briefing from Hans Blix.

What do you make of that? Does President Bush coming out and speaking like this put more pressure on the inspectors there on the ground?

GARTH WHITTY, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Absolutely. I think it puts more pressure on all of the players in this drama that's unfolding in front of us, the inspectors certainly, and indeed Saddam Hussein and his regime.

HARRIS: In a positive way on the inspectors?

WHITTY: They are obviously under huge pressure and have been for sometime. Whether they see it as positive is hard to imagine, but the reality is that the only way a war will be prevented is by the inspectors being more robust than they have been able to be thus far, and demonstrating that there is nothing there or finding that which has been hidden.

HARRIS: Some official has been quoted this morning as saying that in the next phase, which is going to be taking place fairly soon, is going to be more robust. They'll be getting more information. We will have updated information. This is coming from an IAEA official, saying after the new year, we'll begin more intensive probing. Do we know what's happening, what's going to be different between now and after the new year?

WHITTY: I don't know. I can speculate that more information is coming to both the IAEA and UNMOVIC and from countries that have an interest and indeed have information that can be acted on. One of the problems, I think, that we're not going to get away from is the reality is that Iraq is a huge country. The regime has had a number of years to hide what they wish to hide, and there's a very limited number of inspectors available.

HARRIS: Now, let me ask you this, speaking as a former inspector here, as you know, there is a bit of a conflict here in the view from the White House and the U.N. weapons inspection team, this view of taking scientists out of the country and debriefing them there in the country or someplace else. Now, I have seen quotes from others who have been with the teams in the past, that said, that actually, in the past, they got more information from talking to Iraqi experts there on the ground and did not see a need to take them outside of the country. Do you agree with that? WHITTY: There certainly was information given in the past, but the circumstances were rather different. I think as we've discussed before, in 1991 when the inspection regime first started, there was cooperation from a number of highly placed Iraqis. With the passage of time, that cooperation was eroded; not entirely through Iraqi efforts, but also concessions were made by the United Nations that, with hindsight, probably shouldn't have been made.

I do see significant difficulty, in fact, in getting people out of the country, not the least of which problem is that unless they take their entire families, they will be hostage to whatever Saddam Hussein's regime wishes to do to their relatives back in Iraq.

HARRIS: Now with President Bush coming out and speaking before the U.N. gets a chance to evaluate this will report and this translation of the report that was turned over by Iraq, would you be concerned as someone from outside the country looking in here that perhaps that the administration here may be appearing to rush things by not allowing the U.N. to take this information and evaluate it fully and then make a decision based upon that evaluation?

WHITTY: Yes, I think that's entirely possible. In terms of maintaining international support, there would seem to be merit in using the good office of the U.N. to process all the information and actually be their conduit through which that information is passed on to the international community.

HARRIS: Garth Whitty, we thank you very much, as always, for the insight. Take care. We hope to talk with you fairly soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com