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American Morning

Priest Shooting

Aired December 18, 2002 - 08:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Justice served or justice denied? Dontee Stokes admitted shooting a priest and former mentor Maurice Blackwell, who allegedly sexually abused him for years, but Stokes was acquitted Monday of attempted murder, and prosecutors agreed to a deal that would allow Stokes, who was convicted on weapons charges, to serve no jail time. Stokes attorney told CNN, the prosecution's indifference to the abuse allegations is what led to the crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN BROWN, ATTY.: The rejection by the state's attorney's office, but not prosecuting Blackwell, the rejection of the church by returning him to that parish all played a role on what led up to the shooting on May 13th, and our whole pursuit throughout the trial was to hold these entities accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So is Dontee Stokes getting away with attempted murder? CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us from Washington.

Good morning, Jeffrey. How are you doing this morning?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Paula.

ZAHN: So the attorney went a step further, according to the "Baltimore Sun.," when Dontee Stokes lawyer argued that his client was not responsible for the shooting because he was having an out-of- body experience. Has that ever flown before?

TOOBIN: Well, they had psychiatric testimony for the defense, which said, essentially, this was temporary insanity. This was vigilante justice, and I think we have to recognize if you recognize from the Charles Bronson movies from the '70s, there is a lot about American's response to vigilante justice, especially in a situation as compelling as this.

But I don't think this is a very complicated case. Everybody knows what Stokes did, they just wanted to excuse it, and that's exactly what the jury did.

ZAHN: But this guy could have gone to prison just on the weapons charges alone.

TOOBIN: He could have, although these were really pretty minor charges. And remember, this was a big gun. This was a .357 magnum that this guy shot at the priest. He could have. But you know, there is so much sympathy at this moment, understandably so, for victim's abuse by priests, that the prosecution just basically threw up their hands, and said, we know when we're beat, and gave up on the case.

ZAHN: Let's make it clear, though, Maurice Blackwell, the priest, has never been charged or convicted of sexual abuse. Is this an ominous verdict for accused men like Paul Shandley, who's sitting it out on bail in Boston?

TOOBIN: I think it's extremely ominous. And remember what happened in the Stokes' case, Blackwell was called to testify, the victim, was called to testify, and he took the Fifth. The jury can be instructed all you want about don't draw any conclusions by someone taking the Fifth, but jurors are real people. If they see a priest taking the fifth about whether he abused the kid, you know they are going to conclude that he did it, especially when that is what they are being told by other witnesses.

ZAHN: Meanwhile, the defense is appealing the verdict, and they said there were problems with how the jury did its work. What are they referring to?

TOOBIN: The jury wrote a note at the end, saying, can we recommend leniency? When, again, it's so extraordinary, when you had a jury so much more on the jury's side. It takes a lot of moxie for the defense to appeal, considering how much they won in this case. Stokes is not going to prison. He shot this guy. Its undisputed, and yet the defense is still appealing. That shows their pretty confident about how this thing is going to work out.

ZAHN: There are also varying definitions of what justice is, and I want to quickly replay a small part of what the prosecutor had to say shortly after this verdict. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYLVESTER COX, MD. STATE ATTY.: Justice? I don't know if you can say justice was served in the sense that we have a gentleman who is still is injured, but the jury thought was that was justice, and that's justice in this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So there is a slight indefinition of justice here?

TOOBIN: You know, one of the reasons we have juries is that juries are the voice of the community, and there is a history in this country of jury nullification, of jurors taking a set of facts that looks pretty obvious, and putting sort of their own spin on it. I think there was just so much sympathy for Stokes here that it overrode the evidence.

I can certainly understand why the prosecutors brought this case. You can't have people taking justice into their own hands. The problem of innocent bystanders is certainly one that you want to think about. But the jury here did what I think a lot of people would do in a situation like this, but it is troubling when you think about the possibility of victims taking the law into their own hands.

ZAHN: And do you think the appeal could succeed?

TOOBIN: You know, it seems like sort of a longshot to me. The appeals court might recognize that, look, Stokes is not going to prison. What is there that the defense is really complaining about at this point?

ZAHN: So, Jeff, do you know what we are doing later on this morning?

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 18, 2002 - 08:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Justice served or justice denied? Dontee Stokes admitted shooting a priest and former mentor Maurice Blackwell, who allegedly sexually abused him for years, but Stokes was acquitted Monday of attempted murder, and prosecutors agreed to a deal that would allow Stokes, who was convicted on weapons charges, to serve no jail time. Stokes attorney told CNN, the prosecution's indifference to the abuse allegations is what led to the crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN BROWN, ATTY.: The rejection by the state's attorney's office, but not prosecuting Blackwell, the rejection of the church by returning him to that parish all played a role on what led up to the shooting on May 13th, and our whole pursuit throughout the trial was to hold these entities accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So is Dontee Stokes getting away with attempted murder? CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us from Washington.

Good morning, Jeffrey. How are you doing this morning?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Paula.

ZAHN: So the attorney went a step further, according to the "Baltimore Sun.," when Dontee Stokes lawyer argued that his client was not responsible for the shooting because he was having an out-of- body experience. Has that ever flown before?

TOOBIN: Well, they had psychiatric testimony for the defense, which said, essentially, this was temporary insanity. This was vigilante justice, and I think we have to recognize if you recognize from the Charles Bronson movies from the '70s, there is a lot about American's response to vigilante justice, especially in a situation as compelling as this.

But I don't think this is a very complicated case. Everybody knows what Stokes did, they just wanted to excuse it, and that's exactly what the jury did.

ZAHN: But this guy could have gone to prison just on the weapons charges alone.

TOOBIN: He could have, although these were really pretty minor charges. And remember, this was a big gun. This was a .357 magnum that this guy shot at the priest. He could have. But you know, there is so much sympathy at this moment, understandably so, for victim's abuse by priests, that the prosecution just basically threw up their hands, and said, we know when we're beat, and gave up on the case.

ZAHN: Let's make it clear, though, Maurice Blackwell, the priest, has never been charged or convicted of sexual abuse. Is this an ominous verdict for accused men like Paul Shandley, who's sitting it out on bail in Boston?

TOOBIN: I think it's extremely ominous. And remember what happened in the Stokes' case, Blackwell was called to testify, the victim, was called to testify, and he took the Fifth. The jury can be instructed all you want about don't draw any conclusions by someone taking the Fifth, but jurors are real people. If they see a priest taking the fifth about whether he abused the kid, you know they are going to conclude that he did it, especially when that is what they are being told by other witnesses.

ZAHN: Meanwhile, the defense is appealing the verdict, and they said there were problems with how the jury did its work. What are they referring to?

TOOBIN: The jury wrote a note at the end, saying, can we recommend leniency? When, again, it's so extraordinary, when you had a jury so much more on the jury's side. It takes a lot of moxie for the defense to appeal, considering how much they won in this case. Stokes is not going to prison. He shot this guy. Its undisputed, and yet the defense is still appealing. That shows their pretty confident about how this thing is going to work out.

ZAHN: There are also varying definitions of what justice is, and I want to quickly replay a small part of what the prosecutor had to say shortly after this verdict. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYLVESTER COX, MD. STATE ATTY.: Justice? I don't know if you can say justice was served in the sense that we have a gentleman who is still is injured, but the jury thought was that was justice, and that's justice in this case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So there is a slight indefinition of justice here?

TOOBIN: You know, one of the reasons we have juries is that juries are the voice of the community, and there is a history in this country of jury nullification, of jurors taking a set of facts that looks pretty obvious, and putting sort of their own spin on it. I think there was just so much sympathy for Stokes here that it overrode the evidence.

I can certainly understand why the prosecutors brought this case. You can't have people taking justice into their own hands. The problem of innocent bystanders is certainly one that you want to think about. But the jury here did what I think a lot of people would do in a situation like this, but it is troubling when you think about the possibility of victims taking the law into their own hands.

ZAHN: And do you think the appeal could succeed?

TOOBIN: You know, it seems like sort of a longshot to me. The appeals court might recognize that, look, Stokes is not going to prison. What is there that the defense is really complaining about at this point?

ZAHN: So, Jeff, do you know what we are doing later on this morning?

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com