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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Trent Lott Steps Down; Illinois Governor Considers Death Penalty Pardons
Aired December 20, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: For the first time in U.S. history, controversy forces the Senate leader out of power.
ANNOUNCER: Trent Lott is out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: When, for whatever reason, a controversy caused your ability to lead -- and becomes bigger than the mission of service, then it was probably the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Did he save his career by saving down?
Plus: From Andy Rooney to John Rocker, those who have survived and others who didn't because of their loose lips.
An Internet sleuth tracks down an online con man. Computer users ban together to stop crime.
And our "Person of the Day," his vision is Hobbit-forming.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight: a first in U.S. history and maybe a Frist as well.
By CNN's count, Tennessee Senator Bill Frist has enough votes among his Republican colleagues to become the next Senate majority leader. It was shortly after Senator Frist announced his interest in the job that embattled Senator Trent Lott of Mississippi released a statement saying that he will in fact step down from the leadership post.
Lott said, quote: "In the interest of pursuing the best possible agenda for the future of our country, I will not seek to remain as majority leader of the United States Senate for the 108th Congress, effective January 6, 2003. To all those who offered me their friendship, support and prayers, I will be eternally grateful. I will continue to serve the people of Mississippi in the United States Senate."
In other words, Lott will still be the senior senator from Mississippi, the state he said this month was proud to have voted for Strom Thurmond when he ran for president in 1948. Lott's remarks about Thurmond's campaign, which was strongly segregationist, sparked the firestorm that led to Lott stepping down today.
Lott's words certainly triggered an avalanche, but it was by no means the first time a politician or other famous person put his famous foot in his famous mouth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They delivered. They delivered 21.5 percent interest rates.
CHUNG (voice-over): For George Bush the father, the posterior seemed to be his wrongful word of choice. Referring to a debate with his vice presidential opponent, Geraldine Ferraro, he didn't think anyone was listening when he said he had -- quote -- "kicked a little ass last night."
Apparently, his son has a penchant for that part of the body, too. Unaware that a microphone was inches from his mouth, George W. said this of a "New York Times" reporter.
GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's Adam Clymer, a major league asshole.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, yes, he is, big time.
CHUNG: But it didn't seem to hurt him.
BUSH: So help me God.
CHUNG: Andy Rooney took a hit when he said this about women sideline reporters.
ANDY ROONEY, "60 MINUTES": The only thing that really bugs me about television's coverage is those damn women they have down on the sideline who don't know what the hell they're talking about. I mean, I'm not a sexist person. But a woman has no business being down there trying to make some comment about a football game.
CHUNG: Even though he got tackled, he continues to run with his mouth on "60 Minutes."
Not everyone is so lucky. John Rocker struck out when he told "Sports Illustrated" how he really feels about New York City: "Imagine having to take the No. 7 train to the ballpark, looking like you're riding through Beirut next to some kid with purple hair, next to some queer with AIDS, right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time, right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. It's depressing." Rocker was eventually traded by his team, the Atlanta Braves. And his pitching career has foundered ever since. Sometimes entertainment and politics overlap. Speaking about the September 11 attacks, late-night talk show host Bill Maher said...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "POLITICALLY INCORRECT")
BILL MAHER, HOST: We have been the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away, that's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, not cowardly. You're right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: His politically incorrect words put his show, "Politically Incorrect," off the air.
So, what's the solution to public gaffes? Maybe it's to take a page from Dan Quayle. He might not have been able to spell potato.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN QUAYLE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There you go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: But he didn't let it get him down.
QUAYLE: If that's my biggest political mistake, I'm in pretty good shape.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Quayle, however, never tried to run for public office again.
And it's unclear what Senator Lott's political future holds. After all, Washington and America overall have a mixed history when it comes to famous figures, politicians or otherwise, trying to redeem themselves.
And few journalists know that better than our guests tonight. Journalist Carl Bernstein was co-author of "All the President's Men." And columnist Sally Quinn is the author of "The Party."
Thank you both for being with us.
Carl, now, this is one of those feeding-frenzy stories. And it's not that it had sex, which is usually a requirement for these types of Capitol Hill stories. And it's not that it had all the other elements. It did have deal-making. It was the rise and fall of a powerful man. So, why did it grip us and why couldn't Lott free himself from it?
CARL BERNSTEIN, CO-AUTHOR, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN": There's a tremendous element of hypocrisy here. It's a story about Washington as well as Lott's hypocrisy. And it's a story about racism. First of all, everybody in Washington knows that Trent Lott has had a quasi- racist history, to put it nicely, for years.
CHUNG: That really wasn't even that nice, Carl. Go ahead.
BERNSTEIN: It didn't become a big story until he uttered these truly offensive words at Strom Thurmond's birthday party. And then a Web columnist but two and two together and went back and looked at the same record that everybody in Washington has known about for years. This story should have been done long ago. That's the truth.
CHUNG: All right. But because it came out this way, Lott was slowly twisting in the wind, as you could see, I mean, over a period of several days. And then he just kept sinking.
Sally, did you see Trent Lott at any time during the past week?
SALLY QUINN, AUTHOR, "THE PARTY": Yes. And, Connie, I think this is just the perfect example of a true Washington minuet.
You know, this story happened about two weeks ago. And, on Saturday, exactly two weeks tomorrow, there was a party in Washington. "The Washington Post" had a story which basically told people what Strom Thurmond stood for in 1948. And I think most of the people covering that Strom Thurmond birthday party had not been born in 1948 and didn't know what the Dixiecrats were.
So, I ran into him that night at a party. And, at that point, he was...
CHUNG: You ran into Trent Lott?
QUINN: Yes. And I talked to him at great length about Strom Thurmond. And he was telling Strom Thurmond stories. And he was very jolly and very friendly, very -- he had no...
CHUNG: And at which stage was this, Sally, in terms of...
QUINN: This was...
CHUNG: Yes, go ahead.
QUINN: This was three or four days after Strom's birthday party.
CHUNG: Right.
QUINN: And it was the day that "The Washington Post" had a story about the remarks that Trent Lott had made.
CHUNG: Right. But the firestorm had not brewed yet.
QUINN: No.
As I'm saying, that night, Saturday night, he was in fine form, feeling very confident, laughing, joking. However, I knew it was over, because everybody in that party except for Strom Thurmond was saying: This is it. It's over.
CHUNG: Oh, Sally. You did not know already that it was over.
QUINN: Because everybody in the room was saying: Oh, my God, this is -- he can't say this and still be majority leader. But they weren't saying it to him. And so he was acting as though nothing had happened. And everybody in the room was going, can you believe that he said this? You can't be majority leader and say something like that.
Well, then it was only a matter of minutes before the White House started leaking. And they were leaking, leaking, leaking all week that, he's got to go, he's got to go. And, of course, when he was calling the White House -- and Ari Fleischer was saying, he's fine, he's fine, the president wants him to stay -- and, of course, behind his back, they were leaking like crazy -- he would call the White House and they would say: No, no, no, we're not leaking. We're not leaking.
But everyone knew they were leaking.
CHUNG: Right. It is true.
QUINN: And not only were they leaking and they wanted him out, but they were leaking it that they wanted Bill Frist in.
CHUNG: Yes.
Carl, the White House just played everybody like a puppet in this thing, don't you think?
BERNSTEIN: Well, they're very good at this.
But, you know, it's very important not to divorce this story from the Southern strategy of the Republican Party, which is what has made the Republicans a dominant party since Richard Nixon initiated the Southern strategy, which is an appeal to Southern whites based on, really, race.
You have to look at George Bush Sr's Willie Horton ads in the last campaign. You have to look at the president, who I don't think for a moment wants anything but what he says, which is an open Republican Party in which blacks are welcome. At the same time, remember that, during the primaries, when it looked like John McCain might be the nominee, George Bush, our president, went to Bob Jones University and played the race card.
The Republican Party has been doing this now for 25 years. Maybe now they will get out of this truly ugly business of cada voce (ph) racism.
CHUNG: Well, what Sally was basically saying was that Trent Lott didn't get it at that party, right? Well, do you think he ever got
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: What? QUINN: Well, I was also going to say that the White House clearly did not openly say that they wanted Trent Lott out because of what Carl just said, because they still have a huge constituency in the South.
And so they didn't want alienate that constituency by saying that they wanted Trent Lott out. They had to do it behind the scenes.
CHUNG: Well, didn't the White House play this perfectly, Sally?
QUINN: Perfectly.
BERNSTEIN: Perfectly.
CHUNG: Yes.
QUINN: Perfectly.
BERNSTEIN: They've never liked Lott that much in the first place.
QUINN: But nobody likes him that much.
BERNSTEIN: That's right.
QUINN: The Democrats don't like him and the Republicans don't like him. So no one is crying here. I mean, this is not a tragedy except for Trent Lott. It's a very sad story for him.
CHUNG: It is indeed.
And, basically, the man that the White House wants, Frist, is going to get in and just -- but, maybe 30 seconds ago, it looked like someone else was going to be the top person. But, ultimately, the man that the White House wants in that position is going to get it.
BERNSTEIN: Sure. And they're very happy to see Lott go. They want a real conservative, which sometimes they think, of all things, Lott is not.
The amazing thing here, though, was to see Trent Lott go on Black Entertainment Television and come out for affirmative action. Now, you've got to think what this might do if he were still majority leader. And then, all of a sudden, the Republican Party was for affirmative action and all these judgeships came up and affirmative action became one of the litmus tests. The whole thing is so hypocritical and hilarious in a way.
CHUNG: Sally, you have 10 seconds.
QUINN: OK.
Well, the White House clearly was in a bind about the whole affirmative action situation, because, if Trent Lott remained, they would have to abandon all their goals of trying to slow down affirmative action. And that was never going to work. CHUNG: All right, Carl Bernstein, Sally Quinn, thank you so much for being with us. I feel like I'm back in Washington. In just these last few moments, I was breathing the air, or the hot air in Washington.
BERNSTEIN: There's a lot of it there.
CHUNG: Yes. Thank you.
Elsewhere in Washington today, the president publicly focused on foreign policy. As expected, he condemned the report Iraq filed earlier this month, which the U.N. had demanded, asking Iraq to account for all of its programs of weapons of mass destruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G.W. BUSH: The world spoke clearly that we expect Mr. Saddam Hussein to disarm. Yesterday's document was not encouraging. We expected him to show that he would disarm. And, as the secretary of state said, it's a long way from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: President Bush has repeatedly threatened the use of force to make Saddam Hussein disarm. And, tonight, one of America's closest allies is preparing for the possibility of war with Iraq.
And that's just the start of our look at "The World in: 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Britain prepares for war. Prime Minister Tony Blair tells troops to ready for action against Iraq if Saddam Hussein fails to comply with U.N. demands to disarm.
In Pakistan, demonstrators rally against the arrests yesterday of nine family members suspected of having links with al Qaeda. Four of the suspects have since been released.
Peace plans put off: In Washington, representatives of the U.S., Russia, U.N., and EU quartet delay release of a road map for Middle East peace until after the Israeli elections next month.
Palestinian postponement: Yasser Arafat will decide this weekend whether to delay parliamentary elections set for January 20 until after Israeli forces withdraw from Palestinian towns.
More bloodshed in Gaza: Two Palestinians and an Israeli rabbi are killed, while Israel announces it will not pull troops from Bethlehem during the Christmas holiday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next: a computer user ripped off by an Internet con man, how a high-tech posse brought the thief to justice -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: If you want to catch a crook on the Internet, you need a new breed of detective, a Sherlock home page, if you will. And you're about to meet him. His name is Jason Eric Smith.
When he sold a Macintosh PowerBook online and the check bounced, he reached out through the Internet and turned a bunch of strangers into his own Dr. Watsons to catch a thief. It's an amazing story.
And we have got Eric with us from New Orleans to tell us about it.
Good evening. Nice to have you with us.
JASON ERIC SMITH, COLLEGE STUDENT: Thank you.
CHUNG: Eric, you're a sophomore at the University of New Orleans. And, to make a little extra money, you were buying used computers and selling them on eBay. But then, in this particular instance, you were trying to sell your old computer. What happened?
SMITH: Well, I had bought the computer for myself kind of as an early Christmas present, so I could take notes and complete some projects at school.
It's a little bit expensive and much for me. And so I decided that I could sell the computer and buy something a little cheaper and do some things for the holidays with the extra money. So, I put the computer up on eBay. And the next day, I got an e-mail from a gentleman in Chicago who said he'd like to buy the computer as a birthday present for his son at Northwestern.
So, I gave him a call and we talked about the details. And the next day, I FedExed the computer off to him COD.
CHUNG: And so, did he write a check and send that to you?
SMITH: Well, what I actually got back was a cashier's check through FedEx, because it was sent COD. So, I got the cashier's check back, put it my bank and took some money out to pay my rent and do some other things for the holidays, and went off for Thanksgiving.
When I came back from Thanksgiving on Friday, I had a message on my machine from my bank, saying the check had been returned.
CHUNG: Uh-oh. So, did you think you were scammed? Right away, did you know?
SMITH: I didn't know. The bank manager actually told me that it was possible that that check had just been sent to the wrong bank or any number of issues, but that she wouldn't really know what was wrong until the following Monday.
CHUNG: And, on the following Monday, you realized? SMITH: Well, over the weekend, I had done a little investigating and I'd gone ahead and called the gentleman back. And the person who picked up the phone sounded just like him, but said it wasn't him. It was his cousin Tony and that the person I was wanting to talk to actually was out of town.
CHUNG: Oh, yes. Yes, right, right.
So, eventually, you did realize that you were scammed. So you went to the police. You went to the FBI. You went to the Secret Service. And they wouldn't help you.
SMITH: No, they wouldn't.
Chicago P.D. said they'd be able to get back to me in two weeks or so. And the FBI and the Secret Service both said it just wasn't enough money to be worried about.
CHUNG: All right, so, you went to loyal Macintosh users. Is that right?
SMITH: Yes. I put up kind of a plea for help on a couple of Macintosh Web sites: Macinin (ph), Mac Rumors, and O'Grady's PowerPage.
CHUNG: And you became the lead crime investigator, the CSI man, right?
SMITH: More or less, yes.
I got a lot of help and a lot of support from them. They gave me some good leads on other resources I could use to find out who this person actually was. And I actually finally did find their real address and their real phone number, gave them a call up at that. And they still just weren't interested in cooperating. So...
CHUNG: So, you set up a sting operation. This is amazing. I can't believe you did all this.
All right. And, meanwhile, were you still going to class?
SMITH: Yes, I was. I was having kind of a hard time getting there.
CHUNG: Yes. And you weren't doing your work, right?
So, all right, you go and set up a sting operation.
SMITH: Yes.
I used my girlfriend's eBay account to set up an identical auction almost for the same kind of computer. I just changed the location to Nashville, Tennessee and changed the name. And about three hours later almost, I got an identical e-mail, worded exactly the same. Just, the only difference this time was that you had a different name and a different phone number on it. CHUNG: So, you know you had your man.
SMITH: I knew I did. I e-mailed him back, said, hey, I'd love to send you this one. Just give me the address.
CHUNG: And he did?
SMITH: He did. He sent me back a new address this time. After I did some mapping and looked it up, it turned out that it was actually outside of Chicago. And I hoped that it was a different police force. So, I looked it up on Google. It ended up the dress was in Markham, Illinois, which is about 15 miles outside of Chicago.
CHUNG: So, did you get a cop to help you?
SMITH: I called the Markham Police Department. And, within about 90 seconds, I was talking to Sergeant Jim Knapp, who was more than happy to help in any way he could, once I told him my story.
CHUNG: All right, now, who dressed up in a FedEx costume?
SMITH: Sergeant Knapp did. He actually...
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: FedEx loaned him a truck. And he had the uniform ready. And he actually made the delivery of the second computer to the guy dressed up as a FedEx delivery man.
CHUNG: And did he nab him?
SMITH: He nabbed him right then and there.
CHUNG: And what did he find in the house?
SMITH: He actually had about $10,000 in cashier's checks on him, waiting for other deliveries from other unsuspecting people the same day. He also had, I think, some fake identification and various other forged documents.
CHUNG: Now, you're a history teacher. This guy is history, right?
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Well, I hope so. I'm trying to make sure that he stays history.
CHUNG: So, you can't be a history teacher anymore, Eric. You have to become a detective.
SMITH: Oh, I'd much rather be a detective about history. That's much more interesting to me.
CHUNG: Oh, really?
SMITH: Yes.
CHUNG: Oh, Eric, I've got to make you change your mind. I mean, I think you found your home, your calling.
SMITH: Oh, I don't think so. I still -- I'd much rather -- I think I'd feel much more comfortable in a classroom.
CHUNG: All right. All right. And your parents probably agree with you.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: And remind me never to get on your bad side.
Still ahead: He was born just in time for the holidays. So, why is this new baby such a bittersweet gift?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: more than 100 people condemned to death for crimes they never committed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK BLOODSWORTH, FORMER DEATH ROW INMATE: Innocent people are on death row and will be executed if we don't do something about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: One man tells his story -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: There's a deadline looming in Illinois that could literally mean life or death for dozens of men.
Illinois Governor George Ryan, who only has a few more weeks in office, is considering what to do about men on death row. The state has seen several former death row prisoners go free after being exonerated. Governor Ryan pardoned two exonerated men just yesterday. And you're about to meet one of them.
But, as CNN's Jeff Flock reports, there are two sides to his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like a political campaign, with cheering crowds, debates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This man is an evil devil.
FLOCK: Campaign buttons, posters, speeches.
BLOODSWORTH: We implore you to heed the lessons of our ordeals. FLOCK: And it's a campaign that will come down to one vote: Illinois Governor George Ryan's.
GOV. GEORGE RYAN (R), ILLINOIS: Governors have the last word. It's an awesome responsibility.
FLOCK: Ryan, who leaves office in January, is thinking about commuting to life in prison the sentences of 160 Illinois death row inmates.
Since the '70s, 13 people made it all the way to death row here before authorities figured out that they were wrongfully convicted and set them free. This one, Anthony Porter, in February 1999, led conservative Republican death penalty backer Ryan to halt executions and consider commutations. The campaign by inmates trying to get him to do it and victims' families begging him not to has been fierce.
(on camera): It is a campaign with both sides battling now for months for the public opinion edge. A group of wrongly convicted death row inmates from across the country are now hand-carrying a letter from Stateville Prison to Governor Ryan's office.
(voice-over): They called it dead men walking, designed to counter dramatic public clemency hearings with tearful testimony from victims' families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wake up one morning and your whole life is totally changed.
FLOCK: Dozens testified, like Rebecca Ramos, who begged the clemency board not to spare the life of the man convicted of murdering her daughter. Her son told us he's worried Ryan will commute death sentences to leave a legacy.
THOMAS RAMOS JR., VICTIM'S BROTHER: They're not going to name any building after him. They're not going to name any highway after him.
FLOCK: To allay fears, Ryan held a closed-door meeting with victims' families, many of them wearing buttons with pictures of their murdered loved ones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My message to the governor is to keep the death penalty.
BLOODSWORTH: My name is Kirk Bloodsworth.
FLOCK: Now comes the final push.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Carl Olson (ph).
FLOCK: Including the largest gathering of exonerated death row inmates in history at Northwestern University, 36 of the 102 people in the U.S. since the 1970s condemned to death, later exonerated based on DNA, confessions, or other new evidence.
BLOODSWORTH: Innocent people are on death row and will be executed if we don't do something about it.
FLOCK: How will the governor vote?
RYAN: This morning, I pardoned Paula Gray, based on innocence.
FLOCK: Ryan has already pardoned several people who had been convicted of lesser crimes. He says he'll make a decision on the death row inmates before he leaves office January 13.
I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, in Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: One of the men pardoned yesterday, Gary Gauger, was convicted in 1994 of killing his parents. He served three years before his release by a state appeals court. Gary Gauger is joining us now.
Mr. Gauger, thank you for being with us. Good evening.
GARY GAUGER, FORMER DEATH ROW INMATE: Glad to be here.
CHUNG: Mr. Gauger, I know you've been out of prison for six years. But this had to have been terrific news for you. What has this pardon meant to you personally?
GAUGER: Oh, this pardon is very important for me.
When we appeared before the prison review board for my pardon a month and a half ago, the prosecution is still trying to link me to the crime. They took every lie, innuendo, and rumor they'd manufactured over the last nine years, presented them as fact to the prison review board. If I'd have been on trial at that point and those were closing arguments, I very easily could have been convicted again.
Two men were convicted of killing my parents. They still could face the death penalty in Illinois. And I wouldn't put it past these guys to threaten them with the death sentence to turn witness against me and manufacture facts, saying that I in fact was part of the crime.
CHUNG: Mr. Gauger, tell us about that particular day. You found your father's body and you called the police. But then what happened?
GAUGER: My mother, at this point, was missing. My father was dead. I thought he had had a heart attack or a stroke, fallen and hit his head.
The police found my mother's body an hour later locked in a small trailer in front of the house. I was immediately arrested, illegally -- the police had no reason to arrest me -- transported to the McHenry County Jail and questioned for 18 hours, after which the police, three senior officers conspired and concocted a confession. I never did confess to the crime.
Two hours later, I was charged with the crime. The trial was held six months later. No physical evidence ever tied me to the crime. Nothing was written down or signed at the interrogation. No motive was ever established. By the time we went to trial, we had three senior officers who perjured themselves approximately 150 times, saying I had confessed after an 18-hour interrogation where I was voluntarily at the police station.
They claimed I wasn't even under arrest, even though I was in a prison uniform at the time. And their testimony was collaborated by a jailhouse snitch, who said I had confessed to him on two separate occasions.
CHUNG: I see. And you ended up spending three years in prison.
GAUGER: That's correct.
CHUNG: Before your conviction was overturned.
Now, those three years and everything that you went through, what did that do to your relationship with your family?
GAUGER: I have very little family left.
I have a brother and sister. I'm estranged with my children, from my children. They're living in Austin, Texas. My brother, after about a month and a half after my arrest, decided that I was guilty, for reasons I've never been able to figure out. He's since come around and now he realized that I had nothing to do with my parents' killings.
But he's still -- he still thinks I was involved in some way, but he doesn't -- I think it's as close to an apology as I'll get from him. My twin sister, on the other hand, who was my strongest supporter since my arrest, if anything, we're closer now than we ever were.
CHUNG: And your own children, sir?
GAUGER: I'm sorry. What?
CHUNG: Your own children?
GAUGER: My own children. I am estranged from my own children, through no fault of their own, really.
CHUNG: So, it's been very difficult for you, I can well imagine. What happens to you next? Do you think that you can get over feeling bitter or angry about what happened to you?
GAUGER: Bitter or angry isn't even close to what's happening to me.
I had a needs assessment at an anti-death penalty convention in Chicago here last week. I've been diagnosed now as being post- traumatic stress syndrome. I suffer physical symptoms. I forgot how to drive my truck. I went to see a psychiatrist, and the next month, I couldn't drive my truck properly. It's just -- I suffer physical symptoms.
Getting over it? You can't get over this. There was a lady said they wanted to -- one of the witnesses that you interviewed about -- was a victim of violent crime -- said that she felt it was her right to see the man that took her loved ones' lives be put to death, hoping she'd get over it. You won't get over it, no. I don't expect to get over it.
When your life is irrevocably changed, like mine was or hers was, the best you can do is try to turn it around and make something positive about it.
CHUNG: All right, Gary Gauger, thank you.
Our questions about Gary Gauger's allegations were referred to the state attorney's office. Officials there said his allegations are not true. The investigation into the murder of Gauger's parents continues. Gauger has filed a civil rights suit, which was dismissed in October. But he's filed an appeal.
When we come back: A baby arrives in time for the holidays. But why is this birth a heartbreaking occasion?
Stay with us.
Still ahead: Who will be our "Person of the Day"?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We're about to show you one of the most bittersweet stories I've seen in quite some time.
At a time of year when families are coming together, one family that was ripped apart has just gotten a special new member.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): It was supposed to be one of the happiest moments for a husband and wife: the birth of a child. But, for one family, it was joyful and tragic at the same time.
MICHELLE PHILLIPS, SISTER OF ANNETTE CLARK: He's so wonderful. And we can't help but celebrate his birth. But it's very bittersweet, because he'll never know his dad and we're not sure how his mom's going to be.
CHUNG: Thirty-four-year-old Annette Clark was only 10 weeks pregnant driving in a truck when authorities say a drunk driver slammed into it, killing her 38-year-old husband, Glenn (ph), and leaving Annette Clark in a coma.
Five months later, with Annette still comatose, she gave birth to a bouncing baby boy, Michael Anthony Clark. It was the name Annette and Glenn had told the family they had chosen for their baby. Annette's sister Michelle:
PHILLIPS: He is a miracle, that he was able to be delivered and be so healthy.
CHUNG: Annette's mother says the family is devastated by the accident that spared the baby, but took so much from them.
BEV MILLER, MOTHER OF ANNETTE CLARK: We have an orphan child. We have a son-in-law that's dead. And we have our daughter, who we're not sure recognizes us or anything, because of a drunk.
CHUNG: Now the family says they need just one more miracle.
PHILLIPS: I tell her that she needs to come back to us so that she can enjoy him and get to know him and love him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Now Michael Anthony is being raised by his aunt and uncle. And the doctor who performed this extraordinary delivery, Allegheny General Hospital's Dr. Jennifer Celebrezze joins us now from Pittsburgh.
Thank you for being with us, Dr. Celebrezze.
DR. JENNIFER CELEBREZZE, ALLEGHENY GENERAL HOSPITAL: Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: Thank you.
I know you keep in touch with the family. How is the mom, Annette?
CELEBREZZE: Mom is still in a persistent vegetative state, or coma. Since her delivery, she stayed in the hospital about a week after to recuperate and then was transferred out to an extended care facility.
CHUNG: And Michael is what, 7 pounds now? How is he doing?
CELEBREZZE: He's 7 pounds. I got to see him this past Tuesday. And he's doing wonderfully.
CHUNG: Isn't that great?
CELEBREZZE: A very happy baby.
CHUNG: He's beautiful.
CELEBREZZE: He's very beautiful.
CHUNG: Tell us, what was it like in the delivery room?
CELEBREZZE: I don't think there was a dry eye in the delivery room. It was a sad story from the beginning, when we first heard about Annette and were consulted on her in the emergency room after the trauma. And then in the delivery room, her mother and sister were both there and got to see Michael be born. He has red hair, just like his mom.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Now, it had to be incredibly challenging, this medical feat of delivering from a comatose woman. Were there risks? Were there dangers?
CELEBREZZE: It's been a very difficult situation, because she was 10 to 11 weeks pregnant when this all happened.
We brought her -- she had spent time in an extended care facility after the accident. And then, at 24 weeks, we brought her back to Allegheny General, because that's the point in time in a pregnancy where, if the baby would need to be delivered, that he would most likely survive. And we kept her in our high-risk unit then for approximately 10 weeks, caring for Annette, caring for her through many infections, feeding, as well as having a shunt placed in her head, and then finally delivered her at 34 weeks.
CHUNG: That is so amazing, that she was only 10 weeks pregnant and doctors were able to nurture her along. Don't you find it really extraordinary?
CELEBREZZE: I think it was a very heroic effort by the whole team of physicians taking care of her and especially our nurses, who just took wonderful care, making sure that she was turned appropriately, wasn't getting bed sores, the family as well, bringing pictures and playing music and just letting her know that there were people around her, and showing her pictures when we would do ultrasounds of the baby, and just letting her know that we were there.
CHUNG: And, actually, you were exercising her as well, weren't you?
CELEBREZZE: Yes. We had physical therapists trying to move her legs and her arms to keep her joints limber and keep her from getting contractures.
CHUNG: How is Annette now? Is she any different from before?
CELEBREZZE: After talking to Bev, her mom, on this past Tuesday, they've stated that, when they've seen her since the delivery that, to them, she seems a little bit more alert, but that she still really isn't responding to any questions or asking them for her to squeeze their hand. So, she's still in the same condition.
CHUNG: Uh-huh. And when you talk to the family, does she have any kind of positive prognosis?
CELEBREZZE: It's hard to say in conditions such as this, since she's been in this state since the 10-week mark, what her prognosis will be.
CHUNG: Well, it's just so extraordinary. I'm sure you took this home with you, this entire experience. And it has to make you feel so good that this baby was brought out alive and healthy.
CELEBREZZE: Mm-hmm.
CHUNG: No problems, no physical problems with Michael?
CELEBREZZE: He's great. He came out 5 pounds, 12 ounces. And he's now about 7 pounds this past Tuesday. And he's just doing wonderfully.
CHUNG: How can he have weighed 5 pounds, 7 ounces? I mean, it's just amazing that he wasn't a tiny little thing.
CELEBREZZE: Annette, her body responded to the pregnancy. And we made sure she had adequate nutrition. And he just grew like he should.
CHUNG: Dr. Celebrezze, thanks so much for being with us.
CELEBREZZE: Thank you.
CHUNG: The driver of the car, Jennifer Dawn Langston (ph), was charged with vehicular homicide, manslaughter, and other charges at a preliminary hearing in late October.
And still ahead: a mystery surrounding Dr. Laura.
Plus: Who did "People" magazine pick for its most intriguing people of the year issue?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: A mystery surrounding radio talk show host Dr. Laura Schlessinger. She has confirmed that the decaying body of a murdered woman found Monday is her mother. The body of Yolanda Schlessinger was found in her Beverly Hills apartment after she hadn't been heard from for several weeks. Police have not said how she was killed.
In a statement, her famous daughter said, in part, "She died as she chose to live: alone and isolated" -- unquote. And Dr. Laura added that she was "horrified" and "so sad" to learn of the circumstances.
We put intriguing people into every night's edition of "Snapshot." But, tonight, we start off with "People" magazine's look at the people they consider the most intriguing of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): What do J.Lo, George Clooney, Eminem, and even the Osbournes have in common? They all made big news this year and are all part of "People" magazine's most intriguing people of 2002.
Sainthood IS a big step closer for Mother Teresa. Pope John Paul approved a miracle attributed to her. A second miracle makes her eligible for sainthood.
What a Christmas present: a woman giving a kidney to her husband after a rare disease damaged his kidneys.
A whole lot of bull on the loose in North Carolina: The 600- pound bull escaped months ago from a farm near Raleigh. He's been spotted a few times, even shot with a tranquilizer dart, but so far avoided capture.
A sweet delight in Germany: The town of Rostock has been recreated in gingerbread form. It took bakers and builders more than 2,500 hours to complete the project.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: When we come back: how our "Person of the Day" turned his vision of a medieval past into an inspiration for 21st century America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Our "Person of the Day" tonight: a man whose vision of a mythical past became a compelling vision for America today. JRR Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" inspired this week's big new movie and inspired moviegoers to shell out a record $26 million for a December opening.
The second film of the classic literary trilogy originally raised concerns that the title "Two Towers" would be mistaken for a reference to September 11. Instead, Tolkien's vision of a coalition of good defending the world against undeniable evil has resonated with audiences yearning for good to triumph.
Tolkien was responding to the horrors he saw on the front lines of World War I. His creation of a story that speaks to the horrors we have seen in our time, three decades after his death, makes JRR Tolkien our "Person of the Day."
And while we're on people, please join me this Sunday for a special program, CNN special: "TIME Person of the Year." We'll find out who the person is and how the magazine's editors made their choice. That's this Sunday at 10:00 a.m. Eastern here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: And now for some of your e-mails.
Among those we got about Dontee Stokes, who was acquitted of attempted murder after shooting a priest he says molested him, Debi from South Dakota wrote: "As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I'm deeply disturbed by the innocent verdict in the case of Dontee Stokes. Suffering abuse does not give the survivor the right to inflict violence on their perpetrator or anyone else who may have been involved. This is a dangerous and injust decision. It sends the wrong message to both the perpetrators and the victims of violence."
On Trent Lott, Amanda in Jacksonville, Alabama, writes: "Please explain to me why Trent Lott's remarks, in which neither race nor segregation was mentioned, to an old man celebrating his 100th birthday is the crime of the decade, but Spike Lee can get on television to millions and brand Senator Lott a card-carrying racist with a white sheet somewhere in his closet, and that's humorous rather than slanderous. Is this a double standard or racism in reverse?"
Carol of Egg Harbor, New Jersey, wrote about the Wal-Mart employees who gave police a mom's pictures of her partially clothed 3- year-old daughter: "To think that an untrained Wal-Mart employee examines each photo and makes a determination to report a customer to authorities leaves me shivering. What's next, Mr. Ashcroft?"
And speaking of the war on terror, Sean Penn's visit to Iraq got mostly bad reviews. An e-mail from Austin, Texas, asks Penn: "If we had started trying to eliminate the Taliban prior to 9/11, would you have gone there, undermining our efforts the way you are now?"
And weighing in on Penn's side is Steve from Toronto: "Sean Penn never said Iraq was wonderful. I believe the point of his visit was to help give Iraq a face, one besides the evil Saddam face you put on a country with wonderful people."
Finally, on the battle for the Barry Bonds baseball, a judge ordered the guy who grabbed it and lost it under a pile-on to share it with the guy who ended up with it. Pamela of Basking Ridge, New Jersey, writes: "As a teacher, if a schoolyard incident occurred similar to the ballpark controversy, it's perfectly clear the person who caught the ball should have the ownership."
On Monday: a look at some powerful segments on how to keep our kids safe when you send them back to school after the holidays. Plus: my talk with both Olympic gold medal skating teams, the Canadians and the Russians, side by side.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Bob Jones of Bob Jones University on Trent Lott and a lot more.
Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and have a great weekend.
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