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American Morning

What's in Store for Lott's Successor?

Aired December 23, 2002 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Trent Lott's probable replacement, Tennessee Senator Bill Frist, is expected to become the new Republican majority leader later this afternoon. Meanwhile, some Republicans and Democrats are using Lott's resignation to lob some partisan political broadsides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: If anyone thinks that one person stepping down from a leadership position cleanses the Republican Party of their constant exploitation of race, then I think you're naive.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R-UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, I was really disappointed in her comments. I happen to like Hillary Clinton and get along well with her, but that was as race baiting as anything I know. You know, the attitude is that only Democrats care about minorities. That's pure b.s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And joining us now to talk about Trent Lott and what has happened in the wake of his resignation and what might be in store for his successor, from Washington, Cliff May with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy and Democratic consultant Victor Kamber.

Good morning, gentlemen.

Welcome.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Paula.

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

Merry Christmas.

ZAHN: Merry Christmas to all of you, too.

KAMBER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Victor, let me start with you this morning. Isn't it true that both sides have been guilty of race baiting from time to time?

KAMBER: I'm sure that we'll find a record where there's some Democrat that has said something. But I think the record of which party has better supported the minorities in this country historically and at present time is the Democratic Party, because both sides clearly have had people who have been on the wrong side of the civil rights issues.

ZAHN: Cliff? MAY: Well, I think you're right, Paula, we have seen that in terms of the Civil Rights Act, more Republicans than Democrats voted for it in '64 and '65. In terms of Hillary Clinton, what she said really was rather offensive. She said that two, that they were in two southern states in this last election, Republicans won by riding the confederate flag issue to the polls. I would like to know which two states those were.

KAMBER: I'll be happy to tell you. MAY: Tell me.

KAMBER: Georgia and South Carolina. MAY: Those were not issues for the Republicans in either of those states.

KAMBER: Absolutely. MAY: And you must be suggesting that the voters in those states are all racists, is that it?

KAMBER: I think when you take -- Hillary Clinton was right on when she said that one person doesn't represent the party. Trent Lott stepping down does not cleanse the Republican Party... MAY: Who are the racists in those two states...

COMMERCIAL

ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait, Victor, Victor...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Hang on, gentlemen. I want to go back to the point. I want you, Victor, to answer the charge, where was the evidence of race baiting and the use of the confederate flag?

KAMBER: Oh, I think clearly in the governor's...

ZAHN: And you said in Georgia and?

KAMBER: Yes, in the governor's races in Georgia, the Republican candidate for governor, Purdue (ph), made it a major issue. MAY: He did not.

KAMBER: The governor of Georgia... MAY: He did not.

KAMBER: ... Byron (ph), said he wanted to pull the flag down. Purdue said he wanted to keep it up and now Purdue is changing his position. MAY: It wasn't an issue at any point.

KAMBER: In South Carolina, in South Carolina the same issue... MAY: Lindsey Graham?

ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait. Cliff, let Victor finish.

KAMBER: The governor. Governor. Governor we're talking about, the same issue came up in South Carolina. MAY: These were not issues. KAMBER: And the same issue, both Republicans won. MAY: These were not major issues in those races.

KAMBER: They were issues in the race. MAY: And that's not true.

KAMBER: When you win by a small margin, any issue makes a difference. MAY: Well, you have people in the Democratic Party who clearly have a bad view on race...

KAMBER: Those... MAY: And I'm talking about people like...

KAMBER: Where? MAY: Well, we can start with people like Fritz Hollings and we can go to some people like Senator Bob Byrd. We can also talk about people...

KAMBER: They do not have a bad issue on race. MAY: ... like Al Sharpton and we can talk about Democrats who reach out to Louis Farrakhan, who is as segregationist as they come. The Democratic Party should stop reaching out to Al Sharpton and certainly Louis Farrakhan. You've got to agree with me on that, Vic.

KAMBER: I don't disagree with you per chance. MAY: That's good. OK, good.

KAMBER: I don't agree with you. MAY: A note of agreement, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, well, let's go on to, since you've reached agreement on one issue, on the whole issue of the ouster of Trent Lott. A number of columnists were referring to it as a great coup of the Bush administration because it was done without any obvious Bush fingerprints all over that. Do you buy that for a second, Vic?

KAMBER: Not at all. I mean we start with big brothers, Jeb Bush, or baby brother's fingerprints. We start with the president's own comments. First of all, let's put the blame where it belongs, and that's with Trent Lott. He ousted himself with his comments and with his rhetoric and his history. It wasn't just the one Strom Thurmond remarks, it was a whole history that caught up with him.

But he was pushed along the way by this administration and colleagues, the Republican colleagues that stabbed him in the back. And I understand the -- I mean this is politics. They didn't want a leader out there that would mess up the agenda by being focused on race as opposed to the other items they had to have, so they graciously moved him out, or ungraciously, as the case may be. MAY: Well, I...

KAMBER: The only question is he probably should be out of the Senate, also. MAY: Vic is right that Trent Lott moved himself out. He said things that were strange and offensive and we don't believe in entitlements and he's not entitled to be the majority leader. And I think he did the right thing by stepping down. Now Bill Frist steps in and I think that's a very good thing. I happen to have the pleasure and the honor of knowing Bill Frist. He is a tremendous guy. He is the only physician. He's a heart surgeon, the only physician in the Senate.

He, on his vacations, goes to Africa and does surgery to help people. He's written a book on bioterrorism, an important topic right now. I think he's a very impressive man. I'm very glad.

ZAHN: But, Cliff, the criticism is that he was handpicked by the president and even some senators have said on the record that they're uncomfortable with that close relationship between Bill Frist and the White House. MAY: I think there's no question that he has, I would say, support from the White House. But handpicked, I don't think you can do that in the Senate. I think people like John Warner, others in the Senate decided they needed somebody else and they needed somebody who could take on a very tough task of bringing together a Republican caucus that is somewhat divided at this point and there's some bad feelings, and also in the Senate as a whole there is some bitterness.

So he's got a hard job ahead of him. Look, six months from now, keep this in mind, I think Vic will agree with me on this, six months from now most Americans didn't know who Trent Lott was because the job of majority leader was essentially a deal maker. That may not be true with Bill Frist. He will be, I think, a party spokesman in a way we haven't seen before in a majority leader, or at least haven't seen in the recent past.

ZAHN: Vic, a final word. No one denies how smart this guy is, how ambitious he is, how he can get by on four hours of sleep. What kind of a hill does he have to climb here when even his own colleagues are saying he comes at this job with less legislative experience than just about anybody that's ever held the job?

KAMBER: I think only time will tell. I think that's the big criteria. I mean clearly I'll give credit. He's bright, he's attractive, he, you know, but he's only been there seven years. He doesn't know the parliamentary procedure, he doesn't know the legislative process in the way that a schooled person who is going to lead his own party. He has not been a deal maker within his own party.

So we'll see. Only time will tell. I think he really does become the hand tottie (ph) of the administration and will take his marching orders from the White House. Whether or not that will play well with the Senate bulls, the Stevens and the Orrin Hatches of the world, only, again, time will tell. MAY: He's a very fast learner, Paula, which is important. And he's got some very strong support in people like Mitch McConnell, who are very well experienced. I think he's got a hard job but a possible task in bringing together the Republican caucus, but also bringing the Senate together so they can get some jobs, some work done for the whole country...

KAMBER: And he'll be learning on our nickels. MAY: ... and not just fight among themselves.

KAMBER: He'll be learning on our nickels.

ZAHN: Well, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there on that one and bring you back and see if we can get reconciliation on your next joint appearance.

Cliff May, Victor Kamber, thanks for your time and happy holidays if we don't see you again before Christmas. MAY: Thank you.

KAMBER: Happy holidays. MAY: Happy new year. See you next year.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 23, 2002 - 07:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Trent Lott's probable replacement, Tennessee Senator Bill Frist, is expected to become the new Republican majority leader later this afternoon. Meanwhile, some Republicans and Democrats are using Lott's resignation to lob some partisan political broadsides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: If anyone thinks that one person stepping down from a leadership position cleanses the Republican Party of their constant exploitation of race, then I think you're naive.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R-UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, I was really disappointed in her comments. I happen to like Hillary Clinton and get along well with her, but that was as race baiting as anything I know. You know, the attitude is that only Democrats care about minorities. That's pure b.s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And joining us now to talk about Trent Lott and what has happened in the wake of his resignation and what might be in store for his successor, from Washington, Cliff May with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy and Democratic consultant Victor Kamber.

Good morning, gentlemen.

Welcome.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Paula.

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

Merry Christmas.

ZAHN: Merry Christmas to all of you, too.

KAMBER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Victor, let me start with you this morning. Isn't it true that both sides have been guilty of race baiting from time to time?

KAMBER: I'm sure that we'll find a record where there's some Democrat that has said something. But I think the record of which party has better supported the minorities in this country historically and at present time is the Democratic Party, because both sides clearly have had people who have been on the wrong side of the civil rights issues.

ZAHN: Cliff? MAY: Well, I think you're right, Paula, we have seen that in terms of the Civil Rights Act, more Republicans than Democrats voted for it in '64 and '65. In terms of Hillary Clinton, what she said really was rather offensive. She said that two, that they were in two southern states in this last election, Republicans won by riding the confederate flag issue to the polls. I would like to know which two states those were.

KAMBER: I'll be happy to tell you. MAY: Tell me.

KAMBER: Georgia and South Carolina. MAY: Those were not issues for the Republicans in either of those states.

KAMBER: Absolutely. MAY: And you must be suggesting that the voters in those states are all racists, is that it?

KAMBER: I think when you take -- Hillary Clinton was right on when she said that one person doesn't represent the party. Trent Lott stepping down does not cleanse the Republican Party... MAY: Who are the racists in those two states...

COMMERCIAL

ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait, Victor, Victor...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Hang on, gentlemen. I want to go back to the point. I want you, Victor, to answer the charge, where was the evidence of race baiting and the use of the confederate flag?

KAMBER: Oh, I think clearly in the governor's...

ZAHN: And you said in Georgia and?

KAMBER: Yes, in the governor's races in Georgia, the Republican candidate for governor, Purdue (ph), made it a major issue. MAY: He did not.

KAMBER: The governor of Georgia... MAY: He did not.

KAMBER: ... Byron (ph), said he wanted to pull the flag down. Purdue said he wanted to keep it up and now Purdue is changing his position. MAY: It wasn't an issue at any point.

KAMBER: In South Carolina, in South Carolina the same issue... MAY: Lindsey Graham?

ZAHN: Wait, wait, wait. Cliff, let Victor finish.

KAMBER: The governor. Governor. Governor we're talking about, the same issue came up in South Carolina. MAY: These were not issues. KAMBER: And the same issue, both Republicans won. MAY: These were not major issues in those races.

KAMBER: They were issues in the race. MAY: And that's not true.

KAMBER: When you win by a small margin, any issue makes a difference. MAY: Well, you have people in the Democratic Party who clearly have a bad view on race...

KAMBER: Those... MAY: And I'm talking about people like...

KAMBER: Where? MAY: Well, we can start with people like Fritz Hollings and we can go to some people like Senator Bob Byrd. We can also talk about people...

KAMBER: They do not have a bad issue on race. MAY: ... like Al Sharpton and we can talk about Democrats who reach out to Louis Farrakhan, who is as segregationist as they come. The Democratic Party should stop reaching out to Al Sharpton and certainly Louis Farrakhan. You've got to agree with me on that, Vic.

KAMBER: I don't disagree with you per chance. MAY: That's good. OK, good.

KAMBER: I don't agree with you. MAY: A note of agreement, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, well, let's go on to, since you've reached agreement on one issue, on the whole issue of the ouster of Trent Lott. A number of columnists were referring to it as a great coup of the Bush administration because it was done without any obvious Bush fingerprints all over that. Do you buy that for a second, Vic?

KAMBER: Not at all. I mean we start with big brothers, Jeb Bush, or baby brother's fingerprints. We start with the president's own comments. First of all, let's put the blame where it belongs, and that's with Trent Lott. He ousted himself with his comments and with his rhetoric and his history. It wasn't just the one Strom Thurmond remarks, it was a whole history that caught up with him.

But he was pushed along the way by this administration and colleagues, the Republican colleagues that stabbed him in the back. And I understand the -- I mean this is politics. They didn't want a leader out there that would mess up the agenda by being focused on race as opposed to the other items they had to have, so they graciously moved him out, or ungraciously, as the case may be. MAY: Well, I...

KAMBER: The only question is he probably should be out of the Senate, also. MAY: Vic is right that Trent Lott moved himself out. He said things that were strange and offensive and we don't believe in entitlements and he's not entitled to be the majority leader. And I think he did the right thing by stepping down. Now Bill Frist steps in and I think that's a very good thing. I happen to have the pleasure and the honor of knowing Bill Frist. He is a tremendous guy. He is the only physician. He's a heart surgeon, the only physician in the Senate.

He, on his vacations, goes to Africa and does surgery to help people. He's written a book on bioterrorism, an important topic right now. I think he's a very impressive man. I'm very glad.

ZAHN: But, Cliff, the criticism is that he was handpicked by the president and even some senators have said on the record that they're uncomfortable with that close relationship between Bill Frist and the White House. MAY: I think there's no question that he has, I would say, support from the White House. But handpicked, I don't think you can do that in the Senate. I think people like John Warner, others in the Senate decided they needed somebody else and they needed somebody who could take on a very tough task of bringing together a Republican caucus that is somewhat divided at this point and there's some bad feelings, and also in the Senate as a whole there is some bitterness.

So he's got a hard job ahead of him. Look, six months from now, keep this in mind, I think Vic will agree with me on this, six months from now most Americans didn't know who Trent Lott was because the job of majority leader was essentially a deal maker. That may not be true with Bill Frist. He will be, I think, a party spokesman in a way we haven't seen before in a majority leader, or at least haven't seen in the recent past.

ZAHN: Vic, a final word. No one denies how smart this guy is, how ambitious he is, how he can get by on four hours of sleep. What kind of a hill does he have to climb here when even his own colleagues are saying he comes at this job with less legislative experience than just about anybody that's ever held the job?

KAMBER: I think only time will tell. I think that's the big criteria. I mean clearly I'll give credit. He's bright, he's attractive, he, you know, but he's only been there seven years. He doesn't know the parliamentary procedure, he doesn't know the legislative process in the way that a schooled person who is going to lead his own party. He has not been a deal maker within his own party.

So we'll see. Only time will tell. I think he really does become the hand tottie (ph) of the administration and will take his marching orders from the White House. Whether or not that will play well with the Senate bulls, the Stevens and the Orrin Hatches of the world, only, again, time will tell. MAY: He's a very fast learner, Paula, which is important. And he's got some very strong support in people like Mitch McConnell, who are very well experienced. I think he's got a hard job but a possible task in bringing together the Republican caucus, but also bringing the Senate together so they can get some jobs, some work done for the whole country...

KAMBER: And he'll be learning on our nickels. MAY: ... and not just fight among themselves.

KAMBER: He'll be learning on our nickels.

ZAHN: Well, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there on that one and bring you back and see if we can get reconciliation on your next joint appearance.

Cliff May, Victor Kamber, thanks for your time and happy holidays if we don't see you again before Christmas. MAY: Thank you.

KAMBER: Happy holidays. MAY: Happy new year. See you next year.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com