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CNN TALKBACK LIVE
$300 Million Powerball Winner Revealed; Should Torture be an Option for U.S. Government?
Aired December 26, 2002 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: Today on TALKBACK LIVE: How far should the U.S. government go to get information from detainees? Should torture be an option?
Also, Democrats hope to convince you they can do a better job fighting terrorism.
Do you know this man? Scientists rethink what Jesus Christ may have looked like. We'll tell you why.
And someone somewhere is having a holly, jolly Powerball holiday. What would you do with $300 million?
TALKBACK LIVE begins right now..
(APPLAUSE)
O'BRIEN: Hello, everybody. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. I'm Miles O'Brien. Arthel Neville enjoying some time off in the holidays.
A 55-year-old man from West Virginia, well, I think it's safe to say he's one happy rich guy.
Wouldn't you say, folks?
Yes, they're willing to go along with that. He's the single owner of the winning Powerball ticket. It's worth nearly $315 million. But he's going to take the lump sum. So, once the taxes are taken out, he's have to eke it out on $111 million. We're going to see who he is in just a moment.
But before that, let's first tune in to Charleston, West Virginia, where we find CNN's Jason Bellini.
Jason, we know you didn't win, because you're still there, right?
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, sad, isn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BELLINI: But we're going to meet the winner pretty soon. They're getting ready to announce -- well, we already know who the winner is. They haven't given us his name. But he's going to come forward and he's going to talk about, presumably, what he's going to do with all of that money. Again, it's a 55-year-old man. And he's here, we're told, with his daughter. Oh, we do have his name. His name is Jack Whittaker. Jack Whittaker is the winner. I guess they just gave us his name.
They've been giving information about this man in dribs and drabs. He's also here with his daughter and with his granddaughter, who's 15 years old, who we're told is very excited to go up to New York City and get her hair done by someone up there. They're from a very small town. Scott Depot is the name of the town in West Virginia. I'd never heard of it before. It's in Putnam County, West Virginia. So, again, it's a real small town.
He's a construction worker, we're told. He's planning -- we're told by lottery officials here, that he's -- his initial plans for the money is to give a portion of it to the Church of God, the church he belongs to. And then he's going to treat his family to some trips. And, believe it or not, he's interested in buying a helicopter. He's always wanted to have a helicopter, and now he may be able to do it.
The lottery -- oh, it looks like they're just about ready to get started. I'll hand it back to you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jason, we're probably going to listen in. I don't know the exact tote board as to who's going first. I believe there's a lot of preamble there.
Let's try to squeeze a question in before it gets under way. I did a quick -- oh, let's listen in. Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
JOHN MUSGRAVE, WEST VIRGINIA LOTTERY DIRECTOR: Today is a great day for West Virginia. We have with us the winner of the largest Powerball jackpot in history, a winner who's always going to be remembered as the person who received a substantial Christmas gift.
We have also with us some other winners that we want to introduce to you today. But, before we introduce the winners, I would like to introduce two distinguished West Virginians. They're lottery commissioners. We have Bill Clayton (ph) and George Young (ph). We also have with us the secretary of tax and revenue, Brian Castic (ph). When there's money involved, you always see the tax man show up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he's smiling.
(LAUGHTER)
MUSGRAVE: I wanted to point out that, under the Powerball rules, we wait two weeks, under the rules, to present a check to the winners. This is so that, with the 25 states participating, the dollars can be collected and then presented to the winner.
So, technically, it's January the 14th that they should get a check. But we didn't want our West Virginia winners to go without some money, so that they could buy dinner tonight. So we have a check to present them.
And to introduce the person to present that check and to congratulate the winning family, West Virginia family, is Governor Bob Wise. And I want to point out that he's just reserved a very nice honor of being the first West Virginia governor elected to the Southern Governors Conference.
Ladies and gentlemen, our distinguished governor, Governor Bob Wise. (APPLAUSE)
GOV. BOB WISE (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Thank you very much.
And I actually have several awards to make. And the one that I think has really brought everyone here, we're going to do last. But it was a good day in West Virginia on the Powerball.
And so the first winner that we have is for $100,000 to Josh McClead (ph) from Vienna, West Virginia, who is a 20-year-old pre- pharmacy student at West Virginia University. He bought his ticket at the Citgo in Parkersburg. He matched all five numbers, but not the Powerball number. But this ought to be a way to start the next semester, Josh.
(APPLAUSE)
WISE: Now, in West Virginia, we have over 1,400 businesses selling Powerball tickets and involved in the lottery. And these are small businesses in many cases and the kind of business people that make our state what it is. They work hard. They get up every morning. They play by the rules. And they're the reason for the success of the lottery and Powerball. We're very, very grateful to them.
We give our retailers in West Virginia 7 percent of every sale. And we give them bonuses for selling winning tickets. This is quite a winning ticket that was sold. And so I'd like to present to Larry Trogdon (ph) of C&L Superserve in Hurricane a special bonus, a check for $100,000.
(APPLAUSE)
WISE: And I know the kind of businessperson he is. He'll be right back there running the store as soon as this is over, right, Larry?
And he's also here with the store manager, Amy (ph) Trogdon, and also her future husband, Aaron Gillespie (ph). So we're delighted to have them.
Now, drumroll, please. Yesterday was Christmas, but I'm happy to say that Santa has chosen to stay in West Virginia. And, certainly, Santa dropped a great gift yesterday and today, because we have, I'm happy to say, in West Virginia today, the largest Powerball winner in history is a West Virginian.
(APPLAUSE)
WISE: And our Powerball winner and the nation's largest Powerball winner, I'm happy to present to you, from Putnam County, Mr. Andrew Jack Whittaker right here.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
WISE: And Jack is here with his wife, Jules (ph), his daughter Ginger (ph) and her husband, Brian McMahon (ph), and their 15-year-old daughter Brandi.
This is the largest Powerball jackpot in history, $315 million. He bought his ticket, as I said, December the 23rd at C&L Superserve. Jack is president of a West Virginia -- actually, several West Virginia businesses, construction companies, companies that provide services and water systems for infrastructure.
Jack, we're very, very proud of you. And, actually, I think we can do it right here. We want to present to you this check for $314 million.
(APPLAUSE)
WISE: Move down a little bit and we'll help these folks back here. There we go. A little lower. Can you get that all right in the back? Phil, Don, are you OK on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tilt it forward.
WISE: Tilt it forward, get the glare off? You want to get all those numbers. A lot of zeros.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lower. Lower.
WISE: OK.
We got one more. Just a minute. Just a minute. We'll be there in just a second. I got another check to do.
Now, as John Musgrave said, in West Virginia, we believe that, while you won't qualify, you won't get the full check for at least two weeks, we believe in West Virginia in giving an advance, something to help with eating money or whatnot. It gives me much pleasure to present to you, as an advance from the state of West Virginia, a check in the amount of $10 million.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
WISE: And, at this point, I'm turning it over to the man of the hour, Jack, Jack Whittaker.
(CROSSTALK)
WISE: If there's anything want to say in advance, go ahead.
ANDREW JACK WHITTAKER, POWERBALL WINNER: I just want to thank God for letting me pick the right numbers, or letting the machine pick the right numbers for me. And I want to say thanks to all my family that believes in me and everything.
And as for your question of what I'm going to do with the money, I'm going to pay tithes on it, the very first thing I do. And then, after that, I'm going to take care of my family. And then I'm going to expand my business.
QUESTION: What went through your mind when you first found out that you won?
WHITTAKER: Well, actually, I thought I had won -- I thought I had only gotten four numbers and a Powerball last night, because the numbers came up wrong on the TV screen. And I didn't know until this morning. I usually get up about 5:00. And, at 5:00, I got the up and turned the TV on. And I seen that the ticket had been won from my gas station that I buy gas and get me a biscuit from every morning.
And I told my wife, there's -- the odds of selling me a Powerball and four numbers and selling somebody else a Powerball and five numbers is astronomical. I said, let me see that ticket. And I looked at that ticket, and, sure enough, we had the winner. And we were very excited. We called our daughter and then we started calling our family and everything.
QUESTION: What are your immediate plans? What do you plan to do (OFF-MIKE) I'm sure this is all just kind of sinking in right now.
WHITTAKER: We're going to -- I don't know. We're going to do some publicity for the lottery, for the West Virginia lottery. We want to represent them and just do some things that they want us to do. And we just want to advertise the West Virginia lottery.
QUESTION: What's going to be the first thing that you want to buy for yourself?
WHITTAKER: I'm not going to buy anything for myself. The very first thing I'm going to do is, I'm going to go home. I'm going to sit down and make out three checks to three pastors for 10 percent of this check. That's the very first thing I'm going to do.
(APPLAUSE)
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
WHITTAKER: I can't tell you that right now.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) I wouldn't even show up at work another day. Now, you plan to continue working. Why not just move to Hawaii?
WHITTAKER: I have 25 people laid off right now at Christmas. I want more work, so I can put them back to work. I don't like them being off work.
(APPLAUSE) WHITTAKER: I have 117 employees. And, right now, we've had to lay off about -- because of the weather, we've had to lay off about 25 people. And we're wanting to get more work and put them back to work as soon as possible. That's my goal.
QUESTION: How can you use the money to help get them back to work?
WHITTAKER: By bidding more work. And there's a couple of jobs that are sour out that I'm going to offer to take over, so I can get them back to work immediately.
QUESTION: Is there anything in your life that this money is going to allow you to do that you thought that you might not get a chance to do?
WHITTAKER: Not really, no. I'm very blessed. I've been blessed my whole life. And it's going to really excite my granddaughter and my daughter. They're the ones that's going to be spending the money. I get my enjoyment out of them spending the money.
QUESTION: How did you tell them and how did they react?
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) How did you tell them and how did they react?
QUESTION: Who was in the house?
WHITTAKER: Just me and my wife. Just me and my wife.
(CROSSTALK)
BRANDI BRAGG, GRANDDAUGHTER OF JACK WHITTAKER: He called me at 9:00 in the morning at my friend's house. But he left a message, because we didn't answer the phone. And I thought he sounded mad. So I wasn't even going to call him back. And I did. And he's like, "You need to get dressed up because I won the lottery."
And I was like: "No, you didn't. You swear? You swear?"
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: Are you Jules?
WHITTAKER: No, she's Brandy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brandi Bragg, too. Her last name is Bragg.
WHITTAKER: She's my granddaughter. She's not my daughter.
QUESTION: Please spell your name, first and last.
BRAGG: B-R-A-N-D-I and B-R-A-G-G.
QUESTION: Thank you very much.
QUESTION: How old are you?
BRAGG: I'm 15.
QUESTION: Mr. Whittaker, they said that you are going to take in a lump sum as opposed to an annuity. I wonder if you could tell me why it is that you choose to do it that way.
WHITTAKER: People go bankrupt. I may not live six, eight years. I can take the money. I can take this much money and do a lot of good with this much money right now.
QUESTION: Are you a faithful lottery player?
WHITTAKER: I played the lottery $100 every time once it reaches $100 million. I don't play if it's under $100 million.
(LAUGHTER)
WHITTAKER: That's the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Is this the first time you've won anything?
WHITTAKER: This is the first time I've won anything. I've won $15, $20 out of the $100.
QUESTION: How long (OFF-MIKE)
WHITTAKER: Every time it reaches $100 million.
QUESTION: Going back how far? How long?
WHITTAKER: Ever since it started. Ever since the lottery started, I play. And then, if I win -- say, if I win $15, the next drawing, I invest another $100 and play the $15 I won. So, I've got $115 worth of tickets. That's what I had for this drawing was...
QUESTION: Are you going to keep playing?
WHITTAKER: Yes!
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
WHITTAKER: I may play now when it's $10 million.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: How do you think your life is going to change?
WHITTAKER: It's not. If I can help it, it's not going to change. I'm content with my life. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) another form of transportation, another way to get to work?
WHITTAKER: Yes, well, I've been that close to buying me a helicopter for a couple of years. And I'll probably buy the helicopter now.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: How large are your businesses? How much do you do in annual...
WHITTAKER: About $17 million a year.
QUESTION: With all three combined?
WHITTAKER: No. That's with Diversified Enterprise. Diversified Enterprise is our main company that I own with my brother and my brother-in-law. And we do major water and sewage treatment plants and major water projects all through the state of West Virginia.
QUESTION: Is this a company that you started, your family started, and sort of built from the ground up?
WHITTAKER: Yes. We started it a year and a half ago.
QUESTION: Can we hear from your daughter, the one that is going to be spending the money?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to buy a condo in Cancun. I'll come back here during hurricane season. That's about the extent of that.
QUESTION: Mr. Whittaker, can you tell us what churches will be receiving the money?
WHITTAKER: All Church of Gods.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITTAKER: I haven't spoke to them yet. And I don't think it's fair for me to tell you which ones yet until I speak to them.
QUESTION: What church do you go to?
WHITTAKER: We go to the Church of Gods.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITTAKER: No, we're not going to disclose that right now. So, you could have got all that from me this morning, if you'd have been smart.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (OFF-MIKE) in the store and nobody believed me.
QUESTION: You went to the store?
WHITTAKER: Yes. I went and got my gas and my two biscuits, like I usually do, one for me and one for my wife.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) You knew you'd won and you saw the report. (OFF-MIKE) Tell us about your morning.
WHITTAKER: I just -- I went to -- we got up. And, of course, the first thing I did was call my lawyer, Norm Daniels (ph), at 6:00 this morning. And he's been working steady since then.
And he told me stay at home until 8:00, until he notified the lottery people, and then right after 8:00 -- because I normally go to the office about 5:30 or 6:00 in the morning. And I just decided to go ahead and get my gas. And my wife was hungry. She was real nervous and she was hungry. So, I went to get our biscuits.
And we just kind of walked in. Or I walked in. And I got my gas, filled my Navigator up with gas. And I walked in and paid for everything. And I had to wait in line. It was like, I don't know -- there must have been 30 people in the store or more. And I had to wait in line. And I told the little girl that sold me the ticket, I told her, I asked her, I said: "How do you feel today? Do you feel any different?"
She said, "You won the lottery, didn't you?"
And I said, "Yes, I did."
She said: "No, you didn't. You're not excited enough to have won the lottery" and just kind of pushed me on out the door.
(LAUGHTER)
WHITTAKER: And then the Associated Press guy, he's interviewing me, because I gave the girl that makes my biscuits, I gave her $100 for Christmas. And he -- I guess I caught his eye. And he just followed me all through the store interviewing me. And when I got him out to the car, I told him I'd be back at 11:00. And he said: "You didn't win nothing. You're pulling my leg."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You weren't excited enough.
(LAUGHTER)
WHITTAKER: I'll tell you, every morning I wake up, I feel like I've won the lottery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
QUESTION: Do you always give $100 Christmas gifts every year, or because you won the lottery?
WHITTAKER: Well, no, that was her gift before I won the lottery. She'll be getting a lot more than that, probably.
QUESTION: Sir, have you lived here all your life?
WHITTAKER: No. I'm from Jumping Branch, West Virginia. I've lived in Scott Depot approximately 10 years.
QUESTION: And may I ask, do you always all dress in black? Is that your trademark?
WHITTAKER: The hat is my trademark, and the boots.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cowboy hat.
WHITTAKER: I ought to be wearing any color.
QUESTION: Do you plan on staying around (OFF-MIKE)
WHITTAKER: Yes. I'm not going to change my life much.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
WHITTAKER: Maybe not. We might move to a gated community somewhere.
QUESTION: How much does your lawyer get?
(LAUGHTER)
WHITTAKER: I can't tell you that. It depends on how good a job he does.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: How many people do you employ when they're all on set?
WHITTAKER: One hundred and seventeen.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
WHITTAKER: Yes.
QUESTION: Is that 10 percent of the gross or the net?
(CROSSTALK)
WHITTAKER: Of the net -- no, of the gross.
QUESTION: Are you have having a party tonight? Are you taking everybody out to dinner?
WHITTAKER: We're going to New York tonight.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) or a sudden trip?
WHITTAKER: A sudden trip.
QUESTION: Are you going for publicity?
WHITTAKER: Yes.
QUESTION: Going to do "The Today Show"?
WHITTAKER: All of them.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
WHITTAKER: We've tithed all our life.
QUESTION: Every week or once a year? How do you do it?
WHITTAKER: Every month. We tithe once a month, because that's the way we get paid.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) money for the Church of God. Do you go every week to church?
WHITTAKER: I haven't been for about a month. But I've been -- I haven't been feeling well.
QUESTION: Do you feel better?
WHITTAKER: Yes, I feel better.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: We've been listening to Jack Whittaker, the man who is, as he said, he was blessed every day, felt like he'd won the lottery every day. Well, he's really won it now.
I have just two things to say to him: Uncle Jack? No.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Anyway, let's get a comment here from Rick.
Rick, go ahead.
RICK: I just don't know about this guy, you know? He seems really happy. He says: I'm content with my life and yadda yadda. I mean, it's real easy to be content with your life when you're $317, what is it, million dollars richer? If you sent that my way, I think I could be content with my life, too.
O'BRIEN: A little skeptical, I'd say.
All right, Jim, what are your comments on Mr. Whittaker?
JIM: I don't think a better person could have won. Just watching him there, he's so down to earth, and what he wants to do, giving some of the money to the church. And, really, I think the most important thing was how he was thinking about the people that worked for him, putting them back to work. Not many people would do that. And you really got to hand it to him for that.
(APPLAUSE)
O'BRIEN: Yes, give Jack Whittaker a round of applause.
Go ahead, Jeff.
JEFF: Yes, this makes me content, because I play the lottery and I only hit like maybe $100. And, if I keep playing, maybe eventually I might hit, too. So, it gives me hope
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: There you go. Play $100 whenever it gets up over $100 million.
Randy?
RANDY: Yes. I think it's really commendable on what he's doing as far as church and also putting those people back to work, which, in today's economy, I think is a really commendable thing for him to do. And I applaud the man. I think he's great.
(APPLAUSE)
O'BRIEN: All right, give him a round of applause. Whittaker for president. I think the committee was born right here.
We're hopefully going to hear from family members in just a little bit. We're working on that right now. Obviously, the news conference is still under way. We'll be watching that for you closely.
We've got some other subjects we want to talk about. We're going to take a break, pay the rent here. And we'll be back with more TALKBACK LIVE in just a moment.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back. We are back with TALKBACK LIVE.
We're shifting gears. We'll probably check in on West Virginia in a little bit, just because we're having too much fun with that, but now on to more serious matters.
Pain control is a very subjective thing. That comment was made by a government official, "The Washington Post" reporter. The reporter was investigating the alleged abuse of suspected al Qaeda terrorists and captured Taliban commanders during interrogations. Now, according to the article, the CIA keeps suspects uncomfortable in kneeling or standing positions for hours, in black hoods or spray-painted goggles. Detainees might be bombarded with bright lights, deprived of sleep. Those who cooperate are rewarded with creature comforts. And those who do not are handed over to other intelligence services, foreign intelligence services, for further questioning.
U.S. officials say there are many inaccuracies in the "Post" report, but it's a subject of a lot of discussion right now in Washington and elsewhere.
Joining us from Washington to hash this all out is CNN national security correspondent David Ensor.
David, they didn't mention rubber hoses, but it sounds like the rubber hose treatment is what we're talking about.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, CIA officials have said on the record that the gloves are off now, Miles, since 9/11. And they've stressed that the whole point of interrogating prisoners from al Qaeda is to save hundreds and perhaps thousands of lives, which is a worthy goal, in their view.
Now, U.S. officials have said consistently, they don't use what they call torture. Some of these techniques might fall -- that you've just described being in the "Post" article might fall short of that. And, as you say, some knowledgeable U.S. officials have that told me that the article has a lot of inaccuracies in it. But since this is not a subject they're willing to talk about in any kind of detail, this is the problem with the subject.
Neither the "Post" sources nor mine are willing to be identified by name. So you're kind of left with innuendoes on both sides.
O'BRIEN: David, that's a good point. Now, this -- we should point out that the byline on this is Bob Woodward, no less than Bob Woodward.
And I'm curious, when they talk to you, if they give you a sense of whether these inaccuracies are little ones or really big ones, which would undermine the entire piece.
ENSOR: I think there are some of both, from what I understand. I believe the byline is Bart Gellman and Dana Priest, but I'm not absolutely sure.
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. I thought Bob Woodward was on that. I thought I read that. Anyway, go ahead.
ENSOR: In any case, I know of one or two minor inaccuracies in the article. For example, it talks about the Bagram Air Base, where many of the interrogations do indeed go on by U.S. officials of suspected Taliban or al Qaeda personnel.
But that base is run by the military. And so are, for the most part, as far as I know and as far my sources tell me, the interrogations. So, to suggest it's a CIA interrogation center, well, that may not be quite entirely correct, but not a major point.
The major question is, is the U.S. conducting torture, while in its annual State Department human rights report accusing others of doing so? And the answer from officials that I've spoken to today is, no, they're not conducting torture.
Now, how do you define that? Is keeping someone kneeling for 10 hours torture? Well, that's something officials are not willing to get into with me. And that's something perhaps the audience has to ask themselves. But do remember, the officials I have spoken to today say, what the goal is here. These are people who are suspected of being part of an organization that is trying to kill thousands of Americans. It's urgent to try and find out what they know and keep them from going any further with it.
O'BRIEN: All right, David, Otto has a question or a comment.
Go ahead, Otto.
OTTO: The way I view the world today, the information and having good information is very important in determining what actions a country can take, whether it's political, terrorist, or whatever.
Now, isn't it very, very important to use reasonable means to obtain information by people who might be able to give you something that would be important to you?
ENSOR: You know, you're asking me for my opinion. And it's not really...
(APPLAUSE)
ENSOR: It's a good point.
O'BRIEN: You're on the spot, officially, David. You're on the spot.
ENSOR: Yes.
O'BRIEN: We're not going to deprive you of sleep, but we will give you some hard questions from the audience.
ENSOR: Right. Fair enough.
You're absolutely right, sir, that this country stands for some things -- I think this is behind your question -- and we have to continue to stand to those things. And if you stoop too low, you're down there with the other guys.
At the same time, if you had someone in your hand who you knew was part of a plot to kill 100 people around the corner, and you had minutes to get out of them what you needed to know how to stop them, what would you do? And that's the other half of the dilemma. I don't know what the answer is. I'm just a reporter. O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, David Ensor. Sorry to put you on the spot like that, but that sometimes happens with the audience here. They ask the hard questions.
Thanks for dropping by.
We'll going to be back and check in with our panel of people who are seldom reluctant to share their opinions. They will weigh in on this and other matters in a few moments, along with our audience. TALKBACK LIVE continues in a few minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Round and round the subjects go. Where they stop, nobody knows. Let's get back to Powerball, shall we? were talking a moment ago about a much more serious subject. Now back on Powerball. Stay with us, folks, if you need assistance at home we have programs available for you.
Let's go live to Charleston, West Virginia and meet some of the family members. Look at that group there. There that is a good dose of the Whittaker clan there.
How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're doing great.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Is that Milly (ph) who's talking?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. It's Carolyn (ph).
O'BRIEN: Hey Carolyn, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I'm ecstatic.
O'BRIEN: Ecstatic is a good word. Now, you're number two on the list, after the church, which is to say the family. What are you going to do with the money? Or is that presumptuous to ask at this moment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey, I don't know anything about that. I wouldn't want to comment on that.
O'BRIEN: Yes. Well tell us about...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
O'BRIEN: Tell us about your brother-in-law and what he's like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother-in-law is a fantastic man.
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry this would be -- I'm sorry. He's your uncle, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's my brother-in-law/uncle.
O'BRIEN: He's Uncle Jack to everybody. A matter fact I just said a moment ago...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is actually...
O'BRIEN: I just said a moment ago, I'd like him to be my Uncle Jack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually we all call him Daddy Jack. And that's what we call him.
O'BRIEN: Daddy Jack. All right, Daddy. Everybody here wants to get to know Daddy Jack, I think, right? Does everybody want to be in the Whittaker clan now? All right. All right, so how did you hear about all this? Tell us how excited everybody is there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His daughter called me at 7:30 this morning, and she was very calm. We thought something was wrong. And I said, it's okay. I can handle it, because we've all had a traumatic year. And so she finally told me, and I started...
O'BRIEN: Tell us about, you've had a traumatic year? What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Traumatic. We have had lots of things to happen in our family this year, but this is a nice ending, and we're all thankful.
O'BRIEN: OK. Well, I'm glad it's come out. We have an audience rippling full of questions. We've told them they can't ask you for money, aside from that, Jeff (ph), go ahead.
JEFF: I just want to thank him for putting people back to work. That's a good man. Putting people before money. And I want to ask, do you know -- I believe he's given to the church, that's most important. I always thank god first, he always looks out for you. That's a good thing. Thank you very much.
O'BRIEN: All right. Rick (ph), go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to ask, is he the same kind of man we just saw on the news conference? Is he that same nice, sweet man showing to the press, even when he's home and even before he won all this money?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. Just the other day, right before Christmas, he seen a little boy on television and was telling us that this little boy, all he wanted for Christmas was a bed for he and his brother to sleep in. So Jackie sent him $10,000. And he is that kind of man and always has been.
O'BRIEN: Wow. That's unbelievable. That's the real Jack Whittaker isn't it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the real Jack Whittaker no teeth and a cowboy hat. That's him!
O'BRIEN: Well, all right. Well, congratulations to you all, it's a wonderful day. I'm glad -- what a way end a traumatic year. How do you put it into words? I don't know. What's...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank, Jesus.
O'BRIEN: There you go. Well, we appreciate you being with us. Thanks and good luck, and don't answer the phone too much. There will be a lot of people calling you up, a lot of long-lost friends, I think.
All right, we're going to take a break on TALKBACK LIVE and continue hop-scotching the world for a series of subjects. Some light, some heavy. Stay with us for more. We'll bring our panel back in and talk about, well, whatever's on your mind. What is on your mind, besides the lottery? She should have won! That's it!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: We're back on the air, Otto. Otto, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) all during the break, we'll hear from him in a moment. I promise you we'll share what Otto had to say about North Korea. The question is, is North Korea trying to coax the U.S. into normalizing relations? That's Otto's theory pretty much. But we'll hear from the doctor Otto shortly about that.
Pyongyang is revising a nuclear program frozen since 1994, moving fuel rods to a reactor capable of producing weapons grade plutonium. That's the bad stuff. The chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency thinks it's all political. Saying and we are quoting here, "I think unfortunately this is a situation of nuclear brinkmanship. I think they're using nuclear capability to achieve a political end which is highly unacceptable."
Now one official monitoring the situation says it's like a striptease. A striptease that's right. It's designed to engage the U.S. I don't know if that's going to work. He says it's unlikely to get a rise out of the Bush administration. So to speak.
Let's bring on our panel now, shall we? Who writes that stuff? Sharol (ph) thank you very much for that one.
Tom Marr, is a radio talk show host on WCBN in Baltimore, or is it BCM, one of those? I have dyslexia. So, I don't know which. And WOR in New York which I do know. Jeffrey Jacobovitz is a Washington trail attorney, I am dying out here guys. And Father Stan Fartuna (ph) is a Catholic priest headed of Francesco Productions. Lincoln Ware, host of the Lincoln Ware show WDBZ in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Thank you all for being with us. I am sorry about any inaccuracies I might have dispensed there, but we will deal with that in a moment.
Who wants to start on North Korea?
(CROSSTALK)
Oh, they all do! Imagine that? Lincoln, you go. LINCOLN WARE, WDBZ RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I tell you, it's nothing more than, the North Koreans right now, they're freezing, they're starving. Their using nothing more than a trump card to get the U.S. to open up oil, let oil flow freely into North Korea. They need money, they need food. Nothing more than a ploy using their trump card to help the people of North Korea. Simple as that.
TOM MARR, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST WCBM: Lincoln is exactly right. The North Koreans rattle their sabers because of the Clinton administration and mistakes they made, big, big mistakes in the middle '90s. They're in a position to do this right now and we ought to tell them, they're not going to do it. What they're looking for, you're right. Their people are starving, but they do export terrorism in a different way than in the Middle East. They sell their missiles, they keep people starving while they develop weapons of mass destruction. Sooner or later, somebody's going to have to deal with it.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Father Stan, Father Stan, get in there.
FATHER STAN, FRANCESCO PRODUCTIONS: The whole thing boils down to communication. A lot of times we have trouble communicating in our own country with stuff that going on with things like abortion and stuff like that, were looking at big things going on here. Big questions. We don't know what's really being said or meant and intended. So a lot of it sup in the air.
O'BRIEN: Jeff, you go now.
JEFFERY JACOBOVITZ, TRIAL ATTORNEY: OK. What's going on here is that North Korea was labeled one of the axis of evil and they need aid and assistance, and they're trying to threaten us with nuclear brinkmanship. But the danger is, they do sell these weapons. They could sell the plutonium, they could sell Scud missiles to Yemen and they could sent it all though out the world, to people we don't want to have this kind of activity going on.
And so what are we going to do about it? The question is, how strong do we act with them? Do act as strongly as Rumsfeld said we should act? I don't think so. But what can we do to assuade the situation?
MARR: What did Donald Rumsfeld say?
JACOBOVITZ: Basically starting a second war with North Korea.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: No, we can't.
Let's get Otto in here. Because Otto has some very good points. Go.
OTTO: One of the things I see is the United States is the only remaining superpower in the world, and as a consequence, they can make things happen by bringing pressure on a situation such as is occurring with North Korea. Therefore, what the United States is doing in bringing this to a head without, at this point threatening I don't think, actual physical action is the right way to go to get something moving.
O'BRIEN: Lincoln, go
WARE: There won't be any type of military skirmish breaking out or anything like that. It will be negotiated. And because we can't spend time with North Korea when we're trying to fight Iraq. And I think they know that. So this is the right time make the move they're making to get a response from the U.S.
O'BRIEN: Chris (ph). Lets get an audience member. Chris (ph), go.
CHRIS: My question is this -- the United States has been doing a lot of things throughout the years, and this is just like the first gentleman said, a ploy for North Korea to get attention, draw attention to themselves, so that they can get back into the mainstream of things. But how can the United States cry foul when actually they would threaten other countries to take away their financial aid and this, that and the other? So how can they get back into the mainstream of things?
O'BRIEN: Tom, go ahead.
MARR: When we give the financial aid we have the right to take it back, that's No. 1. And we gave the North Korean financial aid they did not deserve during the Clinton administration, that's why they're able to rattling swords like they rattle them now. Diplomaticly they have a problem with the Chinese with what they are doing, they have a problem with Taiwan and our allies in Japan. We can take care of both at the same time and we will.
O'BRIEN: All right, Steve (ph), go.
Steve (ph) in the audience, go.
STEVE: I just think it's pointless to go into talks with North Korea if in the past they've shown they can't be trusted and in the future, I don't think anything good can come out of that since they've broken their agreements.
Father Stan? No. Go, Jeff.
JACOBOVITZ: There have been a number of countries we've talked to who have broken agreements in the past. Unfortunately, you have to deal with the world as a realistic -- in a realistic way. That's what negotiation is all about. I think the U.S. is trying to get China involved, actually, to take role in trying to lessen the concern here.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBOVITZ: But we have to deal with North Korea and whether...
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBOVITZ: Whether somebody blames Clinton or somebody blames Bush, it's a realistic problem that needs dealt with immediately, and the fact, there could be a greater problem than Iraq. We're focusing on Iraq when maybe we should focus on North Korea.
O'BRIEN: All right, John (ph). Quick audience member comment. John (ph), go.
JOHN: I wonder, if we do something here for North Korea what keeps us from being held, it's almost international blackmail. I mean, what would stop any other country from doing this to us later on?
O'BRIEN: Lincoln.
MARR: It's nuclear blackmail and we shouldn't give in to it and should take care of Saddam Hussein, who's already used the weapons of mass destruction.
WARE: We could fight on both fronts but do we really want to fight on both fronts? I say negotiate with North Korea and do whatever you want to do with Saddam in Iraq.
MARR: I agree. Negotiate with him, but you might have to smack him down, too.
O'BRIEN: Guys, take a break. In the words of Rodney King, why can't we all get along, for gosh sake?
It's time to take a break. Coming up -- do you know this man? Do you know who this is? Anybody want to guess? No? We'll find out what scientists say about this very famous person. Who is it? Who do you think? Him.
All right. Stay with us. We'll reveal the secret. You won't guess it. I guarantee it!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back. TALKBACK LIVE. All right.
I told the audience in the break I wonder if you folks at home guessed who that person was. You probably won't guess. That is -- well, a common face at the time of Jesus, and, thus, according to the editors of "Popular Mechanics" magazine might very well be close to what Jesus looked like.
That's what they did. This magazine put together a group of experts, forensic anthropologists they call them. They did a little bit of historic sleuthing. They used the remnants of a skull dating back to the First Century, some commuter imaging, on and on and this is what they basically said was ,The typical Semite of Jesus' era. He is a peasant with dark olive skin, short, curly hair, prominent nose. Investigators say he would have been about 5'1, weighing 110 pounds. Not exactly what we've been taught was Jesus. Panelists -- Father Stan, you've got to go first on this one, because quite, frankly, you look more of the popular conceptions of what Jesus would look like! So, are you bummed? I mean, come on.
FATHER STAN: I think this is a great thing. This is great, great, great thing to see a secular magazine wondering about contemplating the face of Jesus. Their forensic anthropology, of course, doesn't penetrate the mystery. But you can put that camera around the room over there and look at all the faces in the room over there and go out into the street, look at the poor in the street and you'll get a realer glimpse of what Jesus really looks like than what these forensic anthropologists are doing.
O'BRIEN: All right, Sheri (ph), quickly. Go Sheri (ph).
SHERI: I disagree totally with you only because in a country where there isn't even intermarriage with different nationalities, people look entirely different. They look entirely different. It would be anyone.
O'BRIEN: All right. Lincoln, go. Lincoln.
WARE: I think the Father will admit, he's probably a little disappointed of this new rendition of Jesus. I think he wanted this picture to look a little bit more looked like he looks, and as well as my other three panelists there.
Let's face it. You did not want this picture to come looking like it like it looks. Am I correct?
O'BRIEN: What are you saying, Lincoln?
WARE: What I'm saying is, this first image we had of Jesus, long, blond hair, blue eyes. That's the image you really wanted us to see today.
(CROSSTALK)
WARE: You're a little disappointed. I know you might not want to admit it on CNN.
FATHER STAN: Anybody that's going to live out in the desert -- you ever been in Jerusalem? The sun is hot. There's no white skin out there.
WARE: That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
WARE: ...a picture of this long, blond haired, blue eyed Jesus!
(CROSSTALK)
MARR: A true Christian doesn't care what Jesus looked like. By the way, the call letters of WCBN in Baltimore and WOR in New York. And I'll be doing the great Rob Grant (ph) Show in about one hour. O'BRIEN: Thank you. Thank you. All right, Tom. I appreciate it.
Go ahead, Jim (ph). Go, weigh in.
JIM: hat's exactly the point. I mean, in everyone's mind they can, you know, -- they can form their own opinions and thoughts and beliefs and what he looks like or whatever. It doesn't matter how you relate to him, how you relate to your beliefs and the faith that you have is going to determine wherever you end up. That's all that...
O'BRIEN: We got to wrap it up. We got to wrap it up with that one.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Let's leave it at that. Let's leave it at that. All right.
We are got to take a break. Panelists, stay there. Don't go away. I want to know what you would do with the Powerball winnings. If you won the Powerball jackpot how would you spend the money? You have about 30 seconds to come up with an answer. Take you a little longer than that to spend it, we hope.
Call 1-800-310-4cnn and e-mail talkback@cnn.com. Break time. We'll be back with more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: All right. We are back. We're back. We're back.
We've had all kinds of crazy ideas about what people would do. Al over there wants to buy CNN. He said the first thing he'd do is fire me. Actually, I've kind of counseled him on that.
Any -- "Questions of the Day": If you had won the Powerball, what would you do with the money?
Analysts, upper left on our Hollywood Squares of the day. Father Stan, go.
FATHER STAN: I'd open up a cultural center in the South Bronx that could generate money and go out to the poor and help all kinds of people do all kinds of things and keep it going.
O'BRIEN: You got to give it up for Father Stan -- Jeff.
JACOBOVITZ: I would spend more time with my family, money for charity and buy an NBA franchise.
O'BRIEN: Tom. That's a good one. Tom, go.
MARR: I would take care of my family, take care of charities and broker time on WOR in New York and WCBN in Baltimore.
O'BRIEN: Glad you got those call letters in there. Lincoln.
WARE: Well, I would take care of my family, buy an NFL franchise because, as you know, living here in Cincinnati, you don't have to do anything to make money. You don't even have to win. That's what I would do.
O'BRIEN: All right, panelists, thank you very much, joining us on this day after Christmas. Always a pleasure.
Audience, you guys are great. Thanks for being with us. Give yourselves a round of applause.
We are out of time. Thank you for watching. I'm Miles O'Brien. Arthel Neville out today. I'll be here again tomorrow, 3:00 Eastern. We hope you will be as well.
Up next, Judy Woodruff and INSIDE POLITICS.
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