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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Can a Mafia Hit Man Make a Good Father?; Atheist Fights to Stay in Boy Scouts
Aired December 27, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening.
Tonight, we focus on families, in situations you might never have imagined: Susan Sarandon and the family that inspired her movie "Lorenzo's Oil"; a son trying to figure out how a professional Mafia hit man was also a good father; a mom standing by her son in his fight to stay in the Boy Scouts, even though he doesn't have the religious beliefs they want him to have.
We've also got the story of a pro football player who kept his secret from his teammates for years. Why? He felt he would be ridiculed if they found out.
But we start with a family story we aired just recently that all too many American families can understand. It's a story about the risk a mother was willing to let her daughter undergo because of the risks of obesity.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Most overweight kids become overweight adults. And obesity is a serious health risk; 18-year-old Courtney Dunham had gastric-bypass surgery in August. Since then, she's lost 59 pounds. She had the operation after her mother not only gave permission, but had the operation herself, the same operation Al Roker recently had and singer Carnie Wilson had.
Courtney Dunham joins us now, along with her mom, Karen Harris, and Courtney's surgeon, Dr. Victor Garcia, head of bariatric surgery at Cincinnati Children's Hospital.
Thank you all for being with us.
Courtney, I know you've been battling with this weight situation for a long, long time. When did you first decide to do something about it? What grade were you in? And why?
COURTNEY DUNHAM, UNDERWENT GASTRIC-BYPASS SURGERY: I started doing things around the fourth grade. It started out with Jenny Craig. I just got tired of being made fun of and constantly having to worry about my weight. And since then, it's just been a constant battle.
CHUNG: Was it really that difficult for you in school? Were kids giving you a terribly hard time?
DUNHAM: As I got older, it wasn't as bad, but there were still things like not being able to ride rides at King's Island or not feeling comfortable in public places.
CHUNG: But you decided, finally, at this moment, as a teenager -- you were what, 18 or 17 at the time?
DUNHAM: I was 17 at the time I made the decision.
CHUNG: To go ahead and have this surgery.
Weren't you afraid? You actually could have died from complications.
DUNHAM: Honestly, I was not afraid. It was just at a point in time in my life that I decided I needed to do something. And this seemed the best path for me to go.
CHUNG: How many other alternatives had you tried, everything in the book?
DUNHAM: Pretty much. I've tried every diet you can name, all the diet pills, exercise, watching what I eat.
CHUNG: Everything.
DUNHAM: Everything.
CHUNG: Mom, Karen, I know that it was probably hard for you to watch your daughter go through all of this and all the attempts to lose weight.
But, you know, I can see why you, as an adult, would have this operation. But, honestly, I would be afraid to have my child go through such surgery. What brought you the confidence to go ahead and say, yes, it's OK?
KAREN HARRIS, MOTHER OF COURTNEY: Well, Dr. Garcia and Dr. Inge are the ones that did the surgery. And they are the best. And they have a wonderful program at Cincinnati Children's Hospital that not only had the surgery, but they incorporate a whole program with it, that it's just not learning how to lose the weight after the surgery. It's learning how to change all the habits.
And, besides, she came to me and said, "I'm going to do this with or without your blessing." And I figured, let's do it with the best while we can still do it, so she doesn't go to some chop shop and have it done.
CHUNG: Dr. Garcia, what are the potential risks and the dangers?
DR. VICTOR GARCIA, CINCINNATI CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Well, the most obvious one, Connie, is the risk of death.
But that actually is decidedly low. There's enough experience. This is an operation that has evolved over some 20 to 30 years. And with, really, a number of individuals assisting us, the surgery can be performed in a fairly safe fashion, with minimal risk of death. But there are other complications, both short-term and long-term, that any patient must be aware of.
And this is why we insist that an operation of this nature, particularly in a child, is something that must be done only as a last resort.
CHUNG: But what are the long-term effects? You don't know, do you?
GARCIA: Well, we do know the long-term effects from young adults who have undergone the operation.
First and foremost is, is that it is the most effective way to establish sustained weight loss. There is no other nonsurgical modality that parallels the success of bariatric surgery, as is performed currently in most centers throughout the United States, to have an individual, for the next 18 to 20 years, to keep the weight off.
But the other long-term effects that we make our patients aware of are the nutritional consequences if they do not take their nutritional supplements as we prescribe. And, finally, not every patient will keep the weight off. This is effective for about 80 to 90 percent. And there are some 20 to 10 percent of patients who will regain the weight.
CHUNG: Courtney, I know that your stomach was the size of a deflated football, but now it's the size of an egg. What do you eat and how much do you eat?
DUNHAM: I generally eat about a cup of food at a time. And I mainly stick to protein foods. As I get further out from surgery, they incorporate things like the vegetables and things to have a well- balanced meal. The most popular foods on my menu are chicken and turkey.
CHUNG: And, Mom, I know you have a 16-year-old daughter...
HARRIS: Yes.
CHUNG: ... who is a touch overweight. But, actually, the fact that both of you had the operation has had an impact on her.
HARRIS: Yes, it has. She's actually losing weight along with us. She'll tell you it's because we're starving her to death.
(LAUGHTER)
HARRIS: But she's learning how to eat the right way also.
CHUNG: Are both of you OK, do you think? Are you healthy?
HARRIS: Yes.
DUNHAM: Yes.
CHUNG: Good.
All right, well, we thank you so much for being with us. And we wish you well. Maybe we'll check in with you some time, all right?
HARRIS: OK. Thank you.
DUNHAM: Thanks.
CHUNG: All right, Karen, Courtney, thank you.
And, Dr. Garcia, thank you as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: By some estimates, more than 60,000 people will have had gastric-bypass surgery in the U.S. this year.
When we come back: what some big, tough pro football players are afraid of in the locker room and how one player dealt with it.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This fall, I spoke with a former pro football player who carried a secret with him into the locker room, a secret that would have gotten him ridiculed, condemned, and ostracized.
Drugs? Stealing? Beating someone up? That stuff is not all that unusual. In the world of pro football, his secret was worse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): In the testosterone-driven world of sports, games are often referred to as wars and the players compared to gladiators. As a defensive lineman, Esera Tuaolo was one of those gladiators, engaging in football's version of trench warfare every Sunday. He played for five different teams in nine NFL seasons.
And, on Tuesday night, he told the world he is gay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "REAL SPORTS")
ESERA TUAOLO, FORMER NFL PLAYER: I am a gay NFL -- well, former NFL player.
BERNARD GOLDBERG, HBO REPORTER: How do you feel about that?
TUAOLO: I feel wonderful. I feel like a burden has been lifted. I feel like I've taken off this costume that I've been wearing all my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tuaolo's life now revolves around his partner, Mitchell, and their 2-year-old adopted twins. When teammates would see Tuaolo with Mitchell, the two would lie and say Mitchell was an agent, manager or friend, fearing what might happen if anyone found out the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "REAL SPORTS")
TUAOLO: No. 1, I'd get hurt. No. 2, my...
GOLDBERG: What do you mean?
TUAOLO: Well, get hurt in the fact that maybe somebody would take me out.
GOLDBERG: You mean go for your knees?
TUAOLO: Go for my knees, try to hurt me.
GOLDBERG: Because you're gay?
TUAOLO: Because I'm gay.
STERLING SHARPE, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Had he come out on a Monday, with Wednesday, Thursday, Friday practices, he'd have never gotten to the other team -- ever.
GOLDBERG: His own guys would have cheap-shotted him?
SHARPE: He would have never gotten to the game on Sunday.
GOLDBERG: So he's finished.
SHARPE: He's done. He would have been eaten alive. And he would have been hated for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: While he's one of the few to admit he's gay, Tuaolo is not the first former NFL player to break sport's great taboo. Dave Kopay, once a ferocious running back in the NFL, announced he was gay in 1975, three years after his retirement.
In other professional sports, the list of openly gay athletes is also a short one, but includes names like Bill Tilden, winner of 10 major tennis titles during the golden age of sports in the 1920s; Martina Navratilova, considered by many the greatest female tennis player ever; and four-time Olympic diving gold medalist Greg Louganis. The figure skating community also includes many homosexuals and was devastated by the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s and '90s.
Recently, a pair of sport's most high-profile athletes have publicly defended themselves amidst whispers that they were gay. Pittsburgh Steelers Pro Bowl quarterback Kordell Stewart told a national magazine that he is -- quote -- "100 percent man." Earlier this year, New York Mets star Mike Piazza responded to a speculative magazine article which indirectly questioned his sexuality.
MIKE PIAZZA, NEW YORK METS: The truth is that I'm heterosexual and date women. And that's it.
CHUNG: Piazza's remarks were probably directed more towards his teammates than the public.
In a sports world that forgives drug abusers and wife beaters, Piazza needed to vindicate himself of what might be considered far worse: being gay.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Here with us now: Esera Tuaolo.
Thank you so much for being with us.
TUAOLO: Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: Hey, big guy. You're just a little-bitty thing, right? Oh, my gosh.
TUAOLO: I'm very petite where I'm from.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Yes, you are.
When I read about your story, I was just so moved, because it really affected you. You were keeping a secret that was very, very hard for you to hold inside. But, at the same time, you couldn't let it out. It took an emotional toll.
TUAOLO: Very. Very.
CHUNG: How bad was that toll?
TUAOLO: Personally, it was very, very difficult just to live in a world of anxiety and pain and just -- and keeping the secret. It was very hard. It was very hard.
CHUNG: Why did you feel you needed to keep it a secret, especially your teammates?
TUAOLO: You know, right now, I don't think the NFL was ready or anybody was ready for a gay NFL player. And I'm talking during the times that I was playing, the years that I played. I played for nine years in the NFL. So it was -- I didn't feel that they were ready for it.
CHUNG: When you say you don't think that they were ready for it, do you believe that most of the players are homophobic?
TUAOLO: Well, you know, just from hearing some of the comments out there prior to me coming out and stuff -- I'm not sure if you have read some of the media and stuff -- it was some negative things that were said, and then also during my special with -- what Sterling Sharpe said, it kind of gives you a little picture of what type of arena that I was playing in.
And the NFL is such a physical sport, a sport of gladiators and stuff. So, in my nine years playing, I never felt comfortable or any time that I could come out and just be myself. It was -- every day was just a big act.
CHUNG: And you were basically living a lie?
TUAOLO: Very much living a lie.
CHUNG: Did you almost try and kill yourself because of this?
TUAOLO: Yes. Alcohol helped to ease the pain. Or sometimes alcohol was used to just drink to -- and just kind of pray and hope that I don't wake up.
CHUNG: Are you OK?
TUAOLO: I'm fine.
You know, driving home from the club and stuff about 100 miles an hour, and just thinking about turning that wheel and then ending it all. But thank God for my mom. She is the reason for the season. And I love her so much and stuff. And I just always -- she always popped into my head when something like that happened.
CHUNG: Tell me, why do you tear up when you talk about it?
TUAOLO: Well, sitting here talking to you, Connie, it just takes you back. It takes you back to how I felt back then. That's why.
CHUNG: Very painful.
TUAOLO: Very painful. And it's something that I can't explain to anybody until they've lived in my shoes.
CHUNG: Do you really believe that, if you had come out while you were playing for the NFL, that you would have been kicked out, or what?
TUAOLO: Well, just a couple of things. No. 1, I think I would have been released. I would have been cut. No. 2, I think I would have got hurt. Another one would be, I think -- the NFL is all about team. And I think I would have corrupted, well...
CHUNG: You would have corrupted them?
(LAUGHTER) TUAOLO: Yes, exactly, just because of my secret and stuff. And, also, it wasn't -- I don't think it was time for me to come out during that time.
CHUNG: And how are you feeling now?
TUAOLO: I feel great.
CHUNG: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Do you really feel as if a load has been taken off your shoulders?
TUAOLO: Oh, my gosh, yes. I feel wonderful.
And one of the reasons why I feel wonderful is, I feel wonderful that I can -- just being able to live my life with my family. And when I say my family, I'm saying my two beautiful children and my partner. And we don't have to fake it anymore. We don't have to sugarcoat anything. We can just live our lives the way we want to live our lives.
And that itself is a beautiful thing, because it's just -- everybody's quest in life is to be happy. And I can tell you right now that I'm very happy.
CHUNG: Yes, but when you walk down the street, do people still kind of stare at the two of you?
TUAOLO: You know what? This has happened so quickly. And things are -- we haven't really had the opportunity to live our life in such openness. But it's going to be interesting, because it's something that we have to get used to, too. But the fun thing about it is that we're going to be doing it together. And so that's really, really exciting.
CHUNG: I'm so happy for you.
And you're a great singer. We should let you -- you should come some time and just sing for us.
TUAOLO: OK, sounds great.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: OK?
TUAOLO: Yes, sounds great. Thank you very much.
CHUNG: All right, thank you. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: By the way, we can't confirm this, but his press people tell us they believe some players in the NFL are right now considering coming out.
When we come back: Does being a Mafia hit man make a man a bad father? We'll ask the son.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This year, "The Sopranos" focused, as it has to varying degrees, on family relationships, not the Mafia family, the don's family, Tony Soprano, the wife and the kids.
Is it possible for a man who spends his days and nights extorting money from honest people, breaking legs and the law, stealing, peddling pornography, and killing people, can that man come home and be a good father?
Well, those are the questions Albert DeMeo asks about his father, Roy, a member of the Gambino family, in his new book, "For the Sins of My Father."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Thank you so much for being with us.
ALBERT DEMEO, AUTHOR, "FOR THE SINS OF MY FATHER": Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: You were really close to your father. Tell me about him.
DEMEO: Well, he was a young father. He was very good to his children. He took us and did all the things that regular fathers, so to speak, do with their kids. We went to the playground, the park, all those things. He was always there for us. And he was there for Sunday dinners and all that.
CHUNG: So what did you think he did for a living?
DEMEO: That question was very tough for me throughout my young life. In school, you get that question from a teacher. She says, "Today we're going to write a report on what our fathers do for a living." And I had no answer for that.
CHUNG: Is it because you didn't know or you knew and you couldn't say?
DEMEO: I didn't know. There were too many things. I had little snippets of occupations, but I didn't have one occupation that I could pin on him.
CHUNG: When did you first realize what your father did for a living, that he worked for the Mafia?
DEMEO: Like I said, it was a slow progression.
But the final nail in that coffin, so to speak, was around 1976, when Carlo Gambino passed away. I'm watching the TV. And I see the funeral of Carlo Gambino, head of the Mafia. And I see my father coming out of the church at a funeral parlor. And I'm like, "Oh, so that's the name for what my father does." And then I had a name for it. I didn't understand what it was. I said: "OK, there's a name to it now. He's in the Mafia."
CHUNG: You helped him in some way or another here and there.
DEMEO: Right.
CHUNG: You actually picked up money when you were how old?
DEMEO: The first time I made collections, I was about 14 years old.
CHUNG: Did you know what you were doing then?
DEMEO: The circumstances that surrounded me doing that, they were like desperate times, where my father was kind on the downswing in his criminal career, or career in the mob, or whatever.
And he needed -- he kind of expressed to me that he didn't trust anyone else and I had to just do these things. So that's what I did. I didn't really question it at that point.
CHUNG: So here you are a teenager and you're picking up thousands of dollars in cash.
DEMEO: Right.
CHUNG: Were you scared, you know, bringing it home?
DEMEO: No. It was unbelievable. I look back now and I try to say, how did I muster the strength and the...
CHUNG: Yes.
DEMEO: ... will to do these things then, when I can't even really fathom doing them now? So I guess it's kind of the naivete of being a child, too. So I guess that helped me deal at that time.
CHUNG: You're 17 years old.
DEMEO: Right.
CHUNG: There's a knock at your front door. It's the FBI. What did the agents tell you?
DEMEO: I walked to that door. They asked me my name. They said, "Albert DeMeo?"
I said, "Yes."
And they said: "We found your father shot and stuffed into the trunk of his car. And his friends did it."
CHUNG: Did you know that there was a chance your father might be killed?
DEMEO: He said to me -- he said, "After tomorrow, I'm not going to be around anymore."
CHUNG: He said that point blank?
DEMEO: Point blank, yes. And I kind of -- in my heart, I was kind of like trying to fool myself, think, "OK, he's going to disappear and he's going to make me think that he's dead so I could be believable if someone asks me."
So, like for that day and that night, I was like, all right, this is what's going to happen. And I fooled myself. And for years leading up to this, I felt that that day would come that my father would be killed.
CHUNG: About 10 years ago, a book was written that just spilled all the information. It revealed that your father had murdered as many as 200 people. He was a hit man.
DEMEO: Right.
CHUNG: What did that do to you?
DEMEO: I went through all these years of dealing with the trials and dealing with all this stuff. Everything died down. And now I got to get this book throwing it in my face again. So it really threw me off track.
CHUNG: I know that it reached real depths. How low did you go?
DEMEO: I went so low as to attempt suicide. Basically, one day after my wife went to work, I went into the garage with a gun, put a bullet in the cylinder, spun it, put it to my head, and pulled the trigger. And it didn't -- obviously, I didn't kill myself.
CHUNG: As you look back, do you have a hatred for your father?
DEMEO: It's taken -- obviously, it's taken a long time for me to even talk about it. I mean, I couldn't even talk about it with my friends. And here I am, in a very public format, speaking of it.
I went into therapy. It took a long time to bring it up, just to deal with it. And writing the book was a great catharsis for me. And I'm at the point now where I'm very angry at my father's choices that he made in life.
CHUNG: Did you innately know that this was not the kind of life you wanted to live?
DEMEO: Definitely not. I mean, I wouldn't -- I never would want to live that kind of life. There's no redeeming qualities in it.
CHUNG: How do you think your father was able to murder as many as 200 people, take people for rides as a loan shark, and, at the same time, be such a loving father to you and your sisters and your mother? DEMEO: I think, when you see the worst things in this world that there are that can happen, I think you only want the best for the people that you love. It's a very selfish thing, though. But I kind of think that's what it was.
CHUNG: You know, all of us see these movies, "The Godfather," "Goodfellas." And now, of course, "The Sopranos" is on HBO. Do we have a clearly wrong impression of the Mafia? Or are they portrayed accurately?
DEMEO: Well, I think "The Sopranos" portrays the modern mob in a very realistic light, definitely, so much so that, when I watched it sometimes, I had to shut it off because it hits too close to home.
CHUNG: Really?
DEMEO: Yes. It just shows that these people, they're normal people. They have crabgrass. They have arguments with their wives. Their children do things they don't want them to do. And it just shows that dichotomy, that they step through that door and they have a different life than they have on the street. So there it is.
CHUNG: It is your life.
DEMEO: It's very scary. It is very similar.
CHUNG: All right, well, thank you so much.
DEMEO: Thank you.
CHUNG: We really appreciate your being with us.
DEMEO: Thank you for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: A quick note about another Gambino big shot and his family: Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, whose testimony against John Gotti helped send him to prison, this year went back to prison for running a drug-dealing ring. His wife, son, and daughter also are in the slammer.
And when we come back: A mother and her son fight back when the Boy Scouts kick him out for not having the right religious beliefs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This year, the Boy Scouts kicked out a member who had earned 37 merit badges, done more than 1,000 hours of community service, and reached the highest rank, Eagle Scout. They had given him a one-week deadline to declare his belief in God or some other supernatural entity or get out.
The Boy Scouts declined to come on our program, but released a statement saying in part -- quote -- "In the Boy Scout oath, a Scout recognizes his duty to God. And the Scout law requires a Scout to be reverent. All that is required is the acknowledgement of belief in God, as stated in the oath, and the ability to be reverent, as stated in the Scout law."
We spoke with 19-year-old Darrell Lambert and his mother, Trish, just as his deadline expired.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Thank you for being with us.
Darrell, I understand you just got word. What did you learn?
DARRELL LAMBERT, EAGLE SCOUT: Well, on the way over here, I called -- I called Brad Farmer, our council executive. And he told me that, since my beliefs have stayed the same for the past two weeks -- or week and a half -- that I am no longer welcome in scouting and that my registration will be sent back to me and I'll get my letter in a couple days.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh. Well, how do you feel about that?
D. LAMBERT: I think it's a disgrace. It's the wrong thing to do. And I'm preparing to fight it. I'll go to the appeals and the regional office, and national, if I have to go there.
CHUNG: So you can no longer be a part of the Boy Scouts. But you do serve also as a volunteer, correct?
D. LAMBERT: Right.
CHUNG: What about that aspect of your Boy Scout duty?
D. LAMBERT: I don't know if I have to disassociate myself with the troop. My troop has expressed that they want me to stay. So I'll try to do that. But I asked them, the Chief Seattle Council, back on Wednesday if I had to drop out if they sent back my registration. And they haven't got back to me. They didn't say if I could just be an unregistered leader.
CHUNG: All right.
Let's go back in time, then. When you became an Eagle Scout in April of 2001, what did you tell them about your beliefs?
D. LAMBERT: At my Eagle board, at the end of it, I told them that I didn't believe in God. And they still passed me. They even commended me on my honesty and courage to say something. I elected to say it out of my own free will.
CHUNG: So, was it your belief at that time that, even though you didn't believe in God and you knew what the rules were at the Boy Scouts, that this was fine?
D. LAMBERT: Yes. I didn't think they'd actually kick someone out for them. So I just -- I didn't think that they would do something like that. CHUNG: Why didn't you, Darrell, because you know the rules? You're an Eagle Scout. And if you know all the rules to abide by and all the merits, then you should know that that's a requirement.
D. LAMBERT: Well, the main thing that they're saying is that I don't abide by the Scout oath, "duty to God." Well, if you read more into the Scout oath, it say that you are supposed to be physically strong, which includes mental and physical fitness. We're not kicking people out for not exercising regularly, are we?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Well, that's a good point.
D. LAMBERT: It says it right there in the Scout oath.
CHUNG: I see.
D. LAMBERT: The Chief Seattle Council is telling me that I'm picking and choosing what laws or rules I'm abiding by, but so are they. So they're not exactly being fair.
CHUNG: What do you believe in? Do you believe in any higher being?
D. LAMBERT: No, I don't. I don't believe that there's any ruling or guiding force in the universe. I believe in science. And I just don't believe in a God.
CHUNG: When did this belief start? Did you used to go to church when you were a kid?
D. LAMBERT: I never really went to a church. Before ninth grade or before I was about 14, I was agnostic. I wasn't really sure what I believed in. I researched a lot into it, learning more about religion and the science aspect of things, not saying they have to compete with each other.
And I went to church youth group and different things like that, Bible study classes. And I just came to the point where evolution all seemed to make sense. And I generally believe in the physical parameters. If I can't see it or that kind of stuff, I don't necessarily believe in it too well.
CHUNG: Trish, do you believe in God?
TRISH LAMBERT, MOTHER OF DARRELL: Yes, I would say I do -- or a higher deity.
CHUNG: Do you go to church?
T. LAMBERT: I don't go to church.
CHUNG: Oh, you don't?
T. LAMBERT: No, I don't. No. CHUNG: What about Darrell's father and your daughter as well? Do they believe in God?
T. LAMBERT: My husband, no. He doesn't either. And one of my daughters doesn't either. The other one is probably agnostic, I would say.
CHUNG: Where do you think your son developed this line of thinking?
T. LAMBERT: From school, doing science and biology in school. He's always been interested in sciences and that sort of thing. And, to him, it was evolution.
CHUNG: And what do you think of his determination here to fight it?
T. LAMBERT: You know what? I think it's really good. And Darrell is not just fighting this for himself. He's fighting this for all the Scouts that have no real belief in God.
CHUNG: Darrell, are you going to appeal?
D. LAMBERT: Yes. I'll appeal it to regional and then national, if I have to.
CHUNG: And if it's taken to national, is that just about the full extent of the path you can go?
D. LAMBERT: Within the organization, that's about as far as you can go.
CHUNG: And would you be willing to go out and file some kind of lawsuit, if you could?
D. LAMBERT: I haven't gotten enough information on that to really answer the question. But I have been talking to different attorneys that have fought this issue before, just getting advice from them.
CHUNG: All right. Are you demoralized in any way?
D. LAMBERT: No, not at all.
CHUNG: And you sound kind of determined.
D. LAMBERT: Yes, very much so.
CHUNG: All right, Darrell Lambert and Trish Lambert, thank you so much for being with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Darrell is still fighting. Meanwhile, the Boy Scouts have informed him he's not even permitted to participate or attend Scout activities as a nonmember. When we come back: Susan Sarandon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: In the movie "Lorenzo's Oil," Susan Sarandon played a mother who fought the medical establishment to save her son.
It was based on the true story of Michaela and Augusto Odone, who ultimately came up with a treatment to save their son, Lorenzo, from a debilitating, fatal illness. It became known as Lorenzo's oil and inspired the true-to-life movie. Nevertheless, the family's triumph didn't convince everyone of the treatment's effectiveness.
But, recently, CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reported on a new study that suggests Lorenzo's oil not only saved Lorenzo; it's been saving a lot more people since then.
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ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This man and this man have the same disease. So, why is one the picture of health, while the other can't move or talk or eat? The answer: Lorenzo's oil, says Michael Benton.
He took the oil early on in his fight with adrenal leukodystrophy. Lorenzo Odone, on the other hand, took it too late to stave off the symptoms, although he's lived longer than doctors had expected. His parents' quest to find a cure was dramatized in the 1993 movie "Lorenzo's Oil." Doctors had told Lorenzo's parents there was no hope. They didn't believe the doctors and, bucking the medical establishment, searched for a treatment on their own for Lorenzo.
MICHAEL BENTON, ALD PATIENT: If it wasn't for him, this oil wouldn't have been created. And so, it was an emotional thing for me to see him. And it just made me so thankful that I'm not in that state right now.
COHEN: Up until now, the oil's success was anecdotal.
Now it's scientific. A study done by Johns Hopkins shows that patients with the gene with adrenal leukodystrophy, or ALD, were two- thirds less likely to get sick if they took the oil. But they have to take the oil in time, before they develop symptoms of the disease -- finally, satisfaction for Augusto Odone. The movie describes how doctors laughed at him for thinking an oil could cure a genetic disorder.
AUGUSTO ODONE, DISCOVERED LORENZO'S OIL: This skepticism remained until the study. Now they are changing their mind.
COHEN: Odone and his wife, Michaela, who has since passed away, didn't care if doctors laughed. They had a mission.
ODONE: This is a love story. If you know that you are going to be hanged the next day, your mind focus beautifully. And we had no time for Lorenzo. COHEN: And forever in his debt, Michael's mother: Patty Chapman (ph). The gene for ALD has haunted her family. As a little girl, she watched her brother Bobby die of ALD when he was 4 years old. Her other brother, Richard, died of ALD when he was 44.
Genetic testing showed she was a carrier. Females don't get sick. More testing showed she passed the disease on to her son Michael, but not to his two brothers. Doctors told her there was nothing they could do for Michael. Then, when he was 7, Patty met Augusto Odone at a medical conference and started giving Michael the oil. He's taken it every day since.
BENTON: I find it amazing that Michaela and Augusto were able to develop something just on their sheer will.
COHEN: Will and tough work: The Odones' research found that the fat in olive and rapeseed oils could break up the long chains of fatty acids that cause the neurological damage in ALD patients. The acids do their damage by breaking down the coating of neurons called myelin. So, Michael takes the oil and has to watch his diet. Too much of certain kinds of fat can counteract the oil. He also has to be vigilant about seeing the doctor, because the oil can have serious side effects.
There are still people who say the oil doesn't work, that people like Michael are just in the lucky group of men who carry the gene, but don't get sick. But Michael's mother doesn't believe this. She asked: Why not take the oil?
PATTY CHAPMAN, MOTHER OF MICHAEL BENTON: The negatives were so minimal and there was no other choice.
COHEN: She's seen the alternative: death. And she didn't wait for a study. She chose a chance at life for her son.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
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CHUNG: Lorenzo's father, Augusto, has devoted his life to researching myelin-related disease as head of the Myelin Project. And he joins us now with actress Susan Sarandon, who played Lorenzo's dedicated mother in the movie "Lorenzo's Oil."
Thank you both for being with us.
SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS: Thank you for having us.
AUGUSTO ODONE, FATHER OF LORENZO: Thank you.
CHUNG: Susan, Michaela was an amazing woman. She died, though, of course, two years ago, maybe, what -- it's been 10 years since the movie.
Why were you...
SARANDON: I only can remember that because I was pregnant at the time. And I have a 10-year-old son.
CHUNG: There you go.
SARANDON: Then I always know how long ago it was.
CHUNG: There you go.
Why were you drawn to her character?
SARANDON: I was so attracted to the idea of these people who just asked questions.
In our country, we have a tendency not to question authority.
CHUNG: Yes.
SARANDON: Now it's breaking down a little as all of the CEOs are toppling from the top of these corporations. And lawyers are -- you know.
But, in Italy, their conditioning was to ask questions to try to see what they could do to not accept, necessarily, this death sentence that had been given amongst the diagnosis. They wanted to understand. And I found that so compelling.
CHUNG: Augusto, tell us how Lorenzo is. He's 24 years old now.
ODONE: Yes. He's 24 years old. He was -- the doctors predicted that he would die 18 years ago.
CHUNG: Eighteen years ago.
ODONE: Yes. And, contrary to their prediction, Lorenzo is still alive.
CHUNG: Is he able to respond to you if you ask a question?
ODONE: Well, yesterday, I was caressing his face and he started to vocalize, to make a "Mmm." And I was, of course, answering, "Mmm." So, it went on for five minutes. Then, what he can do is to turn his head.
CHUNG: He can turn his head?
ODONE: Yes, and then also to sit on the wheelchair, of course, and then to listen to music. He loves listening to music and also to be read to.
CHUNG: Yes, which Michaela did a lot.
ODONE: Yes.
CHUNG: Reading to him. ODONE: And Michaela, when she knew that she was going to die, she left some tapes for Lorenzo. And so I'm playing the tapes now and then.
CHUNG: Was it Michaela who told him that she was very ill, or did you?
ODONE: Well, it was Michaela and then it was me. And then we told him that, "She has gone to baby Jesus."
CHUNG: It must have been just an incredible loss for Lorenzo, because they were so close.
ODONE: Yes, but also for me.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Sure. Sure.
ODONE: I was also very close to Michaela. And it was the love story of the century, really. We just loved each other very, very much.
CHUNG: So, Susan, you are still involved in this crusade and passion. I know you're a political activist, but why this project for you?
SARANDON: Initially, I was just so taken by the idea that they, in their naivete or their brilliance, finally got scientists in a place where they could collaborate with research.
The scientific community -- and one of the reasons I was interested in "Lorenzo's Oil" was because of AIDS -- the scientific community is set up, in terms of a research, in a way that really discourages the sharing of information, for a number of reasons: because of money, grants and patents and everything else. They got all these people to get together and to actually communicate with each other.
CHUNG: So that, Augusto, is the beauty of the Myelin Project, isn't it?
ODONE: Yes.
When I set up the Myelin Project, I told the researchers that they should stop competing with each other and they should cooperate. And, indeed, over several years, now there is a certain cohesion among the work group of the Myelin Project, which include the top scientists in remyelination. And after so many meetings, giving them nice wine, nice food, a certain friendship has developed. The researcher in Paris is collaborating with Yale, researchers at Yale and Cambridge.
CHUNG: The information that you will develop will be helpful in what?
ODONE: My idea is to -- well, people with multiple sclerosis walk up from their wheelchairs. And children with leukodystrophy, like Lorenzo, rise from their bed, from their beds.
So that's my objective. And I'm working very hard. And I'm pushing medical research very hard. I'm financing it. To belong to this group, which is a club of scientists, and to get my money, they have to give me their home telephone number, so that I can bug them.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: That's brilliant. I'll have to remember that.
Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. And we wish you luck in being able to help so many more people.
SARANDON: Thank you.
CHUNG: Susan Sarandon and Augusto Odone, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: You can learn more about their efforts online at Myelin.org. That's www.Myelin.org.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: On Monday: actor Kevin Spacey; and some mind-bending looks at justice, what DNA reveals about America's justice system and how one judge had a convict run for his freedom.
"LARRY KING LIVE" is up next.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and have a good weekend.
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