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CNN Live At Daybreak
U.N. Inspectors Turning More Now to Scientists
Aired December 27, 2002 - 05:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: To Baghdad now with the search for weapons of mass destruction. U.N. inspectors are turning more and more now to the scientists in Iraq who have worked on such weapons.
Our Rym Brahimi has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest point of focus for U.N. weapons inspectors, Baghdad's University of Technology, the second time in three days that inspectors have shown up there. Hardly a surprise for the university's president.
MAZEN MOHAMED ALI, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY: The University is specialized in the science of technology. It's one of the achievements of the 17th of July Revolution. It was established in 1975 so it's certain to be the focus of their attention.
BRAHIMI: That attention caused some excitement among students. The inspectors' visit followed shortly after by the international media and its cameras.
(on camera): There are about 15,000 students at this University of Technology. Many of them surprised to see the inspectors show up, others wondering why they would have come here.
(voice-over): One offered an answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students here could maybe in the future threaten the Zionist entity. They are probably afraid of that. That's why they came here for inspections.
BRAHIMI: But the inspectors didn't question any students. They were more interested in talking to their profits and research directors instead. It was here that on Tuesday the inspectors conducted their first formal interview with an Iraqi scientist. Nuclear researcher Dr. Sabah Abdel Noor said he insisted on talking in the presence of a witness from the Iraqi National Monitoring Directorate.
SABAH ABDEL NOOR, NUCLEAR RESEARCHER: I consider this as a much better situation for all of us.
BRAHIMI: And the head of Iraq's monitoring directorate says that the presence of an official is preferable to a tape recording of the interview. GEN. HOSSAM MOHAMMED AMIN, IRAQI MONITORING DIRECTORATE: If there is a human being who is a witness, he will be a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) witness, this will keep the right of the interview, the person who was participating in the interview.
BRAHIMI: In a further visit at the University of Technology, the inspectors have questioned more scientists and asked for a list of the university's top researchers, a process the University's president says went smoothly.
ALI: I must adamant they were a highly professional, highly skilled team. They were, they exactly know what they want. They were looking into details regarding this matter. They were asking about the line of research, the end result of the research, where to go and so forth.
BRAHIMI: Since this round of inspections began, U.N. biological, chemical and nuclear experts have visited a whole series of universities and engineering colleges, ranging from the Biotechnology Institute to the College of Veterinary Medicine, expanding their search for potential weapons from equipment to people who might be capable of making them.
Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Now, the issue of interviewing Iraqi scientists is a difficult one. Some experts say who U.N. inspectors talk to won't matter much, unless they can also have their choice of where those interviews take place.
CNN national security correspondent David Ensor explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi nuclear scientist Khidir Hamza brought secrets about Saddam Hussein's weapons with him when he defected to the West in the '90s. And he says only by interviewing Iraqi scientists outside Iraq will the United Nations inspectors find out what weapons still exist.
KHIDIR HAMZA, FORMER SENIOR IRAQI SCIENTIST: This could be the Achille's heel of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction programs.
ENSOR: An Iraqi scientist's entire extended family, one former inspector says, might need to be brought out of Iraq before he or she could talk freely.
RAY ZILINKSKAS, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I would certainly say grandmothers, grandfathers, well, even maybe first cousins. It's hard to tell how brutal they would be because after all they're trying to make a lesson.
ENSOR: The U.N. has already started conducting some interviews inside Iraq and says it will ask scientists if they want to be moved out of the country. But General Amin, the Iraqi scientist and spokesman, predicted that many will refuse, including him.
AMIN: Because I don't like to leave my country and be interviewed there, abroad. If there is any question in particular that could be addressed to me, let them address it to me here in Iraq.
ENSOR: U.N. officials like chief inspector Hans Blix also say taking scientists secretly out of the country to talk would be extremely difficult.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: And I don't think that's what the inspectors are for. Nor do I think that we are an abduction agency.
HAMZA: Even before I helped Western government, once they found I was out, three attempts were made on my son's life.
ENSOR: Eventually, Hamza's immediate family did get out of Iraq and warnings were given to Baghdad not to touch his other relatives. He argues the interviews that have already started inside Iraq are a big mistake.
HAMZA: Nobody is, will show readiness inside Iraq to talk because this could alert the Iraqi government and end up in his death and his family member's death also.
ENSOR (on camera): U.N. officials say they are currently negotiating with the U.S. and other governments on this tricky question, what if an Iraqi scientist and his family are brought out and then refuse to speak? Should they still be offered visas and resettlement to the United States? It is, as one unofficial put it, not an easy question.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 27, 2002 - 05:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: To Baghdad now with the search for weapons of mass destruction. U.N. inspectors are turning more and more now to the scientists in Iraq who have worked on such weapons.
Our Rym Brahimi has that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest point of focus for U.N. weapons inspectors, Baghdad's University of Technology, the second time in three days that inspectors have shown up there. Hardly a surprise for the university's president.
MAZEN MOHAMED ALI, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY: The University is specialized in the science of technology. It's one of the achievements of the 17th of July Revolution. It was established in 1975 so it's certain to be the focus of their attention.
BRAHIMI: That attention caused some excitement among students. The inspectors' visit followed shortly after by the international media and its cameras.
(on camera): There are about 15,000 students at this University of Technology. Many of them surprised to see the inspectors show up, others wondering why they would have come here.
(voice-over): One offered an answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students here could maybe in the future threaten the Zionist entity. They are probably afraid of that. That's why they came here for inspections.
BRAHIMI: But the inspectors didn't question any students. They were more interested in talking to their profits and research directors instead. It was here that on Tuesday the inspectors conducted their first formal interview with an Iraqi scientist. Nuclear researcher Dr. Sabah Abdel Noor said he insisted on talking in the presence of a witness from the Iraqi National Monitoring Directorate.
SABAH ABDEL NOOR, NUCLEAR RESEARCHER: I consider this as a much better situation for all of us.
BRAHIMI: And the head of Iraq's monitoring directorate says that the presence of an official is preferable to a tape recording of the interview. GEN. HOSSAM MOHAMMED AMIN, IRAQI MONITORING DIRECTORATE: If there is a human being who is a witness, he will be a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) witness, this will keep the right of the interview, the person who was participating in the interview.
BRAHIMI: In a further visit at the University of Technology, the inspectors have questioned more scientists and asked for a list of the university's top researchers, a process the University's president says went smoothly.
ALI: I must adamant they were a highly professional, highly skilled team. They were, they exactly know what they want. They were looking into details regarding this matter. They were asking about the line of research, the end result of the research, where to go and so forth.
BRAHIMI: Since this round of inspections began, U.N. biological, chemical and nuclear experts have visited a whole series of universities and engineering colleges, ranging from the Biotechnology Institute to the College of Veterinary Medicine, expanding their search for potential weapons from equipment to people who might be capable of making them.
Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Now, the issue of interviewing Iraqi scientists is a difficult one. Some experts say who U.N. inspectors talk to won't matter much, unless they can also have their choice of where those interviews take place.
CNN national security correspondent David Ensor explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi nuclear scientist Khidir Hamza brought secrets about Saddam Hussein's weapons with him when he defected to the West in the '90s. And he says only by interviewing Iraqi scientists outside Iraq will the United Nations inspectors find out what weapons still exist.
KHIDIR HAMZA, FORMER SENIOR IRAQI SCIENTIST: This could be the Achille's heel of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction programs.
ENSOR: An Iraqi scientist's entire extended family, one former inspector says, might need to be brought out of Iraq before he or she could talk freely.
RAY ZILINKSKAS, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I would certainly say grandmothers, grandfathers, well, even maybe first cousins. It's hard to tell how brutal they would be because after all they're trying to make a lesson.
ENSOR: The U.N. has already started conducting some interviews inside Iraq and says it will ask scientists if they want to be moved out of the country. But General Amin, the Iraqi scientist and spokesman, predicted that many will refuse, including him.
AMIN: Because I don't like to leave my country and be interviewed there, abroad. If there is any question in particular that could be addressed to me, let them address it to me here in Iraq.
ENSOR: U.N. officials like chief inspector Hans Blix also say taking scientists secretly out of the country to talk would be extremely difficult.
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: And I don't think that's what the inspectors are for. Nor do I think that we are an abduction agency.
HAMZA: Even before I helped Western government, once they found I was out, three attempts were made on my son's life.
ENSOR: Eventually, Hamza's immediate family did get out of Iraq and warnings were given to Baghdad not to touch his other relatives. He argues the interviews that have already started inside Iraq are a big mistake.
HAMZA: Nobody is, will show readiness inside Iraq to talk because this could alert the Iraqi government and end up in his death and his family member's death also.
ENSOR (on camera): U.N. officials say they are currently negotiating with the U.S. and other governments on this tricky question, what if an Iraqi scientist and his family are brought out and then refuse to speak? Should they still be offered visas and resettlement to the United States? It is, as one unofficial put it, not an easy question.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
