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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Human Cloning Scientific Hoax or Science Fiction; Defiant north Korea, Nuclear Brinksmanship

Aired December 27, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up, human cloning scientific hoax or science fiction; a closer look at some of the claims out there.
Plus, a defiant North Korea, defiant nuclear brinksmanship and the next move in a very dangerous game. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A controversial group claims to have created the first human clone.

DR. BRIGITTE BOISSELIER, CLONAID CEO: She's fine. She's doing real fine and her parents are happy.

BLITZER: Is it real? Is it right? North Korea decides to give U.N. inspectors the boot and reboot a nuclear plant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That this is a concern, we don't see a legitimate reason for operating that reprocessing facility.

BLITZER: A possible illegitimate reason, making weapons grade plutonium. Fill 'er up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I signal him forward and forward and forward and all of a sudden I can make contact.

BLITZER: An exclusive look at the aerial tankers that keep U.S. warplanes flying over Iraq.

There may or may not be a tax cut for the year ahead but we'll tell you how to ease your tax burden before this year ends.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's Friday, December 27, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. A controversial claim has the medical world on edge today. A company founded by an unconventional religious sect says it's created the world's first human clone, a seven pound baby girl.

CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is standing by. He's been following the story all day. Sanjay, tell our viewers who may just be tuning in what exactly is going on. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been hearing a lot about the possibility that a clone has been born, a human clone born 11:55 in the morning yesterday at an undisclosed location. An organization known as Clonaid, which is an offshoot of an organization known as the Raelians, had a press announcement this morning about nine o'clock where they announced this. This is a little bit about what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOISSELIER: I started to have requests from parents who would like to have a child, infertile couple, homosexual couples, single individuals or people with AIDS or all kind of people who would like to benefit from this service and after a few years talking to them, actually I did that for them because I think they deserve it. It's not fair to tell them that they shouldn't do it for what, for human dignity?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: And she came armed with a lot of reasons. That was Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, who is actually the CEO of Clonaid. She came armed with a lot of reasons as to why they should clone but, Wolf, she came with absolutely no proof, no baby, no pictures, no genetic evidence that a clone has actually be born. So, Wolf, all we really have at this point is an announcement by the CEO of this organization saying that a clone was born but no proof as of yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So, why are we even taking this claim all that seriously given the nature of this organization and given the fact that it is, I assume it's rather difficult to clone a human being?

GUPTA: That's right. Well, we may be eating crow next week. She said that within the next eight to nine days she would have some proof that, in fact, a human clone has been born.

Wolf, we've been following this organization along for quite some time. They have set up laboratories at various places around the world with the intent of cloning and while they haven't actually done any cloning before, they had enough support where we thought it was actually worthwhile to actually see what they were doing.

We're not sure that this has been done. People are very skeptical. She's not the only scientist incidentally who claims to be in the process of actually trying to clone a human being. There are two other scientists, one of which says that a clone from his laboratory will be born in the month of January.

So, we're getting a lot of news about cloning, a lot of different scientists talking about it but, Wolf, I think you're asking absolutely the right question. I don't know for sure that she has actually cloned a human being and we'll have to sort of follow this along. Hopefully by next week we'll know for sure.

BLITZER: Because she makes the point herself that they didn't come forward with any hard evidence to back up this incredibly important scientific claim. In the nature of human cloning, though, how difficult would it be to actually clone a person?

GUPTA: You know it's interesting, when Dolly, the sheep, perhaps the most famous clone was cloned it took 276 attempts before they got it right, before they actually had a viable sheep that was born. Admittedly, science has come a long way over the last five years in terms of human cloning. No one really knows for sure how long, how difficult it might be to actually clone a human being because presumably it hasn't been done yet.

But let me share with you some of the numbers that she said. She said they actually did ten implantations, and what that means, Wolf, is they had ten eggs that had genetic material in them and were implanted into a uterus. Of those ten, five went on to have viable pregnancies of which one was born yesterday.

Wolf, that's 50 percent, 50 percent of the implanted embryos in the uterus actually went on to a completed sort of viable pregnancy. One has actually completed the pregnancy already. That makes it sound pretty easy but it also has a lot of the scientists pretty skeptical about those numbers. Fifty percent is better than just about any fertility technique that we know of today.

BLITZER: Now let's say they come forward next week or two weeks from now and they prove, they show that there's a mother and there's a baby that's just been born. How could they actually prove that this baby was cloned?

GUPTA: You know the actual testing, the actual proving, is actually not that difficult. All they would have to do is really take some blood from the baby, take some blood from the mom and do a genetic analysis. If there is a genetic match then there's a 99.9 percent chance that this is a clone, pretty good odds that, in fact, it's a clone.

Of course the strange part about all that, Wolf, is that that baby that would be born or that was born would not only be the daughter of the mother but also the twin sister from a genetic standpoint -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It all boggles the mind, I must say, but I remain skeptical until we see the hard, hard evidence. Dr. Sanjay Gupta thanks very much for that explanation.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BLITZER: And in just a few minutes, we'll discuss the ethical question surrounding this whole issue of cloning, but first let's look at how we got to this point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): In 1997, when Dolly was introduced to the world, cloning became a household word. Within a month, President Clinton bans the use of federal funds for human cloning. That same year, Richard Seed (ph) announced his plans to clone a human and passions began to rise about this brave new world. Cows and monkeys were cloned and the cloning of pigs brought hopes of growing organs for humans.

DR. ANTHONY PERRY, ROCKEFELLER UNIVERSITY: The goal here is, as I said, to reduce the shortage of organs for transplantation and prevent any more needless deaths that arise because people simply don't receive the organ that they need.

BLITZER: Then in July, 2001, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to ban all types of cloning. The Senate never followed. Although Richard Seed hasn't produced a human clone, the race was on between several groups including Clonaid to clone a human for reproduction.

By this time, the cloning field was splitting between those who wanted to clone for reproduction and those who wanted to clone for medical reasons, not allowing the embryo to develop, simply using the stem cells it created to make better medicine.

In 2001, a Massachusetts company called Advanced Cell Technologies, a company specializing in stem cell research, did just that promising they would never use their science to create a baby. Not everyone followed suit.

BOISSELIER: I am very, very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born. She was born yesterday at 11:55 a.m.

BLITZER: Now, Advanced Cell Technologies is criticizing Clonaid for announcing they had done what most of the scientific community sees as appalling.

DR. ROBERT LANZA, ADVANCED CELL TECHNOLOGIES: Without any scientific data, one has to be very, very skeptical. This is a group again that has no scientific track record. They've never published a single scientific paper in this area. They have no research experience in this area. In fact, they've never even cloned a mouse or a rabbit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Experts, of course, are demanding independent proof that the baby is indeed a clone and Clonaid says that that will be coming as we reported in eight or nine days. We shall see. Many observers, of course, are skeptical about today's human cloning claims. The include Dr. Panos Zavos who's been doing his own research into human cloning. He's joining us now live from Lexington, Kentucky. You support human cloning, Dr. Zavos, but you don't believe this claim today. Why?

DR. PANOS ZAVOS, ANDROLOGY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA: Well, you know, no events, no evidence, no signs of anything of that sort as far as delivery of a baby that, you know, it's nothing but words. This has happened too many times with Boisselier and others similar to Boisselier and obviously they need to understand that this world is not willing to accept their stories and they're looking for facts.

BLITZER: Well, what would be their incentive to come forward with this outrageous claim and not deliver the proof in eight or nine days because their credibility at that point would be totally, totally shot?

ZAVOS: Well, and obviously that's a very good question, significant question. This is something that we are considering ourselves, you know, of announcing nothing without the proof and that, therefore, I think that you know what their plans are we have no clear view of that and time is going to tell but today's events really don't turn us on as far as believing anything because they haven't shown us anything.

BLITZER: As far as you know, Dr. Zavos, have they ever done anything like this before, come out with an outrageous statement and say just take it for what it's worth and we in effect are being suckered into their claims?

ZAVOS: Well, ironically enough this happened about a year ago when ACT announced the production of the first three cloned embryos, human embryos that is, for stem cell research and Boisselier followed up a few weeks after that, a few weeks maybe a few days after that. That was before Christmas again, and said that if they have a six to eight cell stage embryos, I have blastocyst that I can announce.

And, therefore, and they put pictures of those blastocysts, that's mature eggs, embryos rather, on their Web site which goes to show that they're trying to compete with something here that I don't know exactly what it is.

But they do like the publicity and I can see that they're getting a great deal of publicity and they're getting a great deal of benefit because looking at their membership of the Raelians since they began to get into the cloning business, they doubled their membership from 25,000 to 60,000. So, I don't know exactly what their agenda is but I'm a little bit suspicious.

BLITZER: But what you're suggesting though is this is one big, huge publicity stunt?

ZAVOS: Well, I'm hoping that that's not the case but that's what it shows at the moment. Now, bear in mind that this pregnancy has taken nine months to get here and be delivered. They had nine months to prepare for this.

They could confirm the presence of the evidence at the time when they cloned the human embryos by doing pre-implantation genetic diagnosis taking the DNA out of one cell of that embryo and confirming the PGD, the matching and the fingerprinting of the DNA of the donor versus an embryo or the embryos.

I'm sure that they've done a series of diagnostic events during this pregnancy in the form of amniocentesis and amniocentesis allows you to get fluid from the amnion and also get cells from that and do genetic screening and find out any genetic deficiencies, and also you could at the time confirm that the donor and the baby that is in utero is matching perfectly.

And then of course, you know, during this birth yesterday or the day before, they could get blood sample from the donor and the baby and send it to an independent laboratory for confirmation. They've done none of those things other than just speeches on television.

BLITZER: All right, we'll be watching to see if they come up with any, any evidence in the next few days. Dr. Panos Zavos thanks very much for joining us.

ZAVOS: Thank you. Thank you very much.

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this story. "Our Web Question of the Day" is this: do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

A defiant North Korea pulls the plug on U.N. inspectors, how close is it to actually building a bomb, a closer look when we return. Plus daredevils in the sky; meet those who risk their lives high above the desert. We'll have an exclusive report. And aliens, mediation, and human cloning, we'll have more on this out of the world group called the Raelians, but first a look at news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Australian warning, you're looking at part of a new Australian advertising campaign designed to increase public awareness of possible terrorist activity. The commercial urge Australians to be vigilant. The government is downplaying concerns the ads may stir up hatred against Muslims.

Kenya votes, Kenyans are choosing a successor to President Daniel arap Moi who's stepping down after 24 years. No results are expected until tomorrow at the earliest.

Peaceful surrender, a gunman who had taken four bank workers hostage in Kyoto, Japan, surrendered after 16 hours. No one was hurt. The man apparently was unhappy about his bank loans.

How dry they are, the general strike in Venezuela hasn't just stopped oil exports. It's also dried up the beer supply. With breweries closed, some thirsty Venezuelans are making do with whiskey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: North Korea today fanned the flames of what's becoming a nuclear crisis. Pyongyang announced it will expel U.N. monitors who've been keeping tabs on its nuclear facilities. It also announced another step in bringing those facilities back to life saying it will reprocess fuel rods at a plant which can make weapons grade plutonium. All of this led to a high level huddle here in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): The president's national security team left the White House after the meeting on North Korea with a Bush administration spokesman saying, "We will not negotiate in response to threats or broken commitments. We call on the regime in North Korea to reverse its course" Scott McClellan told reporters "to take all steps necessary to come into compliance with its IAEA safeguards agreement and to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in a verifiable manner."

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FMR. NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: This is the ineptness of the North Koreans who have never understood how to have a dialog. They believe they've got to try to intimidate the rest of the world and push us into this dialog and, of course, it's not going to work.

BLITZER: Washington plans to send an envoy likely to be Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly, to South Korea as early as next week for urgent consultations with the present leadership and the new president-elect. The moves by North Korea's Kim Jung-il are described at the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency as nuclear brinkmanship.

MUHAMMED EL BARADEI, INTL. ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY (via telephone): I hope you will understand that countries are not ready to negotiate under threat or under blackmail and they should first take the first step to come into compliance with their nonproliferation obligation.

BLITZER: The IAEA board will meet in just over a week. U.S. officials believe that agency may ask the U.N. Security Council to impose stiff sanctions against North Korea. Letting the U.N. take the lead on North Korea, analysts note, could leave the U.S. free to deal with Iraq.

PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There's a lot of things going on. We shouldn't get too caught up in the public rhetoric. There's a lot of things going on behind the scenes diplomatically and quietly that could be very productive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senior administration officials tell CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor the United States will make no dramatic moves or statements in the near future and it appears there is time yet for diplomatic pressure to work. Contrary to some reports, U.S. intelligence officials tell David Ensor North Korea could not produce a new nuclear weapon in less than a year.

All this nuclear showdown heads as it does head toward some sort of critical mass the north has flashed some decidedly conventional weapons as well. For that let's go live to our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, indeed there is another spot of trouble on the scene between North and South Korea and the United States. In Seoul today, the United Nations command announced that North Korea is in violation of the 1953 armistice agreement because apparently for the last several days, the North Koreans have been moving machineguns into the demilitarized zone, an area where there are supposed to be no weapons. The North Koreans so far will not even acknowledge the matter, we are told now.

Here's a picture that the U.N. command made available. You can see that tripod in the middle. You can see a machinegun on top and North Korean soldiers there with those machineguns in the DMZ. According to the U.N., the North Koreans began moving these guns into the DMZ back on December 13. They were observed by South Korean military units in the area of the DMZ.

Apparently, the North Koreans were moving them in and out each day but now the U.N. is making all of this very public, another effort to try and get the North Koreans apparently to respond and take those machineguns out of the DMZ. Now, to put it all in context, it is not terribly militarily significant. These are light machineguns, 7.62 mm. They can not cause an awful lot of trouble but it is destabilizing the DMZ, as always a hair trigger situation.

Many people may remember back in 1976, a U.N. and South Korean military team had entered the DMZ to try and trim a tree. Violence broke out. When it was all over, two U.S. military officials were dead, beaten to death by North Koreans with the blunt end of an axe, so it's always a hair trigger in the DMZ. The U.S. would like to see this resolved -- Wolf.

BLITZER: But, Barbara, since 1953, how often have the North Koreans done such a thing, move a machinegun for example into the DMZ?

STARR: We are told that there have been some instances. This is something that they have seen off and on in the past but right now with the situation so sensitive, they would like the North Koreans not to do this. They do not want what they call crew served weapons, weapons with troops in the DMZ because, of course, there's no warning when trouble might break out. Those weapons are there. The troops are there. They just don't want trouble unexpectedly breaking out.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, we don't want that trouble breaking out either. We'll be watching that North Korea story as well. Thanks very much, Barbara, for that report. Dozens are killed in the latest terror attack in Chechnya. How terrorists managed to get a one ton bomb in to the heart of the capital.

Also, in depth on the ethics of human cloning, and the bizarre history of the Raelians, the group behind today's cloning announcement, but first today's news quiz. What was the first animal successfully cloned, sheep, cow, frog, human, the answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Islamic Jihad is claiming responsibility for an attack on a dining hall at a Jewish settlement in the West Bank. Four people were killed and at least ten were injured when a Palestinian man opened fire. Israeli soldiers shot and killed the gunman.

Meanwhile, funerals were held today for some of the eight Palestinians killed yesterday by Israeli forces in the West Bank and Gaza. Two of them were unarmed bystanders.

Bloodshed and horror today in Russia's breakaway republic of Chechnya, at least 46 people were killed and dozens more wounded when suicide bombers set off massive blasts at a government headquarters building in Grozny. We get the story now from our Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Grozny's government building was one of the most tightly guarded structures in the Chechan capital but somehow, some way, what Russian officials are calling suicide bombers in a truck and a car were able to drive past as many as three military checkpoints with an estimated one ton of explosives.

It was just after lunchtime. Approximately 200 people were at work. Others were on the street. Two bombs went off within seconds of each other blasting a giant crater in the ground leaving the building a burned out shell. Rescue crews working in freezing temperatures pulled survivors from the rubble taking them to Grozny's ill-equipped hospitals. Moscow was sending in a military field hospital to help.

Russian officials are blaming the attack on Chechan terrorists who, they say, were planning more attacks specifically on the Chechan capital. The bombing comes just two weeks after the Russian government took journalists to Chechnya in an attempt to prove the war ravaged republic was slowly returning to normal. Jill Dougherty CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The ethical dilemma involving human cloning, we'll talk to both sides of the debate. Also, high in the sky with a military refueling team, an exclusive look at a very dangerous job. And tax tips to shelter money for college costs, we'll tell you all about that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The group claiming to have created the first human clone has an unusual religious background with a history of more questionable claims. Just hours ago, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta spoke with the founder of this religious sect and this is what he had to say about this controversial claim of cloning a baby girl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAEL, RAELIAN MOVEMENT LEADER: I am very happy that she realized this dream, which is just the first step because we have more steps in the future, which are very important for humanity.

As you know, our organization is -- we believe that life was created on Earth by the advanced civilization from space using DNA and genetic engineering. So creating cloning in laboratories very important, but it's just the first step indeed.

The next step will be to discover what we call accelerated growth process, because right now, if we one cell from your body, as you know, I am sure to make a clone you need nine months in the womb of the mother. Then you need 18 years to have an adult copy of yourself.

But with accelerated growth process, AGP, you can have an adult copy of yourself in a few hours. And that's the next step.

And then there's a third step, which is the ultimate goal, which is to be able to read, to decipher all the datas in your brain which make you who you are. Your memory, your personality. And to put download it in a clone of yourself. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) So that's the secret, the key toward eternal life. When you die, you wake up in a young body.

This concern is the same -- it was the same 20 years ago. If you remember the first test tube baby, Lewis Brown, was born 20 years ago. And if you read the newspapers, the front page of 20 years ago, 22 years ago, in fact, is the same concern. The same things.

We will create a monster. We are playing Frankenstein. We are playing God. This poor baby will be disformed. Mentally handicapped. What is the result 20 years later? You are -- as you know, I am sure, there are 200,000 children born through IVF. Two hundred thousand test tube babies. And they are perfectly healthy.

I support every aspect of science. And I think the most dangerous thing for humanity is to slow down science, like George Bush do, actually by slowing down research of stem cell or other things.

The worst enemy of the progress of humanity is everything which limits science and the ethics. The very word of ethic or ethical is a very primitive concept. There should be absolutely no ethic in science. Ethic is good for religion. If you are Christian, it's ethical to have one wife. If you are Muslim, you can have four. And it's ethical in one way and not in the other one.

It's ethical for you maybe to eat pork and if you are Jew, you cannot eat pork. It's unethical.

Ethic is good in religion. There is absolutely no place for ethic in science. Science should be absolutely free.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Those may be fighting words for our next guests.

Joining me to discuss the ethics of human cloning are Glenn McGee of the University of Pennsylvania Center for Bioethics. He's in Philadelphia.

And Dr. Greg Stock of the UCLA Medical School. He's in Minneapolis. Thank you very much for joining us.

I guess I'll begin with you, Greg. Talk to me about this claim today that this group has actually managed to clone a baby girl. Do you believe them?

GREG STOCK, UCLA MEDICAL SCHOOL: I think it's extremely unlikely. It's not an easy thing to do. I think it will happen within five or 10 years, but there have been attempts to clone primates, Reeses (ph) monkeys, in which there have been literally thousands of embryos of attempts at making a nuclear transfer for an embryo.

And now we get this announcement and then the announcement by the Antanori (ph), the Italian who claims he's going to have a clone as though this is just an effortless thing. It seems more to me -- to me it seems like it's a race to get the publicity that is being showered on the Raelians at this point.

BLITZER: Dr. McGee, if, in fact, it's going to happen in the next 10 or 15 years by legitimate scientists, there has to be some ethical considerations.

I know that we just heard from the leader of the group saying there's no ethics in science, but you obviously disagree.

GLENN MCGEE, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA CENTER FOR BIOETHICS: Well, of course, and very responsible scientist disagrees. I mean, there's no question that the way we do peer reviewed science of the kind that's involved in making a new sort of human being is not to hold a press conference at the Holiday Inn in Hollywood, Florida with no scientists, no doctor, no patients, no baby, no peer reviewed article and no evidence that what's been proposed could actually happen.

Dr. Stock's exactly right. Trying -- the attempts to do this in primates have faced really fundamental barriers. And the idea that a team would even attempt to make a human clone infant at this point, with the risk that that would entail for the baby, are shocking. And I'm stunned to hear the leader, even of a cult, say something like, Well, they know the risks that they're taking. Everything will be OK. Ethics is nothing. It's primitive and we all want to eventually make clones that will instantly grow up to be our own age. I mean, these guys literally have screws loose.

BLITZER: Greg -- Greg, I want you to respond to that but I also want you to get in to this whole notion of how we should deal with this whole issue of human cloning, assuming that the claim today is not going to be proven.

STOCK: Well, I think that , first of all, that is idea this isn't safe enough to do now is certainly true. It is not something that even can -- where safety can be measured because it's not an existing technology.

But it will, when it's done, it's going to be done by some crazy group. And it's going to be done before it is recognized as being safe by any responsible physicians. Now, the real difficulty, though, is that when you look at this, which has become such a symbol of all of the possibilities that are emerging. The fear of the birth of a clone, which is a delayed identical twin. I mean, this is a little strange, a little odd, but it's not something that's going to bring down Western civilization at all.

This is being used in order to try to criminalize lot of basic biomedical research that is directed at real people with real diseases and real suffering and real families; Alzheimer;s, spinal chord injuries, to try and stop embryonic stem cell work, which, to me, is would be such a sad thing if that happened.

BLITZER: All right. That's a fair point. What about that, Glenn?

MCGEE: Well, I completely agree with Greg, and Greg and I have been talking about this for years. It would be a tragedy if stem cell research were slowed down by this kind of irresponsible attempt to do human cloning this early and in this way.

But let's be fair. The stem cell biology research companies have brought much of the bad publicity that they have on themselves. It wasn't a year ago that Advanced Cell Technologies surprised us all Thanksgiving weekend with the announcement that they had created -- and this is on cover of "U.S. News," "Scientific American" and "Online Journal": "The Very First Cloned Human Embryo." And not three or four days later, they're admitting that, in fact, perhaps it only grew to three cells. Half the editorial board of the "Science Journal" has resigned.

The search for publicity is not limited to the Raelians and the crop circle people. It's all around us. It's about there not being enough money to do this science responsibly. We have to get control of that, I think, first.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Greg.

STOCK: I think it's just such an opportunity to play in to the media frenzy that occurs for these sorts of things. And there are going to be numerous announcements of this sort. And it's going to happen time and again. And I think that as people that are trying to reflect on what's occurring -- that we need to just step back and have a sense of sort of balance about what's occurring.

Even if this were true what they were saying. You know, it's not going to have a huge impact. There are going to be a small number of people who are going to do this sort of a thing. And there are many other things that are going on that are much more important as far as...

BLITZER: Glenn, go ahead. Glenn, you got the last word. Go ahead.

MCGEE: If I may, with all due respect. And again, Greg and I have talked about this for a long time. I want to be clear. I think it is a world changing event to make a new kind of person through human nuclear transfer.

And I think it's very, very clear that, I mean, beginning with the fact that this child wouldn't be able to come into the United States under existing law because it wouldn't be anyone's child. As Greg points out, it would be a delayed identical twin, and would thus be ineligible for a passport.

And if I were in the Bush administration right now, I would be making sure that the FDA is enforcing those mandates so that we do not have courts, family courts or immigration courts that are allowing people that, as it were, go off shore to cloning cruises or cloning islands or, for that matter, cloning parks to do this sort of thing.

STOCK: But you're not going to really be able to stop these sorts of things. When the technologies become feasible, they're going to be used and they're going to not be used by mainstream scientists. They're going to be used by various groups of this sort.

BLITZER: Greg Stock and Glenn McGee, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. An important, important bioethical discussion that we're having. I have a sense we're going to have a lot more of these talks in the weeks, months and years to come. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

STOCK: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

MCGEE: Thank you.

BLITZER: And who are these people who have sponsored this so- called cloning experiment? Our Marty Savidge has been looking into their background.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOISSELIER: We call her Eve.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the claim of the world's first human clone caught you a bit off guard, I hope you're sitting down. It is just the tip of a very weird iceberg.

Clonaid was founded by the leader of a religious sect or cult, depending on your point of view, that believes in cloning, flying saucers and free love.

Followers call themselves Raelians. This is how they meditate.

Their leader, Claude Vorilhon, is a former French journalist who says he was visited by aliens at a volcano in the 1970s. Rael, as he now calls himself, claims the aliens revealed to him that life on Earth was created by extraterrestrial scientists through cloning.

The theme of human duplication is prevalent throughout the group's faith. They see it as the key to immortality. Believers hope to one day transfer their minds into a new, identical body.

RAEL, RAELIAN MOVEMENT LEADER: Your memory, your personality and to download in a clone of yourself. An adult clone of yourself. So that's the secret, the key, toward eternal life.

SAVIDGE: Rael claims to have 55,000 followers the world over, who occasionally gather at their own theme park in Canada, called UFO Land.

Occasionally they also protest against more accepted forms of religion, such as the Catholic church.

The demonstrations, like the believers themselves, are unique.

Unique also describes the head of Clonaid, Brigitte Boisselier, a former chemistry teacher and current Raelian bishop. She referred to the cloned child as Eve.

BOISSELIER: And today is my day. I am very, very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born.

SAVIDGE: Eve, as the name implies, may be just the beginning. Clonaid claims four more cloned babies will be born in the coming weeks.

Martin Savidge, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Marty. And, of course, you can weigh in on this story. Remember our web question of the day is this: "Do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax?" Vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results at the end of this program.

The word audit can send shivers down the spine of any taxpayer. Why the IRS is ramping up the random audits next year. And tax tips about how to avoid the problem.

Also, a rare look inside one of the most dangerous jobs in the U.S. military. Come aboard air refueling tankers, where one tiny mistake can spell a huge disaster.

But first, the answer to today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): Earlier we asked: "What was the first animal ever successfully cloned?" The answer: a frog, more than three decades ago. Dr. John Girden of Britain transplanted the intestinal cell of a tadpole into an eneucleated frog egg. The first cloned sheep didn't come into being until 1995.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The U.S. Navy has been told to get two more aircraft carriers and their battle groups ready to move to the Persian Gulf. There's no yet word on whether ships must be prepared to sail, although it's unlikely to be before the first of the year.

The USS "George Washington," just back from the Gulf, may have to turn around for a fresh deployment. Several Marine Corp amphibious ships have received similar orders. And a Navy hospital ship could leave for the Persian Gulf within a few days.

In their hunt for Iraqi weapons, U.N. inspectors today checked three more sites, including a brewery. They also interviewed an Iraqi scientist about activities which may be linked to a nuclear program.

Meantime, U.S. warplanes, which patrol the no-fly zones over Iraq, are getting critical help from refueling tankers based in Saudi Arabia. During my recent visit, I had some exclusive access to the Prince Sultan Air Base and the U.S. military personnel who keep them flying.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): They make it look so easy. Way up in the sky, the U.S. warplanes and their crews on missions over Iraq take a break to get some fuel.

RONALD MARASCO, MASTER SGT., U.S. AIR FORCE: Basically we lower this boom. We call this a pope boom. It's got some rudder vators (ph). Basically it's like a wing. And we lower this, lower it to approximately, we'll say 30 degrees.

BLITZER: His job is to fill her up. U.S. Air Force Master Sergeant Ronald Marasco one of those booms on a KC-135 tanker. He's on assignment at the Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia, where the U.S. Air Force maintains many of those tankers.

MARASCO: We extend that boom. As you can see, part of it comes out at this time. We lower it. We extend it. And as the receiver comes in, comes in about 50 feet. Then I bring him in. And I signal him forward and forward and forward. All of a sudden, I make contact in his boom receptacle (ph) and we off load fuel to him.

BLITZER: Sounds easy, but it requires coordination and precision.

The two planes are flying at high altitudes and they're flying fast. One slipup could lead to disaster.

It's a dangerous mission. Do you realize, it looks relatively simple but it's pretty hard, isn't it?

CAPT. LAURA LENDERMAN, U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, we've trained hard. I've doing this for nine years. So every mission has provided its unique challenges. But here we're ready. We're ready to do the mission.

BLITZER: Captain Laura Lenderman is a KC-135 tanker pilot.

What kind of planes are you filling their tank?

LENDERMAN: We're refueling every coalition aircraft here on base. And that's at 15, the 16s, AWACs, RC 135s.

BLITZER: All the stealth stuff, too? They're not based here, but... LENDERMAN: We're capable of refueling stealth aircraft but we haven't at this time.

BLITZER: Until recently, the most advanced U.S. warplane, the B2 Stealth bomber, had to refuel several times as it flew from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri to its targets in Afghanistan.

Recently, however, the U.S. gas built up special facilities at an air base on the British island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to accommodate the unique needs of the B2.

That means the stealth bomber will require fewer midair refueling missions if ordered to drop bombs against Iraqi targets.

U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Fritz Koennecke has been flying tankers for 10 years.

If it comes down to a war, do you think the troops here are ready for that?

LT. COL. FRITZ KOENNECKE, U.S. AIR FORCE: The troops here are very well prepared. We've been here for about 10 years so everyone's familiar with the environment and the theater. So whatever the president tells us to do, I think we'll be ready to go.

BLITZER: During our stay at the Prince Sultan Air Base, we kept hearing that refrain over and over again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: They're do a pretty strong job over there at the Prince Sultan Air Base. We had a good time. Very interesting covering that story.

And if you're thinking about cheating on your taxes, you may want to reconsider. The IRS is on the audit hunt once again. Find out how to save some tax dough the honest way, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: With the new year just around the corner, lots of people are talking taxes. CNN's Sean Callebs has tips for those saving for a college education and those tempted to cheat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the high cost of higher education has you concerned, accountants say check into a 529 Plan.

STAN BERGER, TAX ACCOUNTANT: They are excellent vehicles for college education.

CALLEBS: Here's how it works. You put money into a state-run college fund and any gains you get are exempt from state and federal taxes. And year after year after year the tax savings could really add up.

BERGER: So when people go to college and as long as you pay college tuition with that, and there are other things you can pay, but let's stick with college tuition, then you never pay tax on the gain within the plan.

CALLEBS: Most states have 529 Plans, but each is basically a little different.

This could also be the year of the red flag for tax cheats. The IRS is taking a closer look at who's eligible to take a deduction for their kids and who's actually taking it.

BERGER: They're looking for double deductions on dependents. They're looking for people who take the dependent -- especially divorced people, where they each take the dependent and only one is entitled to it.

CALLEBS: After paring back the number of random adults, the Internal Revenue Service is ramping up again planning some 50,000 random audits this tax season.

Sean Callebs, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax. Log on to cnn.com/wolf to vote. We'll have the rules immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Extremely windy weather is "Our Picture of the Day." Gusts up to 45 miles an hour are buffeting the Seattle this afternoon. Look at these pictures. And they're topping 100 miles an hour in nearby mountains' passes. The winds caused a barge to break free in Elliott Bay and it's knocked out power to at least 30,000 customers. That's windy.

Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember we've been asking you this: do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax? Look at this. Thirty-eight percent f you think it's real, 62 percent of you say it's a hoax. You can find the exact vote tally, continue to vote, by the way, on our Web site cnn.com/wolf. This of course is not a scientific poll.

Here's your e-mails for today. Jason writes this: "Now that cloning has be done," maybe, "and opened a so-called Pandora's box, I believe that we should embrace this technology with international government monitoring. The cloning is going to continue anyway, so may as well deal with it and use the technology for good use.

On the ethics of the question, David asks this: "If cloning is morally reprehensible, what about an infertile couple who decided to create an egg with DNA from two chosen donors?" Rob writes this: "As I listen to their story, the word "whacko" pooped into my mind. There must be another comet passing."

Rob, you have to tell us how you really feel.

That's all the time we have today. Please join me again Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talks. Among my guests the former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He'll look back on the year and look ahead to see what's coming up. That's Sunday at noon Eastern.

Until then thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE is up next. Jan Hopkins filling in for Lou once again.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





north Korea, Nuclear Brinksmanship>


Aired December 27, 2002 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up, human cloning scientific hoax or science fiction; a closer look at some of the claims out there.
Plus, a defiant North Korea, defiant nuclear brinksmanship and the next move in a very dangerous game. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A controversial group claims to have created the first human clone.

DR. BRIGITTE BOISSELIER, CLONAID CEO: She's fine. She's doing real fine and her parents are happy.

BLITZER: Is it real? Is it right? North Korea decides to give U.N. inspectors the boot and reboot a nuclear plant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That this is a concern, we don't see a legitimate reason for operating that reprocessing facility.

BLITZER: A possible illegitimate reason, making weapons grade plutonium. Fill 'er up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I signal him forward and forward and forward and all of a sudden I can make contact.

BLITZER: An exclusive look at the aerial tankers that keep U.S. warplanes flying over Iraq.

There may or may not be a tax cut for the year ahead but we'll tell you how to ease your tax burden before this year ends.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's Friday, December 27, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. A controversial claim has the medical world on edge today. A company founded by an unconventional religious sect says it's created the world's first human clone, a seven pound baby girl.

CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is standing by. He's been following the story all day. Sanjay, tell our viewers who may just be tuning in what exactly is going on. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been hearing a lot about the possibility that a clone has been born, a human clone born 11:55 in the morning yesterday at an undisclosed location. An organization known as Clonaid, which is an offshoot of an organization known as the Raelians, had a press announcement this morning about nine o'clock where they announced this. This is a little bit about what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOISSELIER: I started to have requests from parents who would like to have a child, infertile couple, homosexual couples, single individuals or people with AIDS or all kind of people who would like to benefit from this service and after a few years talking to them, actually I did that for them because I think they deserve it. It's not fair to tell them that they shouldn't do it for what, for human dignity?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: And she came armed with a lot of reasons. That was Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, who is actually the CEO of Clonaid. She came armed with a lot of reasons as to why they should clone but, Wolf, she came with absolutely no proof, no baby, no pictures, no genetic evidence that a clone has actually be born. So, Wolf, all we really have at this point is an announcement by the CEO of this organization saying that a clone was born but no proof as of yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So, why are we even taking this claim all that seriously given the nature of this organization and given the fact that it is, I assume it's rather difficult to clone a human being?

GUPTA: That's right. Well, we may be eating crow next week. She said that within the next eight to nine days she would have some proof that, in fact, a human clone has been born.

Wolf, we've been following this organization along for quite some time. They have set up laboratories at various places around the world with the intent of cloning and while they haven't actually done any cloning before, they had enough support where we thought it was actually worthwhile to actually see what they were doing.

We're not sure that this has been done. People are very skeptical. She's not the only scientist incidentally who claims to be in the process of actually trying to clone a human being. There are two other scientists, one of which says that a clone from his laboratory will be born in the month of January.

So, we're getting a lot of news about cloning, a lot of different scientists talking about it but, Wolf, I think you're asking absolutely the right question. I don't know for sure that she has actually cloned a human being and we'll have to sort of follow this along. Hopefully by next week we'll know for sure.

BLITZER: Because she makes the point herself that they didn't come forward with any hard evidence to back up this incredibly important scientific claim. In the nature of human cloning, though, how difficult would it be to actually clone a person?

GUPTA: You know it's interesting, when Dolly, the sheep, perhaps the most famous clone was cloned it took 276 attempts before they got it right, before they actually had a viable sheep that was born. Admittedly, science has come a long way over the last five years in terms of human cloning. No one really knows for sure how long, how difficult it might be to actually clone a human being because presumably it hasn't been done yet.

But let me share with you some of the numbers that she said. She said they actually did ten implantations, and what that means, Wolf, is they had ten eggs that had genetic material in them and were implanted into a uterus. Of those ten, five went on to have viable pregnancies of which one was born yesterday.

Wolf, that's 50 percent, 50 percent of the implanted embryos in the uterus actually went on to a completed sort of viable pregnancy. One has actually completed the pregnancy already. That makes it sound pretty easy but it also has a lot of the scientists pretty skeptical about those numbers. Fifty percent is better than just about any fertility technique that we know of today.

BLITZER: Now let's say they come forward next week or two weeks from now and they prove, they show that there's a mother and there's a baby that's just been born. How could they actually prove that this baby was cloned?

GUPTA: You know the actual testing, the actual proving, is actually not that difficult. All they would have to do is really take some blood from the baby, take some blood from the mom and do a genetic analysis. If there is a genetic match then there's a 99.9 percent chance that this is a clone, pretty good odds that, in fact, it's a clone.

Of course the strange part about all that, Wolf, is that that baby that would be born or that was born would not only be the daughter of the mother but also the twin sister from a genetic standpoint -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It all boggles the mind, I must say, but I remain skeptical until we see the hard, hard evidence. Dr. Sanjay Gupta thanks very much for that explanation.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BLITZER: And in just a few minutes, we'll discuss the ethical question surrounding this whole issue of cloning, but first let's look at how we got to this point.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): In 1997, when Dolly was introduced to the world, cloning became a household word. Within a month, President Clinton bans the use of federal funds for human cloning. That same year, Richard Seed (ph) announced his plans to clone a human and passions began to rise about this brave new world. Cows and monkeys were cloned and the cloning of pigs brought hopes of growing organs for humans.

DR. ANTHONY PERRY, ROCKEFELLER UNIVERSITY: The goal here is, as I said, to reduce the shortage of organs for transplantation and prevent any more needless deaths that arise because people simply don't receive the organ that they need.

BLITZER: Then in July, 2001, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to ban all types of cloning. The Senate never followed. Although Richard Seed hasn't produced a human clone, the race was on between several groups including Clonaid to clone a human for reproduction.

By this time, the cloning field was splitting between those who wanted to clone for reproduction and those who wanted to clone for medical reasons, not allowing the embryo to develop, simply using the stem cells it created to make better medicine.

In 2001, a Massachusetts company called Advanced Cell Technologies, a company specializing in stem cell research, did just that promising they would never use their science to create a baby. Not everyone followed suit.

BOISSELIER: I am very, very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born. She was born yesterday at 11:55 a.m.

BLITZER: Now, Advanced Cell Technologies is criticizing Clonaid for announcing they had done what most of the scientific community sees as appalling.

DR. ROBERT LANZA, ADVANCED CELL TECHNOLOGIES: Without any scientific data, one has to be very, very skeptical. This is a group again that has no scientific track record. They've never published a single scientific paper in this area. They have no research experience in this area. In fact, they've never even cloned a mouse or a rabbit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Experts, of course, are demanding independent proof that the baby is indeed a clone and Clonaid says that that will be coming as we reported in eight or nine days. We shall see. Many observers, of course, are skeptical about today's human cloning claims. The include Dr. Panos Zavos who's been doing his own research into human cloning. He's joining us now live from Lexington, Kentucky. You support human cloning, Dr. Zavos, but you don't believe this claim today. Why?

DR. PANOS ZAVOS, ANDROLOGY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA: Well, you know, no events, no evidence, no signs of anything of that sort as far as delivery of a baby that, you know, it's nothing but words. This has happened too many times with Boisselier and others similar to Boisselier and obviously they need to understand that this world is not willing to accept their stories and they're looking for facts.

BLITZER: Well, what would be their incentive to come forward with this outrageous claim and not deliver the proof in eight or nine days because their credibility at that point would be totally, totally shot?

ZAVOS: Well, and obviously that's a very good question, significant question. This is something that we are considering ourselves, you know, of announcing nothing without the proof and that, therefore, I think that you know what their plans are we have no clear view of that and time is going to tell but today's events really don't turn us on as far as believing anything because they haven't shown us anything.

BLITZER: As far as you know, Dr. Zavos, have they ever done anything like this before, come out with an outrageous statement and say just take it for what it's worth and we in effect are being suckered into their claims?

ZAVOS: Well, ironically enough this happened about a year ago when ACT announced the production of the first three cloned embryos, human embryos that is, for stem cell research and Boisselier followed up a few weeks after that, a few weeks maybe a few days after that. That was before Christmas again, and said that if they have a six to eight cell stage embryos, I have blastocyst that I can announce.

And, therefore, and they put pictures of those blastocysts, that's mature eggs, embryos rather, on their Web site which goes to show that they're trying to compete with something here that I don't know exactly what it is.

But they do like the publicity and I can see that they're getting a great deal of publicity and they're getting a great deal of benefit because looking at their membership of the Raelians since they began to get into the cloning business, they doubled their membership from 25,000 to 60,000. So, I don't know exactly what their agenda is but I'm a little bit suspicious.

BLITZER: But what you're suggesting though is this is one big, huge publicity stunt?

ZAVOS: Well, I'm hoping that that's not the case but that's what it shows at the moment. Now, bear in mind that this pregnancy has taken nine months to get here and be delivered. They had nine months to prepare for this.

They could confirm the presence of the evidence at the time when they cloned the human embryos by doing pre-implantation genetic diagnosis taking the DNA out of one cell of that embryo and confirming the PGD, the matching and the fingerprinting of the DNA of the donor versus an embryo or the embryos.

I'm sure that they've done a series of diagnostic events during this pregnancy in the form of amniocentesis and amniocentesis allows you to get fluid from the amnion and also get cells from that and do genetic screening and find out any genetic deficiencies, and also you could at the time confirm that the donor and the baby that is in utero is matching perfectly.

And then of course, you know, during this birth yesterday or the day before, they could get blood sample from the donor and the baby and send it to an independent laboratory for confirmation. They've done none of those things other than just speeches on television.

BLITZER: All right, we'll be watching to see if they come up with any, any evidence in the next few days. Dr. Panos Zavos thanks very much for joining us.

ZAVOS: Thank you. Thank you very much.

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this story. "Our Web Question of the Day" is this: do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

A defiant North Korea pulls the plug on U.N. inspectors, how close is it to actually building a bomb, a closer look when we return. Plus daredevils in the sky; meet those who risk their lives high above the desert. We'll have an exclusive report. And aliens, mediation, and human cloning, we'll have more on this out of the world group called the Raelians, but first a look at news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Australian warning, you're looking at part of a new Australian advertising campaign designed to increase public awareness of possible terrorist activity. The commercial urge Australians to be vigilant. The government is downplaying concerns the ads may stir up hatred against Muslims.

Kenya votes, Kenyans are choosing a successor to President Daniel arap Moi who's stepping down after 24 years. No results are expected until tomorrow at the earliest.

Peaceful surrender, a gunman who had taken four bank workers hostage in Kyoto, Japan, surrendered after 16 hours. No one was hurt. The man apparently was unhappy about his bank loans.

How dry they are, the general strike in Venezuela hasn't just stopped oil exports. It's also dried up the beer supply. With breweries closed, some thirsty Venezuelans are making do with whiskey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: North Korea today fanned the flames of what's becoming a nuclear crisis. Pyongyang announced it will expel U.N. monitors who've been keeping tabs on its nuclear facilities. It also announced another step in bringing those facilities back to life saying it will reprocess fuel rods at a plant which can make weapons grade plutonium. All of this led to a high level huddle here in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): The president's national security team left the White House after the meeting on North Korea with a Bush administration spokesman saying, "We will not negotiate in response to threats or broken commitments. We call on the regime in North Korea to reverse its course" Scott McClellan told reporters "to take all steps necessary to come into compliance with its IAEA safeguards agreement and to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in a verifiable manner."

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FMR. NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: This is the ineptness of the North Koreans who have never understood how to have a dialog. They believe they've got to try to intimidate the rest of the world and push us into this dialog and, of course, it's not going to work.

BLITZER: Washington plans to send an envoy likely to be Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly, to South Korea as early as next week for urgent consultations with the present leadership and the new president-elect. The moves by North Korea's Kim Jung-il are described at the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency as nuclear brinkmanship.

MUHAMMED EL BARADEI, INTL. ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY (via telephone): I hope you will understand that countries are not ready to negotiate under threat or under blackmail and they should first take the first step to come into compliance with their nonproliferation obligation.

BLITZER: The IAEA board will meet in just over a week. U.S. officials believe that agency may ask the U.N. Security Council to impose stiff sanctions against North Korea. Letting the U.N. take the lead on North Korea, analysts note, could leave the U.S. free to deal with Iraq.

PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There's a lot of things going on. We shouldn't get too caught up in the public rhetoric. There's a lot of things going on behind the scenes diplomatically and quietly that could be very productive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senior administration officials tell CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor the United States will make no dramatic moves or statements in the near future and it appears there is time yet for diplomatic pressure to work. Contrary to some reports, U.S. intelligence officials tell David Ensor North Korea could not produce a new nuclear weapon in less than a year.

All this nuclear showdown heads as it does head toward some sort of critical mass the north has flashed some decidedly conventional weapons as well. For that let's go live to our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, indeed there is another spot of trouble on the scene between North and South Korea and the United States. In Seoul today, the United Nations command announced that North Korea is in violation of the 1953 armistice agreement because apparently for the last several days, the North Koreans have been moving machineguns into the demilitarized zone, an area where there are supposed to be no weapons. The North Koreans so far will not even acknowledge the matter, we are told now.

Here's a picture that the U.N. command made available. You can see that tripod in the middle. You can see a machinegun on top and North Korean soldiers there with those machineguns in the DMZ. According to the U.N., the North Koreans began moving these guns into the DMZ back on December 13. They were observed by South Korean military units in the area of the DMZ.

Apparently, the North Koreans were moving them in and out each day but now the U.N. is making all of this very public, another effort to try and get the North Koreans apparently to respond and take those machineguns out of the DMZ. Now, to put it all in context, it is not terribly militarily significant. These are light machineguns, 7.62 mm. They can not cause an awful lot of trouble but it is destabilizing the DMZ, as always a hair trigger situation.

Many people may remember back in 1976, a U.N. and South Korean military team had entered the DMZ to try and trim a tree. Violence broke out. When it was all over, two U.S. military officials were dead, beaten to death by North Koreans with the blunt end of an axe, so it's always a hair trigger in the DMZ. The U.S. would like to see this resolved -- Wolf.

BLITZER: But, Barbara, since 1953, how often have the North Koreans done such a thing, move a machinegun for example into the DMZ?

STARR: We are told that there have been some instances. This is something that they have seen off and on in the past but right now with the situation so sensitive, they would like the North Koreans not to do this. They do not want what they call crew served weapons, weapons with troops in the DMZ because, of course, there's no warning when trouble might break out. Those weapons are there. The troops are there. They just don't want trouble unexpectedly breaking out.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, we don't want that trouble breaking out either. We'll be watching that North Korea story as well. Thanks very much, Barbara, for that report. Dozens are killed in the latest terror attack in Chechnya. How terrorists managed to get a one ton bomb in to the heart of the capital.

Also, in depth on the ethics of human cloning, and the bizarre history of the Raelians, the group behind today's cloning announcement, but first today's news quiz. What was the first animal successfully cloned, sheep, cow, frog, human, the answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The Islamic Jihad is claiming responsibility for an attack on a dining hall at a Jewish settlement in the West Bank. Four people were killed and at least ten were injured when a Palestinian man opened fire. Israeli soldiers shot and killed the gunman.

Meanwhile, funerals were held today for some of the eight Palestinians killed yesterday by Israeli forces in the West Bank and Gaza. Two of them were unarmed bystanders.

Bloodshed and horror today in Russia's breakaway republic of Chechnya, at least 46 people were killed and dozens more wounded when suicide bombers set off massive blasts at a government headquarters building in Grozny. We get the story now from our Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Grozny's government building was one of the most tightly guarded structures in the Chechan capital but somehow, some way, what Russian officials are calling suicide bombers in a truck and a car were able to drive past as many as three military checkpoints with an estimated one ton of explosives.

It was just after lunchtime. Approximately 200 people were at work. Others were on the street. Two bombs went off within seconds of each other blasting a giant crater in the ground leaving the building a burned out shell. Rescue crews working in freezing temperatures pulled survivors from the rubble taking them to Grozny's ill-equipped hospitals. Moscow was sending in a military field hospital to help.

Russian officials are blaming the attack on Chechan terrorists who, they say, were planning more attacks specifically on the Chechan capital. The bombing comes just two weeks after the Russian government took journalists to Chechnya in an attempt to prove the war ravaged republic was slowly returning to normal. Jill Dougherty CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The ethical dilemma involving human cloning, we'll talk to both sides of the debate. Also, high in the sky with a military refueling team, an exclusive look at a very dangerous job. And tax tips to shelter money for college costs, we'll tell you all about that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The group claiming to have created the first human clone has an unusual religious background with a history of more questionable claims. Just hours ago, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta spoke with the founder of this religious sect and this is what he had to say about this controversial claim of cloning a baby girl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAEL, RAELIAN MOVEMENT LEADER: I am very happy that she realized this dream, which is just the first step because we have more steps in the future, which are very important for humanity.

As you know, our organization is -- we believe that life was created on Earth by the advanced civilization from space using DNA and genetic engineering. So creating cloning in laboratories very important, but it's just the first step indeed.

The next step will be to discover what we call accelerated growth process, because right now, if we one cell from your body, as you know, I am sure to make a clone you need nine months in the womb of the mother. Then you need 18 years to have an adult copy of yourself.

But with accelerated growth process, AGP, you can have an adult copy of yourself in a few hours. And that's the next step.

And then there's a third step, which is the ultimate goal, which is to be able to read, to decipher all the datas in your brain which make you who you are. Your memory, your personality. And to put download it in a clone of yourself. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) So that's the secret, the key toward eternal life. When you die, you wake up in a young body.

This concern is the same -- it was the same 20 years ago. If you remember the first test tube baby, Lewis Brown, was born 20 years ago. And if you read the newspapers, the front page of 20 years ago, 22 years ago, in fact, is the same concern. The same things.

We will create a monster. We are playing Frankenstein. We are playing God. This poor baby will be disformed. Mentally handicapped. What is the result 20 years later? You are -- as you know, I am sure, there are 200,000 children born through IVF. Two hundred thousand test tube babies. And they are perfectly healthy.

I support every aspect of science. And I think the most dangerous thing for humanity is to slow down science, like George Bush do, actually by slowing down research of stem cell or other things.

The worst enemy of the progress of humanity is everything which limits science and the ethics. The very word of ethic or ethical is a very primitive concept. There should be absolutely no ethic in science. Ethic is good for religion. If you are Christian, it's ethical to have one wife. If you are Muslim, you can have four. And it's ethical in one way and not in the other one.

It's ethical for you maybe to eat pork and if you are Jew, you cannot eat pork. It's unethical.

Ethic is good in religion. There is absolutely no place for ethic in science. Science should be absolutely free.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Those may be fighting words for our next guests.

Joining me to discuss the ethics of human cloning are Glenn McGee of the University of Pennsylvania Center for Bioethics. He's in Philadelphia.

And Dr. Greg Stock of the UCLA Medical School. He's in Minneapolis. Thank you very much for joining us.

I guess I'll begin with you, Greg. Talk to me about this claim today that this group has actually managed to clone a baby girl. Do you believe them?

GREG STOCK, UCLA MEDICAL SCHOOL: I think it's extremely unlikely. It's not an easy thing to do. I think it will happen within five or 10 years, but there have been attempts to clone primates, Reeses (ph) monkeys, in which there have been literally thousands of embryos of attempts at making a nuclear transfer for an embryo.

And now we get this announcement and then the announcement by the Antanori (ph), the Italian who claims he's going to have a clone as though this is just an effortless thing. It seems more to me -- to me it seems like it's a race to get the publicity that is being showered on the Raelians at this point.

BLITZER: Dr. McGee, if, in fact, it's going to happen in the next 10 or 15 years by legitimate scientists, there has to be some ethical considerations.

I know that we just heard from the leader of the group saying there's no ethics in science, but you obviously disagree.

GLENN MCGEE, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA CENTER FOR BIOETHICS: Well, of course, and very responsible scientist disagrees. I mean, there's no question that the way we do peer reviewed science of the kind that's involved in making a new sort of human being is not to hold a press conference at the Holiday Inn in Hollywood, Florida with no scientists, no doctor, no patients, no baby, no peer reviewed article and no evidence that what's been proposed could actually happen.

Dr. Stock's exactly right. Trying -- the attempts to do this in primates have faced really fundamental barriers. And the idea that a team would even attempt to make a human clone infant at this point, with the risk that that would entail for the baby, are shocking. And I'm stunned to hear the leader, even of a cult, say something like, Well, they know the risks that they're taking. Everything will be OK. Ethics is nothing. It's primitive and we all want to eventually make clones that will instantly grow up to be our own age. I mean, these guys literally have screws loose.

BLITZER: Greg -- Greg, I want you to respond to that but I also want you to get in to this whole notion of how we should deal with this whole issue of human cloning, assuming that the claim today is not going to be proven.

STOCK: Well, I think that , first of all, that is idea this isn't safe enough to do now is certainly true. It is not something that even can -- where safety can be measured because it's not an existing technology.

But it will, when it's done, it's going to be done by some crazy group. And it's going to be done before it is recognized as being safe by any responsible physicians. Now, the real difficulty, though, is that when you look at this, which has become such a symbol of all of the possibilities that are emerging. The fear of the birth of a clone, which is a delayed identical twin. I mean, this is a little strange, a little odd, but it's not something that's going to bring down Western civilization at all.

This is being used in order to try to criminalize lot of basic biomedical research that is directed at real people with real diseases and real suffering and real families; Alzheimer;s, spinal chord injuries, to try and stop embryonic stem cell work, which, to me, is would be such a sad thing if that happened.

BLITZER: All right. That's a fair point. What about that, Glenn?

MCGEE: Well, I completely agree with Greg, and Greg and I have been talking about this for years. It would be a tragedy if stem cell research were slowed down by this kind of irresponsible attempt to do human cloning this early and in this way.

But let's be fair. The stem cell biology research companies have brought much of the bad publicity that they have on themselves. It wasn't a year ago that Advanced Cell Technologies surprised us all Thanksgiving weekend with the announcement that they had created -- and this is on cover of "U.S. News," "Scientific American" and "Online Journal": "The Very First Cloned Human Embryo." And not three or four days later, they're admitting that, in fact, perhaps it only grew to three cells. Half the editorial board of the "Science Journal" has resigned.

The search for publicity is not limited to the Raelians and the crop circle people. It's all around us. It's about there not being enough money to do this science responsibly. We have to get control of that, I think, first.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Greg.

STOCK: I think it's just such an opportunity to play in to the media frenzy that occurs for these sorts of things. And there are going to be numerous announcements of this sort. And it's going to happen time and again. And I think that as people that are trying to reflect on what's occurring -- that we need to just step back and have a sense of sort of balance about what's occurring.

Even if this were true what they were saying. You know, it's not going to have a huge impact. There are going to be a small number of people who are going to do this sort of a thing. And there are many other things that are going on that are much more important as far as...

BLITZER: Glenn, go ahead. Glenn, you got the last word. Go ahead.

MCGEE: If I may, with all due respect. And again, Greg and I have talked about this for a long time. I want to be clear. I think it is a world changing event to make a new kind of person through human nuclear transfer.

And I think it's very, very clear that, I mean, beginning with the fact that this child wouldn't be able to come into the United States under existing law because it wouldn't be anyone's child. As Greg points out, it would be a delayed identical twin, and would thus be ineligible for a passport.

And if I were in the Bush administration right now, I would be making sure that the FDA is enforcing those mandates so that we do not have courts, family courts or immigration courts that are allowing people that, as it were, go off shore to cloning cruises or cloning islands or, for that matter, cloning parks to do this sort of thing.

STOCK: But you're not going to really be able to stop these sorts of things. When the technologies become feasible, they're going to be used and they're going to not be used by mainstream scientists. They're going to be used by various groups of this sort.

BLITZER: Greg Stock and Glenn McGee, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. An important, important bioethical discussion that we're having. I have a sense we're going to have a lot more of these talks in the weeks, months and years to come. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

STOCK: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

MCGEE: Thank you.

BLITZER: And who are these people who have sponsored this so- called cloning experiment? Our Marty Savidge has been looking into their background.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOISSELIER: We call her Eve.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the claim of the world's first human clone caught you a bit off guard, I hope you're sitting down. It is just the tip of a very weird iceberg.

Clonaid was founded by the leader of a religious sect or cult, depending on your point of view, that believes in cloning, flying saucers and free love.

Followers call themselves Raelians. This is how they meditate.

Their leader, Claude Vorilhon, is a former French journalist who says he was visited by aliens at a volcano in the 1970s. Rael, as he now calls himself, claims the aliens revealed to him that life on Earth was created by extraterrestrial scientists through cloning.

The theme of human duplication is prevalent throughout the group's faith. They see it as the key to immortality. Believers hope to one day transfer their minds into a new, identical body.

RAEL, RAELIAN MOVEMENT LEADER: Your memory, your personality and to download in a clone of yourself. An adult clone of yourself. So that's the secret, the key, toward eternal life.

SAVIDGE: Rael claims to have 55,000 followers the world over, who occasionally gather at their own theme park in Canada, called UFO Land.

Occasionally they also protest against more accepted forms of religion, such as the Catholic church.

The demonstrations, like the believers themselves, are unique.

Unique also describes the head of Clonaid, Brigitte Boisselier, a former chemistry teacher and current Raelian bishop. She referred to the cloned child as Eve.

BOISSELIER: And today is my day. I am very, very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born.

SAVIDGE: Eve, as the name implies, may be just the beginning. Clonaid claims four more cloned babies will be born in the coming weeks.

Martin Savidge, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Marty. And, of course, you can weigh in on this story. Remember our web question of the day is this: "Do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax?" Vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results at the end of this program.

The word audit can send shivers down the spine of any taxpayer. Why the IRS is ramping up the random audits next year. And tax tips about how to avoid the problem.

Also, a rare look inside one of the most dangerous jobs in the U.S. military. Come aboard air refueling tankers, where one tiny mistake can spell a huge disaster.

But first, the answer to today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): Earlier we asked: "What was the first animal ever successfully cloned?" The answer: a frog, more than three decades ago. Dr. John Girden of Britain transplanted the intestinal cell of a tadpole into an eneucleated frog egg. The first cloned sheep didn't come into being until 1995.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The U.S. Navy has been told to get two more aircraft carriers and their battle groups ready to move to the Persian Gulf. There's no yet word on whether ships must be prepared to sail, although it's unlikely to be before the first of the year.

The USS "George Washington," just back from the Gulf, may have to turn around for a fresh deployment. Several Marine Corp amphibious ships have received similar orders. And a Navy hospital ship could leave for the Persian Gulf within a few days.

In their hunt for Iraqi weapons, U.N. inspectors today checked three more sites, including a brewery. They also interviewed an Iraqi scientist about activities which may be linked to a nuclear program.

Meantime, U.S. warplanes, which patrol the no-fly zones over Iraq, are getting critical help from refueling tankers based in Saudi Arabia. During my recent visit, I had some exclusive access to the Prince Sultan Air Base and the U.S. military personnel who keep them flying.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): They make it look so easy. Way up in the sky, the U.S. warplanes and their crews on missions over Iraq take a break to get some fuel.

RONALD MARASCO, MASTER SGT., U.S. AIR FORCE: Basically we lower this boom. We call this a pope boom. It's got some rudder vators (ph). Basically it's like a wing. And we lower this, lower it to approximately, we'll say 30 degrees.

BLITZER: His job is to fill her up. U.S. Air Force Master Sergeant Ronald Marasco one of those booms on a KC-135 tanker. He's on assignment at the Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia, where the U.S. Air Force maintains many of those tankers.

MARASCO: We extend that boom. As you can see, part of it comes out at this time. We lower it. We extend it. And as the receiver comes in, comes in about 50 feet. Then I bring him in. And I signal him forward and forward and forward. All of a sudden, I make contact in his boom receptacle (ph) and we off load fuel to him.

BLITZER: Sounds easy, but it requires coordination and precision.

The two planes are flying at high altitudes and they're flying fast. One slipup could lead to disaster.

It's a dangerous mission. Do you realize, it looks relatively simple but it's pretty hard, isn't it?

CAPT. LAURA LENDERMAN, U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, we've trained hard. I've doing this for nine years. So every mission has provided its unique challenges. But here we're ready. We're ready to do the mission.

BLITZER: Captain Laura Lenderman is a KC-135 tanker pilot.

What kind of planes are you filling their tank?

LENDERMAN: We're refueling every coalition aircraft here on base. And that's at 15, the 16s, AWACs, RC 135s.

BLITZER: All the stealth stuff, too? They're not based here, but... LENDERMAN: We're capable of refueling stealth aircraft but we haven't at this time.

BLITZER: Until recently, the most advanced U.S. warplane, the B2 Stealth bomber, had to refuel several times as it flew from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri to its targets in Afghanistan.

Recently, however, the U.S. gas built up special facilities at an air base on the British island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to accommodate the unique needs of the B2.

That means the stealth bomber will require fewer midair refueling missions if ordered to drop bombs against Iraqi targets.

U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Fritz Koennecke has been flying tankers for 10 years.

If it comes down to a war, do you think the troops here are ready for that?

LT. COL. FRITZ KOENNECKE, U.S. AIR FORCE: The troops here are very well prepared. We've been here for about 10 years so everyone's familiar with the environment and the theater. So whatever the president tells us to do, I think we'll be ready to go.

BLITZER: During our stay at the Prince Sultan Air Base, we kept hearing that refrain over and over again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: They're do a pretty strong job over there at the Prince Sultan Air Base. We had a good time. Very interesting covering that story.

And if you're thinking about cheating on your taxes, you may want to reconsider. The IRS is on the audit hunt once again. Find out how to save some tax dough the honest way, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: With the new year just around the corner, lots of people are talking taxes. CNN's Sean Callebs has tips for those saving for a college education and those tempted to cheat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the high cost of higher education has you concerned, accountants say check into a 529 Plan.

STAN BERGER, TAX ACCOUNTANT: They are excellent vehicles for college education.

CALLEBS: Here's how it works. You put money into a state-run college fund and any gains you get are exempt from state and federal taxes. And year after year after year the tax savings could really add up.

BERGER: So when people go to college and as long as you pay college tuition with that, and there are other things you can pay, but let's stick with college tuition, then you never pay tax on the gain within the plan.

CALLEBS: Most states have 529 Plans, but each is basically a little different.

This could also be the year of the red flag for tax cheats. The IRS is taking a closer look at who's eligible to take a deduction for their kids and who's actually taking it.

BERGER: They're looking for double deductions on dependents. They're looking for people who take the dependent -- especially divorced people, where they each take the dependent and only one is entitled to it.

CALLEBS: After paring back the number of random adults, the Internal Revenue Service is ramping up again planning some 50,000 random audits this tax season.

Sean Callebs, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax. Log on to cnn.com/wolf to vote. We'll have the rules immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Extremely windy weather is "Our Picture of the Day." Gusts up to 45 miles an hour are buffeting the Seattle this afternoon. Look at these pictures. And they're topping 100 miles an hour in nearby mountains' passes. The winds caused a barge to break free in Elliott Bay and it's knocked out power to at least 30,000 customers. That's windy.

Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember we've been asking you this: do you think the claims of a cloned baby are real or a hoax? Look at this. Thirty-eight percent f you think it's real, 62 percent of you say it's a hoax. You can find the exact vote tally, continue to vote, by the way, on our Web site cnn.com/wolf. This of course is not a scientific poll.

Here's your e-mails for today. Jason writes this: "Now that cloning has be done," maybe, "and opened a so-called Pandora's box, I believe that we should embrace this technology with international government monitoring. The cloning is going to continue anyway, so may as well deal with it and use the technology for good use.

On the ethics of the question, David asks this: "If cloning is morally reprehensible, what about an infertile couple who decided to create an egg with DNA from two chosen donors?" Rob writes this: "As I listen to their story, the word "whacko" pooped into my mind. There must be another comet passing."

Rob, you have to tell us how you really feel.

That's all the time we have today. Please join me again Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talks. Among my guests the former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He'll look back on the year and look ahead to see what's coming up. That's Sunday at noon Eastern.

Until then thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE is up next. Jan Hopkins filling in for Lou once again.

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