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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Justice System at Work; Rises and Falls of SUVs; Kevin Spacey Pays it Forward
Aired December 30, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN HOST: Good evening.
Tonight, we look back at how the justice system works or doesn't work, in the case of a rapist who did not commit the crime, and a convict given a chance to literally race for his freedom.
Plus, a former presidential candidate who spoke with us about his daughter's losing battle with alcohol.
We'll also revisit the fierce debate over the rise and sometimes deadly falls of sports utility vehicles and how Kevin Spacey is repaying a debt to people he's never met.
Right now, though, we start with a story we told this summer. The story of Marvin Anderson. He spent 15 years in a Virginia prison for rape. He was out on parole when a DNA test came back, proving his innocence. The governor pardoned him, clearing his name and record.
At a news conference afterwards, Anderson seemed to show no bitterness against the authorities or the woman who mistakenly accused him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And joining us now from Richmond, Virginia is Marvin Anderson. Also with us, one of his attorneys, Peter Neufeld, whose group, the Innocence Project, has cleared 110 people wrongly convicted of crimes.
Mr. Anderson, thank you so much for being with us. We are thrilled and happy for you.
MARVIN ANDERSON, WRONGLY CONVICTED OF RAPE: Thank you.
CHUNG: Mr. Anderson, tell me, you spent 15 years in prison for a crime that you didn't commit. I don't know how you couldn't be bitter or angry.
ANDERSON: It's really easy. When you were brought up in a family that loves you and supports you and doesn't actually teach you hatred, there is no way that a person can grow up hating anyone. Hatred and bitterness is something that's taught to an individual. You are not born with it.
CHUNG: Has the woman who accused you originally apologized or called you or said anything to you?
ANDERSON: No, she hasn't. I haven't been in contact with her. I have no idea where she is located.
CHUNG: That's incredible.
Peter Neufeld, is that what usually happens?
PETER NEUFELD, CO-FOUNDER, THE INNOCENCE PROJECT: What, you mean that...
CHUNG: That you never hear from the person who wrongly accused him, you know, the person who is in prison.
NEUFELD: Unfortunately, yes, because it's very hard for the victim. I mean, obviously, she got closure 20 years ago, or so she thought. Also, now she has to sort of accept the reality that she played a role in sending a completely innocent man to prison. Those are two difficult realities to accept. And so it's very hard for people to cross that line and come forward.
CHUNG: Mr. Anderson, what really astounds me is how you were brought into custody and what caused you to be convicted.
The woman in question apparently told -- actually it's easier for you to say this, Mr. Neufeld, than for me, the local sheriff said what -- the woman said what to the local sheriff?
NEUFELD: Actually, Marvin knows that. What did the victim say to the sheriff?
ANDERSON: Basically, she told the investigators that her attacker told her that he lived with a white female. And at that time, I was dating a white female. Therefore that's what led the investigating officers to me.
CHUNG: They went actually to your office, got a picture of you, through your I.D., because you didn't have a criminal record, prior criminal record, they took it to the woman and added six other photographs, black-and-white photographs of individuals who could be suspects. She picked your face out, correct?
ANDERSON: Yes, ma'am.
CHUNG: And then later in a line-up, you were the only one among those seven photographs -- in the line-up again she picked you?
ANDERSON: Yes, ma'am. If you ask me...
CHUNG: Yes, go ahead.
ANDERSON: By doing that, showing the victim a color I.D. photo of me, and within less than 30 minutes later they had me standing in front of a line-up -- once you stand in front of a line-up and after seeing a picture of someone, that's going to be the first thing that's on your mind.
CHUNG: And the other incredible thing, Mr. Anderson, is that one of those individuals among the six black-and-white photos was in fact the man who committed the crime, and in 1988 he confessed. But no one would pick this case up, is that right, Mr. Neufeld?
NEUFELD: Connie, of the 110 post-conviction DNA exonerations, this is the only case in the country...
CHUNG: Yes.
NEUFELD: ...where the victim had a chance to pick out the real perpetrator, and instead chose a completely innocent man. Then in 1988, six years after he was convicted, the lawyers at the time were able to find this man, sought him out, convinced him to come in and confess. He did come in. He confessed under oath. The judge said, I don't believe it. Said, Marvin Anderson, you are going back to prison, and sent Mr. Anderson back for years.
CHUNG: Mr. Anderson, you were convicted to spend 210 years in prison. How did you remain sane while you were there?
ANDERSON: A lot of prayers. A lot of prayers. Family support. Friends' support. My community. Churches. NAACP from the Hanover branch. A lot of people were supporting me because they knew me. They knew Marvin Lamont Anderson as an individual and knew that I did not commit this crime.
CHUNG: How did you keep the faith, you know, in your heart that -- did you really think you were going to get out some day?
ANDERSON: Oh, yes. I've always felt that I was going to return home to my family where I belonged. I just didn't know exactly when that day would happen.
CHUNG: You know, one of the things that really also is astounding is that when you did get out on parole, you were forced to pay for psychiatric visits to deal with your, quote/unquote, "sexual offender" position in life. And you had no problem. And you had to pay for this. I would love to be a fly on that ceiling, listening to you trying to talk to this psychologist.
ANDERSON: Well, as I stated before, I have been blessed in more ways than most people can imagine. Yes, I did have to pay for my psychiatric visits to the doctor. Over the sessions, the doctor himself actually admitted to me that he know I did not commit the crime. I wasn't -- I don't have the character or the profile of a rapist. And that did help those sessions go along a little smoother.
From day one, I tried to tell the courts, the investigative officers that I did not commit the crime. No one would really listen to me. At the end, I ended up going to prison serving the time.
NEUFELD: You know, one of the big problems we have in Virginia is that the state is No. 2 in the country in executions. It's No. 4 in the country in wrongful convictions cleared by DNA. So you know that there is a big risk they're going to be executing innocent people if they haven't already.
And so what we're trying to do now is convince the governor of Virginia to hold an innocence commission, which will investigate what went wrong in Marvin's case, and then reform it, if necessary, to prevent other innocent people in the future from suffering what Marvin suffered.
CHUNG: You really persevered too, because the evidence was thought to have been lost. And how long did it take you to get the DNA evidence, just give me a short answer on that?
NEUFELD: It took five and a half years. They said the evidence was destroyed. And fortunately, a criminalist violated the rules and pasted it into her notebook, and that's how we found it.
CHUNG: Incredible. Can Mr. Anderson be compensated? Also a quick answer on that.
NEUFELD: There is no compensation statute in Virginia, but don't you think there's a moral responsibility? If you take a man -- this man's freedom for 15 years, you've got to give him something back.
CHUNG: Absolutely. Mr. Anderson, you're 38 years old, you're engaged to be married as well?
ANDERSON: Yes.
CHUNG: Congratulations. And you have a job. And what kind of future do you think you have ahead of you?
ANDERSON: A bright one. I have my rights back, my name back, my family name back. I have the whole world, which is full of opportunities that are open for me to choose whatever one I choose to take.
CHUNG: Well, congratulations to you. I mean, you -- you have finally got what you deserved. And we thank you so much for being with us.
And Peter Neufeld, you must go to sleep and wake up every morning just feeling so good.
NEUFELD: It's pretty good.
CHUNG: Yes.
NEUFELD: But there is still a lot to do.
CHUNG: Sure. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: When we come back, another potentially deadly threat. Are SUVs really as dangerous as the critics say? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Lately the debate over sports utility vehicles has been driven by questions of their morality. Some people have even launched an anti-SUV campaign using the slogan, "What would Jesus drive?" Their claim? That driving SUVs is selifsh and bad for human beings on this planet. Others oppose the gas guzzlers for increasing Americans' dependence on foreign oil and the troublesom foreign policy implications that come with it.
But before all this, there was a more fundamental SUV debate that we explored this fall. A new book claims that SUVs unfairly shift the risk of car accidents to the occupants of the smaller cars. And I spoke with two guests who hit this issue from very different sides of the highway.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Keith Bradsher, is author of the new and controversial book, "High and Mighty." And Sam Kazman in Washington is general counsel for the Competitive Enterprise Institute.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.
Let's start with you.
Give me three good reasons why you believe SUVs are dangerous -- because we own one. I think everyone out there either owns one or knows someone who has one.
KEITH BRADSHER, AUTHOR, "HIGH AND MIGHTY": Well, to start with the point you just mentioned, SUVs are nearly three times as likely as a car to kill the other driver in a crash.
They tend to go over the bumpers and over the doorsills in collisions. Some of the latest SUVs have some features to reduce the likelihood of that, but they still have very tall hoods. And if you hit a car from the side and you have something coming in with a 4- foot-high hood, you're more likely to hit the head of the person in the car.
Just because you have four-wheel drive doesn't mean you have any better ability to brake than the people in the cars. You may not be slipping and sliding as you accelerate on a wet, icy or otherwise slippery day, but you're no more able to stop in a vehicle with four- wheel drive than you are in a car. In fact, often the brakes in SUVs are less effective than the ones in cars.
CHUNG: All right, quickly, three.
BRADSHER: Three, the guardrails often aren't tall enough to keep the SUVs on the road when they hit them.
CHUNG: Mr. Kazman, one of the complaints that people have about SUVs, including this gentleman here, is that they do not come under federal guidelines regarding fuel economy. Why not?
SAM KAZMAN, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, GENERAL COUNSEL: SUVs come into what's called the light truck category. And light trucks, which include pickups, vans and SUVs, are regulated by the federal fuel economy mandates, but not as stringently as passenger cars.
CHUNG: So shouldn't they be?
KAZMAN: Well, some people, like Mr. Bradsher, would probably regard that as a loophole. I regard it as a very justifiable escape hatch.
CHUNG: How could it be justifiable, sir?
KAZMAN: Because, in my view, SUVs offer millions of people characteristics that they are having more and more trouble finding in passenger cars, in large part because passenger cars have been shrunken, have been downsized because of these federal fuel economy mandates.
CHUNG: Mr. Bradsher, your critics say you that make quite valid points; however, you go overboard.
I mean, here's one of the quotes from your book. You say: "People who have SUVs tend to be people who are insecure and vain. They're frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors or community."
Come on. This is ridiculous.
BRADSHER: The next sentence in the book is that: "Some might dismiss that as a cynic's view, but that's what the automakers' own market researchers say."
CHUNG: I know, but...
BRADSHER: That's how they describe SUV owners.
CHUNG: Through their surveys perhaps, right?
BRADSHER: Exactly. They survey huge numbers of people.
CHUNG: But that is so ridiculous, isn't it? Don't you admit that you've put something quite silly in this book? I mean, if you want to have credibility regarding your allegations against SUVs, why put something like that in there?
BRADSHER: Not in the least.
I describe -- I have lots of quotes from different auto executives and market researchers, such as Chrysler's head of market research saying that people who buy SUVs want to be able to put the kids in the back seat, roll up the smoked-glass windows and pretend they're still single and able to get a date again.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: That's ridiculous.
KAZMAN: Come on.
CHUNG: Oh, come on. I can hear Mr. Kazman saying, "Oh, come on."
BRADSHER: But it's what -- and I've got people from Ford, GM, Honda, Chrysler. There's a lot of research into what kind of activities, for example, people who buy SUVs vs. people who buy minivans engage in. People who buy SUVs are less likely to engage in volunteer activities. They put a lower premium on getting together with family.
KAZMAN: Hold on.
BRADSHER: All of these are just the correlations in the activity surveys with the vehicle models that people buy.
CHUNG: Mr. Kazman, I can hear you really grumbling.
KAZMAN: Yes. Yes.
Whenever there is a snow emergency in the city, you do not hear calls going out from hospitals for drivers of subcompacts and minicars to make their vehicles available to ferry nurses and doctors and patients to E.R. rooms. You hear calls going out for SUV owners.
CHUNG: As far as our viewers are concerned, Mr. Kazman, would you say it's OK to buy and drive an SUV?
KAZMAN: Absolutely. Small SUVs are about as crash-worthy as small cars. The largest SUVs have a better track record than any car class on the road.
Mr. Bradsher calls SUVs high and mighty in his book. It's not SUVs that are high and mighty. It's the folks who would take them away from people.
CHUNG: Mr. Bradsher, do you believe that people should buy SUVs and drive them, yes or no?
BRADSHER: Yes. People who need them should.
CHUNG: All right, thank you very much. We appreciate your being with us, Keith Bradsher and Sam Kazman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And despite the debate, SUVs still account for half of all new vehicle sales.
When we come back, George McGovern. Once a presidential candidate, he will tell how his daughter broke his heart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: As we approach the New Year, we begin a new political season, as would-be Democratic candidates begin to put together their presidential campaigns.
Now that Al Gore has taken himself out of the 2004 race, we might be seeing some new faces emerging. More and more these days, the families of political candidates are making headlines. And the public is getting a glimpse of how some children of public figures suffer in the limelight.
One man who knows all of that too well is George McGovern. The former South Dakota senator ran for president in 1972. Years later, George McGovern lose his daughter Terry to alcohol. She died drunk, frozen to death outside a bar. And Senator McGovern spoke with me about her death and life from Mitchell, South Dakota.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Senator McGovern, it's so good to see you again. Thank you for being with us tonight.
GEORGE MCGOVERN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: It's my pleasure.
CHUNG: You must be able to empathize with the Bush family on so many levels as you watch the Noelle Bush story unfold.
MCGOVERN: Well, my heart goes out to Governor Bush and Mrs. Bush and the family.
This is a tough experience to go through. It's an illness. When you have a child or a member of your family suffering from a chemical addiction, they're sick. And that has to be treated. And I'm sure the Bush family is well aware of this. It's not a political crisis. It's a personal family crisis, and a very sad one.
We lost a daughter, as I think you know, to alcoholism, one of the finest young women I've ever known in my life. But she was an addict. She just could not get on top of that problem. And it finally took her life.
CHUNG: How early did you realize that she had an alcohol problem?
MCGOVERN: It began in the college years.
She was at the University of South Dakota. And we saw the grades start to slip. We saw her behavior become more irregular. We saw the beginning of emotional depression. We knew something was wrong.
CHUNG: What is so extraordinary is that she was in and out of detox centers 68 times, which is a staggering number.
MCGOVERN: It is. She was living in Madison, Wisconsin, then. And she fought that illness, I think, every day of her life. She not only went into detox centers -- which is simply a matter of a few days, three or four or five days -- but she was in long-term treatment.
I used to tell Eleanor: "Don't worry about Terry. She's a real battler. She's not going to give up easily. She'll get on top of this thing. She's a tough-minded scrapper. And she's going to lick this thing sooner or later." I really believed that. It wasn't just a pep talk to Eleanor. It was something I fully believed.
So, when I got the news that at Christmastime of '94 about midnight, when a police officer and a clergyman came to our house in Washington and told us that our daughter Teresa Jane had been found dead, frozen to death in a snowbank in Madison, Wisconsin, while deeply intoxicated, I just couldn't believe it. I was too stunned even to react. I just literally went numb.
And it's been a tough time since then dealing with this loss. You keep thinking of things you wish you had done or hours you wish you had spent with the suffering member of your family. But, in the end, I think we did everything almost humanly possible to help her.
And I'm sure the Bush family has done the same thing. This is an enlightened, intelligent, sensitive family, a good family. And I'm sure they've done everything in their power to help their daughter. But these addictions are powerful things. They're nothing to fool around with.
CHUNG: What kind of advice would you have for the Bush family? Because it does seem as if Governor Jeb Bush has been out there, very straightforward, very honest. He's not trying to hide anything.
MCGOVERN: Well, that's the advice I would give, to do just as he has and to be open and honest and direct about it. And what he's going to discover is that people will respond favorably to that.
We found that in our case. I had people in my state of South Dakota walk up to me when Terry was in trouble one time. And it turns out it was a devout Republican. And he said: "Look, George, I don't agree with you on politics, but I certainly agree with you on the way you're handling this problem with your daughter. And you have my full sympathy." I later heard that he even voted for me.
So I'm not saying this is the way to get votes, but I am saying it's not a political crisis, in a damaging sense, for Governor Bush.
CHUNG: Do you think it's hard for the children of public figures, in this respect, because, if you look at it, Noelle Bush has an uncle who's president, has a father who's governor of the state. I mean, that's quite a lot to deal with, and knowing if indeed that you have a problem, that you know it's not going to be a private problem.
MCGOVERN: Yes, it is tough on children.
I became aware of that rather early in my career, that my children were paying a price for my prominence and my national involvement and all of those things that go with public life. I think it is tough on kids. Whether or not that's the kind of a problem that could lead children into drugs, I don't know. I'm not wise enough to know that. But I do know that politics takes a heavy toll on family life.
CHUNG: Thank you so much. It's just terrific to see you.
MCGOVERN: Well, I hope to see you soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Some thoughts about moving on as we approach the New Year.
And, when we come back, looking back and paying back. Kevin Spacey puts his Web site where his mouth is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: If you've seen actor Kevin Spacey's work over the past few years, you'd probably agree that he's one versatile guy. He can do just about anything. If you saw "Se7en," or "The Usual Suspects," "L.A. Confidential," "Glengarry Glen Ross," or "American Beauty," then you know just how wide-ranging his talent is. He can be kindly, he can be funny, he can be scary. So what's the secret to Kevin Spacey? You should know that he has also undertaken one of the movie industry's most high-minded, altruistic projects in years. Is Kevin Spacey's big secret that he's just one heck of a nice guy?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "AMERICAN BEAUTY")
ANNETTE BENING, ACTRESS: Buddy, this is my...
KEVIN SPACEY, ACTOR: Her husband. We've met before, but something tells me you're going to remember me this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG (voice-over): You probably remember Kevin Spacey from his Oscar-winning performance as Lester Burnham, the suburban dad having a midlife crisis in "American Beauty."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE USUAL SUSPECTS")
SPACEY: The only thing that scares me is Kaiser Soze.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Or you might remember him from his first Academy Award: best supporting actor in "The Usual Suspects."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE USUAL SUSPECTS")
SPACEY: People say I talk too much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Spacey also had memorable roles in films such as "L.A. Confidential," "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" and "Pay it Forward."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "PAY IT FORWARD")
SPACEY: This is your assignment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Born in New Jersey in 1959, Kevin Spacey began acting on the stage. He won a Tony Award in 1991 for "Lost in Yonkers." He was mentored by Jack Lemmon and said he feels a responsibility to help other young actors.
SPACEY: It's part of the payback, really. It's an important -- and it actually feels great. It really does, when you do something that you see it affects people.
CHUNG: Spacey has taken most of this year off to focus on creating TriggerStreet.com, a free Web site devoted to finding and helping new talent, screenwriters, and filmmakers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And he's set aside just a couple of minutes from that task to fill us in on exactly what he's doing.
Thank you.
SPACEY: Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: I am loving you. I'm loving your work. I am telling you...
SPACEY: Well, I'm glad to be here so we can talk.
CHUNG: All right, we'll talk.
SPACEY: You and I together.
CHUNG: Yes. This is what we're going to do.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: But you know what? It's that little grin, that "I'm up to no good" that I love about you. And it's the full range from devilish to downright sinister.
Did your mother used to say to you, "Kevin, what are you up to?"
SPACEY: Well, yes, I did get away with a lot as a kid, but my mom raised me right. So I'm making up for it now. CHUNG: You're a good boy?
SPACEY: Yes, I'm making up for it now.
CHUNG: OK, you credit two people in particular for sort of jump- starting your career. Tell me about them.
SPACEY: Well, the first, which we saw just a little clip of, is the great late Jack Lemmon, who I actually met when I was 14 years old.
CHUNG: Really?
SPACEY: Yes. I went to a seminar. I still remember the moment I shakily walked up to him to ask for his autograph and asked if he had any advice. And he gave me advice.
CHUNG: Because, at that time, you already knew you wanted to be an actor?
SPACEY: I already knew. I knew when I was about 8.
CHUNG: You're kidding?
SPACEY: Yes.
CHUNG: How come?
SPACEY: For me, it was an incredible world where you could escape. I grew up sort of watching the late movies and admiring actors enormously. And I think my parents would say I was always the class clown and the one making the silly voices in the back of the room.
So, Lemmon actually gave me some pretty great advice and said that, if I was serious about it, I ought to come to New York. I ought to study. I did. I went to Juilliard here for a number of years. And then, finally, I met him again in an audition for "Long Day's Journey Into Night," which we've been looking at a clip of.
And I ended up playing his son for more than a year.
CHUNG: But then you worked with him several more times.
SPACEY: Yes, we did.
CHUNG: His mentoring didn't stop.
SPACEY: No.
And aside from the joy of being able to work with him and how much I admired him, I think his example, of being able to work with somebody who had reached the pinnacle of success, who never allowed Hollywood glory to go to his head, and who really is the person who kind of gave me the phrase that if you've done well in whatever business you're in, then you ought to spend about half of your time sending the elevator back down.
CHUNG: So good. Such a good thought, but you've moved it into action.
OK, the other person who was key in your life?
SPACEY: The other person I think, really, was the first film director who ever fought for me against the studios, which was Alan Pakula.
And I did a film with him called "Consenting Adults." It was, for me, an extraordinary beginning, because it was really only after that studios began to pay attention to me. And it was because one person stood up and said, "No, I think this actor is the right actor for the role," even though, at that point, I was really kind of a obscure theater actor.
CHUNG: All right, so, let's get to your Web site.
It's payback time. You decide you are really going to do something for -- really put your heart and soul into it for a whole year. So, you take off work, doing any movies or whatever.
SPACEY: That's right.
CHUNG: And now this is your dream.
SPACEY: Well, what's great about talking with you tonight is that this almost gets to be a little bit of an update about how it's doing.
And Dana Brunetti, who is my business partner in this adventure, and, actually, I should credit with this being really his idea, after a series of conversations we had about things that I was frustrated by in the industry, the first being, you can't take unsolicited material, that little manila envelope that arrives at your office that could be a great screenplay.
CHUNG: And why not?
SPACEY: Well, because there's all kinds of legal reasons why you can't open unsolicited material. But the fact of the matter is, is that I wouldn't have a career if it weren't for unsolicited material, because of the first-time directors, second-time screenwriters, first- time playwrights who gave me a chance and I took a chance on.
I felt it was somehow odd that I'm suddenly cut off from that whole pipeline of talent. So, Dana came up with this idea and approached me with it a little more than a year ago. And, essentially, it is -- right now, there's an online short film festival and a screenwriting forum. It doesn't cost anybody any money. All you have to do is go the site, you have to register, go through the process, and then you have to read, rate and review or watch, rate and review two screenplays that exist on a site or two short films.
CHUNG: I, as an ordinary person, in order to submit, have to review two others.
SPACEY: Yes, you must participate, because what we're trying to do is to create a community, where you could be the next great filmmaker, but if the only people you've ever shown your work to is your family, you may not be getting the best criticism. And so far, as of today, I think we are at about 38,000 members.
CHUNG: What?
SPACEY: Registered members.
There's some 20,000 reviews that have been posted; 1,000- something screenplays have been uploaded and over 600 short films. So, clearly, there was an audience out there just that we've managed to come along in the Internet, and we've started this new adventure.
CHUNG: Well, obviously, all these people want the doors to open for them. Is that opportunity going to be there, do you think?
SPACEY: I think that what I'm going to try to do, in addition to paying attention to it for our own company, mostly, we want people to write and to do the things they want to do because they have a passion for it, not because they might win something at the end of the day.
But I hope to get the industry to pay attention to it, that other studio executives, that production companies, that executives and producers will take a look and realize that there's a new place...
CHUNG: A source.
SPACEY: ... to find material. And that's TriggerStreet.com.
CHUNG: That is so great.
If there is one thing that I don't understand is how can you prevent people from stealing thoughts and stealing script lines and...
SPACEY: We can.
CHUNG: You can? Oh my gosh.
SPACEY: Essentially, we ask the people to come to the site, that they're responsible for protecting their own work.
CHUNG: How do you do that?
SPACEY: Well, you can go to the Library of Congress. You can go to the Writer's Guild. I mean, there are all kinds of ways in which people register their work.
CHUNG: I see.
SPACEY: So that if at any time a film came along that had very similar ideas. I mean, this is what happens all the time in the film business. You know, sometimes you get -- you suddenly find yourself in a litigation on a movie I might have made that somebody else says is similar to something else. So we can't protect their work, but we can expose it and can hopefully give them an opportunity to listen to good advice, you know, even if it's blunt advice.
CHUNG: OK, this is a question out of the blue.
SPACEY: Yeah.
CHUNG: How would you describe yourself?
SPACEY: Evolving.
CHUNG: No! Really?
SPACEY: Well, I think that I'm an enormously lucky fellow who I was raised by two pretty great parents. They taught me a lot, and I'm trying now to honor a lot of the things that they taught me as a young man.
CHUNG: Such as?
SPACEY: You know, how important it is to take responsibility for what it is that you do and to take it seriously and to try to -- I mean, I kind of look at myself almost like a facilitator. You know, I sort of feel like I've been placed here to bring people together and try to make them -- look, why I'm doing all of this and why I'm up to the things I'm up to is because nothing satisfies me more or makes me happier than when I see somebody get an opportunity and run with the ball, and get a chance, and the major reason is because it happened for me, you know.
And I know what that feels like. I know what it feels like to have doors slammed in your face and be told you're not good enough, and you're not this enough and you're quirky and you don't quite fit into a mold. I am really happy that there were a lot of people who had faith in me long before I even had it in myself, who gave me a leg up, and I think that the kind of person I am is now trying to sort of give that back, because I don't know what else to do with it.
CHUNG: Did you have to take jobs in, you know, other professions in order to survive?
SPACEY: Oh, yes. I sold shoes. I sold shoes at the Galant Camp (ph) shoe store in the Northridge Mall. I sold on subscription television door to door in Orange County, California.
CHUNG: Really?
SPACEY: And let me tell you, this was one of the earliest cable companies and our tag line was we had to knock on the door and say "hi, have you turned on yet?" And then usually -- humiliating. I worked in a restaurant for two shifts, and then they fired me.
CHUNG: Oh, why? What did you do wrong?
SPACEY: I just wasn't -- I wasn't meant to be a waiter.
CHUNG: You couldn't hold double plates on one hand?
SPACEY: Something about the amount of crockery that was being broken.
CHUNG: That's a pity.
SPACEY: Yes, but I'm grateful for that.
And probably one of the most interesting jobs I had, because it led to other things, was when I had done Shakespeare in the park, which was my first job in New York, playing a spear carrier, and I went back to Joseph Papp, who was the producer of the New York Shakespeare Festival, and he gave me a job in the stockroom at the Public Theater. So I handed out pencils and pads to directors, and eventually worked my way up into his office, and it's really because of him that I ended up really getting out in the town, because he came to see an off, off, off-Broadway play that I did and brought me into his office the next day and fired me. And I thought, what have I done?
And he said, well, last night I saw an actor on stage. And like a father, he pushed me out into the streets of New York, and four months later he and his wife Gail were in the opening night audience of my first Broadway play.
CHUNG: Oh, my goodness, it's a wonderful story.
SPACEY: It's a great story, but it's true. And, you know, so I -- sometimes these odd jobs that you think aren't going to lead to anything actually end up leading to your first big breaks.
CHUNG: OK, so you have got another movie coming out. It's -- it deals with the death penalty issue, and there's this incredible twist that occurs in your character. Give us one or two lines on that.
SPACEY: Will, in the film, it's called "The Life of David Gail," which is directed by Alan Parker, one of the great directors, I play a very well known and very popular college professor of philosophy, who also happens to be the leading opponent of the death penalty in the state of Texas. In the course of the film, he's accused of a crime that you see and you know he didn't do it, but later on in the film, after his reputation has been damaged, he's accused of the murder of a colleague.
Now, you don't see that happen. So the leading opponent of the death penalty in Texas winds up on death row, and the film is six years later, when he's finally agreed to talk to a journalist, played by Kate Winslet, and it's four days before his execution, and she has four days to find out whether he did it or not.
CHUNG: Oh, you got me hanging there. You really do.
SPACEY: Well, what I liked about this movie is is that it isn't a pro-con argument. The death penalty is kind of the politics that are underneath what is a thriller on top, and I actually think that the issue tends to trickle down as opposed to it being a film in which you have to take a side.
But just from my own point of view, I played Clarence Darryl once and he was one of the staunchest opponents of the death penalty, and in fact, saved the lives of many a convicted criminal. And, you know, you listen to his words about it, and boy, does it make a lot of sense, but then again, I've never had my sister murdered. But I also can understand how a family would feel that they're looking for some kind of justice, but I do get a sense, very often, that families walk away from those kind of executions and they don't feel...
CHUNG: No closure.
SPACEY: No, there's no closure. So I think, clearly as a society, if you look at the fact that we've gone from hangings to firing squads to electric chair to basically putting people to sleep, that just from a societal point of view, we've clearly gotten more and more humane, and clearly, the issue is an uncomfortable one for us as a society, and I suspect that the debate is going to go on for some time.
CHUNG: All right. I thank you so much for being with us.
SPACEY: Thank you.
CHUNG: Hope you have a good holiday.
SPACEY: I will indeed. I will indeed.
CHUNG: Happy holiday season.
SPACEY: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you.
SPACEY: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: "The Life of David Gail" is set for release February 21.
When we come back, he ran from police, then he ran from the judge. Huh? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: This story was one of the most unique at CNN in a while. It's about a sentence handed down by Judge Michael Cicconetti of Painesville, Ohio, after 33-year-old Michael Logar ran from police when they pulled over the car he was in. The judge sentenced him to run the annual five-mile Johnny Cake jog against rival runners, including police officers. His finish was to determine his sentence. In other words, the better his time, the better his time.
We spoke with Michael Logar while he was still in training and still in custody. He was given special permission to join us from Cleveland, and Judge Cicconetti came here to New York. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us. Mr. Logar, why did you run? Because certainly, you were just the passenger in the car, and you started running away from police, and you were drunk. Did you really think that you could outrun a sober police officer?
MICHAEL LOGAR, SENTENCED FOR FLEEING POLICE: No.
CHUNG: Why did you run?
LOGAR: Basically, I had a warrant for my arrest for contempt of court, and I had been drinking since that morning. And it was just a foolish act that I had done while being intoxicated.
CHUNG: When you went before this judge, did you have any idea that he had these sort of out of the box, off, a little weird, a little different sense of humor, and that he was going to give you some kind of creative sentence?
LOGAR: Actually, Mrs. Chung, I had heard of his sentencing before prior to this. But at the moment, it was -- I was basically involved with -- I have a 10-week-old daughter and I didn't want to lose my condominium, so I was working and I had tried to negotiate a deal with the prosecutor and the public defender, where I would be able to continue to work to pay the bills and maintain employment and still be able to keep my condominium.
CHUNG: All right. I'm going to talk to the judge for a minute. Judge Cicconetti, you have a great sense of humor, I have to tell you. You're very creative. I know what you suggested here. You've done this a lot of times, what, for eight years?
MICHAEL CICCONETTI, JUDGE: About eight-and-a-half years, yes.
CHUNG: The one that I love the most is the man who called the police officer a pig, and what did you do to him?
CICCONETTI: Well, first of all, police officers, they don't deserve to be called those types of names. They're hard working, every day they go out, they put their life on the line.
So after I had heard repeatedly his remarks about pig and, of course, prefaced by some other colorful language, I decided that it was time to teach the man a lesson.
And I gave him a choice between doing substantial jail time or standing in the busy intersection of Painesville, Ohio, standing next to a 350-pound pig with a sign that said, "This is not a police officer."
I think the point was made.
CHUNG: That's great. That's great. Let's see. There's another one here, a defendant made highly prejudicial remarks about a black police officer, and you made him spend 10 days community work with the NAACP.
CICCONETTI: Of course we checked with the NAACP first, and they killed him with kindness, and we haven't had him back.
CHUNG: All right. Thank you. Let me ask you -- I just want to ask him one more question. Do you think, Michael, that this was a good sentence? That this was good for you? You only have about 15 seconds.
LOGAR: Basically, the sentence was fitting. I believe it taught me a lot about my alcohol problem. And it's keeping me fit. And hopefully I'll be able to do OK in the race and get home with my family as soon as possible. And I believe the judge was more than fair and adequate with the sentence.
CHUNG: Wonderful. Well, good luck to you tomorrow, and good luck with the drinking problem. I hope that you lick it. And don't you, too?
CICCONETTI: That would be a measure of any judge's success, if we could turn his life around.
CHUNG: Judge, thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Logar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Michael Logar finished fifth in the race. Instead of serving five more days in jail, however, he was given credit for good behavior. He served the remainder of his time under house arrest and he's still serving out his two years on probation. And Judge Cicconetti is still serving up unusual sentences when he thinks there are better alternatives.
So stay with us for a look at tomorrow's program.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tomorrow, if Michael Jackson is the king of pop, what does that make Jermaine? We'll talk to Jermaine about life in the Jackson family and his brother's controversies. "LARRY KING LIVE" is up next. Thank you so much for joining us and for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
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