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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Interview With Raelians Leader; David Westerfield Sentenced to Death
Aired January 3, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: a custody battle unlike any in human history. What should be done with the alleged cloned baby?
ANNOUNCER: A baby custody battle is brewing, but where's the baby? Renewed controversy over an alien cult and what it calls the first cloned human being. We'll meet the group's leader and the man who's taking him on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA VAN DAM, MOTHER OF DANIELLE: Our precious Danielle was taken by a monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A mother faces her daughter's killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. VAN DAM: Why did you not let her go? Why didn't you drop her off in a safe place? If you had done so, she would be with her family now and you would not be facing death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: the story of a mother who says Westerfield deserves no mercy.
Four Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan: Two American top guns are being blamed. Tonight, a mother says her son is a scapegoat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN SCHMIDT, MOTHER OF MAJOR HARRY SCHMIDT: My son is an honorable man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A fatal mistake or a prescription for disaster?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS")
ELIJAH WOOD, ACTOR: Nothing ever dampens your spirits, does it, Sam?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Sean Astin, a heroic Hobbit in the epic fantasy "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, shares tall tales with Connie.
And "Our Person of the Day" who gave the gift of life to a stranger.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight: It's not just a weird story. It is a story unlike any in human history. And it just gets more and more strange. It started with the claim, still unsubstantiated, that a baby clone has been born, Eve, the first human clone, according to a religious sect that believes aliens create life on Earth. The Raelian sect claims more clones are on the way.
Well, tonight there are reports that the Raelians are fearful that Eve's mother may lose her baby, this after a lawyer filed suit asking a legal guardian be appointed to take custody of Eve.
The lawyer who filed suit is Bernard Siegel, who joins us from Miami. And the Raelian leader, who asks us to call him his holiness, and he holds that all humans are descended from clones, joins us from Sherbrooke, Canada.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being joining us.
You want to be called your holiness. I will absolutely do that.
You have not seen this baby. You haven't met the parents. There isn't any evidence that this baby actually exists.
RAEL, LEADER OF RAELIANS: Good evening.
I don't think so. And I want to make something very clear at the beginning. The cloning company and
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: I know that the cloning company, you are no longer connected to it. I understand that.
RAEL: Not at all.
CHUNG: I want to know if there is any evidence. Have you seen -- do you know of anyone who has met the parents or seen the baby to prove that it actually exists?
RAEL: Nothing. I know nothing. And I don't even know the name of the company, because Dr. Boisselier created a company last year in the United States with (CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: Then, why should anyone believe that there is indeed a cloned baby?
RAEL: That's a question. And until there are proofs, I think it is good to have doubt. And I am, like everybody, waiting for proof to happen.
CHUNG: You do doubt that there might be -- might not be a cloned baby?
RAEL: I trust Dr. Boisselier. So, I think there is, because I have no reason to doubt her. And I think she was ready with this journalist, the American journalist, Michael Guillen, to create a team to check if it was really a cloned baby with genetic testing. But then this...
CHUNG: But that DNA testing will not occur anyway. And you have even recommended that it not proceed. Why? What are you afraid of?
RAEL: Yes.
Oh, I am afraid to separate the little child, the little baby from the mother. And I have no power on Dr. Boisselier. She do whatever she want. But I am just her spiritual leader. And I told her: Even if your reputation is at stake, to take away a little baby from the mother for stupid reasons is terrible. And I think -- I told her: It is better to lose your reputation than to make that happen.
CHUNG: All right, Bernard Siegel, this is really not your business. You're not connected with this case in any way. Why are you filing suit?
BERNARD SIEGEL, ATTORNEY: Well, as I see it, this child needs a guardian.
When I first heard this story, I was as stunned as anyone else. I didn't see any action being taken by any governmental agency to protect the child. And under Florida law, a citizen has a right, if they have knowledge of an abused child or an endangered child, to bring an action to seek a guardian appointed. So I filed that action. And I think this child does need a guardian.
CHUNG: But, Mr. Siegel, there is no evidence that even a child exists.
SIEGEL: This company, Clonaid, saw fit to come to Broward County, Florida, and announce to the world that they had created the first cloned human being. Taking it at face value, something should be done about it.
CHUNG: Your holiness, isn't this really a hoax?
RAEL: I don't think so. I have every reason to believe that Dr. Boisselier really did a great job trying to (CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: Why do you have every reason to believe that this woman, Brigitte Boisselier, has indeed told the truth?
RAEL: Because I trust her. She's a very honest person. And until now, she never deceived me or was in any way something I can have doubt about. So, I trust her.
CHUNG: Don't you think that you and she might be, if you admit it, just seeking publicity?
RAEL: I have all the benefits and not the risk, because she has created the company. She is doing that. And she's -- her own reputation is at risk.
She's just a Raelian. And if she was Christian, you would not talk like that to the Catholic pope. So, it is her religion. And I support her belief. I support what she's doing now.
CHUNG: Now, you say it is a religion. However, there have been reports that you freely have sex with women followers of you. How can the American public believe that you aren't anything but a megalomaniac who is the head of some crazy cult?
RAEL: This is pure defamation. And this is completely false.
We have many American members who come to our meetings every year. We have a huge meeting in July in Quebec for one week on a big campaign. And they have seen the truth. And you can talk to them. The national -- the person responsible of the national Raelian movement in America, Ricky Roehr, who is in Las Vegas, can talk to you also.
And he has seen many, many Raelian and many, many meeting of the movement and never ever there is this kind of thing. It is some tabloid tried to make a scandal with our beliefs.
CHUNG: Mr. Siegel, some might question why you did get involved. Is it because you wanted publicity?
SIEGEL: No.
If someone has knowledge of an abused child, there is a legal and moral obligation to report it to the authorities and take some action. They inflicted some medical experiment, untested, unproven medical experiment on an innocent child. And that child probably has genetic defects, given the results of animal cloning, without any medical safety net.
So if there is a baby Eve, what medical safety net has Clonaid provided? Where is Clonaid's hospital? What happens if, a month down the road, it is not really a bouncing baby girl, but a little girl that is sick, with a genetic defect, and there is no medical research to treat her and to safeguard her?
CHUNG: All right, we may be able to get more information on -- is it January 22 when there is a court date?
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: There will be a court date on January 22, correct, Mr. Siegel?
SIEGEL: Yes. January 22, there is an arraignment hearing on this case.
CHUNG: All right, very quickly, Rael?
RAEL: Yes.
CHUNG: In 10 seconds, please.
RAEL: Yes.
First of all, if there is a baby, according to what Dr. Boisselier says, she was born not in the United States, conceived not in the United States. So, there is absolutely no jurisdiction from Florida or anywhere else. This was just
(CROSSTALK)
SIEGEL: Then they should do the DNA test. Do the DNA test, then.
RAEL: That's not of your business.
CHUNG: Why won't you do a DNA test, sir?
RAEL: Ah, but it has nothing to do with the custody of the child who is not in America, was not conceived in America. There is no jurisdiction about that.
SIEGEL: Then they shouldn't use this case as an excuse.
CHUNG: All right, gentlemen, I thank you so much. I wish I could talk to you longer.
Coming up next: A mother faces the man who murdered her child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA VAN DAM, MOTHER OF DANIELLE: Did she not touch your heart one bit? If not, you are heartless. You are an empty shell. You are nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: the frantic search for a pregnant woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARON ROCHA, MOTHER OF LACI PETERSON: We feel Scott has nothing to do with it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But police are asking for help to verify her husband's alibi.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: It was almost a year ago that the nation watched in agony as police searched for 7-year-old Danielle van Dam. She had been snatched from her San Diego home and her nude body was found almost a month later along a highway 25 miles away.
Today, it all came to an emotional end, as Danielle's parents faced their daughter's killer, their former neighbor, and asked the judge to make him pay the ultimate price.
CNN's Frank Buckley on this emotionally charged day in the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Brenda van Dam said she could never adequately express how she felt.
B. VAN DAM: How can I as a mother find words, meaningful words, that would express how this unspeakable crime has affected my family? I can't. Her father can't. Her brothers can't. Yet this is where our family finds ourself in a courtroom standing across from the man who murdered our precious daughter and who greedily stole the heart out of our family.
But I can tell you how it felt to not know where Danielle was for 26 terrifying days, to know that someone else knew where she was and it was not her mommy or her daddy, but an evil stranger, it was sickening, and I felt like my heart was breaking in two and I was dying from the inside.
You sat by smugly as thousands of people frantically searched for Danielle, and her family anguished over finding her. It disgusts me that your sick fantasies and your pitiful needs made you feel that you needed Danielle more than her family.
I ask you, why did you not let her go? Why didn't you drop her off in a safe place? If you had done so, she would be with her family now and you would not be facing death. What were you thinking as you killed her? Did you not -- did she not touch your heart one bit? If not, you are heartless. You are an empty shell. You are nothing. If she did, reclaim some decency and apologize to her brothers, her parents and your own children and this community.
DAMON VAN DAM, FATHER OF DANIELLE: Danielle was my daughter, my only daughter, my only Danielle. I'll never get to see her grow up. I'll miss her first date. I know she would be such a smart, independent person.
I'll miss seeing her go to the prom. She would have had so much fun getting ready for the big date. I'll miss her graduation. And it most likely would have been with honors. She was a hard worker. I'll miss seeing her go off to college. And I'll wonder what she would have become. She often talked about being a veterinarian or a dentist.
I'll miss seeing her on her wedding day. I won't get to walk her down the aisle.
I'll miss seeing her become a mom. She's such a good -- I know she would have been a great mom. As the years pass, and all these things don't happen, all I'll have are the memories of her, some old pictures and videos and dreams of her, which I hope are always as vivid as they are now, and having to know how brutal the last hours of her life were. My heart and my wife's heart have been broken and my other two children have been deeply hurt.
B. VAN DAM: What were you thinking as you killed her? Did you not -- did she not touch your heart one bit? If not, you are heartless, you are an empty shell, you are nothing.
BUCKLEY: Defense attorney Steven Feldman was also passionate in his arguments to spare Westerfield's life. He said some of the police in the case violated Westerfield's rights in their quest for a conviction.
STEVEN FELDMAN, ATTORNEY FOR DAVID WESTERFIELD: We are a society of law. We have a social contract. In our society, the ends do not justify the means.
In this case, our social contract, the court found, was violated by law enforcement. Our constitutional system of justice has been attacked in this case. It's been attacked in the print media. It's been attacked in the visual media. We're all under attack by doing our jobs. The independence of the court is threatened, the independence of the judiciary is threatened by these behaviors, your honor. We fear that politics in this case, in this case, had a role in the determination as to whether or not to seek death for Mr. Westerfield. That's a terrible thing.
I ask you, take the high road. I ask you, don't acquiesce to the heart less killing of another. I ask you, don't be swayed by the lynch mob mentality we've seen in our community.
Life without possibility of parole, Your Honor, provides a closure in this case that we can't get otherwise.
JEFF DUSEK, PROSECUTOR: This was not a politically motivated case. This was a criminally motivated case.
There are many things that we will never know in this case: why that child, why that night, how did he really do it, when did he do it? But we will know one thing for certain, that he did it, and he deserves the death penalty. BUCKLEY: After hearing it all, Westerfield was given a chance to speak for himself.
JUDGE WILLIAM MUDD, SAN DIEGO SUPERIOR COURT: All right, Mr. Westerfield, is there anything you'd like to say sir.
DAVID WESTERFIELD, CONVICTED OF MURDER: No, sir. Thank you.
MUDD: All right.
BUCKLEY: And with that, the judge made his ruling.
MUDD: That for the crime of murder in the first degree, committed under the special circumstance that the murder was committed during the course and scope of a kidnapping, that you shall be put to death within the walls of the California state prison at San Quentin in the manner prescribed by law upon a date to be fixed by this court in a warranty of execution.
BUCKLEY: The penalty will be automatically appealed.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: In the courtroom for today's testimony was Court TV reporter Beth Karas, who joins us from San Diego.
Beth, I was watching the CNN coverage of the van Dams. And it was just heartbreaking to listen to them. It must have been considerably harder in the courtroom.
BETH KARAS, COURT TV: It sure was, Connie.
I was sitting about two, three feet away from Brenda and Damon when they were delivering their statements. And everyone around just started crying. The courtroom had maybe 100 spectators. And throughout their statement and until the hearing ended, even after they stopped talking, I continued to see people dabbing their eyes and hear them sniffling and pulling out their tissues.
It was really hard to fight back the tears. You just felt her pain. She was very articulate. But I paid close attention to Westerfield. He didn't seem to show much emotion, didn't ever look at her. But he was turned slightly in his chair toward her, but he would not face her or Damon. And he did have a frown on his face, as though he was concentrating or really paying attention to what was being said, but he did not face her.
CHUNG: Beth, this could have been a moment of closure for the van Dams. The judge actually went into a descriptive part, in which he actually described what happened to Danielle van Dam. Let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MUDD: The victim's body, when found, was unclothed and had teeth missing, the likely result of trauma to her face. The wait of this factor is of enormous magnitude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Beth, I can't imagine the van Dams sitting there and listening to that.
KARAS: It is interesting you picked that piece of tape, because that happened before the victim-impact statements were given. That was the very beginning of the hearing today.
And it was at that very point that you just played where Brenda van Dam, seated right across from me, bent over and started crying audibly. And people around her were consoling her. The jurors were seated -- well, 10 of the 16 jurors, a couple alternates and seven deliberating jurors were there today. They were just a few rows behind her. And it was the first emotional outbreak in the courtroom, what you just played.
CHUNG: I think everyone is wondering if David Westerfield responded in any way. Did he visually seem anguished at all? Because I understand that he has been writing to his friends, saying he had nothing to do with the murder.
KARAS: That's right.
He did not have any visible signs today, to me, except, his expression was different from the four months of the trial, in that his forehead was a little crinkled and he seemed to be concentrating. You didn't hear the -- I mean, see the little shaking of his head that was occurring throughout the trial. He said, as reported in today's local paper here in San Diego, that he was emotionless during the trial on advice of counsel, that he wanted to testify at trial, but he heeded to his attorneys' advice not to testify.
But, most importantly, he has been denying -- according to this report, which is in -- refers to Christmas cards, holiday cards, he sent to friends, as well as things he said in jail visits since the verdict, he had nothing to do with her death; he doesn't know how her blood got on his jacket or her fingerprints in his motor home, but he had nothing to do with this little girl's death.
CHUNG: Beth Karas, always good to have you with us. Thank you.
KARAS: Thank you.
CHUNG: Coming up shortly on "LARRY KING LIVE": Brenda van Dam.
And before we go to a break: a pep talk from the boss tops our look at "The World in: 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): President Bush rallies the troops. At Fort Hood, Texas, the largest U.S. Army base, the commander in chief tells soldiers -- quote -- "Crucial hours are ahead" and vows victory if the U.S. goes to war against Iraq.
Anti-war protests flare at Pakistan and Bahrain. Thousands of demonstrators take to the streets to protest a possible U.S. war with Iraq and the presence of American troops in the Persian Gulf nation of Bahrain.
More protests in Venezuela: Police fire tear gas at pro- and anti-government demonstrators in Caracas. Tens of thousands of people rallied to support a five-week-old oil strike against President Hugo Chavez.
The U.S. rejects calls for nuke talks. The White House says it won't hold talks with North Korea until Pyongyang freezes its nuclear weapons program. Earlier, Korea's ambassador to China said his country was open to nuclear discussions.
Cyclone Zoe ravages Solomon Islands: Monstrous waves as high as 33 feet destroy as many as 400 homes on these remote Pacific islands. After five days, casualties are still unknown.
Chain-smoking in China: No butts about it, in 2001, China accounted for more than 40 percent of the world's cigarette consumption.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: an epic tale of Hobbit heroes and spectacular special effects, Sean Astin and "The Lord of the Rings" -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Did amphetamines contribute to American airmen killing four soldiers in a friendly-fire incident in Afghanistan? On April 17, U.S. Air Force Majors Harry Schmidt and William Umbach were flying their F-16s over Afghanistan. After seeing what they said looked like hostile fire on the ground, Schmidt dropped a 500-pound bomb that hit Canadian troops, killing four of them, wounding eight.
Now with an unprecedented court-martial starting this month, the two airmen face military charges of involuntary manslaughter. A U.S.- Canadian panel cited -- quote -- "the failure of the two pilots to exercise appropriate flight discipline, which resulted in a violation of the rules of engagement and an inappropriate use of lethal force."
It has emerged that the two airmen were both on amphetamines. The fact is, that's not only common. The amphetamines, known as go pills, are prescribed by the military to combat fatigue, especially on lengthy missions. The families of the airmen also blame poor communication and claim the Air Force is making them into scapegoats.
We'll hear from two family members in just a moment.
But, earlier, I spoke with Major Schmidt's lawyer, Charles Gittins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Charles Gittins, thank you so much for being with us.
CHARLES GITTINS, ATTORNEY FOR MAJOR HARRY SCHMIDT: A pleasure, Connie.
CHUNG: I think it came as a big surprise to all of us in the public that the military actually issues, standard procedure, amphetamines, or uppers or speed, to pilots to combat exhaustion. But the military, in this case against your client, is saying that this was purely voluntary, low dose, and it should not cause any problem.
GITTINS: Well, that's a wonderful platitude, but, of course, there is no data to back that up.
Unfortunately, pilots were medically tested. They were ground tested for medical effects, but they were not ground tested at any time for performance effects. And it is an unknown factor as to how the use of amphetamines will affect perception and will affect judgment, both known effects of amphetamines.
CHUNG: Well, that also means that you don't have any evidence or proof, if they weren't tested.
GITTINS: But, then again, I'm the defense lawyer. My job is to establish reasonable doubt.
CHUNG: Basically, are you going to put forward an amphetamine defense?
GITTINS: Well, we're going raise all the issues that we think bore on the accident.
Principally, this accident would have been -- was completely preventable, had the generals who were running the air war put in place a system, so that pilots would have known that there was a friendly exercise going on the ground in an area where they were flying combat missions. That failure of information is what cost the Canadians their lives.
CHUNG: But the military is saying, these men did not follow procedure, that there may very well have been some kind of miscommunication, but in fact they did not follow procedure. No one gave your client the go-ahead to drop a bomb.
GITTINS: Right.
And the Joints Chiefs of Staff standing rules of engagement provide that an air crew that witnesses a hostile act which they believe is directed at them has the right and obligation of self- defense. It can't be overridden by an air controller and it can't be overridden by the president of the United States.
CHUNG: Well, what do you think is really going on here? GITTINS: Well, I think there was a lack of judgment made.
Early on, I think people were swayed by what was a clearly biased and unprofessionally prepared coalition investigative board report. And I think they rushed to judgment without actually reviewing the report that was provided by General Sargeant. I think, had it been reviewed in the detail that we have reviewed it, they would have found that it was fundamentally flawed.
CHUNG: Well, there have been charges that this was really to appease the Canadians, so that the Canadians could be brought on board as part of the coalition in a war against Iraq. Do you believe that that is the bias that you're talking about?
GITTINS: Well, the bias, I think, that appears in the investigative report is a personal bias by the investigating officer who conducted that investigation.
If, in fact, this prosecution, this proceeding, is the result of an attempt to placate the Canadians, the generals who are allowing it to happen should be relieved and they should be sent home, because they do not -- they're not fit to command.
CHUNG: All right, Charles Gittins, thank you so much for being with us.
GITTINS: Very well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining us now: Major Schmidt's mother, Joan, and Major Umbach's sister, Dana Busch.
Thank you both for being with us.
JOAN SCHMIDT, MOTHER OF MAJOR HARRY SCHMIDT: Thank you, Connie.
DANA BUSCH, SISTER OF MAJOR WILLIAM UMBACH: Thank you.
CHUNG: Joan, I know that your son is considered a highly regarded pilot, a top gun, now facing 64 years in prison on charges of manslaughter. How you do think he got into this position? What has he told you?
SCHMIDT: As a mother, he has said that he was flying a mission and that they believed that they were under attack and they believed that they were in harm's way. And his training as an officer -- he used his training to do what he had to do to protect himself.
CHUNG: Did he tell you that he got the go-ahead to do so? Because the military claims he did not get the go-ahead to drop a bomb.
SCHMIDT: No, he did not tell me that he got the go-ahead to drop a bomb.
CHUNG: He was simply reacting because he felt he was being fired upon?
SCHMIDT: You're correct.
CHUNG: All right. Did you know that he had been taking amphetamines?
SCHMIDT: I didn't know this until about two months ago, when Lisa, his wife, who is a nurse, told me about the go pills, no-go pills.
CHUNG: And do you think that it affected his performance or does he think it affected his performance?
SCHMIDT: I can't tell you. I'm not a doctor. I'm just a mom.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: OK, Joan.
Let me switch over to Dana, then.
Dana, what has your brother told you as well about what happened and whether or not the amphetamines affected his performance?
BUSCH: Well, Bill really hasn't talked to much about whether he thinks that the amphetamines affected his performance.
You have to remember, the dosage that these guys took is about as much as a kid on Ritalin would take to get through half of a school day. So, there are so many factors in this case that the drug use that they have to have to fly those missions, that's just one very small part of the whole situation.
CHUNG: Apparently, the military says the reason why they go ahead and prescribe these amphetamines is because they sometimes fly missions that last 10 hours, 12 hours, and they just need it to be alert.
BUSCH: Well, that's very true. Those pilots flying to Afghanistan and back, they can get there. But to be able to alertly fly back and land a plane, a fighter jet pilot has to be alert enough and awake enough. And you're talking about an individual in a single- seat jet flying -- having to be alert to do their mission, for one thing. And to be able to return, hook up with tankers to refuel in air, you have to have a man that is alert up there.
I don't think we on the ground can envision what it is like to be up there that long. Probably the best example that we could do is a long car trip without stopping, without stopping and stretching, without stopping and getting a drink or something to eat. So, you can understand why they would need that to be able to fulfill their mission.
CHUNG: Dana Busch, I thank you so much for being with us.
And, Joan Schmidt, thank you as well. SCHMIDT: Thank you very much.
BUSCH: You're welcome.
CHUNG: Up next: Laci Peterson, she's eight months pregnant and hasn't been seen since Christmas. Why aren't authorities talking about her husband today?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Laci Peterson, missing 10 days now, she was eight months pregnant when she disappeared Christmas Eve. And the clock is ticking. Yesterday, police wanted to know anything they could about her husband, Scott's, activities that day.
Today, despite the lack of clues, they said they aren't giving up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DET. DOUG RIDENOUR, MODESTO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have still hope that Laci Peterson is out there and alive. And so we think it is critical. And as long as the media wants to continue to cover this, we're going to be here and provide as much information as we can and get the community's support.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Joining us now from Modesto, as he did last night, Police Chief Roy Wasden.
Thank you, sir, for being with us.
ROY WASDEN, MODESTO POLICE CHIEF: Thank you, Connie. And it's good to be with you.
CHUNG: Chief, your spokesperson said today that he could no longer answer questions about Scott Peterson, Laci's husband. Why not?
WASDEN: Yes.
Well, there's -- the investigation is going forward. We're not going to discuss in depth the investigation. As we have said all along, Scott is still included in the investigation. And that's not pejorative in nature, rather just a reflection of the logical sequence we have to go through. And there is a lot of speculation, a lot of questions being asked, but that's the way we need to conduct this investigation. And we're continuing on that path.
CHUNG: Your department has repeatedly said that you would like to eliminate Scott Peterson from the investigation. Have you been able to eliminate him?
WASDEN: We have not.
CHUNG: You have not.
That would cause one to believe that perhaps there are suspicions, that you have been given a tip or a lead that has led you to believe that perhaps his alibi is not solid.
WASDEN: Well, we're, as we announced yesterday, looking for corroborating information. And so, we're continuing to look for that and any other information that might come in.
We were very heartened to be able to solve a burglary that occurred across the street from Laci's home and eliminate that from our investigation into Laci's disappearance.
CHUNG: Yes, absolutely.
WASDEN: And so, we'll continue to follow up every lead that we can and move forward in a logical fashion in this investigation.
CHUNG: Yes, that burglary was of concern. There were some who believed that perhaps it was connected to her disappearance. So, what you've established is that it was not connected to her disappearance.
WASDEN: That's correct. And the resources from that burglary now can be redirected elsewhere.
CHUNG: I see.
Can you at least tell us if your investigators spoke with Scott Peterson today?
WASDEN: I can't. We can't comment on that. And, in fact, I haven't even debriefed with the investigators from the day yet. Typically, we do so in the evening. So, I don't know at this point. But if I did know, I wouldn't be able to comment, Connie.
CHUNG: All right. Yesterday, your representatives asked the public to help, if they had seen Scott Peterson's trailer or his boat at any time on the days around her disappearance, they would like to know about it. And I understand you received 300 tips.
WASDEN: Connie, obviously, your show is very watched. And we appreciate that. We appreciate the attention and coverage.
And, in fact, right after that, we were flooded with many new information calls, tips. And so, we're heartened by that. We're glad to have the information. We'd ask people to continue to pay attention. And, who knows, the next phone call could be the one that gets this solved for us.
CHUNG: Chief Wasden, I thank you so much for being with us. We'll check in with you again on Monday. We appreciate your coming in and talking to us.
WASDEN: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Unfortunately, a case with too many similarities tops tonight's "Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): A father's plea: In Oregon, Paul Morris publicly begs his son to surrender. Edward Morris is accused of killing his pregnant wife and three children last month. He's been on the run ever since.
The high cost of junk: A new study says Internet junk mail is delivering a hefty blow to corporations. It takes 4.4 seconds to deal with every piece of Internet spam, adding up to $4 billion a year in lost productivity for U.S. businesses.
Punch card giveaway: Florida gives away 140,000 punch card ballots, hanging chads and all, from the controversial 2000 election.
A shark's life: Jigsaw, the 4-foot shark, gets news digs at the Monterey Bay Aquarium after outgrowing his home of two years, his owner's living room aquarium.
The great chicken rescue: A good samaritan saves a sick chicken who fell off a truck. Lucky thing. That truck was headed to the slaughterhouse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next: The only girl on a high school hockey team says she faces her toughest opponent off the ice: harassment.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Right or wrong, we think of hockey players as tough. They go after their opponents hard. They slam them against the boards, check them on the ice. But why would they go after one of their own teammates?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Growing up in New England, 15-year-old Celena McDonnell has always played hockey.
CELENA MCDONNELL, HOCKEY PLAYER: I just lost sport. I just want to play. I wish that Attleboro High had a girl's team, but I guess they don't. So, my only other option is to play with the boys.
CHUNG (voice-over): She says she endured some hazing while playing as a freshman on the junior varsity team last year.
C. MCDONNELL: I don't think they liked it because I was a girl. I don't know why they would single me out, because there was another girl on the team. But they would call me names, harass me, make fun of me a lot.
CHUNG: But, as the new hockey season approached, the trouble got worse. She was harassed by the varsity players.
MICHAEL MCDONNELL, FATHER OF CELENA: Pushed into lockers, tripped, legs knocked out from under her, threatened, harassed, called different names. You know, it was just very demeaning to her. And the last straw, again, was the people chasing her around telling her they're going beat on her.
CHUNG: Celena's father, a police officer in Attleboro, Massachusetts, was so concerned for his daughter's safety, he asked school officials for help.
M. MCDONNELL: It's a safety issue for sure. It was put directly to the superintendent of Attleboro School Department: Can you ensure my daughter's safety? And the answer was: No, fights happen every day.
CHUNG: Celena's parents decided to pull her from school on November 14. Since then, she's been taught by a tutor. In the meantime, Celena continues to play for the J.V. team.
C. MCDONNELL: I feel as though the players that harass me shouldn't be able to play.
CHUNG: She plans to return to school on Monday to see if she can attend class without being bullied.
C. MCDONNELL: I love the sport so much that they're not going to win. I'm going play whether they like it or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: The school superintendent declined to appear on our program, but told us -- quote -- "We very forthrightly investigated the allegations. We concluded that some students were unkind and insensitive to Celena. Our problem is, there was no direct or hard evidence to pinpoint any individual of harassing her."
Celena McDonnell joins us now from Providence, Rhode Island, along with her father, Michael.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Celena, I think you've been playing hockey since you were what, 4 years old. Did you always want to play on the high school varsity team?
C. MCDONNELL: Yes. It was my dream.
CHUNG: It meant so much to you. So what exactly happened?
C. MCDONNELL: It's a long story.
I started off as a freshman. And the boys didn't quite like me. They would bully me around and stuff. And then, as I came into my junior year, it got worse. They would make fun of me. They would call me names. People would be pushing me. It's ridiculous. I just wanted to play.
CHUNG: Yes. It was really physical as well as name-calling?
C. MCDONNELL: Both physical and emotional.
CHUNG: Wasn't there another girl who actually played on a varsity team? She was a senior. How was she received?
C. MCDONNELL: Lindsay (ph)? She played. She was good. And I guess she got some harassment, but it was to a lesser extent. But she never came forward.
CHUNG: Why do you think you were harassed more than even her?
C. MCDONNELL: I don't know. I guess they just don't like me. I'm very forward. If I have something to say, I say it. I don't hold anything back.
CHUNG: Are you an aggressive player as well?
C. MCDONNELL: Yes, very aggressive.
CHUNG: You have to be, don't you, when you're playing hockey?
C. MCDONNELL: I give my heart. I give my heart to the sport.
CHUNG: Do you think you're a good player, Celena?
C. MCDONNELL: I think I'm outstanding.
CHUNG: Great.
C. MCDONNELL: I try my hardest. I give 110 percent, no matter what. I go out there every second like it is my last.
CHUNG: Michael, the school said it did investigate, maybe interviewed as many as 40 students, 40 people, but found it could not take any action. What did you want the school to do?
M. MCDONNELL: Well, what I wanted them to do was abide by their own policies and procedures, as well as their athletic code of conduct. That's what I insist that they do.
CHUNG: She's going back to school now, after being out since November. You had taken her out. Do you feel confident for her? You're concerned about her.
M. MCDONNELL: I'm still concerned.
I will concede for her to go back on a part-time, trial basis only because she needs the education. And they're required to provide a safe atmosphere for her, however they do that.
CHUNG: I know that she's been tutored in the meantime.
Celena, do you to still want to play on the varsity team, because I think you're playing on the J.V. team right now, right?
C. MCDONNELL: Yes. I'm playing on the J.V. team.
They've taken my dream away. I don't think I'll ever skate with the varsity players. Honestly, I really don't want to. I feel like they don't deserve to be there. When you're on a team, you treat every member with the same respect, male or female.
CHUNG: Celena, I thank you so much. Michael, thank you for being with us.
Do you plan any other action or do you think this is just going to be the end of it?
M. MCDONNELL: Well, we'll see how she's received in school. The matter is also in the hands of the district attorney. So, they will be investigating this as well in the near future.
CHUNG: Celena, are you concerned about going back to school?
C. MCDONNELL: Honestly, yes. I'm very concerned. I think there is a lot of immature people there. And I think a lot of people take advantage of the situation, especially a lot of people not involved, a lot of the girls. I feel they'll be the worst.
CHUNG: All right, I thank you so much for being with us.
Once again, the school superintendent would not talk to us.
When we come back: a "Lord of the Rings" hero, Sean Astin, ventures out of Middle Earth to tell me about life as a Hobbit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS")
SEAN ASTIN, ACTOR: We have to get out of here. You go. Go now. You can do it. Use the ring, Mr. Frodo, just this once. Put it on. Disappear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Sean Astin as Samwise in the "Lord of the Rings."
Like his comrades, he battles not just against evil, but against the temptation to use an awful power for a good cause. But, for all of that, the movie version of maybe the ultimate fantasy epic of all time is also about serious cash. "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" has made about a quarter of a billion dollars since it opened last month. Together, with "The Fellowship of the Ring," the series has made more than $1 billion worldwide.
And, in a rarity for such blockbusters, critics are loving its portrayal of a small band of Hobbits fighting horrible monsters. We won't tell you how it ends. After all, you can read the books. If that's too much to ask, don't worry, you can get more of the Hobbits and their comrades in December 2003 with "Return of the King."
And you can get a lot more of Samwise right now, because Sean Astin is with us today.
Thank you so much for being here.
ASTIN: Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: Now, you really are the breakout star of this movie. You practically steal it. I think everybody agrees with that. But what I would like to know is if you knew anything about "Lord of the Rings"? Had you read the book, because you got a BA in UCLA in only American literature, English, but history. And you graduated with honors, I should tell everyone.
ASTIN: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: So tell me, had you read it?
ASTIN: I am embarrassed to say that I had never even had heard about the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.
CHUNG: You see. There you go.
ASTIN: I know. I sort of missed it. My agent called me and said, "The Lord of the Rings" -- Peter Jackson is doing "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy for New Line. And I heard "Peter Jackson" and "trilogy." And she said it's the sequels to "The Hobbit." And that sort of rang a bell someone. I was thinking of "The Phantom Tollbooth" or something. I don't know.
I went to the -- I drove to the bookstore and I looked at the three shelves full of Tolkien Middle Earth world stuff. And I thought, what else have I been missing out on? But, no, I read it a lot. I got my hands on everything that I possibly could, all the different illustrations, all the different version that have been published in different countries.
CHUNG: And it is not easy to plow through either.
ASTIN: No, it wasn't.
In fact, I must, I didn't at first really like the story. I was studying it, because I knew I wanted to be a part of the project. But I wasn't into the world until I read "The Hobbit." And "The Hobbit" really opened it up for me. I don't know if it is because I have kids or for some reason. And then I was able to go back through the trilogy and read them three times and got a lot more out of it.
And now when I look at it, any time I pick it up, there is something else to connect with.
CHUNG: Well, the fact is, you shot this movie with a director you obviously admire. You're a director yourself. You shot all three movies together over for a period of 18 months. Let's take a look at a clip and then we'll talk about that. ASTIN: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS")
ASTIN: This looks strangely familiar.
WOOD: That's because we've been here before. We're going in circles.
ASTIN: What is that horrid stink? I wonder if there is a nasty bog nearby. Can you smell it?
WOOD: Yes, I can smell it. We're not alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: You look a little heavier in the movie.
ASTIN: A little? I put on 35 pounds to play that part.
CHUNG: You were supposed to?
ASTIN: I was supposed to, yes. I really wanted to be a part of it. I have always wanted -- I love David Lean movies and John Ford, big epic cinema. And it is not often in today's world that you get a chance to be a part of something like that.
And I knew that this was going to be something like that. So, Peter Jackson told my agent that it was between me and a heavyset actor in England that he had his eye on. And I just convinced him that I would put the 35 pounds on I would keep it for the year and a half. And I did.
CHUNG: Good for you.
Well, you've done a lot of convincing in your life, because I know that your parents didn't want you to become an actor. Everybody probably remembers you from "Rudy." But your parents are Patty Duke, your mom.
ASTIN: Patty Duke, yes.
CHUNG: And John Astin.
ASTIN: John Astin.
CHUNG: Who everybody remembers from "The Addams Family."
ASTIN: Gomez, sure.
CHUNG: Right? And they didn't want you really to become an actor.
(CROSSTALK)
ASTIN: I don't know if that's true. CHUNG: Really?
ASTIN: I don't know if that's true.
CHUNG: Well, that's what I read.
ASTIN: It's different.
My dad wanted to make sure that I always got a good education. That was his kind of standard for me was that I always was subject to the same curriculum that other students were, that I didn't go away and miss out on that experience. And he also wanted me to be able to play baseball and have a normal life.
But he helped me prepare for my audition for "Goonies." I would never have been in "Goonies" if it wasn't for my dad drilling me with the lines.
CHUNG: "Goonies," yes.
ASTIN: And my mom...
CHUNG: Your mother actually really helped you with the first movie.
ASTIN: That's right. That's right.
CHUNG: Will you tell me that story, quickly?
ASTIN: Yes. Absolutely.
She was offered a part in an ABC after-school special. And she said she would do it on the condition that I got to play the son, so, just nepotism as cold and hard as you can have it. And she basically came to me and said, "Sean, do you want to be in this movie?" I thought: Two weeks off of school? Sure, I'll do that.
CHUNG: You were 9?
ASTIN: I was, 8 or 9. I always say 7, but my dad always tells me I'm wrong, so either 8 or 9 or something like that. But I had to audition for it and prove that I could do it. And my mom was giving me, essentially, acting lessons on the job.
So, I'm very grateful to my parents for handing me such an unbelievable path early in life and also letting me know that I could do what I wanted, if it was different from that. So, they were always cautious. They always made sure that I knew what the pitfalls were, that there would be easier access to drugs and those kinds of things, when I was on sets and things, because people always want to make friends with the kids who are the stars, because...
CHUNG: You have the drugs. No, I'm kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
ASTIN: That's it. There goes my political career. You just ruined me right there.
You know what? So, I'm grateful to them for that. But, no, they weren't averse to it. And it's funny, because I have kids now. And I look at my daughter and I see her...
CHUNG: Well, what do you think?
ASTIN: I understand my parents now. I want her to have a really good education. I want her to be a well-rounded person.
But if that's what she wants, whatever she wants. And I'll give her whatever I can. And if that means putting her in a show, if it is appropriate and she seems to have the personality to -- I'm thinking of my oldest, because she's sort of ready for it now. She's 6, yes.
CHUNG: Right. Yes, great. Well, I'll fix her up with my son, who's 7.
ASTIN: Great. I'm sure she would love an older guy.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: OK, thank you, Sean.
ASTIN: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: Great to meet you.
ASTIN: Thank you. It was great.
CHUNG: Sean Astin.
Back in a moment with an exceptional person's exceptional gift to tell you about.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Who will be our "Person of the Day"?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight, our "Person of the Day" is really the person of a lifetime.
David Harper of Mount Morris, Illinois, saw an ad in a newspaper. The Rushford family of Madison, Wisconsin, was looking for a kidney to save the life of their sick little daughter, Angela. Harper didn't know the Rushford family. He had never met Angela. This morning, he gave her a kidney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HARPER, KIDNEY DONOR: She's got her whole life to go. I mean, my life is halfway over. But she's 4 years old. I mean, she's got at least 70 years, you know? Why not let her enjoy them, live a long and healthy life? (END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Isn't that amazing?
Harper says his faith called him to help the little girl. He also says he wants to encourage people to become organ donors. Helping strangers: a good cause and a good part of why David Harper is our "Person of the Day."
CHUNG: And, on Monday: a fugitive from the law accused of killing his three children and his pregnant wife. Who is Edward Morris and where is he hiding?
Coming up next "LARRY KING LIVE": Brenda van Dam, who confronted her daughter's killer in court today.
Thank you so much for joining us. For all of us at CNN, good night and have a great weekend. See you Monday.
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