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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Interview With Friends of Laci Peterson; Interview With George Foreman
Aired January 7, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: Without a lead, without a clue, her friends anguish over a missing young woman who is eight months pregnant.
ANNOUNCER: Two weeks and still not a clue, an expectant mother gone without a trace. Tonight, for the first time, we learn about Laci Peterson from her dearest friends.
Cops in hot pursuit of the bad guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he almost -- I don't know if he hit that UPS truck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But these chases can turn deadly. Tonight: Should the brakes be slammed on high-speed police chases?
A millionaire playboy on the lam? The heir to the Max Factor fortune, what did he do to face a possible life in prison?
And our "Person of the Day" rises again.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight: It's now two weeks since Laci Peterson disappeared from her home in Modesto, California. She was eight months pregnant at the time. Police have no clues, no leads and a dwindling reservoir of hope.
But, as CNN's Rusty Dornin reports, hundreds of friends and people who never even met her are not giving up yet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, how are you doing today?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hugs are always welcome at the Laci Peterson volunteer center, especially for Terri Western, who heads up the operation. When the mother-to-be disappeared Christmas Eve, for Western, it was very personal.
TERRI WESTERN, FRIEND OF LACI PETERSON: I got a call from my daughter Stacy. And she and Laci have been best friends since third grade. And Stacy was devastated. "Mom, Laci's missing."
DORNIN: It was too close. And Western felt she had to do something.
WESTERN: We are still making the ribbons. And those ribbons are for events that we have.
DORNIN (on camera): The search part of it for volunteers has scaled back quite a bit, but what are you trying to do here now?
WESTERN: What we're doing now is, we're keeping this volunteer center open to keep Laci's name out there, to keep her face out there. We want them back in the worst way. And that's our purpose, our sole purpose.
DORNIN (voice-over): Laci Peterson's husband and other family members come by every day.
WESTERN: Scott responds to a lot of the family e-mails. And then we print them out and pass them on to other family members as well.
DORNIN: Meanwhile, donations keep the center in a local hotel up and running.
WESTERN: We'll take this down and deposit with Stacy.
DORNIN: There's a special account at a local investment company.
WESTERN: There's a donation from the center for this morning. We put it into the Laci Peterson Foundation.
DORNIN: A stop at her office and a quick visit with her husband and real estate partner.
WESTERN: Are you going to show property?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WESTERN: OK.
DORNIN: Then back to the center.
WESTERN: Businesses are a little more receptive.
DORNIN: Western is here 8:00 to 6:00.
(on camera): It's become a full-time job.
WESTERN: Yes, it has. DORNIN: What has created such a hurt feeling among people who don't know Scott Laci that they want to help?
WESTERN: Look at that smile of Laci's. It's just -- that's how she always was and is. It's just that big, big grin. And it makes you just want to be involved as much as you can.
DORNIN (voice-over): Involved in a wholehearted effort to find a young woman that, to Western, has always felt like family.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, Modesto, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Terri Western's daughter Stacy, Laci Peterson's maid of honor at her wedding and best friend since third grade, is with us now from Modesto, along with some other of Laci's best friends, Renee Garza, Lori Ellsworth, and Rene Tomlinson, all sharing what they know about Laci in their first interviews on national television.
Thank you all for being with us. We so appreciate it.
Stacy, tell me, when was the last time you spoke to Laci?
STACY BOYERS, FRIEND OF LACI PETERSON: I spoke to Laci Monday night at 4:45. She called to wish me a merry Christmas.
CHUNG: So, that was the day before she disappeared. Did she sound at all upset about anything? Was anything peculiar about her conversation with you?
BOYERS: No. Nothing. She was happy as ever, I mean, ready for Christmas and cheerful.
CHUNG: That's the kind of person she always has been, isn't that right? Can you describe her?
BOYERS: Laci is always smiling. No matter where we are or what we're doing, she's always bubbly and talkative. And she's usually the center of attention.
CHUNG: Rene Tomlinson I know you were planning to give Laci her shower this Saturday. It's got to be heartbreaking for you.
RENE TOMLINSON, FRIEND OF LACI PETERSON: Yes, it is, to say the least.
CHUNG: What are you going to do, Renay, for this Saturday? You're going to hope that she comes back and celebrate?
TOMLINSON: We are praying that she comes back and we can continue on with the plans. And it will probably bigger than we had anticipated, but we're hoping that she's going to be here with us. And if she's not, then we are going to continue our efforts and hope that we have a good stream of volunteers that day.
CHUNG: I know you all are working at the command center.
Lori, you have known Laci, because both of you were cheerleaders at the same time in junior high school. She sounds to me as if she is the quintessential cheerleader, just a happy, out-there kind of person.
LORI ELLSWORTH, FRIEND OF LACI PETERSON: Definitely. Definitely. All through junior high and high school, she was the cheerleader. You saw that big smile. She just kept everybody going.
CHUNG: Renee Garza, I know you have known her since kindergarten, which is really amazing, that all of you have stayed in touch now, as you're adults.
Renee, tell me, what was her relationship with her husband, Scott?
RENEE GARZA, FRIEND OF LACI PETERSON: Their relationship was really good. They were very -- they are very, very happy. The two of them, you can't describe it. They're like schoolkids. They're like teenagers in love. They are. And they were very excited for the birth of their first son.
CHUNG: Had you ever seen them argue?
GARZA: No. No.
CHUNG: In fact, don't you have a story about how they argue?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: You can tell us.
GARZA: As a matter of fact, I do. We were talking one day, Scott and Laci and myself. And we were talking about arguing. And Scott would say, I'm mad. And Laci would say, I'm mad. And then they would say, let's hug.
And that's how -- it sounds silly, but that's how they solved their arguments. They are an amazing couple. They are an amazing couple.
CHUNG: Stacy, when you heard so much speculation about whether or not Scott in fact might be involved in her disappearance, what did you think?
BOYERS: No one's going to guess what's happened. No one knows what's happened. And I'm not going to try and guess what's happened to Laci. We just pray that she comes home safe and sound.
CHUNG: The question, I think, for so many people who don't know Laci and Scott, do any of you believe that Scott had anything to do with her disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't believe that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Absolutely not.
CHUNG: And can one of you tell me why not? Is it just so out of the realm of possibility? Tell me.
TOMLINSON: I think I heard Sharon on an interview earlier this morning. And she said it perfectly. If you saw -- if you ever have the chance the opportunity -- the privilege, I should say -- to see Scott and Laci together, you would have no question in your mind, because they are the ideal couple.
They enjoy the same things. They enjoy being together. They made time for each other. They're building their home together and working on that, which everyone knows is a day-to-day thing. So, they had so many plans going forward. You just -- you wouldn't even question it, if you had got the opportunity to see them together.
CHUNG: Rene, do you think there was anything unusual about the fact that Scott was going fishing on Christmas Eve all day long?
TOMLINSON: I don't. And I'm glad you asked me, because I actually had the opportunity to see him last winter.
I was up skiing at our local -- Laci had purchased a ski pass for Scott for his birthday. And I was sitting in the lodge. And, all of a sudden, I see Scott walk in. I'm like, what are you doing here? And some friends had seen him out on the slopes. And he's like, oh, I'm just practicing up. I want to get this down before I go in public to show everybody how I snowboard.
And he was actually getting ready to go out of the country for a business trip, I think that night. I'm like, don't you need to be home packing? He goes, oh, I just wanted to come up here for a couple of hours. And I said, oh, where's Laci? She just wanted to stay home. She didn't feel like coming up.
So, it's not out of the normal, ordinary for him. He's just -- the two of them are so together and so on top of things, if they had something planned, they were ready for it. And a trip here, a trip there for a few hours wasn't going to set them back. And that's just an example. And he's an outdoorsman in every aspect, whether it's golf, fishing, hunting, snowboarding now. That's just him.
CHUNG: Well, Lori, if you could say something to Laci right now, what would you say, if she happens, for some reason or another, to be listening?
ELLSWORTH: We're ready for you to come home. It's time. We can't wait to throw your shower for you and have you help us plan it and see that baby boy.
CHUNG: Oh, do you know it's a baby boy?
ELLSWORTH: Yes.
CHUNG: You do? Oh, how exciting. And her due date is what, February 10?
ELLSWORTH: Tenth, right.
CHUNG: How much -- she must have been looking forward to this so much, her first baby.
ELLSWORTH: She was very much looking forward to it. She was so prepared. I think she probably has every book imaginable that you could read on pregnancies and knowing what she can and can't do throughout her pregnancy, going so far as, she wouldn't eat sushi with us one night when we went out for dinner, because it's not the right thing to have. So, yes, she was very prepared.
CHUNG: So, Renee, the other Renee -- I was talking to Rene Tomlinson before, right?
TOMLINSON: Yes.
CHUNG: Renee Garza, is it hard to remain optimistic, because it has been two weeks? And that's really rough to think about that she's been gone for two weeks.
GARZA: Absolutely not. Laci is the strongest girl you will ever meet, personality-plus. It is not hard to be hopeful. We know she's coming home. We know she's coming, because this is what's keeping us going. This is what's keeping everyone going. And she's OK. I know she is.
CHUNG: What's amazing is that, when Scott and Laci moved back to Modesto, what, something like two years ago, all of you got back together and you've been so tight since then. Isn't that true, Stacy?
BOYERS: Yes. Laci was the one that actually brought us all back together for our Christmas parties, our New Year's parties. And for everybody's birthdays, she bakes us a cake specially for us. And she's been the one that brought us all back together.
CHUNG: So, you all must have a terrible empty feeling that you're missing a link in that chain of friendship that you have.
BOYERS: Yes, we do.
CHUNG: All right.
Is there anything else that we can pass along to the public that could be of help, because I know all of you are manning this command center and want to help as much as you can.
TOMLINSON: Just keep coming and volunteering and helping us out. We need help finding Laci.
GARZA: We know she's out there.
TOMLINSON: Yes.
GARZA: And we need someone to help us bring her home. CHUNG: OK.
Stacy, Renee, Lori, and Rene, thank you all so much for being with us. We appreciate it and we'll keep our fingers crossed.
GARZA: Thank you.
TOMLINSON: Thank you.
ELLSWORTH: Thank you.
BOYERS: Thank you.
CHUNG: Police today said they are scaling back their briefings. It will be once every two days now, rather than every day. And the sad fact has been that they've had very little to report.
Joining us once again tonight with what we know is Modesto Police Chief Roy Wasden.
Chief Wasden, I thank you again for being with us. Do you have any late information?
ROY WASDEN, MODESTO POLICE CHIEF: Thank you, Connie.
CHUNG: Do you have any late information tonight?
WASDEN: We are just continuing our searches. We are out in the rural county areas and doing some water searches that are going to on. They were working at Tulloch Reservoir today in a bridged area, based on some expert advice that we received. And so we're continuing, but we don't have a lot of new information at this point.
CHUNG: I know you had nine divers out there right at that bridge area. You said based on an expert's advice. What was it? Was it an expert's tip or was it information that you had?
WASDEN: No. We work with the local experts in that area, trying to follow a logical sequence of what-ifs and based on some information that we would follow through on those. And then, listening to the experienced law enforcement personnel, the county sheriffs up there, that have a lot of experience in the area, we located some areas and decided that it was prudent to search and do so with some divers.
They found that area to be very difficult to search. So we'll continue to work those areas. We are going to use some other equipment in the future.
CHUNG: Chief Wasden, are you scaling back the frequency of your briefings because tips seem to be drying up?
WASDEN: We're up 2,121 tips at this point. We continue to receive calls. We just don't have new information to give to the media. We do want to keep the public's interests on this case. If Laci is alive and well, we need the public to be looking and helping us find her. If Laci is not alive and well, we need the help of the public for any information that will help us find her and get her home.
CHUNG: All right, Chief Wasden, I thank you so much for being with us. And we'll check in with you again.
Still ahead: Another police search, but this time, it's the millionaire heir to the Max Factor fortune. He skipped out on his rape trial. Now the chase is on.
ANNOUNCER: Next: Is a red light the right signal for cops when a suspect flees? Turning the corner on dangerous police chases.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: You know those high-speed police chases that you see on television all the time? Well, in Los Angeles, the LAPD had more of them than any other police department in the country, more than two a day.
And now, as CNN's Charles Feldman reports, the LAPD is shifting gears as other cities also grapple with the problem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You want reality television? Try this on for size. In Fresno, California, a police chase ends up in a gun battle. In the City of Brotherly Love, a police pursuit nearly kills someone when it ends in an ear-splitting crash.
In Nevada, a car being pursued by cops plows into an intersection, demolishing both vehicles. And in Los Angeles, the entertainment capital of the world, with entertainment du jour on TV? You guessed it, cop pursuits, from the granddaddy of all cop pursuits, the low-speed chase of O.J. Simpson's white Bronco, to the high-speed chase in the Hollywood Hills of a drug suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he lost control. Oh, just crashed. He flipped over.
FELDMAN: But now the L.A. Police Commission is giving the red light to police pursuits that start because of minor infractions such as traffic violations.
WILLIAM BRATTON, LAPD CHIEF: The primary pursuit vehicle will be the helicopter. The primary and secondary black-and-white units on the ground will still be authorized to proceed, code three, but they will reduce their speed to maximize public safety.
FELDMAN (on camera): In 2001, the last year figures were available, the LAPD engaged in almost 800 car chases that caused nearly 140 injuries. And more than half of these pursuits started with a minor infraction.
Charles Feldman, CNN, Los Angeles. (END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: LAPD Chief William Bratton joins us now from Los Angeles.
Chief Bratton, thank you for being with us.
BRATTON: It's good to be with you.
CHUNG: Chief, this new policy was instituted in part because a little girl had died recently and a little boy's arm had been severed recently. Now, those two incidents involved suspected felonies. So, if this policy had been in place, it would not have applied to these two accidents. Does something else need to be done?
BRATTON: Well, that's correct. The two incidents you referenced would have not been affected by the policy change that the Police Commission here in Los Angeles voted on today.
What we are in fact saying to our officers is that incidents that involve only a traffic infraction, running a red light or something similar, that, in and of itself, that would not warrant a chase or a pursuit on the part of the officers. They would have to have more to go on, reasonable suspicion or probable cause that the occupants of that vehicle were engaged in a crime, had committed a crime, or were about to commit a crime, more significant than the traffic offense for which they were originally observed and cited.
CHUNG: Isn't it likely, though, sir, that, if someone is fleeing, that person is probably fleeing for a reason and that reason is probably bigger than a traffic infraction? So, some people will say to you, well, this is really allowing criminals to get away.
BRATTON: Not really in the sense, in the overall scheme of things that I'm looking at. We have more chases in Los Angeles than any place in America. Additionally, we make well over 100,000 arrests in the city of Los Angeles each year.
Of at least 700 incidents, we've made several hundred arrests. I don't know that our crime rate would be impacted dramatically by not apprehending some of these individuals and causing a great risk to the public and to our officers that would be a direct result of some of these pursuits.
CHUNG: Going back to the first question, sir, about this little girl who was killed and the little boy who was in an accident because of the fact that there was a police chase -- and it still involved a suspected felony -- are you saying that these things will happen?
BRATTON: Unfortunately, Connie, they will. That's the reality.
We have no way at all of preventing that. So long as people decide they are going to break the law, we, the police, have an obligation, to the best of our ability -- and we try to train our officers to the best of our skill levels and our capabilities. These things, unfortunately, always will happen. We're what we're trying to do, myself and the police commissioner, with this policy is reduce significantly the potential for these types of events happening; 56 percent of the chases in Los Angeles are initiated as a result of a traffic violation. If I can reduce those 139 injuries, if I can reduce those six deaths, then I think that's well worth the implementation of this policy.
CHUNG: Do you think the local media is partly to blame for the problem? Because those chases will be covered every single day.
BRATTON: In Los Angeles, the Los Angeles market, an extraordinarily competitive news market, one of the great concerns I have is, many of the local stations will preempt regular programming or, in a little box on the screen, will follow these chases. Some of these chases run for hours in this city.
And it has evolved into a form of entertainment. There's even a Web site that you pay a subscription fee. And they'll notify you immediately when a chase is on, so you can go to your TV or computer and follow the chase. Additionally, a lot of the film from these chases is then sold to some of the stations that will then put together specials. And you watch these specials, it's like watching a sporting event in terms of the way that they're presented.
I have great concern about that. And I also have great concern that why we have so many chases in this city vs. everywhere else in America, that no city in America has anywhere near proportionately the number of chases we have here.
CHUNG: All right, Chief Bratton, we thank you so much for being with us. And it's good to see you again.
BRATTON: Thank you.
CHUNG: And now a case of alleged brutality that is sending shockwaves across the city of Detroit. It happened Sunday night when a plainclothes police officer approached a woman in her car and asked for her I.D. Why is not yet clear. But that officer handcuffed her and, in doing so, he cut off two of her fingers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONI GULLAS, ALLEGED VICTIM OF POLICE BRUTALITY: It's like something out of a horror movie. He just clocked me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the face?
GULLAS: Right in the face. And then I just looked down and saw my hand full of blood. And before I could think of anything, he was dragging me out of the car and threw me on the ground.
No matter what you touch, it hurts. Then just multiply it by 100, because it just -- it feels like someone just -- the whole time just pulling down. I can feel it right where it's cut off.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHUNG: Prosecutors are deciding whether to charge the officer involved. And on our program tomorrow night, we will ask the Detroit police how this could have happened.
Tonight: efforts to keep the police on a global scale top our look at "The World in: 60."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Sanctions mean war, says North Korea in its nuclear confrontation with the U.S. The threat comes as high-level diplomats from South Korea and Japan resume talks in Washington on how to diffuse the nuclear standoff.
Weapons inspectors take to the sky. For the first time since inspections resumed in Iraq, U.N. weapons inspectors fly by helicopter to a site near Syria's border. Meanwhile, the International Atomic Energy Agency says, so far, it has not found evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.
Allies ready troops for Iraq. President Jacques Chirac of France tells soldiers to prepare for possible action, the clearest suggestion yet of military engagement in Iraq. And Britain is mobilizing thousands of reservists and additional naval forces for deployment to the Persian Gulf.
Terror raids yield deadly poison. In London, six North Africans are being questioned after anti-terror police find traces of ricin, one of the world's deadliest toxins, during residential searches on Sunday.
U.S. trial for Olympic skating suspect: An Italian court orders the extradition of an alleged Russian mobster charged with fixing figure skating results at the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: heavyweight champ, TV pitchman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE FOREMAN, FORMER PROFESSIONAL BOXER: You'll see how it will do steak, hamburgers, chicken breasts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And now self-help author. The hits keep on coming from George Foreman.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: The police hunt is on tonight for a millionaire, heir to a cosmetics fortune. Andrew Luster of the Max Factor family skipped bail this weekend right in the middle of his trial. He's up on 87 charges, including multiple counts of raping women on tape after allegedly drugging them.
CNN's Frank Buckley has the bizarre story of the millionaire fugitive. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In some respects, Andrew Luster is a man who shouldn't have a care in the world. He is healthy and wealthy. He has a trust fund and this beach house and a family name that opens doors. He is a great grandson of this man, the late cosmetics creator Max Factor.
But now Andrew luster, an heir to the Max Factor fortune, is a fugitive, either a victim of foul play or an accident, as his attorney suggests, or fleeing justice, as prosecutors allege, accused of jumping bail and skipping out on his trial. Authorities say he raped three women, after bringing them to his beach bungalow and rendering them unconscious with the so-called date rape drug, GHB.
Perhaps the most compelling evidence: videotapes Luster himself made of explicit acts with women who appear to be unconscious. Luster's attorneys have said the acts were consensual; he was an aspiring porn film director. Luster himself denied the rape allegations in an interview two years ago with "The L.A. Times." "This is ridiculous, overblown and outrageous," he said. Luster's attorney says he is limited in what he can say by a gag order.
QUESTION: Can you say whether or not you've heard from your client?
ROGER DIAMOND, ATTORNEY FOR ANDREW LUSTER: I don't believe that would violate the gag order. And the answer is no.
BUCKLEY: Today, investigators released new photos of Luster, of his dog, also missing, and of the SUV they believe he may have used to get away. They say, if Luster attempts to tap his fortune or get in touch with anyone he knows, it will help them to track him down.
GARY AUER, VENTURA COUNTY DA INVESTIGATOR: If he wants to maintain any connection with his businesses, friends, associates, investments, prior recreation, prior lifestyle, all of those things, if he wants to keep still being Mr. Luster, that just makes the job easy for us.
BUCKLEY (on camera): While authorities search for Luster, the judge in the case has decided to move forward with the trial. Luster's mother, meanwhile -- that's Max Factor's granddaughter -- is said to be devastated by all of this, one family member telling me that: All that matters to us is that he's found alive and we can continue with the process.
Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: "Celebrity Justice" correspondent Pat LaLama has joined us now from Los Angeles.
Good evening, Pat.
PAT LALAMA, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Hi, Connie.
CHUNG: How could he skip out? I mean, here's a guy who's under house arrest and he's got one of those electronic bracelets on. So, how can the police -- he slipped through?
LALAMA: Well, it's a defense attorney's nightmare, if you think about it, because, originally, this guy had a $10 million bail, because the prosecution convinced the judge he was a flight risk. But then it was reduced by an appellate court to $1 million. He made bail. He was placed on house arrest.
People may not know that they are private companies who monitor these so-called ankle bracelets. His was an ankle bracelet that, once he left the premises, it did not track where he went. And he was allowed to leave for 12-hour windows to visit his attorneys. Now, let me tell you, I know you're familiar with Southern California. In 12 hours time, you can get to Mexico in three hours. It would take 18 hours to get to Canada. And that's a lot of room to move.
CHUNG: Pat, his attorney was saying that maybe he was a victim of foul play. And the judge said, that's absurd.
LALAMA: Well, I think the attorney is compelled to try to say something on behalf of his fugitive client. The fact is, if he was kidnapped, then why take the dog? Why take the SUV? Why clean out the drawers, as the district attorney has stated that the evidence shows when they went into the house? Many of his drawers were cleaned out. There was a valuable art collection that was reportedly taken.
It doesn't sound to me like a kidnapper who came in and said, let's take some time and grab all your favorite things, Andrew, and take off. So, that's unlikely, but do I know for sure? No.
CHUNG: Now, Pat, the women who allegedly were raped while they were unconscious, have they been heard from? Have they testified?
LALAMA: Yes. It's really an incredible story, when you think about it, because there are so many issues to look at, whether you're willing to be in this man's house, willing to succumb to his offer of any kind of a drug.
The fact is that this would be in the Ventura and Santa Barbara area, which is considered by many people to be sort of a playground, a Southern California playground, where there's lots of restaurants and bars and partying and certainly the Santa Barbara, the university there. And one of his alleged victims was a 21-year-old student. Another was 16 years old at the time and still in high school.
And so it's hard to say where the line is drawn between them being lured, them being able to decide on their own, whether to go back. But the point is, whether you go back to a person's house or not, willingly or not, the fact is that, if you are succumbing to a drug, you are unconscious, you can't make any sort of consent about having sex. And I think that's what the prosecution's trying to show.
CHUNG: All right, Pat, so, in our last 10 seconds, this trial is continuing. The judge is proceeding without the defendant, correct?
LALAMA: Yes, because the law states that, if in fact he defendant knew that the proceedings were going to, he knows that they're happening, he has -- quote -- "absented" himself from the case, it goes on. And it may not sit well with the jury. Even though the judge does not tell the jury about it, you wonder, how could they not figure it out?
CHUNG: All right, Pat, always good to have you with us. We appreciate it.
LALAMA: Thanks, Connie. Thank you.
CHUNG: All right, Pat LaLama.
Still ahead, we are going to grill George Foreman. Hey, turnabout is fair play, huh?
ANNOUNCER: Next: From paradise to pandemonium, a holiday ends with a family in handcuffs and their dog shot by the cops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA SMOAK, DOG KILLED BY POLICE: Maybe two seconds after he got out there and barked, he went woof, woof. And he just blew his head off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A vacation from hell -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Talk about a vacation you'll never forget.
Why would police stop a family driving home from vacation, handcuff them, and then shoot their dog dead? On New Year's Day, James and Pamela Smoak, with their 17-year-old son Brandon, were returning home from Nashville. Suddenly, police pulled them over and, before the encounter was over, shot their dog. Police cleared them of any wrongdoing, but how could this have happened?
They join me now from Greenville, South Carolina.
Thank you so much for being with us, Pamela and James and Brandon.
Now, James, let's start with you.
All right. That's Brandon.
Brandon, thanks so much for joining us as well, yes. James, we are going to start with you.
It was New Year's Day. The three of you were driving back home after vacation. You stopped to get some gas. And you did something that so many of us do. You left something on the hood of your car. In this case, it happened to be your wallet. You drive off. There's a car behind you that sees this money flying out. And somehow that gets translated into a suspected robbery. You are then stopped by the authorities. And what happens?
JAMES SMOAK, DOG KILLED BY POLICE: I see the blue lights going behind me. So, I immediately pull over. And I reach in my back pocket for my wallet to get my I.D., my driver's license and I realize I don't have it.
So, I'm expecting the officer to come to my window. But a blaring light comes on. And he starts blaring orders over a P.A. system for all the passengers in the car to get their hands in the air. So, we comply. And once I get my hands in the air, he says, with your left hand still in the air, take your right hand and take the keys out of the ignition and throw them out of the window.
CHUNG: So you do all that?
J. SMOAK: We comply completely. Yes, ma'am.
CHUNG: And then?
J. SMOAK: And then they ordered me out of the car.
CHUNG: He ordered you to get on the ground.
J. SMOAK: Yes, ma'am.
And, with my head on the ground, he comes behind me and cuffs me, places me in the rear of his patrol car, and then commits to do the same thing to my wife and child.
CHUNG: All right, let's go to you, Pamela.
Your husband is in the patrol car and you and your son are ordered out and face down on the ground as well. And your son, I know, tries to tell the officer to please close the door of the car so that the dogs don't get out. But the officers don't do that. And then what happens?
P. SMOAK: Actually, we both, for almost a full minute, asked the police officer over and over, several times, to please close the door. And after about a minute of just standing there ignoring us -- and we couldn't figure out why they were just standing there -- I saw Patton, and so did Brandon, come towards the door. And he jumped out the car.
There was an officer standing right at the car door of the car. And he just ran past the officer. He wasn't barking or growling or anything. And he ran out. We were kind of like on a hill, on an incline. And he ran kind of down the hill on the grassy area and kind of did a loop. And out to my right, about 10 or 12 feet from my right, the entire time all this was going on was an officer with a shotgun and a flashlight on top of it.
And he had been facing the car the entire time, the car door. And so when Patton came out, he followed Patton's pattern with his gun aimed at him and with the flashlight on the top of his gun. And so, when Patton ran out on the grass, he did, I don't know, a 10, 20, 30 yard -- it was nighttime, but he did -- running around on the grass to see what was going on and smelled.
And then he saw the flashlight pointed at him and he came back towards the flashlight. And he did bark at the flashlight two times, but that is all he did. He never growled. He never tried to attack him. And the whole time that Patton was running, my son and I were screaming: "Please let us get him. Please. He's not going to do anything. It's just the flashlight. Please let us get him."
And then he just shot him. As soon as he barked twice, he shot him right in the head, with us just screaming at him.
CHUNG: Oh, my gosh. Could you believe it?
P. SMOAK: No, ma'am, I couldn't believe it. No, ma'am.
CHUNG: Brandon, I want to read to you what the officer said in his report. He said: "I yelled at the dog to get back, but it attempted to circle me to attack. So, I felt that I had no option, but to protect myself."
Is there any way that that dog you call General Patton could have been attacking the officer, do you think?
BRANDON HAYDEN, DOG KILLED BY POLICE: No, ma'am.
He was the gentlest dog that I ever been around with. He's like Scooby-Doo. He wasn't mean at all. And I usually play in the yard with him with a flashlight or in the house. And I shine it around the furniture and stuff. And it would -- he would, like, jump at the light. Or I would do it with a laser pointer, too, sometimes. And he was just nearsighted. And it was dark outside. And with a bright light shining in his eye, he was going for the light. He wasn't even barking at the guy, I don't think.
CHUNG: Pamela, after about an hour, you all were released. And I'm wondering, did the police say, we're sorry? Did they apologize? Did they say they made a mistake?
P. SMOAK: The only thing that they said to me -- they came to me first, I believe, in the car. And they opened the door. And he said: "Ma'am, we're going to let you go. There's been a mistake."
And, at that point, I was almost flabbergasted. I just asked him. I said: "A mistake? You've murdered my dog. You've handcuffed my child and myself and my husband and thrown us on the ground, had guns pointed at us. And all you can say is, you've made a mistake?" And I told him that I wanted a list of all of their names. And he said, "I understand." And they never apologized or explained anything or anything.
CHUNG: James, are you planning to take some legal action?
J. SMOAK: Yes, ma'am. We are in the process of retaining an attorney. We have a family friend who is advising us...
CHUNG: All right.
J. SMOAK: ... who is an attorney.
CHUNG: Yes.
I thank you so much for being with us.
I know, Pamela, that you have buried your dog, Brandon's dog. And it must be so hard for you all as a family.
P. SMOAK: Yes, ma'am, it is. I have two younger children who were behind our car in my mother and father-in-law's car. And they came up and passed as all this was going on. And they're pretty upset. Patton was a family member. He was like everybody's younger brother and our youngest child. He wasn't our dog. He was our family.
CHUNG: All right. Well, I thank you, Pamela.
And, James, thank you so much.
And, of course, Brandon as well.
A representative of the Cookeville Police said the department was -- quote -- "really, really sorry that the dog was killed," and added, "The police will have more to say tomorrow." The Tennessee Safety Department told us an internal investigation is under way. The department expects a to release an official statement tomorrow, as well as police video showing what actually happened during the shooting.
And still ahead: a real heavyweight guest, what George Foreman wants you to know about your life.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We're just talking.
George Foreman used to get people to do what he wanted them to do by just punching them. Well, what he wanted them to do was hit the canvas and he got them to do that every so often. And so, in 1994, in the fight against Michael Moorer, he became, at age 45, the oldest heavyweight champion ever and just this October was inducted into the World Boxing Hall of Fame. These days, though, he wants to help people get off the canvas. Punching people doesn't work as well as that. So, he's co-authored a book called "George Foreman's Guide to Life: How to Get Up Off the Canvas When Life Knocks You Down." And he's here to tell us all about that and a lot more -- without punching us, right?
GEORGE FOREMAN, AUTHOR, "GEORGE FOREMAN'S GUIDE TO LIFE": That's true. No punching these days.
CHUNG: I'm so happy. Oh, what a gentle handshake.
FOREMAN: Well, the hands have been beat up so.
CHUNG: Oh, I got you. I hear you.
You know what? I am such a fan.
FOREMAN: Thank you.
CHUNG: Actually, I used to listen on the radio with my father to boxing and then would watch television. And then my husband and I watch it on Saturday nights on HBO, with Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant. It's great.
FOREMAN: Well, your husband is a champ, though.
CHUNG: Aren't you nice?
FOREMAN: He's my champ.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: You are so nice.
But really, big fan of yours. And I'm thinking to myself, what you have done is, you've written this book that really gives us some advice. Have you always wanted to...
FOREMAN: I always wanted to do that.
CHUNG: And it's been many years in the making, huh?
FOREMAN: And you're raising children and you talk to families and friends. And they say, George, dad, I wish you would share that with other friends. Can they come over?
And for years, I thought, maybe I'll just do a book or tapes or something and hand it over to the young people and people my age, of course, because we continue to make mistakes. And a lot of mistakes we don't really need to. We just don't have anyone to give us the proper advice.
CHUNG: So, if you could take one lesson from the book that you want to pass along to our viewers, what would that be?
FOREMAN: Oh, the importance of true friendship, to know exactly what a friendship really means. And, in my business, boxers will get promoters and managers. And they come into your life and they overwhelm you: I love you. They call you son and daughters. And then, in the end, they're not really true friends. And when it's time to fall, they're not there and you fall harder. So, you can teach young people how to really, truly be a good friend. And that lesson is in that book, what is really friendship.
CHUNG: So, how do you find out whether or not someone you believe is your friend is a true friend?
FOREMAN: Well, I just think you should go out and make certain that you are a true friend.
CHUNG: Oh, I see. It's reciprocal.
FOREMAN: It doesn't matter too much about what other people -- it's you. If you call someone your friend, you be there. If something is in the newspaper bad about them, you don't hide like the ostrich, your head under there. You just be there forever and you dedicate your life. Like my grandmother, my friend is just as important.
CHUNG: All right. So, I can't spend time with you without asking about your children. How many are there? There are...
FOREMAN: Ten!
CHUNG: Yes.
FOREMAN: Five daughters, five sons, all named George Edward Foreman.
CHUNG: I do know that. But you know what? I never knew the reason why they're named George. And you've got to tell us that.
FOREMAN: I tell people all the time.
CHUNG: I know. But I don't remember that.
FOREMAN: If you're going to be a good boxer, you better make preparations for memory loss, because they're going to hit you. When I was a young boy...
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: I don't have that excuse, you know? But go ahead.
FOREMAN: My mom -- there were seven of us. And when she wanted me, of course, she called me every name of all of the kids. And by the time she got to my name, I was out the door. And I said, I'll never make that mistake. I named them all George.
And then, I thought had some roots there that weren't. So, I just made some. I gave those kids something they'd always have in common, a name. And a name is what you make of it, you see.
CHUNG: Your roots, meaning your biological... FOREMAN: Yes.
I found out late in life, as a young man, my father, J.D. Foreman, who really loved me so much -- but I found out later he was not my biological part. And later on, I found I didn't even need that information. He loved me so much. But the roots I thought were there weren't. So I planted something. And you just plant something. He just gave me that name, George Foreman, so I made use of it.
CHUNG: And you passed it along to all your sons.
Now, you have a birthday coming up, don't you?
FOREMAN: Yes. January 10, I'll be 40...
CHUNG: No, no. You're going to be 50-something.
FOREMAN: Thirty...
CHUNG: No.
(LAUGHTER)
FOREMAN: I'll be 54.
CHUNG: All right.
FOREMAN: And I'm happy about that, because I tell everyone I'd like to have a fight at 55, back in the boxing ring at 55. So I got to start making preparations.
CHUNG: Yes? You going to do it?
FOREMAN: Well, I'm married. If my wife will allow me.
CHUNG: She's not going to let you do that.
FOREMAN: There comes a time that you're more afraid of what your wife is going to do to you if you box than what the fighters are going to do to you if you get in the ring. That's when you got to worry.
CHUNG: There you go.
But I understand that you are going to be spending your birthday with a lot of women. And you just said you're married. You got a bossy wife, right?
FOREMAN: I have five daughters, really. But over the years, I've adopted maybe 12 or 13 more. And they're all going to meet with me. And that will be my birthday gift. And I give them gifts.
When my mother was alive, I'd always give her flowers and gifts on my birthday. Now she's passed on. So I've got my daughters. And they're so tremendous. And it's very important that you make the girls realize how important they are.
CHUNG: Sure. Absolutely.
You know what? I do want to ask you one question about when you were in the ring. What was the worst knockdown for you?
FOREMAN: I was hit hard, of course, by Ron Lyle way back in the '70s. He hit me so hard, it didn't even hurt. I just looked and it was like a piece of rag on the floor. I felt like that. And I got up and he knocked me down again. It hurt.
And then, of course, being devastated by Muhammad Ali in Africa. It didn't hurt me, but I could hear him screaming, "I am the greatest." That hurt.
(LAUGHTER)
FOREMAN: "I told you not to doubt me," that kind of stuff.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Oh, George, I love you and I'm so glad you could come by.
FOREMAN: Thank you.
CHUNG: And we'll get your book.
FOREMAN: Thank you so much.
CHUNG: We'll tell everybody to go buy it, right?
FOREMAN: Appreciate it.
CHUNG: All right, George, thank you. Will you come back some time?
FOREMAN: Tell your husband I love him, too.
CHUNG: Oh, that's so nice, and my husband's father as well.
FOREMAN: Oh, yes.
CHUNG: Who covered you for years.
(CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN: He's been around for years. He's a wonderful guy. You got a great family.
CHUNG: Oh, yes, absolutely.
FOREMAN: You've got to write a book about that.
CHUNG: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Thank you, George. Speaking of heavyweight contenders, some big musical matchups have been set, as we see in tonight's "Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): The Grammy nominations are out. Hits by Vanessa Carlton, Eminem, Norah Jones, Nelly, and Nickelback are in the running for record of the year, one of 104 categories. The awards presentation is February 23.
The feds are reportedly turning up the heat on Martha Stewart again. CNN has confirmed prosecutors are reinterviewing witnesses and making up their minds whether to charge the lifestyle maven with insider trading.
If you're young and fat, you may be eating your way to an early grave. New research finds the younger you are when you become obese, the more years you stand to take off your life.
A police officer in Salt Lake City, Utah, says he's received a reprimand for having two American flag decals on his patrol car. Apparently, a superior thought the stickers might offend some people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: It was 30 years ago this month that the very first record album came out from our "Person of the Day." Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band's "Greetings From Asbury Park, New Jersey" got ignored by the Grammys in 1973. This year, Springsteen was one of the top nominees, along with newcomers Norah Jones and Avril Lavigne.
After 30 years as a recording artist, Springsteen already has seven Grammys. This year, he's up for five more, taking on the young bloods for album of the year, best rock album, best male rock vocals, best rock song, and song of the year for "The Rising." His album was partially inspired by America's response to the attacks of September 11.
So, it's not just for making music that talks to the pain we've all felt. It's not just for the Grammy nominations. It's also for showing that even folks over 50 can still rock. Yes. For all those reasons, Bruce Springsteen is our "Person of the Day." The Grammys are awarded on February 23. And at the risk of sacrificing a little objectivity, we hope that Springsteen kicks a little you know what.
Tomorrow: He was supposed to verify claims of the first human clone, so why has Michael Guillen made headlines by proclaiming it may be a hoax? For the first time since the cloning claims fell apart, Michael Guillen tells us what went on behind the scenes.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": the duchess of York, Sarah Ferguson.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
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