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American Morning

Behind-the-Scenes Look at Bush White House

Aired January 08, 2003 - 08:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now a behind-the-scenes look at the Bush White House from one of the president's former speechwriters.
David Frum helped write some of his most important addresses and was the man behind one memorable presidential phrase.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Now David Frum has written about his year in the White House in a new book called "The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush."

And David Frum joins us now.

Good to see you.

DAVID FRUM, AUTHOR, "THE RIGHT MAN": Thank you.

ZAHN: Welcome.

FRUM: Thank you.

ZAHN: Now, we should make it clear that your original line was axis of hatred.

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Which other advisers turned and made a little stronger into axis of evil.

FRUM: Right, which I think was a big improvement.

ZAHN: You do?

FRUM: I do. I thought it was...

ZAHN: Even though that language has been so widely criticized, particularly by certain members of the U.N. Security Council?

FRUM: Yes, but it's been criticized by the evil members of the U.N. Security Council. No, I think it was exactly right. And it also gives you a great insight into the way this president's mind works and the reasons for his success. This is a president who exercises moral leadership. He thinks in moral terms. You know, we're used to ideological leaders like Ronald Reagan and pragmatic leaders like Bill Clinton. But a leader who thinks in moral categories, this is really a new thing. America hasn't had one of those for a while. And it is, I think, the secret of why he was able to respond so effectively to this great moral crisis in America.

ZAHN: This is a man who has talked very openly about his faith and how fundamentally important it is for him to start off every day by reading from the bibles.

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: And you said that there are certain selections in the psalms...

FRUM: That's right.

ZAHN: ... that should give us a sort of a barometer of why he uses words like evil and evil doer.

FRUM: Yes. Well, the president's favorite psalm is Psalm 27, which is a desolating psalm about isolation and feelings of loneliness and feelings of remorse and repentance and speaking to a god from whom you feel very distant, saying please don't cut me off, do not lose me. And in that psalm, the psalm talks about being surrounded by evildoers. And I think that is a word that has lodged in the president's mind and when he came -- he was looking for language to describe how, what do I say about these gangsters, these criminals who surprise attacked America, that was the word that naturally came to him. And that's the kind of language that comes to him.

ZAHN: How much contact did you have with him on a daily basis?

FRUM: George Bush takes words more seriously than most of his predecessors have done. And so in a -- historically, speechwriters don't see their boss that much. He gave us unprecedented -- I don't think back, I think you'd have to go back, all the way back to the Roosevelt days to find a president who spoke as often to his speechwriters as he would. You would hear from him about everything you did for him, either by phone or he would call you in, often for a chewing out.

He was very demanding. He would pretty regularly, every couple of weeks, three weeks, bring the writers in for sort of a free ranging thought session. He'd sit in a chair for about an hour or 90 minutes and just tell you, you can't write for me if you don't know what I'm thinking about. Let me tell you what's on my mind. And off we'd go.

ZAHN: What is it that the average viewer out there might be most surprised by about what you learned about George Bush?

FRUM: I think the most surprising thing was his immediate air of command. Now, remember, I had not worked on his campaign. I had never met him before I went to work for him at the end of January, 2001. My first meeting with him was about 10 days after that. You get through the paperwork and I went to the Oval Office with a group of other writers and other people and I'd read all these stories about how Cheney's really in charge, Rove is really in charge and there's this guy who's sort of uncertain and unsure.

And instead there was this guy who was absolutely in command. And the people around him were all kind of nervous about him. He, you know, he's just this dominant figure. And that, for me, it was a shock.

ZAHN: Yet at the same time in the book, you describe him as "often uncurious and as a result ill-informed."

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Ill-informed about what?

FRUM: Well, look, nobody is perfect and Bush, at the same time as he has his great virtues, he also has his faults. His great virtue is he is somebody who thinks in moral categories. And as a result he is not somebody, he is not a policy wonk. He is not somebody who says my job here is to be the in-house expert on every aspect of my policy.

His view would be I have people for that.

ZAHN: And you also say he's not as political...

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Or he doesn't make the political calculations that most folks would suspect he would automatically make.

FRUM: This was often, to me, very surprising. And I think he suffered from this and he benefited from it, too. I mean politicians think in a certain way. They think I'/m going to talk about the South, but you can't say the South. You have to say the South and the North. I want to refer to men, men and women. You always make sure when you speak to always include everybody.

Bush's mind didn't work that way. And he often, he would sometimes cause small offenses by his lack of political tact and yet at the same time it was the reason that, his lack of political tact meant that the essential honesty of his character never got blurred in the way that the honesty of many politicians' characters often does.

ZAHN: In spite of the fact that you've said some quite positive things about the president, you also beat up his administration a little bit, saying that you were I guess...

FRUM: Beat up may be a little hard.

ZAHN: What would you say? Maybe it's too strong of a word, but you didn't find them as intellectual as you had hoped, that you didn't hear an unexpected idea coming from his cabinet.

FRUM: Yes. This is a president, this president recruited his White House for character, that he wanted people who were honorable, who are devoted, who are loyal to him. And the plus side of that was there were a lot of dubious in some other White Houses. And we had none of those. You went around, everybody here was a good citizen.

But other White Houses also had some pretty unusual, extraordinary people and there are some exceptions, and the general level of intelligence was high and there was Karl Rove, who is a one man genius. That title boy genius that's applied to him is not sarcastic. He really is. But on the whole it was a steady White House rather than a White House with highs and lows.

ZAHN: How bad is the president's temper? You said he/'d come and chew you out every now and then if you didn't write what he wanted to read?

FRUM: Well, the scariest thing, actually, was not the chewing out. The scariest thing was this look he'd give you. And I was the recipient of it once or twice. He would give you this look as if to say are you the stupidest person I'm going to hear from today, or just one of the top five? And that could freeze your bones.

ZAHN: Well, there have been curious reports about how mad the White House is about this book. You say they are exaggerated.

FRUM: I think two things. First, the White House knew many of the contents of the book well in advance and I think they have, they understand, they have no reason to be mad about this book. That, look, it's a candid account. It's not the paper mache version of the president. It is a story of a real man. But it's a supportive account.

My experience was the better I got to know George Bush, the more I liked him. And I have to think that people who read "The Right Man" are going to have the same experience, they're going to learn more and they'll like him better.

ZAHN: David Frum, thanks so much for sharing some of those thoughts with us this morning.

FRUM: Thank you.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 8, 2003 - 08:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now a behind-the-scenes look at the Bush White House from one of the president's former speechwriters.
David Frum helped write some of his most important addresses and was the man behind one memorable presidential phrase.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Now David Frum has written about his year in the White House in a new book called "The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush."

And David Frum joins us now.

Good to see you.

DAVID FRUM, AUTHOR, "THE RIGHT MAN": Thank you.

ZAHN: Welcome.

FRUM: Thank you.

ZAHN: Now, we should make it clear that your original line was axis of hatred.

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Which other advisers turned and made a little stronger into axis of evil.

FRUM: Right, which I think was a big improvement.

ZAHN: You do?

FRUM: I do. I thought it was...

ZAHN: Even though that language has been so widely criticized, particularly by certain members of the U.N. Security Council?

FRUM: Yes, but it's been criticized by the evil members of the U.N. Security Council. No, I think it was exactly right. And it also gives you a great insight into the way this president's mind works and the reasons for his success. This is a president who exercises moral leadership. He thinks in moral terms. You know, we're used to ideological leaders like Ronald Reagan and pragmatic leaders like Bill Clinton. But a leader who thinks in moral categories, this is really a new thing. America hasn't had one of those for a while. And it is, I think, the secret of why he was able to respond so effectively to this great moral crisis in America.

ZAHN: This is a man who has talked very openly about his faith and how fundamentally important it is for him to start off every day by reading from the bibles.

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: And you said that there are certain selections in the psalms...

FRUM: That's right.

ZAHN: ... that should give us a sort of a barometer of why he uses words like evil and evil doer.

FRUM: Yes. Well, the president's favorite psalm is Psalm 27, which is a desolating psalm about isolation and feelings of loneliness and feelings of remorse and repentance and speaking to a god from whom you feel very distant, saying please don't cut me off, do not lose me. And in that psalm, the psalm talks about being surrounded by evildoers. And I think that is a word that has lodged in the president's mind and when he came -- he was looking for language to describe how, what do I say about these gangsters, these criminals who surprise attacked America, that was the word that naturally came to him. And that's the kind of language that comes to him.

ZAHN: How much contact did you have with him on a daily basis?

FRUM: George Bush takes words more seriously than most of his predecessors have done. And so in a -- historically, speechwriters don't see their boss that much. He gave us unprecedented -- I don't think back, I think you'd have to go back, all the way back to the Roosevelt days to find a president who spoke as often to his speechwriters as he would. You would hear from him about everything you did for him, either by phone or he would call you in, often for a chewing out.

He was very demanding. He would pretty regularly, every couple of weeks, three weeks, bring the writers in for sort of a free ranging thought session. He'd sit in a chair for about an hour or 90 minutes and just tell you, you can't write for me if you don't know what I'm thinking about. Let me tell you what's on my mind. And off we'd go.

ZAHN: What is it that the average viewer out there might be most surprised by about what you learned about George Bush?

FRUM: I think the most surprising thing was his immediate air of command. Now, remember, I had not worked on his campaign. I had never met him before I went to work for him at the end of January, 2001. My first meeting with him was about 10 days after that. You get through the paperwork and I went to the Oval Office with a group of other writers and other people and I'd read all these stories about how Cheney's really in charge, Rove is really in charge and there's this guy who's sort of uncertain and unsure.

And instead there was this guy who was absolutely in command. And the people around him were all kind of nervous about him. He, you know, he's just this dominant figure. And that, for me, it was a shock.

ZAHN: Yet at the same time in the book, you describe him as "often uncurious and as a result ill-informed."

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Ill-informed about what?

FRUM: Well, look, nobody is perfect and Bush, at the same time as he has his great virtues, he also has his faults. His great virtue is he is somebody who thinks in moral categories. And as a result he is not somebody, he is not a policy wonk. He is not somebody who says my job here is to be the in-house expert on every aspect of my policy.

His view would be I have people for that.

ZAHN: And you also say he's not as political...

FRUM: Yes.

ZAHN: Or he doesn't make the political calculations that most folks would suspect he would automatically make.

FRUM: This was often, to me, very surprising. And I think he suffered from this and he benefited from it, too. I mean politicians think in a certain way. They think I'/m going to talk about the South, but you can't say the South. You have to say the South and the North. I want to refer to men, men and women. You always make sure when you speak to always include everybody.

Bush's mind didn't work that way. And he often, he would sometimes cause small offenses by his lack of political tact and yet at the same time it was the reason that, his lack of political tact meant that the essential honesty of his character never got blurred in the way that the honesty of many politicians' characters often does.

ZAHN: In spite of the fact that you've said some quite positive things about the president, you also beat up his administration a little bit, saying that you were I guess...

FRUM: Beat up may be a little hard.

ZAHN: What would you say? Maybe it's too strong of a word, but you didn't find them as intellectual as you had hoped, that you didn't hear an unexpected idea coming from his cabinet.

FRUM: Yes. This is a president, this president recruited his White House for character, that he wanted people who were honorable, who are devoted, who are loyal to him. And the plus side of that was there were a lot of dubious in some other White Houses. And we had none of those. You went around, everybody here was a good citizen.

But other White Houses also had some pretty unusual, extraordinary people and there are some exceptions, and the general level of intelligence was high and there was Karl Rove, who is a one man genius. That title boy genius that's applied to him is not sarcastic. He really is. But on the whole it was a steady White House rather than a White House with highs and lows.

ZAHN: How bad is the president's temper? You said he/'d come and chew you out every now and then if you didn't write what he wanted to read?

FRUM: Well, the scariest thing, actually, was not the chewing out. The scariest thing was this look he'd give you. And I was the recipient of it once or twice. He would give you this look as if to say are you the stupidest person I'm going to hear from today, or just one of the top five? And that could freeze your bones.

ZAHN: Well, there have been curious reports about how mad the White House is about this book. You say they are exaggerated.

FRUM: I think two things. First, the White House knew many of the contents of the book well in advance and I think they have, they understand, they have no reason to be mad about this book. That, look, it's a candid account. It's not the paper mache version of the president. It is a story of a real man. But it's a supportive account.

My experience was the better I got to know George Bush, the more I liked him. And I have to think that people who read "The Right Man" are going to have the same experience, they're going to learn more and they'll like him better.

ZAHN: David Frum, thanks so much for sharing some of those thoughts with us this morning.

FRUM: Thank you.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com