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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Is Bush Administration Easing Up on North Korea?

Aired January 13, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's Monday, January 13, 2003. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Is the Bush administration easing up just a bit on North Korea? Is there a way out of the current standoff?
Let's go immediately to our White House correspondent Dana Bash. She's standing by with the latest -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, the Bush administration did go a step further in trying to get talks started with North Korea to try to find a diplomatic solution to what's going on there.

Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly who is in Seoul, South Korea for talks with officials there did say earlier today that there would be opportunities for North Korea if the United States -- if it would prove to the United States that they would stop its nuclear program. Those opportunities would be in the form of perhaps some energy assistance.

Now, here at the White House, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer clarified what the secretary was saying, repeated statements saying that the only reason, the only way the U.S. would negotiate in any kind of aid like that would be if North Korea first stopped its nuclear program in a verifiable way.

Fleischer also denied any accusations that there is any inconsistency here in the policy. Here at the White House over the past few weeks they have been saying that they will not give into blackmail or offer inducement to North Korea in order to stop its weapons program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, CNN WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: There is a perfect consistency here. Mr. Kelly said that once we get beyond their nuclear weapons then there may be opportunities in the area of energy. But as I made clear before, I said the United States is willing to talk, not negotiate. We are willing to talk about North Korea dismantling its facilities and coming back into international compliance with their obligations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: But, Wolf, Fleischer also noted that the ball is still in North Korea's court, that there has been no response to any of these offers from the United States for any kind of talks -- Wolf. BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House. Dana, thanks very much.

The Bush administration insists it wants to resolve the crisis with North Korea diplomatically, but what happens if diplomacy fails? Is there a military option?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): During a similar nuclear standoff with North Korea in 1994, then President Bill Clinton ordered the Pentagon to consider a preemptive military strike. Samuel Berger was then Deputy National Security Adviser.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We were reinforcing our troop presence in South Korea and had other military options on the table.

BLITZER: Of immediate concern were the 8,000 spent fuel rods the North Koreans had at their nuclear reactor, enough plutonium to make five or six bombs.

DANIEL PONEMAN, FORMER NSC OFFICIAL: As a strong view, that would be an intolerable step. We'd have to stop it.

BLITZER: But a preemptive air strike against the nuclear reactor was averted after North Korea agreed to stop its nuclear bomb program in exchange for economic assistance.

President Bush has repeatedly insisted in recent days he wants the current standoff resolved diplomatically. At the same time, Pentagon planners, as they always do, consider various military options.

All of those options are ugly because the North Koreans have a million man army only miles away from South Korea and its capital Seoul. The U.S. has 37,000 troops along the demilitarized zone just yards away from North Korea's front line forces.

The North Koreans also have enormous stockpiles of artillery and ballistic missiles capable of reaching not only South Korea and Japan but perhaps even Alaska.

And, the U.S. intelligence community believes the North Koreans already possess one or two nuclear bombs. So, what kind of scenario might unfold?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): It's the ugliest of ugly with a lot of bad things happening to the capital, the people of South Korea, U.S. troops there, and of course the outcome is not in doubt but it would be ugly getting there.

BLITZER: Ashton Carter was assistant secretary of defense during the 1994 crisis with North Korea.

ASHTON CARTER, FMR. ASST. DEFENSE SECY.: We would destroy their armed forces and ultimately destroy their regime. All that we're very confident of. However, in the course of that combat, which takes place in the suburbs of Seoul, not in the desert, the Arabian Desert, many, many people are killed, North Koreans, South Koreans, Americans, combatants and non-combatants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: There's little doubt, therefore, that a war with North Korea would be catastrophic.

Joining me now for some additional insight is William Taylor. He's a national security expert, a former infantry officer. He visited North Korea on several occasions, even met at length with that country's former leader Kim Il Song.

Colonel Taylor thanks so much for joining us. How bad would it be if it came down, God forbid, to an actual war between the United States and North Korea?

COL. WILLIAM TAYLOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: First, I don't think North Korea is going to attack South, because I briefed their leadership about the lessons they should have learned from the Gulf War, Kosovo, et cetera, and Afghanistan.

They're not going to launch a suicidal attack. I don't think that we will use a military option by planning. I worry about war by accident or miscalculation at times of high tension.

BLITZER: What does that mean war by miscalculation? How could that possibly happen, a catastrophic development like that?

TAYLOR: Something happens at the DMZ, commanders get the wrong word, firing starts across the DMZ, leaders escalate their decisions, and it happens.

You're interested in how it plays out. Here's how it plays out. We win and we, the U.S. and the South Korean combined forces command, in two months or less of high intensity conflict we obliterate North Korea.

We have 24-hour surveillance. If it moves on the battlefield we can see it. If it communicates on the battlefield, we can hear it. And, if we can see and hear it we can kill it with air power to begin with.

But in the process, the North Koreans had two-thirds of their 1.2 million man force up close to the DMZ within range of Seoul, ten million people Seoul's capital, thousands of Americans there by the way, not just soldiers. We got about 45,000 Americans in South Korea.

They launch their artillery, long range, 170 mm artillery, chemical and biological warheads, no debate on that. Everybody knows that. Long range mortars, they have more than 500 Soviet type Scud missiles that can hit all of Seoul and further south.

And if there were a war and we had support from our Japanese ally, at least logistical basing support, the North Koreans have No- Dong 1 missile. It wipes out one-third of Japan, chemical/bio...

BLITZER: So basically what you're saying is that the military option really is not credible given the devastating price the U.S. and its allies would face.

TAYLOR: The classic term, Wolf, is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) victory. We win and we lose in the process.

BLITZER: And so, when people say they're reviewing military options, it sounds as if the North Koreans certainly have a strong hand in this standoff.

TAYLOR: Exactly, they do. And back to another point, you had some great people, Kissinger and Cohen and Sandy Berger on your program on Sunday. Everybody says talk. More say negotiate, Republicans leaders in the Senate, Democrat leaders in the Senate. We want to avoid the kind of war we just talked about.

BLITZER: Colonel Bill Taylor, ominous words but thanks for your incite. Hopefully it will never happen, appreciate it very much.

Let's turn now to the crisis with Iraq. As U.N. inspectors search technical colleges in Baghdad, the International Atomic Energy Agency today said the hunt for weapons could take perhaps a year.

And a spokesman added this, "It's worth the wait." The spokesman said the longer the inspectors are on the scene, the more likely they are to find something.

The British Prime Minister Tony Blair said today the world must wait to see what the inspectors find. A staunch supporter, of course, of President Bush's tough stance, Mr. Blair said he won't send British troops to war unless he thinks it's absolutely necessary, but he vowed that if Saddam Hussein does not give up his weapons, "He will be disarmed by force."

Pope John Paul II today made clear where he stands. In a strongly worded address, the pontiff explained no to war adding, "War is not always inevitable and it always a defeat for humanity."

Speaking at the Vatican, the pope noted that the Iraqi people have already suffered through more than 12 years of sanctions. He said military force should only be used, "As the very last option."

And Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah says in his view, "There will be no war." He says the Saudis have proposed an initiative to head off a conflict and are asking other Arab nations to agree to the plan. The comments followed unconfirmed reports that Arab states have urged the Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to step down and seek asylum in the region. Crown Prince Abdullah not offering additional details of his initiative.

A group of peace activists, most from the United States, are now in Baghdad trying to convince Saddam Hussein's government to avoid war. In the group, Bianca Jagger, earlier I spoke with her and Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Bianca, thanks once again for joining us. There are people out there, including Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard" who believe you're simply allowing yourself to be used by Saddam Hussein for propaganda purposes against the United States. What do you say?

BIANCA JAGGER, HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, first of all my message is that I am asking from the Iraqi government to comply with U.N. resolutions. And, what I am saying, which I think is perfectly reasonable, is that we have to keep in mind that those who will suffer the most are the civilian population, women and children.

And the other thing that I'm saying are my three points is that why do we have a different standard for North Korea and for Iraq? If we are prepared to have a solution for North Korea through negotiations and through diplomacy, why don't we have that with Iraq?

BLITZER: Stephen, why is Bianca wrong?

STEPHEN HAYES, "WEEKLY STANDARD": Well, the problem with Bianca is that she is over in Baghdad right now, and as we know from previous trips, whether it's Democratic Congressmen Jim McDermott and David Bonior, whether it's Sean Penn, those people who have traveled to Baghdad have been used repeatedly as propaganda tools.

And then they come back to the United States and they say well I had no idea that this brutal dictator, who has murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people was going to use me as a propaganda tool.

Now, she's standing there in Baghdad. She should understand clearly you will be used as a propaganda tool so you should know that while you're standing there.

BLITZER: All right, what about that, Bianca?

JAGGER: OK, Stephen, I have been in very difficult places from Nicaragua all the way down to the former Yugoslavia on situations like this. I'm a human right advocate. I am here advocating for improvements on the human rights situation.

I am here to advocate that the Iraqi government allow a delegation from Amnesty International and other human rights organizations. There is no way that they can manipulate me. I haven't even spoken to the Iraqi media.

HAYES: The Iraqi government is responsible for killing several hundred thousand of the same innocent civilians you claim you're there to speak on their behalf. They have killed several hundred thousand of those innocent civilians.

You should know that you're going to be used, probably today in "Iraq Daily" the daily newspaper that Saddam puts out. They'll have a report saying that you say that Iraq is clear of weapons of mass destruction.

JAGGER: I have never said that. I could not say that. I am not an arms inspector.

HAYES: Of course you haven't but they're going to say that you said it.

JAGGER: No. Stephen forgive me for taking a different position than you. I have not said it. I'm saying in all international media that is not my message. I am sure that they will not be making that mistake. I do not think that they say that about Sean Penn, and I think that my argument is valid. I am concerned about the civilian population.

HAYES: Look, Sean Penn was here on CNN on Saturday night. Sean Penn was here on CNN on Saturday night and he said look I had no idea they were going to use me as a propaganda tool. It's exactly what happened to Sean Penn and exactly what happened to the Baghdad Democrats while they were in Iraq, and it's exactly what will happen to you.

JAGGER: Stephen, I saw Sean Penn just before I took off. I watched him on Larry King. I thought that he was very reasonable, that he made his point, and that we could not really attack him for what he's saying.

I mean it is important for us that we put a human face on the people of Iraq. It has nothing to do with Saddam Hussein. It has nothing to do with his government. It has to do for my concern as a human rights advocate for the consequences for the civilian population (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HAYES: If you were truly concerned as a human rights advocate, it would have a lot to do with Saddam Hussein and it would have a lot to do with the 200,000 people that he's already slaughtered in his own country.

JAGGER: Stephen, we can resolve those problems not always with a war. Another question that I have is why do we have a different foreign policy when it comes to North Korea and when it comes to Iraq?

What signals and what message are we sending to the rest of the world that will not be productive for Americans who will be traveling throughout the world and will continue to increase the dislike against America. We have to have a better foreign policy. We can not resolve all problems with war.

HAYES: Nobody is suggesting that we can resolve al problems with war, and I would be happy to have that debate with you back on United States soil where you're not giving aid and comfort to a dictator who's murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people. It's really disgraceful.

BLITZER: But Stephen, let me interrupt. Let me interrupt. She makes a good point. Why is there one standard, one policy towards North Korea which is a dictatorship that has oppressed its own people, and a different policy towards Iraq?

HAYES: Well, I think that's a good question. There are some of us who wish that we had the same policy. For instance, I don't think the Bush administration should have taken a military confrontation off the table with regard to North Korea.

Having said that Saddam Hussein is a unique dictator in that he's murdered several hundreds of thousands of his own people. Every time he's had an opportunity to be aggressive, he has been, whether it's invading Iran, whether it's invading Kuwait, whether it's launching an assassination attempt on President Bush. He's a unique dictator in that respect.

BLITZER: All right, Bianca, I'll give you the last word because we're running out of time.

JAGGER: Yes, sure.

BLITZER: But on the main point that you will make to Iraqi leaders, Iraqi officials with whom you and your delegation will be meeting in the coming days, what is going to be your message to those Iraqis?

JAGGER: My message will be to strongly recommend to comply with U.N. resolutions, that I as someone who opposes the policy of President Bush believe that he intends and he has made the decision to attack Iraq, that therefore they had to comply if they want to avoid it and if they want to have the international community supporting or opposing a war.

The other thing that I would like to say is that we should look back at the Cuban Missile Crisis and see the way President Kennedy handled it. Why was he able to find a non-military solution at a time when the United States was really threatened by nuclear weapons? Why can't President Bush do the same?

BLITZER: All right, Bianca Jagger on a windy night in Baghdad, thanks once again for joining us. And, Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard," thanks to you as well.

HAYES: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Shifting now to some very surprising news here at CNN. The Chairman Walter Isaacson today announced he's leaving at the end of the spring to become head of the Aspen Institute.

Walter Isaacson is joining me now live from Atlanta at the CNN Center. Walter, I was stunned when I heard the news. I'm sure a lot of our viewers were totally surprised as well. What happened?

WALTER ISAACSON, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, CNN NEWS GROUP: Well, I called you, Wolf, so you wouldn't be so stunned. What happened was the Aspen Institute is something I've always dreamed of doing, a wonderful program involving leadership, ideas, people, and the timing wasn't absolutely perfect but I convinced them to wait until this summer, and it's something I really wanted to do. I think we've got CNN on the right track. It is a newsy, hard, real reported network. It's the most credible and reliable network by far, and it's doing very well with great signature shows, including this new one that I'm on right now by you.

BLITZER: All right, well let's get to some of the specific speculation that I'm sure is already out there. In fact, the wire services are already reporting a lot of speculation.

The merger between CNN and ABC News that's been mooted, does that have anything at all to do with your decision?

ISAACSON: No, no, no. It was totally, I didn't even think about it when I was thinking about this. It happened I was up in New York in December for the annual dinner of the Aspen Institute featuring Don Whitehead and Jimmy Carter and others, and it so happened that our colleague Judy Woodruff was doing the emcee that night.

So, we went to this big black tie dinner, and while I was there, while I was leaving some people came up to me and started asking me about doing this and I said the timing is not exactly right but it's something I really want to do with my life.

And, over the next few weeks I talked to Jamie Kellner who runs Turner Broadcasting, and he tried to talk me into saying and said at least stay through the summer. We've got the war coming up with Iraq potentially. We have other things.

I said sure. I'll wait. I'll do it sometime this summer or end of the spring. But I didn't want to let this opportunity pass. As you know, Wolf, I really love writing. I really love ideas. It's the type of life I really want for the second phase of my career.

BLITZER: I know you've been working over these past several years on a biography of Benjamin Franklin. I assume you'll get that done in the not too distant future now.

ISAACSON: I darned well better, but this is what Ben Franklin did in his life. He was a journalist. He was a reporter. He had his own newspaper and other things.

And then, at a certain time in his life, about the age I am now, he decided to move and he formed the American Philosophical Society, something called the Junto (ph). He got very involved in policy and government and ideas and decided to have a second phase.

So, maybe by studying Benjamin Franklin I realized we all need to do that with our lives, and this is the type of thing I've been thinking about for four or five years is what I'd do with the second part of my career.

BLITZER: Walter, you've been a journalists' journalist for so many years, but television was relatively new for you when you came over from "TIME" magazine. What was the biggest surprise that you learned about TV journalism over this time that you've been at CNN? ISAACSON: Yes, that's a good question. You know for 24 years I've been at this company and I've been a journalist. I do think I have a real feel for writing. I love that.

I had to learn the tricks of the video trade. I do feel that the basic principles of journalism are all the same, you know, to be credible, to try to focus on what's really news and I think we did that over the past two years at CNN. We moved away from things that were too frivolous and have gotten into being a real reported network.

So, I enjoyed the journalism of it but I'm not going to be disingenuous here. I don't think being a TV executive for the rest of my life I really have the absolute feel for television.

BLITZER: What happens to CNN now? Talk about the succession, the successor or successors to Walter Isaacson.

ISAACSON: What we did, as you know Wolf, when I came it took me about a year to put in place a team that I felt was just right. Jim Walter has been the chief operating officer and the number two really running the day-to-day business of all our 15 or 16 networks.

Taya Ryan (ph) came in and she's got this great feel for television. I mean she really knows how to produce shows. She's the one who moved with me the network from being these rolling newscasts to being signature shows, starting the day with Paula Zahn, going through your show, and ending with the Aaron Brown show at night.

And then, Eason Jordan has been the top news gathering executive, the top journalist here. He's the best journalist in the TV business. So, no, the team is going to stay in place.

Jim Walton moves up to be the number one person. Taya continues to run CNN/U.S., and Eason is the top journalist, the top news gathering executive, the real journalist who sets the tone of our coverage.

BLITZER: So, but the bottom line is CNN is ready to cover a war or any other major story that might break anytime soon?

ISAACSON: Well, absolutely, because I'm going to be here. I hate to tell you this, Wolf, but you ain't getting rid of me this soon. I'm going to be here and one reason is because I think there's going to be a tough news period going ahead.

As you know, because you were out there, Eason Jordan and I went to the Persian Gulf region about a month ago. We visited Kuwait and Bahrain, Qatar, the battleship Constellation. We have 150 reporters that are now trained, ready to cover that war, that have gone through war training. They're going to be embedded with the troops, and I am dedicated.

One of the things about making this announcement now is I get to focus on the journalism and I get to take my mind a little bit off of the budgets for two or three years down the road and I'm going to focus on the journalism that we're going to do should there be a war in the Persian Gulf region.

BLITZER: You know, Walter, you might be surprised to learn you're not getting rid of me so quickly either. Months ago I was invited to speak at the Aspen Institute this summer in Colorado, so you might be seeing me out there as well.

ISAACSON: Well, you know, Judy Woodruff has done it. Paula Zahn's been speaking at the Aspen Institute. You are. I'm sure we won't even in May get rid of each other because you're going to have to be very involved in the policy programs we do at the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plantation and help with the foreign policy stuff. And who knows, Wolf, you might even invite me back on as a guest when I'm not your boss.

BLITZER: We'll definitely have you on from the Aspen Institute, any place, having been a graduate of that Aspen executive seminar in the '80s I'm quite familiar where you're going, what you're going to be doing.

I think on behalf of all of us at CNN, Walter, all of the rank and file journalists out there, everybody, the producers and the on- air, everybody else, we only wish you the best of luck. Good luck to you.

ISAACSON: Gee, thanks, and I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot of you, Wolf, and we'll really rise to the challenge of covering news in the next few months.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Walter. Good luck. As I said, Walter Isaacson, he's going to be with us for a little bit longer but then he's moving on. Walter Isaacson, the chairman and chief operating officer -- chief executive officer of CNN.

We have more news coming up. A rock legend arrested for viewing child pornography, Pete Townshend is behind bars. He says it was just for research, details on the investigation when we return.

Also, separated and surviving, conjoined twins pulled apart to save their lives, the latest on their long journey home. Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that they had to operate on Maurice during the shock of cardiac arrest is very questionable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is questionable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Disco legend, Maurice Gibb, who's responsible for his death? Find out why his Bee Gee brothers are accusing a Florida hospital of negligence.

But first, today's news quiz. "Saturday Night Fever" is the best-selling soundtrack of all time. What was the best-selling single off that album, "How Deep is Your Love," "More Than a Woman," "Stayin' Alive," "Night Fever," the answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: One of the biggest names in rock music has been arrested on suspicion of possessing child pornography but Pete Townshend of "The Who" says he logged on to a child porn Web site only to do research.

CNN's Diana Muriel is joining us now live from London with details. A shocking story, Diana, give us the details.

DIANE MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Pete Townshend was arrested at his home in Richmond, in South London at 7:25 this evening by detectives. He has been taken to a southwest London police station.

The police are not saying where and he has not been charged though with any crime. However, he was arrested on suspicion of making and possessing indecent images of children and of incitement to distribute indecent images of children.

Pete Townshend's arrest follows a raid that took place at the rock star's home this afternoon. Detectives are understood to have taken away boxes containing envelopes, plastic bags, Polaroid film, and also several computers.

Earlier this week when the story broke in a national tabloid newspaper, Pete Townshend made a statement to the press where he said that he was happy for the police to examine his hard drive of his computer in a bid to prove his innocence.

He did admit that he had been on child porn sites but he said that this was part of research that he was doing for an autobiographical book looking at his childhood. He says he thought he may have been the subject, the victim of abuse when he was a small child between the ages of five and six when he was living with relatives.

Friends have come out to give their support to him, including Roger Daltrey of "The Who." No charges, as I say have been brought against him -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Is there any indication in his past whatsoever that he was involved indeed in child pornography, any indication of any sordid kind of past behavior?

MURIEL: Well, it's hard to say with this so fresh and so new. There has been a lot of speculation between the weekend press following up from that original article in "The Sun" newspaper, that there were images from the film "Tommy" that could be part of some sort of pedophile idea.

But in the past his name has not been associated with this and he is adamant that he only went onto those child porn sites because he was doing this research for his book -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see how this story plays out. Diana Muriel in London, Diana thanks very much.

We have much more to cover, including anger and joy in Illinois. Should everyone on death row have gotten a free pass, reaction to the controversial decision when we come back?

And, a medical comeback, twin girls once joined at the head defy all odds and head home.

But first, in case you were out enjoying the weekend, here's our Weekend Snapshot.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Case is out; embattled AOL/Time Warner Chairman Steve Case is resigning. Case has long been blamed by shareholders for the giant media company's fall and fortunes.

Among other things his departure means the company's leadership will be without any of the key players of the huge merger of American Online and Time Warner in 2001. AOL/Time Warner is the parent company of CNN.

Shipping out; four more navy warships have been ordered to the Persian Gulf and possible war with Iraq. The ships form an amphibious task force carrying 7,000 marines. Marine Corps officials say about 65,000 marines will be sent to the Gulf if President Bush orders an invasion of Iraq.

Rising gas prices; in case you didn't notice, you paid an average of almost six cents per gallon more to fill up your car over the past three weeks. According to the Lundberg Survey, the average price per gallon of self-serve regular is $1.47. Analysts blame the continuing oil strike in Venezuela.

Still no sign; divers searched waters near San Francisco Bay for Laci Peterson, the pregnant woman who's been missing since Christmas Eve. Peterson's husband told police he was fishing alone in the bay on that day. Authorities say no possibilities have been ruled out but they have no suspects.

Found alive. Five climbers lost in whiteout conditions overnight on Oregon's Mount Hood were found in good condition yesterday. They dug a snow cave to protect themselves from the snow and high winds.

Now there are four. Four teams are left in the battle of who will play in the Super Bowl. Yesterday, Oakland overwhelmed the New York Jets 30 to 10 and will meet the Tennessee Titans for the AFC championships on Sunday. And the Tampa Bay Buccaneers rolled over the San Francisco 49ers 31 to 6, and will clash with the Philadelphia Eagles for the NFC title game. The winners meet in the Super Bowl January 26.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Illinois inaugurated a new governor today, Democrat Rod Blagojevich. The old governor, George Ryan, did not run for re-election but he didn't go quietly either. Ryan ended his term in office with a controversial flourish. He commuted the sentences of all 167 inmates on Illinois's death row. CNN's Chicago bureau chief, Jeff Flock, reports that victims' families are furious.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE RYAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ILLINOIS: Today, I'm commuting the sentence of all death row inmates, 167 of them.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): History, with one bold stroke, Governor George Ryan effectively erases the names and empties the cells of Illinois's death row.

RYAN: I'm satisfied that I made the right decision.

CRYSTAL FITCH, MURDER VICTIM'S SISTER: Yes, I'm paying my money. I'm paying tax money for this murderer of my sister to continue to live.

FLOCK: Crystal Fitch's sister was raped, murdered and left in a dumpster. This man sentenced to die for it. Ryan sent Fitch and other victims' families these letters saying the guilty will get life in prison instead of death.

FITCH: Tell me in my face that you're going to commute the guy who killed my sister and you told me you were going to review that case. You lied to me.

RYAN: They have a right to feel betrayed. I had probably misled them, certainly not intentionally.

FLOCK: After his dramatic speech, Ryan told me he didn't decide on the blanket commutation until Friday afternoon.

(on camera): What was the thing that finally crystallized it for you that made you take such dramatic action?

RYAN: I suppose what forced my hand is that I'm not going to be governor after Monday at noon. And if I was going to make a decision, I had to do it and I to do it pretty quick.

FLOCK (voice-over): This man replaces Ryan and has his own ideas about the death penalty.

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: But I disagree with his decision to provide blanket clemency. I think blanket anything is usually wrong. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to this. We're talking about convicted murderers and I just think that that is a mistake.

FLOCK: Almost immediately on death row at the prison in Pontiac they stopped transporting prisoners in shackles, as was the rule for the condemned. Eventually, they will be moved out of these cells and into the general prison population.

(on camera): What will that be like?

AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: That's no country club. You could get killed in prison population.

FLOCK (voice-over): Aaron Patterson would know. Ryan pardoned him the day before along with Leroy Orange who sat down for his first interview with us.

LEROY ORANGE, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: A sigh of relief, a lot of pressure that was lifted from me. I didn't realize so much pressure was on me.

FLOCK: The pressure now lifts from George Ryan too; a decision agonized over for months, finally made and history with it.

RYAN: I'm going to sleep well tonight knowing that I made the right decision.

FLOCK: I'm Jeff Flock, CNN in Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- what do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf.

Tom Ramos is joining us now live from Springfield, Illinois. His sister and her two small children were murdered in 1988. But as a result of Governor Ryan's order over the weekend, the man convicted of those murders will avoid execution. He will spend the rest of his life in jail though.

Mr. Ramos, first of all, our condolences to you. Thanks for joining us. What's going through your mind right now? How do you feel about Governor Ryan's decision?

TOM RAMOS, VICTIM'S BROTHER: I'm still very upset about Governor Ryan's decision, but I guess I have to live with it because one thing that's for certain, I'm glad he is no longer the governor of the State of Illinois.

BLITZER: Do you understand why he made this decision given the irregularities in Illinois and the use of the death penalty there, all the questions that have been raised?

RAMOS: No, I don't understand it and I'm going to tell you why. First of all, he never gave us an individual explanation on each case; on why is he putting these men who were on death row into the general population as far as commuting their sentences to life. We were never told why. All he's saying...

BLITZER: I was going to say did he ever speak to your -- any of your other relatives and discuss this specific case with them? RAMOS: No, not at all. His only communication with us was by letter or by mail. That's it.

BLITZER: The whole notion, though, that perhaps even if it's one in a million, the chance that this individual was wrongly convicted and maybe sparing his life right now would serve justice, what does that say to you, if in fact, there is even the tiniest of tiny possibilities that he didn't do it?

RAMOS: Well, I'll tell you one thing, this man -- this man killed my sister and these two children that were only two and three years old. Just not -- just killed them, he burned them to death. I was there at the court -- at 26 in California and Chicago. I was there for the death -- I'm sorry, not the death penalty hearing. I was there for the trial. I listened to the testimony. I listened to the prosecutors. The jury deliberated. It wasn't an all white jury. It was a mixed jury as far as racial, Hispanic, black and white. And this person did commit the crime. And as far as the justice, you're saying here, you know, there -- we don't -- there is no justice here. This man is allowed to live.

BLITZER: What do you hope the new governor who just took office today will do?

RAMOS: Well, I'll tell you one thing, I did happen to have a chance to see Rod Blagojevich and shake his hand and say, "congratulations." And I said, "I hope you do -- you keep the death penalty." And I hope that after he reviews what's happening, when he does go to office tomorrow and on Tuesday, as far as his death penalty, I hope he would just review it, talk to the states attorneys throughout Illinois and let's see what else they want to do so we don't have this.

Advocates out there saying this is wrong way of doing things with the death penalty. People are being mistreated and wrongly convicted. Let's get -- all right you have a clean -- it's clean now. There's no one in death row. Start from scratch and I just hope that when all completed, that the death penalty stays in place because we do need it in this country.

BLITZER: Tom Ramos, our heart goes out to you and to your entire family. The pictures we saw of your sister, she looked like a very lovely woman. Our deepest condolences to you. Good luck in dealing with this painful moment in your life. We appreciate you joining us very much.

RAMOS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: The journey home for twin girls once joined at the head. The latest on their medical comeback still to come, but first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

Progress toward peace? Two rebel groups have signed a cease-fire agreement with the government of the Ivory Coast. That means they'll be able to join a third rebel group in peace talks that begin this week. Another delay, the war crimes trial of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic has been halted again. Milosevic complained of flu symptoms. The trial started almost a year ago but it's been stopped repeatedly because of Milosevic's health.

Atomic adventure. Protesters broke into a nuclear power plant in eastern England. Some stood on the roof of the reactor dome. They say they were trying to demonstrate the plant's lack of security. Police escorted them from the site.

Monarch on the mend. Britain's Queen Elizabeth had surgery to remove torn cartilage from her right knee. Buckingham palace says it will take the 76-year-old monarch a few weeks to heal completely but a full recovery is expected.

Mao's mouse? Cartoon characters turned out in force, as ground was broken for a Disney theme park in China. When it's completed in 2006, Hong Kong Disneyland is expected to draw 5.6 million visitors a year.

That's all right, mama. There was a contest in Tokyo for Elvis Presley impersonators and the winner was a woman who sang a Chuck Berry song. Despite her sex and song selection, judges said her performance was true to the spirit of Elvis. So as Elvis might put it, don't be cruel. And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what was the best-selling single off "Saturday Night Fever", the best-selling soundtrack of all time? The answer, "Night Fever." It was number one for eight weeks.

A member of the band that created that soundtrack and single, Maurice Gibb, died yesterday after emergency surgery. Gibb and his brothers performing as the Bee Gees dominated the disco scene in the '70s. Gibbs' brothers, besides being shocked, are suspicious of the way Maurice died. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The family of Maurice Gibb wants to know whether the hospital did everything it could to prevent their brother's death. In an exclusive interview with the BBC, Barry and Maurice's twin, Robin, raised concerns.

BARRY GIBB, BEE GEES: The fact they had to operate during the shock of cardiac arrest is very questionable. And we will pursue every factor, every element, every second of the timeline, of the final hours of Maurice's life.

CANDIOTTI: There are few details about the final days and hours leading to Gibbs' death. Last Wednesday, he was rushed to the hospital from his Miami Beach home with an intestinal blockage. The hospital says he suffered a cardiac arrest before surgery. Why is unclear. Surgery went on. B. GIBB: They removed 80 percent of his stomach and that's the percentage they put on it.

CANDIOTTI: One doctor unrelated to the case tells CNN that to proceed with surgery following cardiac arrest, something catastrophic might have happened to Gibbs' intestines or stomach, but without specifics, it's impossible to judge. The hospital citing privacy reasons had no comment. After surgery, Gibbs' agent says he was able to open his eyes, wiggle his toes and see family.

A hospital source says Michael Jackson paid him a visit. At a Miami diner where Gibbs was a regular, owners left his coffee mug and autographed photo at his favorite table, customers call Gibb unpretentious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time he used to come in, he used to say hello to everybody. He was a neighborhood guy. He was a regular guy. Nothing -- nobody was afraid to approach him.

CANDIOTTI: It is his music and the man who made it that will be missed most.

ROBIN GIBB, BEE GEES: And he's just one of the most beautiful people in the world and a very gifted man. And it's a loss to the world, not just for us.

CANDIOTTI: The remaining Gibb brothers say they'll continue to write and perform as the Bee Gees and promise the next album dedicated to their brother.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's a landmark day in the life of the 17-month-old twins after spending their entire lives in hospitals. The girls who were born joined at the head are going home. Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has this remarkable story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Going home in style. Maria de Jesus and Maria Teresa Quiej Alvarez arrived at UCLA Medical Center five months ago attached at the head and will return home to Guatemala separated. Doctors say the girls, now 17 months old, are in excellent condition after undergoing a 23-hour separation surgery in August.

DR. EDWARD MCCABE, PYSICIAN IN CHIEF, UCLA CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: The hard work of these caregivers has been rewarded in many ways. Certainly, they enabled the two Marias to overcome an astonishing, physical obstacle and to launch independently their healthy lives.

COHEN: So what will their lives be like? Will they be like other children their age? Impossible to say, according to their doctors because so few children attached at the head have been successfully separated. Right now, they're way behind other 17-month- olds. They can't sit up on their own. They can't walk or even crawl. They'll be admitted to a Guatemalan hospital for physical and occupational therapy.

DR. JORGE LAZAREFF, NEUROSURGEON: It is possible that they will not reach the milestones of their second year of life as rapidly as any other child would.

COHEN: like everything else they've done, the girls will go home in an unconventional way, in a plane provided by Federal Express.

CHRIS EMBLETON, HEALING THE CHILDREN: And we are very, very grateful, the fact that we can say that we are Fedexing the girls home.

COHEN: A team of seven UCLA doctors, nurses and therapists will accompany the girls to Guatemala and spend time with the medical team there. So far the doctors say they're pleased with the girls' progress. They coo. They respond to people, all the things that doctors and nurses have been hoping for all these months.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: The girls' plane is due to land in Guatemala in the next few hours --Wolf.

BLITZER: You say, Elizabeth, that they're behind, but how much progress do you think they're making right now?

COHEN: Doctors say they've made a great deal of progress. For example, after the surgery, Maria Teresa, who wasn't quite doing as well as her sister, had problems grasping objects. She couldn't grasp a rattle or a toy and now she can. So doctors say when you look at what they've done in the past few months since the surgery, it shows that they've done very well and they hope they continue to do well -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope for best. An amazing story. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks for that good report.

In a moment, a surprise for me when I tuned into late night television Saturday night. We'll show you what's go on.

Also, time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." What do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? Log onto CNN.com/Wolf. You can vote. We'll have the results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Remember we've been asking you this question -- what do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? Look at this, 57 percent of you so far say that you approve. Forty- three percent disapprove. You can find the exact vote tally and continue to vote, by the way, on our Web site, CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Still to come, a Saturday night surprise for me. You won't want to miss it. I don't think you will. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally, our "Picture of The Day" courtesy of "Saturday Night Live." Cast members opened their show this past weekend with this parody of North Korea's dictator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: "Saturday Night Live" normally seen at this time will be delayed so that we may bring you the following live address from North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Il.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Good evening. Recent provocative and hooliganistic statements by the cowboy government of the United States have villainously slandered our nation and threatened the joyful happiness of the Korean people. The North Korean people will contemptuously reject these accusations and continue to support our wise policy of cheating on all international agreements, then, indignantly denying this when we are caught.

So let me warn the gun-slinging buccaneer, George Bush, and his henchmen, Jimmy Carter and Wolf Blitzer. I am not some pretty chieftain to be easily intimidated. I am extremely...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I am not a henchman for -- never mind. That's all the time we have today. Please join me again tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Don't forget "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" weekdays noon Easter. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Speaking of henchman, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 13, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's Monday, January 13, 2003. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Is the Bush administration easing up just a bit on North Korea? Is there a way out of the current standoff?
Let's go immediately to our White House correspondent Dana Bash. She's standing by with the latest -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, the Bush administration did go a step further in trying to get talks started with North Korea to try to find a diplomatic solution to what's going on there.

Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly who is in Seoul, South Korea for talks with officials there did say earlier today that there would be opportunities for North Korea if the United States -- if it would prove to the United States that they would stop its nuclear program. Those opportunities would be in the form of perhaps some energy assistance.

Now, here at the White House, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer clarified what the secretary was saying, repeated statements saying that the only reason, the only way the U.S. would negotiate in any kind of aid like that would be if North Korea first stopped its nuclear program in a verifiable way.

Fleischer also denied any accusations that there is any inconsistency here in the policy. Here at the White House over the past few weeks they have been saying that they will not give into blackmail or offer inducement to North Korea in order to stop its weapons program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, CNN WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: There is a perfect consistency here. Mr. Kelly said that once we get beyond their nuclear weapons then there may be opportunities in the area of energy. But as I made clear before, I said the United States is willing to talk, not negotiate. We are willing to talk about North Korea dismantling its facilities and coming back into international compliance with their obligations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: But, Wolf, Fleischer also noted that the ball is still in North Korea's court, that there has been no response to any of these offers from the United States for any kind of talks -- Wolf. BLITZER: Dana Bash at the White House. Dana, thanks very much.

The Bush administration insists it wants to resolve the crisis with North Korea diplomatically, but what happens if diplomacy fails? Is there a military option?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): During a similar nuclear standoff with North Korea in 1994, then President Bill Clinton ordered the Pentagon to consider a preemptive military strike. Samuel Berger was then Deputy National Security Adviser.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We were reinforcing our troop presence in South Korea and had other military options on the table.

BLITZER: Of immediate concern were the 8,000 spent fuel rods the North Koreans had at their nuclear reactor, enough plutonium to make five or six bombs.

DANIEL PONEMAN, FORMER NSC OFFICIAL: As a strong view, that would be an intolerable step. We'd have to stop it.

BLITZER: But a preemptive air strike against the nuclear reactor was averted after North Korea agreed to stop its nuclear bomb program in exchange for economic assistance.

President Bush has repeatedly insisted in recent days he wants the current standoff resolved diplomatically. At the same time, Pentagon planners, as they always do, consider various military options.

All of those options are ugly because the North Koreans have a million man army only miles away from South Korea and its capital Seoul. The U.S. has 37,000 troops along the demilitarized zone just yards away from North Korea's front line forces.

The North Koreans also have enormous stockpiles of artillery and ballistic missiles capable of reaching not only South Korea and Japan but perhaps even Alaska.

And, the U.S. intelligence community believes the North Koreans already possess one or two nuclear bombs. So, what kind of scenario might unfold?

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): It's the ugliest of ugly with a lot of bad things happening to the capital, the people of South Korea, U.S. troops there, and of course the outcome is not in doubt but it would be ugly getting there.

BLITZER: Ashton Carter was assistant secretary of defense during the 1994 crisis with North Korea.

ASHTON CARTER, FMR. ASST. DEFENSE SECY.: We would destroy their armed forces and ultimately destroy their regime. All that we're very confident of. However, in the course of that combat, which takes place in the suburbs of Seoul, not in the desert, the Arabian Desert, many, many people are killed, North Koreans, South Koreans, Americans, combatants and non-combatants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: There's little doubt, therefore, that a war with North Korea would be catastrophic.

Joining me now for some additional insight is William Taylor. He's a national security expert, a former infantry officer. He visited North Korea on several occasions, even met at length with that country's former leader Kim Il Song.

Colonel Taylor thanks so much for joining us. How bad would it be if it came down, God forbid, to an actual war between the United States and North Korea?

COL. WILLIAM TAYLOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: First, I don't think North Korea is going to attack South, because I briefed their leadership about the lessons they should have learned from the Gulf War, Kosovo, et cetera, and Afghanistan.

They're not going to launch a suicidal attack. I don't think that we will use a military option by planning. I worry about war by accident or miscalculation at times of high tension.

BLITZER: What does that mean war by miscalculation? How could that possibly happen, a catastrophic development like that?

TAYLOR: Something happens at the DMZ, commanders get the wrong word, firing starts across the DMZ, leaders escalate their decisions, and it happens.

You're interested in how it plays out. Here's how it plays out. We win and we, the U.S. and the South Korean combined forces command, in two months or less of high intensity conflict we obliterate North Korea.

We have 24-hour surveillance. If it moves on the battlefield we can see it. If it communicates on the battlefield, we can hear it. And, if we can see and hear it we can kill it with air power to begin with.

But in the process, the North Koreans had two-thirds of their 1.2 million man force up close to the DMZ within range of Seoul, ten million people Seoul's capital, thousands of Americans there by the way, not just soldiers. We got about 45,000 Americans in South Korea.

They launch their artillery, long range, 170 mm artillery, chemical and biological warheads, no debate on that. Everybody knows that. Long range mortars, they have more than 500 Soviet type Scud missiles that can hit all of Seoul and further south.

And if there were a war and we had support from our Japanese ally, at least logistical basing support, the North Koreans have No- Dong 1 missile. It wipes out one-third of Japan, chemical/bio...

BLITZER: So basically what you're saying is that the military option really is not credible given the devastating price the U.S. and its allies would face.

TAYLOR: The classic term, Wolf, is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) victory. We win and we lose in the process.

BLITZER: And so, when people say they're reviewing military options, it sounds as if the North Koreans certainly have a strong hand in this standoff.

TAYLOR: Exactly, they do. And back to another point, you had some great people, Kissinger and Cohen and Sandy Berger on your program on Sunday. Everybody says talk. More say negotiate, Republicans leaders in the Senate, Democrat leaders in the Senate. We want to avoid the kind of war we just talked about.

BLITZER: Colonel Bill Taylor, ominous words but thanks for your incite. Hopefully it will never happen, appreciate it very much.

Let's turn now to the crisis with Iraq. As U.N. inspectors search technical colleges in Baghdad, the International Atomic Energy Agency today said the hunt for weapons could take perhaps a year.

And a spokesman added this, "It's worth the wait." The spokesman said the longer the inspectors are on the scene, the more likely they are to find something.

The British Prime Minister Tony Blair said today the world must wait to see what the inspectors find. A staunch supporter, of course, of President Bush's tough stance, Mr. Blair said he won't send British troops to war unless he thinks it's absolutely necessary, but he vowed that if Saddam Hussein does not give up his weapons, "He will be disarmed by force."

Pope John Paul II today made clear where he stands. In a strongly worded address, the pontiff explained no to war adding, "War is not always inevitable and it always a defeat for humanity."

Speaking at the Vatican, the pope noted that the Iraqi people have already suffered through more than 12 years of sanctions. He said military force should only be used, "As the very last option."

And Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah says in his view, "There will be no war." He says the Saudis have proposed an initiative to head off a conflict and are asking other Arab nations to agree to the plan. The comments followed unconfirmed reports that Arab states have urged the Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to step down and seek asylum in the region. Crown Prince Abdullah not offering additional details of his initiative.

A group of peace activists, most from the United States, are now in Baghdad trying to convince Saddam Hussein's government to avoid war. In the group, Bianca Jagger, earlier I spoke with her and Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Bianca, thanks once again for joining us. There are people out there, including Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard" who believe you're simply allowing yourself to be used by Saddam Hussein for propaganda purposes against the United States. What do you say?

BIANCA JAGGER, HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, first of all my message is that I am asking from the Iraqi government to comply with U.N. resolutions. And, what I am saying, which I think is perfectly reasonable, is that we have to keep in mind that those who will suffer the most are the civilian population, women and children.

And the other thing that I'm saying are my three points is that why do we have a different standard for North Korea and for Iraq? If we are prepared to have a solution for North Korea through negotiations and through diplomacy, why don't we have that with Iraq?

BLITZER: Stephen, why is Bianca wrong?

STEPHEN HAYES, "WEEKLY STANDARD": Well, the problem with Bianca is that she is over in Baghdad right now, and as we know from previous trips, whether it's Democratic Congressmen Jim McDermott and David Bonior, whether it's Sean Penn, those people who have traveled to Baghdad have been used repeatedly as propaganda tools.

And then they come back to the United States and they say well I had no idea that this brutal dictator, who has murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people was going to use me as a propaganda tool.

Now, she's standing there in Baghdad. She should understand clearly you will be used as a propaganda tool so you should know that while you're standing there.

BLITZER: All right, what about that, Bianca?

JAGGER: OK, Stephen, I have been in very difficult places from Nicaragua all the way down to the former Yugoslavia on situations like this. I'm a human right advocate. I am here advocating for improvements on the human rights situation.

I am here to advocate that the Iraqi government allow a delegation from Amnesty International and other human rights organizations. There is no way that they can manipulate me. I haven't even spoken to the Iraqi media.

HAYES: The Iraqi government is responsible for killing several hundred thousand of the same innocent civilians you claim you're there to speak on their behalf. They have killed several hundred thousand of those innocent civilians.

You should know that you're going to be used, probably today in "Iraq Daily" the daily newspaper that Saddam puts out. They'll have a report saying that you say that Iraq is clear of weapons of mass destruction.

JAGGER: I have never said that. I could not say that. I am not an arms inspector.

HAYES: Of course you haven't but they're going to say that you said it.

JAGGER: No. Stephen forgive me for taking a different position than you. I have not said it. I'm saying in all international media that is not my message. I am sure that they will not be making that mistake. I do not think that they say that about Sean Penn, and I think that my argument is valid. I am concerned about the civilian population.

HAYES: Look, Sean Penn was here on CNN on Saturday night. Sean Penn was here on CNN on Saturday night and he said look I had no idea they were going to use me as a propaganda tool. It's exactly what happened to Sean Penn and exactly what happened to the Baghdad Democrats while they were in Iraq, and it's exactly what will happen to you.

JAGGER: Stephen, I saw Sean Penn just before I took off. I watched him on Larry King. I thought that he was very reasonable, that he made his point, and that we could not really attack him for what he's saying.

I mean it is important for us that we put a human face on the people of Iraq. It has nothing to do with Saddam Hussein. It has nothing to do with his government. It has to do for my concern as a human rights advocate for the consequences for the civilian population (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HAYES: If you were truly concerned as a human rights advocate, it would have a lot to do with Saddam Hussein and it would have a lot to do with the 200,000 people that he's already slaughtered in his own country.

JAGGER: Stephen, we can resolve those problems not always with a war. Another question that I have is why do we have a different foreign policy when it comes to North Korea and when it comes to Iraq?

What signals and what message are we sending to the rest of the world that will not be productive for Americans who will be traveling throughout the world and will continue to increase the dislike against America. We have to have a better foreign policy. We can not resolve all problems with war.

HAYES: Nobody is suggesting that we can resolve al problems with war, and I would be happy to have that debate with you back on United States soil where you're not giving aid and comfort to a dictator who's murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people. It's really disgraceful.

BLITZER: But Stephen, let me interrupt. Let me interrupt. She makes a good point. Why is there one standard, one policy towards North Korea which is a dictatorship that has oppressed its own people, and a different policy towards Iraq?

HAYES: Well, I think that's a good question. There are some of us who wish that we had the same policy. For instance, I don't think the Bush administration should have taken a military confrontation off the table with regard to North Korea.

Having said that Saddam Hussein is a unique dictator in that he's murdered several hundreds of thousands of his own people. Every time he's had an opportunity to be aggressive, he has been, whether it's invading Iran, whether it's invading Kuwait, whether it's launching an assassination attempt on President Bush. He's a unique dictator in that respect.

BLITZER: All right, Bianca, I'll give you the last word because we're running out of time.

JAGGER: Yes, sure.

BLITZER: But on the main point that you will make to Iraqi leaders, Iraqi officials with whom you and your delegation will be meeting in the coming days, what is going to be your message to those Iraqis?

JAGGER: My message will be to strongly recommend to comply with U.N. resolutions, that I as someone who opposes the policy of President Bush believe that he intends and he has made the decision to attack Iraq, that therefore they had to comply if they want to avoid it and if they want to have the international community supporting or opposing a war.

The other thing that I would like to say is that we should look back at the Cuban Missile Crisis and see the way President Kennedy handled it. Why was he able to find a non-military solution at a time when the United States was really threatened by nuclear weapons? Why can't President Bush do the same?

BLITZER: All right, Bianca Jagger on a windy night in Baghdad, thanks once again for joining us. And, Stephen Hayes of the "Weekly Standard," thanks to you as well.

HAYES: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Shifting now to some very surprising news here at CNN. The Chairman Walter Isaacson today announced he's leaving at the end of the spring to become head of the Aspen Institute.

Walter Isaacson is joining me now live from Atlanta at the CNN Center. Walter, I was stunned when I heard the news. I'm sure a lot of our viewers were totally surprised as well. What happened?

WALTER ISAACSON, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, CNN NEWS GROUP: Well, I called you, Wolf, so you wouldn't be so stunned. What happened was the Aspen Institute is something I've always dreamed of doing, a wonderful program involving leadership, ideas, people, and the timing wasn't absolutely perfect but I convinced them to wait until this summer, and it's something I really wanted to do. I think we've got CNN on the right track. It is a newsy, hard, real reported network. It's the most credible and reliable network by far, and it's doing very well with great signature shows, including this new one that I'm on right now by you.

BLITZER: All right, well let's get to some of the specific speculation that I'm sure is already out there. In fact, the wire services are already reporting a lot of speculation.

The merger between CNN and ABC News that's been mooted, does that have anything at all to do with your decision?

ISAACSON: No, no, no. It was totally, I didn't even think about it when I was thinking about this. It happened I was up in New York in December for the annual dinner of the Aspen Institute featuring Don Whitehead and Jimmy Carter and others, and it so happened that our colleague Judy Woodruff was doing the emcee that night.

So, we went to this big black tie dinner, and while I was there, while I was leaving some people came up to me and started asking me about doing this and I said the timing is not exactly right but it's something I really want to do with my life.

And, over the next few weeks I talked to Jamie Kellner who runs Turner Broadcasting, and he tried to talk me into saying and said at least stay through the summer. We've got the war coming up with Iraq potentially. We have other things.

I said sure. I'll wait. I'll do it sometime this summer or end of the spring. But I didn't want to let this opportunity pass. As you know, Wolf, I really love writing. I really love ideas. It's the type of life I really want for the second phase of my career.

BLITZER: I know you've been working over these past several years on a biography of Benjamin Franklin. I assume you'll get that done in the not too distant future now.

ISAACSON: I darned well better, but this is what Ben Franklin did in his life. He was a journalist. He was a reporter. He had his own newspaper and other things.

And then, at a certain time in his life, about the age I am now, he decided to move and he formed the American Philosophical Society, something called the Junto (ph). He got very involved in policy and government and ideas and decided to have a second phase.

So, maybe by studying Benjamin Franklin I realized we all need to do that with our lives, and this is the type of thing I've been thinking about for four or five years is what I'd do with the second part of my career.

BLITZER: Walter, you've been a journalists' journalist for so many years, but television was relatively new for you when you came over from "TIME" magazine. What was the biggest surprise that you learned about TV journalism over this time that you've been at CNN? ISAACSON: Yes, that's a good question. You know for 24 years I've been at this company and I've been a journalist. I do think I have a real feel for writing. I love that.

I had to learn the tricks of the video trade. I do feel that the basic principles of journalism are all the same, you know, to be credible, to try to focus on what's really news and I think we did that over the past two years at CNN. We moved away from things that were too frivolous and have gotten into being a real reported network.

So, I enjoyed the journalism of it but I'm not going to be disingenuous here. I don't think being a TV executive for the rest of my life I really have the absolute feel for television.

BLITZER: What happens to CNN now? Talk about the succession, the successor or successors to Walter Isaacson.

ISAACSON: What we did, as you know Wolf, when I came it took me about a year to put in place a team that I felt was just right. Jim Walter has been the chief operating officer and the number two really running the day-to-day business of all our 15 or 16 networks.

Taya Ryan (ph) came in and she's got this great feel for television. I mean she really knows how to produce shows. She's the one who moved with me the network from being these rolling newscasts to being signature shows, starting the day with Paula Zahn, going through your show, and ending with the Aaron Brown show at night.

And then, Eason Jordan has been the top news gathering executive, the top journalist here. He's the best journalist in the TV business. So, no, the team is going to stay in place.

Jim Walton moves up to be the number one person. Taya continues to run CNN/U.S., and Eason is the top journalist, the top news gathering executive, the real journalist who sets the tone of our coverage.

BLITZER: So, but the bottom line is CNN is ready to cover a war or any other major story that might break anytime soon?

ISAACSON: Well, absolutely, because I'm going to be here. I hate to tell you this, Wolf, but you ain't getting rid of me this soon. I'm going to be here and one reason is because I think there's going to be a tough news period going ahead.

As you know, because you were out there, Eason Jordan and I went to the Persian Gulf region about a month ago. We visited Kuwait and Bahrain, Qatar, the battleship Constellation. We have 150 reporters that are now trained, ready to cover that war, that have gone through war training. They're going to be embedded with the troops, and I am dedicated.

One of the things about making this announcement now is I get to focus on the journalism and I get to take my mind a little bit off of the budgets for two or three years down the road and I'm going to focus on the journalism that we're going to do should there be a war in the Persian Gulf region.

BLITZER: You know, Walter, you might be surprised to learn you're not getting rid of me so quickly either. Months ago I was invited to speak at the Aspen Institute this summer in Colorado, so you might be seeing me out there as well.

ISAACSON: Well, you know, Judy Woodruff has done it. Paula Zahn's been speaking at the Aspen Institute. You are. I'm sure we won't even in May get rid of each other because you're going to have to be very involved in the policy programs we do at the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plantation and help with the foreign policy stuff. And who knows, Wolf, you might even invite me back on as a guest when I'm not your boss.

BLITZER: We'll definitely have you on from the Aspen Institute, any place, having been a graduate of that Aspen executive seminar in the '80s I'm quite familiar where you're going, what you're going to be doing.

I think on behalf of all of us at CNN, Walter, all of the rank and file journalists out there, everybody, the producers and the on- air, everybody else, we only wish you the best of luck. Good luck to you.

ISAACSON: Gee, thanks, and I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot of you, Wolf, and we'll really rise to the challenge of covering news in the next few months.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Walter. Good luck. As I said, Walter Isaacson, he's going to be with us for a little bit longer but then he's moving on. Walter Isaacson, the chairman and chief operating officer -- chief executive officer of CNN.

We have more news coming up. A rock legend arrested for viewing child pornography, Pete Townshend is behind bars. He says it was just for research, details on the investigation when we return.

Also, separated and surviving, conjoined twins pulled apart to save their lives, the latest on their long journey home. Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that they had to operate on Maurice during the shock of cardiac arrest is very questionable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is questionable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Disco legend, Maurice Gibb, who's responsible for his death? Find out why his Bee Gee brothers are accusing a Florida hospital of negligence.

But first, today's news quiz. "Saturday Night Fever" is the best-selling soundtrack of all time. What was the best-selling single off that album, "How Deep is Your Love," "More Than a Woman," "Stayin' Alive," "Night Fever," the answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: One of the biggest names in rock music has been arrested on suspicion of possessing child pornography but Pete Townshend of "The Who" says he logged on to a child porn Web site only to do research.

CNN's Diana Muriel is joining us now live from London with details. A shocking story, Diana, give us the details.

DIANE MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. Pete Townshend was arrested at his home in Richmond, in South London at 7:25 this evening by detectives. He has been taken to a southwest London police station.

The police are not saying where and he has not been charged though with any crime. However, he was arrested on suspicion of making and possessing indecent images of children and of incitement to distribute indecent images of children.

Pete Townshend's arrest follows a raid that took place at the rock star's home this afternoon. Detectives are understood to have taken away boxes containing envelopes, plastic bags, Polaroid film, and also several computers.

Earlier this week when the story broke in a national tabloid newspaper, Pete Townshend made a statement to the press where he said that he was happy for the police to examine his hard drive of his computer in a bid to prove his innocence.

He did admit that he had been on child porn sites but he said that this was part of research that he was doing for an autobiographical book looking at his childhood. He says he thought he may have been the subject, the victim of abuse when he was a small child between the ages of five and six when he was living with relatives.

Friends have come out to give their support to him, including Roger Daltrey of "The Who." No charges, as I say have been brought against him -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Is there any indication in his past whatsoever that he was involved indeed in child pornography, any indication of any sordid kind of past behavior?

MURIEL: Well, it's hard to say with this so fresh and so new. There has been a lot of speculation between the weekend press following up from that original article in "The Sun" newspaper, that there were images from the film "Tommy" that could be part of some sort of pedophile idea.

But in the past his name has not been associated with this and he is adamant that he only went onto those child porn sites because he was doing this research for his book -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see how this story plays out. Diana Muriel in London, Diana thanks very much.

We have much more to cover, including anger and joy in Illinois. Should everyone on death row have gotten a free pass, reaction to the controversial decision when we come back?

And, a medical comeback, twin girls once joined at the head defy all odds and head home.

But first, in case you were out enjoying the weekend, here's our Weekend Snapshot.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Case is out; embattled AOL/Time Warner Chairman Steve Case is resigning. Case has long been blamed by shareholders for the giant media company's fall and fortunes.

Among other things his departure means the company's leadership will be without any of the key players of the huge merger of American Online and Time Warner in 2001. AOL/Time Warner is the parent company of CNN.

Shipping out; four more navy warships have been ordered to the Persian Gulf and possible war with Iraq. The ships form an amphibious task force carrying 7,000 marines. Marine Corps officials say about 65,000 marines will be sent to the Gulf if President Bush orders an invasion of Iraq.

Rising gas prices; in case you didn't notice, you paid an average of almost six cents per gallon more to fill up your car over the past three weeks. According to the Lundberg Survey, the average price per gallon of self-serve regular is $1.47. Analysts blame the continuing oil strike in Venezuela.

Still no sign; divers searched waters near San Francisco Bay for Laci Peterson, the pregnant woman who's been missing since Christmas Eve. Peterson's husband told police he was fishing alone in the bay on that day. Authorities say no possibilities have been ruled out but they have no suspects.

Found alive. Five climbers lost in whiteout conditions overnight on Oregon's Mount Hood were found in good condition yesterday. They dug a snow cave to protect themselves from the snow and high winds.

Now there are four. Four teams are left in the battle of who will play in the Super Bowl. Yesterday, Oakland overwhelmed the New York Jets 30 to 10 and will meet the Tennessee Titans for the AFC championships on Sunday. And the Tampa Bay Buccaneers rolled over the San Francisco 49ers 31 to 6, and will clash with the Philadelphia Eagles for the NFC title game. The winners meet in the Super Bowl January 26.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Illinois inaugurated a new governor today, Democrat Rod Blagojevich. The old governor, George Ryan, did not run for re-election but he didn't go quietly either. Ryan ended his term in office with a controversial flourish. He commuted the sentences of all 167 inmates on Illinois's death row. CNN's Chicago bureau chief, Jeff Flock, reports that victims' families are furious.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE RYAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ILLINOIS: Today, I'm commuting the sentence of all death row inmates, 167 of them.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): History, with one bold stroke, Governor George Ryan effectively erases the names and empties the cells of Illinois's death row.

RYAN: I'm satisfied that I made the right decision.

CRYSTAL FITCH, MURDER VICTIM'S SISTER: Yes, I'm paying my money. I'm paying tax money for this murderer of my sister to continue to live.

FLOCK: Crystal Fitch's sister was raped, murdered and left in a dumpster. This man sentenced to die for it. Ryan sent Fitch and other victims' families these letters saying the guilty will get life in prison instead of death.

FITCH: Tell me in my face that you're going to commute the guy who killed my sister and you told me you were going to review that case. You lied to me.

RYAN: They have a right to feel betrayed. I had probably misled them, certainly not intentionally.

FLOCK: After his dramatic speech, Ryan told me he didn't decide on the blanket commutation until Friday afternoon.

(on camera): What was the thing that finally crystallized it for you that made you take such dramatic action?

RYAN: I suppose what forced my hand is that I'm not going to be governor after Monday at noon. And if I was going to make a decision, I had to do it and I to do it pretty quick.

FLOCK (voice-over): This man replaces Ryan and has his own ideas about the death penalty.

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: But I disagree with his decision to provide blanket clemency. I think blanket anything is usually wrong. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to this. We're talking about convicted murderers and I just think that that is a mistake.

FLOCK: Almost immediately on death row at the prison in Pontiac they stopped transporting prisoners in shackles, as was the rule for the condemned. Eventually, they will be moved out of these cells and into the general prison population.

(on camera): What will that be like?

AARON PATTERSON, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: That's no country club. You could get killed in prison population.

FLOCK (voice-over): Aaron Patterson would know. Ryan pardoned him the day before along with Leroy Orange who sat down for his first interview with us.

LEROY ORANGE, PARDONED DEATH ROW INMATE: A sigh of relief, a lot of pressure that was lifted from me. I didn't realize so much pressure was on me.

FLOCK: The pressure now lifts from George Ryan too; a decision agonized over for months, finally made and history with it.

RYAN: I'm going to sleep well tonight knowing that I made the right decision.

FLOCK: I'm Jeff Flock, CNN in Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- what do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf.

Tom Ramos is joining us now live from Springfield, Illinois. His sister and her two small children were murdered in 1988. But as a result of Governor Ryan's order over the weekend, the man convicted of those murders will avoid execution. He will spend the rest of his life in jail though.

Mr. Ramos, first of all, our condolences to you. Thanks for joining us. What's going through your mind right now? How do you feel about Governor Ryan's decision?

TOM RAMOS, VICTIM'S BROTHER: I'm still very upset about Governor Ryan's decision, but I guess I have to live with it because one thing that's for certain, I'm glad he is no longer the governor of the State of Illinois.

BLITZER: Do you understand why he made this decision given the irregularities in Illinois and the use of the death penalty there, all the questions that have been raised?

RAMOS: No, I don't understand it and I'm going to tell you why. First of all, he never gave us an individual explanation on each case; on why is he putting these men who were on death row into the general population as far as commuting their sentences to life. We were never told why. All he's saying...

BLITZER: I was going to say did he ever speak to your -- any of your other relatives and discuss this specific case with them? RAMOS: No, not at all. His only communication with us was by letter or by mail. That's it.

BLITZER: The whole notion, though, that perhaps even if it's one in a million, the chance that this individual was wrongly convicted and maybe sparing his life right now would serve justice, what does that say to you, if in fact, there is even the tiniest of tiny possibilities that he didn't do it?

RAMOS: Well, I'll tell you one thing, this man -- this man killed my sister and these two children that were only two and three years old. Just not -- just killed them, he burned them to death. I was there at the court -- at 26 in California and Chicago. I was there for the death -- I'm sorry, not the death penalty hearing. I was there for the trial. I listened to the testimony. I listened to the prosecutors. The jury deliberated. It wasn't an all white jury. It was a mixed jury as far as racial, Hispanic, black and white. And this person did commit the crime. And as far as the justice, you're saying here, you know, there -- we don't -- there is no justice here. This man is allowed to live.

BLITZER: What do you hope the new governor who just took office today will do?

RAMOS: Well, I'll tell you one thing, I did happen to have a chance to see Rod Blagojevich and shake his hand and say, "congratulations." And I said, "I hope you do -- you keep the death penalty." And I hope that after he reviews what's happening, when he does go to office tomorrow and on Tuesday, as far as his death penalty, I hope he would just review it, talk to the states attorneys throughout Illinois and let's see what else they want to do so we don't have this.

Advocates out there saying this is wrong way of doing things with the death penalty. People are being mistreated and wrongly convicted. Let's get -- all right you have a clean -- it's clean now. There's no one in death row. Start from scratch and I just hope that when all completed, that the death penalty stays in place because we do need it in this country.

BLITZER: Tom Ramos, our heart goes out to you and to your entire family. The pictures we saw of your sister, she looked like a very lovely woman. Our deepest condolences to you. Good luck in dealing with this painful moment in your life. We appreciate you joining us very much.

RAMOS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: The journey home for twin girls once joined at the head. The latest on their medical comeback still to come, but first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

Progress toward peace? Two rebel groups have signed a cease-fire agreement with the government of the Ivory Coast. That means they'll be able to join a third rebel group in peace talks that begin this week. Another delay, the war crimes trial of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic has been halted again. Milosevic complained of flu symptoms. The trial started almost a year ago but it's been stopped repeatedly because of Milosevic's health.

Atomic adventure. Protesters broke into a nuclear power plant in eastern England. Some stood on the roof of the reactor dome. They say they were trying to demonstrate the plant's lack of security. Police escorted them from the site.

Monarch on the mend. Britain's Queen Elizabeth had surgery to remove torn cartilage from her right knee. Buckingham palace says it will take the 76-year-old monarch a few weeks to heal completely but a full recovery is expected.

Mao's mouse? Cartoon characters turned out in force, as ground was broken for a Disney theme park in China. When it's completed in 2006, Hong Kong Disneyland is expected to draw 5.6 million visitors a year.

That's all right, mama. There was a contest in Tokyo for Elvis Presley impersonators and the winner was a woman who sang a Chuck Berry song. Despite her sex and song selection, judges said her performance was true to the spirit of Elvis. So as Elvis might put it, don't be cruel. And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what was the best-selling single off "Saturday Night Fever", the best-selling soundtrack of all time? The answer, "Night Fever." It was number one for eight weeks.

A member of the band that created that soundtrack and single, Maurice Gibb, died yesterday after emergency surgery. Gibb and his brothers performing as the Bee Gees dominated the disco scene in the '70s. Gibbs' brothers, besides being shocked, are suspicious of the way Maurice died. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The family of Maurice Gibb wants to know whether the hospital did everything it could to prevent their brother's death. In an exclusive interview with the BBC, Barry and Maurice's twin, Robin, raised concerns.

BARRY GIBB, BEE GEES: The fact they had to operate during the shock of cardiac arrest is very questionable. And we will pursue every factor, every element, every second of the timeline, of the final hours of Maurice's life.

CANDIOTTI: There are few details about the final days and hours leading to Gibbs' death. Last Wednesday, he was rushed to the hospital from his Miami Beach home with an intestinal blockage. The hospital says he suffered a cardiac arrest before surgery. Why is unclear. Surgery went on. B. GIBB: They removed 80 percent of his stomach and that's the percentage they put on it.

CANDIOTTI: One doctor unrelated to the case tells CNN that to proceed with surgery following cardiac arrest, something catastrophic might have happened to Gibbs' intestines or stomach, but without specifics, it's impossible to judge. The hospital citing privacy reasons had no comment. After surgery, Gibbs' agent says he was able to open his eyes, wiggle his toes and see family.

A hospital source says Michael Jackson paid him a visit. At a Miami diner where Gibbs was a regular, owners left his coffee mug and autographed photo at his favorite table, customers call Gibb unpretentious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time he used to come in, he used to say hello to everybody. He was a neighborhood guy. He was a regular guy. Nothing -- nobody was afraid to approach him.

CANDIOTTI: It is his music and the man who made it that will be missed most.

ROBIN GIBB, BEE GEES: And he's just one of the most beautiful people in the world and a very gifted man. And it's a loss to the world, not just for us.

CANDIOTTI: The remaining Gibb brothers say they'll continue to write and perform as the Bee Gees and promise the next album dedicated to their brother.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's a landmark day in the life of the 17-month-old twins after spending their entire lives in hospitals. The girls who were born joined at the head are going home. Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has this remarkable story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Going home in style. Maria de Jesus and Maria Teresa Quiej Alvarez arrived at UCLA Medical Center five months ago attached at the head and will return home to Guatemala separated. Doctors say the girls, now 17 months old, are in excellent condition after undergoing a 23-hour separation surgery in August.

DR. EDWARD MCCABE, PYSICIAN IN CHIEF, UCLA CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: The hard work of these caregivers has been rewarded in many ways. Certainly, they enabled the two Marias to overcome an astonishing, physical obstacle and to launch independently their healthy lives.

COHEN: So what will their lives be like? Will they be like other children their age? Impossible to say, according to their doctors because so few children attached at the head have been successfully separated. Right now, they're way behind other 17-month- olds. They can't sit up on their own. They can't walk or even crawl. They'll be admitted to a Guatemalan hospital for physical and occupational therapy.

DR. JORGE LAZAREFF, NEUROSURGEON: It is possible that they will not reach the milestones of their second year of life as rapidly as any other child would.

COHEN: like everything else they've done, the girls will go home in an unconventional way, in a plane provided by Federal Express.

CHRIS EMBLETON, HEALING THE CHILDREN: And we are very, very grateful, the fact that we can say that we are Fedexing the girls home.

COHEN: A team of seven UCLA doctors, nurses and therapists will accompany the girls to Guatemala and spend time with the medical team there. So far the doctors say they're pleased with the girls' progress. They coo. They respond to people, all the things that doctors and nurses have been hoping for all these months.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: The girls' plane is due to land in Guatemala in the next few hours --Wolf.

BLITZER: You say, Elizabeth, that they're behind, but how much progress do you think they're making right now?

COHEN: Doctors say they've made a great deal of progress. For example, after the surgery, Maria Teresa, who wasn't quite doing as well as her sister, had problems grasping objects. She couldn't grasp a rattle or a toy and now she can. So doctors say when you look at what they've done in the past few months since the surgery, it shows that they've done very well and they hope they continue to do well -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope for best. An amazing story. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks for that good report.

In a moment, a surprise for me when I tuned into late night television Saturday night. We'll show you what's go on.

Also, time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." What do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? Log onto CNN.com/Wolf. You can vote. We'll have the results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Remember we've been asking you this question -- what do you think of Governor Ryan's decision to commute 167 death sentences? Look at this, 57 percent of you so far say that you approve. Forty- three percent disapprove. You can find the exact vote tally and continue to vote, by the way, on our Web site, CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Still to come, a Saturday night surprise for me. You won't want to miss it. I don't think you will. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally, our "Picture of The Day" courtesy of "Saturday Night Live." Cast members opened their show this past weekend with this parody of North Korea's dictator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: "Saturday Night Live" normally seen at this time will be delayed so that we may bring you the following live address from North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Il.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Good evening. Recent provocative and hooliganistic statements by the cowboy government of the United States have villainously slandered our nation and threatened the joyful happiness of the Korean people. The North Korean people will contemptuously reject these accusations and continue to support our wise policy of cheating on all international agreements, then, indignantly denying this when we are caught.

So let me warn the gun-slinging buccaneer, George Bush, and his henchmen, Jimmy Carter and Wolf Blitzer. I am not some pretty chieftain to be easily intimidated. I am extremely...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I am not a henchman for -- never mind. That's all the time we have today. Please join me again tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Don't forget "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" weekdays noon Easter. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Speaking of henchman, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

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