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American Morning
Talk With Jamie Rubin
Aired January 14, 2003 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Time to get back to North Korea this morning. Negotiations in the standoff are shifting to China this morning. Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly has just arrived in Beijing For the next round of talks.
And let's check in with senior White House correspondent John King who joins us with the very latest.
Good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: An offer from China's foreign ministry. China says it would be willing to play host if the United States and North Korea can agree to a dialogue here at the White House this morning. They are welcoming that. They say it shows the resolve the entire international community to bring an end to this standoff other nuclear weapons program.
But the White House also saying the most important role China could play is in the substance of the dispute, Washington hoping Beijing will appeal to the North Korean government to make the commitment to publicly dismantle its nuclear weapons program and allow international inspectors in.
One senior administration official telling us, yes, the Chinese offer to play host is welcome, but the problem is not a channel of communication, the United States can talk to the North Koreans at the United Nations in New York, the official says the problem is North Korea has yet to acknowledge that it must dismantle that program.
So this involvement from Beijing certainly welcome, the White House wishes it would be not so much about where and when talks could take place, but about getting a substantive commitment from North Korea to dismantle the program, and to do so in a way that has very robust verification standards in any agreement.
ZAHN: John, let's to another subject, and that is the result of a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. The president's popularity approval ratings falling for the first time below 60 percent for the first time since 9/11 of 2001. How concerned is administration about this?
KING: It certainly is a concern here at the White House. The president now at an approval rating of 58 percent. He was above 60 percent just a week ago. Remember, there was a high 90 percent for the president after September 11th. In some ways, the White House says, this is to be expected; after September 11th, 2001, the country and the president had a singular focus on the terrorist attacks. Now you have the challenge and controversy over Iraq policy, challenge and controversy over the North Korea policy, a sluggish U.S. economy here and debate over what the president and Congress will do to stimulate that.
This is testing time for the president. They understand that here at the White House. A key moment for the president, politically, not just from policy standpoint, he is beginning second half of the term, State of the Union Address coming; Democrats jumping into the race to run against him. The president's numbers back into what one official here called human political spectrum now -- Paula.
ZAHN: All right, John King, thanks so much. Stay warm.
For more now on latest Democrat diplomacy with North Korea, Jamie Rubin. He was the State Department's assistant secretary for public affairs during the Clinton administration.
He joins us from London.
Good morning, Jamie, Thanks for joining us.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Nice to be with you.
ZAHN: I don't know how much of John King's report you could hear, but he's saying the Bush administration is now welcoming the efforts of the Chinese to get involved in this process, but he went on to say that the administration doesn't view lack of communication as the problem here; they communicate with the North Koreans through the U.N. They feel the problem is that the North Koreans so far have refused to stop this nuclear weapons program. Where does that leave the process?
RUBIN: Well, I think the process is still somewhat stuck. The administration, in a funny way, has thrown out all of its carrots, its incentives, and thrown out all its sticks, its disincentives. They seemed to rule out the use of force, many in the administration seemed to want to avoid provides any concessions or any engagement with North Korea that would bring them energy assistance.
And meanwhile, the North Koreans are doing their best to make this into a crisis. So far, the issue now it seems to me, will boil down to the orchestrated, syncopated steps that will lead to a negotiation. The administration will not want to call it a negotiation. The North Koreans will want to say they brought the Americans to table, but the key issue is the one that John King mentioned, which is whether the North Koreans understand that by breaking the 1994 freeze on their nuclear activities at the Yongbyang (ph) facility, and by secretly trying to go around that agreement with different kind of nuclear program that they have put themselves in a corner that they're going to have to agree up front before any progress can be made to freeze all of their nuclear activities, not just the ones that they froze in 1994.
ZAHN: I want to come back to the '94 framework in a second, but do you think it's fair that you say that the Bush administration has completely ruled out energy concession? Because after all, Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly came out yesterday and hinted that their may be some sort of energy deal possible.
RUBIN: Well, as I said, I think in the administration ruled it out, the moment he said that. Other officials said that he was -- quote -- "off the reservation." That's a pretty strong statement for one administration official to make about the other. And one of the problems here is that the administration is not and has not been for many, many weeks and months now speaking with one voice about North Korea. There is great division in the administration, and it's time that the recognition that this is a crisis force the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, the national security adviser, to sit down and agree on a policy and stick to it, and get their officials to stick to it, because this is no time for mixed signals when we're in the middle of a major nuclear crisis in Asia.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the '94 framework that you were part of negotiating behind the scenes. In an interview in the "Wall Street Journal" this morning, Secretary of State Powell suggests that an agreement was filled with problems and even suggested maybe a new arrangement should be developed with North Korea. Given the current climate at the U.N., what is that possibility?
RUBIN: Well, I think Secretary Powell is on to something. The 1994 agreement was a band-aid. North Korea had threatened to go nuclear, threatened to build nuclear weapons, a lot of them in a matter of months, and the administration I worked for was determined to stop that. In order to stop it, fuel oil was provided and agreement was made that in the future, they would get two new proliferation resistant, meaning less dangerous nuclear reactors, but we always knew that the North Koreans were a tricky country to negotiate with it. there was a lot of verification and safeguards built in, and they were never going to get the really critical components for the reactors until they had convinced everybody that they were nuclear free.
Now as it turned out, they were going behind the backs of the international community, international inspectors, they were secretly developing a different alternative program, and the agreement never gave them what they wanted, because of these safeguards we built in. So we're going to have to find a new arrangement that meets their needs to some extent, but starts by the administration sitting down with the north Koreans and beginning a negotiation, no matter what they try to call it.
ZAHN: Certainly sounds like today the secretary of state is considering that. Jamie Rubin, as always, good to you see. Thanks for your time today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 14, 2003 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Time to get back to North Korea this morning. Negotiations in the standoff are shifting to China this morning. Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly has just arrived in Beijing For the next round of talks.
And let's check in with senior White House correspondent John King who joins us with the very latest.
Good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: An offer from China's foreign ministry. China says it would be willing to play host if the United States and North Korea can agree to a dialogue here at the White House this morning. They are welcoming that. They say it shows the resolve the entire international community to bring an end to this standoff other nuclear weapons program.
But the White House also saying the most important role China could play is in the substance of the dispute, Washington hoping Beijing will appeal to the North Korean government to make the commitment to publicly dismantle its nuclear weapons program and allow international inspectors in.
One senior administration official telling us, yes, the Chinese offer to play host is welcome, but the problem is not a channel of communication, the United States can talk to the North Koreans at the United Nations in New York, the official says the problem is North Korea has yet to acknowledge that it must dismantle that program.
So this involvement from Beijing certainly welcome, the White House wishes it would be not so much about where and when talks could take place, but about getting a substantive commitment from North Korea to dismantle the program, and to do so in a way that has very robust verification standards in any agreement.
ZAHN: John, let's to another subject, and that is the result of a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. The president's popularity approval ratings falling for the first time below 60 percent for the first time since 9/11 of 2001. How concerned is administration about this?
KING: It certainly is a concern here at the White House. The president now at an approval rating of 58 percent. He was above 60 percent just a week ago. Remember, there was a high 90 percent for the president after September 11th. In some ways, the White House says, this is to be expected; after September 11th, 2001, the country and the president had a singular focus on the terrorist attacks. Now you have the challenge and controversy over Iraq policy, challenge and controversy over the North Korea policy, a sluggish U.S. economy here and debate over what the president and Congress will do to stimulate that.
This is testing time for the president. They understand that here at the White House. A key moment for the president, politically, not just from policy standpoint, he is beginning second half of the term, State of the Union Address coming; Democrats jumping into the race to run against him. The president's numbers back into what one official here called human political spectrum now -- Paula.
ZAHN: All right, John King, thanks so much. Stay warm.
For more now on latest Democrat diplomacy with North Korea, Jamie Rubin. He was the State Department's assistant secretary for public affairs during the Clinton administration.
He joins us from London.
Good morning, Jamie, Thanks for joining us.
JAMIE RUBIN, FMR. SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Nice to be with you.
ZAHN: I don't know how much of John King's report you could hear, but he's saying the Bush administration is now welcoming the efforts of the Chinese to get involved in this process, but he went on to say that the administration doesn't view lack of communication as the problem here; they communicate with the North Koreans through the U.N. They feel the problem is that the North Koreans so far have refused to stop this nuclear weapons program. Where does that leave the process?
RUBIN: Well, I think the process is still somewhat stuck. The administration, in a funny way, has thrown out all of its carrots, its incentives, and thrown out all its sticks, its disincentives. They seemed to rule out the use of force, many in the administration seemed to want to avoid provides any concessions or any engagement with North Korea that would bring them energy assistance.
And meanwhile, the North Koreans are doing their best to make this into a crisis. So far, the issue now it seems to me, will boil down to the orchestrated, syncopated steps that will lead to a negotiation. The administration will not want to call it a negotiation. The North Koreans will want to say they brought the Americans to table, but the key issue is the one that John King mentioned, which is whether the North Koreans understand that by breaking the 1994 freeze on their nuclear activities at the Yongbyang (ph) facility, and by secretly trying to go around that agreement with different kind of nuclear program that they have put themselves in a corner that they're going to have to agree up front before any progress can be made to freeze all of their nuclear activities, not just the ones that they froze in 1994.
ZAHN: I want to come back to the '94 framework in a second, but do you think it's fair that you say that the Bush administration has completely ruled out energy concession? Because after all, Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly came out yesterday and hinted that their may be some sort of energy deal possible.
RUBIN: Well, as I said, I think in the administration ruled it out, the moment he said that. Other officials said that he was -- quote -- "off the reservation." That's a pretty strong statement for one administration official to make about the other. And one of the problems here is that the administration is not and has not been for many, many weeks and months now speaking with one voice about North Korea. There is great division in the administration, and it's time that the recognition that this is a crisis force the secretary of defense, the secretary of state, the national security adviser, to sit down and agree on a policy and stick to it, and get their officials to stick to it, because this is no time for mixed signals when we're in the middle of a major nuclear crisis in Asia.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the '94 framework that you were part of negotiating behind the scenes. In an interview in the "Wall Street Journal" this morning, Secretary of State Powell suggests that an agreement was filled with problems and even suggested maybe a new arrangement should be developed with North Korea. Given the current climate at the U.N., what is that possibility?
RUBIN: Well, I think Secretary Powell is on to something. The 1994 agreement was a band-aid. North Korea had threatened to go nuclear, threatened to build nuclear weapons, a lot of them in a matter of months, and the administration I worked for was determined to stop that. In order to stop it, fuel oil was provided and agreement was made that in the future, they would get two new proliferation resistant, meaning less dangerous nuclear reactors, but we always knew that the North Koreans were a tricky country to negotiate with it. there was a lot of verification and safeguards built in, and they were never going to get the really critical components for the reactors until they had convinced everybody that they were nuclear free.
Now as it turned out, they were going behind the backs of the international community, international inspectors, they were secretly developing a different alternative program, and the agreement never gave them what they wanted, because of these safeguards we built in. So we're going to have to find a new arrangement that meets their needs to some extent, but starts by the administration sitting down with the north Koreans and beginning a negotiation, no matter what they try to call it.
ZAHN: Certainly sounds like today the secretary of state is considering that. Jamie Rubin, as always, good to you see. Thanks for your time today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
