Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Interview With Former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia

Aired January 20, 2003 - 07:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration is backing a proposal that would let Saddam Hussein go into exile. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday that exile for Hussein and other members of the Iraqi leadership would be a fair trade to avoid war. But is such a plan even possible? And where would Saddam go?
Richard Murphy is with the Council on Foreign Relations and is a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.

RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning.

COSTELLO: You've just returned from the region, and you heard about that Saudi plan. Give us the details.

MURPHY: The plan is not as was described in the first instance as Saudi is plotting a coup against Saddam. What they're trying to get across to Washington is the way to get what you want without a war is to neutralize the supporters of Saddam Hussein.

COSTELLO: And how are they going to neutralize his supporters?

MURPHY: Their proposal is that a general amnesty be extended presumably as soon as possible. The intended targets would be the forces, such as the Special Republican Guard, who see themselves today condemned to die with Saddam, if it comes to a war.

COSTELLO: So, in essence, they're saying Saddam is going down, you can turn on him, then you can come to a friendly country, live in peace and not be tried for war crimes at all?

MURPHY: Well, I don't think they put much stock or anyone puts much stock in him voluntarily going into exile. The man wants to survive, he's a great survivor, but he wants to survive with all of the power that he's got today, and that doesn't mean going into exile.

COSTELLO: But how can anyone convince the people surrounding Saddam Hussein to turn on him? What methods would be used? And how could anyone communicate with them?

MURPHY: Well, Washington has already started a form of psychological warfare, sending leaflets out, don't obey orders to use weapons of mass destruction, or we're going to get you into court as war criminals when that day comes. So, I think the Saudi idea is go more actively to the whole entourage and say, we want to punish the leadership, and that leadership may be 100, more than 100 individuals, who have been key supporters side by side, who are going to have to be tried and punished, but general amnesty for the rest of you, so don't obey orders.

COSTELLO: Saddam Hussein has been very cagey about protecting himself, though. I mean, do you really see this as a real possibility?

MURPHY: I think it's a possibility. I don't know whether Washington would buy it. I don't know if they'd be ready to extend such an offer. A number of people in Washington want to root out the whole regime from top to bottom, and I don't know that they'd be able to contemplate giving, in effect, a pardon before the fact.

COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Saudi Arabia, why is Saudi Arabia all of a sudden coming up with a plan to avoid war? Is this just a PR move by Saudi Arabia, or are they really serious about this?

MURPHY: No, I think they're serious, because they don't see any gain for themselves or the region from a war. They think the results would be very unpredictable, and they're looking for a way to help the United States as they see to avoid a war, getting what it really wants, which is the weapons of mass destruction and getting rid of the regime.

COSTELLO: We'll see what happens. Richard Murphy, thanks for coming in on AMERICAN MORNING this morning.

MURPHY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired January 20, 2003 - 07:19   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration is backing a proposal that would let Saddam Hussein go into exile. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday that exile for Hussein and other members of the Iraqi leadership would be a fair trade to avoid war. But is such a plan even possible? And where would Saddam go?
Richard Murphy is with the Council on Foreign Relations and is a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.

RICHARD MURPHY, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning.

COSTELLO: You've just returned from the region, and you heard about that Saudi plan. Give us the details.

MURPHY: The plan is not as was described in the first instance as Saudi is plotting a coup against Saddam. What they're trying to get across to Washington is the way to get what you want without a war is to neutralize the supporters of Saddam Hussein.

COSTELLO: And how are they going to neutralize his supporters?

MURPHY: Their proposal is that a general amnesty be extended presumably as soon as possible. The intended targets would be the forces, such as the Special Republican Guard, who see themselves today condemned to die with Saddam, if it comes to a war.

COSTELLO: So, in essence, they're saying Saddam is going down, you can turn on him, then you can come to a friendly country, live in peace and not be tried for war crimes at all?

MURPHY: Well, I don't think they put much stock or anyone puts much stock in him voluntarily going into exile. The man wants to survive, he's a great survivor, but he wants to survive with all of the power that he's got today, and that doesn't mean going into exile.

COSTELLO: But how can anyone convince the people surrounding Saddam Hussein to turn on him? What methods would be used? And how could anyone communicate with them?

MURPHY: Well, Washington has already started a form of psychological warfare, sending leaflets out, don't obey orders to use weapons of mass destruction, or we're going to get you into court as war criminals when that day comes. So, I think the Saudi idea is go more actively to the whole entourage and say, we want to punish the leadership, and that leadership may be 100, more than 100 individuals, who have been key supporters side by side, who are going to have to be tried and punished, but general amnesty for the rest of you, so don't obey orders.

COSTELLO: Saddam Hussein has been very cagey about protecting himself, though. I mean, do you really see this as a real possibility?

MURPHY: I think it's a possibility. I don't know whether Washington would buy it. I don't know if they'd be ready to extend such an offer. A number of people in Washington want to root out the whole regime from top to bottom, and I don't know that they'd be able to contemplate giving, in effect, a pardon before the fact.

COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Saudi Arabia, why is Saudi Arabia all of a sudden coming up with a plan to avoid war? Is this just a PR move by Saudi Arabia, or are they really serious about this?

MURPHY: No, I think they're serious, because they don't see any gain for themselves or the region from a war. They think the results would be very unpredictable, and they're looking for a way to help the United States as they see to avoid a war, getting what it really wants, which is the weapons of mass destruction and getting rid of the regime.

COSTELLO: We'll see what happens. Richard Murphy, thanks for coming in on AMERICAN MORNING this morning.

MURPHY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.