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Former Sex Offender Shunned in Albuquerque; Avalanche in British Columbia Kills Skiers

Aired January 21, 2003 - 20:00   ET


CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung. A convicted sex offender. He's done his time, but would you want him turned over a new leaf on your street?

ANNOUNCER: Marked man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're scared and we want him out.

ANNOUNCER: A convicted sex offender now free from jail with nowhere to call home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a child and I have a wife. Who's protecting them when I'm not home?

ANNOUNCER: Why his return to society has sparked outrage four times over.

A ski trip turns deadly. Seven skiers buried in an avalanche. How could it have happened? Tonight, Alpine tragedy in a tidal wave of snow.

Americans ambushed in Kuwait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are using their weapons behind these and then took their vehicle to escape from this area.

ANNOUNCER: Was it a terrorist attack? Are Americans overseas targets?

And our "Person of the Day," bucking pressure to take a stand.


ANNOUNCER: This in CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening. Tonight, should a man convicted of heinous crimes pay for them the rest of his life even after he's done his time in prison?

David Seibers robbed and raped a woman in 1979. After serving nine years, he tried to lure a 10-year-old girl into his car. Ten more years in prison. Now he's out, but no matter where he goes, he has to register as a sex offender and he's been run out of town after town.

It happened when he went to live with his parents in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Then he fled to Toledo, Ohio. He says police there hand him a bus ticket to Ashland, Kentucky where he lived for two days before heading to Albuquerque. In Albuquerque he was run out of an RV park and is now living outside the city on land provided by an elderly woman where he was beaten up by a protester.

Joining us now is Jack Furlong, a lawyer and family friend who's been advising Seibers. And from Albuquerque, Mayor Martin Chavez. Thank you so much for being with us, both of you.

Mr. Furlong, a psychological profile put out by the prison describes your client as a probable repeat offender. And the Grand Rapids D.A., plus an FBI profile call him dangerous. Aren't these people justified in not wanting this man in their town?

JACK FURLONG, LAWYER, FAMILY FRIEND ADVISING SEIBERS: I'm sorry for not agreeing with your basic premise, Connie. We've asked repeatedly to see any profile information they have and to see the basis upon which they've provided it and they have thus far refused to give it up.

I've represented sex offenders for many, many years. I know the kinds of instruments that are normally used to assess the future dangerousness of offenders and they consist of a series of psychological tests which are both objective and subjective. And Mr. Seibers was never asked to take any of those tests, was never provided with any returns on any of those instrument and we have yet to see a report.

Frankly, I don't think that even one of them exists.

CHUNG: Have you provided any expert opinion to evaluate him?

FURLONG: Well, we have not, but as a general proposition, Mr. Seibers does not have to prove that he's not dangerous. He's served time in prison. He served his complete sentence. He's been released.

We would be more than willing to submit him to psychological evaluation, I'd have to ask him to do that. But I'm pretty confident from knowing him and knowing his background that he would not test nearly as high as has been represented in the media.

CHUNG: Mr. Mayor, this is a man who's served 20 years in prison. Doesn't he has a right to come back and reenter society because he's served his time?

MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ, ALBUQUERQUE, N.M.: Absolutely. The concern I have as mayor, however, is this gentleman comes with a warning from federal law enforcement that he will likely reoffend.

CHUNG: But you just heard from Mr. Furlong that he has not found anything of the kind. Where did you get this information, sir? CHAVEZ: I have yet to run into -- that federal law enforcement authorities and I have yet to run into the attorney for a convicted child offender, abuser who doesn't say that their client is doing OK now.

The other thing that concerns me as mayor is he comes here because his lawyer has said we are a lenient place. He's been run out of three cities before Albuquerque. If I welcome him with open arms then I've just invited every sex offender in the country to come to Albuquerque and that I will not do.

CHUNG: But, in fact, you do have more than 500 sex offenders in Albuquerque. Why are you picking on this one particular man?

CHAVEZ: We have in terms of our current Megan's Law, we have about 550 offenders. I proposed a city ordinance that will give us a better handle on how many we have so that we can give information to the public so we can self-protect.

But this fellow comes with a warning from federal law enforcement that he's likely to reoffend. And he comes here because he thinks that we're a place that will be lenient after he's been tossed out of three other communities. So he's a unique case.

CHUNG: Were you told directly by law enforcement, sir, Mr. Mayor, have you been told directly by law enforcement, someone you trust, that indeed he is dangerous?

CHAVEZ: That advice to me comes from my police department working in tandem with police departments around the country, including federal law enforcement authorities. We also know that he's engaging in conduct while lawful, is consistent with offenders who are likely to reoffend.

CHUNG: Can you give me an idea of what you mean?

CHAVEZ: Well, I've been ask by my police not to be more specific. Very simply, there are different profiles of sex offenders. Some that get out go into halfway houses and rehab programs and through the program you get a sense. Others engage in conduct that we know is lawful, but when it's done by them it tell us they have not rehabilitated themselves.

CHUNG: Mr. Furlong, let me go...


CHAVEZ: ... library's across the street from elementary schools. He's not welcome here.

FURLONG: The public library happens to be located near a school. That's not uncommon. Libraries where people go to look for newspapers for free to look for jobs.

CHUNG: Do you know that's for a fact that's what he's doing there. FURLONG: That's what he told me he did there and unless someone can come to the plate and say that they observed him in the library and saw him using the computer to look at child pornography -- we don't have such evidence and what we've said repeatedly is Mr. Mayor, I realize that law enforcement is asking you to be discreet in your inquiries. But we challenge you to release anything. And if you're concerned about the privacy of Mr. Seibers, please don't be.

If you have a report from federal law enforcement, which I doubt that you, do feel free to release it. If you have a report of suspicious activity by Mr. Seibers, feel free to release it. Don't hide behind some confidentiality ruse and say that there is behavior out there that's consistent with someone who's about to reoffend when in fact, you possess no such data and no such information. this is a guy who simply...

CHAVEZ: I would challenge Mr. Seibers to go back home to Grand Rapids, Michigan...

FURLONG: He tried that.

CHAVEZ: ... and be addressed there. We have ample offenders in Albuquerque we have to address. This gentleman's not from here. He is a present, current threat to the community and the city of Albuquerque. And we're going to monitor him. We're going to make sure that he does not entice little kids into his car. That he does not rape women which is his history.

He is the one that chose his conduct. I recognize he served his time, but it does not mean he's not going to reoffend. And as mayor, I'm going to protect my community.

CHUNG: Mr. Furlong, he certainly didn't expect a cakewalk. He had committed these heinous crime. When he returns to society he didn't expect it to be easy.

FURLONG: Nobody expects it to be easy after 20 years in prison nor does Mr. Seibers.

Here's what happened, not withstanding the mayor's observation of his history. He tried to return to his family's home in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And the Grand Rapids district attorney felt it incumbent upon him to hold press conferences to announce how dangerous he is, and again, without any backing whatsoever without the so-called FBI reports that he claimed to have in his position.

So he left Grand Rapids because he was concerned about the trauma to his family, to his parents who were elderly and to a brother who lives in the community with children. This is not a guy who's been run out of three other towns where he tried to live and they found him to be dangerous. He never made it to three other towns. He left one town because he was concerned about the welfare of other family members.

And when he went to Ohio he was never allowed to even get the before the sheriff put him on a bus to Ashland, Kentucky, which was not his choice. It was from a motel in Ashland that I said to him, There are perhaps a half a dozen states in the West where you can go and get a combination of registration, therapy and at least a live and let live mentality. Obviously, in terms of the mayor of Albuquerque, I miscalculated.

CHUNG: All right. Jack Furlong and Mayor Chavez, thank you so much for being with us.

Seibers has been invited to stay in an Albuquerque home, but some of the neighbors are very upset and they've posed some serious questions. With us now, the man who invited Seibers to stay with him, Scott Goold of Albuquerque. And his neighbor Kali Maestas, a mother of three, herself a victim of rape and sexual abuse. Thank you both for being with us.

Scott, why on earth would you want to invite this man to stay in your home?

SCOTT GOOLD, INVITED SEX OFFENDER TO STAY ON HIS LAND: Well, you know, Connie, I think we all heard what the mayor had to say a few moments ago. I am stunned that in the land like the United States of America with the constitutional revisions that we have that a mayor of a prestigious city like Albuquerque would deny this man the ability to reside in this community.

There are over 550-some sexual offenders in our city at present. I've been here for, say, 15 years approximately. Never, never has a sexual offender been treated in this manner. It is just shocking, shocking that we would create such fear and hatred in this community over this man.

CHUNG: Your neighbors are really quite shocked and stunned. Can you consider the fact that this man is described by the Grand Rapids D.A. as being dangerous?

GOOLD: You know, we have DWI offenders, people we -- and in New Mexico and I'm sure you're aware of this, Connie, we have DWI offenders with 23, 24 offenses in our community. They drive around all of the time. This goes on.

There's dangers everywhere we look in the city. There's a greater chance of the kids in our neighborhood -- we petition for speed humps because of the excessive speed. We've asked for speed humps because of the risk of children to our neighborhood. We can't get that. That's a $1,000 hump that would stop excessive speed. We can't get, that. But Mr. Seavers somehow poses some -- such a great threat that we would deny his constitutional rights, tear up -- you know, tear up the flag and say this man can't come here. He served his time. It's time to let him reintegrate into society.

CHUNG: But in fact, you are suggesting that he come and live with you, but you're sending your wife to live somewhere else. So you are concerned about safety.

GOOLD: Exactly. And I think everybody should be concerned. We're not saying to let this man come in the community and just willey nilley go where he wants. I would stay with Mr. Seavers. We would work on job skills. He has asked for therapy. He has asked to be in social groups. He has asked to be working to be reintegrated. He wants to work. He wants to be a normal human being.

Kali Maestas, you know, I think any of us who are parents would so understand your position. I mean, after all, you just live a few doors down. You're a mom of three children. And I think another parts that none of us really, many of us don't even have the personal experience and that in fact, you were raped and that you were sexually abused.

Can you see any altruistic value in saying to yourself, Well, let's just give this man a chance?


I am a Christian like so many of the other citizens in our neighborhood and I do believe in reform and I do believe that people can change. However, our mayor has said himself as well as the district attorney and many of the officers and the information is out there that he is not reformed and he is volatile and he can do this again at any time and to invite him nicely into our neighborhood amongst our children and the women that live there is absurd to me.

Not only that, we were never approached by Mr. Goold and asked how we felt about that. He just took upon himself to assume that we would all open him -- open our doors to him and that we could help reform this gentleman. It's apparent that it hasn't been able to occur in the past and I'm not willing to take that risk with my children.

I adore my children and my neighbor's children. I have many friends in our community and I'm not willing to subject them to a situation that could do harm.

CHUNG: Kelly, what is this man supposed to do?

MAESTAS: There is no recourse.

CHUNG: What is this man supposed to do?

MAESTAS: You know, I understand where Mr. Goold is coming from and many like himself -- that we do need some type of reform and some place for these people -- that they can go and that they can also feel that they can live out their life after they've served their time.

However, in this given situation, it has been proven that he is not necessarily a reformed...

GOOLD: Nothing's been proven here, Connie. There's no proof and we talked about that earlier. There is absolutely no proof that he will reoffend. I can't tell you he will reoffend. Nobody in the world, no statistical package, no analytical program that you have can say for certain that this man will do something in the future.

It is a risk and as Ms. Maestas said, it is about faith. We are a Christian community and I want to say that again. This is a Christian community, a Christian country. We open doors to people and we help them.

We're not saying to not be concerned. We're saying to watch this man, observe this man, but open your arms, open your heart and allow this man to reintegrate into society and it has to be done.


CHUNG: Scott, if you allow this man to live in your home, your neighbors really can't did anything about it. Are you willing to take the responsibility if he reoffends? Can you live with yourself and can you live with the fact that knowing full well you've provided that opportunity?

GOOLD: Connie, it's a great question.

I don't want really want that responsibility. You know, and this is why I'm glad you're having this discussion today. Why does the justice system, the criminal justice system in this country -- and this is a question for President Bush on down all through our city and local governments -- how did this man -- how is this man released into society when the experts believe he is a danger? How can that be?

We are sitting here -- Ms. Maestas and I are friends. We've known each other for four to five years now. We have a great relationship. I love her kids. They're good people. How come we have to deal with this? This is not our problem. Michigan turns this guy loose and says, By the way, he's dangerous. What are we doing with this problem?

We are citizens. We cannot solve this problem. If this is such a problem, we have offenders all of the time. We need a national solution.

MAESTAS: I say bringing him into our local neighborhoods is not a solution, though we need the attention and this needs to be solved, bringing him into a community with children and women is not a solution.

CHUNG: Kali Maestas and Scott Goold, thank you so much for being with us.

Still ahead, for the third time in four months, someone in Kuwait wanted Americans dead. That story ahead.

ANNOUNCER: Up next: avalanche. Thrillseekers pushing the edge until disaster strikes, when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.


CHUNG: Heavy fog today delayed the search for survivors of yesterday's deadly avalanche in British Columbia. The thundering wall of snow killed at least seven people, three of them Americans, on a remote glacier.

CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley has the story.


FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bad weather kept some of the survivors of the avalanche stranded in a mountain chalet a full day and a night after the avalanche hit. Eleven skiers were buried or partially covered. Three got out of the snow on their own, one was pulled out by the others, but seven skiers died, buried in snow from 4 to 15 feet deep. Cause of death, according to the corner, asphyxiation.

IAN STRATHAM, AMBULANCE CHIEF: It doesn't take long to asphyxiate. You get caught in one of those things, you can't flex a muscle, let alone hardly breathe.

This is the location where the accident took place. This faint line here is the fracture line, roughly probably about 100 feet across and about 300 feet in length.

BUCKLEY: Officials released a photo of the accident area and new details about what they know: that there were three Americans and four Canadians among the victims that there were a group of 24 skiers, who had helicoptered to the ski site at the 7600 foot level near Durand Glacier and that the skiers and their guides were experienced and equipped with safety devices used in backcountry skiing.

CLAIR ISRAELSON, CANADIAN AVALANCHE ASSOCIATION: These people had all of the equipment and, you know, the people guiding the tour were highly knowledgeable and experienced in that area.


BUCKLEY: So the question now, of course, Connie: what exactly went wrong? What triggered that avalanche? Investigators who have been dispatched to this area to investigate that very question, in fact spent the night on the mountain, in that mountain chalet. They should be able to shed some light, at some point, on exactly what went wrong -- Connie.

CHUNG: Frank, what were the conditions on that mountain yesterday?

BUCKLEY: Well, the conditions in terms of avalanche conditions were considered considerable. That's what they actually call this classification. Considerable avalanche risk. But that is in the middle range. You have a low risk, an extreme risk. They say this was a middle risk. A considerable risk. They say that the conditions yesterday were not that different than they often are in this area.

CHUNG: All right. Frank Buckley in Revelstoke, thank you so much.

And joining us now from Salt Lake City, Utah is Bruce Tremper, director of the U.S. Forest Service's Utah Avalanche Center and author of "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain."

Thank you, Bruce, for being with us.


CHUNG: When the classification is considerable risk, doesn't that mean it's unlikely, but possible that an avalanche could occur? So the question is should these people have been out there skiing?

TREMPER: Well, considerable is the middle risk. It means that avalanche, human-triggered avalanches other rather are probable. But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't go out there. There are lots of very safe places to go when it's rated as considerable. For instance, you can stand low angle terrain out from underneath steeper terrain and it's perfectly safe.

CHUNG: So, what causes an avalanche in the first place?

TREMPER: Well, avalanches are a plate of snow, like a magazine sliding off a table. A slab of snow, as we call it, that detaches it, fractures through a week layer and slides off and you're caught out in the middle of the slab and it's like somebody pulls the rug out from underneath you and you are off for the ride of your life. In 90 percent of avalanche accidents it's triggered by the victim or some body in the victim's party.

CHUNG: Actually triggered by the victi?

TREMPER: Yes, it's the only natural hazard that we deal that is usually triggered by the victim. In almost all cases, it's usually triggered by the victim.

CHUNG: That's astounding. So you believe that, for instance in this particular case, it was probably one of the skiers?

TREMPER: Yes, I don't know any of the details of this accident, but most of the time it's triggered by the victim or somebody in the victim's party. It's the weight of the skier itself. Avalanches are not triggered by noise like in the movies. That's just one of those myths that refuses to die, but they're usually triggered by the weight of a skier or a snowmobiler on that slab fracturing the weak layer underneath the slab and it slides off the mountain slide.

CHUNG: We just had a story a couple of days ago about a skier who actually survived under the snow for about 10 minutes. Is that just about the limit for survival?

TREMPER: Yes, that happened right here in Salt Lake City. Extraordinarily lucky accident. A skier by himself, buried four feet deep and there were two other parties right next to him and they just zeroed down on them, used their avalanche rescue beacon and got him dug out of the snow within 10 minutes , and it's lucky because he was blue and they got him out of the snow because you only have about 15 minutes to live under the snow and after that, the numbers just drop off catastrophicly. CHUNG: Bruce, have you ever been caught in an avalanche?

TREMPER: Yes, I've been caught a couple of times. .

CHUNG: You say it so casually. Yeah...

TREMPER: You know, most avalanche professionals, you know, you make a mistake or two through your life and -- yes, 25 years ago, when I thought I was an avalanche expert I found out pretty quickly I was not an avalanche expert and got caught in an avalanche then. It was probably the worst one.

CHUNG: And tips for anyone who's going out skiing, in one of those particularly those dangerous areas?

TREMPER: Well, call the avalanche report before you go out because we can give you lots of good information about where it's safe, where it's not safe, how to travel safely. Carry an avalanche rescue beacon so your partners can dig you out from underneath the snow. Carry shovels and probes so you can do the rescue. And if you're on avalanche terrain, travel one at a time and leave part of your party in a safe spot so that they come in and do the rescue if something goes wrong.

CHUNG: All right. Bruce Tremper. Thank you so much for being with us.

TREMPER: My pleasure.

CHUNG: Still ahead, six passengers go into an empty SUV, seven come out. We'll have the answer to this math problem when we continue.

ANNOUNCER: Next, assassins ambush two Americans in Kuwait. Is the war on terror putting Americans at risk? CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment.


CHUNG: Tonight, U.S. officials are calling it a terrorist attack: The shooting of two U.S. civilian, contract workers for the American military in Kuwait. One of them died in a hail of bullets, the other miraculously survived. The U.S. ambassador to Kuwait said the U.S. has -- quote -- "full confidence that Kuwait will pursue the case vigorously and professionally." It is the third such shooting there in four months.

CNN's Martin Savidge has the details of this latest attack.


MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was an ambush. Kuwaiti officials say that trapped two Americans in a hail of gunfire. At least two dozen bullets punched into the SUV, the pair of civilian U.S. military contractors were riding in north of Kuwait City. 46-year-old Michael Rene Pouliot of San Diego in the passenger seat was killed instantly. The driver wounded, shot at least four times in the leg, shoulder, and chest.

BRIG AL DOSARAL, KUWAIT ARMY: Nobody knows. Must be there was in vehicles, then they are standing, then they are using their weapons, behind these bushes, and then they took their vehicle to escape from this area.

SAVIDGE: Authorities believe the attacker or attackers hid in the small trees lining the highway, choosing this spot because of the intersection and traffic light that would slow potential targets.

Police say the weapon used was an AK-47 and the suspect or suspects then fled in a waiting vehicle. The incident took place just three miles from Camp Doha, the largest U.S. military base in the country. The U.S. ambassador to Kuwait called the shooting a terrorist attack.

As a manhunt began to find the assailants, the Kuwaiti government called the incident shocking and terrible and offered its condolences to the families of the victims and U.S. officials.

It is not the first time Americans have been in the crosshairs here with deadly results. Last October, U.S. marines involved in a training exercise were shot at by two attackers from a pickup truck. One marine died, another was wounded. The gunmen were killed.

Then, in November, two American servicemen were shot and wounded by a Kuwaiti police officer after he stopped the soldiers on a roadway. The suspect was later arrested in Saudi Arabia.

The latest shooting immediately raised security levels in Kuwait around U.S. forces. After receiving word of the attack, these Oklahoma national guard troops raced to take up defensive positions around the army installation they were assigned to protect. U.S. troops can beef up security but as Tuesday's incident demonstrates, no plan is perfect.

Martin Savidge, CNN, Kuwait.


CHUNG: One of the surgeons who operated on the man who was driving, David Caraway, spoke today about how Caraway survived at least six bullets.


DR. MELENKO KIRSIC, AL RAZI HOSPITAL: The bullet which entered in the chest wall on the right side, definitely, he was lucky, because it seems that the angle of entrance was -- was in the way that it passed all the structures. I mean, it neither entered the chest wall, nor the major vessels and nerves, which just were very near in proximity of the upper arm.


CHUNG: The two men both worked for Tapestry Solutions, a U.S. military contractor. Tapestry is just one of many companies that employs hundreds of Americans in military-related and civilian jobs there.

We asked CNN's Charles Feldman to fill us in on the Tapestry workers. And he joins us now from San Diego.

Charles, what can you tell us about these two men?

CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Connie, first of all, of course, a very sad story. And here's the latest that we've got.

Michael Pouliot was 46 years old. He leaves behind a 12-year-old and 14-year-old daughter, as well as a wife, here in the San Diego area. He was the co-founder, in fact, of this company. And the other gentleman who was injured, but we were told is in stable condition and is likely to survive, David Caraway, is 38 years of age. His wife, we are told, is in Europe. And it's not clear whether or not she is even aware of the condition of her husband and what in fact happened in Kuwait.

This is a very small company. It's got about 44 employees scattered throughout the world, only about 28, Connie, here in this building in San Diego. The employers who work here were told not to come in today. Not clear when they will come in. The executives, all of the executives for this company, we are told, are scattered throughout Europe, none of them here in the United States.

But what we are told is that, of course, word of this tragedy spread very quickly very far and wide, and a very sad day for all the people connected with this small company -- Connie.

CHUNG: Charles, do you know if there are any other employees of Tapestry in Kuwait?

FELDMAN: Not clear about that, Connie.

It's a situation that is still, of course, developing, as you can imagine, here. And with all the key executives out of the United States, the people who have been handling the public relations for the company, talking to those of us in the press, are not exactly up to speed on everything involving this company.

But, as far as we know, there are only two people actually in Kuwait. The rest of the executives of this company scattered, as I mentioned, throughout Europe, and the president of the company, in fact, in Germany.

CHUNG: All right. Charles Feldman, I thank you so much.

As I mentioned earlier, this is the third such shooting in four months in Kuwait. So, what is it like for Americans in that country?

Maggie Al-Mughrabi is a native New Yorker who has lived in Kuwait for 13 years. She and her Kuwaiti husband have three children.

And she joins us now from Kuwait City. Thank you, Maggie, for being with us.


CHUNG: Once again, we'll tell the viewers you've been living there for 13 years now. And there have been several incidents since October. Are you fearful now?

AL-MUGHRABI: When the actual three incidents happened before, it was a shock.

And for this to actually happen today, it was a disappointment, not only to me, but I actually think to the entire Kuwaiti community and the entire Kuwaiti country. For the most part, Kuwaiti people are so peaceful. They're very hospitable. And, actually, they embrace the American community into their country. So, yes, definitely, yes, it's a disappointment. And, yes, I am fearful, of course, because I am fearful, because it made a -- it had an impact on me, not only in the sense that actually I'm more aware now.

I actually stopped at the stoplight and I actually looked back to see if anyone was actually looking at me, because they were targeting me because of blond hair or because I was a foreigner. Or could they actually even notice, for that matter? But, yes, it has made an impact. And I'm sad to say that it has made an impact on my life here in -- and my status here in Kuwait.

CHUNG: Are you taking any special precautions, Maggie?

AL-MUGHRABI: Well, as of today, yes, I am taking special precautions. Actually, I was on the base when I actually heard of the incident. And, yes, definitely, I am taking special precautions.

I'm actually looking back and seeing if anyone is following me, which is sad to say, because I was actually -- I think we actually took the freedom for granted that we are protected and that we are safe here and that Kuwaitis are peaceful people and that -- I would not want this to actually reflect on the entire Kuwaiti population, but also to say that, yes, I am taking precautions as of today.

CHUNG: Maggie, I thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate your staying up to this hour.

Right now, Kuwait's next-door neighbor is the focus of much diplomatic squabbling, as we see in tonight's "World in: 60."


(voice-over): President Bush reacted to some U.S. allies' growing opposition to war by reiterating that time is running out for Iraq. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage added that, if other nations were unwilling to act, the U.S. would -- quote -- "make a stand."

Osama bin Laden apparently used a simple trick to avoid capture in Afghanistan in late 2001. According to "The Washington Post," bin Laden gave his satellite telephone, which was being traced, to his bodyguards, who then used it to divert American troops from bin Laden's real position.

In Venezuela, former President Jimmy Carter presented President Hugo Chavez with an electoral blueprint to end a crippling 51-day strike. Chavez said he was open to plans for early elections or a referendum on his presidency.

Mexico asked the International Court of Justice to block the execution of 54 of its citizens who are on death row in the U.S. Mexico says the U.S. failed to inform the prisoners of their consular rights.


ANNOUNCER: Next: a special delivery that gives the term baby on board a whole new meaning.

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will continue in a moment.


CHUNG: Having a baby is tough enough, but Rekasha McLymont, who happens to be a lawyer, not only gave birth to little Winston (ph) before she got to the hospital. She did it in the family SUV on the way there.

She, her husband, Felix, their children, Gabrielle, who's 5, Dominique (ph), who's 3, and Felix III, who is 18 months and not there tonight, were racing to the hospital. And so was their doctor, Robert Dean, just ahead of them.

And they all join us now to tell us exactly how young Winston came into the world.

Rekasha, tell me, is he OK? Is little Winston OK? I know he's still in the hospital and suffering from jaundice.

REKASHA MCLYMONT, GAVE BIRTH IN SUV: Yes. He's doing much better and he hopefully will be coming home tomorrow. He'll do fine.

CHUNG: Good.

All right, let's go to last Thursday. You were having contractions all through the night. And by 8:00 a.m. in the morning, you called your doctor and said they're coming every five minutes. And he said something to you before you and your husband and your three children piled into the SUV. He said something to you. What did he say?

R. MCLYMONT: He said: Just don't have the baby before you get to the hospital.

And the reason he said that was because, when I called him at 8:00 to say that my contractions were now five minutes apart, which is the time that they like you to actually make your way to the hospital, he said: Well, see you at the hospital, thinking I was ready to leave then. But I really wasn't, because I hadn't got dressed and so forth.

So, I said, well, I'll see you in a half-hour. And I think that half-hour made him worry. And that's what he made what I thought was a joke, but it turned out to be really not a joke at all.


CHUNG: So, you're racing in the car. And your contractions are occurring every minute now.

R. MCLYMONT: Well, what happened was, they were five minutes apart. They started at 2:30 in the morning and they were maybe eight or 10 minutes apart. And then, through the night, they got closer together.

And I think, because I was lying down and not really moving around, they didn't speed up very quickly. Once I started getting dressed and getting ready to leave the house, they really started accelerating. And I wasn't even counting them until I got into the car. But then, when I looked at the clock on the dashboard, it said two minutes. It was 8:54. Then it was 8:56.

And I realized, uh-oh, something's going to happen. And then the next one came a minute after the previous one. And the one that came a minute later didn't stop. And that's when I knew I had to push.

CHUNG: All right, so, you paged the doctor. And he's driving in his car to the hospital as well.

Felix, did you think to yourself, uh-oh, I may have to deliver this baby?

FELIX MCLYMONT, FATHER: I certainly did.

CHUNG: Were you prepared in your mind?

F. MCLYMONT: I was getting prepared, definitely. But I was very, very concerned.

CHUNG: All right.

So, Dr. Dean, both of you are heading to the hospital and you realize that it's getting perilously close, because you're on your cell phone and they're on their cell phone. And so you pull off. Both of you pull off. And you hop out of your car. And when you opened the door, what do you see?

DR. ROBERT DEAN, DELIVERED BABY IN SUV: Well, when I opened the side door, Rekasha was right there on the seat in front of me. The other children were in the back or alongside of her. And Rekasha clearly had that look on her face that she was going to have the baby.

When I asked her, she said she couldn't wait anymore. So, we went ahead and prepared to have the delivery right there.

CHUNG: And did it happen within seconds? DEAN: Well, we had to take enough time to get the car ready. Part of what we did was, get the car warmed up, turned the heat up very high, get all the other doors closed.

And Rekasha positioned her feet, one on the door that opened, the other on my left shoulder. And she had the baby very quickly after that, just two pushes, very easy. And we used Felix's coat to dry the baby and put him right up where he belongs, on mom's belly.

CHUNG: Easy for you to say, Dr. Dean.

Rekasha, what were you thinking? Rekasha, were you thinking, oh, my gosh?

R. MCLYMONT: Well, I was actually calling for an ambulance. I was telling my husband, I'm not going to make it. Call an ambulance. I had no idea that Dr. Dean had timed his departure from his house -- he actually lives very close to us -- when I said, it will take me another half-hour to leave.

So, he didn't leave until about another half-hour later. And so I didn't know he was only a mile ahead of us on the road. And I was just thinking, what am I going to do? I have to push. And there's nobody who can help me. So, once I found out that he was actually so close to us and we were going to rendezvous with him, I felt a lot better. But I was still very nervous. And I also wanted my epidural that I realized I was not going to have.

CHUNG: So, when Dr. Dean showed up and opened that SUV door, you really didn't have much time to think anymore. I mean, that was it, wasn't it?

R. MCLYMONT: That was really it.

He checked me really quickly. My water broke at that point. He felt the head. And he asked me if I could wait. And I said no. And then I just -- I pushed. The head came out. I didn't even feel when the head came out. I asked him. And then he said, well, push again. And I said, well, I'm waiting for the next contraction. And that's because, having had other children, it's actually easier to push with the contractions, rather than on your own.

And he said, you can't wait. It's too cold, because it was 22 degrees outside on that Thursday morning. And so I took a deep breath, gave another push. And then the whole baby came out. And he placed him on my stomach. And I was just in total shock that there I was in the car. Now we were driving a little bit more slowly to the hospital. And he called the hospital to alert them that we were coming.

And I was just sitting there with the baby on my stomach, wrapped in my husband's coat, in complete shock that this had just happened.

CHUNG: Gabrielle, what did you see?

GABRIELLE MCLYMONT, DAUGHTER OF REKASHA: I saw the baby's head come out.

CHUNG: You did? Was that exciting?


CHUNG: And so what did you all name the baby?

G. MCLYMONT: Winston.

F. MCLYMONT: Winston.

CHUNG: And you're going to take of -- are you going to help take care of Winston?


CHUNG: Good girl.

Thank you so much, Gabrielle. It's quite a bit experience. Do you want mommy to have any more babies?



CHUNG: I think everybody probably agrees, huh? Is that right, Rekasha?

R. MCLYMONT: Yes. We're definitely -- we knew that we were finished before, because we're blessed to have two girls and two boys. And now we feel God was definitely watching over us on Thursday. And we don't want to take any more chances with more children.


CHUNG: OK. Great. Congratulations, a wonderful story. Thank you very much.

F. MCLYMONT: Thank you very much.

R. MCLYMONT: Thank you very much.

CHUNG: Thank you, Felix.

Thank you, Rekasha.

I'm sorry I didn't talk to you more, Felix. But you don't have anything to do with this, anyway, right?

F. MCLYMONT: That's quite all right.


CHUNG: Thanks, everybody, for being with us.

F. MCLYMONT: She did all the work. CHUNG: Exactly.

R. MCLYMONT: Thank you so much.

F. MCLYMONT: Thank you, Connie. Thank you.

R. MCLYMONT: Bye-bye.

CHUNG: And you know what? I'll bet little Winston's first words are going to be, mommy, are we there yet?

Still ahead: Would you believe a movie star actually getting heavier to get a part?

Stay with us.


CHUNG: It's now 20 days until Laci Peterson is due to deliver her first child.

Peterson was last seen on Christmas Eve. And members of her family are saying they believe someone took her and they want her husband, Scott, to explain the police claim that he had a girlfriend. He allegedly saw the girlfriend as recently as days before his wife's disappearance. Peterson has denied having a girlfriend and denies any involvement with his wife's disappearance.

Today, just two days after the Golden Globes, more awards are on the way, as we see in tonight's "Snapshot."


(voice-over): Directors of "The Hours," "The Two Towers," "Chicago," "The Pianist," and "Gangs of New York" have received nominations for the coveted Director's Guild Award for outstanding directorial achievement. The DGA awards ceremony will be on March 1.

Authorities aren't saying why R&B singer Bobby Brown is expected to spend the rest of his jail sentence in an Atlanta hospital. Brown was expected to be released tomorrow, after being jailed Friday on a 1996 DUI charge. He was hospitalized this morning.

You may wish you had her excuse to get fat. Actress Renee Zellweger tells "The New York Post" she's eager to put on 20 pounds for her role in the sequel to "Bridget Jones's Diary."

Medical researches say one reason other people's waistlines are growing is that food portions are growing. A new study shows portions served at U.S. restaurants and homes increased 60 percent over a 20- year period.

And another fresh study using twins bolsters the gateway theory that early marijuana use can lead to harder drugs.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: our "Person of the Day," bucking pressure to take a stand.

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.


CHUNG: Tonight: Two international leaders making headlines around the world by taking very different stands have become our persons of the day.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair reiterated his political support for a possible U.S.-led war against Iraq. And he's putting his military where his mouth is, dedicating almost a quarter of the British army, 35,000 troops, to the possible conflict, this as a new poll shows fewer than one in three Brits approves of war and only 10 percent say they would approve a war without U.N. backing.

Our other "Person of the Day" is also going against tremendous pressure to take a stand on Iraq. Despite renewed pressure from the U.S., French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin warns that France sees no justification for an invasion, might block a Security Council resolution authorizing force, and is mobilizing other European countries to oppose a U.S. invasion.

Two very different approaches to a very dangerous situation, two men taking stands in the face of tremendous pressure, making them our "Persons of the Day."

And tomorrow: What would you do about a toy that told your kid, "I hate you"? We'll show you the toy and tell you what the unsuspecting parents did about it.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": He starred on "Dynasty" and "All My Children." Now, why is Michael Nader suing ABC?

Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.


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