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CNN CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT
Alleged Adoption Scam Revealed; Avalanche Kills Legendary Snowboarder
Aired January 22, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: Families thought they were adopting a newborn. They were in for a shock.
ANNOUNCER: Adoption scam: This young mother promised to give her baby up for adoption.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANIE ARNOLD, BIOLOGICAL MOTHER: I was scared that I would not find a place to place my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The problem is, she made the same promise to two families. Now she's facing jail for taking the money and keeping the baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD: They probably had a lot of pain over it, but that's like -- if I were to give her up, I would have had a lot of pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: An avalanche takes the life of legendary snowboarder Craig Kelly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Craig loved the mountains. And he wanted to experience all he could out of the mountains. And he lived for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, his family shares their grief and their pride.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: The Max Factor heir convicted of raping three women, but never in court to hear the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER DIAMOND, ATTORNEY FOR ANDREW LUSTER: As a fugitive, he has no right to appeal. He only has a right to appeal if he's here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Lifestyles of the young and really, really rich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUKE WEIL, HEIR TO AUTOTOTE GAMING EMPIRE: I can just say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. I'm from New York. I can buy your family. Piss off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: America's wealthiest offspring caught on film.
And our "Person of the Day" confirmed.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight: a heartbreaking story of couples who wanted so much to be parents and a biological mother now accused of using her unborn child to exploit those couples for money.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Last summer, while 19-year-old Stephanie Arnold, was still pregnant, she decided to give her baby up for adoption.
She placed an ad on an Internet adoption site, Adopster.com (ph), that read: "Hi. My name is Stephanie. I am due with a black/white baby on about August 1, 2002. I need to find a good family for the baby." Stephanie asked for money to cover maternity expenses. And, according to police, several women responded, sending Stephanie a total of up to $5,000 in cash and gifts.
ARNOLD: I did not get this large whopping amount of money. I wasn't out there looking for any and every family to give me money.
CHUNG: This woman, Jaimie Johnson, thought she had been selected for the adoption. Jaimie traveled from Ohio and was in the delivery room on July 12 when the baby girl was born. Two days later, Stephanie decided to keep her baby.
ARNOLD: I can understand they probably had a lot of pain over it, but that's like -- if I were to give her up, I would have had a lot of pain. CHUNG: But police say she didn't just keep the baby. She also kept the money from several different couples.
ARNOLD: I was making sure that, if one decided that they didn't want to work with me, that there was another one there, so I knew that my baby had somewhere to go.
CHUNG: On Monday, Stephanie Arnold pled not guilty to two counts of theft by fraud.
ARNOLD: I'm sorry about what I did. And I do want to repay them. But there's nothing I can do to change what already happened.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Jaimie Johnson joins me now, along with West Allis, Wisconsin, detective Ed Benish.
Thank you both for being with us.
Jaimie, when you first learned about Stephanie and you began talking to her, were your hopes way up there?
JAIMIE JOHNSON, ALLEGED VICTIM OF INTERNET FRAUD: Yes. Yes. We knew and we thought that the baby was going to come home to us. We accepted her into our family.
CHUNG: Did you think -- were there any signs that said to you, maybe this isn't quite working out?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Not one, not one, until the very end.
CHUNG: All right. So, you were in the delivery room when Stephanie had the baby. It was probably a beautiful moment, right? So, at a certain point, what did she say to you regarding whether or not this is going to happen, that you were going to get her baby?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Basically, she elected for us to be the family about a week into the process of talking and e-mailing back and forth and several communications.
CHUNG: Right. But when you -- after the baby was delivered and you were in the hospital with her, you took some time before you called your husband. And when did you call your husband and why?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: I asked her basically before I called. Are you sure you don't want to parent? Here, I want you to hold her. I want you to look at her and I want you to tell me that you want me to be her mom.
CHUNG: And she said?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: She said yes. And she said, go call your husband. He has a lot of diapers to change.
(LAUGHTER) CHUNG: So, you thought, this is it. It's going to happen.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Yes. I did. I wouldn't have made the call if I didn't.
CHUNG: So, your husband comes in. You do have custody of the baby for how long?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: We were at crib-side for about two days. Mom got dismissed from the hospital the first 24 hours. She went home. And then, after she went home empty-handed, basically, she sent my social worker in to tell us that she was going to parent.
CHUNG: She wanted the baby back.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Absolutely. The baby was still in the hospital.
CHUNG: You must have been devastated, Jaimie.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Cried. Cried. We spent a lot of time.
It's a pavilion. It was the women's pavilion. And we spent a lot of time sitting on the curbside just sobbing, not knowing where to go or what to do or how to move. And after about an hour of that, we gathered ourselves and our stuff and I excused myself from my husband. And I placed a call to Stephanie and basically congratulated her on her baby girl, just wished her all the luck and told her to keep in touch, because we grew to love her and her child.
CHUNG: You are so generous. You were that close. But the amazing thing is, after you went home...
JAIMIE JOHNSON: She called.
CHUNG: And what did she want?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Again, she wanted us to parent the child. It happened. We got three calls. And on the fourth call, meaning three different calls every other month. And on the fourth call, she just basically said, you need to come get her. I need to sign this. We need to make it final. So, we agreed to meet somewhere.
CHUNG: She's was taking you on this roller-coaster ride. Unbelievable.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Right. Right. Every day, we didn't know what the status was going to be. And we went to West Allis then.
CHUNG: You went again.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: And got to spend 24 hours with the baby. She let me keep the baby overnight in a hotel.
CHUNG: How was the baby?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Very sick. Very sick, labored breathing, thrush, a yeast infection on the bottom, cracking and bleeding, no medical care, no prescriptions. The prescriptions she had, she didn't have them filled. They were months old.
CHUNG: You knew this was just a terrible situation. So what did you do?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Basically, we met the next day and I asked why the child hadn't been cared for, why the child didn't receive medical care. She basically explained to me that she had no money.
I said, fine. I said, but you're on state subsidy. I don't understand that. But here's the money. Take the child and get care, of which she did. But, at that time when we left, we had made an agreement for her to go in and stay in special -- her and her son get out of the stressful environment. Go stay in a hotel. I'll be back the next day.
You can do then whatever you want. You can stay with me. You can go. You can do whatever you want until we get our date in court, because you can't cross state lines with a child.
CHUNG: So, you were unable -- even if you wanted to, you were unable
(CROSSTALK)
JAIMIE JOHNSON: I would have taken the baby in a heartbeat, but it's illegal. So, we made the choice to go gather our stuff. And then I was going to come back the next day and spend the duration of the two weeks with the child in Wisconsin until we went to court.
CHUNG: And, ultimately...
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Went home. Never heard from her again.
CHUNG: You went to police eventually.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Yes. I spoke to her mom and she told never to call again after I had done several hundred things for this family. And it struck me odd. But I got off.
And part of -- when you go through adoption, some people go through the different rooms and they host chats between adoptee, adoption, different people. And you talk about different things. And I began to vent, because I felt very mad. And just the unknown was killing me. And then came the floods of people that she basically had offered the same thing to.
CHUNG: All right.
Detective Benish, that's where you come in.
Did you discover that there were others she had allegedly scammed?
DET. ED BENISH, WEST ALLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes. I talked with Jaimie several times. And through our conversations, she forwarded some e-mails to me which indicated that there were several other families that Stephanie had conversations with at the same time, which signaled a flag to me.
CHUNG: And, in your investigations, how many do you suspect or allege that Stephanie had scammed?
BENISH: Well, I guess she received goods from four families, whether it be maternity clothes or moneys. Two other families refused to give her anything.
CHUNG: Do you know how much money she, actually, ultimately got?
BENISH: It's hard to say exactly, because some of the amounts varied. But I would say it was probably over $3,000, probably $2,500 in cash.
CHUNG: And what has she been charged with?
BENISH: She was charged with two counts for theft by fraud.
CHUNG: What could she face if indeed she's found guilty?
BENISH: The total exposure would be 18 months in jail. And I believe the fine amount could be $20,000.
CHUNG: Jaimie, do you think that Stephanie should be punished?
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Yes. Yes. I don't know -- I'm not the law. I don't know the severity of everything.
It's apparent that she's not caring for the child. That is my first and most concern. But I believe there's a lot of unbroken bridges between adoption and adoptive parents. And I guess I just want to see some good come out of it.
CHUNG: OK. And you're still trying.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Yes.
CHUNG: Good. Good luck. You know I'm a big supporter of adoption.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: Yes, I do.
CHUNG: I wish you luck. I know it's going to happen for you. It will be good.
JAIMIE JOHNSON: OK.
CHUNG: OK. Thank you.
Detective Benish, I thank you as will.
BENISH: I wish Jaimie the best of luck. CHUNG: OK. Thank you.
We should note that we tried to reach Stephanie Arnold, but were unable to do so.
Now, it sounds as if the adoption process has a lot of potential pitfalls, that's with good reason. Couples wanting to adopt sometimes let their desire blind them to warning signs.
Adam Pertman is the executive director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute and author of "Adoption nation." And he joins us tonight from Boston.
Mr. Pertman, we thank you so much for being with us.
Are there regulations that can prevent something like this from happening, because, honestly, I don't know if Jaimie could have done anything differently.
ADAM PERTMAN, AUTHOR, "ADOPTION NATION": She certainly did seem to have her heart in the right place and seemed to proceed in a really reasonable way.
I'm not sure that this sort of example is one that the law or process or procedure can prevent, except for perhaps in one place. And that is that no agency, no professional -- I'm not talking about doing something expensive here -- but no professional was in the process from early on. Birth mothers have a very difficult time making this decision. Pregnant women have a difficult time. And sometimes they do go on a roller coaster. And sometimes they do change their minds for perfectly sane and reasonable reasons. And counseling helps them through that.
(CROSSTALK)
CHUNG: It helps the biological mother.
PERTMAN: It helps both sides.
I think the counseling helps everyone. It helps certainly the biological parents know what they're going to encounter. I don't know what the ups and downs of her decision-making led this woman to do in the end, maybe make some very bad decisions. Certainly, it helps the adoptive parents cope with the repercussions if something does fall through or even look for the red flags that perhaps she did not see, Ms. Johnson did not see in this case.
I think having professional assistance when we're about to change our lives can be very, very important.
CHUNG: Mr. Pertman, how often does something like this happen?
PERTMAN: Well, it's rare.
The truth is that scams, if this was one, from the birth mother's vantage, happen very rarely. And it's only because we hear so little about birth mothers and know so little about them, because of adoption's history of secrecy, that we think that maybe it could be often. The more common scams, when they do occur, are by practitioners, practitioners who take advantage of both birth mothers and adoptive parents.
CHUNG: You mean the facilitators.
PERTMAN: I'm not saying that happens often. Sure, facilitators, attorneys, agencies. It happens. Thank God it doesn't happen very often, but it certainly does.
CHUNG: Adam Pertman, I thank you so much for being with us.
And still ahead: What do you think a millionaire facing life in prison would do if he had the chance?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: He followed his dream on to some of the greatest peaks in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just an amazing guy. Just a really great soul. Super fun guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The tragic death of a snowboarding legend -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight: a survivor's story. Survivors of Monday's deadly avalanche have been flown from the Canadian glacier where it occurred. The details are emerging of exactly what happened.
And, as CNN's Frank Buckley reports, we're learning more about those who did not survive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The avalanche claimed the lives of seven skiers. But John Siebert was among the survivors. He says the first sign of trouble was the sound of the snow breaking free of the mountain.
JOHN SIEBERT, AVALANCHE SURVIVOR: I heard the crack. And once I felt my skis go out from under me, I knew exactly what was going on.
This is what an avalanche can look like. Authorities estimate the one Siebert and his fellow skiers were caught up in measured 150 feet across by 300 feet long. Siebert says he rode it down on his back, looking up at the sky, fighting to stay alive all of the way down. SIEBERT: In the summer, I do a lot of kayaking. And it was like swimming down the roughest river I've ever been in trying to keep my head above the water. And it worked.
BUCKLEY: While some of the 13 skiers caught in the slide were completely buried, Siebert found himself sitting upright, the sky still visible.
SIEBERT: I was sitting almost like I am right now, but my right leg was bent up under my left leg. The snow came right up to about my chest. And this hand was like this.
QUESTION: And your face was out.
SIEBERT: My face was out of the snow. My whole head was out of the snow. And the snow was packed against the back of my head.
BUCKLEY: The veteran backcountry skier was eventually able to dig himself out of the snow, with some help from one of the rescuers. Others could not be saved, among them, 36-year-old Craig Kelly, who helped to popularize the board sport of snowboarding. Kelly was a four-time world and three-time U.S. snowboarding champion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Craig loved the mountains. And he wanted to experience all he could out of the mountains and learn more about it. And he lived for it.
BUCKLEY (on camera): Investigators will now attempt to determine what caused the accident. The ski tour operator, Ruedi Beglinger, who owns cell Selkirk Mountain Experience, has a reputation as a safe operator. And all of the skiers involved in the incident are believed to have been properly equipped with safety gear.
(voice-over): Siebert says it was nobody's fault.
SIEBERT: I feel that this tragic accident was a fluke of nature. There was nothing in my mind that was a warning sign that we should not have been skiing that slope on that day. The tragic loss of our friends will haunt us for the rest of our lives.
BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, Revelstoke, British Columbia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have declared the deaths purely accidental, with no one at fault.
Joining me now from Redmond, Washington, is Craig Kelly's mother, Janet Hansen.
Janet, thank you so much for being with us.
Janet, when was the last time you talked to your son?
JANET HANSEN, MOTHER OF CRAIG KELLY: On Friday evening. He was on his way up to the mountain. And he called me on The cell phone as he was going down the road.
And he had told me that he had just completed a certification for avalanche preparedness. And he was really excited about it, because it was another step in knowing more about the job that he was embarking on. And he loved learning.
CHUNG: Did he say anything special to you?
HANSEN: We talked about being able to get together soon, because I missed him and Savina and little Olivia. And then we lost contact, which he told me would be happening because of the cell phone range. And I was going to call him back, but he called me back first. And he said: Well, I don't think we're going to be able to talk any longer, because it is going to be three hours without any cell phone connection. And he just said: I love you, mom. Goodbye.
And I said: I love you, Craig. Goodbye. And that was the last -- our last words together.
CHUNG: I know he was your oldest son.
HANSEN: Yes.
CHUNG: Tell us -- remember him for us. What type of person was he?
HANSEN: He was a very loving person. I don't think there is anyone that could ever say anything bad about him. He loved the mountains. He loved snowboarding. He loved his family. He was kind and generous. Just any positive adjective you could say would fit Craig to a tee.
CHUNG: Janet, we in the public remember him as being this extraordinary legend. In fact, I was reading so much about him. And the words used were best snowboarder of all time, responsible for defining the sport, godfather of free riding. This is how the public remembers him. He was really quite amazing, wasn't he? He had such a passion.
HANSEN: Very much so, yes.
CHUNG: Can you describe his passion?
HANSEN: In everything that he did.
I think he's always had the passion in everything that he's done, from his BMX bike racing when he was a teenager and being so focused on everything and taking everything so seriously and doing his best into the snowboarding and everything he's done. He's just had a zest for life and positive of life and just wanted to live it to the fullest. And he did that every single day.
CHUNG: Janet, you mentioned his wife and his little daughter. And I'm wondering if you or they ever worried about these trips that he would take. HANSEN: Well, Olivia I'm sure didn't, because she's not quite 2 yet. And I'm sure Savina did. We all have. But it's just a part of his life and none of us have ever tried to dwell on it. And I'm sure Craig hasn't.
And we knew he was careful. He knew the mountains. He's been on them thousands of times. He's dealt with avalanches, very well trained and takes all the precautions. So, you let your worries be at a minimal and never think that such a thing would happen.
CHUNG: You were actually told that he was part of this group. At that moment, did you fear the worst?
HANSEN: At first, I definitely was glued to the television and stopped immediately. It caught my attention.
But I didn't think it was Craig, because I knew he was so well prepared and such a calm, collected person that I thought, he knows what to do. He'll be very calm and he'll make sure he has an air pocket. And he'll breathe correctly and his beeper will be on and they will get him.
But I didn't think that was really happening. I just was praying that Craig, get off that hill, get off that mountain, in case something else happens. So, I stayed very positive, but glued to the television the whole night. But I truly did not think it could be him. I still can't believe it's him.
CHUNG: I know that you have other children. And, in fact, Craig had taught, was it his youngest brother how to snowboard. And it's like having Michael Jordan teach a kid how to play basketball.
Janet, our deep regrets. Janet Hansen, thank you for being with us tonight.
On the war front today, President Bush renewed his claim that Iraqi president Saddam Hussein has and is still concealing weapons of mass destruction, violating U.N. resolutions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He wants to play a game. For the sake of peace, we must not let him play a game. And so the resolutions of the Security Council will be enforced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: As we see in tonight's "World in: 60," however, Mr. Bush's plans for dealing with Iraq militarily don't seem to be winning over some U.S. allies on the Security Council.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): France and Germany have joined forces to prevent a war against Iraq. French President Jacques Chirac says any decision on war ultimately resides with the U.N. Security Council. The U.N. Security Council may also intervene in the North Korean nuclear crisis, possibly within days, according to a top U.S. envoy. North Korea rejected this move, saying U.N. sanctions would be tantamount to war.
At least 23 people were killed when a powerful earthquake struck western Mexico. Officials said the death toll could rise as rescue teams search the rubble.
Three miners were killed and three injured in a coal mine explosion in northern West Virginia. A buildup of methane gas may have caused the blast.
Thousands of activists on both sides of the abortion debate rallied in Washington, D.C. Today is the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Next: A fight between two senior citizens ends in horror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN JENNE, BROWARD COUNTY SHERIFF: Everybody has to take responsibility for their actions. And someone who happens to be 68 ought not to be given special treatment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A closer look at elder rage -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Sometimes, even when police know exactly who did what, it's not always easy to determine how justice should be done. This is such a case, because the man on trial and the man he's accused of killing are both senior citizens. Does that change things? Should it?
CNN's Susan Candiotti has details of this very rare case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Irving Rosenberg at his daughter's wedding last May. By all accounts, the 74-year-old retired New York bread delivery man and insurance salesman was enjoying retirement in Florida with his wife of 48 years.
CINDY SCHACHTER, DAUGHTER OF IRVING ROSENBERG: Caring, loving, fun-loving.
CANDIOTTI: Another retiree: 68-year-old Seymour Schuss. The former pharmaceutical salesman is legally blind, but still enjoys playing golf and going to the movies. ALLYSON SCHUSS, DAUGHTER OF SEYMOUR SCHUSS: My father never, ever was in trouble.
CANDIOTTI: But Schuss got in big trouble with Rosenberg last November at a discount movie theater popular with seniors. Rosenberg, a complete stranger, was in line buying tickets for his wife and three other couples.
MYRA ROSENBERG, WIDOW OF IRVING ROSENBERG: The woman behind us says: Why don't you hurry up? You're holding up the line.
See, he did turn around and say: Why don't you shut up?
CANDIOTTI: The woman's husband was Schuss, who, police say, grabbed Rosenberg, shoved him, then slugged him in the chin.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen, there were two old men (INAUDIBLE) outside a movie theater. And one punched the other. And he fell on the floor. And I don't know how he's doing, but he hit his head.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ROSENBERG: He sat up. He grabbed his head and he said: Oh, my head. Oh, my head. And he began to throw up.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): After Irving Rosenberg fell and smacked his head on the pavement, he was rushed to the hospital. At first, the man who allegedly hit him, Seymour Schuss, was charged with battery. But about two weeks later, when Rosenberg died, prosecutors upped the charges to manslaughter. Now Seymour Schuss, a man allegedly involved in an incidents that began with buying movie tickets, faces up to 15 years in prison if found guilty.
(voice-over): Sheriff Ken Jenne says elder-on-elder crime is rare, but no less excusable.
JENNE: Everybody has to take responsibility for their actions. And someone who happens to be 68 ought not to be given special treatment.
CANDIOTTI: Through his attorney, Schuss declined an interview.
DAVID T. SALE, ATTORNEY FOR SEYMOUR SCHUSS: He didn't really know what was going on and he just went over to protect his wife.
CANDIOTTI: Schuss' daughter.
SCHUSS: We feel horrible, terrible, remorseful that this tragedy took place and that two families are really being destroyed with this.
CANDIOTTI: But for Rosenberg's daughter and her mother, now a widow, remorse is not enough.
SCHACHTER: He committed a crime. My father's dead. He's alive. You take another human's life, you do jail time. You have to be punished for your actions.
CANDIOTTI: The sheriff suggests there is a broader issue. People are just too angry.
JENNE: We've got to get rage under control.
CANDIOTTI: Schuss has pleaded not guilty and, pending trial, is free on $10,000 bond.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Joining me now are Sheriff Ken Jenne also David Sale, the defendant's attorney, and Cindy Schachter daughter of Irving Rosenberg, the man who died.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Cindy, I know this must be so difficult for you. How are you making sense of your father's death?
SCHACHTER: Actually, the family is not making sense of the death. It's very hard for us to conceive of him not being with us anymore.
CHUNG: The defendant's lawyer says it was just an accident.
SCHACHTER: I don't believe it was just an accident. The gentleman -- Mr. Schuss was held back and he broke free and he continued to attack my father. Accidents don't happen that way.
CHUNG: Was your father a healthy man?
SCHACHTER: Yes, he was very healthy. He bowled three times a week. He swam. He lifted weights. He was always on the go.
CHUNG: Mr. Sale, did your client intend to kill this man?
SALE: Absolutely not, Connie. And I don't believe I ever stated that this was an accident. It's really too early in the proceedings to comment on any of the evidence. And I don't think it would be appropriate to comment on any of the evidence.
I think, though, it is important to know that Mr. Schuss is extremely remorseful about this entire situation. He never intended for anything like this to happen. He's a nonviolent man. He's also a father and a grandfather and has never been in trouble a day in his life. And two families have really been just terribly impacted by this terrible tragedy.
CHUNG: Has he expressed remorse to the family?
SALE: Well, through me, he has on a number of occasions. I've advised him that, because the legal process has begun, that it would be inappropriate for him to reach out to the family. But he desperately wants them to know how sorry he is that this entire situation occurred and just what a terrible tragedy it is for two families.
CHUNG: Sheriff Jenne, what are the witnesses telling you? Because you've investigated this case. What do they say happened?
JENNE: The witnesses say that there was a struggle, that Mr. Schuss came at him, grabbed his -- grabbed him, then hit him. And then, even when Mr. Rosenberg was on the ground, was attempting to hit him again when he was pulled off by other people who were in the area.
CHUNG: And what did the autopsy show? Because this has been ruled a homicide.
JENNE: Yes. This was ruled a homicide by the medical examiner and that it was a blunt-force injury to the back of the skull.
CHUNG: Mr. Sale, your client is legally blind. Are you going to use that in this case?
SALE: It's entirely possible that will be an element of the defense.
He is legally blind. He has a macular degeneration. He doesn't drive. He can see with very large glasses. And you said in your piece that he was going to the moves and playing golf. If he sits in the front row and he wears special binoculars, he can partially see the movie screen. He hasn't played golf since this incident occurred. I believe he's just too broken up about the entire situation.
But when he was playing, someone would point him right to his ball, would point him to the hole, and would really have to help him with every aspect of playing golf prior to this terrible tragedy.
CHUNG: Cindy, I know that, if this man is found guilty, he could face 15 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Do you think that this is what he deserves?
SCHACHTER: I think that's what he deserves. That's what the letter of the law allows. And I don't argue with that, but I think he should serve the maximum time.
CHUNG: Does it mean anything to you, as some people might bring in the fact that he's 68 years old?
SCHACHTER: It makes no difference to me at all. My father was a senior citizen also. He was a grandfather. He was a father. He lost his life. At least he is enjoying time with his family. My father is in a cemetery.
CHUNG: All right, thank you so much, Cindy Schachter, and, Sheriff Jenne, David Sale, as well. Thank you all for being with us.
And still ahead: another trial. But this time, the defendant didn't stick around for the verdict. The heir to the Max Factor fortune is now a convicted rapist and a fugitive from the law.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Once, he was simply a 39-year-old surf bum who lived off a trust fund. Now he's a millionaire rapist on the run.
A jury last night convicted Andrew Luster, great grandson of cosmetic pioneer Max Factor, of drugging women and then raping them on videotape. But Luster didn't hear the verdict. He skipped bail almost three weeks ago. And the judge said he believes Luster's disappearance was well-planned, well-financed and helped by some other party. Luster is now facing life in prison if he's caught.
Pat LaLama of "Celebrity Justice" has been following this trial. And she joins us from Los Angeles. And we have our own legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, here in New York.
Pat, this probably wasn't a surprise at all. Does anyone have any idea where the man is?
PAT LALAMA, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": It's interesting.
I was talking to law enforcement people today. And I would say to them, oh, I heard he was here. And they would, at this point, laugh, because everyone has an idea about where he could be. The fact is, he has the resources to do anything and go anywhere. As you said, the courts believe he was assisted and financed. He could have gone from left to right. And, at this point, they are telling me -- and I believe them -- that they just can't track him.
CHUNG: Well, Jeffrey, the judge said himself that he, the judge, made a big mistake.
TOOBIN: He sure did.
The judge lowered bail for him during the trial and lowered the restrictions on him on when he could leave his home. He was sort of under a kind of house arrest, but the judge relaxed those restrictions. It's just an outrageous, outrageous thing that he did that. And the facts speak for themselves.
CHUNG: Pat, I know that Luster's mother was attending the trial every day. Has she been there since he disappeared?
LALAMA: Yes. Her name is Elizabeth.
And just one thing I just would like to offer up, for people who don't know. Andrew Luster is not a blood relative of Max Factor. In fact, he is the adopted great-grandson. His mother, Elizabeth, adopted him. So, in a since, we call him an heir, and he is. But there is no blood tie there.
His mother did show up at the trial every single day, until his disappearance. And then she has not been anywhere to be found. And there have been no comments. In the very beginning, she helped him with bail. She stood behind him. She sat in the courtroom every day and would shake her head vigorously no when anything negative was said about her son. But then after his disappearance, she disappeared.
Now, does that mean necessarily that she helped him and wants to stay out of the limelight? You can't come up with that conclusion at this point. Perhaps she just doesn't know what to say, and so she's not there. She wasn't there and neither were the three victims of Andrew Luster for the verdict.
CHUNG: Jeffrey, I would imagine that his attorney is going to appeal, right? Does he have any leg to stand on?
TOOBIN: Not a bit. He can't appeal while he's on the lam. He can be sentenced.
It's an interesting question about whether the prosecutor wants to sentence him. If he comes back, he doesn't to get a do-over with him present there. The trial goes forward. He stands convicted. The prosecutor is going to have to make a judgment whether he wants the sentencing to go forward or wait until he's caught again. But he gets no rights until he shows up to claim them.
CHUNG: Why would the prosecutor not go ahead and proceed?
TOOBIN: Well, because they might think that you could compound the sentence. You could even appall the judge even more if you were able to say what he did while he was on the lam. This guy is going to get a big sentence anyway. But, either way, the prosecutor has all the cards at this point, except a body.
CHUNG: Pat, one last question for you. The women who testified, did all of them testify?
LALAMA: Well, yes.
And the thing is that you have to remember about these women -- and I'm sure Jeffrey could speak to this more eloquently -- but there's a blur when you're talking about consent. People like to say they were bar girls and he met them on the beach and they had these histories. And the fact is that maybe some juries do or can't let go of any moral judgments or prejudgments they have about this.
But the fact is that, if they were unaware and if they were surreptitiously fed any kind of drug, that's when the consent ends. And so I think that's what the jury was trying to say. And I think it's probably been painful for these three women, no matter what their -- quote -- "histories" were.
CHUNG: All right.
TOOBIN: With a defendant on the lam and videotape of the crime, this was a -- as close to an open-and-shut case as I can imagine.
CHUNG: All right, Jeffrey, thank you so much.
Pat LaLama, thank you as well. Always good to see you.
LALAMA: Nice to see you.
CHUNG: Still ahead: Lisa Marie Presley. Will the public mark her new project return to sender?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: a blue-blooded brood of billionaires on camera talking about their money and growing up rich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing worse when you see these jackets with these lapels that go like this, are low-riding. Clinton wears this kind of thing. Have you seen? He looks like a restaurant owner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: If there is one thing that takes some of the sting out of not being rich, it's seeing those who are rich caught in, well, let's say, unflattering circumstances.
"Born Rich," a new documentary that debuted at Sundance, looks at the newest generation of the super rich, heirs to such wealthy families as Trump, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt and even Bloomberg. Yes, the movie profiles a daughter of New York's Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is also a billionaire media mogul, talking about her hardships.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BORN RICH")
GEORGINA BLOOMBERG, HEIR TO BLOOMBERG MEDIA FORTUNE: Having the last name Bloomberg obviously doesn't help me in any way. And it's really a disadvantage, because it kind of takes away from the image that I'm trying to portray. People hear the name and immediately have an idea in their heads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Presumably, the name is not a disadvantage when it shows up on the bank account. And that's also true for filmmaker Jamie Johnson, as in Johnson & Johnson.
He joins us now from Park City, Utah.
Jamie, thank you for being with us.
JAMIE JOHNSON, FILMMAKER: Well, thank you for having me on the show.
CHUNG: Can you tell me, why did you make this film and why do you think some of your friends cooperated with you?
JAMIE JOHNSON: Well, I wanted to make this documentary because I was 20. I was in school in New York City. And I knew I was going to turn 21 in a year and inherit a great deal of money. And I knew there were a lot of things I had to figure out before that happened.
I really wanted to know what I was going to do with my life. I was in a situation where I knew I'd never have to work. And I'd known of a lot of people who had been in the same situation that I was. They were young. They were healthy. They were going to inherit money. They seemed to have everything going for them. But yet the lives they lived didn't seem to be that happy and productive and, in some cases, even tragic. And I really didn't want that to happen to me.
CHUNG: Jamie, I have to tell you, people all across America are probably throwing their shoes at the TV hearing you say that you wanted to figure out what you were going to do.
But, listen, we're going to show a clip first, all right of Ivanka Trump, the daughter of Donald Trump. And he is, of course, a developer.
Let's listen to this, all right?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BORN RICH")
IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: Not a bad view to wake up to.
We used to have a deck set up up here. And I used to have friends over. And we'd have lunches up here. And I used to always just come up here with my dad and walk around. And he'd point out where a new building of his was going up.
And now the difference is, when I was younger, we could point out -- or he could point out a few of his buildings to me. And now there are a lot more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Jamie, I know that Ivanka came to the premiere at Sundance. Was she happy with how she was portrayed?
JAMIE JOHNSON: I think Ivanka thinks it's an interesting project. And I really wouldn't want to speak for her.
But, all along, she said that she supported the idea. And she knew me and she trusted me and wanted to participate in the film.
CHUNG: Luke Weil is another person who is in the film. I want to show a clip of him, because he actually filed a lawsuit to prevent you from showing the film.
Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BORN RICH")
LUKE WEIL, HEIR TO AUTOTOTE GAMING EMPIRE: You ever had an encounter that rubs you the wrong way? It's whoever pisses you off. And I'm up at boarding school. This kid is like from some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) town in Connecticut. I don't know. I can just say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. I'm from New York. I can buy your family. Piss off. And this is petty. And this is weak. And this is very underhanded. But it's so easy, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: My gosh, Jaime. Do you think Luke knew what he was getting into, when he said OK for sitting down with you?
JAMIE JOHNSON: I definitely know Luke knew what he was getting into. I think he really thoroughly understood the project and where I was going with it.
And I think that he changed his mind after starting to be involved in and doing some interviews. I think he took a lot of heat from his community about being involved in the project and participating. And I think a lot of his friends told him he shouldn't do it, it was a terrible why, and asked him why he was doing it.
CHUNG: So, in the end, Jamie, what did you learn from these people?
JAMIE JOHNSON: Well, I thought I would get some specific answers about what I wanted to do with my life. And I think it was a little naive to look at it that way.
But what I really learned is that I understand my position a lot better. I understand how wealth affects my life. I understand that it gives me great opportunities and great choices that most people aren't fortunate enough to have. And I'm extremely grateful for that every single day.
CHUNG: Tell me that you want to make your life worthwhile and that you are going to work for a living.
JAMIE JOHNSON: I absolutely am.
And I think that this film is interesting because, in America, we think we have a meritocracy, where everything you have, you earn. And this film challenges that notion. Kids are born rich. It's entirely unfair. And nobody knows why that is and why that happens. And when you see this film, parts of it are difficult to sit through. Parts of it make you squirm in your chair.
CHUNG: Because?
JAMIE JOHNSON: That is because it confronts the issue of this inherent unfairness in our culture. And I thank that that's why money isn't talked about. That's why people aren't really willing to recognize it. CHUNG: Now, some of these people are your friends. And, in fact, Luke was one of your friends until now. Did you find many of them to be totally obnoxious?
JAMIE JOHNSON: Well, I want everybody -- I directed the film and I don't want to color people's perceptions about the kids or what they're going to bring to it before they see it. I'd really like everyone to see it and form their own opinions and make their own judgments themselves.
CHUNG: But you didn't mean -- did you mean to ridicule them?
JAMIE JOHNSON: No. I think I made a documentary film.
And I really don't think this is an expose. I think it's more a document of our culture. And it really examines what it's like to be born rich. It offers a glimpse into a world that people have not seen before. And, fortunately, because of my situation and because of my background, I had access to this world and people were willing to talk to me about it.
And I was, fortunately, able to see this creative project realized, which a lot of people don't have the benefit to do who want to make films and who want to do this kind of thing.
CHUNG: All right, thank you, Jamie Johnson.
And it turns out tonight's "Snapshot" starts with news about the rich and famous daughter of a king, the King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Elvis' daughter is reportedly putting out a record of her own. "The New York Post" says Lisa Marie Presley's long- awaited debut CD, "To Whom it May Concern," will come out April 8.
Ready for son of "Friends"? Now that the 2003-2004 season of the popular sitcom "Friends" will be the last, "Daily Variety" reports that NBC is mulling over a possible spin-off focusing on Matt LeBlanc's character, Joey Tribbiani.
After a court hearing this morning, a frustrated Florida judge says he's no closer to knowing if there really is a cloned baby girl or where she is. The court took testimony by phone from a Clonaid V.P. during a guardianship hearing.
R&B singer R. Kelly now faces child porn charges in Miami, as well as in Chicago. Police arrested him today on a 12-count warrant stemming from a search of his Davenport, Florida, home last June.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: our "Person of the Day" confirmed.
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns in a moment
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tonight, a man who carries an enormous weight on his shoulders is our "Person of the Day."
Tom Ridge today won Senate confirmation to head the new Homeland Security Department, the Cabinet-level agency that officially comes into being Friday, but won't be up and running for months. The agency will fold in 170,000 U.S. employees from the Secret Service, Coast Guard, Customs, INS and more, its job, to protect America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: We still have, as I said before, a long journey to undertake. And, every day, that is our mission, to make sure that, when we turn off the lights and leave the office that night, that we are safer because of the work we have done in the Department of Homeland Security than when we flip them on when we enter the office in the morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Now, some in the Senate cautioned Ridge not to trample on American values while protecting the American people. It is the profound hope of millions that Tom Ridge succeeds at both. And that makes him today's "Person of the Day."
Tomorrow: They went on reality TV and lost. We'll meet the losing bachelors who failed to win the hand of "The Bachelorette."
Plus: America prepares for a new kind of war, 21st century tank warfare in the middle of a major city, Baghdad. What will it be like? We'll have an inside look inside a modern American tank.
Thank you so much for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.
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