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American Morning
On Monday, Hans Blix Will Deliver Much Anticipated Report
Aired January 24, 2003 - 08:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On Monday, U.N. weapons inspection chief Hans Blix will deliver his much anticipated report on Iraq to the Security Council. Now in advance of that briefing, Blix met behind closed doors yesterday with leaders of his U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, otherwise known as UNMOVIC. Now, the UNMOVIC commissioners have a head, and he happens to be Ronald Cleminson.
And he joins us now.
It's an honor to have you with us today.
RONALD CLEMINSON, UNMOVIC COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
ZAHN: I think we should say up front that you're very limited about what you can tell us about these meetings yesterday. But can you tell us what the purpose of the meeting was?
CLEMINSON: Well, the Commission is set up by the Security Council to provide advice to the executive chairman. And so we meet on usually a quarterly basis and talk to him and give him advice as best we can, since the 16 commissioners come from around the world.
ZAHN: Reuters is reporting this morning that there was a debate at yesterday's meeting regarding whether it is the job of the inspectors to find a smoking gun. Can you confirm that for us today?
CLEMINSON: I wouldn't call it a debate. There is always a discussion and the members of the Commission, as I say, who are appointed in their own personal capacity and not representative of countries, have a lively discussion and most certainly yesterday there was. It was the sort of thing that Dr. Blix encourages.
ZAHN: You are a former inspector yourself. What is the appropriate role of the inspectors? Because yesterday Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suggested it is up to the Iraqis to bring this stuff forward, that it's not even feasible for inspectors to fan out across that country and be able to dig into everything, he says, that's been hidden.
CLEMINSON: That may be his opinion and I think he's entitled to it. But the role of the inspectors are laid out by the United Nations. It's laid out, indeed, in the resolutions of the Security Council, and those are the things we follow.
ZAHN: It is reported in the "Washington Post" this morning that U.S. and U.N. officials say that inspectors have not been able to question any Iraqi scientists in private and that non-cooperation will be the centerpiece of what Hans Blix will report to the U.N.
Is that true?
CLEMINSON: I'm not sure what the centerpiece will be because, of course, Dr. Blix says it's not on paper yet, it's in his head. But I think from the standpoint of the operations, the operation has gone extremely well, beyond expectations. And I think that it will continue to do that in a very professional, very technical way.
ZAHN: How can you say the operation has gone extremely well if there are numerous reports today that none of the inspectors has been able to sit down with these Iraqi scientists in private?
CLEMINSON: It depends on what you call interviews and what you call in private. They're averaging about seven inspections per day. They often go to an installation, to an establishment, talk to the director general of the establishment, talk to his people. It seems to me that that is a sort of an interview in and of itself. Go down on the shop floor, talk to people who are working on things, watch static tests and such.
So in the one-on-one interview there may be a problem in that individuals may not want to do that, for a number of reasons. We have to remember, these are family people. These are smart, intelligent individuals and they just may feel it's not in their interests.
ZAHN: Well, not only not in their interests, but defense, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz took it a step further yesterday. And I don't want to paraphrase what he said because we've got it right here. He basically said they'd get killed if they talked to inspectors.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Today we know from multiple sources that Saddam has ordered that any scientist who cooperates during interviews will be killed, as well as their family. Furthermore, we know that scientists are being tutored on what to say to the U.N. inspectors and that Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as scientists to be interviewed by the inspectors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So do you agree that's one of the reasons these Iraqi scientists don't want to sit -- no matter what constitutes a meeting, wants to sit down in a one-on-one situation with an inspector?
CLEMINSON: Well, he has sources we don't have. But I don't think there is any source in the United Nations that would say that at the moment. But it may well be. It is, after all, a totalitarian state.
ZAHN: Just a final thought on how you think this will all play out. CLEMINSON: Well, I think Dr. Blix will give what he's called a review, an update, which was called for by the Security Council. And I think, I hope things will continue and that the ideas which may be in Washington and here in New York can be brought together to achieve what President Bush says he would like, a peaceful settlement to this without war. Those are his words, not mine.
ZAHN: Is it your view that we've already seen a material breach here, particularly when it comes to the issue of interviewing Iraqi scientists?
CLEMINSON: No, I don't think so. I don't think there's a material breach. I think it is something, this, after all, is being played out as a human drama and I think that people like Dr. Blix, who has an extraordinary amount of experience in this, should do, as he is doing, following the Security Council's recommendations, and he's making a report to them on that on Monday. We'll see what happens there.
ZAHN: Well, we know you don't do many interviews at all.
We appreciate your spending a little time with us this morning.
CLEMINSON: My pleasure, indeed.
ZAHN: Ronald Cleminson, the commissioner of UNMOVIC.
CLEMINSON: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 24, 2003 - 08:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On Monday, U.N. weapons inspection chief Hans Blix will deliver his much anticipated report on Iraq to the Security Council. Now in advance of that briefing, Blix met behind closed doors yesterday with leaders of his U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, otherwise known as UNMOVIC. Now, the UNMOVIC commissioners have a head, and he happens to be Ronald Cleminson.
And he joins us now.
It's an honor to have you with us today.
RONALD CLEMINSON, UNMOVIC COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
ZAHN: I think we should say up front that you're very limited about what you can tell us about these meetings yesterday. But can you tell us what the purpose of the meeting was?
CLEMINSON: Well, the Commission is set up by the Security Council to provide advice to the executive chairman. And so we meet on usually a quarterly basis and talk to him and give him advice as best we can, since the 16 commissioners come from around the world.
ZAHN: Reuters is reporting this morning that there was a debate at yesterday's meeting regarding whether it is the job of the inspectors to find a smoking gun. Can you confirm that for us today?
CLEMINSON: I wouldn't call it a debate. There is always a discussion and the members of the Commission, as I say, who are appointed in their own personal capacity and not representative of countries, have a lively discussion and most certainly yesterday there was. It was the sort of thing that Dr. Blix encourages.
ZAHN: You are a former inspector yourself. What is the appropriate role of the inspectors? Because yesterday Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suggested it is up to the Iraqis to bring this stuff forward, that it's not even feasible for inspectors to fan out across that country and be able to dig into everything, he says, that's been hidden.
CLEMINSON: That may be his opinion and I think he's entitled to it. But the role of the inspectors are laid out by the United Nations. It's laid out, indeed, in the resolutions of the Security Council, and those are the things we follow.
ZAHN: It is reported in the "Washington Post" this morning that U.S. and U.N. officials say that inspectors have not been able to question any Iraqi scientists in private and that non-cooperation will be the centerpiece of what Hans Blix will report to the U.N.
Is that true?
CLEMINSON: I'm not sure what the centerpiece will be because, of course, Dr. Blix says it's not on paper yet, it's in his head. But I think from the standpoint of the operations, the operation has gone extremely well, beyond expectations. And I think that it will continue to do that in a very professional, very technical way.
ZAHN: How can you say the operation has gone extremely well if there are numerous reports today that none of the inspectors has been able to sit down with these Iraqi scientists in private?
CLEMINSON: It depends on what you call interviews and what you call in private. They're averaging about seven inspections per day. They often go to an installation, to an establishment, talk to the director general of the establishment, talk to his people. It seems to me that that is a sort of an interview in and of itself. Go down on the shop floor, talk to people who are working on things, watch static tests and such.
So in the one-on-one interview there may be a problem in that individuals may not want to do that, for a number of reasons. We have to remember, these are family people. These are smart, intelligent individuals and they just may feel it's not in their interests.
ZAHN: Well, not only not in their interests, but defense, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz took it a step further yesterday. And I don't want to paraphrase what he said because we've got it right here. He basically said they'd get killed if they talked to inspectors.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Today we know from multiple sources that Saddam has ordered that any scientist who cooperates during interviews will be killed, as well as their family. Furthermore, we know that scientists are being tutored on what to say to the U.N. inspectors and that Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as scientists to be interviewed by the inspectors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So do you agree that's one of the reasons these Iraqi scientists don't want to sit -- no matter what constitutes a meeting, wants to sit down in a one-on-one situation with an inspector?
CLEMINSON: Well, he has sources we don't have. But I don't think there is any source in the United Nations that would say that at the moment. But it may well be. It is, after all, a totalitarian state.
ZAHN: Just a final thought on how you think this will all play out. CLEMINSON: Well, I think Dr. Blix will give what he's called a review, an update, which was called for by the Security Council. And I think, I hope things will continue and that the ideas which may be in Washington and here in New York can be brought together to achieve what President Bush says he would like, a peaceful settlement to this without war. Those are his words, not mine.
ZAHN: Is it your view that we've already seen a material breach here, particularly when it comes to the issue of interviewing Iraqi scientists?
CLEMINSON: No, I don't think so. I don't think there's a material breach. I think it is something, this, after all, is being played out as a human drama and I think that people like Dr. Blix, who has an extraordinary amount of experience in this, should do, as he is doing, following the Security Council's recommendations, and he's making a report to them on that on Monday. We'll see what happens there.
ZAHN: Well, we know you don't do many interviews at all.
We appreciate your spending a little time with us this morning.
CLEMINSON: My pleasure, indeed.
ZAHN: Ronald Cleminson, the commissioner of UNMOVIC.
CLEMINSON: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
